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Boatcop
08-06-2007, 04:51 PM
The topic of drinking and boating has come up again, fueled by the death of an 8 year old girl in a boating collision that MAY have had alcohol as a contributing factor.
The camps have squared off, and verbal jabs have been thrown about. I'm not about to jump in with something as boring as facts, as I've really become tired of typing the same things over and over again.
Statistics have been alluded to and used, often skewed, to make the writer's point. Unless you include all the information, statistics are just numbers.
Rather than just throwing figures about, I've decided to put out as much information on the subect as I can, in one place. So you all can read a little more than just, 35% this and 19% that. Once you've read the articles and absorbed all the information, you can be better able to understand the situation, instead of relying on the emotions of the moment. Some of them are a few years old, but the information is still topical.
So for your reading pleasure:
http://powerboat.about.com/od/safety_education/a/boating_BUI.htm
http://www.boatus.com/foundation/findings/new_alcohol_boating.htm
http://www.madd.org/docs/BUI_Overview.doc
http://www.amica.com/aboutUs/magazine/summer_2000/boating_alcohol.htm
http://www.jhsph.edu/PublicHealthNews/Press_Releases/PR_2001/boating.html
http://www.1800duilaws.com/article/boating_under_influence_alcohol_drugs.asp
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu/safety_info/alcohol/drinking_boating.cfm
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/Alcohol/ba.pdf
http://www.uscgboating.org/waypoints/jul07/art1_influence.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2001/B/200112474.html
http://boatingsailing.suite101.com/article.cfm/alcohol_use_and_boating
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/286/23/2974?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Foss&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://www.americanboating.org/alcohol_in_deadly_accidents.asp
http://www.bunganutlake.org/alcohol.htm
http://www.boatingsafety.com/alcohol.htm

Wake Havasu
08-06-2007, 04:54 PM
Now you have gone and done it!
"Water on the Water and Beer on the Pier".
I am astounded that one can have an open container in a moving boat.
How do you prove the drink in the cup holder with in arms reach is not the drivers?
PS I saw you guys ( po po ) at the dam on Thursday at around 6:30pmish !
Thanks for keeping me and mine safe.

Tom Brown
08-06-2007, 05:02 PM
Alan,
I'm curious about the 100% enforcement program at Lake Pleasant. I hadn't heard of it until Froggystyle referenced it earlier.
It sounds like around 1% of boaters boat, drink, and head through a checkstop they knew would be there before they left their house in the morning. Wild.

The Doctor
08-06-2007, 05:02 PM
By all means enjoy the lake. Bring your cooler or bring your boat but not both please. We love our families and are tired of unsafe conditions at the lake. It's a vehicle, for heaven's sake. Why is that so hard to understand? It's a shame to think we need more deaths to convince those who refuse to believe it will happen to them.
Just a thought:
I purchased all my boats with the money I never spent on booze of any kind?
Good trade for me and my family!

HighRoller
08-06-2007, 05:05 PM
Thanks for takin' the time, BC. I'm as guilty as anyone else of indulging and driving more than a few times but all the threads about people dying uselessly on the water has made me take a look at what's really at stake. Besides the loss of life, everyone should just stop and think what it would feel like to have boating ruined for you forever! Nobody who was involved in that incident will probably ever be able to hardly look at a boat again without throwing up.
I for one do not want to be the one that ruined boating for myself, my family, my friends and their families forever. So I guess from now on it will be Gatorade until we're back at the dock. Luckily I am still in boat bitch mode so I go to town on the Jell-O shooters and beer. But I'll be sure to keep a sober driver behind the wheel. I challenge all the rest of you to do the same.

Wake Havasu
08-06-2007, 05:07 PM
Eight-year-old dies after boats collide
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2007/08/06/news/news03.txt
By DAVID BELL
Sunday, August 5, 2007 9:55 PM MST
An 8-year-old Temecula, Calif. girl died in a two-boat collision on the Colorado River Saturday.
“The collision occurred about one-half mile south of the Interstate 40 Bridge, at about 5:50 p.m.,” said San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Cindy Beavers.
The unidentified girl suffered severe injuries to the head as well as a compound fracture of the left arm. She was transported to Valley View Hospital in Ft. Mohave where she was pronounced dead at 8:30 p.m.
Four others were injured in the crash. A 13-year-old girl from Yucaipa, Calif., suffered injuries to her mouth, and a person identified as Michael Brandon, 47, sustained injuries to the head and chest. They were transported to Valley View Hospital before being transferred to Las Vegas area hospitals.
“It did not sound that their injuries were life threatening,” Beavers said.
Beavers said the deceased girl was riding on a “deck styled boat” and two others aboard suffered minor injuries as a result of the crash. They were both were transported to Colorado River Medical Center in Needles. The nature of their injuries was not disclosed.
Brandon and the 13-year-old girl were riding on a boat Beavers described as a V-hull with an open bow. Two others - a woman and child - were sitting in the bow of the second boat at the time of the crash and were both ejected into the water. However, neither the woman nor child suffered any injuries from the accident.
Cause of the collision is under investigation. Alcohol is believed to be a factor.
--
Sad thing is few REALLY Care.
They consider boating drunk a God given right.
Post a Tubing or Wake boarding thread and "they" all put there beers down to jump on the thread.

ol guy
08-06-2007, 05:57 PM
With all do repect and appreciation for what you guys go thru, A couple of questions. Back in the day when I learned all about boating and safety it seemed to me there were a few laws regarding boat speed on any inland waterway and wake damage to any other vessel be it moored anchored or docked the vessel creating damage is liable for said damage? I will bet here comes alot of thoughts before hearing from someone that actually knows. A response would be greatly appreciated.

Boatcop
08-06-2007, 06:18 PM
With all do repect and appreciation for what you guys go thru, A couple of questions. Back in the day when I learned all about boating and safety it seemed to me there were a few laws regarding boat speed on any inland waterway and wake damage to any other vessel be it moored anchored or docked the vessel creating damage is liable for said damage? I will bet here comes alot of thoughts before hearing from someone that actually knows. A response would be greatly appreciated.
The laws back in the day still apply now. Every boater is responsible for their wake and any damage that the wake may cause.
Arizona:
5-343. Speed restrictions; excessive wake
No person shall operate a watercraft in excess of the posted limit or at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event, speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person or other watercraft, swamping other watercraft or otherwise endangering the lives or property of other persons.
California:
655. (a) No person shall use any vessel or manipulate water skis,
an aquaplane, or a similar device in a reckless or negligent manner
so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person. The
department shall adopt regulations for the use of vessels, water
skis, aquaplanes, or similar devices in a manner that will minimize
the danger to life, limb, or property consistent with reasonable use
of the equipment for the purpose for which it was designed.
and
661. (a) Every owner of an undocumented vessel numbered under this
code is liable and responsible for the death of or injury to person
or property resulting from negligence in the operation of such
vessel, in the business of the owner or otherwise, by any person
using and operating the same with the permission, express or implied,
of the owner, and the negligence of such person shall be imputed to
the owner for all purposes of civil damage. It shall be presumed
that such vessel is being operated with the knowledge and consent of
the owner if at the time of the injury, death or damage it is under
the control of his or her spouse, father, mother, brother, sister,
son, daughter, or other immediate member of the owner's family.
Nothing contained in this chapter shall be construed to relieve any
person from any liability which he would otherwise have, but nothing
contained in this chapter shall be construed to authorize or permit
any recovery in excess of injury or damage actually incurred.

PaPaG
08-06-2007, 06:25 PM
The topic of drinking and boating has come up again, fueled by the death of an 8 year old girl in a boating collision that MAY have had alcohol as a contributing factor.
The camps have squared off, and verbal jabs have been thrown about. I'm not about to jump in with something as boring as facts, as I've really become tired of typing the same things over and over again.
Statistics have been alluded to and used, often skewed, to make the writer's point. Unless you include all the information, statistics are just numbers.
Rather than just throwing figures about, I've decided to put out as much information on the subect as I can, in one place. So you all can read a little more than just, 35% this and 19% that. Once you've read the articles and absorbed all the information, you can be better able to understand the situation, instead of relying on the emotions of the moment. Some of them are a few years old, but the information is still topical.
So for your reading pleasure:
http://powerboat.about.com/od/safety_education/a/boating_BUI.htm
http://www.boatus.com/foundation/findings/new_alcohol_boating.htm
http://www.madd.org/docs/BUI_Overview.doc
http://www.amica.com/aboutUs/magazine/summer_2000/boating_alcohol.htm
http://www.jhsph.edu/PublicHealthNews/Press_Releases/PR_2001/boating.html
http://www.1800duilaws.com/article/boating_under_influence_alcohol_drugs.asp
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu/safety_info/alcohol/drinking_boating.cfm
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/Alcohol/ba.pdf
http://www.uscgboating.org/waypoints/jul07/art1_influence.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2001/B/200112474.html
http://boatingsailing.suite101.com/article.cfm/alcohol_use_and_boating
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/286/23/2974?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Foss&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://www.americanboating.org/alcohol_in_deadly_accidents.asp
http://www.bunganutlake.org/alcohol.htm
http://www.boatingsafety.com/alcohol.htm
Good Job BC, sorry this little girl had to pay the ultimate price for doing nothing but being a little girl enjoying the river with her family.. I would love to see all the idiots get thrown in jail when drinking and driving..my dad was almost killed by a drunk driver about 7 years ago and to this day I can't forget the picture of his body laying in ICU and waiting for results as I stood over him praying he that he would be OK wondering what I will tell my family when I have to make the call.. Thank GOD he survived but others don't...Sorry to say I know people that drink and drive while boating..These idiots (yes I called them idiots) are lucky they have not killed anyone yet but their number may come up someday and I don't want to be around when it does....:( Again, BC Thanks for your effort.....

kcvega
08-06-2007, 06:29 PM
I have followed the one drink per hour rule a few times this year along with some water in between. Is this acceptable to anyone?

vee-driven
08-06-2007, 06:31 PM
I hear zero tolerence out on the water and does that mean no alcohol whatsoever for the driver? If you are under .08 in Ca or .10 in az wich one applys and where, or do they just go with the .10 since the river and lakes are on the border? I don't drink much during the day but would like to know the law and what they mean by no tolerance and wich legal limit applys .08 and or .10. thanks

RiverDave
08-06-2007, 06:35 PM
MoneyPitt, what is so god damn hard for people to act responsibly and not get wasted and drive? What is so damn hard for people to stay to the right? (Which incidentally is sounding like what may have caused this accident)
Why is it so hard for people to understand basic navigational rules and to take a safe boating class? (Kilrtoy's thread above?)
Enough is ENOUGH!!
People come on here and condemn every damn thing under the sun! DRinking and Driving is BADD!! (Pun Intended) Well that's juts Horse Shit..
Getting Wasted and Driving? Hell yes that's a bad idea, never been a good idea. Turning the helm over to someone with ZERO experience, but happens to be sober? That's in DIRECT competition with being WASTED as far as one of the dumbest things you can do out on the water.
We have a new generation of people though.. People with too much money, no sense of accountabillity, and god knows no brains.. The sense of accountibillity being the main thing.
Teak Surfing.... People are basically sticking their face into the exhuast of a boat and inhaling it. They die, their families sue.. Now we get pretty little stickers, and legislation is coming (you wait..) What happened to Darwinism? Aren't stupid people supposed to weed themselves out of the food chain? Nope not in today's society, instead we have to make a law to protect stupid people, from being stupid!! WTF kinda sense does that make?
I am all for getting DRUNKS off the water.. Hell, if someone kills someone and there BAC is extreme DUI, let em swing by a tree for all I care.. No need for a trial, the nearest one on shore and a ski rope will suit em just fine.
But to say that ANYBODY that has a drink and drives is crazy? Well it's crazy becuase people have come to accept the idea that people do NOT have to be responsible for themselves. That groups like MADD, can lobby for ridiculous legislation and with catch phrases like "Don't drink and Drive" can win..
People think that they are doing a just cause.. They are fanatics, and they attract other fanatics.. and ya know what? It hasn't even been 3 or 4 hours and...
Now you have gone and done it!
"Water on the Water and Beer on the Pier".
I am astounded that one can have an open container in a moving boat.
How do you prove the drink in the cup holder with in arms reach is not the drivers?
PS I saw you guys ( po po ) at the dam on Thursday at around 6:30pmish !
Thanks for keeping me and mine safe.
The suggestions and ideas are already rolling..
This mentallity and others like it will not only kill performance boating (which mark my words is already on the way out) but over time you will single handedly kill every single last freedom that we have, which basically includes just about every single idea that this country was founded on..
Sad days indeed.
RD

MBlaster
08-06-2007, 06:37 PM
Whats wrong with a little moderation?
When we pack up the food and drinks for the day the Mrs will put in 2 Lites for me with all the waters and gatorades and juices for the kids.
Its not necessary to get hammered, and those couple cold ones will last all day and get split up among all the other non alchoholic beverages and food.
I try to always be aware of the boat traffic around me, and it pays have the air horn handy.

RiverDave
08-06-2007, 06:43 PM
Let me ask a perfectly logical question in this thread..
How many of you have taken a boating safety course, and actually know the rules of navigation? (not counting you Boatcop :D)
Don't you think that might be just as important as not drinking? Do you think that if both people stayed to the right (oncoming) that any of this would've happened to begin with?
Do you think if Kilrtoy (whom's as sober as a church mouse) knew half as much as he thinks he knows about running a boat that his thread would've been posted?
Why not have some SELF RESPONSIBILLITY, and SELF ACCOUNTABILLITY and go learn something before you just randomly condemn every single incident out on the water to OUI? I hate to keep bringing up Kilr's deal, but since it's fresh and everyone knows about.. He posted that thread dead ass convinced he was in the right. I've thought about it 6 ways to sunday and have come to the conclusion that he musta done something terribly wrong to end up like he did.. And sadly enough so did the other 2 drivers as well. Which makes it 3 for 3 performance boaters that made the most basic of basic mistakes in one INCIDENT!
What does booze have to do with any of that? Answer nothing.. Yet if one was drunk and went the correct way and ther others collided into his ass though.. You can bet the armchair quarterbacks and the "BADD" Nazi's would be all over his ass, saying he oughta swing from a tree..
RD

RiverDave
08-06-2007, 06:46 PM
Whats wrong with a little moderation?
When we pack up the food and drinks for the day the Mrs will put in 2 Lites for me with all the waters and gatorades and juices for the kids.
Its not necessary to get hammered, and those couple cold ones will last all day and get split up among all the other non alchoholic beverages and food.
I try to always be aware of the boat traffic around me, and it pays have the air horn handy.
Exactly...
RD

Phat Matt
08-06-2007, 06:49 PM
I am all for getting DRUNKS off the water.. Hell, if someone kills someone and there BAC is extreme DUI, let me swing by a tree for all I care.. No need for a trial, the nearest one on shore and a ski rope will suit em just fine.
RD
You might want to edit this one RD. :) Or you are being very noble. :D

RiverDave
08-06-2007, 06:51 PM
You might want to edit this one RD. :) Or you are being very noble. :D
Typing too fast... LOL
RD

ol guy
08-06-2007, 06:54 PM
Hey boat cop, really and I do mean REALLY appriciate the reply. just one old DUMB-$$s trying to kick it down a notch and make it safe. FYI old boat racer that loves the river and the lake, and won't go anywhere near the north channel because you can sell a boat but you can't sell brains. Can you spell testosterone. And for the input I'm in full favor of a boating class required to own a boat.

Boatcop
08-06-2007, 06:56 PM
MoneyPitt, what is so god damn hard for people to act responsibly and not get wasted and drive? What is so damn hard for people to stay to the right? (Which incidentally is sounding like what may have caused this accident)
Why is it so hard for people to understand basic navigational rules and to take a safe boating class? (Kilrtoy's thread above?)
Enough is ENOUGH!!
People come on here and condemn every damn thing under the sun! DRinking and Driving is BADD!! (Pun Intended) Well that's juts Horse Shit..
Getting Wasted and Driving? Hell yes that's a bad idea, never been a good idea. Turning the helm over to someone with ZERO experience, but happens to be sober? That's in DIRECT competition with being WASTED as far as one of the dumbest things you can do out on the water.
We have a new generation of people though.. People with too much money, no sense of accountabillity, and god knows no brains.. The sense of accountibillity being the main thing.
Teak Surfing.... People are basically sticking their face into the exhuast of a boat and inhaling it. They die, their families sue.. Now we get pretty little stickers, and legislation is coming (you wait..) What happened to Darwinism? Aren't stupid people supposed to weed themselves out of the food chain? Nope not in today's society, instead we have to make a law to protect stupid people, from being stupid!! WTF kinda sense does that make?
I am all for getting DRUNKS off the water.. Hell, if someone kills someone and there BAC is extreme DUI, let me swing by a tree for all I care.. No need for a trial, the nearest one on shore and a ski rope will suit em just fine.
But to say that ANYBODY that has a drink and drives is crazy? Well it's crazy becuase people have come to accept the idea that people do NOT have to be responsible for themselves. That groups like MADD, can lobby for ridiculous legislation and with catch phrases like "Don't drink and Drive" can win..
People think that they are doing a just cause.. They are fanatics, and they attract other fanatics.. and ya know what? It hasn't even been 3 or 4 hours and...
The suggestions and ideas are already rolling..
This mentallity and others like it will not only kill performance boating (which mark my words is already on the way out) but over time you will single handedly kill every single last freedom that we have, which basically includes just about every single idea that this country was founded on..
Sad days indeed.
RD
Dave,
I didn't put this thread here to start an opinion war. Especially one between you and someone who hasn't even posted here.
I put this up so people can see the results of different studies by different entities, in one place, and make their own decisions.
Every one of those studies show that a person's ability to safely operate a boat is impaired to some extent with even low amounts of alcohol. That doesn't mean I, or anyone else, wants to lower the limit any more than it is now. All it's meant to do is give everyone some information that they may not be aware of, so they can become educated on the subect and maybe think twice about getting behind the controls after drinking.
Nothing more, nothing less.

HighRoller
08-06-2007, 06:56 PM
Good points, guys. When I was young and the cops started posting navigation rules for boats and placing buoys in the center of the lake I was shocked to learn that boats had the same navigation rules as cars more or less. Until then I thought it was just a free for all, at least that's how people drove.
Nowadays I think people are in the same mindset as I was before that education. They drive on your side of the lake or river coming at you and are surprised when people are angry. They drive in circles the wrong way and cut backwards across traffic to get back to their campsite instead of going further downlake and coming back. Navigation is definitely something the authorities need to educate and enforce upon.

Phat Matt
08-06-2007, 06:57 PM
Typing too fast... LOL
RD
I may have just saved your life. lol. ;)

vee-driven
08-06-2007, 07:08 PM
I think RD is onto something, most everyone on the water is drinking and when sh!t happens, oh he was drunk, blame it on the alcohol. Everyones tolerances are different you have the cheap dates that are out of control on one or two drinks and may still be under the legal limit and then you have the seasoned pros that are more than capable of handeling any situation after drinking all day [and buy that i mean beer not a cosco bottle of jack daniels]. Maybe the person who wrecked is just a fukn retard with no experience and got what he had coming and now has to live with being an idiot. When i go out to the bars to drink with friends i dont drive home on the wrong side of the road or blast through red light at top speed, once in awhile i may be over the legal limit and should take a taxi but i know how to drive been doin it for years and the rules of the road and if you were behind me you wouldnt know if i had 5 pitchers or just got off work.

sanger rat
08-06-2007, 07:47 PM
I'm with RD on this one. I don't drink much but if I'm going to hang out at the beach all day I like to take a couple with me. But when I'm doing speed runs on the river their is zero beers on the boat.

PaPaG
08-06-2007, 07:51 PM
To Mr. Riverdave,
I know i've only been on this site for a few years, not as long as you, but i've noticed over the years that this subject of drinking & driving a boat really tweeks your balls. I guess i'd like to know if you've had some kind of bad dui charges in the past that makes you so angry at those who would really like to boat another day.
I no more want big brother to take away any more freedoms than you do, however, where do we draw the line so people with 18' boats to 40' boats get the message that a boat will kill just as easily as a car will, WHILE IMPAIRED !!
I have read many, many of your posts where you firmly believe, along with many others, it's okay to drink & drive a boat.
I guess i'd really like to know if you are a boater, and your sitting in a boat, say on parker, and someone plows into you, and say your girlfriend, she dies, and it's proven the driver only had a few beers, 110 degrees outside,
that you'll still feel the same way, that it's okay to drink & drive a boat??
Please let me & others know if this is truly how you see it.
Thanks, Scott
Good point HF, very good point

PaPaG
08-06-2007, 07:52 PM
To Mr. Riverdave,
I know i've only been on this site for a few years, not as long as you, but i've noticed over the years that this subject of drinking & driving a boat really tweeks your balls. I guess i'd like to know if you've had some kind of bad dui charges in the past that makes you so angry at those who would really like to boat another day.
I no more want big brother to take away any more freedoms than you do, however, where do we draw the line so people with 18' boats to 40' boats get the message that a boat will kill just as easily as a car will, WHILE IMPAIRED !!
I have read many, many of your posts where you firmly believe, along with many others, it's okay to drink & drive a boat.
I guess i'd really like to know if you are a boater, and your sitting in a boat, say on parker, and someone plows into you, and say your girlfriend, she dies, and it's proven the driver only had a few beers, 110 degrees outside,
that you'll still feel the same way, that it's okay to drink & drive a boat??
Please let me & others know if this is truly how you see it.
Thanks, Scott
Good point HF, very good point

Glamasu
08-06-2007, 07:53 PM
[QUOTE=RiverDave;2717094]Let me ask a perfectly logical question in this thread..
How many of you have taken a boating safety course, and actually know the rules of navigation? (not counting you Boatcop :D)
I have Read the "Chapman" piloting , seamanship and small boat handling book.
500pgs of anything and everything pertaining to vessel navigation.
It is the equivelent to Jeppeson for aviation pilots.
Does that qualify in you world?

ol guy
08-06-2007, 07:54 PM
Hey I'm sorry I strarted a war but again thanks for the responses, although some were deleted by others. I was just trying to clear up a couple points. Which will never be figured out.

vee-driven
08-06-2007, 08:06 PM
I hear zero tolerence out on the water and does that mean no alcohol whatsoever for the driver? If you are under .08 in Ca or .10 in az wich one applys and where, or do they just go with the .10 since the river and lakes are on the border? I don't drink much during the day but would like to know the law and what they mean by no tolerance and wich legal limit applys .08 and or .10. thanks
anyone wanna help out on this one?

The Doctor
08-06-2007, 08:20 PM
Everyone I've known personally who has had an accident of any degree in a vehicle while impaired openly said they've always been able to handle it fine before.
This argument about "how much is too much" is akin to how many places do you look for something that's been lost. It's always found in the last place you look? Must it always takes an accident to determine how much was too much? I've had two close friends lose family members to drunk drivers and many others seriously injured. It's always the same story. "I never had a problem before and I've drunk much more than this and driven responsibly before."
Hence the need for laws. I believe it's a shame everyone isn't on the same side of this discussion although it proves the real need for it. Statistics alone should be enough proof for us all to agree?

bohica
08-06-2007, 08:27 PM
Gone are the days of innocent until proven guilty. Thanks to electronic media and the press, one is usually presumed guilty these days.
I was in a bad boating accident back in 98. 3 of us on board, me driving. All of us were life flighted to Phoenix. I had been drinking, but not excessively and knew I wasn't over the limit. Front page article along with a huge photo in the local Havasu paper. Article had the same verbage as today's story, "Alcohol is believed to have been a factor." Some friends were out having breakfast next to a bunch of Mohave County Sheriff's the next day. The topic of their conversation was how trashed we were.
When the blood work came back and my BAC was nowhere near the limit, the Mohave County DA was not happy. They figured a lot of money was spent of the rescue, and they wanted it back. They brought up charges like endangerment, assault, ect. I ended up making a large contribution to the AZ safe boating fund and the DA was satisfied.
I learned that day that there is no such thing as an accident anymore. Thanks to lawyers, leo's and such, everything is now an INCIDENT.
I'm saving a bunch by not drinking beers on the lake anymore, but spending a fortune on the N/A stuff.

Goad
08-06-2007, 09:43 PM
[QUOTE=RiverDave;2717094]How many of you have taken a boating safety course, and actually know the rules of navigation?
I have....dad made me when I was younger. i didnt see the value of it 15+ years ago, i do now.
if you havent, go do it now. it may save your life or someone elses life someday.
http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/

ol guy
08-06-2007, 10:00 PM
Goad, the N?A stuff sucks but ST.pauly Girl makes a realy good one......

soupersonic
08-06-2007, 10:01 PM
I think some group should stand at the ramps and hand out "rules of the waterways" pamphlets to everyone launching, along with some plain ole "etiquette on the water" .Ill bet you would get alot of "gee i never knew responses". To me this would do more good than bitching on some forum about all the dumb basses. If you all love it so much do something to educate. Noone likes being told they are doing it wrong, but if they read it they might respond. My .02

ol guy
08-06-2007, 10:16 PM
Hey Supersonic. Great idea but probably 99% of the fliers you hand out will blow by you're feet in the next ten minutes. A very sad situation, but reality sucks. Lets just hope and pray more kids don't half to die before people slow down and have good time and realize where a good spot 100mph is. And you are not the only one on the water.

PaPaG
08-06-2007, 10:18 PM
I think some group should stand at the ramps and hand out "rules of the waterways" pamphlets to everyone launching, along with some plain ole "etiquette on the water" .Ill bet you would get alot of "gee i never knew responses". To me this would do more good than bitching on some forum about all the dumb basses. If you all love it so much do something to educate. Noone likes being told they are doing it wrong, but if they read it they might respond. My .02
good idea if they will listen

DSW
08-06-2007, 10:22 PM
I think the Leo's should sit at the ramps at the end of the day and breatholize drunken idiots coming in. Go directly from the ramp to jail. I'd bet 40-50% of drivers would get arrested. The extra revenue could easily pay for more LEO's and better equipment for them. In a perfect world someone who is shitfaced should not be able to make it from windsor or the channel to topock with out getting stopped. I rarely see LEO's outside of the channel or copper unless there is an accident or a fight at the sandbar. I'm not saying they arent doing their job, there just needs to be more of them. They also need to focus on making the lake safer, not just cleaning up after the accidents. Maybe more proactive.

fc-pilot
08-06-2007, 10:33 PM
I watched my father almost loose his life when I was only eight in a boating incident. A boater decided to exercise his right to operate his boat while consuming alcohol and changed my life as well as the life of my five other siblings. As you can imagine this topic is a very sensitive one to me. I would like to know which one of you would like to have explained what a legal limit is to me and my other brothers and sisters while at the funeral? True, I do have my father today (thank God), but I don't think that would have been an easy task. I am all for freedoms, but had things been different I would have no longer had the freedom of growing up with my father. Sometimes it is OK to give up some small things if it might help others keep big things (life) in the future.
I am sure I will catch a lot of flack for saying all of that, but it is worth it having been able to catch a ball with my dad.
Paul Miller

Goad
08-06-2007, 10:34 PM
I think the Leo's should sit at the ramps at the end of the day and breatholize drunken idiots coming in. Go directly from the ramp to jail. I'd bet 40-50% of drivers would get arrested.
Though I havent seen it, but I have heard that they already do this often. http://www.***boat.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

widowmaker
08-06-2007, 10:38 PM
I think the Leo's should sit at the ramps at the end of the day and breatholize drunken idiots coming in. Go directly from the ramp to jail. I'd bet 40-50% of drivers would get arrested. The extra revenue could easily pay for more LEO's and better equipment for them. In a perfect world someone who is shitfaced should not be able to make it from windsor or the channel to topock with out getting stopped. I rarely see LEO's outside of the channel or copper unless there is an accident or a fight at the sandbar. I'm not saying they arent doing their job, there just needs to be more of them. They also need to focus on making the lake safer, not just cleaning up after the accidents. Maybe more proactive.
Here, here. I'm all for it.

widowmaker
08-06-2007, 10:40 PM
I think some group should stand at the ramps and hand out "rules of the waterways" pamphlets to everyone launching, along with some plain ole "etiquette on the water" .Ill bet you would get alot of "gee i never knew responses". To me this would do more good than bitching on some forum about all the dumb basses. If you all love it so much do something to educate. Noone likes being told they are doing it wrong, but if they read it they might respond. My .02
I'd love to see this, but unfortunately Ol Guy is right, all those people who don't seem to listen to reason, will probably just throw the pamphelt on the ground and walk away. I've been going to the river for 25 years now and it is just sad to see the new era of boaters that just don't seem to give a sh*t. I hope that my children will be able to enjoy the river just as I have.

ol guy
08-06-2007, 10:53 PM
Hey thanks for the boost. It's hard to see the river go the way it has and old rats [25 years and some } can't stand the thoght. WE WILL keep it alive. The lake will be overrun by the ego and lack of boating ability and just to much money.

Boatcop
08-07-2007, 05:34 AM
I hear zero tolerence out on the water and does that mean no alcohol whatsoever for the driver? If you are under .08 in Ca or .10 in az wich one applys and where, or do they just go with the .10 since the river and lakes are on the border? I don't drink much during the day but would like to know the law and what they mean by no tolerance and wich legal limit applys .08 and or .10. thanks
All States (in this area) and the Federal Government have set .08% as the level where one is presumed to be "Impaired". Zero tolerance means that we will not let anyone off, if they're Impaired and/or above the presumed level, If you are caught driving a boat while impaired you WILL go to jail.
I think some group should stand at the ramps and hand out "rules of the waterways" pamphlets to everyone launching, along with some plain ole "etiquette on the water" .Ill bet you would get alot of "gee i never knew responses". To me this would do more good than bitching on some forum about all the dumb basses. If you all love it so much do something to educate. Noone likes being told they are doing it wrong, but if they read it they might respond. My .02
We've done that for years and yes, most of the information gets tossed on the ground or in the River. You can't force stuff like that on people. Remember the 'Watchtower" and "Alert".
I think the Leo's should sit at the ramps at the end of the day and breatholize drunken idiots coming in. Go directly from the ramp to jail. I'd bet 40-50% of drivers would get arrested. The extra revenue could easily pay for more LEO's and better equipment for them. In a perfect world someone who is shitfaced should not be able to make it from windsor or the channel to topock with out getting stopped. I rarely see LEO's outside of the channel or copper unless there is an accident or a fight at the sandbar. I'm not saying they arent doing their job, there just needs to be more of them. They also need to focus on making the lake safer, not just cleaning up after the accidents. Maybe more proactive.
We want to get the mesage to people BEFORE they get out on the water, not after. A majority of the boats we stop where the operator is drunk, have a sober person on board. All they would do is have the sober person take it into the ramp. (which they should have been doing all along) Our limited resources are better spent out on the water, where the real danger is.
We don't give a rat's ass about revenue.
When the blood work came back and my BAC was nowhere near the limit, the Mohave County DA was not happy. They figured a lot of money was spent of the rescue, and they wanted it back. They brought up charges like endangerment, assault, ect. I ended up making a large contribution to the AZ safe boating fund and the DA was satisfied.
There is no AZ safe boating fund, that a person can "contribute" to. We are funded by boat registration fees, marine fuel taxes, and Federal funding through the Coast Guard. There is no mechanism for private contributions.

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 07:33 AM
I think that when the topic of drinking and driving(car or boat) is brought up the facts get overlooked, emotions and opinions seem to take over. The facts, or atleast the way I understand them, are that it's illegal to operate a boat if you are deemed to be impaired or have a blood alcohol level of .08 or greater.
I think it's hard for anyone to determine at what level alcohol was THE cause of an accident. But the fact is that if your invovled in an accident, your fault or not, and are considered to be over the limit you will be found at fault. These are the rules, right or wrong. We all have the choice to either stay legal or roll the dice.
I hear alot of people saying that "I'm fine after a couple". Well that may or may not be true, the fact is if you get caught your opinion doesn't mean squat. It's very rare when you hear someone take responsibility for a DUI, it's always "I wasn't that bad".
We all make our own decisions.

Her454
08-07-2007, 07:59 AM
Let me ask a perfectly logical question in this thread..
How many of you have taken a boating safety course, and actually know the rules of navigation? (not counting you Boatcop :D)
Don't you think that might be just as important as not drinking? Do you think that if both people stayed to the right (oncoming) that any of this would've happened to begin with? .
Ok drunk vs stupid. First of all, it makes me wonder why your passion for drinking and driving (or losing our freedoms) is so strong? Could it be that you have never lost someone that was completely heart wrenching to a drunk driver? Like a child. I pray this never happens to my child but if it did, I think I would have a hard time forgiving drunk over stupid. Accidents happen every day and there are a ton of inexperienced boaters all around us. So yes I agree with you when you say that education is just as important as drinking and driving. But when you choose to drink and drive, you are being irresponsible & stupid, period. Sure, some of us can handle more alcohol than others and still operate a boat or vehicle. ALot of lives have been lost where the driver said, "I didnt think I was that drunk". We can help educate the inexperienced with the advice of boards like this, friends, classes, etc. We can TRY and help with the problems of drinking and driving with boards like this, friends, etc...without being perceived as witchhunting. The bottom line is FRIENDS try not to let FRIENDS drive drunk. To answer your question....No, I have never participated in a boating class. I've been on boats all my life and I bet I could still learn alot from one.
Do you think if Kilrtoy (whom's as sober as a church mouse) knew half as much as he thinks he knows about running a boat that his thread would've been posted?
Why not have some SELF RESPONSIBILLITY, and SELF ACCOUNTABILLITY and go learn something before you just randomly condemn every single incident out on the water to OUI? I hate to keep bringing up Kilr's deal, but since it's fresh and everyone knows about.. He posted that thread dead ass convinced he was in the right. I've thought about it 6 ways to sunday and have come to the conclusion that he musta done something terribly wrong to end up like he did.. And sadly enough so did the other 2 drivers as well. Which makes it 3 for 3 performance boaters that made the most basic of basic mistakes in one INCIDENT!
What does booze have to do with any of that? Answer nothing.. Yet if one was drunk and went the correct way and ther others collided into his ass though.. You can bet the armchair quarterbacks and the "BADD" Nazi's would be all over his ass, saying he oughta swing from a tree.. RD
I didnt even respond to Kilrs thread but since you asked. ... I think he is a complete idiot for doing 100mph on that stretch, or anywhere there on a weekend nowdays. And I say a complete idiot, because you would think HE would know better. I would be just as pissed off if he had killed a child doing something like that and moreso if he were drunk. Apparently he cant help being stupid and then making a point of posting it, but he can choose NOT to drink while being stupid. Might not make any sense to you but at least the next child might have half a chance at staying alive if the idiot behind the wheel is sober and can think just a little faster in trying to avoid a life changing situation. There will be sober accidents like you described, and there will alcohol involved accidents. Its human nature to want to find a reason for something when something terrible happens in life. Why be the reason? Self Accountability is NOT working and lives are being lost.
Losing freedoms to drink and relax on the river? Maybe. But just how much is that particular freedom worth to you? Its not worth my childs life or anyone else's in my opinion. I've told you this before, and I have the utmost respect for you and agree with most of what you say around here but I do have to say that your timing sucks. You, or anyone else trying to defend drunk driving at all, in a dead girls thread is in very poor taste.
I don't think that Sheba or anyone else who was on the boat is ready to give details. I'm sure if she can, or needs to talk about it, she will. I will say, (as told to me by my niece), and as briefly as possible without details of physical injury, that Sara and her father were camping with family and close friends. They were traveling in 2 boats and a jetski, coming back from being out for quite awhile. The jetski in front, the boat with Sara and Sheba next, and the boat with Sara's father in back. The boat that hit them was driven by a man who was drunk, driving "about 50" (I don't know what that equates to in knots) and on the wrong side of the river. I was told that my family's boat swerved the correct way, but that the other driver also swerved in that direction. We all know that when even a few drinks are involved, "thinking quick" and "clear" is just not going to happen. Maybe if he was sober he could have reacted differently and a) stayed on his side of the river, and b) if still on the wrong side of the river, could have swerved the correct way to avoid the other boat.
Sheba, I'm so sorry you and evryone in the group had to go through this. I'm praying for you, too.

Dave C
08-07-2007, 07:59 AM
I don't think that was his point..... I think he is frustrated with the fact that that people are always looking for a scapegoat when their behavior is bad. People need to take responsibility for their actions.
some boaters act in an irresponsible matter and alcohol may not have anything to do about it....
example look at the Cali law closely, you are responsible for your boat even if a family member is driving. So having a DD may not be the greatest idea. Either be responsible and not get hammered or leave the boat at home. (unless u trust your wife to drive ;) )
To Mr. Riverdave,
I know i've only been on this site for a few years, not as long as you, but i've noticed over the years that this subject of drinking & driving a boat really tweeks your balls. I guess i'd like to know if you've had some kind of bad dui charges in the past that makes you so angry at those who would really like to boat another day.
I no more want big brother to take away any more freedoms than you do, however, where do we draw the line so people with 18' boats to 40' boats get the message that a boat will kill just as easily as a car will, WHILE IMPAIRED !!
I have read many, many of your posts where you firmly believe, along with many others, it's okay to drink & drive a boat.
I guess i'd really like to know if you are a boater, and your sitting in a boat, say on parker, and someone plows into you, and say your girlfriend, she dies, and it's proven the driver only had a few beers, 110 degrees outside,
that you'll still feel the same way, that it's okay to drink & drive a boat??
Please let me & others know if this is truly how you see it.
Thanks, Scott

superdave013
08-07-2007, 08:10 AM
Ok drunk vs stupid. First of all, it makes me wonder why your passion for drinking and driving (or losing our freedoms) is so strong? Could it be that you have never lost someone that was completely heart wrenching to a drunk driver?
not taking any sides on this deal. But I did sit right next to RD at our pal Chris Cline's funeral service. Chris and 2 others died at the Parker Strip at night. I still miss that guy every day.
So to answer your question, yes, he has been there at least once.

Her454
08-07-2007, 08:26 AM
not taking any sides on this deal. But I did sit right next to RD at our pal Chris Cline's funeral service. Chris and 2 others died at the Parker Strip at night. I still miss that guy every day.
So to answer your question, yes, he has been there at least once.
I thought about that when I typed it out, but I was trying to make a point about "children". I' ve lost friends and its terrible. I couldn't imagine losing my daughter. Guess I could have worded it differently. Sorry for your friend Dave.

hkunz
08-07-2007, 08:29 AM
How many of you have taken a boating safety course, and actually know the rules of navigation? (not counting you Boatcop )
Hmmm, I guess that U.S. Navy's Boat Officer PQS package would qualify as a "boating safety course". I quickly found that the Rules of the Road don't happen on ANY lake, since, at least partly, there is no requirement to get any sort of qualification (similar to a state-isued driver's license) before purchasing or driving a boat. The rules are simple and straightforward, and although in English, have been mastered by people all over the world. The one that many of our Hoboat brethren seem to feel is most important, "the law of gross tonnage (or, in our case, boat purchase price) applies", actually is a law of physics (or, again in our case, ego-driven psychology), not man.
Remember, if you are driving, or the owner, you are the captain. The captain is ultimately responsible. If you are too incapacitated (for whatever reason)to drive your own vessel and let your inexperienced/distracted/drunk buddy drive instead, you are still responsible.
If you blow/bloodtest any amount of any "substance", including prescriptions in your own name that say "may cause drowsiness or difficulty operating equipment", you are still in the wrong, even if the other (non-impaired) operator disobeyed the rules of the road. The only out is to properly display the symbols indicating an issue on your mast (say if you have a large boat with a deep draft that may be constrained in manuvering while in the Channel, or the transisition from the lake into the river mouth) - anybody seen the masts DCB and Eliminator are mounting on their boats? Me neither.
So, my point? You and I, each one of us, is responsible for ourselves, no matter what. So that dork in the jetski/pontoon/Ultra/DCB/Scarab (my personal favorite on the idiot hit parade) drives like an amped-up moron and runs across your bow while you are on plane, or up your stern while in the river - take control of the situation and get out of it. Slow down, speed up, turn away, whatever it takes.

River Lynchmob
08-07-2007, 08:46 AM
I have been on/in/around boats since I was an embryo. I have driven every type of boat there is from 18' jet boat to 42' dual engined offshore boats to ski race boats etc. I consider myself a good driver. I had to take a boating safety course and I will tell you one thing, I didn't know half of what I thoguht I did. I took it in Parker and Boatcop was the instructor and I will tell you it was the best most informative day I have spent at the river and I highly recommend everyone who has not taken this class to take it or one like it. I am not 100% sure but I believe it is a free course so do yourself, your family and your fellow boaters a favor and take a safety course.
My .02

ULTRA26 # 1
08-07-2007, 08:46 AM
To Mr. Riverdave,
I know i've only been on this site for a few years, not as long as you, but i've noticed over the years that this subject of drinking & driving a boat really tweeks your balls. I guess i'd like to know if you've had some kind of bad dui charges in the past that makes you so angry at those who would really like to boat another day.
I no more want big brother to take away any more freedoms than you do, however, where do we draw the line so people with 18' boats to 40' boats get the message that a boat will kill just as easily as a car will, WHILE IMPAIRED !!
I have read many, many of your posts where you firmly believe, along with many others, it's okay to drink & drive a boat.
I guess i'd really like to know if you are a boater, and your sitting in a boat, say on parker, and someone plows into you, and say your girlfriend, she dies, and it's proven the driver only had a few beers, 110 degrees outside,
that you'll still feel the same way, that it's okay to drink & drive a boat??
Please let me & others know if this is truly how you see it.
Thanks, Scott
Scott,
I too have read many times RD's, position with regard to drinking and driving a boat.
Seems to me that there are those who truely love boating and have no issue with not drinking while driving their boat. And then there are others who truly love drinking, while at home, in a bar, while driving a car, and while DRIVING A BOAT. Two very different types
The sport of Performance Boating has nothing to do a alcohol. The love for alcohol should not relate to Performance Boating, operating CNC machine, running a chainsaw or anything similar. I wonder how RD would feel about having a tumor removed from his brain by a doctor who feels its OK to have a few beers prior to surgery? While I understand that this is an extreme example, it relates.

stix818
08-07-2007, 08:52 AM
I agree with RD for the most part. I must say though that I do think drinking and driving isn't appropriate but I must make one point. I've lived at the river over 27 years now and I personally believe driving edicate on the river has gone to $HIT over the last couple of years. There's no reason when someone is in the water with a flag up that people have to drive like idiots around them. If a boat is floating why do people have to run up on them????? I think that there is way to much traffic on the river these days, mostly on the weekends, for boats comimg up river running 80-90+ mph and wave an air horn in the air like someone will actually hear it. Slow the **CK down. There's a time and place to let her run out the back door!!!!!!! And believe me I've seen my share of accidents and have lost friends on the river. The last one I witnessed was last fourth of July involving a young girl and alcohol wasn't involved!!!!!

driverno8
08-07-2007, 08:54 AM
Why can't we take a test and have something on our drivers license. Similar to motorcycles. I have a M1 on my license. I had to take a test, both written and driving on my bike to get it. If we did the same thing for boating it would force EVERYONE to take a safety course and know the rules. Put like a "V" for vessel on there. (because B is taken). Getting pulled over on your boat would net the same ticket/fine as getting stopped on a bike with out a motorcycle license. Plus make it where you couldn't rent boats or PWC with out it, etc. :idea:
I also like the idea of doing this for trailer towing. That would weed out a bunch of idiots. You'd have to have a "T" to tow a trailer.

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 09:08 AM
Why can't we take a test and have something on our drivers license. Similar to motorcycles. I have a M1 on my license. I had to take a test, both written and driving on my bike to get it. If we did the same thing for boating it would force EVERYONE to take a safety course and know the rules. Put like a "V" for vessel on there. (because B is taken). Getting pulled over on your boat would net the same ticket/fine as getting stopped on a bike with out a motorcycle license. Plus make it where you couldn't rent boats or PWC with out it, etc. :idea:
I also like the idea of doing this for trailer towing. That would weed out a bunch of idiots. You'd have to have a "T" to tow a trailer.
I guess because this would somehow take away more of our right? I think that licensing is a good idea, it would only take away the rights of those that couldn't pass the test.
I would bet that most boat manufacturers wouldn't support this. I can't imagine they would want their market limited in anyway.

Baja Big Dog
08-07-2007, 09:15 AM
UN-FRICKEN REAL....comon, its called "beer balls" and the four most famous words from a person that has been drinking............."IM OK TO DRIVE"
We have all heard it, me more than most since I do not drink, and tell many many people, Ill drive you home, and the response is "IM OK TO DRIVE".
You can blow all the sunshine up peoples skirts when you say that, because you are not like the rest of the people, yea your fine even if you only had a few beers! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!
Everyone take up your sides....if you drink, and drive (car, boat, motorcycle etc) your in the wrong, and maybe if hung a few of the people from that tree that get caught BEFORE they kill somebody things will change..Yea right!!!
We can all post up about how our rights are gonna be taken away, and at the end of the day, what do we have. The life of a beautiful little girl is still gone, but we loose sight of that worrying about more laws that may prevent this from happening again.
I say we take all LEO's off the water, eliminate the random testing, that way the guys that think they have a right to operate a boat with a few beers (because they can handle it better than most people) wont have to worry about getting in trouble.
SAD....,JUST SAD.....,

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 09:31 AM
UN-FRICKEN REAL....comon, its called "beer balls" and the four most famous words from a person that has been drinking............."IM OK TO DRIVE"
We have all heard it, me more than most since I do not drink, and tell many many people, Ill drive you home, and the response is "IM OK TO DRIVE".
You can blow all the sunshine up peoples skirts when you say that, because you are not like the rest of the people, yea your fine even if you only had a few beers! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!
Everyone take up your sides....if you drink, and drive (car, boat, motorcycle etc) your in the wrong, and maybe if hung a few of the people from that tree that get caught BEFORE they kill somebody things will change..Yea right!!!
We can all post up about how our rights are gonna be taken away, and at the end of the day, what do we have. The life of a beautiful little girl is still gone, but we loose sight of that worrying about more laws that may prevent this from happening again.
I say we take all LEO's off the water, eliminate the random testing, that way the guys that think they have a right to operate a boat with a few beers (because they can handle it better than most people) wont have to worry about getting in trouble.
SAD....,JUST SAD.....,
I assume your last paragraph is sarcasm.

dossangers
08-07-2007, 09:49 AM
Sept 4 years ago was the MOST HORRIFIC day for me and my wife we lost BOTH our childeren Jonathan and Jacquel Herbert to a boating accident. Alcohol was involved!!!!! The driver of the other boat was an EXPERT boat racer/builder Fled the scene like a coward!!! You people better get a clue!
ALCOHOL AND MACHINERY DONT MIX!
If anybody wants to know what AGONY is ask me. When i was raising our childeren when they were 1st driving a car i would wait a nervous wreck till they got home and imagine what i would do if something tragic happened!
Well its a 100 times worse theres no way to describe agony,heartache,grief of EPIC proportions. Then theres the dreams of you holding your childeren kissing loving growing as a family then you wake up in a cold SWEAT in the middle of the night screaming reality it hits home then! Ive boated all my life My son learned from me Zero ALCOHOL when boating i mean ZERO till the boats on the trailer RIVERDAVE you make me sick with your defense of alcolhol and boating.
I go on the sandbar forum and all i hear about is partying at the sandbar jello shots tons of alcohol no responsibility going a 100 mph across the lake ive seen it year after year boating. The boats are bigger and FASTER and the EGO'S are BIGGER!!! Then i see these threads about somebody geting hurt bad and all the sympathy from here and the same people are GUILTY of OUI!
You people have no idea what its like to lose a child or 2 like me. Ill grieve everyday for the rest of my life wake in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering how this could have happened! Theres a lot of soul searching and about how little time it takes to CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!
FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then theres the Birthdays,Christmas and so on. So take a long hard look at your ACTIONS then look at your kids and make a DECISION!!
In Memory of Jonathan James Herbert and Jacquel Joy Herbert

ULTRA26 # 1
08-07-2007, 10:09 AM
Sept 4 years ago was the MOST HORRIFIC day for me and my wife we lost BOTH our childeren Jonathan and Jacquel Herbert to a boating accident. Alcohol was involved!!!!! The driver of the other boat was an EXPERT boat racer/builder Fled the scene like a coward!!! You people better get a clue!
ALCOHOL AND MACHINERY DONT MIX!
If anybody wants to know what AGONY is ask me. When i was raising our childeren when they were 1st driving a car i would wait a nervous wreck till they got home and imagine what i would do if something tragic happened!
Well its a 100 times worse theres no way to describe agony,heartache,grief of EPIC proportions. Then theres the dreams of you holding your childeren kissing loving growing as a family then you wake up in a cold SWEAT in the middle of the night screaming reality it hits home then! Ive boated all my life My son learned from me Zero ALCOHOL when boating i mean ZERO till the boats on the trailer RIVERDAVE you make me sick with your defense of alcolhol and boating.
I go on the sandbar forum and all i hear about is partying at the sandbar jello shots tons of alcohol no responsibility going a 100 mph across the lake ive seen it year after year boating. The boats are bigger and FASTER and the EGO'S are BIGGER!!! Then i see these threads about somebody geting hurt bad and all the sympathy from here and the same people are GUILTY of OUI!
You people have no idea what its like to lose a child or 2 like me. Ill grieve everyday for the rest of my life wake in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering how this could have happened! Theres a lot of soul searching and about how little time it takes to CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!
FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then theres the Birthdays,Christmas and so on. So take a long hard look at your ACTIONS then look at your kids and make a DECISION!!
In Memory of Jonathan James Herbert and Jacquel Joy Herbert
I am so sorry. I remember this happening very clearly.
I have one Son and can't even begin to imagine losing him.
I came very close to losing my Father to a drunk driver on Christmas morning. He was hit head on and he and his wife spend 6 weeks in the hospital.

C-2
08-07-2007, 10:45 AM
Sept 4 years ago was the MOST HORRIFIC day for me and my wife we lost BOTH our childeren Jonathan and Jacquel Herbert to a boating accident. Alcohol was involved!!!!! The driver of the other boat was an EXPERT boat racer/builder Fled the scene like a coward!!! You people better get a clue!
ALCOHOL AND MACHINERY DONT MIX!
If anybody wants to know what AGONY is ask me. When i was raising our childeren when they were 1st driving a car i would wait a nervous wreck till they got home and imagine what i would do if something tragic happened!
Well its a 100 times worse theres no way to describe agony,heartache,grief of EPIC proportions. Then theres the dreams of you holding your childeren kissing loving growing as a family then you wake up in a cold SWEAT in the middle of the night screaming reality it hits home then! Ive boated all my life My son learned from me Zero ALCOHOL when boating i mean ZERO till the boats on the trailer RIVERDAVE you make me sick with your defense of alcolhol and boating.
I go on the sandbar forum and all i hear about is partying at the sandbar jello shots tons of alcohol no responsibility going a 100 mph across the lake ive seen it year after year boating. The boats are bigger and FASTER and the EGO'S are BIGGER!!! Then i see these threads about somebody geting hurt bad and all the sympathy from here and the same people are GUILTY of OUI!
You people have no idea what its like to lose a child or 2 like me. Ill grieve everyday for the rest of my life wake in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering how this could have happened! Theres a lot of soul searching and about how little time it takes to CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!
FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then theres the Birthdays,Christmas and so on. So take a long hard look at your ACTIONS then look at your kids and make a DECISION!!
In Memory of Jonathan James Herbert and Jacquel Joy Herbert
I don’t personally know you, but think about what happened to you often, especially when people start popping off about drinking and accidents.
I’m sure there is nobody on this board more qualified than you to relay the senseless, and needless, pain inflicted by an irresponsible fool who was not mature enough to say “no.”
I can’t imagine how you get along on a daily basis, and admire your tenacity and restraint from blasting a lot of these fools on this board.
One day (hopefully),some of these idiots will find what you lost, and realize there are many, many things in life more precious than a cold CL while boating.
Thanks for the reminder.

It's Only Money
08-07-2007, 11:07 AM
Mr. RiverDave you are a freaking Neanderthal. Give up the holier than thou "our freedoms are being taken away" or "take responsibility for your action". You are just spewing crap to defend your untenable position of drinking and driving. Bullsh!t! People die from what one poster called "beer balls" every focking day on the roads. There are laws against drinking and drivign on the roads as there SHOULD be on the waterways. It's even more troublesome on the water as there are no barriers between the directions such as on the highways. No lanes. No lane controls of any kind. Mix in the varieties of mismatched speeds and vehicles from Jetskis to 40+ foot ocean boats plying the Colorado River and Lake Havasu and you get an explosive environment even WITHOUT ALCOHOL. You are a moron. Plain and simple. You are dangerous. Plain and simple. I'd be more than willing to say that to your face if you didn't hibernate in Parker with your drunken friends. Grow up before you are responsible for killing someone with your drinking and driving. WILL YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY when that occurs or lamely blame someone or something else like punks usually do?

Jbb
08-07-2007, 11:40 AM
Mr. RiverDave you are a freaking Neanderthal. Give up the holier than thou "our freedoms are being taken away" or "take responsibility for your action". You are just spewing crap to defend your untenable position of drinking and driving. Bullsh!t! People die from what one poster called "beer balls" every focking day on the roads. There are laws against drinking and drivign on the roads as there SHOULD be on the waterways. It's even more troublesome on the water as there are no barriers between the directions such as on the highways. No lanes. No lane controls of any kind. Mix in the varieties of mismatched speeds and vehicles from Jetskis to 40+ foot ocean boats plying the Colorado River and Lake Havasu and you get an explosive environment even WITHOUT ALCOHOL. You are a moron. Plain and simple. You are dangerous. Plain and simple. I'd be more than willing to say that to your face if you didn't hibernate in Parker with your drunken friends. Grow up before you are responsible for killing someone with your drinking and driving. WILL YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY when that occurs or lamely blame someone or something else like punks usually do?
Pretty harsh words there Money man.....Do you even read what he has posted....?...or do you just ...follow the crowd...?

HM
08-07-2007, 11:51 AM
Pretty harsh words there Money man.....Do you even read what he has posted....?...or do you just ...follow the crowd...?
Didn't you hear?
RD SUX!

Jbb
08-07-2007, 11:52 AM
Didn't you hear?
RD SUX!
Thats right.......pardon my momentary lapse of reason.......carry on...

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 11:57 AM
Hey Brian, are the words "pile on" meaningless to you? :confused:

Jbb
08-07-2007, 11:59 AM
Hey Brian, are the words "pile on" meaningless to you? :confused:
That's a 15 yard penalty in these here United States.....Canatard!...

40FlatDeck
08-07-2007, 12:09 PM
I don't think the people bashing on RD really read his posts, or, they do not understand what he is trying to say. :(
For all of those who lost a loved one, I am truly, truly, sorry.

Nord
08-07-2007, 12:15 PM
Mr. RiverDave you are a freaking Neanderthal. Give up the holier than thou "our freedoms are being taken away" or "take responsibility for your action". You are just spewing crap to defend your untenable position of drinking and driving. Bullsh!t! People die from what one poster called "beer balls" every focking day on the roads. There are laws against drinking and drivign on the roads as there SHOULD be on the waterways. It's even more troublesome on the water as there are no barriers between the directions such as on the highways. No lanes. No lane controls of any kind. Mix in the varieties of mismatched speeds and vehicles from Jetskis to 40+ foot ocean boats plying the Colorado River and Lake Havasu and you get an explosive environment even WITHOUT ALCOHOL. You are a moron. Plain and simple. You are dangerous. Plain and simple. I'd be more than willing to say that to your face if you didn't hibernate in Parker with your drunken friends. Grow up before you are responsible for killing someone with your drinking and driving. WILL YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY when that occurs or lamely blame someone or something else like punks usually do?
I don't think you read Dave's posts in full by making this comment. Do you know Dave?? Why do you think he is drinks and drives? Because he posts about freedoms being taken away? Because he blames idiots behind the wheel before drinking and driving?? This doesn't mean he doesn't blame drinking its just another angle on an arguement in a forum. I can tell you in the last 3 years, I've ever seen Dave get blasted and jump behind the wheel. I stay at Dave's house in Parker and let me tell you we are not a bunch of drunks. As a matter of fact there are two people in our group we "hibernate" with that do not even drink at all!!! Nobody drives after drinking. I have been there when Dave talks people out of driving after a few drinks at the bars, house, sandbars, wherever.
~NORD~

ULTRA26 # 1
08-07-2007, 12:24 PM
Pretty harsh words there Money man.....Do you even read what he has posted....?...or do you just ...follow the crowd...?
I know that you and Dave go back at least as far as "In Memory of Our Brothers Lost", the matter to help Steve C's widow and family.
With the exception of this one issue, Dave seems to an intelligent guy.
What I do know that is past threads, Dave has stated that he may have a couple. A few posts later it's three or four, and then a few posts after that he is arguing the legal limit of .08 or .10 is to low, and that most alcohol related boating accidents result from .15 and above. (a position that Alan, Boatcop disputed with figures.)
It seems that I am not the only one who has read Dave's repeated attempts at defending his right to drink and boat. Dave's comment, that taking issue with drinking and boating in some way poses a negative affect on the sport of Powerboating, is nonsense. Clearly the folks who relate drinking and boating relate drinking with everything else in their lives.
It isn't acceptable for a Doctor to have a few before surgery or a pilot to have a few before taking off in a jet. It's not acceptable for the driver of a car, in most states, to drive at a level of .08 or above. By the same token, the OUI laws on the River and Lakes in CA and AZ, state that operating a boat at a level of .08 is unlawful. In previous threads, Dave has suggested that he more capable of properly handling his boat at a level of .08 than lesser experienced boaters. While this may or may not be correct, at .08 he is breaking the law which are the same laws that everyone on the waterways must obey. Problem is that some are more seriously impaired at .05 than others at .08. But the true reality is that everyone at .05, .08, .10, .15 and so on, is impaired to a degree. Even Dave is a better driver when not impaired by the use of alcohol.

superdave013
08-07-2007, 12:24 PM
I stay at Dave's house in Parker and let me tell you we are not a bunch of drunks.
~NORD~
ahhahaha, so all that puke that was always on the side of the Nordic was due to food poising. ahahaha
Really though, I know RD has a DD behind the wheel. I've done it myself. And that day it was that kwitcherbitchin guy that puked all over everything.
ahahaha
I went to Dossangers kids services. I only knew Wayne, never met his kids. Still totally broke down that day along with every one else. Just terrible. Just read his post and broke down again.

Jbb
08-07-2007, 12:30 PM
I know that you and Dave go back at least as far as "In Memory of Our Brothers Lost", the matter to help Steve C's widow and family.
With the exception of this one issue, Dave seems to an intelligent guy. If I had to guess, I would say that Dave is a heavy drinker, but since I don't know the man I won't speculate.
What I do know that is past threads, Dave has stated that he may have a couple. A few posts later it's three or four, and then a few posts after that he is arguing the legal limit of .08 or .10 is to low, and that most alcohol related boating accidents result from .15 and above. (a position that Alan, Boatcop disputed with figures.)
It seems that I am not the only one who has read Dave's repeated attempts at defending his right to drink and boat. Dave's comment, that taking issue with drinking and boating in some way poses a negative affect on the sport of Powerboating, is nonsense. Clearly the folks who relate drinking and boating relate drinking with everything else in their lives.
It isn't acceptable for a Doctor to have a few before surgery or a pilot to have a few before taking off in a jet. It's not acceptable for the driver of a car, in most states, to drive at a level of .08 or above. By the same token, the OUI laws on the River and Lakes in CA and AZ, state that operating a boat at a level of .08 is unlawful. In previous threads, Dave has suggested that he more capable of properly handling his boat at a level of .08 than lesser experienced boaters. While this may or may not be correct, at .08 he is breaking the law which are the same laws that everyone on the waterways must obey. Problem is that some are more seriously impaired at .05 than others at .08. But the true reality is that everyone at .05, .08, .10, .15 and so on, is impaired to a degree. Even Dave is a better driver when not impaired by the use of alcohol.
For the record ...I dont drink.....so I dont have a dog in this fight......What concerns me is the name calling ...fighting words, and threats from all the keyboard tough guys ...that seems to come around ....every time there is a difference of opinion....
People can agree to disagree...without stooping to name calling.....
Joking around with people is one thing............what this issue has come to in terms of what threats and such are posted.....and personal attacks and name calling that goes on...........makes me chuckle....:D
Have at it boys....RD SUX

Nord
08-07-2007, 12:35 PM
For the record ...I dont drink.....so I dont have a dog in this fight......What concerns me is the name calling ...fighting words, and threats from all the keyboard tough guys ...that seems to come around ....every time there is a difference of opinion....
People can agree to disagree...without stooping to name calling.....
Joking around with people is one thing............what this issue has come to in terms of what threats and such are posted.....and personal attacks and name calling that goes on...........makes me chuckle....:D
Have at it boys....RD SUX
I..........totally............agree............... :D

ULTRA26 # 1
08-07-2007, 12:36 PM
For the record ...I dont drink.....so I dont have a dog in this fight......What concerns me is the name calling ...fighting words, and threats from all the keyboard tough guys ...that seems to come around ....every time there is a difference of opinion....
People can agree to disagree...without stooping to name calling.....
Joking around with people is one thing............what this issue has come to in terms of what threats and such are posted.....and personal attacks and name calling that goes on...........makes me chuckle....:D
Have at it boys....RD SUX
Brian,
I'm not a drinker myself and this maybe one of the reaosns for my position. The name calling serves no purpose, with the exception of RD SUX,
of course.
John M

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 12:37 PM
For the record ...I dont drink.....
WTF? Do you wear women's clothes on weekends too? :eek:
If you don't drink, you are obviously an idiot of low intellect with few friends and no life. Why don't you take your miserable existence elsewhere before we stuff that sanctimoneous keyboard up your arse.
For a non-drinker to throw down in a thread about drinking is like the Pope setting down the rules for sex. Blasphemy! :yuk:

superdave013
08-07-2007, 12:39 PM
for some reason I hear a distant beating of trible drums (((((BOOM))))) ((((BOOM)))) and I have this urge to call JBB some meanie names. :D

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 12:40 PM
I have this urge to call JBB some meanie names. :D
Cobra neglector. :D

Baja Big Dog
08-07-2007, 12:41 PM
I assume your last paragraph is sarcasm.
It could be sarcasm, but some here would feel its a good idea!!!!
Point being, the ones that think its OK to be a little shit faced dont want better ways to prevent people that shouldnt be drinking to get caught.
Again..."Im OK to drive"!!!

ULTRA26 # 1
08-07-2007, 12:42 PM
WTF? Do you wear women's clothes on weekends too? :eek:
If you don't drink, you are obviously an idiot of low intellect with few friends and no life. Why don't you take your miserable existence elsewhere before we stuff that sanctimoneous keyboard up your arse.
For a non-drinker to throw down in a thread about drinking is like the Pope setting down the rules for sex. Blasphemy! :yuk:
LMFAO

HM
08-07-2007, 12:48 PM
Brian,
I'm not a drinker myself and this maybe one of the reaosns for my position. The name calling serves no purpose, with the exception of RD SUX,
of course.
John M
John...I am not a drinker as well. I am the kind of guy that a 6 pack in my fridge will last over a year. The name calling serves a humorous purpose. But you are dead wrong about RD SUX...that is f'n serious chit from back in the day. Only those who are brave will segway into kicking RD in the junk. :idea: :D

riverbound
08-07-2007, 12:56 PM
Just to back up what Nerd with an O said ;)
I party with Dave ALL the time, and as much as we are a group of partiers, we are smarter than most in the fact that there is ALWAYS a DD behind the wheel. and the fact our DDs arent just a sober guy, but someone who actually knows how to operate aboat safely. I think you guys are after the wrong witch on this hunt.
I know what it is like to lose a loved one due to drunk drivers, or to lose a friend because he was "ok to drive". although Im just as bad when I drink, I hang with good enough friends that WONT let me drive if I have been drinking...ironically its the same group this "lynchmob" is trying to hang.
Walk up to any boat in our group and look for the driver, he will be the sober guy laughing at our drunk friends, and the one who will make sure we get home safely.
I have read a couple different posts from "non drinkers" Where they admitted to watching friends get in the boat after driking and watching them drive away. My advice for you is...grow some Focking balls and dont let them. you are just as bad as the guy who drives liquored up.

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 12:56 PM
You know...
I don't even know why I bother to write a reasonable response on this message board anymore..
Nobody reads them anyways.
They take a post that is a half a page long and only read the words "Drink and Drive" (much like I'm sure they will do to this very post).
From the very 1st post I got a PM from someone..
vigilanties and lemmings following them are circling the wagons on this one......you are not gonna change any minds.......dont waste your brain on this one....even though you are right...
"Don't waste your brain..."
You people are completely incapable of having a RATIONAL, and INTELLIGENT conversation. Anytime somebody says anything that disagrees catch phrases come out "If it only saves one life"
Well you know what, that's focking Horse shit in itself..
Every person that has ever uttered those words should be drug out in the street and shot.. What about all the people who have died to found this country? The people that fought and died for those freedoms? Just so you can say "Well if it saves one, then it's worth giving that freedom up?" Those people are probably rolling over in their graves, watching fanatic retards like you people run this country into the ground. Not just on this issue, but on every single issue that comes to the plate.
IN EVERY SINGLE POST I'VE EVER MADE, I SIMPLY SUGGESTED
WHAT IS WRONG WITH A LITTLE MODERATION to put it plainly, and accepting the fact that sometimes shit happens. People make mistakes, we don't always have to have a scape goat, and not always does their have to be a villain.
RD

Baja Big Dog
08-07-2007, 12:58 PM
Dave,
I didn't put this thread here to start an opinion war. Especially one between you and someone who hasn't even posted here.
I put this up so people can see the results of different studies by different entities, in one place, and make their own decisions.
Every one of those studies show that a person's ability to safely operate a boat is impaired to some extent with even low amounts of alcohol. That doesn't mean I, or anyone else, wants to lower the limit any more than it is now. All it's meant to do is give everyone some information that they may not be aware of, so they can become educated on the subect and maybe think twice about getting behind the controls after drinking.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Again...translation
BEER BALLS
IM OK to drive.....

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 01:00 PM
I have read a couple different posts from "non drinkers" Where they admitted to watching friends get in the boat after driking and watching them drive away. My advice for you is...grow some Focking balls and dont let them. you are just as bad as the guy who drives liquored up.
If you want to drink and drive, don't pretend I'm responsible. Man up, you 55 year old hippie.

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 01:02 PM
"If it only saves one life"
Well you know what, that's focking Horse shit in itself..
Every person that has ever uttered those words should be drug out in the street and shot.
Dammit, Dave. .... you have to throw down with that right after I found this diamond from moneypitt for my sig. http://www.***boat.com/ubb/mad.gif

Cole Trickle
08-07-2007, 01:05 PM
Mr. RiverDave you are a freaking Neanderthal. Give up the holier than thou "our freedoms are being taken away" or "take responsibility for your action". You are just spewing crap to defend your untenable position of drinking and driving. Bullsh!t! People die from what one poster called "beer balls" every focking day on the roads. There are laws against drinking and drivign on the roads as there SHOULD be on the waterways. It's even more troublesome on the water as there are no barriers between the directions such as on the highways. No lanes. No lane controls of any kind. Mix in the varieties of mismatched speeds and vehicles from Jetskis to 40+ foot ocean boats plying the Colorado River and Lake Havasu and you get an explosive environment even WITHOUT ALCOHOL. You are a moron. Plain and simple. You are dangerous. Plain and simple. I'd be more than willing to say that to your face if you didn't hibernate in Parker with your drunken friends. Grow up before you are responsible for killing someone with your drinking and driving. WILL YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY when that occurs or lamely blame someone or something else like punks usually do?
I have known Dave for a few years now and I have never seen him operate a vessel while intoxicated. I know for fact that he typically brings someone with him that acts as the DD. He has driven my boat after a day of drinking nothing but Ice T.
Hearing about these accidents always plays a song on my hearts strings but I think people are taking certain comments the wrong way. Dave dosen't approve of driving while intoxicated but like mentioned earlier is sick of seeing OUI used as a scape goat when there are other factors that come into play.
Also when the media puts there spin on things the lobbiest use that as ammunition and before you know it we won't be able to run to the store after a ounce of nyquil.

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 01:06 PM
Brian,
I'm not a drinker myself and this maybe one of the reaosns for my position. The name calling serves no purpose, with the exception of RD SUX,
of course.
John M
No that's the primary reason for your position. Pay attention becuase I'm going to go real slow here.
People like you understand your way of life. You can NOT understand any other way. You think that everybody thinks like you think, everybody should live life the way you live it, and that every other way is incorrect. That society as a whole should be the way you see fit. You do not consider the consequences of forcing your lifestyle down others throats, becuase you consider them to be wrong to begin with, so in reality there is no consequences.
The problem with that mentallity is that it does not fit the general notion of "The home of the brave and the land of the free" very well... Well point in fact it doesn't fit it at all. It tends to fit a communist mentallity fairly well, or perhaps a fascist mentallity?
What we're discussing here, isn't drinking and driving.. Well it is on the surface, but in reailty we're discussing the "ME ME ME ME ME ME" new society that has developed. Everybody is so concerned with themselves that their is no regard for others opinions, lifestyles, etc..
When a guy like me comes along and tries to say "Hey wouldn't it be for everybody if we actually looked at a problem and tried to solve it so that everybodies better off instead of just this narrow point of view?"
Retard fanatics like yourself (and others in this thread) say "THIS THE PROBLEM, THIS IS THE ONLY PROBLEM, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT YOUR THE PROBLEM" That is no different then any religious zealot over sees right now.
RD

yzfrider
08-07-2007, 01:17 PM
If anyone is interested here is a decent little site for basic navigation when on the water.
http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/

HavasuSelect
08-07-2007, 01:20 PM
WHAT IS WRONG WITH A LITTLE MODERATION to put it plainly, and accepting the fact that sometimes shit happens. People make mistakes, we don't always have to have a scape goat, and not always does their have to be a villain.
RD
Exactly....

spectras only
08-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Haven't checked the latest regulation on drinking in BC while driving a boat , but I'm almost sure it's zero % for the driver [the captain who's responsible for all his passengers:idea: ] . We had lots of deaths and drownings [ friend of mine drowned in his 20 Howard when struck a ski platform at night sinking his boat back in the 80's ] in the past three dacades . We had the same party atmosphere here back in the 70's 80's , especially in the Okanagan region, as you guys have now in Havi. The result is , a total clamping down by the city fathers on activities in Penticton , Kelowna etc,,,,,,. These places look like ghost towns now compared to what they were in the 70's ,80's era . I'm a non drinker and a designated driver , so RD could drink all the beer from my cooler on my boat :D .

fc-pilot
08-07-2007, 01:37 PM
What we're discussing here, isn't drinking and driving.. Well it is on the surface, but in reailty we're discussing the "ME ME ME ME ME ME" new society that has developed. Everybody is so concerned with themselves that their is no regard for others opinions, lifestyles, etc..
RD
Dave,
I usually never post here in the sandbar as I don't really fit in, but this comment really got me thinking. Do you really think people like me don't drink just for my own personal benefit? Do you really believe that I stay sober for the sole fact of keeping myself safe? On the flip side, do you believe that those who choose to drive while intoxicated are doing it for the benefit of others? Are they really helping us stay safe because they themselves are impaired and the rest are not?
I have heard that you use DD's and that does make me feel slightly better, but the issue of freedom still rings in my ear. When an incident like Wayne’s' (Dossangers) happens it removes more of his freedoms than could ever be removed from the guilty party. No law in the world could ever change what happened, but I bet if it magically saved the life of your children you might see it as preserving your freedom.
Paul Miller

dossangers
08-07-2007, 01:43 PM
You know...
I don't even know why I bother to write a reasonable response on this message board anymore..
Nobody reads them anyways.
They take a post that is a half a page long and only read the words "Drink and Drive" (much like I'm sure they will do to this very post).
From the very 1st post I got a PM from someone..
"Don't waste your brain..."
You people are completely incapable of having a RATIONAL, and INTELLIGENT conversation. Anytime somebody says anything that disagrees catch phrases come out "If it only saves one life"
Well you know what, that's focking Horse shit in itself..
Every person that has ever uttered those words should be drug out in the street and shot.. What about all the people who have died to found this country? The people that fought and died for those freedoms? Just so you can say "Well if it saves one, then it's worth giving that freedom up?" Those people are probably rolling over in their graves, watching fanatic retards like you people run this country into the ground. Not just on this issue, but on every single issue that comes to the plate.
IN EVERY SINGLE POST I'VE EVER MADE, I SIMPLY SUGGESTED
WHAT IS WRONG WITH A LITTLE MODERATION to put it plainly, and accepting the fact that sometimes shit happens. People make mistakes, we don't always have to have a scape goat, and not always does their have to be a villain.
RD
Im speechless you never cease to amaze me! If someone runs over and KILLS ONE OF YOUR KIDS while intoxicated will you give him a PASS because you dont want to IMPOSE on his FREEDOMS?? What about my freedom to boat without drunk ASSHOLES??? Im done here I hope i dont have to read about another DEATH on the river because of alcolhol! RD please dont respond you make me SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 01:52 PM
Paul, I don't feel I can discuss this any further on here without loosing tact, and maintaining some sort of class. If I were to say anything regarding what happened on Parker that fateful day, whether it be supportive or against, it'd be treading on thin ice that I'm not just willing to go out on.
I feel terrible for what happened to Wayne, and I garauntee vs everyone else that doesn't know him on here, I probably feel worse given that there was some incidents that occurred shortly after the fact, becuase some dumbass in a certain undeniable position led me to believe things were occurring that couldn't be further from the truth.
Ultimately though, Wayne has lost the most precious things in life, and I feel absolutely no need to rub salt in that wound. I too have lost (several friends if you must know) yet when you take away the emotion and really look at the situation, the solutions presented by the state, and radical nut job fanatic groups like MADD, are really not addressing the problems.
They do work (somewhat) statistically, but they turn a bunch of non threats into criminals, and make a bunch of real threats (in the boating sense of things) into borderline hero's.. (DD's save lives add campagnes).
My position is we should come up with a better solution to the problem(s), then clamping down harder (in almost every aspect of life nowdays) and harder year after year.
RD

Dave C
08-07-2007, 01:56 PM
I tried to tell them 2 pages ago that they missed your point...... LOL...
this sort of shiat happens all the time in Cali. We already have an OUI law but people are still doing it. So now what... another law, or maybe another law perhaps.
its the same thing with gun control... more and more laws don't address the fact that certain actions are already outlawed but people still break those laws.
Eventually all these laws erode our freedoms.
We need to address those individuals that are in violation the law.
then u can't fix stupid but thats another thread.....
You know...
I don't even know why I bother to write a reasonable response on this message board anymore..
Nobody reads them anyways.
They take a post that is a half a page long and only read the words "Drink and Drive" (much like I'm sure they will do to this very post).
From the very 1st post I got a PM from someone..
"Don't waste your brain..."
You people are completely incapable of having a RATIONAL, and INTELLIGENT conversation. Anytime somebody says anything that disagrees catch phrases come out "If it only saves one life"
Well you know what, that's focking Horse shit in itself..
Every person that has ever uttered those words should be drug out in the street and shot.. What about all the people who have died to found this country? The people that fought and died for those freedoms? Just so you can say "Well if it saves one, then it's worth giving that freedom up?" Those people are probably rolling over in their graves, watching fanatic retards like you people run this country into the ground. Not just on this issue, but on every single issue that comes to the plate.
IN EVERY SINGLE POST I'VE EVER MADE, I SIMPLY SUGGESTED
WHAT IS WRONG WITH A LITTLE MODERATION to put it plainly, and accepting the fact that sometimes shit happens. People make mistakes, we don't always have to have a scape goat, and not always does their have to be a villain.
RD

Jbb
08-07-2007, 02:00 PM
WTF? Do you wear women's clothes on weekends too? :eek:
If you don't drink, you are obviously an idiot of low intellect with few friends and no life. Why don't you take your miserable existence elsewhere before we stuff that sanctimoneous keyboard up your arse.
For a non-drinker to throw down in a thread about drinking is like the Pope setting down the rules for sex. Blasphemy! :yuk:
So I take it bowling on Thurs. night is off.....?

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 02:02 PM
Im speechless you never cease to amaze me! If someone runs over and KILLS ONE OF YOUR KIDS while intoxicated will you give him a PASS because you dont want to IMPOSE on his FREEDOMS?? What about my freedom to boat without drunk ASSHOLES??? Im done here I hope i dont have to read about another DEATH on the river because of alcolhol! RD please dont respond you make me SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Wayne, I've shown you nothing but the utmost respect in this thread..
I'll throw this out there though becuase honestly you need to hear it, you really shouldn't use your childrens death to prove a point on the internet! Again out of respect for your loss I'm going to let it go at that.
RD

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 02:15 PM
Hey Wayne, I've shown you nothing but the utmost respect in this thread..
I'll throw this out there though becuase honestly you need to hear it, you really shouldn't use your childrens death to prove a point on the internet! Again out of respect for your loss I'm going to let it go at that.
RD
Actually, if you truly had respect for his loss you would keep comments like this to yourself. It's called TACT.

superdave013
08-07-2007, 02:20 PM
Dave Dave Dave, please stop while you are only this far behind. Please

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 02:25 PM
Actually, if you truly had respect for his loss you would keep comments like this to yourself. It's called TACT.
I disagree MKEELINE, please don't make it out to be that I'm trying to pick on someone whom is suffering a loss either. I'm not.. I didn't bring it up, nor do I think it should be brought up on here. It's too personal to too many on here to be discussed with any kind of reason and logic.
RD

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 02:29 PM
I disagree MKEELINE, please don't make it out to be that I'm trying to pick on someone whom is suffering a loss either. I'm not.. I didn't bring it up, nor do I think it should be brought up on here. It's too personal to too many on here to be discussed with any kind of reason and logic.
RD
Yet, you keep discussing it. Knowing when not to speak or type can be a valuable skill.

Seadog
08-07-2007, 02:37 PM
It is sad that a serious event like this and others, should devolve into the usual bickering between rights and responsibilities. There is one simple fact that must exist. We are getting more and more people enjoying fewer resources. Either we act civilized and restrict our indulgences to that which is in the best interests of the herd, or we devolve into chaos, where every one of us does what we want, how we want, and when we want.
Think of how quiet and secluded the lakes of thirty years ago were, in relationship to how they are today. Think about the recreation areas, the beaches, the roads, etc. Those days are gone. And we must adapt to the times. The need to be more sober, to drive slower, and to pay more attention to others is here. Since there is a problem with those who choose to ignore being considerate, it is often necessary to make rules to get the point across. And even more so, there is a need to enforce those rules. Rules have no meaning without enforcement. But over enforcement is a police state.

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Yet, you keep discussing it. Knowing when not to speak or type can be a valuable skill.
WTF are you talking about? I keep talking about what?
I keep talking about LACK OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILLITY, and Fanatical Lemmings creating random solutions to the wrong problem.
Learning how to read is also a very valuable skill which apparently most the lemmings on ***boat are lacking.
RD

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 02:58 PM
WTF are you talking about? I keep talking about what?
I keep talking about LACK OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILLITY, and Fanatical Lemmings creating random solutions to the wrong problem.
Learning how to read is also a very valuable skill which apparently most the lemmings on ***boat are lacking.
RD
It's my opinion that what you said about Waynes kids was in bad taste. You are one of those people that speaks their mind, that's great, just don't get upset when people don't agree with it. All this drinking and boating talk has become a big pissing match, which no one will win.
I've read your posts and I understand your point. The FACTS are that there are laws in place already, whether you agree with them or not doesn't really mean much. I agree 100% that everyone is responsible for their own actions. There are no ACCIDENTS, things happen because something caused it to happen.

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 03:01 PM
last thought on this, and I gotta go..
It's my opinion that what you said about Waynes kids was in bad taste.
What did I say supposedly say about anyones kids? Let alone Waynes?
What I said (for the 2nd time) was that you shouldn't use that particular event to prove a point on the internet.
I appreciate you actually reading what I had to say.. Nice change of pace.
RD

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 03:07 PM
Hey Wayne, I've shown you nothing but the utmost respect in this thread..
I'll throw this out there though becuase honestly you need to hear it, you really shouldn't use your childrens death to prove a point on the internet! Again out of respect for your loss I'm going to let it go at that.
RD
One last thought before I have to go. I believe the above quote is yours....am I correct?

RiverDave
08-07-2007, 03:12 PM
One last thought before I have to go. I believe the above quote is yours....am I correct?
And?
Again, I chose not to speak about that particular incident even after it was brought up by others.. I still choose not to voice my opinions and to use that fateful day as an example out of respect for Wayne, even though he doesn't quite see it that way.
RD

SnoC653
08-07-2007, 03:12 PM
This thread is truely amazing.... freedoms vs safety of the masses. Freedom doesn't mean doing whatever you want. It means doing what you want within the boundries of the society. No drinking while boating laws don't make boaters safe. It simply makes more criminals. If you want to make people safe on the water, make having a boating license required like a drivers license. One that expresses limitations on what you can operate and how many people you can transport. Require safe boating knowlege to get that license verified by a test. If you are driving a high power performance boat, require a high HP endorsement. Vessels under 5HP could be exempt. Then you have something to loose if you break the rules. Then before someone jumped in a boat and didn't know which way to turn to avoid a head on they would have aleast been trained and have no excuse. And if you drink and drive, you could loose your license and then you'd be vulnerable to being caught before you got someone hurt. Just because you can drive a 30 foot cruiser shouldn't mean you are safe to captain a Super Tanker, nor does it mean you have the skills to be safe driving a sailboat drunk or sober. And the same holds true in reverse.

riverbound
08-07-2007, 03:14 PM
Mr. RiverDave you are a freaking Neanderthal. Give up the holier than thou "our freedoms are being taken away" or "take responsibility for your action". You are just spewing crap to defend your untenable position of drinking and driving. Bullsh!t! People die from what one poster called "beer balls" every focking day on the roads. There are laws against drinking and drivign on the roads as there SHOULD be on the waterways. It's even more troublesome on the water as there are no barriers between the directions such as on the highways. No lanes. No lane controls of any kind. Mix in the varieties of mismatched speeds and vehicles from Jetskis to 40+ foot ocean boats plying the Colorado River and Lake Havasu and you get an explosive environment even WITHOUT ALCOHOL. You are a moron. Plain and simple. You are dangerous. Plain and simple. I'd be more than willing to say that to your face if you didn't hibernate in Parker with your drunken friends. Grow up before you are responsible for killing someone with your drinking and driving. WILL YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY when that occurs or lamely blame someone or something else like punks usually do?
Its only money,
You should definitely look into some reading comprhension courses. I am one of those "drunken friends" and obviously you have no abillity to COMPREHEND what RD is trying to portray here. as far as "hibernating" ......we have been known to frequent Havasu too ;)
Punks????.....I do listen to that kind of music so, I could be considered one :D

ULTRA26 # 1
08-07-2007, 05:03 PM
No that's the primary reason for your position. Pay attention becuase I'm going to go real slow here.
People like you understand your way of life. You can NOT understand any other way. You think that everybody thinks like you think, everybody should live life the way you live it, and that every other way is incorrect. That society as a whole should be the way you see fit. You do not consider the consequences of forcing your lifestyle down others throats, becuase you consider them to be wrong to begin with, so in reality there is no consequences.
The problem with that mentallity is that it does not fit the general notion of "The home of the brave and the land of the free" very well... Well point in fact it doesn't fit it at all. It tends to fit a communist mentallity fairly well, or perhaps a fascist mentallity? What we're discussing here, isn't drinking and driving.. Well it is on the surface, but in reailty we're discussing the "ME ME ME ME ME ME" new society that has developed. Everybody is so concerned with themselves that their is no regard for others opinions, lifestyles, etc..
When a guy like me comes along and tries to say "Hey wouldn't it be for everybody if we actually looked at a problem and tried to solve it so that everybodies better off instead of just this narrow point of view?"
Retard fanatics like yourself (and others in this thread) say "THIS THE PROBLEM, THIS IS THE ONLY PROBLEM, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT YOUR THE PROBLEM" That is no different then any religious zealot over sees right now.
RD
Dave,
Sorry if you view those who don't approve of drinking and driving boats, as retard fanatics. That about says it all.
PS. Your comment The problem with that mentallity is that it does not fit the general notion of "The home of the brave and the land of the free" very well... Well point in fact it doesn't fit it at all. It tends to fit a communist mentallity fairly well, or perhaps a fascist mentallity?
Not being free to drink and drive has little to do a communist or fascist mentallity.
You stay well big guy.
It is sad that a serious event like this and others, should devolve into the usual bickering between rights and responsibilities. There is one simple fact that must exist. We are getting more and more people enjoying fewer resources. Either we act civilized and restrict our indulgences to that which is in the best interests of the herd, or we devolve into chaos, where every one of us does what we want, how we want, and when we want.
Think of how quiet and secluded the lakes of thirty years ago were, in relationship to how they are today. Think about the recreation areas, the beaches, the roads, etc. Those days are gone. And we must adapt to the times. The need to be more sober, to drive slower, and to pay more attention to others is here. Since there is a problem with those who choose to ignore being considerate, it is often necessary to make rules to get the point across. And even more so, there is a need to enforce those rules. Rules have no meaning without enforcement. But over enforcement is a police state.
Very well put Seadog

Ultracrazy
08-07-2007, 07:20 PM
It's my opinion that what you said about Waynes kids was in bad taste. You are one of those people that speaks their mind, that's great, just don't get upset when people don't agree with it. All this drinking and boating talk has become a big pissing match, which no one will win.
I've read your posts and I understand your point. The FACTS are that there are laws in place already, whether you agree with them or not doesn't really mean much. I agree 100% that everyone is responsible for their own actions. There are no ACCIDENTS, things happen because something caused it to happen.
Bingo

Marty Gras
08-07-2007, 08:13 PM
It seems to me that after reading many of the posts here and many others on this site, the most dangerous menace on this river is "BWS"! I feel that if a 'special machine' could be built to test for "BWS", just like the "breathalizer" tests for alcohol, we would have a much safer place. Yet, after reading many comments here, I also feel that the LEO's will really have a hard time "testing" all those who need to be tested for "BWS". (boating while stupid) For anyone to actually post thoughts like; larger,(or smaller) faster, more costly boats "have the right a way" seems to validate my point! Then there was the guy who said to me, "if you have a fast boat you will crash, sooner or later, it will happen". Shows (at least to me) that "this Hot Boat comunity" has a long hard road to go, when teaching the BASICS of high performance boat operation and care. It also strikes me that the local Havasu paper always interjects the comment, "alcohol may have been involved" when they report a powerboat accident on the river or lake. I have NEVER READ that any other cause "may be involved" just booze. Does the local paper ever ask if "BWS" was a factor in a boating accident? Or is the reporter, RWS (reporting while stupid)? Saturdays on Lake Havasu are quickly becoming, "a day at the coliseum"? You know, the christians VS the lions. or Lucky VS the brainless.

Goad
08-08-2007, 01:11 PM
For those who are curious to the details of the incident that happend in topock...you can follow it on the link below. Before you click, please be aware that the person who posted is a "friend of a friend" of the driver. The friend of the driver emailed him the details of the accident. I am not trying to discredit the poster, just saying the details are not proven fact.
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,1340.msg15916.html#msg15916
I did not post this in the thread about the young life was lost in respect to the family/friends who are posting in there mourning their loss.
wether anyone is right or wrong, no one wins in this whole ordeal. everyone be safe out there.
-Brad

riverbound
08-08-2007, 01:42 PM
For those who are curious to the details of the incident that happend in topock...you can follow it on the link below. Before you click, please be aware that the person who posted is a "friend of a friend" of the driver. The friend of the driver emailed him the details of the accident. I am not trying to discredit the poster, just saying the details are not proven fact.
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,1340.msg15916.html#msg15916
I did not post this in the thread about the young life was lost in respect to the family/friends who are posting in there mourning their loss.
wether anyone is right or wrong, no one wins in this whole ordeal. everyone be safe out there.
-Brad
that sucks :(
In respect to the family I will keep my comments re: the accident to myself. :idea:

squirt'nmyload
08-08-2007, 01:51 PM
that sucks :(
In respect to the family I will keep my comments re: the accident to myself. :idea:
i read that over on socaljetboats.......i have alot of comments and questions also but i guess i should save them for a later time.

riverbound
08-08-2007, 01:58 PM
i read that over on socaljetboats.......i have alot of comments and questions also but i guess i should save them for a later time.
Probaly a smart idea. ;)

BADBLOWN572
08-08-2007, 02:33 PM
It all comes down to personal responsiblity, but I do believe that sometimes things get WAY blown out of proportion with regards to alcohol. As MANY people on these boards can testify to, I NEVER EVER have ANY alcohol in my system when I am operating a boat. If the boat is in operating condition, my blood alcohol level is ZERO. Once the keys are out of the boat or the boat is on the trailer, I will drink, but not until. :)
With that being said, I know one person who was in an accident down in Blythe where a jet ski "T Boned" their boat. He had to put her in the boat and take her to be air lifted to the hospital. At that point in time, he spoke to the police and gave a statement. The officer also took his BAC and it was at .06%. It turns out that the girl on the jet ski learned what she was doing the day before. She had never been to the river and was inexperienced. My friend had grown up on the river & knew exactly what he was doing. Because my friend was at .06%, and there were no additional witnesses, their insurance company paid out the injured girl. They said that it would be cheaper to pay her out than defend it in court. Simply because he blew a .06% BAC. :(
Alcohol IS one factor that definitely effects judgment & ability, however it is not the only thing! I would personally rather be in a boat with someone EXPERIENCED, who has had 2 beers, rather than someone who is just learning how to boat. Anything more than those two beers, my opinion MAY change! I do not pass judgment on anyone who is RESPONSIBLE while drinking and drinks in MODERATION. Society has just made it seem irresponsible, negligant, careless, etc... to operate a vehicle with ANY alcohol in their system.
If they are impared, NAIL THEM!!! Make them pay for what they have done! If they are not impared, don't let it be a determining factor! They were operating within the confines of the law. :) Having a legal amount of alcohol in your system does not mean that you are guilty!!!
Just my .02 coming from someone who is 99% of the time a designated driver (often for people on these boards)!

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 02:54 PM
Let me ask a perfectly logical question in this thread..
How many of you have taken a boating safety course, and actually know the rules of navigation? (not counting you Boatcop :D)
Don't you think that might be just as important as not drinking? Do you think that if both people stayed to the right (oncoming) that any of this would've happened to begin with?
Do you think if Kilrtoy (whom's as sober as a church mouse) knew half as much as he thinks he knows about running a boat that his thread would've been posted?
Why not have some SELF RESPONSIBILLITY, and SELF ACCOUNTABILLITY and go learn something before you just randomly condemn every single incident out on the water to OUI? I hate to keep bringing up Kilr's deal, but since it's fresh and everyone knows about.. He posted that thread dead ass convinced he was in the right. I've thought about it 6 ways to sunday and have come to the conclusion that he musta done something terribly wrong to end up like he did.. And sadly enough so did the other 2 drivers as well. Which makes it 3 for 3 performance boaters that made the most basic of basic mistakes in one INCIDENT!
What does booze have to do with any of that? Answer nothing.. Yet if one was drunk and went the correct way and ther others collided into his ass though.. You can bet the armchair quarterbacks and the "BADD" Nazi's would be all over his ass, saying he oughta swing from a tree..
RD
Dave you have some great points & you are absolutely right...there are other factors not always BUI, however, in this case of the beautiful child who lost her life...DUI WAS one factor. Can we change the fate? No....but if we could all just start the process...it is one life maybe even two...that may be saved. ;)
As for the other things....I think people should have to take a boaters safety course...absolutely! I also think that excessive speed with these hot rod boats & hot rod attitudes is also stupid & putting everyone on the water at risk...........but unfortunately....alot of people think they have something to prove when out on the water.:(

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 02:55 PM
It all comes down to personal responsiblity, but I do believe that sometimes things get WAY blown out of proportion with regards to alcohol. As MANY people on these boards can testify to, I NEVER EVER have ANY alcohol in my system when I am operating a boat. If the boat is in operating condition, my blood alcohol level is ZERO. Once the keys are out of the boat or the boat is on the trailer, I will drink, but not until. :)
With that being said, I know one person who was in an accident down in Blythe where a jet ski "T Boned" their boat. He had to put her in the boat and take her to be air lifted to the hospital. At that point in time, he spoke to the police and gave a statement. The officer also took his BAC and it was at .06%. It turns out that the girl on the jet ski learned what she was doing the day before. She had never been to the river and was inexperienced. My friend had grown up on the river & knew exactly what he was doing. Because my friend was at .06%, and there were no additional witnesses, their insurance company paid out the injured girl. They said that it would be cheaper to pay her out than defend it in court. Simply because he blew a .06% BAC. :(
Alcohol IS one factor that definitely effects judgment & ability, however it is not the only thing! I would personally rather be in a boat with someone EXPERIENCED, who has had 2 beers, rather than someone who is just learning how to boat. Anything more than those two beers, my opinion MAY change! I do not pass judgment on anyone who is RESPONSIBLE while drinking and drinks in MODERATION. Society has just made it seem irresponsible, negligant, careless, etc... to operate a vehicle with ANY alcohol in their system.
If they are impared, NAIL THEM!!! Make them pay for what they have done! If they are not impared, don't let it be a determining factor! They were operating within the confines of the law. :) Having a legal amount of alcohol in your system does not mean that you are guilty!!!
Just my .02 coming from someone who is 99% of the time a designated driver (often for people on these boards)!
;) ;) ;) Nicely put hun.

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:03 PM
For those who are curious to the details of the incident that happend in topock...you can follow it on the link below. Before you click, please be aware that the person who posted is a "friend of a friend" of the driver. The friend of the driver emailed him the details of the accident. I am not trying to discredit the poster, just saying the details are not proven fact.
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,1340.msg15916.html#msg15916
I did not post this in the thread about the young life was lost in respect to the family/friends who are posting in there mourning their loss.
wether anyone is right or wrong, no one wins in this whole ordeal. everyone be safe out there.
-Brad
B, thanks for posting this...............I am absolutely torn between these two boats! I am so sad to see that one would operate their vessel being so intoxicated....I also am so irritated with the sober driver whom chose to drive on the WRONG side of the river! WTH is wrong with everyone? These were two bad decisions made by grown adults whom know better & cost the life of a beautiful girl...not to mention all the others injured & the emotional pain all will endure from it!:( :( :(
Can I just say it drives me absolutely bonkers when I see the wrong sided drivers on the water...Im always screaming at them to move to the other side!:mad: We do not live in another country...............drive on the right side of the water!:mad: :mad: :mad:
Thanks for posting this...I will be boating very cautiously this weekend!;)

BADBLOWN572
08-08-2007, 03:07 PM
I also think that excessive speed with these hot rod boats & hot rod attitudes is also stupid & putting everyone on the water at risk...........but unfortunately....alot of people think they have something to prove when out on the water.:(
That also goes back to personal responsiblity as well as proper judgment. Having a 100mph rocket is a lot of fun if used properly and the proper respect is given to that toy. :) The operator is responsible for his boat, observing proper navigational techniques, using good judgment, and the safety of those in & around the boat. Unfortunately a lot of the owners do not know how to properly handle their boats & want to show off. :( This can be said of a $1,500 boat all the way up to a $1M boat. It all goes back to the operator using proper judgment. :)
;) ;) ;) Nicely put hun.
Thank you!!!! :) :) :)

Dave C
08-08-2007, 03:08 PM
actually it may mean that one is screwed in this scenario. I am not sure what the break point but there is an implication of guilt if you have alcohol in your system and are involved in an accident.
maybe boat cop can answer this one.
I think Cali law is setup to screw someone up in this scenario
If they are not impared, don't let it be a determining factor! They were operating within the confines of the law. :) Having a legal amount of alcohol in your system does not mean that you are guilty!!!
)!

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:10 PM
That also goes back to personal responsiblity as well as proper judgment. Having a 100mph rocket is a lot of fun if used properly and the proper respect is given to that toy. :) The operator is responsible for his boat, observing proper navigational techniques, using good judgment, and the safety of those in & around the boat. Unfortunately a lot of the owners do not know how to properly handle their boats & want to show off. :( This can be said of a $1,500 boat all the way up to a $1M boat. It all goes back to the operator using proper judgment. :)
Thank you!!!! :) :) :)
You are right babe....absolutely right.;) Just hurts my heart to read crap like this, ya know.:(

squirt'nmyload
08-08-2007, 03:12 PM
B, thanks for posting this...............I am absolutely torn between these two boats! I am so sad to see that one would operate their vessel being so intoxicated....I also am so irritated with the sober driver whom chose to drive on the WRONG side of the river! WTH is wrong with everyone? These were two bad decisions made by grown adults whom know better & cost the life of a beautiful girl...not to mention all the others injured & the emotional pain all will endure from it!:( :( :(
Can I just say it drives me absolutely bonkers when I see the wrong sided drivers on the water...Im always screaming at them to move to the other side!:mad: We do not live in another country...............drive on the right side of the water!:mad: :mad: :mad:
Thanks for posting this...I will be boating very cautiously this weekend!;)
the way i read it was the "sober" driver was heading the proper way and the "drunk" guy was headed the "wrong" way because he couldn't see becuase of the sun. i don't know how either of them didn't see each other and literally drive right into one another
and yes, i hate the wrong way drivers too....they are all over the phx lakes

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:22 PM
the way i read it was the "sober" driver was heading the proper way and the "drunk" guy was headed the "wrong" way because he couldn't see becuase of the sun. i don't know how either of them didn't see each other and literally drive right into one another
and yes, i hate the wrong way drivers too....they are all over the phx lakes
Im sorry....Im such an emotional pregnant mess...Did I read it wrong?:( :confused: Anyways...I think it could've been avoided all together.:(

Goad
08-08-2007, 03:25 PM
Im sorry....Im such an emotional pregnant mess...Did I read it wrong?:( :confused: Anyways...I think it could've been avoided all together.:(
the way I read it (yes, its confusing) is that the impaired driver was driving on the wrong side of the waterway, but veered right (the right way) and the sober driver veered left (the wrong way)

Mrs.Racer277
08-08-2007, 03:27 PM
B, thanks for posting this...............I am absolutely torn between these two boats! I am so sad to see that one would operate their vessel being so intoxicated....I also am so irritated with the sober driver whom chose to drive on the WRONG side of the river! WTH is wrong with everyone? These were two bad decisions made by grown adults whom know better & cost the life of a beautiful girl...not to mention all the others injured & the emotional pain all will endure from it!:( :( :(
Can I just say it drives me absolutely bonkers when I see the wrong sided drivers on the water...Im always screaming at them to move to the other side!:mad: We do not live in another country...............drive on the right side of the water!:mad: :mad: :mad:
Thanks for posting this...I will be boating very cautiously this weekend!;)
I just read the tox results are not back....And remember zero tollerance in AZ so 1 beer and you are at fault. Pixie read the last news article posted on that thread?????

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:31 PM
I just read the tox results are not back....And remember zero tollerance in AZ so 1 beer and you are at fault. Pixie read the last news article posted on that thread?????
Someone from the family ( I think) said the other driver was arrested..& alcohol was one relating factor.:( So sad....:(

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:32 PM
the way I read it (yes, its confusing) is that the impaired driver was driving on the wrong side of the waterway, but veered right (the right way) and the sober driver veered left (the wrong way)
Ahhhhh......:idea: :( :( :(

squirt'nmyload
08-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Im sorry....Im such an emotional pregnant mess...Did I read it wrong?:( :confused: Anyways...I think it could've been avoided all together.:(
then my best wishes go to your husband :D :D definately sounds like it could've been avoided if someone had some SA :D

Boatcop
08-08-2007, 03:39 PM
I just read the tox results are not back....And remember zero tollerance in AZ so 1 beer and you are at fault. Pixie read the last news article posted on that thread?????
That's not true.
I've investigated several collisions where the at fault party was sober, and the other boat operator was impaired. The sober person was charged with violation of applicable navigation rules. My reports reflect precisely who and what caused the accident.
But. The impaired person was also charged with OUI and arrested. Driving while impaired is a crime, in and of itself.
Whether the impairment played a part in the outcome can't be proved, but we have to wonder whether or not he could have done something in time to avoid the accident, if he was sober.
Impairment doesn't automatically make one at fault in an accident. At least not in the Criminal arena. Now in civil actions it's a different story. Civil juries tend to take a dim view of drinking and driving. And will most often award damages to the sober party, regardless of who was at fault.
That's why insurance companies tend to quickly settle in an accident where their insured was impaired or drinking. That is if they even cover them at all. Most policies state that they will not provide coverage when the insured is under the influence of alcohol.

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:39 PM
then my best wishes go to your husband :D :D definately sounds like it could've been avoided if someone had some SA :D
LOL!:D Thanks, I needed that....;) Ya know...I have been boating and driving on the waterways from Blythe all the way up to Mead....;) Not a stretch I havent been on....I grew up on the river. From a lil Jet boat to my lil 24' Cheetah....& I guess the common sense was instilled on me all these years. My husband, he started river going back in the late 80's to Parker for the typical Party scene ( we have ALL done it);) & things have changed. Boats are bigger & hard liquor, rather than a good ole fasion beer, is now the choice cocktail on the water.:( Im not innocent to this...I too have partied my brains til puking on the river............but knowledge of the waterways or not...I wouldn't risk my life, my families, or fellow boaters by my driving. Just a risk I am not willing to take. ( besides...it is no fun chumming in 120 degree heat!)

Cole Trickle
08-08-2007, 03:40 PM
Im sorry....Im such an emotional pregnant mess...Did I read it wrong?:( :confused: Anyways...I think it could've been avoided all together.:(
I think you read it correctly. From what I got the intoxicated driver was on the correct side of the river and the other person was on the wrong side looking into the sun.:)
Sad event:(
Unfortunatley the guy that blew a .18 is screwed no matter if it was the other drivers error.

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:43 PM
I think you read it correctly. From what I got the intoxicated driver was on the correct side of the river and the other person was on the wrong side looking into the sun.:)
Sad event:(
Unfortunatley the guy that blew a .18 is screwed no matter if it was the other drivers error.
:( :( :(

pixilatedpussy
08-08-2007, 03:47 PM
Everyone be safe out there.;) :) I am off to soccer practice with my beautiful boys, then we will be on our way to the river. Hope to see some of you there. Pixi

HM
08-08-2007, 04:03 PM
It all comes down to personal responsiblity, but I do believe that sometimes things get WAY blown out of proportion with regards to alcohol. As MANY people on these boards can testify to, I NEVER EVER have ANY alcohol in my system when I am operating a boat. If the boat is in operating condition, my blood alcohol level is ZERO. Once the keys are out of the boat or the boat is on the trailer, I will drink, but not until. :)
With that being said, I know one person who was in an accident down in Blythe where a jet ski "T Boned" their boat. He had to put her in the boat and take her to be air lifted to the hospital. At that point in time, he spoke to the police and gave a statement. The officer also took his BAC and it was at .06%. It turns out that the girl on the jet ski learned what she was doing the day before. She had never been to the river and was inexperienced. My friend had grown up on the river & knew exactly what he was doing. Because my friend was at .06%, and there were no additional witnesses, their insurance company paid out the injured girl. They said that it would be cheaper to pay her out than defend it in court. Simply because he blew a .06% BAC. :(
Alcohol IS one factor that definitely effects judgment & ability, however it is not the only thing! I would personally rather be in a boat with someone EXPERIENCED, who has had 2 beers, rather than someone who is just learning how to boat. Anything more than those two beers, my opinion MAY change! I do not pass judgment on anyone who is RESPONSIBLE while drinking and drinks in MODERATION. Society has just made it seem irresponsible, negligant, careless, etc... to operate a vehicle with ANY alcohol in their system.
If they are impared, NAIL THEM!!! Make them pay for what they have done! If they are not impared, don't let it be a determining factor! They were operating within the confines of the law. :) Having a legal amount of alcohol in your system does not mean that you are guilty!!!
Just my .02 coming from someone who is 99% of the time a designated driver (often for people on these boards)!
Good Post. And you didn't have to jump the shark. :D

sheba
08-23-2007, 09:32 AM
For those who are curious to the details of the incident that happend in topock...you can follow it on the link below. Before you click, please be aware that the person who posted is a "friend of a friend" of the driver. The friend of the driver emailed him the details of the accident. I am not trying to discredit the poster, just saying the details are not proven fact.
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,1340.msg15916.html#msg15916
I did not post this in the thread about the young life was lost in respect to the family/friends who are posting in there mourning their loss.
wether anyone is right or wrong, no one wins in this whole ordeal. everyone be safe out there.
-Brad
Many people are going back and forth about alcohol and inexperienced or irresonsible boat drivers being the major factor in most boating accidents... The point is wether the accident is alcohol related or due to inexperienced/irresonsible boat drivers both things still take lives... People need to start thinking of others, how their decisions are going to affect others, and not just think about themselves... Wether it is going as fast as possible on the river, partying with your friends and the right to drink, inexperience, showing off, or being distracted by other things... Everything affects other boaters in some way shape or forum... Think before you act, treat others as you would want to be treated...
I read the information on the website above and I believe the information is incorrect... The Driver suspected of being intoxicated was the one on the wrong side of the river not the sober driver. This was a combination of intoxication and irresponsible boat driving by the same driver... The intoxicated driver turned into the boat carrying the little girl according the what is below... See below for a newspaper quote...
Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:37 PM PDT
NEEDLES - A 10-year-old girl from Temecula, Calif., is dead after the boat she was in collided head-on with another boat on the Colorado River Saturday afternoon. Alcohol is believed to have played a part in the accident.
The deck-style boat Sara Margiotta was traveling in along with about 10 other people was northbound on the Arizona side of the river about 1/2 mile south of the I-40 bridge when it was approached by an open bow V-hull boat carrying about three people and headed in the opposite direction on the same side of the river, said Sgt. Mike Fassari, who leads the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department marine enforcement unit.
As opposed to Arizona, California law does not require watercraft to travel on a specific side of a waterway.
However, federal navigation rules state that two boats approaching each other head-on should both turn right in order to avoid a collision, Fassari said. According to the report, the deck-style boat turned right and the V-hull boat turned left.
“So they were mirroring each other until they collided,” he said.

Trailer Park Casanova
08-23-2007, 09:45 AM
What's the latest on this accident?
Toxicology test results of the drivers were pending.
Any news?

sheba
08-23-2007, 09:53 AM
Not sure:( ... Anyone out there have the latest?

LAFD
08-23-2007, 10:51 AM
when i go boating im the one who drives. and threw out the day i have maybe 3 beers at the most and thats threw out about 8 hours out on the water. everyone else is getting smashed and just hammered and ill have my one beer and than a water. it doesnt bother me not getting plastered i think there should be a sober person on the boat in case something happens via a fight, break down, some kinda emergency someone needs to have a level head. when the boat is docked or trailered thats when i start drinking. theres no reason why one cant have one or two beers. it all really depends on tolerances. some can have 6 beers and feel fine while someone has 2 and there buzzed. its all in moderation.

sheba
09-19-2007, 11:40 AM
Hello Everyone,
Some of you have heard of Sara Margiotta (www.saramargiotta.org) the 10 year old girl that was taken from this world in a head on boating collision on August 4, 2007 on the Colorado River in the Topock/Havisu area.
My name is Erica and I was on the boat that Sara was on when the tragedy
happened. First I would like to thank each and every one of you for your kind words, thoughts, prayers, support, and encouragement to the family and friends. It means so much...
I wanted to extend the following information to all of our new friends
and for those who want to support the efforts of safer boating. In early
November 2007, Sara's family and friends will be holding the First
Annual Sara's Way Golf Benefit, dinner and auction in Temecula, CA. The
details are still being finalized, but for those of you who would like
more information regarding the Golf Tournament, please e-mail me
(sheba144@hotmail.com) your contact information and I would be happy to
send you the details, which will be finalized by next week.
Sara's Way is a not-for profit organization that is currently in the
final stages of being set up in Sara's name by family and friends. I
would also love to share more information regarding Sara's Way for those
who are interested. Let's make a difference. It is said that actions
speak louder than words, so let's act... Thank you all again for your
support and I look forward to hearing from all of you.

sheba
09-20-2007, 09:36 AM
Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to let you know I have created a new thread regarding the event I mentioned under Sara's Way 1st Annual Golf Benefit/Dinner/Auction (Killed 8/4/07 in Topock area).
Hope to see all of you who can come there! I will post information on this site as we continue to plan and execute it.
Thank you again to everyone!