More global warming stupidity

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Go ahead, defend this crap ultra.
Walking does more than driving to cause global warming, a leading environmentalist (Chris Goodall) has calculated.
So, cars, and your boat, are not as bad as just swimming at the sand-bar, or walking down the dock to your boat.
TOWING your boat a mile to the river is better than walking without it. :eek:
Food production is now so energy-intensive that more carbon is emitted providing a person with enough calories to walk to the shops than a car would emit over the same distance. The climate could benefit if people avoided exercise, ate less and became couch potatoes.
The sums were done by Chris Goodall, campaigning author of How to Live a Low-Carbon Life.
Basically, driving a car 3 miles puts 2 pounds of CO2 into the atmosphere.
Walking 2 miles takes 180 callories, requiring 100 grams of beef, causing 8 pounds of CO2 to be put into the atmosphere, 4x as much.
What if, instead of beef, the walker drank a glass of milk? The average person would need to drink 420ml – three quarters of a pint – to recover the calories used in the walk. Modern dairy farming emits the equivalent of 1.2kg of CO2 to produce the milk, still more pollution than the car journey.
Here is more of your beloved "Global Warming "Science"" lunacy that you support ultra. Care to support THIS????????
Cattle farming is notorious for its perceived damage to the environment, based on what scientists politely call “methane production” from cows. The gas, released during the digestive process, is 21 times more harmful than CO2 . Organic beef is the most damaging because organic cattle emit more methane.
But, if I eat beef, and walk a mile, It's worse than driving a mile. !?!?!?!?? :confused:
Michael OÂ’Leary, boss of the airline Ryanair, has been widely derided after he was reported to have said that global warming could be solved by massacring the worldÂ’s cattle.
The food industry is estimated to be responsible for a sixth of an individualÂ’s carbon emissions.
So, what are you doing to reduce your "carbon footprint" in THIS area?
The ideal diet would consist of cereals and pulses. “This is a route which virtually nobody, apart from a vegan, is going to follow,” Mr Goodall said.
Whatever the heck a "pulse" is. :confused:
Here's someone who actually knows what he's talking about:
I do think we should all be really concerned about emissions - the truly corrosive ones that rain down upon us daily from assorted "experts", lobbyists, single-issue groups, eco warriors, opportunist politicians and so on.
There is rather too much "information" and not enough real knowledge being applied to this debate.
The only observable and uncontestable fact is that the climate changes. Always has and always will. We adapt or die - its what animals do.
What's so hard to understand about this.
There is soooo much more, but I'll save most of those for later. Here's a taste:
— Trees, regarded as shields against global warming because they absorb carbon, were found by German scientists to be major producers of methane, a much more harmful greenhouse gas
— Diesel trains in rural Britain are more polluting than 4x4 vehicles. Douglas Alexander, when Transport Secretary, said: “If ten or fewer people travel in a Sprinter [train], it would be less environmentally damaging to give them each a Land Rover Freelander and tell them to drive”

[ULTRA26 # 1]

That's not even discussion worthy.

[bigq]

How much more if you eat the beef, then walk the mile all while stopping every quarter mile to pass a stinky beef fart?:D :D

[Old Texan]

That's not even discussion worthy.
Yeah, nothing but "Junk Science".
"Junk Science 101"- Convenes daily at 6:00 and 11:00 PM EST with your Proffessor Al Gore. Supplementary data availalble on CD by Mr. Mikey Moore.:devil:
The 21st century version of the "World's Flat"........:rolleyes:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Somebody better become a vegan mushroom/couch potato. Gotta have someone cover up for MY carbon footprint.
Yesterday I ran 1.5 miles fiirst thing in the AM, along with about 30 other people, Then had a cheeseburger for lunch. :D
Almost forgot, a couple ounces of beef jerkey to support the system untill lunch too.
Ran another 3 miles (aprox.) yesterday evening, along with a dozen friends, followed by a few cold re-hydrations and a roast beef sandwich. :D
It was 101 here yesterday, heat index something akin to 106 or 107 if I remember correctly.

[Schiada76]

Was this supposed to make Smokin think you are smart?
You and Smokin are smarter and more intelligent than Gore? In your dreams.
Science by Smokin and Tex. Now there is a scary thought.
UHHHHHHHH even you are probably "smarter" than the Algore.
Why won't he debate anyone on the subject of global warming?
The guy has never been known for his intellect, check his school transcripts.:rolleyes:
He's gotten where he has through his daddy and Armand Hammer. You do know who Armand Hammer was don't you?
BTW Ultra there is a website offering $100,000.00 to anyone tht can prove humans are causing global warming. Maybe you can round up all of the Algores "facts" and win that pot.

[centerhill condor]

Somebody better become a vegan mushroom/couch potato. Gotta have someone cover up for MY carbon footprint.
Yesterday I ran 1.5 miles fiirst thing in the AM, along with about 30 other people, Then had a cheeseburger for lunch. :D
Almost forgot, a couple ounces of beef jerkey to support the system untill lunch too.
Ran another 3 miles (aprox.) yesterday evening, along with a dozen friends, followed by a few cold re-hydrations and a roast beef sandwich. :D
It was 101 here yesterday, heat index something akin to 106 or 107 if I remember correctly.
Smokin', you selfish miserable POS...how dare you excercise then brag about it! All those pounds of CO2 and then there's the added expense of extending your life!
All kiddin' aside...it reads as if these environmentals have finally jumped the shark. Time to make some koolaid there fellas!
Good post!
CC

[SmokinLowriderSS]

On OPRAH apparently yesterday.:idea:
He said that if we do not stop this now, in 45 years we will all be cooked to death.
The earth will be so hot that we will all be killed, IN 45 YEARS!:jawdrop:
Yea. Uh huh. Sure. You betcha. :rolleyes:
He's making more sense every time he opens his mouth.
You STILL believe him, ultra? :confused:

[centerhill condor]

I watched a few moments and noticed when her majesty showed a clip from another "expert" with an opposing point of view instead of taking issue with the science he took issue with the funding...how typically lib dem BS!
I honestly don't understand why we can't have a legitimate scientific debate.
CC

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Because it's a foregone conclusion. No reason to debate it.
At least, that's what the suporters say.:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Because it's a foregone conclusion. No reason to debate it.
At least, that's what the suporters say.:idea:
As do the non-supporters.
I agree with CC,
"I honestly don't understand why we can't have a legitimate scientific debate"

[never_fast_enuf]

Science has nothing to do with the "debate"
THAT is the problem. If it did, the debate would be over...there simply is NO man made global warming...period.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Science has nothing to do with the "debate"
THAT is the problem. If it did, the debate would be over...there simply is NO man made global warming...period.
Shhhhhhhhhhh!!
ultra is convinced there is.:
Based on the evidence, I believe that global warming is a matter of fact today. Because some argue scientific theory to the contrary doesn't make it any less real in my view.
ultra, 19 April, 2007 Post #20.
Of course, ultra won't debate it, because he "Don't have the time to debate details with you on the internet."

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Shhhhhhhhhhh!!
ultra is convinced there is.:
Based on the evidence, I believe that global warming is a matter of fact today. Because some argue scientific theory to the contrary doesn't make it any less real in my view.
ultra, 19 April, 2007 Post #20.
Of course, ultra won't debate it, because he "Don't have the time to debate details with you on the internet."
Smokin 116:1. Oh No. Don't you have some studying to do

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Smokin 116:1. Oh No. Don't you have some studying to do
Not NEARLY as much as you do.
Verified any good quotes lately?

[Kachina26]

That's not even discussion worthy.
Facts are bitch, aren't they?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

A bit more, Global Warming is causing the colapse of Gingerbread Houses in Scandanavia, and overweight moose in Norway.
I found those last year.
I can re-source them if you want ultra-investigator. :D

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Personal Carbon Load Calculator (http://reference.aol.com/planet-earth/global-warming/calculator)
I had 81,960 pounds annually, but it is WAY off.
It asked nothing about my sloppy, inefficiently carbureted big-block boat, nor did it allow me to list WOOD-BURNING as my Home Heating method. I had to punt and fake it using my optional all-electrical heat system.
Ok, WHO has a bigger "carbon footprint" than mine? :D :D :D

[ck7684]

Um...I may be wrong, but wasnt Greenland, as well as Iceland named by the vikings to confuse others and to keep them away??
Anyways, read this for some USEFUL information...
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm
http://www.sitewave.net/news/

[eliminatedsprinter]

Um...I may be wrong, but wasnt Greenland, as well as Iceland named by the vikings to confuse others and to keep them away??
Anyways, read this for some USEFUL information...
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm
http://www.sitewave.net/news/
Could be, since Iceland has been much warmer than Greenland for all of it's recorded history.

[Old Texan]

Excerpted from articles on the same referenced site by ck7684
http://www.sitewave.net/news/
Despite billions of dollars and millions of propaganda headlines, the global warming prophesied by the climate modelling industry is not scientifically real
A hoax is taking place in Canada. The recently (Dec. 2002) ratified Kyoto Accord/Protocol is the hoax. Top Federal government officials are the perpetrators. The citizens of Canada will be the victims. Their already high taxes will increase to buy ''carbon, green credits'' from poor, perhaps corrupt, regimes... and all oh so needlessly because the much lambasted scapegoat, carbon dioxide, CO2, is actually a good, clean, natural, and ecologically essential gas for life in the seas and on land.

[never_fast_enuf]

Anyone with even half of a working brain should be able to see the "man made global warming scam" for what it is...a scam to grab more of our hard earned money....

[soupersonic]

We have been coming out of an ice age for how many thousands of years now? :rolleyes:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Not sure, but it's been a while souper. :)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

1 June 2006:
Study: Global warming boosts poison ivy
WASHINGTON (AP) — Another reason to worry about global warming: more and itchier poison ivy.
The noxious vine grows faster and bigger as carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere rise, researchers report Monday...
Compared to poison ivy grown in usual atmospheric conditions, those exposed to the extra-high carbon dioxide grew about three times larger — and produced more allergenic form of urushiol, scientists from Duke and Harvard University reported. "...the shift toward a more allergenic form of urushiol have important implications for the future health of both humans and forests," the study concludes.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The current CARBON FOOTPRINT of California, now that large tracts of it are on fire, and destroying hundreds of square miles of carbon-sucking TREES at the same time as spewing thousands of tons of Carbon INTO THE ATMOSPHERE from said trees, homes, cars, etc?
Do ya think Al Gore has anyone at his company adding it up and prepping a bill to send to Gov. S for the "Carbon Offsets" he'll need to square it up and stop Man Made Global Warming?????
Welcome to the result of vanity, greed, and runaway environmentalism.
No controlled burning allowed to reduce the ammount of dead underbrush in the forrests, and when a natural fire starts, it CANNOT be controlled.
Of course, I THOUGHT we figured this out during the same "stop every single fire as soon as possible" policies of the Carter administration of the late 70's. I guess not.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The current CARBON FOOTPRINT of California, now that large tracts of it are on fire, and destroying hundreds of square miles of carbon-sucking TREES at the same time as spewing thousands of tons of Carbon INTO THE ATMOSPHERE from said trees, homes, cars, etc?
Do ya think Al Gore has anyone at his company adding it up and prepping a bill to send to Gov. S for the "Carbon Offsets" he'll need to square it up and stop Man Made Global Warming?????
Welcome to the result of vanity, greed, and runaway environmentalism.
No controlled burning allowed to reduce the ammount of dead underbrush in the forrests, and when a natural fire starts, it CANNOT be controlled.
Of course, I THOUGHT we figured this out during the same "stop every single fire as soon as possible" policies of the Carter administration of the late 70's. I guess not.
The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.

[AzMandella]

The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.
The pathetic part is that statement is partially true. although it is not the cause,but the severity of fires could be reduced if the tree huggers would let us thin federal lands and State land.

[asch]

I'm thinking about getting into the carbon credit business after this deal is over. What a way to cash in on peoples' emotions. There's gonna be a whole lot of guilty people (except ultra cause he sold his mustang for the environment so he's free and clear) for living carbon-emitting lifestyles, looking for a way to "give back" to mother earth. Last I heard back in March or April, there were only four companies that issued carbon credits.
Just imagine, taking money from individuals AND corporations in return for ALREADY planted trees. The bigger the footprint, the more money. What an ingenious scam. CHA CHING!

[Sleeper CP]

The pathetic part is that statement is partially true. although it is not the cause,but the severity of fires could be reduced if the tree huggers would let us thin federal lands and State land.
This is a 100% true statement. It is the reason the Cider fire in San Diego County was so bad 4 years ago. The dead fallen tree's in Cuyamaca State park that people used to be able to go cut up for fire wood, were off limit's.
People couldn't clear sage brush on their own property, because some dumb ass bird might live in it. The County couldn't maintain fire road's because of environmental (BS) concerns. And then WAM ! The County lost 230,000 acres and 3,200 homes in part,because the jerks didn't have a maintenace plan. So all that habitat that they wanted to protect went up in smoke.
What a bunch of Jack-asses.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[redneckcharlie]

The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.
So. I get home from the bar with some friends, and this is the first thead I come across. Your post is hilarious! So, we're going to continue sitting here eating fresh green chile relleno's, and tortilla's. I don't even want to know what our carbon footprint is at this point! I think my kitchen may explode. :D
Anybody like fresh roasted green chile? I have 250lbs. :D

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.
Very nice set of rose-collored blinders you have there. Are they available in the same isle as the aluminum foil hats?:idea: The kool-aide asle?

[never_fast_enuf]

The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.
You want pathetic? I will give you pathetic. THIS is the bullshit you keep supporting and trust me, people like Harry love you for it and a term was coined long ago for people like you.
“One reason why we have the fires in California is global warming,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters Tuesday, stressing the need to pass the Democrats’ comprehensive energy package.

[058]

The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.
Why not? The libs have blamed Bush for everything from global warming to jock itch. Seems only fair, don't you?:)

[Old Texan]

The fires in CA are the fault of liberals too. Pathetic.
The "intensity" of the fires are at least partially at fault and the responsibility of the environmental libs who have fought to keep undergrowth and dead materials from being removed. Like it or not the Bush Administration has tried to clean the federal lands of fire hazards only to be shut down by green lobbyists groups.
That's what is pathetic. These extremist greenies claim to want to preserve yet support poor land stewardhip through pure ignorance. Nature left alone takes care of nature. Part of a healthy forest is fire or "other means" to remove dead growth. Your Tree Hugging buddies have taken away the "other means".
I'm amazed Ultra at how you are always so quick to defend the actions of "Liberals" who obviously perpetuate bad causes. You claim to not like Gore, Pelosi, Reid, and others but always seem to be first in line to "blindly" defend them and try and find segments of their doings as good. You missed your calling as a shameless shyster defense attorney......

[ULTRA26 # 1]

This is a 100% true statement. It is the reason the Cider fire in San Diego County was so bad 4 years ago. The dead fallen tree's in Cuyamaca State park that people used to be able to go cut up for fire wood, were off limit's.
People couldn't clear sage brush on their own property, because some dumb ass bird might live in it. The County couldn't maintain fire road's because of environmental (BS) concerns. And then WAM ! The County lost 230,000 acres and 3,200 homes in part,because the jerks didn't have a maintenace plan. So all that habitat that they wanted to protect went up in smoke.
What a bunch of Jack-asses.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Not the the case in L.A. and Orange Counties. Brush removal is required around homes. I'm surprized that this isn't in SD County ????? The severity of these fires has been about about conditions, you know it and so do all of us here. Trying to turn what is happening to CA into something political, by either party, is just lame.
I'm thinking about getting into the carbon credit business after this deal is over. What a way to cash in on peoples' emotions. There's gonna be a whole lot of guilty people (except ultra cause he sold his mustang for the environment so he's free and clear) for living carbon-emitting lifestyles, looking for a way to "give back" to mother earth. Last I heard back in March or April, there were only four companies that issued carbon credits.
Just imagine, taking money from individuals AND corporations in return for ALREADY planted trees. The bigger the footprint, the more money. What an ingenious scam. CHA CHING!
You're an ass. Guess in your part of OC you can breath.
So. I get home from the bar with some friends, and this is the first thead I come across. Your post is hilarious! So, we're going to continue sitting here eating fresh green chile relleno's, and tortilla's. I don't even want to know what our carbon footprint is at this point! I think my kitchen may explode. :D
Anybody like fresh roasted green chile? I have 250lbs. :D
WTF are you taling about? Sorry that you found my comment, which was in response to some scum, blaming politics for the CA fires, funny. Not my intent.
You want pathetic? I will give you pathetic. THIS is the bullshit you keep supporting and trust me, people like Harry love you for it and a term was coined long ago for people like you.
“One reason why we have the fires in California is global warming,� Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters Tuesday, stressing the need to pass the Democrats’ comprehensive energy package.
BTW, Reid is a hack and I'm done talking about him. There are many terms that have been coined for people like you as well.
The "intensity" of the fires are at least partially at fault and the responsibility of the environmental libs who have fought to keep undergrowth and dead materials from being removed. Like it or not the Bush Administration has tried to clean the federal lands of fire hazards only to be shut down by green lobbyists groups.
That's what is pathetic. These extremist greenies claim to want to preserve yet support poor land stewardhip through pure ignorance. Nature left alone takes care of nature. Part of a healthy forest is fire or "other means" to remove dead growth. Your Tree Hugging buddies have taken away the "other means".
I'm amazed Ultra at how you are always so quick to defend the actions of "Liberals" who obviously perpetuate bad causes. You claim to not like Gore, Pelosi, Reid, and others but always seem to be first in line to "blindly" defend them and try and find segments of their doings as good. You missed your calling as a shameless shyster defense attorney......
You imbeciles blaming politics for what is happing in CA right now has shed a whole new light on who you really are. Tex, for your information if you or anyone else would have blamed any other group for what is happening, in CA I would have responded the same way. None of you even have enough class to wait until the smoke has cleared before starting your usual bashing games.
I know too many who have been focked by the fires to find any of your comments cute.
Also, I would like to thank the fire crews from CA and every where else for all of the hard work. Many of us know that without your efforts, this situation could have been much worse. Again, I thank you.

[Old Texan]

Not the the case in L.A. and Orange Counties. Brush removal is required around homes. I'm surprized that this isn't in SD County ????? The severity of these fires has been about about conditions, you know it and so do all of us here. Trying to turn what is happening to CA into something political, by either party, is just lame.
You're an ass. Guess in your part of OC you can breath.
WTF are you taling about? Sorry that you found my comment, which was in response to some scum, blaming politics for the CA fires, funny. Not my intent.
BTW, Reid is a hack and I'm done talking about him. There are many terms that have been coined for people like you as well.
You imbeciles blaming politics for what is happing in CA right now has shed a whole new light on who you really are. Tex, for your information if you or anyone else would have blamed any other group for what is happening, in CA I would have responded the same way. None of you even have enough class to wait until the smoke has cleared before starting your usual bashing games.
I know too many who have been focked by the fires to find any of your comments cute.
Also, I would like to thank the fire crews from CA and every where else for all of the hard work. Many of us know that without your efforts, this situation could have been much worse. Again, I thank you.
Ultra your whole retort is political. And once again you take what you want out of context to support your position.
Not one person here is taking these tragic events for anything less serious than they are. Trust me when I tell you that all of us are concerned for the welfare of those folks in trouble. Just like everyone here does for any tragedy in other places.
The point Smokin' brought out is how much of these problems can be less in intensity if your liberal environmnetal nitwit buddies would wake up to reality.
And get off your arrogant name calling soapbox with your "I'm more concerned cause I'm focusing on the immediate issue" crap. It appears once again you're special only in your own lil' mind .

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ultra your whole retort is political. And once again you take what you want out of context to support your position.
Not one person here is taking these tragic events for anything less serious than they are. Trust me when I tell you that all of us are concerned for the welfare of those folks in trouble. Just like everyone here does for any tragedy in other places.
The point Smokin' brought out is how much of these problems can be less in intensity if your liberal environmnetal nitwit buddies would wake up to reality.
And get off your arrogant name calling soapbox with your "I'm more concerned cause I'm focusing on the immediate issue" crap. It appears once again you're special only in your own lil' mind .
Jesus Christ Tex, look at how this POS turned political. Your buddy Smokin.
it appears once again you're special only in your own lil' mind And to that a simple fock you will suffice.

[Sleeper CP]

Not the the case in L.A. and Orange Counties. Brush removal is required around homes. I'm surprized that this isn't in SD County ????? The severity of these fires has been about about conditions, you know it and so do all of us here. Trying to turn what is happening to CA into something political, by either party, is just lame.
.
Clear space around your house, 60-75 feet. I you live in the foothills or out in the back country Coastal-Sage is protected habitat. If your property had 5 acres of it you better not touch it with out a permit. And if you asked for a permit the answer was NO!
Edit: If you didn't like the "no" answer you could always medigate. I think it was 2:1; that is for every acre you disturbed you could buy 2 acres and give it to the County for open space.
Sleeper CP
BigInch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

Jesus Christ Tex, look at how this POS turned political. Your buddy Smokin.
t appears once again you're special only in your own lil' mind And to that a simple fock you will suffice.
There goes the predictable loss of temper again. Over Smokin's observation that didn't suit your mood........:rolleyes:
By the way the obsevation in no way showed any lack of respect for the victims of the fire. That part's in your mind and once again how you choose to perceive.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

There goes the predictable loss of temper again. Over Smokin's observation that didn't suit your mood........:rolleyes:
By the way the obsevation in no way showed any lack of respect for the victims of the fire. That part's in your mind and once again how you choose to perceive.
Think about it the next time you or neighbors have been hit by a disater.
Not a loss of temper just an appropriate response. You boys have fun.

[Old Texan]

Think about it the next time you or neighbors have been hit by a disater.
Not a loss of temper just an appropriate response. You boys have fun.
Continue to miss the point and go about your business all PO'd......Hey there's an idea, go piss on the fire, channel your anger productively....:devil:
Question there Mr. Ultra. Are you conscious of how "Politically Correct" you come across or is it just your "liberal" nature subconsciously showing through? I'm not trying to be a wiseass, just curious.
By the way Texas has put a ban on "Disaters". "Disaters" don't go around here.......(C'mon Ultra, howsa bout' just a little chuckle, good for the blood pressure.....)

[asch]

Continue to miss the point and go about your business all PO'd......Hey there's an idea, go piss on the fire, channel your anger productively....:devil:
Question there Mr. Ultra. Are you conscious of how "Politically Correct" you come across or is it just your "liberal" nature subconsciously showing through? I'm not trying to be a wiseass, just curious.
By the way Texas has put a ban on "Disaters". "Disaters" don't go around here.......(C'mon Ultra, howsa bout' just a little chuckle, good for the blood pressure.....)
;) Good post.
I think he's he's been hanging out in the other forums too much, his sense of humor has really gone down hill.
Ultra: Since I live directly downstream of the smoke and debris, yes, it's been difficult to breath. Been hacking, weezing and coughing; not so much today but Sun. through yesterday, yeah. Not exactly a good enough reason to complain in light of the massive loss of property. An exodus has taken palce and your concerned about your breathing.
Btw, you personally lost any property? I doubt it. Youda made sure we knew about it.
You're wrong about brush/tree clearing. The poor little Bark Beetle might be harmed. You WILL be cited if you illegally cut back foliage. Talk about shootin ourselves in the foot.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

IAlso, I would like to thank the fire crews from CA and every where else for all of the hard work. Many of us know that without your efforts, this situation could have been much worse. Again, I thank you.
Just exactly WHY are there US Marines, sitting right now, on Camp Pendelton, with over a dozen more helicopters, with water buckets for them, sitting unused (by the way, un-used = un-REQUESTED at this moment)?:idea:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Nature left alone takes care of nature. Part of a healthy forest is fire or "other means" to remove dead growth. Your Tree Hugging buddies have taken away the "other means".
And nature is doing a fine "cleaning" job right now, with, apparently, not a damn thing we hugely powerful humans (who are going to cook the world in 40 years) can do about it.

[Steve 1]

Ultra IQ 26
Has a typical Leftist agenda; Blather away without putting up ONE that is 1---------------Ã* Fact!! Hoping something will stick! Check everything this clown has posted it equals nothing.
This is the VERY reason Lefties are dangerous they TRY to pervert the truth.. These fires have been happening for a 1000 years and AND if you live in a fire zone guess what? The same as a hurricane zone or a flood zone you canÂ’t cry about it..
Secondly IF THERE was NO FUEL there would be NO fire. Thank a Liberal Fag for that! As usual all that is wrong in the world is directly traceable to a Filthy DemocRAT.
http://www.Photo-Host.org/img/609571gunfire2.gif (http://www.Photo-Host.org)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Jesus Christ Tex, look at how this POS turned political. Your buddy Smokin..
The curious part of it is that I did not hang anything on the current crop of Democrats, OR "Liberals".
Back in the 70's, the US Forest Service spent a decade on hard-core "Fire Suppression", stopping every fire they spotted, big or small (mostly small). This resulted in a huge build-up of dead brush and trees, also known as "tinder". Eventually a fire got lit that was not caught in time, and charred everything for HUNDREDS OF SQUARE MILES. Far to huge and hot to put out, and several happened like this.
The USFS finally decided that small fires in remote areas, away from living quarters and cities, would be ignored, to NATURALLY keep the level of tinder down. This keeps fires controllable.
Go try to set a tree on fire with nothing more than a couple feet of grass field under it.
You'll burn the grass off nicely, but the trees will scorch a bit, but will not get hot enough to ignite.
Put 2 feet of leaves, dead branches, pine needles, grass, etc under it, and it WILL get the tree lit.
This is called "remembering history".
It seems California, in it's finite wisdom, has forgotten this fact of forestry, and is now getting a reminder, from Mother Nature herself.
The line of "vanity, greed, and runaway environmentalism" apparently stabs a wee bit too closely at our green-living hero with the Civic and LED lights which offset his 26' Big Block boat and Ford Lightning.
Vanity.
Perhaps "Vainglory" would be a better term.
Small controll burns put smoke into the air, it smells bad, and gets ashes on houses, cars, boats stored outside, and in swimming pools, which need cleaned even more.
vain·glo·ry (vnglôr, -glr, vn-glôr, -glr)
n. pl. vain·glo·ries
1. Boastful, unwarranted pride in one's accomplishments or qualities.
2. Vain, ostentatious display.
Personally, I prefer ashes ON my house, to my house converted to ashes.
Greed refers pretty much to exactly the same behavior. "It's all about me, and I don't like it.", never about the good of the neighbors, county, etc.
Others have backed up my noting of California's "runaway environmentalism" which apparently doesn't exist where Ultra lives.
The rest of you jokers MUST quit smoking the ditch-weed. Ultra knows controll burns are going on all the time, all over California.
(of course, he DIDN'T know comon home insurance covers storm damage to include WIND damage like tornados and other high-wind conditions.) :idea:
The bugs, beetles, and bunnies are more important than the houses evil people have put IN THEIR HOMES, so you will not alter their home areas without permission.
You will NOT be given permnission, you scum.
There is the enviro-nazi view, and THOSE are the suing members of the Siera Club, and others who prevent levy improvements, brush clearing/fire prevention, logging (the owl was seen living in a neon sign for god's sake), Ski Resort construction (they occasionally BURN those down), and other "intrusive to nature" activities.
They LOVE "environmental impact studies".
Mother Nature is teaching man now, wake up and PAY ATTENTION, or you WILL get this lesson again. :idea:
Not the the case in L.A. and Orange Counties. Brush removal is required around homes.
Since LA County clears all it's excess brush, just how much of LA county is FORESTED?
LA County DOES have that rather large city of "L.A." covering a rather sizeable portion of it, doesn't it?
And to that a simple fock you will suffice.
Again, zero issue discussion, but a good clown472 quote there.
Are you filling in for him on purpose, or are you 2 just that closely related?
Kindred Spirits. :idea: :idea:

[3 daytona`s]

In Southern California,I pay attention to the guys who`s lives are on the line and know the deal.In 2003 the fire fighters and their bosses all agreed the dead dried growth compounded their jobs so much. This morning on one of the news channels a fire captain was interviewed and was furious,saying San Diego County and tax payers turned down funding for the 61 more firestations and numerous other suggestions made by a pannel of experts after the 2003 fire. I agree with him this will continue and do not come crying if you do not wish to give them every possible chance to succeed or at least confine. I have no dog in this fight and do not care id they do or don`t just hate to see federal funds to continue to go to Hurricane,fire,earthquake problems when it is a fact of life and the ones who choose to live there should be required to address it

[SmokinLowriderSS]

hate to see federal funds to continue to go to Hurricane,fire,earthquake problems when it is a fact of life and the ones who choose to live there should be required to address it
Agreed 3 D.

[Boatcop]

Agreed 3 D.
My feelings, exactly.
I remember a comedian from long ago saying...
"I know of a way to cut the Federal Budget. Get rid of Dam Inspectors. We don't need no Dam Insepctors. If you live under a Dam, you should be there once a month checking that sucker for leaks."

[3 daytona`s]

My feelings, exactly.
I remember a comedian from long ago saying...
"I know of a way to cut the Federal Budget. Get rid of Dam Inspectors. We don't need no Dam Insepctors. If you live under a Dam, you should be there once a month checking that sucker for leaks."
BC when interviewing the people in the Stadium this morning they were reporting how they had a dance last evening way more than enough food not a want in the world except wish to go home :idea: :jawdrop: :confused: Where did that money come from? They said dancing drinking having a great time. I don`t get it. These people are in the "SOMEONE WILL TAKE CARE OF US" MODE :mad:

[Sleeper CP]

In Southern California,I pay attention to the guys who`s lives are on the line and know the deal.In 2003 the fire fighters and their bosses all agreed the dead dried growth compounded their jobs so much. This morning on one of the news channels a fire captain was interviewed and was furious,saying San Diego County and tax payers turned down funding for the 61 more firestations and numerous other suggestions made by a pannel of experts after the 2003 fire. I agree with him this will continue and do not come crying if you do not wish to give them every possible chance to succeed or at least confine.
"Turned down funding" IE raise taxes. The equipment and personnel is already in San Diego County, it's called the US NAVY and Marine Corps. They have the equipment and the manpower, the Ass Wipes of the Cal. Fire will not call them in to use their resources.
Yesterday was day Number four of this fire and it was the first day that the military Heilo's were on the fire. And that damn near took an act of Congress to get it to happen. The Military and 3 local Congressmen thought it was a done deal to get the Military on the fire yesterday morn at sun up. The Jack-Asses at Cal Fire changed their minds and at 2:30 yesterday afternoon NO Military aircraft at least Heilo's were flying. There were 11 available, but Cal Fire wanted Cal Fire spotters in each Heilo. All the spotters were already in the air so the Military Helio's were grounded.
The story goes on and on, but it comes down to Cal Fire being more interested in protecting what they perceive as "Their" turf as opposed to saving houses and knocking down the fire. Some of these guy's making decisions should loose their jobs or be thrown in jail.
The Military finally got cleared at 4:00 O'clock yesterday afternoon to fly a section of the fire by themselves so that Cal Fire didn't have to worry about coordinating with them. The Military guy's finally said to them" If you are worried about our planes, running into yours why don't you just assign us our own airspace away from you so that is not a problem. Our pilot's are used to flying in close proximity to each other all the time." With that, Cal Fire ran out of excuses to not let them fly and finally cleared them to fly off base.
PHucking Bureaucrats.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

Y'all quit stating facts and claiming Bureaucratic Politics. Ultra is already so mad at everyone he can't spit. :D :devil:

[3 daytona`s]

Y'all quit stating facts and claiming Bureaucratic Politics. Ultra is already so mad at everyone he can't spit. :D :devil:
I just did TEX, as in my coffee all over the desk.:)

[Sleeper CP]

Y'all quit stating facts and claiming Bureaucratic Politics. Ultra is already so mad at everyone he can't spit. :D :devil:
:D :D ;)
The Pres. just took off from Miramar in the Heilo.
Sleeper CP

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Y'all quit stating facts and claiming Bureaucratic Politics. Ultra is already so mad at everyone he can't spit. :D :devil:
I'm not mad just disgusted.
I for one am very proud of how the fire crews in CA handled this situation. They truly kicked some serious fire ass. Coming on here are talking shit about how the State, County or City Governments, didn't do this or didn't do that properly is just more arm chair quarter backing.
Again, I would like you thank all of the men and women who put their lives on the line fighting and containing the CA fires.
Job Well Done People :)

[Old Texan]

I'm not mad just disgusted.
Coming on here are talking shit about how the State, County or City Governments, didn't do this or didn't do that properly is just more arm chair quarter backing.
Then again if you'd ever stop and think, you might realize it's private citizens discussing what went right and what went wrong in order to improve the situation if it should occur again in the future.
Strange how you are the only one assuming the negative. But then again since you regularly get your hackles up over any slight towards the Dems and people considered Liberals maybe it isn't so strange. Of course your tendnecy to blame every wrong on W helps cloud your vision over the real sources which more often than not involve the aforementioned Dems/Libs.
You spout praise towards the brave fire fighters with every other breath but yet you don't want to hear that perhaps there are changes needed to reduce the risk of large fires and changes needed in procedure to be able to use all available resources especially those paid for by the tax payer. Changes that would help the fire fighters do their jobs more safely and more efficiently.
Driving a Honda Civic makes "you" feel good. Supporting the right people to better the forest conditions and supply more equipment makes the "community" a safer place to live.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Then again if you'd ever stop and think, you might realize it's private citizens discussing what went right and what went wrong in order to improve the situation if it should occur again in the future.
Strange how you are the only one assuming the negative. But then again since you regularly get your hackles up over any slight towards the Dems and people considered Liberals maybe it isn't so strange. Of course your tendnecy to blame every wrong on W helps cloud your vision over the real sources which more often than not involve the aforementioned Dems/Libs.
You spout praise towards the brave fire fighters with every other breath but yet you don't want to hear that perhaps there are changes needed to reduce the risk of large fires and changes needed in procedure to be able to use all available resources especially those paid for by the tax payer. Changes that would help the fire fighters do their jobs more safely and more efficiently.
Driving a Honda Civic makes "you" feel good. Supporting the right people to better the forest conditions and supply more equipment makes the "community" a safer place to live.
Tex, the fires are barely out and there has not been a reasonable amount of time to assess what could have been done better, except of course, by the HB GOP Arm Chair know it alls.
All in due time.
Seems you have a problem for my praise of the CA Firefighters.
Bringing up what kind of car that I drive just shows more of the childish, classless bullsh*t that you are becoming famous for.
The PUT DOWN POSSE rides again.
That's it W lit the f'n fires, I forgot that one.
:D :D ;)
The Pres. just took off from Miramar in the Heilo.
For what reason. Glad he didn't get here sooner during the emergency. He might have had breath some of the wonderful smoke filled air we all have been enjoying.
Note the Governator has been out there doing a great job. JWD

[Sleeper CP]

I for one am very proud of how the fire crews in CA handled this situation. They truly kicked some serious fire ass. Coming on here are talking shit about how the State, County or City Governments, didn't do this or didn't do that properly is just more arm chair quarter backing.
:)
Well, at least I didn't get called an asshole like Rush for pointing out what's wrong.
Ultra, you are missing the point. Four years ago in the Cider Fire a No. Cal fire fighter died on the same day the asshole bureaucrat's of CDF had 4 Military pilots getting qualified to due water drop's. These same pilots had been fighting wild fire's on Camp Pendleton for a week. My point is, at least one man died and God knows how many more houses were burned, because CDF was protecting their turf.
FYI: After the dust had settled and the smoke cleared some people started asking question's about how to do it better the next time. They found the procedure book that was written after the 1971 Laguna Fire that was then the largest fire in San Diego County. Guess what? That book was sitting on the shelf and hadn't been looked at for 32-33 years. Who's responsibility is it Ultra, to follow procedure's?
The game plan had been written and then either forgotten or ignored and the plan from 32 years before stated that the CDF "shall use Military assets to assist in future fire fighting"(paraphrased). It is now 4 years after the last disaster and the Ass-wipes bureaucrats still won't do what is obvious and the right thing to do. (Hey sign me up for Federal Health Care, I want to be the first in-line):rolleyes: :(
Lastly, just like the War in Iraq, If you put our ground solders in harms way you owe it to them to fight to win with as much hardware as it takes to reduce our casualties. Fire's should be fought the same way to save lives and House's. When "your" beloved Bureaucrat's know that there are 11 Heilo's sitting on the ground ready to fly and they won't call them in because of a "turf war" or because of "red tape" something is wrong ,very wrong. And this is not the first time it has happened, and many are the same phucking player's from 4 years ago. I am really sorry that you are Okay with that.:( ( Hey let's give them another promotion when this is over)
Those that are in the field deserve our praise and those that are making there job harder, longer and more dangerous because of the turf war deserve our scorn.
Just my .02
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well, at least I didn't get called an asshole like Rush for pointing out what's wrong.
Ultra, you are missing the point. Four years ago in the Cider Fire a No. Cal fire fighter died on the same day the asshole bureaucrat's of CDF had 4 Military pilots getting qualified to due water drop's. These same pilots had been fighting wild fire's on Camp Pendleton for a week. My point is, at least one man died and God knows how many more houses were burned, because CDF was protecting their turf.
FYI: After the dust had settled and the smoke cleared some people started asking question's about how to do it better the next time. They found the procedure book that was written after the 1971 Laguna Fire that was then the largest fire in San Diego County. Guess what? That book was sitting on the shelf and hadn't been looked at for 32-33 years. Who's responsibility is it Ultra, to follow procedure's?
The game plan had been written and then either forgotten or ignored and the plan from 32 years before stated that the CDF "shall use Military assets to assist in future fire fighting"(paraphrased). It is now 4 years after the last disaster and the Ass-wipes bureaucrats still won't do what is obvious and the right thing to do. (Hey sign me up for Federal Health Care, I want to be the first in-line):rolleyes: :(
Lastly, just like the War in Iraq, If you put our ground solders in harms way you owe it to them to fight to win with as much hardware as it takes to reduce our casualties. Fire's should be fought the same way to save lives and House's. When "your" beloved Bureaucrat's know that there are 11 Heilo's sitting on the ground ready to fly and they won't call them in because of a "turf war" or because of "red tape" something is wrong ,very wrong. And this is not the first time it has happened, and many are the same phucking player's from 4 years ago. I am really sorry that you are Okay with that.:( ( Hey let's give them another promotion when this is over)
Those that are in the field deserve our praise and those that are making there job harder, longer and more dangerous because of the turf war deserve our scorn.
Just my .02
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp,
At this stage of the game, your suggestion that you know why the so called procedures weren't followed is a bit premature, IMO. A haven't heard of the Turf war between CDF and the Feds. :confused:
Scp, This is the comment of an ASSHOLE. There's a difference
Go Rush
It's the largest evacuation in the history of the state of California. The people fighting these fires are in grave, grave danger. It is unsafe. I think it's time to bring the firefighters home. I think it's time to bring the firefighters out of there. It's just too dangerous. They're in there on a false premise anyway, that they can put out the fire. We can't win against the fire, folks, just like we can't win in Iraq. So if the liberals want to politicize this, then I ask them to be consistent and admit defeat to the fire. Admit we can't beat the fire, and get these brave firefighters out of there and get our brave National Guard troops that are on the job out of there. Get the Marines from Camp Pendleton that were out there fighting. Get 'em out of there because we can't win this! We're not going to beat this fire. We have to let it burn itself out. We have no... (interruption) Yeah, it's just going to be back next year, anyway. We're never going to get rid of it. The fire is just going to come back. It's just a shame. Putting so many brave people at risk there, fighting a fire that we can't win. Sound familiar, ladies and gentlemen?

[Boatcop]

Scp, This is the comment of an ASSHOLE. There's a difference
Go Rush
It's the largest evacuation in the history of the state of California. The people fighting these fires are in grave, grave danger. It is unsafe. I think it's time to bring the firefighters home. I think it's time to bring the firefighters out of there. It's just too dangerous. They're in there on a false premise anyway, that they can put out the fire. We can't win against the fire, folks, just like we can't win in Iraq. So if the liberals want to politicize this, then I ask them to be consistent and admit defeat to the fire. Admit we can't beat the fire, and get these brave firefighters out of there and get our brave National Guard troops that are on the job out of there. Get the Marines from Camp Pendleton that were out there fighting. Get 'em out of there because we can't win this! We're not going to beat this fire. We have to let it burn itself out. We have no... (interruption) Yeah, it's just going to be back next year, anyway. We're never going to get rid of it. The fire is just going to come back. It's just a shame. Putting so many brave people at risk there, fighting a fire that we can't win. Sound familiar, ladies and gentlemen?
Apparently sarcasm is lost to the left. :rolleyes:

[Boatcop]

Just a little note on the Federal response to the California Wildfires.
http://www.fema.gov/hazard/wildfire/ca_2007.shtm
I find these parts pretty interesting:
"550 Marine Corps (Active Duty) and 17,301 National Guard (California) at Twenty Nine Palms are available."
"The U.S. Marine Corps has one CH-46 and three CH-53 water bucket-capable helicopters on standby at MCAS Miramar, and one additional helicopter on standby at MCAS Camp Pendleton."

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Just a little note on the Federal response to the California Wildfires.
http://www.fema.gov/hazard/wildfire/ca_2007.shtm
I find these parts pretty interesting:
"550 Marine Corps (Active Duty) and 17,301 National Guard (California) at Twenty Nine Palms are available."
"The U.S. Marine Corps has one CH-46 and three CH-53 water bucket-capable helicopters on standby at MCAS Miramar, and one additional helicopter on standby at MCAS Camp Pendleton."
Alan,
IMO, the response from all involved, thus far, has been great. If procedures weren't follwed, as has been suggested, no doubt there will be an investigation. With regard to sarcasm. I don't believe Rush's sarcastic comments were timely. To me it's just a simple matter of respect.

[HM]

Scp,
At this stage of the game, your suggestion that you know why the so called procedures weren't followed is a bit premature, IMO. A haven't heard of the Turf war between CDF and the Feds. :confused:
Scp, This is the comment of an ASSHOLE. There's a difference
Go Rush
It's the largest evacuation in the history of the state of California. The people fighting these fires are in grave, grave danger. It is unsafe. I think it's time to bring the firefighters home. I think it's time to bring the firefighters out of there. It's just too dangerous. They're in there on a false premise anyway, that they can put out the fire. We can't win against the fire, folks, just like we can't win in Iraq. So if the liberals want to politicize this, then I ask them to be consistent and admit defeat to the fire. Admit we can't beat the fire, and get these brave firefighters out of there and get our brave National Guard troops that are on the job out of there. Get the Marines from Camp Pendleton that were out there fighting. Get 'em out of there because we can't win this! We're not going to beat this fire. We have to let it burn itself out. We have no... (interruption) Yeah, it's just going to be back next year, anyway. We're never going to get rid of it. The fire is just going to come back. It's just a shame. Putting so many brave people at risk there, fighting a fire that we can't win. Sound familiar, ladies and gentlemen?
The truth hurts...don't it.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The truth hurts...don't it.
Absolutely not
What truth are you referring to?

[Schiada76]

Damn! I missed weighing in on this whole thread!
I'm gonna start by shocking the hell out of Ultra.
I agree with him.:eek: :sqeyes: :sqeyes:
The tree hugging freaks have nothing what so ever to do with the intensity of this type of fire. The USFS policy since their inception has been to extinguish all fires and let fuel build to catastrohic levels, this policy predates the tree hugging freaks.
The terrain in SoCal doesn't come into play in regards to this policy in that the brush and chapparal that feeds these conflagrations is not forested.
Chapparal must burn to propagate and as a fuel is actually explosive.
Add in 80 mile an hour sustained winds, gusts to 100 MPH plus and the fact that this fuel will create it's weather and there is nothing that can be done but get the fck out of the way.:D
I will take exception to Ultras statement that the jury is out on what could have been done better because noting more could have been done barring having a fleet of 100 super scoopers and 50,000 fire fighters on hand.:D
BTW Arnold hasn't done jack shit, he's there for the photo op, It's the fire fighters that have been fighting these exact same types of fires for decades that do the job.:D
I am feed up with the liberal scum trying to blame this on GW ( That's the POTUS and global warming).
SoCal has alays burned this time of year, I remember worse fires, less homes in the path how ever. 2003 there was 22 deaths and 3700 homes lost.

[Old Texan]

Tex, the fires are barely out and there has not been a reasonable amount of time to assess what could have been done better, except of course, by the HB GOP Arm Chair know it alls.
All in due time.
Seems you have a problem for my praise of the CA Firefighters.
Bringing up what kind of car that I drive just shows more of the childish, classless bullsh*t that you are becoming famous for.
The PUT DOWN POSSE rides again.
That's it W lit the f'n fires, I forgot that one.
And you "Oh Overstuffed Egomaniac" are becoming more and more famous for your inability to comphrehend what is being said. Which is in addition to your temper tantrums and inability to even have a clue about satire or sarcasm.
My point about your "praise" of the firefighters isn't a problem, it just comes across as another of your politically correct feeling deals rather than your taking a look at what is actually happening. Everyone is prasising the firefighters and rightfully so. You on the other hand seem inclined to punctuate your sentences with a line of praise to the point it loses it's meaning for chrissakes.
The point about your damed ol' politically correct car was just to point out another of your ego building personal back slaps on how you're doing your part while the rest of us sit in SUV's not giving a flying f--k.
We're concerned about the safety of the firefighters and the citizens in the path of the damn fire you knucklehead. Pay attention.
Sleeper is right at ground zero and he knows the score. He doesn't have to sit around waiting to "assess" anything. Listen to what he says, not what you want to hear as is your typical PC way.
Hey maybe if you go down and stand close to the fire, the heat will melt out some of that earwax so you can hear and clear out some of those built up eye boogers so you can see to read.....As far as curing your density, we're probably out of luck though. :devil:
(By the way the last paragraph was meant as a lil' sarcastic humor and isn't intended to be offensive. You delicate lil' Liberal PC flower child you......:D By the way do you have any daisies on the dash of the Civic....Hee-hee :) )

[Schiada76]

Well, at least I didn't get called an asshole like Rush for pointing out what's wrong.
Ultra, you are missing the point. Four years ago in the Cider Fire a No. Cal fire fighter died on the same day the asshole bureaucrat's of CDF had 4 Military pilots getting qualified to due water drop's. These same pilots had been fighting wild fire's on Camp Pendleton for a week. My point is, at least one man died and God knows how many more houses were burned, because CDF was protecting their turf.
FYI: After the dust had settled and the smoke cleared some people started asking question's about how to do it better the next time. They found the procedure book that was written after the 1971 Laguna Fire that was then the largest fire in San Diego County. Guess what? That book was sitting on the shelf and hadn't been looked at for 32-33 years. Who's responsibility is it Ultra, to follow procedure's?
The game plan had been written and then either forgotten or ignored and the plan from 32 years before stated that the CDF "shall use Military assets to assist in future fire fighting"(paraphrased). It is now 4 years after the last disaster and the Ass-wipes bureaucrats still won't do what is obvious and the right thing to do. (Hey sign me up for Federal Health Care, I want to be the first in-line):rolleyes: :(
Lastly, just like the War in Iraq, If you put our ground solders in harms way you owe it to them to fight to win with as much hardware as it takes to reduce our casualties. Fire's should be fought the same way to save lives and House's. When "your" beloved Bureaucrat's know that there are 11 Heilo's sitting on the ground ready to fly and they won't call them in because of a "turf war" or because of "red tape" something is wrong ,very wrong. And this is not the first time it has happened, and many are the same phucking player's from 4 years ago. I am really sorry that you are Okay with that.:( ( Hey let's give them another promotion when this is over)
Those that are in the field deserve our praise and those that are making there job harder, longer and more dangerous because of the turf war deserve our scorn.
Just my .02
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
What I heard on the news last night was that there is not enough communication with the state/locals and the military to utilize those assets in these types of circumstances. Would the military be able to take orders from the local fire chief?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Damn! I missed weighing in on this whole thread!
I'm gonna start by shocking the hell out of Ultra.
I agree with him.:eek: :sqeyes: :sqeyes:
The tree hugging freaks have nothing what so ever to do with the intensity of this type of fire. The USFS policy since their inception has been to extinguish all fires and let fuel build to catastrohic levels, this policy predates the tree hugging freaks.
The terrain in SoCal doesn't come into play in regards to this policy in that the brush and chapparal that feeds these conflagrations is not forested.
Chapparal must burn to propagate and as a fuel is actually explosive.
Add in 80 mile an hour sustained winds, gusts to 100 MPH plus and the fact that this fuel will create it's weather and there is nothing that can be done but get the fck out of the way.:D
I will take exception to Ultras statement that the jury is out on what could have been done better because noting more could have been done barring having a fleet of 100 super scoopers and 50,000 fire fighters on hand.:D
BTW Arnold hasn't done jack shit, he's there for the photo op, It's the fire fighters that have been fighting these exact same types of fires for decades that do the job.:D
I am feed up with the liberal scum trying to blame this on GW ( That's the POTUS and global warming).
SoCal has alays burned this time of year, I remember worse fires, less homes in the path how ever. 2003 there was 22 deaths and 3700 homes lost.
:2purples: :2purples: You're right.
And let me agree with you. GW has nothing to do with the CA fires and anyone stating otherwise should STFU. The fires and severity were the result of conditions. Winds clocked at 108 MPH at Castiac. You're absolutly right, with regard to CA fires happening every year at about this same time, every since I can remember. A wet season, followed by a dry season, a large high pressure system stalled over the State, and bingo.
The guys and gals that fought these kicked some serious fire ass. These people are pros and should be commended.
What I heard on the news last night was that there is not enough communication with the state/locals and the military to utilize those assets in these types of circumstances. Would the military be able to take orders from the local fire chief?
This is exactly what I heard too.
Tex, my location is right in the middle of the fires. You are clueless with regard to the realities of what has occurred here. This isn't about partisan politics. You're out of your element.

[Schiada76]

"Turned down funding" IE raise taxes. The equipment and personnel is already in San Diego County, it's called the US NAVY and Marine Corps. They have the equipment and the manpower, the Ass Wipes of the Cal. Fire will not call them in to use their resources.
Yesterday was day Number four of this fire and it was the first day that the military Heilo's were on the fire. And that damn near took an act of Congress to get it to happen. The Military and 3 local Congressmen thought it was a done deal to get the Military on the fire yesterday morn at sun up. The Jack-Asses at Cal Fire changed their minds and at 2:30 yesterday afternoon NO Military aircraft at least Heilo's were flying. There were 11 available, but Cal Fire wanted Cal Fire spotters in each Heilo. All the spotters were already in the air so the Military Helio's were grounded.
The story goes on and on, but it comes down to Cal Fire being more interested in protecting what they perceive as "Their" turf as opposed to saving houses and knocking down the fire. Some of these guy's making decisions should loose their jobs or be thrown in jail.
The Military finally got cleared at 4:00 O'clock yesterday afternoon to fly a section of the fire by themselves so that Cal Fire didn't have to worry about coordinating with them. The Military guy's finally said to them" If you are worried about our planes, running into yours why don't you just assign us our own airspace away from you so that is not a problem. Our pilot's are used to flying in close proximity to each other all the time." With that, Cal Fire ran out of excuses to not let them fly and finally cleared them to fly off base.
PHucking Bureaucrats.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Whoops!
I need to reasses some of my previous statements.
SC has more info than I.
Sleeper are you with the local FD?

[Schiada76]

"Turned down funding" IE raise taxes. The equipment and personnel is already in San Diego County, it's called the US NAVY and Marine Corps. They have the equipment and the manpower, the Ass Wipes of the Cal. Fire will not call them in to use their resources.
Yesterday was day Number four of this fire and it was the first day that the military Heilo's were on the fire. And that damn near took an act of Congress to get it to happen. The Military and 3 local Congressmen thought it was a done deal to get the Military on the fire yesterday morn at sun up. The Jack-Asses at Cal Fire changed their minds and at 2:30 yesterday afternoon NO Military aircraft at least Heilo's were flying. There were 11 available, but Cal Fire wanted Cal Fire spotters in each Heilo. All the spotters were already in the air so the Military Helio's were grounded.
The story goes on and on, but it comes down to Cal Fire being more interested in protecting what they perceive as "Their" turf as opposed to saving houses and knocking down the fire. Some of these guy's making decisions should loose their jobs or be thrown in jail.
The Military finally got cleared at 4:00 O'clock yesterday afternoon to fly a section of the fire by themselves so that Cal Fire didn't have to worry about coordinating with them. The Military guy's finally said to them" If you are worried about our planes, running into yours why don't you just assign us our own airspace away from you so that is not a problem. Our pilot's are used to flying in close proximity to each other all the time." With that, Cal Fire ran out of excuses to not let them fly and finally cleared them to fly off base.
PHucking Bureaucrats.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Whoops!
I need to reassess some of my previous statements.
SC has more info than I.
Sleeper are you with the local FD?

[Sleeper CP]

Alan,
IMO, the response from all involved, thus far, has been great. If procedures weren't follwed, as has been suggested, no doubt there will be an investigation. With regard to sarcasm. I don't believe Rush's sarcastic comments were timely. To me it's just a simple matter of respect.
Boy, I hate to say you are naive ; but boy are you naive.
An investigation ? Four years ago the same thing happened. With a lot of the same cast of characters. Nothing will happen to anyone this time maybe just maybe they will follow through with the Blue Ribbon Panels suggestions from 32 years ago, that are 100% relevant today.
What part of bureaucracy don't you comprehend, this is what they do. In our business I have had to deal with US Fish and Wild Life, California Fish and Game, Army Corps of Engineer's, Bureau of Land Management, State Mining Commission, OSHA,MSHA not to mention a 1/2 dozen local agencies.
I could keep going.
Lastly, do you want me to explain to you why this is a "turf war" ?
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2859994
Tex, my location is right in the middle of the fires. You are clueless with regard to the realities of what has occurred here. This isn't about partisan politics. You're out of your element.[/QUOTE]
Therefore you should have the heat fix of your ear wax taken care of, eh?:devil:
Compared to you, we're all out of our element....:rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Boy, I hate to say you are naive ; but boy are you naive.
An investigation ? Four years ago the same thing happened. With a lot of the same cast of characters. Nothing will happen to anyone this time maybe just maybe they will follow through with the Blue Ribbon Panels suggestions from 32 years ago, that are 100% relevant today.
What part of bureaucracy don't you comprehend, this is what they do. In our business I have had to deal with US Fish and Wild Life, California Fish and Game, Army Corps of Engineer's, Bureau of Land Management, State Mining Commission, OSHA,MSHA not to mention a 1/2 dozen local agencies.
I could keep going.
Lastly, do you want me to explain to you why this is a "turf war" ?
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp, I understand bureaucracy more than you would like to give me credit for. I deal that element just like you do. As you claim I am nieve I would suggest that you are to quick to point fingers and judge. Why not let the smoke clear and give credit where credit is do. Why not leave the finger pointing until us folks in SoCal can at least breath again.
Therefore you should have the heat fix of your ear wax taken care of, eh?:devil:
Compared to you, we're all out of our element....:rolleyes:
Eh? Was that supossed to mean something?
No. But you surely are with regard to what's occurred here in CA.

[Sleeper CP]

What I heard on the news last night was that there is not enough communication with the state/locals and the military to utilize those assets in these types of circumstances. Would the military be able to take orders from the local fire chief?
Smoke screen! Pun intended. The statement was" we use different "lingo" and communicate differently". Really:confused: Then assign the Military Pilots there own air space and stay away from each other. That way you can fight more fire at the same time. There are 3 major fires going on right now that are each 10-20 miles across. I think there is enough air space, particularly for Helio's. My 11 year old could figure this out. But then again I'm raising her to be a conservative.;)
But instead of doing that the CDF had them grounded. Does that really make any sense to anyone? The Military Pilots have been fighting the fire's on the Marine bases for sometime now and they are doing a good job.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

Boy, I hate to say you are naive ; but boy are you naive.
An investigation ? Four years ago the same thing happened. With a lot of the same cast of characters. Nothing will happen to anyone this time maybe just maybe they will follow through with the Blue Ribbon Panels suggestions from 32 years ago, that are 100% relevant today.
What part of bureaucracy don't you comprehend, this is what they do. In our business I have had to deal with US Fish and Wild Life, California Fish and Game, Army Corps of Engineer's, Bureau of Land Management, State Mining Commission, OSHA,MSHA not to mention a 1/2 dozen local agencies.
I could keep going.
Lastly, do you want me to explain to you why this is a "turf war" ?
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Good luck my friend. You are "arguing" with a Liberal Mule. :rolleyes:
Sorry gotta get back to my element....
By the way my apology to Mules for the above slanderous comparision....Mules aren't that dense.:devil:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Smoke screen! Pun intended. The statement was" we use different "lingo" and communicate differently". Really:confused: Then assign the Military Pilots there own air space and stay away from each other. That way you can fight more fire at the same time. There are 3 major fires going on right now that are each 10-20 miles across. I think there is enough air space, particularly for Helio's. My 11 year old could figure this out. But then again I'm raising her to be a conservative.;)
But instead of doing that the CDF had them grounded. Does that really make any sense to anyone? The Military Pilots have been fighting the fire's on the Marine bases for sometime now and they are doing a good job.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Be a sport and provide us withe BS reason CDF has used for grounding the military pilots, please.
Good luck my friend. You are "arguing" with a Liberal Mule. :rolleyes:
Sorry gotta get back to my element....
By the way my apology to Mules for the above slanderous comparision....Mules aren't that dense.:devil:
Obviously easier than with a horses a**, Tex.
Very original with the apology.

[Schiada76]

I think part of my confusion is with the difference between here in LA county and SD county. The county FD here swings a big stick and from what my brother told me when he worked for them they called the shots. You mentioned before that you had problems with some local tree huggers about clearing brush, here the County FD comes by and cites you if you don't, then they'll clear it and add the bill to your property tax.:D

[Old Texan]

Folks, I stand corrected. When a Texan is wrong he is quick to admit it. Man up by God, it's the right thing to do.
I must apologize to Ultra. He is indeed in the middle of the fire disaster and deserves his recognition.
On my way home from work I heard your CA Gov, Mr Arnold vowing that the "CA governemnt would use "Every Tool" available to deal with this disaster.....", I knew right then he had ol' Ultra right out front with them big clown shoes a' his stompin' away, 'cause we all know he's the "Biggest Tool" in "Colliefornia" the Governator can find.......:devil: :D :devil: :D
(Somebody maybe will have to 'splain it to him, Okay????:devil: )

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I think part of my confusion is with the difference between here in LA county and SD county. The county FD here swings a big stick and from what my brother told me when he worked for them they called the shots. You mentioned before that you had problems with some local tree huggers about clearing brush, here the County FD comes by and cites you if you don't, then they'll clear it and add the bill to your property tax.:D
As it SHOULD be Schiada.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

being connected to the fires.
Some of the DC Politicians have already been covered (although I could find more if I "investigated").
Straight from "Friends Of The Earth" website.
While Bush is attempting to score compassion points with the people of California, let's tell him not to burn Californians by blocking their duly enacted laws. The EPA must allow the state's Pavley, or "Clean Cars" fuel emission standards to go forward - along with the standards of a dozen other states that have followed California's lead.
No one fire can be blamed on global warming, but there is no doubt that changes in our climate are causing more fires that are more severe. The tragic events unfolding in California are yet another stark reminder that action is needed to combat global warming now, and the EPA should not stand in the way of California's lead.
While California burns, your EPA is sitting on a waiver request from that state that would allow it to combat global warming through the regulation of greenhouse gases in vehicle emissions. Few states understand the potential and current impacts of global warming better than the state of California, blah, blah, blah............
Available at "action.foe.org".
Shall I top it off with clown472's "unbiassed media" where the top brass at everyone's beloved Communist News Network sent word down to the newsroom to cover this with a direction to support next week's show they have planned on Global Warming?
Yet I, who directed my aim at fools who FIGHT the clearing of brush areas, which is A ROOT CAUSE of the severityt of these fires, get accused of making political hay.
Nice blinders ultra. PINHOLE glasses with straw-tunnell attatchments.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

(Somebody maybe will have to 'splain it to him, Okay????:devil: )
I'll use small words, big ones confuse him. No prob tex. :D

[Boatcop]

What I heard on the news last night was that there is not enough communication with the state/locals and the military to utilize those assets in these types of circumstances. Would the military be able to take orders from the local fire chief?
Short answer is YES.
Look up the Incident Command System. An Incident Command is set up in things like that, with 1 Incident Commander calling the shots. In a series of similar events, like the numerous fires in the Southland, there is a regional center keeping abreast of all the incidents, and shifting resources, as they're released from one incident and needed at another (at the request of the local Incident Command).
The Incident Commander might not even be from the particular area, but someone with considerable experience in managing incidents, especially ones of this magnitude. They are advised by locals, but THEY ALONE have ultimate authority over the fire. More that 1 Incident Commander may be assigned, in what's called "Unified Command", but that's giving responsibility for different functions. 1 for fire, 1 for Law Enforcement, etc. They jointly make decisions on the Incident.
Every Resource (Local, State, Federal, Military, etc) assigned to an Incident answers to the Incident Commander.
When one of our local towns flooded a few years ago, we (the County Sheriff's Office) were covering Incident Command, and we had Marine Corps Helos, National Guard Blackhawks, Army Corps of Engineers heavy equipment, Medical, Red Cross, along with our own personnel, equipment and resources, all answering to a lowly Sheriff's Captain.
Do a search on "Incident Command System" and see what kind of procedures are in place for things like this. It doesn't matter if it's a tanker overturning on the Freeway, a Katrina magnitude hurricane, or Southern California up in flames. The system (if it's followed) works and works well.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I think part of my confusion is with the difference between here in LA county and SD county. The county FD here swings a big stick and from what my brother told me when he worked for them they called the shots. You mentioned before that you had problems with some local tree huggers about clearing brush, here the County FD comes by and cites you if you don't, then they'll clear it and add the bill to your property tax.:D
Not sure you are confused. Sleeper's comments have not related to LAFD or SDFD, they have related to the California Department of Forestry and Fire. SDFD has similar requirements to those of us in Orange and Los Angeles Counties, with regard to bursh control.
I am still curious to hear from Scp the reasons why CDF grounded military pilots from assisting.

[Schiada76]

As it SHOULD be Schiada.
:D
Sleeper has me wondering though. Why so many structure losses in SD county? Terrain, tactics, bureaucracy or damn hippies.:D

[Schiada76]

Not sure you are confused. Sleeper's comments have not related to LAFD or SDFD, they have related to the California Department of Forestry and Fire. SDFD has similar requirements to those of us in Orange and Los Angeles Counties, with regard to bursh control.
I am still curious to hear from Scp the reasons why CDF grounded military pilots from assisting.
I don't think SD county has a FD, LAFD and LACFD are different entities.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

That's it W lit the f'n fires, I forgot that one.
MSNBC beat you to it, Tuesday Night.
On Tuesday evening, MSNBC's Dan Abrams set up an interview with California Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-Cal.) thusly:
But the fire storms in California`s raising tough questions about what the National Guard is extended too much to handle emergencies at home.
Wed AM, CNN hopped in.
On Wednesday morning, CNN's John Roberts asked a similar question of FEMA Administrator David Paulison:
Senator Barbara Boxer from California is complaining that because the National Guard from California is engaged in the war in Iraq, there were not enough members from the National Guard to respond to this fire. What do you say to that?
The MRC's Kyle Drennen reported Wednesday that CBS's Hannah Storm asked roughly the same question of Paulison on today's "Early Show."
Not to be outdone, the good folks at the New York Times are already making the Katrina connection in an article published Wednesday entitled "With Katrina Fresh, Bush Moves Quickly."
And, as NewsBuster Scott Whitlock transcribed Wednesday, ABC's Claire Shipman asked the following of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on "Good Morning America": So, you think the comparison to Katrina that everybody's making in the back of their mind these days is a good one in terms of state and federal."
CNN, CBS, and NBC already blamed them on Global Warming tho, The Iraq War is seccond gear I guess.
And I am the one making it into politics. :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Some facts for you guys out of the area.
You can all give me all of the sh*t that you would like. The folks on the front lines here kicked some serious fire ass. I can leave the politics out of this disaster, can't the rest of you?
Harris Fire
Harris Ranch Road & Hwy 94
San Diego County
This fire has burned 81,100 acres and is 10 percent contained. The fire started October 21 and is burning at Harris Ranch Road and both sides of Highway 94 in Portrero in San Diego County. There have been 25 civilian injuries and one death as well as seven firefighter injuries on this fire. An estimated 200 homes have been destroyed or damaged. 1,500 homes are still threatened.
4500 people have been evacuated and additional evacuations are being ordered. The communities of Chula Vista, San Diego, San Miguel, Portrero, Barrett Junction, Barett Lake area, Engineer Springs, Dulzura, Deerhorn Valley, Lawson Valley, Jamul, Lyons Valley and homes along Millar Ranch Road are threatened. 1,611 firefighters are assigned under unified command. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $3.4 million. Harris Fire Information Line (619) 590-3160.
Evacuation Order in place for communities of Lawson Valley and Carveacre 10/25/07
Harris Fire Fact Sheet 10/25/07 AM
Harris Fire Evacuation Order Lifted for Residents in the Otay Lakes and Thousand Trails Area 10/25/07
Harris Fire Evacuation Warning 10/24/07
Witch Fire
Witch Creek Area East of Ramona
San Diego County
This fire has burned 197,990 acres and is 20 percent contained. Mandatory evacuations are in place for the community of Julian and there is still a threat to Pine Hills, Cuyamaca, Wynola, Santa Ysabel, Alpine, and Harbison Canyon. Fire progression has slowed to the west, southwest, and northwest. Residents are being allowed to return to portions of the communities of Poway, Escondido, Rancho Santa Fe, San Diego and Rancho Bernardo. Wildcat Canyon is closed. Highway 67 is closed from Poway to Ramona.
645 homes, 30 commercial properties, and 50 outbuildings have been destroyed. 250 homes, 10 commercial properties and 50 outbuildings have been damaged. 5,000 residences, 1,500 commercial properties, and 300 outbuildings are currently threatened. 22 firefighters have been injured on this fire. 2,619 firefighters are assigned to this incident under unified command. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $5.3 million. Witch Fire Information Line (619) 590-3160.
Poomacha Fire
Highway 76, Pauma Valley
San Diego County
This fire started October 23 as a structure fire on the Lajolla Indian Reservation. It has burned 35,000 acres and is 20 percent contained. 50 homes have been destroyed and 2,000 homes are threatened currently.
Evacuations are in progress in Valley Center. The communities of Valley Center, Rincon, Pauma Valley, Hidden Meadows, Deer Springs, Vista and Palomar are threatened. This fire has resulted in 12 firefighter injuries. 859 firefighters are currently assigned to this fire under unified command with CAL FIRE and the Cleveland National Forest. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $950,000. Poomacha Fire Information Line (760) 751-7600.
Slide Fire
San Bernardino National Forest
Green Valley Lake near Running Springs
San Bernardino County
This fire has burned 11,600 acres at Green Valley Lake near Running Springs in San Bernardino County and is currently 10 percent contained. 200 homes and 3 outbuildings have burned.
10,000 homes continue to be threatened. The entire community of Green Valley was surrounded by the fire and was evacuated. More than 2,000 people are at evacuation centers. Mandatory evacuations are also in place for Running Springs, Fredalba, Green Valley Lake, and Arrow Bear. The communities of Live Oak, Smiley Park, Running Spring, Cavalry Chapel Camp, National ChildrenÂ’s Forest and Visitors Center, Arrowbear Lake, Snow Valley and Nordic Rim Ski Areas and Deer Lick are all threatened. All roads into the mountain communities are closed.
1,359 firefighters currently are assigned to this fire under unified command. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $2.5 million. Slide Fire Information Line (909) 383-5688.
Grass Valley Fire
San Bernardino National Forest
San Bernardino County
This fire has burned 1,100 acres and is 40 percent contained. The fire is northwest of Lake Arrowhead. 100 structures have been lost, and more than 6,000 homes remain threatened. There are mandatory evacuation for areas from Crestline to Snow Valley. Voluntary evacuations are in place for Cedar Pines Park and Valley of Enchantment. Evacuation Center have been established at the National Orange Show in San Bernardino and Victorville Fairgrounds in Victorville.
State Highway 18 is closed from 40th/Waterman to the Big Bear Dam, State Highway 330 is closed at Highland to Hwy 18, State Highway 138 is closed at State Highway 173. Residents may leave via these highways (except 330) but cannot go back up into the Mountains. Access to Big Bear is via Hwy 38 from I-10 in Redlands or from Hwy 18 through the Hi-Desert in Lucerne Valley.
1,020 firefighters are assigned to this incident. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $2 million. Grass Valley Fire Information Line (909) 383-5688.
Santiago Fire
Santiago Canyon Road at Silverado Canyon Road
Orange County
This fire has burned 23,000 acres and is now 30 percent contained. The fire is burning at Santiago Canyon Road and Silverado Canyon Road in Irvine, Orange County. 3,000 homes are threatened in the communities of Silverado, Modjeska, Trabuco, Live Oak, Williams, Holy Jim, and Cleveland National Forrest. Fourteen homes and eight outbuildings have been destroyed. Highway 241 is closed from Santiago Canyon to Highway 133. Portola Parkway and portions of Jamboree Road in Irvine are closed. 1,060 people are assigned to this incident and four firefighter injuries have been reported. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $2.75 million.
The Santiago Fire has been determined to be arson-caused. Santiago Fire Information Line (714) 573-6200.
Horno/Ammo Fire
Camp Pendleton
San Diego County
The Horno/Ammo Fire has burned 17,000 acres since October 23. It is currently 40-50 percent contained. The Horno Fire has two heads, one north bound tied into Basilone Road and the other south bound tied into Aliso Canyon Road. Firing Operations are being conducted on the northern head from San Onofre to Camp Horno and along Canyon Road to Bailone Road. For information on area relocations, please contact the Horno/Ammo Fire Information Line at (866) 430-2764.
Rice Fire
Rice Canyon
San Diego County
This fire has burned 9,000 acres in Rice Canyon in Northern San Diego County and is 30 percent contained. 206 homes, 2 commercial properties and 40 outbuildings have been destroyed. 400 homes are threatened currently. Evacuation orders are in effect for Fallbrook and outlying areas affecting 35,000 residents. One firefighter injury has been reported. Fire spread has slowed due to decreased winds, however, the fire has potential for increased growth. 1,095 firefighters are assigned to this fire under unified command. The estimated cost of this fire is $1.2 million. Rice Fire Information Line (619) 590-3160.
Ranch Fire
Angeles National Forest
Los Angeles County
This fire has burned 55,756 acres since October 20 and is 70 percent contained. The fire is burning six miles north of Castaic in Los Angeles County. All evacuations have been lifted. One home and eight outbuildings have been destroyed. 905 personnel are assigned to this incident and one firefighter has been injured. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $7 million. Ranch Fire Information Line (626) 821-6700.
Canyon Fire
Malibu Canyon
Los Angeles County
This fire has burned 4,200 acres and is 85 percent contained. Evacuations have been lifted. 22 structures have been damaged or destroyed. Three injuries have been reported. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $4.2 million. Canyon Fire Information Line (323) 881-2411.
CONTAINED
Cajon Fire
I-15/Kenwood in Devore
San Bernardino County
This fire started October 22 and has burned 250 acres. The fire is 100 percent contained. Cajon Fire Information line (909) 383-5688.
Rosa Fire
Near Temecula
Riverside County
This fire burned 411 acres and is 100 percent contained. Two outbuildings were destroyed by this fire. Evacuations have been lifted and residents may return to their homes. All roads are open. 223 firefighters are assigned to this incident. The cause of this fire is arson. Rosa Fire Information Line (951) 940-6985.
Sedgewick Fire - FINAL
Brinkerhoff Rd/Sedgewick Ranch/ Figueroa Mountain
Santa Barbara County
This fire, caused by arching power lines, burned 710 acres and is now 100 percent contained. 30 personnel are assigned to this fire. Sedgewick Fire Information Line (805) 681-5546.
Coronado Hills Fire - FINAL
South of Cal State San Marcos
San Diego County
This fire started October 22 and burned 250 acres south of Cal State San Marcos in San Diego County. Two outbuildings were destroyed in Discovery Hills and San Marcos. It is now 100 percent contained. Coronado Hills Fire Line (619) 590-3160.
Roca Fire
East of Temecula
Riverside County
The Roca Fire burned 270 acres since October 21 and is 100 percent contained. All evacuation orders have been lifted.One home was destroyed and one injury was reported. Roca Fire Information Line (951) 940-6985.
Walker Fire
Northwest of Lake Arrowhead
San Bernardino County
This fire burned 160 acres northwest of Lake Arrowhead in San Bernardino County and is now 100 percent contained. The evacuation center is now closed. Four engines remain on scene. Walker Fire Information line (909) 383-5688.
McCoy Fire
Cleveland National Forest
San Diego County
This fire burned 300 acres and is 100 percent contained. The fire started October 21 in the Boulder Creek/Eagle Peak area of San Diego County. One residence and one outbuilding were destroyed. McCoy Fire Information Line (619) 590-3160.
Wilcox Fire
Camp Pendleton
San Diego County
This 100 acre fire on Camp Pendleton is now 100% contained. Wilcox Fire Information Line (866) 430-2764.
Meadowridge Fire
Santa Clarita - 14 Freeway, San Fernando
Los Angeles County
This 40 acre fire began at 12:30 October 23 and is now 100 percent contained. No communities are currently threatened. 182 firefighters are assigned to this fire under Los Angeles County command. Meadowridge Fire Information Line (323) 881-2411.
Buckweed Fire
Mint Canyon Road at Sierra Hwy
Los Angeles County
This fire burned 38,356 acres and is 100 percent contained. The fire started October 21 and is burning at Mint Canyon Road and Sierra Highway in Los Angeles County toward Magic Mountain. Residents may return to their homees. Roads are open except for Bouquet Canyon at Vasquez and Vasquez at Sierra due to bridge damage. 21 homes and 22 outbuildings were destroyed and 15 homes were damaged. Three civilians and one firefighter were injured. 874 firefighters are assigned to this incident. The estimated cost of this fire to date is $5.8 million. Buckweed Fire Information Line (323) 881-2411.
Magic Fire - FINAL
Old Cross Road at Magic Mountain Parkway
Los Angeles County
The Magic Fire has burned 2,824 acres since October 22 and is now 100 percent contained. 5 Los Angeles County firefighters are assigned to this fire. Magic Fire Information Line (323) 881-2411.
Martin Fire
Martin Ranch Road at Meyers Road
San Bernardino County
This fire in the San Bernardino National Forest began at 9 a.m. October 23 and has burned 123 acres. It is 100 percent contained. 77 firefighters are assigned to this incident under unified command and one firefighter injury has been reported. One home has been damaged. No structures are threatened at this time. All evacuation notices have been lifted.
Nightsky Fire - FINAL
2 miles south of Moorpark
Ventura County
This fire is in Ventura County and began at 10:35 a.m. October 21 and burned 35 acres. It is 100 percent contained.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I am still curious to hear from Scp the reasons why CDF grounded military pilots from assisting.
He did, previous page.
At least ONE of us was paying attention.
Here's the text of the meeting at CNN, Jon Klein.
Morning Meeting Minuites (http://www.drudgereport.com/flash6.htm)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

He did, previous page.
At least ONE of us was paying attention.
Here's the text of the meeting at CNN, Jon Klein.
Morning Meeting Minuites (http://www.drudgereport.com/flash6.htm)
He hasn't been back since the question was asked.

[Boatcop]

The difference between Katrina and the California Wildfires is that Southern California was prepared.
In any major incident, it takes time to put the Command System in place, and muster resources. That's why ALL levels of emergency services and political subdivisions (Cities, Counties, States, etc) are told that you're on your own for 36 hours, and you'd better be ready to sustain yourselves for that time.
While Ray "School Bus" Nagen and Kathleen Blanco were wringing their hands and crying "Where's da Gubmint", The Citizens and local Agencies in Southern California stepped up to the plate and took care of their own.

[Schiada76]

The difference between Katrina and the California Wildfires is that Southern California was prepared.
In any major incident, it takes time to put the Command System in place, and muster resources. That's why ALL levels of emergency services and political subdivisions (Cities, Counties, States, etc) are told that you're on your own for 36 hours, and you'd better be ready to sustain yourselves for that time.
While Ray "School Bus" Nagen and Kathleen Blanco were wringing their hands and crying "Where's da Gubmint", The Citizens and local Agencies in Southern California stepped up to the plate and took care of their own.
Exactly!:D
Thanks for the ICS info.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

He hasn't been back since the question was asked.
You ignored his spelling it out BEFORE you asked your question, then had to ask.
Had you not, you could have wasted less time you didn't get paid for.

[Sleeper CP]

Be a sport and provide us withe BS reason CDF has used for grounding the military pilots, please.
.
There is a difference between the reason stated and the real reason(s).
The reason stated is the communication issue: They don't want the planes to run into each other etc. etc. Which sounds good on the surface, but why not just allow the Military Heilo's fly together and stay away from CDF.
The other reason, not stated are: Control and $$$$$.
On the control issue:
A County Supervisor here in San Diego County was told by a CDF official flat out" They don't let us fight their war's, we don't let them fight our fire's " This was said to Supervisor Bill Horn when he was trying to get CDF to request assistance from the Military on the Cider fire. It seems that CDF considers the words request assistance as we've failed. Their "F"ing ego's get in the way of common since.
The other reason of $$$$$(money) is two fold:
One side of that coin is the CDF wants to use contractors that they have relationship's with to fight the fire's. I have a friend that built a 6x6 water truck a few years ago and got it CDF certified. It makes real good money when it is working. I'm not sure if any plane's are on contracts or if they are all CDF owned. I do know that some years ago a guy owned a converted Catalina PBY that crashed on San Vaciente reservoir he was a private contractor that got paid to fly the fires. That may well be part of the problem because some of the Helio's are contracted out. So is CDF protecting friends or preferred contractor's. If they call in the military there will be less work for other's to do.
The other side of the coin is this: Budget
If the CDF uses the US Military that we the tax payers have already paid for the Military does not bill CDF for the cost. If the Military doesn't bill the CDF the CDF can't grow it's bureaucracy. And you should know: A bureaucracy that doesn't grow is a bureaucracy that is dying. It comes down to budget. By using the military equipment it will reduce the CDF budget and that is "death" for a bureaucrats.
More than just my .02
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The difference between Katrina and the California Wildfires is that Southern California was prepared.
In any major incident, it takes time to put the Command System in place, and muster resources. That's why ALL levels of emergency services and political subdivisions (Cities, Counties, States, etc) are told that you're on your own for 36 hours, and you'd better be ready to sustain yourselves for that time.
While Ray "School Bus" Nagen and Kathleen Blanco were wringing their hands and crying "Where's da Gubmint", The Citizens and local Agencies in Southern California stepped up to the plate and took care of their own.
Absolutely
There is a difference between the reason stated and the real reason(s).
The reason stated is the communication issue: They don't want the planes to run into each other etc. etc. Which sounds good on the surface, but why not just allow the Military Heilo's fly together and stay away from CDF.
The other reason, not stated are: Control and $$$$$.
On the control issue:
A County Supervisor here in San Diego County was told by a CDF official flat out" They don't let us fight their war's, we don't let them fight our fire's " This was said to Supervisor Bill Horn when he was trying to get CDF to request assistance from the Military on the Cider fire. It seems that CDF considers the words request assistance as we've failed. Their "F"ing ego's get in the way of common since.
The other reason of $$$$$(money) is two fold:
One side of that coin is the CDF wants to use contractors that they have relationship's with to fight the fire's. I have a friend that built a 6x6 water truck a few years ago and got it CDF certified. It makes real good money when it is working. I'm not sure if any plane's are on contracts or if they are all CDF owned. I do know that some years ago a guy owned a converted Catalina PBY that crashed on San Vaciente reservoir he was a private contractor that got paid to fly the fires. That may well be part of the problem because the Helio's are contracted out. So is CDF protecting friends or preferred contractor's. If they call in the military there will be less work for other's to do.
The other side of the coin is this: Budget
If the CDF uses the US Military that we the tax payers have already paid for the Military does not bill CDF for the cost. If the Military doesn't bill the CDF the CDF can't grow it's bureaucracy. And you should know: A bureaucracy that doesn't grow is a bureaucracy that is dying. It comes down to budget. By using the military equipment it will reduce the CDF budget and that is "death" for a bureaucrats.
More than just my .02
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp, thanks for taking the time to answer the question and for your opinion. I appreciate it.

[Boatcop]

There is a difference between the reason stated and the real reason(s).
The reason stated is the communication issue: They don't want the planes to run into each other etc. etc. Which sounds good on the surface, but why not just allow the Military Heilo's fly together and stay away from CDF.
The other reason, not stated are: Control and $$$$$.
On the control issue:
A County Supervisor here in San Diego County was told by a CDF official flat out" They don't let us fight their war's, we don't let them fight our fire's " This was said to Supervisor Bill Horn when he was trying to get CDF to request assistance from the Military on the Cider fire. It seems that CDF considers the words request assistanceas we've failed. Their "F"ing ego's get in the way of common since.
The other reason of $$$$$(money) is two fold:
One side of that coin is the CDF wants to use contractors that they have relationship's with to fight the fire's. I have a friend that built a 6x6 water truck a few years ago and got it CDF certified. It makes real good money when it is working. I'm not sure if any plane's are on contracts or if they are all CDF owned. I do know that some years ago a guy owned a converted Catalina PBY that crashed on San Vaciente reservoir he was a private contractor that got paid to fly the fires. That may well be part of the problem because the Helio's are contracted out. So is CDF protecting friends or preferred contractor's. If they call in the military there will be less work for other's to do.
The other side of the coin is this: Budget
If the CDF uses the US Military that we the tax payers have already paid for the Military does not bill CDF for the cost. If the Military doesn't bill the CDF the CDF can't grow it's bureaucracy. And you should know: A bureaucracy that doesn't grow is a bureaucracy that is dying. It comes down to budget. By using the military equipment it will reduce the CDF budget and that is "death" for a bureaucrats.
More than just my .02
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Some of what you say may be true, but CDF, local/County fire depts. Counties, and all (non-Fed) entities working an incident like this will be paid through FEMA and Federal Coffers. That's what happens when "State of Emergency" status is assigned.
Let's say a fire truck and crew from Fontucky goes to Palomar to help with the fire, and the truck has to abandoned and gets burned up.
Do the Palomar locals or Fontucky City Hall have to pay for a new fire truck? No. FEMA buys them a brand new pumper.
That's one of the reasons ICS was developed. To be able to bring in the "best use" resources, without burdening the local economy.
And, to some extent, to keep politics off the fire line.

[Old Texan]

You can all give me all of the sh*t that you would like. I can leave the politics out of this disaster, can't the rest of you? [/I]
"Air America", eat your heart out. Geraldo is feeling the "heat" with ol' Ultra out there on the front line "sans politico".....:devil:
Gotta go, the ball game's starting over here, I'm "out of my element" again.
Hey Smokin', how hot does tinfoil get before it melts? I can just see one of those big ol' firemen helmets all bright and shiny.....:devil:
(Sorry UJ, couldn't resist.:D )

[ULTRA26 # 1]

"Air America", eat your heart out. Geraldo is feeling the "heat" with ol' Ultra out there on the front line "sans politico".....:devil:
Gotta go, the ball game's starting over here, I'm "out of my element" again.
Hey Smokin', how hot does tinfoil get before it melts? I can just see one of those big ol' firemen helmets all bright and shiny.....:devil:
(Sorry UJ, couldn't resist.:D )
:D :D

[Sleeper CP]

Some of what you say may be true, but CDF, local/County fire depts. Counties, and all (non-Fed) entities working an incident like this will be paid through FEMA and Federal Coffers. That's what happens when "State of Emergency" status is assigned.
Let's say a fire truck and crew from Fontucky goes to Palomar to help with the fire, and the truck has to abandoned and gets burned up.
Do the Palomar locals or Fontucky City Hall have to pay for a new fire truck? No. FEMA buys them a brand new pumper.
That's one of the reasons ICS was developed. To be able to bring in the "best use" resources, without burdening the local economy.
And, to some extent, to keep politics off the fire line.
Exactly, my point non-Fed. Contractor's bill Cal -Fed.
My friend with the water truck doesn't bill FEMA, he bill's Cal-Fed and Cal- Fed probably passes it on and gets re-reimbursed.
Sleeper CP

[3 daytona`s]

I get so :mad: every time these events happen,If you wish to live in hurricane Florida,fire,earthquake,flood and God knows what else California God bless you but that is your choice and I do not care, no if`s,and`s or but`s, That being said have insurance take measures to cover the problems that "WILL" happen and do not come crying to the rest of the country when the inevitable SHIT happens:rolleyes:

[Sleeper CP]

Scp, thanks for taking the time to answer the question and for your opinion. I appreciate it.
No problem by the way. It's just my .02 ,but in our family owned business I deal with a lot of pen-headed bueracrat's and believe me there is a huge difference between those fighting on the front lines and those being road block's.
I have also had the despleasure of dealing with agencies in time of need/emergency and I can say some are just flat out asshole's. You think Rush is an asshole, have you ever come across a pen-headed bueracract with a chip on their shoulder:idea: , Holy phuck:idea: :mad: :mad:
. The system (if it's followed) works and works well.
Key point, "if it's followed". This is their third bite at the apple and they still can't get it right. It's really not that hard to ask the military to join in the fight. The military pilot's do the same job and have been doing it well on their bases without any problem's. So if it's not about protecting turf or budget impact, then the CDF brass are bigger asses than I already think they are.:(
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ULTRA26 # 1]

No problem by the way. It's just my .02 ,but in our family owned business I deal with a lot of pen-headed bueracrat's and believe me there is a huge difference between those fighting on the front lines and those being road block's.
I have also had the despleasure of dealing with agencies in time of need/emergency and I can say some are just flat out asshole's. You think Rush is an asshole, have you ever come across a pen-headed bueracract with a chip on their shoulder:idea: , Holy phuck:idea: :mad: :mad:
Key point, "if it's followed". This is their third bite at the apple and they still can't get it right. It's really not that hard to ask the military to join in the fight. The military pilot's do the same job and have been doing it well on their bases without any problem's. So if it's not about protecting turf or budget impact, then the CDF brass are bigger asses than I already think they are.:(
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp, Heard earlier that the local flyers and the military are on incompatible radio frequencies.
I have to deal with bureaucratic BS often, so I understand your frustration.

[Moneypitt]

Scp, Heard earlier that the local flyers and the military are on incompatible radio frequencies.
I have to deal with bureaucratic BS often, so I understand your frustration.
Holy shit, this is 2007. You're saying the morons can't fix that?.......Ham radio operators all over the world solved those problems back in the FORTIES, and here we have the age of cel phones that do everything except shine your shoes and they can't align radio frequencies!!!!! BULLSHIT..........It IS all about money and budgets and turf and egos.....Should be a standing order, the first sign of smoke, everything we have should be in the air and on the ground just as fast as we can scramble them......About 1500 home owners would probably agree........MP

[Boatcop]

Scp, Heard earlier that the local flyers and the military are on incompatible radio frequencies.
I have to deal with bureaucratic BS often, so I understand your frustration.
The key to correcting that is "interoperability". And yes, communications (or lack, thereof) is the downfall of ANY operation.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The key to correcting that is "interoperability". And yes, communications (or lack, thereof) is the downfall of ANY operation.
No doubt about that.

[Sleeper CP]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2860711]Scp, Heard earlier that the local flyers and the military are on incompatible radio frequencies. ]
:( Multi-million dollar aircraft and an additional radio would cost less than a tank of Jet-A fuel. And the phuck's can't figure that out. As I said earlier; my 11 year old could solve this problem :mad: But she would want to figure it out.
[QUOTE=Moneypitt;2860729]Holy shit, this is 2007. You're saying the morons can't fix that?.......Ham radio operators all over the world solved those problems back in the FORTIES, and here we have the age of cel phones that do everything except shine your shoes and they can't align radio frequencies!!!!! BULLSHIT..........It IS all about money and budgets and turf and egos.....Should be a standing order, the first sign of smoke, everything we have should be in the air and on the ground just as fast as we can scramble them......About 1500 home owners would probably agree........MP[/QUOTE
Ditto: :D :D
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

This is what continues to grate my asse about the NO Katina vitims that just keep moaning and groaning about "everything" being just about them. This Linda Jackson clown just knows it has to be "racism"........:rolleyes:
Maybe she ought to just try dealing with reality. Smart people prepare, stupid people live in NO's lower 9th Ward and "hope" others prepare.
Questions Raised About FEMAÂ’s Quick California Response
Some say wealth brings Californians preferential treatment.
By KTRH's Bill O'Neal
Friday, October 26, 2007
President Bush is downplaying questions about the differences in the response to the Southern California wildfires versus what happened in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina more than two years ago.
But the quick action is generating plenty of frustration in the “Big Easy,” where some say they can’t help but feel racism may be at play. “I will have to go along with that—if that’s the case, that’s kind of deep. I am shocked,” Lower Ninth Ward Homeowners Association president Linda Jackson told KTRH News.
In fact, Jackson said sheÂ’s still waiting for help from the Feds for her flood-ravaged neighborhood, and believes FEMA is teaming up with state and local officials in a cruel political game.
“They haven’t learned anything—They know what they want to do. They don’t want to see us back here anymore. They want to make this an industrial area,” Jackson said.
But others see different reasons behind the differences between New Orleans in 2005—and Southern California in 2007.
“This isn’t the first time these populations have been threatened by wildfires. They had the experience in 2003,” said Rice University Political Scientist Bob Stein, who also said the fact the fire victims are wealthier does make things a little easier. “These are homeowners, they are wealthy middle class people who have means—both in terms of access to transportation. They have the wealth to buy and or rent alternative housing.”
And, Stein also points to one other reason. “The Federal Government after the Katrina experience was not going to have another repeat of a rather slow response.”

[SmokinLowriderSS]

And, Stein also points to one other reason. “The Federal Government after the Katrina experience was not going to have another repeat of a rather slow response.”
Yet NOBODY has EVER talked about the nonexistant response from THE FIRST RESPONDERS, The State Of Louisiana, and The City Of New Orleans.

[Steve 1]

Yet NOBODY has EVER talked about the nonexistant response from THE FIRST RESPONDERS, The State Of Louisiana, and The City Of New Orleans.
They never will since Rats are the very roots of the Problem/Problems and the vast inferiority precludes any admission of guilt.
BUT a fresh day is on the Horizon! New Governor Guess they got tired of the Incompetence and waste, which is the hallmark of the DemocRat party.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

They can hope that La. doesn't suck the life out of the new one and change DOES occur.
Good luck.
They still wanted more of the same down in New Orleans. :idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

They never will since Rats are the very roots of the Problem/Problems and the vast inferiority precludes any admission of guilt.
BUT a fresh day is on the Horizon! New Governor Guess they got tired of the Incompetence and waste, which is the hallmark of the DemocRat party.
And you Steve are representative of the Republiclowns :D :D :jawdrop:

[Steve 1]

And you Steve are representative of the Republiclowns :D :D :jawdrop:
No But I see you are doing the Communist/DemocRat party proud! Anyway keep trying even a broken clock is right twice a day

[ULTRA26 # 1]

No But I see you are doing the Communist/DemocRat party proud! Anyway keep trying even a broken clock is right twice a day
That would be two more times that you Mr. Republiclown. :D :D

[Steve 1]

That would be two more times that you Mr. Republiclown. :D :D
But Ultra Pinko IQ 26 you hold the record for being wrong!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

But Ultra Pinko IQ 26 you hold the record for being wrong!
But Steveo the Repbliclown, has never been right. :confused: :confused:
Ultra Pinko IQ 26, kinda has a nice ring to it :D :D

[Steve 1]

But Steveo the Repbliclown, has never been right. :confused: :confused:
Ultra Pinko IQ 26, kinda has a nice ring to it :D :D
Pinko I made a mistake once! I thought I was wrong but was not.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Pinko I made a mistake once! I thought I was wrong but was not.
Another great post Steve. Please don't strain yourself.

[Steve 1]

Another great post Steve. Please don't strain yourself.
And if you had more Oxygen at birth all would be well also.

[Moneypitt]

I can feel the MMGW from these posts.........Both of you need to buy some of MY carbon offsets.......PM me for attached Forgiveness Vouchers, Relief of Guilt Coupons, and pricing info. .........If this forum's hot air could be harnessed we could power a small city for a long time, or a large city for a short time.......Now settle down and play nice, or recess will be canceled...MP

[Steve 1]

I can feel the MMGW from these posts.........Both of you need to buy some of MY carbon offsets.......PM me for attached Forgiveness Vouchers, Relief of Guilt Coupons, and pricing info. .........If this forum's hot air could be harnessed we could power a small city for a long time, or a large city for a short time.......Now settle down and play nice, or recess will be canceled...MP
LMAO good!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

No problem by the way. It's just my .02 ,but in our family owned business I deal with a lot of pen-headed bueracrat's and believe me there is a huge difference between those fighting on the front lines and those being road block's.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp, Just curious if things are settling down in SD. Most of the smoke has cleared here in OC. Possibility of rain tonight. :D

[Steve 1]

Scp, Just curious if things are settling down in SD. Most of the smoke has cleared here in OC. Possibility of rain tonight. :D
Do not take this the wrong way but I hope you get RAINED on.. Regards.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Do not take this the wrong way but I hope you get RAINED on.. Regards.
Me too. Thanks

[eliminatedsprinter]

Me too. Thanks
But not too much rain. The last thing they need is mudslides......:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

But not too much rain. The last thing they need is mudslides......:idea:
Just enough to clean the air. I agree the last thing we need is for it to pour.