Silly Olds story- Convert Olds to Chevy, Pontiac or Buick?

[Boostedballs]

1975 20' Kona. Factory Olds 455 (of course), Berkley, Place diverter, etc.
So here's the scoop- bought boat last year as a shell, installed new floor, carpet seats, upholstry, wiring, and olds 455 from some guy that says it runs good.
Installed 10quart pan and double remote oil filters, installed engine, fired right up, ran strong. J heads, yuk. Got 50-55mph out of it.
Made ticking, then BANGING sounds. I though there was a monkey with a hammer in the engine bay. Turnes out, there was no monkey per say. Compression checked good even though engine seemed to be running on 7 cylinders. The engine got the shakes.
Pulled intake, found crack in heat riser passage of aluminum edelbrock performer. Hmm
Noticed that a clip had come loose on one of the lifters and had been jumping around on the end of the push rod for long enough to rand the edges good. Ordered edelbrock performer cam and lifter kit.
Found some nice G heads to replace the J heads. Ported, polished them, sent them to maching shop.
Pulled J heads. Found that piston 1 and 3 have been hitting head lightly (could still see machine mark on piston). Looked at head, yep, it had been hitting the head. Hmm
Looked into bores again for wrist pin damage. Found none. Hmm, the oil pressure on this engine was always 40-60psi so I figure the bottom end is good.
Noticed that the pistons looked a little small for the bores! oh crap! I see rings and pistons rocked side to side about .060" estimated. Measured bores to be 4.125", that's standard bore! WTF? These are Olds-looking pistons with the 3/8" deep dish. Confused...
Now I'm looking into replacing the olds with something else, probably a 454 chevy. I do a lot of metal fab so I'm not worried about engine mounts or headers but I am wondering what parts I can use from the Olds on something else. I know the bell housing is the same for Olds, Buick and Pontiac. But what about the flywheel and U-joint? Does anyone know if the crank bolt pattern is the same for big block chevy and olds? I have a butload of smallblock chevy stuff, can I use a smallblock flywheel in a big block chevy? I know the distributor and bellhousing is the same for small and big block chevys, but what else?
I would like to slap on a couple turbochargers on whatever engine I throw in there and I know the big block chevy is a prime candidate for that, I've done a couple of them. I know power can be made with the Pontiacs and Buicks but?????
What do you think about all of this?
Chuck with bad luck in Oregon...

[pw_Tony]

Why you ruling out the Ford and Mopars? Both good contenders. You GM guys psh..... lol jk:D

[BrendellaJet]

Not a lot will cross over. Maybe the alternator & carb. Not sure if the distributor will work or not.

[Boostedballs]

I'm not ruling out the Fords, I like the up front distributor and the 460, 351c, 351w, 302 were great engines. I just have a lot more experience with the GM stuff. Hell, if money was not an issue- I'd be running a turbocharged Viper engine!
The distributors do interchange, carbs do of course, and I only run the GM alternator in just about everything I build. It's simple, cheap and reliable.
I was talking with a machinist about the olds and the way the pistons contacted the heads and told me that the olds main webs tend to give out and cause that. Hmm, I already KNOW someone put the wrong pistons in the engine. I wonder if the deck height of the pistons is wrong as well. Maybe the other pistons in the engine are running too tight as well...

[Oldsquirt]

The distributors do interchange,...
No, they don't.
Did you ever disassemble and inspect the short block?

[Boostedballs]

I meant the distributors interchange from sbc and bbc, not chevy into olds. I just wanted to see if I could put some of my shelf parts back to work.

[Boostedballs]

I just realized this forum is based out of Havasu! (right?) I lived there from 1998-2000. Man I miss it.
I used to work at JD machine before they burnt down.

[Boostedballs]

I haven't taken the short block out yet. I'll try to get that done this weekend. Should be a much easier job than instaling the long block. I had to jack the cherry picker up with blocks, let the air out of the trailer tires and jack the tounge all the way up to get the engine to clear on the way in. Talk about scary! If the short block is workable, I'll wait till it's back in to put the heads back on. I sure hope it's ok, there aren't many olds 455s around here and I already dumped some cash into it.

[malcolm]

Where in Oregon are you located?
I'd guess you've got some spun rod bearings making your pistons hit the heads. Maybe you also have some collapsed skirts on some old junky cast pistons in there making your slop in the bores. I've been Olds powered for 9 years now and they've always run pretty good. They don't like RPMs over 5000 and can't be held wide open for more than a couple minutes at a time without major mods. If you go to another brand, I'd stick with Chevy or Ford. No sense going to another engine with little aftermarket support.
I was toying with the idea of going to a 500 inch Caddie, but I came to my senses. ;)

[Oldsquirt]

I meant the distributors interchange from sbc and bbc, not chevy into olds. I just wanted to see if I could put some of my shelf parts back to work.
OK, I thought you were referring to being interchangeable among the various GM engines.
.......I'd guess you've got some spun rod bearings making your pistons hit the heads. Maybe you also have some collapsed skirts on some old junky cast pistons in there making your slop in the bores.
Yep. This is exactly what I was thinking when I asked if the short block had been inspected. As a mechanic, I've seen this scenario more than a few times through the years.......

[Boostedballs]

I'm located in the Beaverton area.
The olds that was in it would only turn 3100 rpm at best and that's at 50+mph. Turnes out that it had a 600cfm carb on it! What a joke. 5000rpm would make that boat scoot!
I'm thinking that the skirts may have collapsed like you said. I've never seen this much slop in a piston. Also- the odd bank is the one with really sloppy pistons and the piston slap. Makes sense because the area that contacted the head is at the top of the pistons and ONLY the top.
I know that going Pontiac or Buick would be weird, but they are a lot easier to find around here than the Olds are. Don't worry, that would be the last resort, even after going with a small block!

[malcolm]

That thing had some real issues if it would only spin 3100. :eek:
Don't forget, you can run almost ANY Olds in there! They're all pretty much interchangeable. I ran a small block 403 for years. Had it spinning 4600 and now my 455 turns 5K.

[Boostedballs]

I have some 403 heads and they look a LOT like the 455 heads. Could I run 455 heads on a 403?

[malcolm]

Yeah, there are guys running big block heads on 403s.
There's a bunch of us Olds powered boaters who post on realoldspower.com. ;)

[speedymopars]

My understanding is you can use Olds heads interchangably - however you may have intake fitment issues with stock manifolds. Edelbrocks can work if you port match them.
The question wasn't answered though what does it take?
Motor mounts, bellhousing, flywheel, and ????

[malcolm]

My understanding is you can use Olds heads interchangably - however you may have intake fitment issues with stock manifolds. Edelbrocks can work if you port match them.
The question wasn't answered though what does it take?
Motor mounts, bellhousing, flywheel, and ????
What question? I saw "what do you think about all this?" :D
As for changing over... You're on the right track. Add a dozen nickel and dime items and you're golden. ;)

[ck7684]

I say go for the Poncho 455!! Seems to me the Super Duty 455's would be excellent boat engines. I've seen a couple on a Pontiac site, but none yet on boating sites.
If you go with a chevy, the sbc and bbc flywheels are NOT interchangable...

[Boostedballs]

I say go for the Poncho 455!! Seems to me the Super Duty 455's would be excellent boat engines. I've seen a couple on a Pontiac site, but none yet on boating sites.
If you go with a chevy, the sbc and bbc flywheels are NOT interchangable...
Yes I've seen some Pontiacs with ground-pounding torque and I like being a little different. The BBC is my fav because of the availabilty and range of parts. Pontiacs seem a little scarce as far as finding blower pistons, etc.
So I would have to find a flywheel for a BBC if I go that route, nice to know. I wonder what size and weight I should go with. The one on the olds is massive!

[pw_Tony]

Remember the last engine masters Challenger small block fords took 5 out of the top 6 spots. And thats with BBC BBF and some mopars running against them. :D

[ck7684]

Remember, the internally balanced BBC's need the flywheel and the balancer in order to balance the rotating assembly. This MUST be done!!

[Boostedballs]

Remember the last engine masters Challenger small block fords took 5 out of the top 6 spots. And thats with BBC BBF and some mopars running against them. :D
I assume the Clevelands did the best?
I would be worried about installing something with less cubes in a jet. Some say "there's no replacement for displacement", while others say "forced induction is the replacement for displacement". I say there's no replacement for big cubes with forced induction.
I'm sure the Cleveland can handle the shock load of my boat jumping out of the water, but the Windsor I'm not too sure about.
Hmm, I found a reasonable deal on a complete olds 455 in Seattle. Just waiting to hear back about casting numbers, etc. That would be the easiest way to get this mofo back on the water before the Portland crap weather returns. Then I would have an extra 455 in the garage that would get lots of attention in the winter time. (assuming it's still good)
*differences in BBC flywheels noted

[speedymopars]

I assume the Clevelands did the best?
I would be worried about installing something with less cubes in a jet. Some say "there's no replacement for displacement", while others say "forced induction is the replacement for displacement". I say there's no replacement for big cubes with forced induction.
and a little NOS shot to top it off :sqeyes:

[malcolm]

Seattle proper or one of the suburbs? If it was close enough I could look at it for ya if you want. I'm NE of Seattle around 40 minutes.

[LakesOnly]

Silly Olds story- Convert Olds to Chevy, Pontiac or Buick?
None of the above. ;)
LO

[Boostedballs]

None of the above. ;)
LO
OK Henry;)
I see a ton of 429's and 460's around and I have very little experience with them. I did help build a pair of twin 460's for a tour boat in Havasu but that's about the extent of my experience with them. Whatever I decide to go with- it will be very low compression for a turbocharger setup later on down the road. The 429's seem to be a dime a dozen here, would they be a better candidate for the jet / turbo setup than the 460's?

[hotrod56cars]

I had an Olds 455 in my Rogers when I bought it. I switched to a BBC. On both engines I used Glenwood/Guardian engine mounts. I never moved the stringer feet. The rear engine mount bolted on with no issue's. The front engine mount was a 1/2" too far long so I made a couple of 1/2" thick aluminum spacers and that worked perfectly. Zero stringer modifications. The Olds distributor won't work on the BBC. About the only thing that I used was the altenator. Some BBC's are internally balanced and some are externally balanced, you got to know what you have. Use the same driveline on your BBC but you'll need a BBC PTO. If you buy a complete FelPro engine gasket set for an Olds V8 it lists all 1964 and newer Olds engines so... 350, 403, 455, uhmmm... Choose your make of engine carefully, they all have qualities about them.

[Boostedballs]

Seattle proper or one of the suburbs? If it was close enough I could look at it for ya if you want. I'm NE of Seattle around 40 minutes.
I have no idea where Marysville is. Thanks for your offer!
Here's the ad:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/392395251.html
This 455 olds F blk.and Ga heads is either marine or auto ready with a 700 tranny must sell???? O.B.O
Location: Marysville

[malcolm]

Marysville is 3 citys N of Seattle on I-5. It's still about 30 minutes away from me, but it's a little closer. :)
Have you talked to the guy? $800 or offer sounds pretty good if it doesn't have a panfull of metal shavings. ;)

[Boostedballs]

he just dropped the price to $600.

[malcolm]

Gettin' cheaper, have you found out what kind of runner it is?
I've got myself in deep this weekend, let me know if you want some local help with it. :)

[Boostedballs]

Gettin' cheaper, have you found out what kind of runner it is?
I've got myself in deep this weekend, let me know if you want some local help with it. :)
I'll be pulling the short block in a couple days and then we'll know if I must have the engine or not. The one he is selling is only a stack of parts- heads not torqued, etc. I guess I'll be able to tell if it has the right pistons in it or not!
I would love to have an extra engine for the boat. One mild and one wild.
How did you get yourself in too deep?

[Wet Dream]

Speaking from experience with the Olds motor, if you continue with the Olds...you'll be asking the same question again sooner than later. I know, the Olds can make a great motor, but if you're at a crossroads and can fab your rail kit...go with something else. I went Chevy and never regretted a minute of it.

[malcolm]

How did you get yourself in too deep?
Nothing too bad, just had to replace the fuel pump Friday night to get ready for the wife's family reunion on Saturday. Got that outta the way. Today will just be a normal day on the river. :D
Word to the wise, don't buy one of those Summit (Holley) fuel pumps for an Olds! They break right off the block after a few months of use. I paid a little more and bought one from robbmcperformance.com.
http://robbmcperformance.com/images/products/pumps/olds550.jpg

[Boostedballs]

I pulled the engine out yesterday and tore it down.
I noticed the problem right away after taking the oil pan off. Two (2) spun rod bearings on #3 and 5, same pistons that have been hitting the head. I think the builder had his head up his arse because the pistons were too small, and rod caps seemed loose. It's strange that I still had good oil pressure, I guess the side clearances were tight enough to hold the oil in???
I know that Mondello says to make a groove on the rods to let the oil flow out of the bearing. I guess I'll be doing that on the rods I install.
PS: anyone have an Olds crank, rods and maybe pistons for sale???
As far as engine selection- I'll stick with the olds for now since I have so much into it but the next time I come across a deal on a BBC, I'll build it for forced induction and do a quick swap when I have time.

[malcolm]

You need to go to realoldspower.com and start reading up on what to do to the bottom end to make it live in a boat.
I'd be curious what the piston clearance actually is/was? You'll need to run them loose or they will stick when they get hot. Same with the rods and mains. ;)

[Warp Speed]

Remember the last engine masters Challenger small block fords took 5 out of the top 6 spots. And thats with BBC BBF and some mopars running against them. :D
Ahhh, The old "Australian Windsor" rule again. :sleeping:
So he should put a small block ford in it?? :confused:

[Boostedballs]

I found a nodular crank today and the guy is shipping it to me for $150. He thinks it has been freshly turned and ready to install. SCORE!
Also, I'm going with the Chevy 454 for next time. I just found out that you can run them in a jet without a flywheel. That was the main deterrent for me buying one and not being able to find the right flywheel for the engine. All of the 454's I see are from auto-equipped cars and only have flexplates. I can't wait to see how a twin turbo 454 is going to run in my boat! The ultra-low compression probably won't care about not having the flywheel to keep things going smooth.
But soon I'll have everything I need to get the olds back together and the boat back on the water. Who knows, maybe I'll fall in love with the Olds and I'll have the 454 left over for a dragster project or something!

[ck7684]

So your sticking with the Olds? What difference does the flywheel make? I have a flexplate on my jet. If you needed a flywheel couldnt you just go buy one? Even a used one should work...

[malcolm]

I'm just running a flexplate of my Olds. No issues at all. Just revs up a tad quicker.

[Boostedballs]

I change my mind about as often as I change my underwear. (weekly)
I came across a 454 chevy today and the price was right. I tore into it and it looks pretty fresh. The corner of the block broke off and it looks like someone tried to repair it with a MIG welder! haha! It's the starter boss, which I don't think I need anyway and it was the reason I got it and the stand it was on for $350. The inside has zero sludge and no bearings in the pan! I think it's time to gather parts to convert to BBC!
The engine came with oval heads and an Edelbrock Tarantula intake for square heads. So I guess the intake is up for trade.