New To Jets

[GAWnCA]

Hi All,
Well, I've asked a few questions and seems they aren't the right questions, so I thought I better start over by telling you that I'm new to Jet Boats. I just picked up my first, last Tuesday. It's a 1975 Miller Jet/Ski boat, 19' long. In looking at the motor it looks to me like some hack has worked on it.
First thing I had to do was wire the trailer for lights. It was a total mess. Secondly, I moved to the bow of the hull and found 4 holes (matching on both sides) where it looks like cleats had once been installed. Well, my wife doesn't care for the color of the boat in the first place so I plugged 4 of the holes and mounted my own cleats for the time being. Looks kind of dumb but did fill 4 holes for the time being.
Then I moved on back to the engine compartment, where the spark plug wires were in such a bad state that several had been running on the headers were burnt. I replaced them with new and re-routed them so they don't touch now but I'm looking for some good loom solutions. The dist. cap and rotor were in fine shape so I just cleaned the gunk off and put them back.
Then, after looking at many boats on different forums, I moved to the water cooling system. It just doesn't make much since to me. Two of the hoses just loop back on themselves. I know this can't be right. There's no thermostat so I'm looking for suggestions as to correct this mess. Once I have this cleaned up, I've got to concentrate on the wiring harness. There are several wires that go to no where and were just hanging out in space. I put some silicon on them and then added some heat-shrink tubing until I can figure out what goes to what and if these loose wires are really needed.
Well, there you have it. My last boat was a 12' 6" Hogan Hydro, running a Merc MK 20 with a Quick Silver lower end. Would do about 55 to 60 mph. This was back in 1968-69.
Here's The Miller!
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/Miller_at_Home.jpg
Greg

['75 Miller]

Hello Greg. I too have a 1975 Miller, and I too had to deal with some of the same problems. Hatchet-job wiring, etc. There were so many splices and wires that went to nowhere I just ripped it all out and started from scratch.
What engine does your '75 have? Can you post some pics of it?

[GAWnCA]

Hello Greg. I too have a 1975 Miller, and I too had to deal with some of the same problems. Hatchet-job wiring, etc. There were so many splices and wires that went to nowhere I just ripped it all out and started from scratch.
What engine does your '75 have? Can you post some pics of it?
The engine is a 460 Ford. Sounds great and does start right up. Starts better now that the plug wires are like they are suppose to be.
Here's the front of the engine. I took this to show the plumbing mess.
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/EngineFrontPlumbing001.jpg
This is before I did the plug wires.
It's got an Edelbrock torker 460 manifold that Edelbrock tells me is not for a boat or marine use, then it's topped off with an Edelbrock 1407 4 bbl carb that is for street use. I think someone just had some BBF parts laying around or found them at the flea market. With time, and money, this thing will come together correctly, but for the time being, it runs.

[mlaines]

Welcome,
It looks like whoever did the water lines didn't have any 90's and installed T fittings on the inlets. You don't need them, take them off and install 90 deg fittings and that will take care of the inlet. You don't run a thermostat in a jet boat just the housing with 2 outlets. I looks like someone put a 4 outlet housing on there which you don't need. check this link at the bottom of the page there is a crude diagram that should help. also in the pic it shows a 2 outlet t-stat housing its on an Olds but they look the same. Good luck!!
http://www.bassettracing.com/newpage7.htm#Jet%20Water%20Injected%20Installation

['75 Miller]

Look at www.performancejet.com/techtalk.htm
They cover the issues of cooling and pressure pretty extensively, and clear enough for a dummy like me to understand!

['75 Miller]

Looks like he's got a bypass t-stat (4 ports) that's been bypassed. I'd keep it, just re-plumb correctly. Lose the 2 jumper hoses, supply the headers with water from another source like a tee off the jet, and add a dump in the transom.

[GAWnCA]

Well by looking at all the tech articles, I've got a mess and maybe should just start from scratch. Come from the jet pump to the face of the engine. I guess I should replace the 4 port therm. cover, since upon looking at it, it was jury-rigged as well. The mounting holes were re-drilled in order to fit the bolt pattern on the manifold. So, to start with where do I look for the proper therm. cover for the Edelbrock Torker 460 manifold? I'm afraid to pull the manifold it may have come off a Olds and ported and drilled to fit a Ford. :D
This would be a good time to clean out all the sludge in the bilge as well. Or take it out for at least a maiden blast.
Thanks

[mlaines]

you can post a thread in the spam section and ask if anyone has one, cause chances are someone does. or if you want a new one im sure rex marine or jet boat performance carries them.

[GAWnCA]

you can post a thread in the spam section and ask if anyone has one, cause chances are someone does. or if you want a new one im sure rex marine or jet boat performance carries them.
Thanks, I think I want to go new so I'll check those 2 places.

[Danhercules]

I just bought one from REX. I know he has em.

[GAWnCA]

I just bought one from REX. I know he has em.
Thanks and I may as well get the "L"bows at the same time.

[jetboatperformance]

Congratulations on your "project" Millers are nice boats (I've owned several)looks like you chosen a nice one !! I'm sure you'll enjoy the experience !! Tom

[gr16241]

Keep the thermostat - they work very well. The reason it has been drilled out is because it was probably for a Chevy 454 as they don't (or didn't) make them to fit the Ford big blocks. Inside the housing should be a spring and black plastic round piece along with the thermostat. You can get a plumbing diagram from Rex Marine.

[suckin&pumpin]

I found a buddy close by with a jet and looked at his ALOT for answers, Dont know where you are in nor cal but I am in Dixon and if you ever need to see somethin or need a hand just yell

[fleetimus]

You are more than welcome to haul it up to Colfax. I will give you a hand.

[GAWnCA]

Congratulations on your "project" Millers are nice boats (I've owned several)looks like you chosen a nice one !! I'm sure you'll enjoy the experience !! Tom
It seems like a well built boat just needs some of that TLC to bring it back into shape. I do hate it when people just make-shift fit things that do not belong with what they are working on. I'm a real stickler when it comes to wiring and when I see plug wires burned because they were allowed to hang on the headers, it just tells me someone was lazy.
The plumbing is in what I think is a mess and I don't like seeing hoses looped back on themselves just because the people were to lazy or too cheap to go get the correct fittings.
I do think, since it does run, I'll take it out just to make sure it doesn't have major hull problems.
Got any of the fittings I need? :)

[GAWnCA]

Keep the thermostat - they work very well. The reason it has been drilled out is because it was probably for a Chevy 454 as they don't (or didn't) make them to fit the Ford big blocks. Inside the housing should be a spring and black plastic round piece along with the thermostat. You can get a plumbing diagram from Rex Marine.
I pulled the thermostat housing and there' NOTHING inside there. I guess I'll just replace it with the housing that doesn't have a thermostat and call it good.

[rp14]

New to Jets also, just picked up a 25' 1977 Hawaiian Boats Cruiser with a Ford 460 and Jacuzzi YJ Jetdrive. It'll need some work on the floor, a good paint job and the engine freshened up.
I noticed a lot of locals here in N. California especially Sacramento.
I am in need of advice to what to put in my Ford 460 engine to give it a little more power if I really need it? The boat has been sitting for over 15 years and I'd like to remove the engine to freshen it up as well as add anything else to make it run better. I know I'll need the top end such as the carb and aluminum manifold, the heads will get new valve springs to match the new cam and possible roller rockers and tappets (if worth spending the money). New electrical, distrubitor, coil, etc. The bottom end looks like it could use new rings, won't know till I measure them.
The jet drive can be freshened up as well, any advice there?
I also need to fix or replace the trailer due to the jack giving away and bending the front of the trailer upwards about 10" or so.
Lot of work ahead of me and I think it'll be worth it. Basically I want to have everything in new or good condition to give me a piece of mind and not have a dead boat in the middle of the lake.
Hope this wasn't too long,
Ron

[GAWnCA]

I found a buddy close by with a jet and looked at his ALOT for answers, Dont know where you are in nor cal but I am in Dixon and if you ever need to see somethin or need a hand just yell
Howdy,
I'm in Sacramento. Thanks for the offer. I think I want to head out and get this thing wet before global warming sets in and we have too little water to drive on.
I've you've got some photos that would help.

[GAWnCA]

You are more than welcome to haul it up to Colfax. I will give you a hand.
Thanks for the offer. If push comes to shove, I just might take you up on that.

[GAWnCA]

New to Jets also, just picked up a 25' 1977 Hawaiian Boats Cruiser with a Ford 460 and Jacuzzi YJ Jetdrive. It'll need some work on the floor, a good paint job and the engine freshened up.
I noticed a lot of locals here in N. California especially Sacramento.
I am in need of advice to what to put in my Ford 460 engine to give it a little more power if I really need it? The boat has been sitting for over 15 years and I'd like to remove the engine to freshen it up as well as add anything else to make it run better. I know I'll need the top end such as the carb and aluminum manifold, the heads will get new valve springs to match the new cam and possible roller rockers and tappets (if worth spending the money). New electrical, distrubitor, coil, etc. The bottom end looks like it could use new rings, won't know till I measure them.
The jet drive can be freshened up as well, any advice there?
I also need to fix or replace the trailer due to the jack giving away and bending the front of the trailer upwards about 10" or so.
Lot of work ahead of me and I think it'll be worth it. Basically I want to have everything in new or good condition to give me a piece of mind and not have a dead boat in the middle of the lake.
Hope this wasn't too long,
Ron
How about some photos? Where in Sacramento are you? Does the engine run now?

[oldbuck40]

The engine is a 460 Ford. Sounds great and does start right up. Starts better now that the plug wires are like they are suppose to be.
Here's the front of the engine. I took this to show the plumbing mess.
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/EngineFrontPlumbing001.jpg
This is before I did the plug wires.
It's got an Edelbrock torker 460 manifold that Edelbrock tells me is not for a boat or marine use, then it's topped off with an Edelbrock 1407 4 bbl carb that is for street use. I think someone just had some BBF parts laying around or found them at the flea market. With time, and money, this thing will come together correctly, but for the time being, it runs.
just a note on the header plumbing! i can see where,,to make it simple looking straight at the motor see the right header pipe has alot more blue on it! thats because its starveing for water! reason is the hoses from the T need to be the exact same length,,other wise the water will take the easy route of the shorter hose. just my .02

[GAWnCA]

just a note on the header plumbing! i can see where,,to make it simple looking straight at the motor see the right header pipe has alot more blue on it! thats because its starveing for water! reason is the hoses from the T need to be the exact same length,,other wise the water will take the easy route of the shorter hose. just my .02
Hi OldBuck,
Well, I was told that at some point the small tubes got clogged up and did starve that side. I wish there were a solution to making them larger. So your 2 cents are valid. They did get too hot. I'm working on making sure this part of the problem is solved as well.
Greg

[Cas]

rp14,
did you see the responses on the Laid Back Board?
As you and Gaw can see, there's a lot of people in these parts that are more than willing to give a helping hand. I'm in Sonoma and the offer for some help comes from me also although Fleetimus is the one with a real good set-up.

[oldbuck40]

Hi OldBuck,
Well, I was told that at some point the small tubes got clogged up and did starve that side. I wish there were a solution to making them larger. So your 2 cents are valid. They did get too hot. I'm working on making sure this part of the problem is solved as well.
Greg
It will all come together! Sweet looking ride too! i have to laugh at the plumbing picture cause it reminded me of my boat when i got it! took me a while to trace it all down and get it right and when i got through i had about 6' of extra hose.lol:D

[GAWnCA]

rp14,
did you see the responses on the Laid Back Board?
As you and Gaw can see, there's a lot of people in these parts that are more than willing to give a helping hand. I'm in Sonoma and the offer for some help comes from me also although Fleetimus is the one with a real good set-up.
I just joined the forum. Now I have to find my way around. Thanks!

[GAWnCA]

It will all come together! Sweet looking ride too! i have to laugh at the plumbing picture cause it reminded me of my boat when i got it! took me a while to trace it all down and get it right and when i got through i had about 6' of extra hose.lol:D
I don't know that I'll have extra hose but I do know that when the oil was changed they didn't clean up the mess and the gunk that I've been getting my hands in is like gear grease. May hook the hose up to the hot water heater and just blast it out that way. I've got to get some pipe fittings "L's" for sure. And I may find the thermostat parts and put that back together. Sounds like the best way to control the engine temp.

[Cas]

I just joined the forum. Now I have to find my way around. Thanks!
I noticed, it's not as busy as it is here but most of the people on it are fairly local to you. You can also keep an eye out for lots of different get togethers that you might want to join in on.

[Cas]

I don't know that I'll have extra hose but I do know that when the oil was changed they didn't clean up the mess and the gunk that I've been getting my hands in is like gear grease. May hook the hose up to the hot water heater and just blast it out that way. I've got to get some pipe fittings "L's" for sure. And I may find the thermostat parts and put that back together. Sounds like the best way to control the engine temp.
The easiest way I've found to clean the bilge is to mix up about 3 gals of hot water and laundry detergent. Pour it into the bilge and take the boat for a little tow, the sloshing around cleans it out pretty good. When you get back, pull the drain plug and drain the gunk into a bucket. Repeat as necessary to get it clean.
Most auto parts stores also carry products to clean up grease that can be mixed with water.

[GAWnCA]

The easiest way I've found to clean the bilge is to mix up about 3 gals of hot water and laundry detergent. Pour it into the bilge and take the boat for a little tow, the sloshing around cleans it out pretty good. When you get back, pull the drain plug and drain the gunk into a bucket. Repeat as necessary to get it clean.
Most auto parts stores also carry products to clean up grease that can be mixed with water.
I guess I could mix up some Tide and Dawn together and see what it does. Should work. Thanks.
Up-Date - Boy!!! Tide sure foams more than I remember it doing. Maybe it's the fabric softener they add now.

[GAWnCA]

Well, I tried the re-plumb using the 4 port thermostat cover and using the Rex Marine diagram.
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/page160.jpg
That didn't work. Took out the valve to the headers and used only the Bassett "T" valve with the pressure ball and spring and flooded the headers while using water hose connection for cooling. I think some water slipped past and ended up in the oil. DAMN! :devil: Well, I needed to change the oil any way, since I don't know what was put in there to begin with. Guess I'll use some 20w-50 synthetic oil, unless someone has a better idea.
Anyway, back to the story. Got everything hooked up and regulated, installed a 160* thermostat, turned on the water, got the exhaust water just sputtering along, fired it up and within a few minutes the temp spiked to about 200*. So I put everything back the way it was, started up again and now it's running cool around 135* to 140* Sure don't like the fact that water got to the oil so easily. May need new head gaskets. Who knows at this point. Removed the thermostat too. :confused:

[GAWnCA]

The engine is a 460 Ford. Sounds great and does start right up. Starts better now that the plug wires are like they are suppose to be....
Well, everyone has seen the messy plumbing job that I was dealing with and now I've got a good grip on how it should be done.
Here's the BEFORE photo:
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/EngineFrontPlumbing001.jpg
Here are some AFTER shots;
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/plumbing_after-001.jpg
I need to remount that resistor. I've got to order a 2 port thermostat cover as well.
http://home.comcast.net/~gregaw/plumbing_after-003.jpg
I still hate the looks of that green valve but it's what I've got for now. You can see the ball check valve hidden down next to the front engine mounting plate.
Damn wiring is bugging me too!
I hope to get it wet tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it goes!
Thanks to all for your input.

[Danhercules]

Looks a lot better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will be perfect with the new t-stat housing.
With that ball valve (equal to a Basset "T") working, you dont need the gate valve( green valve).
I never had a valve on my dump line or the line to the headers and she worked great. You only need the green valve if you wanna shut the water off complety to the headers.
Remember, there should be no water thought the headers on idle. Only when you up the water pressure aka, give it gas.
If you hook it up to a hose, you just bairly crack the hose bib, like 1/2 turn and run your motor on idle. No water through the headers.
If your gonna run it at higher RMP to time it or something, then you need more water and then it will come out of the headers.
Always disconnect your pump when running it out of the water. IMO.
Lookin good!!!
.

[GAWnCA]

Looks a lot better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will be perfect with the new t-stat housing.
With that ball valve (equal to a Basset "T") working, you dont need the gate valve( green valve).
I never had a valve on my dump line or the line to the headers and she worked great. You only need the green valve if you wanna shut the water off complety to the headers.
Remember, there should be no water thought the headers on idle. Only when you up the water pressure aka, give it gas.
If you hook it up to a hose, you just bairly crack the hose bib, like 1/2 turn and run your motor on idle. No water through the headers.
If your gonna run it at higher RMP to time it or something, then you need more water and then it will come out of the headers.
Always disconnect your pump when running it out of the water. IMO.
Lookin good!!!.
Thanks Dan, I think it looks better too. I just left the valve in there until I feel better about controlling the water when I have it on the garden hose. I think I already ran water into the oil pan when I removed the valve and turned on teh water before starting.
Next question.... What weight motor oil should I use? I have no idea what's in there now and it looks like I've got a 10 qt. pan.
Thanks, again.

[rp14]

How about some photos? Where in Sacramento are you? Does the engine run now?
I am off Florin and Hwy 99. The engine seems froze after I tried to turn with a wrench. So I pulled the heads off getting it ready to pull the engine so I can rebuild it. I am also going to rebuild the jet drive as well.
Email me offline so we can touch base, I will need some advice to how to build the engine to add a little more HP, not too wild unless I change the drive.
Thanks,
Ron

[rp14]

rp14,
did you see the responses on the Laid Back Board?
As you and Gaw can see, there's a lot of people in these parts that are more than willing to give a helping hand. I'm in Sonoma and the offer for some help comes from me also although Fleetimus is the one with a real good set-up.
Yes I did, just need to get some time and money to get started on my boat. Looks like a good winter project to get it on the lakes in the Spring. Just need ideas and advice to build the engine and jet drive.
Thanks,
Ron

[rp14]

Here is a photo of the beast. Ugly right now but will look a lot better when I spend some time on it.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/RPetersen14/IMG_0854.jpg
Ron
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/RPetersen14/IMG_0854.jpg

[GAWnCA]

Here is a photo of the beast. Ugly right now but will look a lot better when I spend some time on it.
Ron
Hi Ron, Moose is in our area too. He's somewhere just around the corner from me. I'm off French road. That can be a nice boat when you get it done. Where did you pick it up?
Greg

[GAWnCA]

Well, 2 new issues reared their ugly head last night. One, I installed some new plug wire looms and now I've got wires with a lot of slack in them and others that are almost as tight as a banjo string. I have ordered new wires from Summit and I hope I can get this issues resolved, taking my time to lay out the wires by their length and fit. Second issue is the feeding of fuel. This Miller has saddlebag tanks and a single electric fuel pump. The right tank is completely dry and the left tank has about 5 gallons of gas in it, but I fired up the motor last night just to get the oil back up in the motor and it was running along and then just died, like it was out of gas. I'm think that the right tank ran dry and the pump just started sucking air. My idea is to add in another fuel gage and sending unit so I'll know what's in each tank and maybe adding in a switch over system so that I know when a tank may be getting empty. :confused:
Anyone have any better ideas? I've thought about adding a crossover line in the bottom of the tanks like I had on my trucks (semi's) so that the fuel self levels.
Thanks,
Greg

[GAWnCA]

Ok folks, I'm on a quest to find a good picture of the old style (1970's) Miller Custom Boats name plates that use to be put on the top of the hulls and on their trailer fenders. If I can get a good enough photo I can clean that up and then put it on my CNC machine and cut new ones. Also, need to know what bolt pattern and size bolts are used on the wheels, along with bushings. This thing sounds like farm equipment when towed. Thanks, Greg

[roostwear]

"....turned on the water, got the exhaust water just sputtering along, fired it up ..."
I highlighted parts of the quote in hopes that the sequence you posted is wrong. Get your plumbing ready, but start the engine FIRST.....THEN turn on the water. Water first is how you get water in the oil.
All the trailers I've had are a 5 on 4 1/2 bolt pattern with 1/2-20 studs.

[GAWnCA]

I highlighted parts of the quote in hopes that the sequence you posted is wrong. Get your plumbing ready, but start the engine FIRST.....THEN turn on the water. Water first is how you get water in the oil.
All the trailers I've had are a 5 on 4 1/2 bolt pattern with 1/2-20 studs.
Thanks Roost... I was also told NOT to turn on the water full blast. This will cause the headers to flood, also putting water in on top of pistons that the valves aren't closed on. I need to replace the lug nuts so I'll give those a shot. Sounds like a standard Ford nut. Thanks again, Greg