What is drunk?

[Tom Brown]

For any of you who haven't been around a while and think these discussions about drinking are pretty out of hand, think again. We've had far more intense discussions than this.
I wonder how much research went into the .08 figure that seems to be the predominant legal definition here in North America. I assume a lot.
I know some alcoholics who can really knock back the booze and still seem pretty normal. Still, handle it as they may, I wouldn't want a good liquor holding alchy driving me around LA at 0.12. He might seem normal as hell and function better than the average guy and even drive well in that state, but I wouldn't trust his judgement in a squeeze.
.... so what level of impairment is acceptable? Surely, .00 is rubbish. If alcohol is that bad, perhaps it should be prohibited outright.

[Ultracrazy]

For any of you who haven't been around a while and think these discussions about drinking are pretty out of hand, think again. We've had far more intense discussions than this.
I wonder how much research went into the .08 figure that seems to be the predominant legal definition here in North America. I assume a lot.
I know some alcoholics who can really knock back the booze and still seem pretty normal. Still, handle it as they may, I wouldn't want a good liquor holding alchy driving me around LA at 0.12. He might seem normal as hell and function better than the average guy and even drive well in that state, but I wouldn't trust his judgement in a squeeze.
.... so what level of impairment is acceptable? Surely, .00 is rubbish. If alcohol is that bad, perhaps it should be prohibited outright.
The question should be what is impaired.

[Tom Brown]

Perhaps. That's not how I see it, however.
The question, perhaps better phrased, would be, "what level of impairment is drunk?"

[Mattman]

I have arrested numerous alcoholics with B.A.C.'s in the high two's. The last good one that comes to mind is a .28 on the breath. Also submitted to blood which came back higher (which is normally the case) at a .29. Walked, talked and acted like the everyday Joe. Told me his problem is so bad that he has to medicate (alcohol) every morning just to function on a daily basis.

[Ultracrazy]

Perhaps. That's not how I see it, however.
The question, perhaps better phrased, would be, "what level of impairment is drunk?"
True dat

[Riomouse911]

The NTSB did studies for years, and these studies found that the .08% figure is the point where the vast majority of adults lose the ability to multi-task... steer, observe, comprehend, maintain speed etc...That's a big reason why the Feds made that the standard across the country, and most (if not all) States abide by it.. (I think they lose highway funds, so they had little choice)
I've seen people lose motor function at an .04% (rookie drinker falling all over herself) and I have had a decent conversation with a guy who was a .44% / .43% on the breathalyzer.
In closing, being a slobbering drunk takes different folks different amounts of booze, but losing the fine motor control and ability to do more things at once (like driving) usually begins to seriously decline for most folks at .08.

[HavaSkank]

Drunk, by definition, is waking up with a shaved head in a dumpster behind Taco Bell next to Danny Bonaduce wearing your panties as a party hat.

[Boatcop]

Substantial testing and research has been done on this subect. The follwoing is a breakdown of that testing/research
Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC)
Typical Effects Predictable Effects on Driving
.02%
Some loss of judgment
Relaxation
Slight body warmth
Altered mood
Decline in visual functions (rapid tracking of a moving target)
Decline in ability to perform two tasks at the same time (divided attention)
.05%
Exaggerated behavior
May have loss of small-muscle control (e.g., focusing your eyes)
Impaired judgment
Usually good feeling
Lowered alertness
Release of inhibition
Reduced coordination
Reduced ability to track moving objects
Difficulty steering
Reduced response to emergency driving situations
.08%
Muscle coordination becomes poor (e.g., balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing)
Harder to detect danger
Judgment, self-control, reasoning, and memory are impaired
Concentration
Short-term memory loss
Speed control
Reduced information processing capability (e.g., signal detection, visual search)
Impaired perception
.10%
Clear deterioration of reaction time and control
Slurred speech, poor coordination, and slowed thinking
Reduced ability to maintain lane position and brake appropriately
.15%
Far less muscle control than normal
Vomiting may occur (unless this level is reached slowly or a person has developed a tolerance for alcohol)
Major loss of balance
Substantial impairment in vehicle control, attention to driving task, and in necessary visual and auditory information processing
Information in this table shows the BAC level at which the effect usually is first observed, and has been gathered from a variety of sources including the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the American Medical Association, the National Commission Against Drunk Driving, and www.webMD.com.
The above are the physiological factors. These are the legal factors:
Commercial Drivers, boat operators, and all airplane pilots:
.04%
Legally presumed impaired
Can suffer the loss of their commercial status or Pilot license
Non-Commercial Drivers / Boat Operators
.00 - <.05%
Legally presumed Not Impaired
.05%-<.08%
No legal presumption of impairment or non impairment. Can be found impaired based on other substantive tests. (driving pattern, balance, reation to divided attention tests)
.08% and above
Legally presumed Impaired

[blown65]

Mythbusters did a segment on this once. That show may not be the most accurate but some of its findings were quite interesting.

[Napanutt]

It's not what you blow the night before.
I don't think people realize that the hang-over the next morning,you still have alcohol content (higher then most people realize) blowing from your lungs...
I work with a very normal (alky I guess) guy, shows up everyday for 8 years blah,blah,blah...
Blew a .18 at 11 in the morning...from the night before.
If you're curious,buy a breathalyzer...

[hotsand65]

ME:)

[Boatcop]

How many people caught this story last week in the Havasu Herald?
Lake Havasu included in OUI study
By DAVID BELL
Friday, August 3, 2007 7:56 PM MST
A Southern California research firm is using activity on Lake Havasu in a study on how best to determine whether a boater is impaired by alcohol.
The Southern California Research Institute has been contracted by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators to develop and validate standardized field-sobriety tests for marine law environment.
“People can't always stand or walk on a boat,” said Dary Fiorentino, SCRI executive director. “We wanted a sense of water conditions and impact on officers.”
SCRI is the research firm that came up with the field-sobriety tests (FST) used by law enforcement on dry land. This is also the second time the firm looked at FSTs on the water. A study was initiated in 1992, also on Lake Havasu, but never completed.
“I don't believe there's a better place to do that sort of testing than right here where everything started,” said Mohave County sheriff's Lt. Randy Johnson. “I'm excited that they're finally doing this, the sheriff is excited, and we will offer any help we can.”
For this recent round of research, SCRI sent researchers to three locations: Lake Havasu, Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri and Atlantic Ocean beaches in South Carolina.
Johnson and Fiorentino credited Tim Baumgarten, law enforcement program manager for Arizona Fish and Game, with keeping Lake Havasu and Mohave County at the forefront of the study.
Baumgarten was unavailable for comment.
“I personally went to Lake Havasu June 21-23. I'd never been there before and it was very interesting,” Fiorentino said. “I saw hundreds and hundreds of people moored on the side of the river, drinking.”
Fiorentino said that made him realize that, at least for Lake Havasu tourists, drinking is a significant part of the boating experience.
“That's troublesome because at some point they have to go somewhere and then there are a lot of impaired operators out there,” he said.
Fiorentino praised the law enforcement agencies on Lake Havasu, saying they were the nation's leaders in identifying and dealing with boat operators impaired by alcohol.
“I also saw a bigger threat of drinking and boating in Arizona than other areas. So it's not surprising your officers are better prepared,” Fiorentino said.
“We're a step ahead because we participated in an initial study they did in '92,” Johnson said. “We adopted those preliminary tests years ago and have been using them ever since. Arizona teaches them in watercraft survival school.”
The study will take three years to complete. Using the data gathered in the three waterway visits, researchers will attempt to craft as many workable boating FSTs as possible. Some of the tests will involve motor skills, but the majority will be cognitive in nature.
In year two, SCRI will begin testing the tests. Volunteers will be dosed and tests conducted in a double-blind situation. In a double-blind test, neither the tester nor the subject is aware of which items are controlled.
Year two testing will be conducted at the SCRI research facility in Los Angeles.
In year three, with a series of FSTs that passed the controlled tests, officers will be trained and the tests conducted in the field.
“Year three will be to make sure of what works in the real world,” Fiorentino said.
That will lead to a series of standardized tests every law enforcement agency on any body of water can use when an operator is suspected of drunken boating.
The U.S. Coast Guard reported a 39 percent increase in alcohol-related boating fatalities between 1987 and 2005. But alcohol-related boating fatalities dropped 22 percent between 2002 and '05 as more boaters began designating a sober operator.
Maybe some of the ballers on here can volunteer to assist in the controlled study. I'm sure it would be a wake up call for everyone.

[Boatcop]

It's not what you blow the night before.
I don't think people realize that the hang-over the next morning,you still have alcohol content (higher then most people realize) blowing from your lungs...
I work with a very normal (alky I guess) guy, shows up everyday for 8 years blah,blah,blah...
Blew a .18 at 11 in the morning...from the night before.
If you're curious,buy a breathalyzer...
I arrested a guy last year at 10:00 AM who swore he hadn't had anything to drink that morning. I believed him. But he was still a .14%.
Later he told me that they quit drinking and went to bed at 4:00 AM. He had just up at 9:00 and took the boat out.
I stopped him because he came south around the point at Buckskin Park and swerved around a PWC that was about 10 feet off the cliff on the California side. He made 3 boats take evasive action, as he was way into the north bound side. He was about 20 feet off the buoyed swim area at Buckskin when I stopped him.

[HavasuSelect]

I have arrested numerous alcoholics with B.A.C.'s in the high two's. The last good one that comes to mind is a .28 on the breath. Also submitted to blood which came back higher (which is normally the case) at a .29. Walked, talked and acted like the everyday Joe. Told me his problem is so bad that he has to medicate (alcohol) every morning just to function on a daily basis.
Just out of curiosity...how were his behind the wheel skills? Was poor driving your probable cause to jam him?

[Kim Hanson]

For any of you who haven't been around a while and think these discussions about drinking are pretty out of hand, think again. We've had far more intense discussions than this.
I wonder how much research went into the .08 figure that seems to be the predominant legal definition here in North America. I assume a lot.
I know some alcoholics who can really knock back the booze and still seem pretty normal. Still, handle it as they may, I wouldn't want a good liquor holding alchy driving me around LA at 0.12. He might seem normal as hell and function better than the average guy and even drive well in that state, but I wouldn't trust his judgement in a squeeze.
.... so what level of impairment is acceptable? Surely, .00 is rubbish. If alcohol is that bad, perhaps it should be prohibited outright.
I was drinking with Holligan lastnight and dat is never good :D :D I think we all drank a shit load of booze and I think it was the everclear ( now why would some call shit that dat clear, your head is going to be cloudy, evercloudy sounds better ) I went to work focked up and had to drive 2hrs. to get to the rig.I am still hurting right now:( ..........( . )( . ).........

[Tom Brown]

I was drinking with Holligan lastnight and dat is never good :D :D I think we all drank a shit load of booze and I think it was the everclear ( now why would some call shit that dat clear, your head is going to be cloudy, evercloudy sounds better ) I went to work focked up and had to drive 2hrs. to get to the rig.I am still hurting right now:( ..........( . )( . ).........
If you and Hooli send me your t-shirt size, I'll send you each B.A.D.D. t-shirts. :cool:
It would be cool to hook up again one of these days, Kim. Is it my turn to be the designated driver this year, or yours? :D

[Kim Hanson]

If you and Hooli send me your t-shirt size, I'll send you each B.A.D.D. t-shirts. :cool:
It would be cool to hook up again one of these days, Kim. Is it my turn to be the designated driver this year, or yours? :D
It would be good to hook up again Tommy.........( . )( . )...........:D ;)

[Jbb]

It would be good to hook up again Tommy.........( . )( . )...........:D ;)
You two drunks should get a room...:rolleyes:

[Mattman]

Just out of curiosity...how were his behind the wheel skills? Was poor driving your probable cause to jam him?
He was stopped at an intersection waiting for the light to change. Unfortunately the light was already green and had been for quite some time. Did fairly well on his FST's the problem for him is the eyes don't lie. HGN (Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus) will give it away every time.

[shueman]

Quite a few people need a shot and two beers, just to get started in the morning. That's why some bars are open at 6:00am...

[Flyinbowtie]

For any of you who haven't been around a while and think these discussions about drinking are pretty out of hand, think again. We've had far more intense discussions than this.
I wonder how much research went into the .08 figure that seems to be the predominant legal definition here in North America. I assume a lot.
I know some alcoholics who can really knock back the booze and still seem pretty normal. Still, handle it as they may, I wouldn't want a good liquor holding alchy driving me around LA at 0.12. He might seem normal as hell and function better than the average guy and even drive well in that state, but I wouldn't trust his judgement in a squeeze.
.... so what level of impairment is acceptable? Surely, .00 is rubbish. If alcohol is that bad, perhaps it should be prohibited outright.
Tom;
I think the .08 standard is pretty accurate. Now, granted, after spending my career scraping up bodies and delivering death notifications, I may be a little skewed in my view.
"Impaired" is the operative word. People are different in many ways, base cognative and motor skill functions, etc. We all start out at different levels.
We all descend to the same "Impaired" level.
It takes different amounts of booze/drugs to get us there. Back when I was a rookie cop, I went to a cop-shop party with a DD and drank heavily. I considered myself DRUNK, not "impaired". Since it was a quiet night we stopped at the jail and just for giggles, I blew on the machine. I couldn't even read the printout.
I was an .09-.09; and I could barely walk, and had a massive hangover the next day.
Up in this neck of the woods, most of the people I stopped for DUI were DRUNK. The average, I'd guess, over 25 years and who-knows how many arrests was probaby a .18-20. People always performed the FST's with varying degrees of success. They seldom listen to the smart cop who tells them point blank, "Your ability to follow my directions on these tests is part of the test, too." Ultimately, the driving act witnessed by the cop which generated the probable cause for the stop and the Nystagmus test simply do not lie.
My level of comfort with impariment decreased as my body collection count increased, which increased my connection with my own mortality. Age has soomething to do with that as well. The direction I have given my sons, who are both driving, is that if they even suspect they are, "buzzed" to call me for a ride, no questions asked. If they are riding with someone who they think is buzzed, get out of the car and call, same deal.
Most people don't understand that by the time they feel, "Impaired" they long since passed that mark by legal definition. A squared away cop will always make his case based upon the quality of his report and the skill by which he documents the nature of his observations of the arrestee. The test is simply a conformation of those observations. "Impaired" can be proven at levels much lower than .08, as has been pointed out by Alan.

[EAZYKILLER2006]

if you're doing some crazy asz shait, you
wouldnt norally do...
then you probably drank more than you should have
but, then i thought that was the point...

[hoolign]

If you and Hooli send me your t-shirt size, I'll send you each B.A.D.D. t-shirts. :cool:
It would be cool to hook up again one of these days, Kim. Is it my turn to be the designated driver this year, or yours? :D
Just send me the shirt, Hanson can just use the docupac it comes in:D

[hoolign]

I was drinking with Holligan lastnight and dat is never good :D :D I think we all drank a shit load of booze and I think it was the everclear ( now why would some call shit that dat clear, your head is going to be cloudy, evercloudy sounds better ) I went to work focked up and had to drive 2hrs. to get to the rig.I am still hurting right now:( ..........( . )( . ).........
That was pure moonshine, best you'll find anywhere! We slept in till 09:30 - felt great! Had to head home to move jack asses truck away from, the shop door to rent the bobcat out....not impressedwith having to cut my daze off short!!! !

[wright27]

I am pretty much a daily beer drinker. The weird thing is, if I am at home and drink a 12 pack I am pretty damn hammered. If I drink a 12 pack on the water I feel a very slight change if any at all. I am not sure why, some say the sun, some say the ability to piss whenever the urge comes on. I have many times in the past sat at the sandbar drank 8 to 10 beers, got in my boat and drove away, and I do not say that with any pride at all.
After reading some of the threads this week, especially about the little girl who lost her life. It has hit me pretty hard. My wife and I have four kids and to think if I or someone else were to hurt or God forbid kill, I would not be able to go on.
I guess what I am trying to say is. The reading I have done on Hot Boat.com this week has changed the way I will be on the water for the rest of my life.

[EAZYKILLER2006]

I am pretty much a daily beer drinker. The weird thing is, if I am at home and drink a 12 pack I am pretty damn hammered. If I drink a 12 pack on the water I feel a very slight change if any at all. I am not sure why, some say the sun, some say the ability to piss whenever the urge comes on. I have many times in the past sat at the sandbar drank 8 to 10 beers, got in my boat and drove away, and I do not say that with any pride at all.
After reading some of the threads this week, especially about the little girl who lost her life. It has hit me pretty hard. My wife and I have four kids and to think if I or someone else were to hurt or God forbid kill, I would not be able to go on.
I guess what I am trying to say is. The reading I have done on Hot Boat.com this week has changed the way I will be on the water for the rest of my life.
Great post!
Hubby doesn't drink on the water,
unless someone hands him one
then he does
doesn't want to seem rude
but I hate when people offer him a beer again and again
when he has to drive the boat
I will just make us sleep on the boat
when that happens

[EAZYKILLER2006]

http://limos.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/9121017253/inlineimg/Y/fugly.jpg
lol
mike said you can drink them pretty, but
you cant drink them, THIN
After seeing this
i think he may want to rethink
that statement
lol

[MKEELINE]

http://limos.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/9121017253/inlineimg/Y/fugly.jpg
I just threw up in my mouth alittle bit.

[uvindex]

(A horrible image that makes baby Jesus cry. :D )How appropriate that the image's file name is fugly.jpg :)

[Kim Hanson]

That was pure moonshine, best you'll find anywhere! We slept in till 09:30 - felt great! Had to head home to move jack asses truck away from, the shop door to rent the bobcat out....not impressedwith having to cut my daze off short!!! !
I don't care what you call it, I think I came to holding the brake handle at around 5ish...It was really bad........( . )( . )............:D :D

[Classic Daycruiser]

For those bone headed people:
What is Drunk?
Answer: Drunk is when there is a "potential" for an individual to be hauled off to jail for an alcohol related incident. (If it were the old days, it would only have been a fine.)
How times can change the defination of a drunk:D :D :D

[Kim Hanson]

For those bone headed people:
What is Drunk?
Answer: Drunk is when there is a "potential" for an individual to be hauled off to jail for an alcohol related incident. (If it were the old days, it would only have been a fine.)
How times can change the defination of a drunk:D :D :D
Its definitions of drunk, there is focked up vision with 2 eyes seeing double ( then the good one comes into play ) closing one eye :D When that one is focked up...done drunk, plastered, cry to the toilet with your arse and buy as many headache medicine you can buy...........( . )( . )............

[SB]

If you can lie on the floor without holding on, your not drunk. :D
With respect to the LEO comments above, I have a few concerns.
We had a .10 standard, and prosecutors complained they weren't getting enough convictions, so it dropped to .08.
I'm not aware of any studies showing how many accidents there were or how many people died because of drivers who were between .08 and .10.
The alcohol level is just one factor. Some people get drunk and get suicidal, some people drink and get aggressive.
Also I know my limits. Some people don't. I think we do an adequate job of arresting and punishing those people.
The day I can't have a beer on my boat is the day I start a revolution.:idea: