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Froggystyle
08-07-2007, 04:30 PM
Remind me of something George Carlin once said. "Have you ever noticed, when you're driving, that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a "maniac"? "
I know everyone has an easy time trying to bang on people driving a different way than they do, but in the teams we learned a very important lesson.... "If you are the only one right... you are wrong".
I wish the folks I see out on the water would just pretend for a minute that there are other people out there. One of the reasons I tend to drive my boat, ride my motorcycle or drive my car "aggressively" is for the predictability of it. If you are passing people, they have little opportunity to hang out in your blind spot and turn into you. You are moving along, and as such can be through and around potential problems better than most can.
The most dangerous thing I see out there are people driving slowly and cluelessly, feeling irrationally that their slow speed means they can pretty much do whatever they want. Same with anchoring in an unsafe area, floating in a traffic stream, making violent turns to slow down, etc...
Another term I will coin from my time in the service is "Situational Awareness". I find that when moving right along, I tend to be very, very focused on what I am doing, and have a heightened amount of situational awareness, truncated to "SA" for those in the know.
Flame on, but I think that lollygagging in a congested area, driving on the wrong side of the river, putting yourself in a head-on condition with ANYTHING let alone another boat or making aggressive turns with no apparent consideration for other traffic is the most dangerous combination of boating faults on the water. I have found that most of the time something like that has been observed by me, it was someone just tooling around cluelessly, and rarely involved a high performance boat moving out.
So, to be serious for a minute, what do you all classify as the #1 most dangerous thing you can do on the water? Drinking and driving doesn't count. That isn't unsafe on it's own, it fosters a situation where you do unsafe things. What I am asking is, what is the most unsafe thing you can do on the water, regardless of sobriety?
My answer is simple. Anything unexpected. A right turn out of nowhere, coming to a complete stop for no reason, dropping off a ski rope in traffic because your arms are tired, doing a 360 on a Jet Ski in traffic, darting out perpendicular to the shoreline on a river, turning across traffic. You name it, 9 times out of 10 the most dangerous things you can do in my book are based in unpredictability, not illegality.
One of my basic rules of boating involves the concept that you should never take the right of way, only give it.
Nobody wants to be dead right.
To recap the question, "what is the most unsafe thing you can do on the water, regardless of sobriety?"

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Most dangerous thing? http://www.***boat.com/ubb/graemlins/idea_2.gif
One time, I tried to take the beer cooler away from RiverDave. That was pretty focked up.

Froggystyle
08-07-2007, 04:38 PM
Most dangerous thing? http://www.***boat.com/ubb/graemlins/idea_2.gif
One time, I tried to take the beer cooler away from RiverDave. That was pretty focked up.
I said dangerous, not suicidal dude... :D
I'm suprised you didn't pull back a bloody stump!

Lavey5150
08-07-2007, 04:41 PM
Nobody wants to be dead right.
To recap the question, "what is the most unsafe thing you can do on the water, regardless of sobriety?"[/QUOTE]
Ride a Water Couch (Lake Lice).................

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 04:46 PM
I hate to be serious but I will throw down a little.
When I was 15 years old, I was skiing with a buddy. No spotter. It was the middle of the week, there wasn't another boat on the entire lake, and we were in the middle, alternating between swimming, skiing, and sitting in the boat until our skin caught fire.
On one of my buddy's trick ski runs, I remember looking down, just outside the boat, to see a swimmer.... in the middle of the lake.... about 15 feet from the boat. The first I saw of the swimmer was when he was right beside the boat. It really freaked me out.
We went and talked with the swimmer. He was swimming across the lake, about 2 miles. It was mid-week and it was something to do. He said he saw us there but didn't think much of it.
I used to swim way out into the lake too but stopped after that event.

jbtrailerjim
08-07-2007, 04:48 PM
In my mind, the most dagerous manuever while underway boating, is to not look over your shoulder or behind you when you are going to be turning to the right or left. I've been cut off far too many times by drivers who just don't look around before they make a turn to the right or left when I'm overtaking them. I know they have the right of way but to me it seems like it would be just common sense to look around before you decide to change your line.

bear down
08-07-2007, 04:52 PM
Great post! It is all about "SA"...I have been boating/driving for 7 years now and every year I learn something. When I drive I prepare for the worst. I try to assume the boater never see's me and that he will make a sudden turn in to my path...If I see a boat ahead of me I look to see if his view is blocked from a passenger and put myself in a position to be seen, either by passing him or next to him. If I see a flag raised in a boat, I slow down to 20-30mph (planning speed) wave to the boat so that they see me and I break either right or left. I don't have rear view mirrors on the boat, so I tend to have a habit of looking to each side pretty often. If I see a boat from a distance coming head on, I make a tight change of direction so he knows I see him, I don't play chicken and wait for him to make the first move. I am a defensive driver by nature (I drive a lot) and this has kept me really safe on the roads and on the water....Even when I don't need to watch for other boaters because the lake is pretty empty, I still do...Just to make a good habit of it, just in case something does happen I react on instinct...Just be aware of your surrondings.

Xlration Marine
08-07-2007, 04:58 PM
In my mind, the most dagerous manuever while underway boating, is to not look over your shoulder or behind you when you are going to be turning to the right or left. I've been cut off far too many times by drivers who just don't look around before they make a turn to the right or left when I'm overtaking them. I know they have the right of way but to me it seems like it would be just common sense to look around before you decide to change your line.
I agree, this is what I see the most of. Had a dude or dud? Any way he was looking over his right sholder and turning left, into my path. I get this every time I go out. You would think that when they pay to use the ramp some one there would make sure the driver has his head out of his azz before letting him on the lake or river.

beaverretriever
08-07-2007, 05:04 PM
I will drink a Miller Chill to that Wes!!1:)

LHC30Victory
08-07-2007, 05:05 PM
Wes, you are right on target with that post in somuch as a good offense is the best defense. I also agree that unexpected movements and movements that have no apparent reason are the most dangerous on land and also at sea. However, I believe that rules of navigation and physics differ on the water to some extent. This is in part because of the changing water surface that tends to keep operators focused forward and to the sides, but rarely rearward, and because of the lack of braking ability. Even when on land, overtaking is a risky business and the person overtaking the "lolygagger" holds the responsibility to gauge correctly - even allowing for those sudden "senseless" moves to port or starbord....
And another thing, quit posting the agressive mindset secrets :D

ol guy
08-07-2007, 05:05 PM
The most dangerous thing anyone can do on a boat is assume everyone else see's you. I have stated this in other threads, And now I'll do it again, 30 plus years boating and no accidents and always looked around and at other boaters as if they had no clue I was there. Saved my a$$ to many times The drinking issue has been beat to the dirt and won't go there.

ratso
08-07-2007, 05:10 PM
The most dangerous thing anyone can do on a boat is assume everyone else see's you. I have stated this in other threads, And now I'll do it again, 30 plus years boating and no accidents and always looked around and at other boaters as if they had no clue I was there. Saved my a$$ to many times The drinking issue has been beat to the dirt and won't go there.
Everyone does if you're in a DCB...:D

Froggystyle
08-07-2007, 05:19 PM
BTW... before my PM's fill up with clarification requests, I am talking about exceeding the traffic speed by 10-15 mph. That is what I mean by "moving along" for anyone concerned.
I think ESPECIALLY if you are going slowly you need to be way over to the side, and allowing everyone else to proceed at a medium pace ( :D ) and not congest the situation any further.
Don't get me started on tubers driving around in the basin in front of Sand Point. You know who you are, and what you are doing is placing the lives of the people on the tube, other boaters and yourself in danger by driving around in circles in a known high-speed traffic zone. I am usually clipping through there at better than 85 mph, and there is always some jackass driving perpendicular to river flow acting indignant because he is towing his kids behind him and thinks everyone else should slow down.
Go find a cove, or find a better hobby. You are playing "tag" with your kids on a freeway. Dangerous, stupid and oblivious.

Rexone
08-07-2007, 05:23 PM
I normally just put it on kill at 63 and move right along. Anyone who can't keep up better be gettin outta my way.

ol guy
08-07-2007, 05:51 PM
Ratso. not a DCB

Boatcop
08-07-2007, 06:49 PM
You hit the nail right on the head with "Situational Awareness", Wes.
I think I'm pretty safe in saying that I have more wheel time, in more different types of boats, than just about anyone on here. In 35 years of pleasure boating and work related boating, I've piloted just about everything including PWCs, 12 foot Avon RHIs, 30', 31', 40', 41', 44' Coast Guard Rescue Boats, a 65' Harbor Tug, 82' Patrol Boat, 16' outboards, 18-20'-24' foot day cruisers, 18-21' aluminum jets, 12' - 27' Boston Whalers, 36' landing craft, surf boats, life boats. On all kinds of waters. Lakes, rivers, oceans, bays, ship canals, breaking surf at the Colombia River mouth. In all kinds of conditions. Wind, fog, sun, rain, snow, sleet, icebergs, Green Peace protests, enemy attack (OK, drill only. Wes, I hope it wasn't you I shot when the Seal Team was trying to invade the San Diego Air Station :D)
Well. You get the idea.
In those thousands of hours, I have never put myself in a situation where a collision was imminent.
Why?
Because I know exactly where every boat within my sight is, and what they are doing. Be it in front of me, in back of me, or on either side. EVERY boat within my sight.
I am confident in my boat handling abilities, and in my knowledge of Navigation Rules and proper actions of vessels in sight of one another.
But the key to my success is also realizing that not everyone knows those Rules, nor will abide by them. I treat every boat or PWC out there like they are going to turn right onto my course, stop in front of me, or come shooting out of a cove or the shoreline. Since I am expecting it, I am prepared to act and take what ever evasive action necessary to avoid a collision. Whether that action is altering course, or the simplest thing of all. Draw back on the throttle(s).
If you expect everyone to cut in front of you, it won't catch you off guard when they do.
THAT'S Situational Awareness.

Tom Brown
08-07-2007, 07:14 PM
I think I'm pretty safe in saying that I have more wheel time, in more different types of boats, than just about anyone on here. In 35 years of pleasure boating and work related boating, I've piloted just about everything including PWCs, 12 foot Avon RHIs, 30', 31', 40', 41', 44' Coast Guard Rescue Boats, a 65' Harbor Tug, 82' Patrol Boat, 16' outboards, 18-20'-24' foot day cruisers, 18-21' aluminum jets, 12' - 27' Boston Whalers, 36' landing craft, surf boats, life boats. On all kinds of waters. Lakes, rivers, oceans, bays, ship canals, breaking surf at the Colombia River mouth. In all kinds of conditions. Wind, fog, sun, rain, snow, sleet, icebergs, Green Peace protests, enemy attack.....
I'd say you are safe to boat at .40 BAC.

MKEELINE
08-07-2007, 07:23 PM
I'd say you are safe to boat at .40 BAC.
In a hypothetical world your good as gold.;)

LOWRIVER2
08-07-2007, 07:30 PM
Situational Awareness, otherwise known as EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED
Good points to bring up, words to live by in ANY critical situation.
You either gain it, use it, or you let life toss you around without it.
Good to see you are still locked on Wes, even after all the resin fumes/ lol.
When you bringing that dual jet down to Lost Lake?

ol guy
08-07-2007, 07:42 PM
Be aware of everyone around you and act as they don't see you and it will be a good day on the water.

vmjtc3
08-07-2007, 07:56 PM
The most unsafe thing you can do on the water is assume anyone on the water has a focking clue of what they are doing!!!:idea:

Rexone
08-07-2007, 07:58 PM
Since I am expecting it, I am prepared to act and take what ever evasive action necessary to avoid a collision. Whether that action is altering course, or the simplest thing of all. Draw back on the throttle(s).
Alan what's your view on spinnin it into the reeds? :)
Weak humor attempt to lighten a couple days of real depressing posts

Boatcop
08-07-2007, 08:03 PM
Alan what's your view on spinnin it into the reeds? :)
Weak humor attempt to lighten a couple days of real depressing posts
I believe the official report would contain the phrase "loss of situational awareness".
Sometimes weak humor is just what the doctor ordered

Rexone
08-07-2007, 08:20 PM
I believe the official report would contain the phrase "loss of situational awareness".
Sometimes weak humor is just what the doctor ordered
:D

Jordy
08-07-2007, 08:38 PM
I believe the official report would contain the phrase "loss of situational awareness".
Sometimes weak humor is just what the doctor ordered
I've heard about that, especially when combined with an over abundant feeling of personal self importance based upon the situational watercraft. :idea: :D
jordy <----- always calls it as I see it, just like the doctor ordered. :D

Big Inch
08-07-2007, 11:35 PM
Hands down. The most dangerous thing I ever did on the water was ride a stand-up jet ski back from the sandbar on a holiday weekend. I didn't ride this up there but the person that did drank too much and would of never made it back alive so someone took my boat back and I took the ski. To top it all off my boat didn't even wait with me they just gunned it back to Havasu :mad: If the owner of the pontoon that picked me up floating in the middle of the lake and brought me and the ski back to shore is on here. Thank you ;) and to all those boaters that almost ran me over :crossx: This must of been close to 10 years ago and was the absolute worse thing I ever did in my life. I must of almost died about 182 times that day.

shueman
08-08-2007, 04:52 AM
Know Where They Are...Go Where They Ain't...;)

Rexone
08-08-2007, 02:32 PM
I believe the official report would contain the phrase "loss of situational awareness".
Sometimes weak humor is just what the doctor ordered
Here's a little visual Brown helped me put together
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/santareeds3.jpg