boat won't turn off

[wright27]

I have bbc and rewired the boat using the diagram off cbbb. The boat starts but will not turn off when I turn off the key. I have obviously done something wrong. Any help would be great.

[roostwear]

Sounds like your alternator is supplying power (directly) to the ignition circuit. Check to see that the ignition circuit ONLY goes thru the switch (or relay from the switch).

[painterdan32]

I have bbc and rewired the boat using the diagram off cbbb. The boat starts but will not turn off when I turn off the key. I have obviously done something wrong. Any help would be great.
I had the same problem with mine. Reverse your field and hot on your alternator. This worked for me. No, I didn't have a one wire system then. I had the two wire plug on the side of the alternator. Good luck!

[Taylorman]

If you have an MSD ignition and your alternator exciter wire is on the same terminal on the key switch as the power wire to the MSD, thats your problem. I had the same problem. Put the alternator wire on another terminal on your key switch. My key has 2 switched power terminals so i could seperate the two wires.

[MikeF]

I have bbc and rewired the boat using the diagram off cbbb. The boat starts but will not turn off when I turn off the key. I have obviously done something wrong. Any help would be great.
Sounds like you do not have the "diode" inline w/ the wire to #1 terminal on the alternator. I had to make that same mod on mine cause it would not shut off too.:mix: It is a low voltage diode and I bought it at Radio Shack, but I do remember exactly which model # it is. :rolleyes:
Chris might chime in w/ the #. :cool:

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Is it still running?

[sdba069]

Two things......... 1.. Install a diode trio in line to keep alternator from feeding voltage back into ignition................ 2.. Have alternator converted to 1 wire setup. I highly recommend the 1 wire deal.

[wright27]

Is it still running?
no smart ass I pulled the coil wire, but thanks for asking.

[wright27]

Two things......... 1.. Install a diode trio in line to keep alternator from feeding voltage back into ignition................ 2.. Have alternator converted to 1 wire setup. I highly recommend the 1 wire deal.
I pulled this motor out of one of my other boats. The alternator has the plug on the side but the other boat only had wires from the nut on the back of the alternator. One went straight to the battery and the other to the ignition. nothing pluged in to the side. The wiring in this boat has the piece and the cbbb diagram shows it so i pluged it in. I am not good with wires as I am sure you all can tell. Can someone break this down in the simplest terms possible.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Use the charge wire only and get a one wire alt.
The big red one.

[Moneypitt]

All alternators are not the same. There are several types, some with internal regulators, some external regulators. Each "brand", be it automotive or marine, are designed to be wired a certain way. You can not "mix and match" different designs with what ever wiring happens to be in the application you are now installing a "different" design alternator into. 9 times out of 10 you will "smoke" the alternator, or the wiring, or both! The "diodes" being recomended are electrical check valves, meaning they only allow voltage to travel one way. Most alternators have a "diode trio", meaning there are a series of check valves to route the voltage. An Alternator must be "excited", which is 12 volts coming into the alternator, usually from the ignition switch, then the current produced is routed to charge the battery and power the electrical accessories, in one direction only, OUT. What you are seeing is the battery voltage is feeding in, past the "out" diode, so your ignition is being fed from the alternator, instead of the other way around. This usually results in a dead battery after sitting for a few hours, and can also prevent the engine from shutting off. You can fight this problem forever, since you have admited that this isn't an area you are real sharp in, OR, you can replace the alternator with one like you took off, or one designed for your type wiring harness, OR, you can take your boat to someone that knows how to convert the system to a "one wire", which is nothing more than a GM integral unit with the exciter side jumped in from the battery side, through a diode trio. BEWARE that enclosed engines in marine applications can and do blow up because of a spark from a non marine alternator in a bildge filled with fuel vapors. AND alternators that are not regulated correctly can destroy a new battery in a couple of hours of running. Please weigh you options carefully and I would recomend finding someone in your area that can help you get this done "by the book", it will pay off in the long run..........Ray

[Wicked Performance Boats]

All alternators are not the same. There are several types, some with internal regulators, some external regulators. Each "brand", be it automotive or marine, are designed to be wired a certain way. You can not "mix and match" different designs with what ever wiring happens to be in the application you are now installing a "different" design alternator into. 9 times out of 10 you will "smoke" the alternator, or the wiring, or both! The "diodes" being recomended are electrical check valves, meaning they only allow voltage to travel one way. Most alternators have a "diode trio", meaning there are a series of check valves to route the voltage. An Alternator must be "excited", which is 12 volts coming into the alternator, usually from the ignition switch, then the current produced is routed to charge the battery and power the electrical accessories, in one direction only, OUT. What you are seeing is the battery voltage is feeding in, past the "out" diode, so your ignition is being fed from the alternator, instead of the other way around. This usually results in a dead battery after sitting for a few hours, and can also prevent the engine from shutting off. You can fight this problem forever, since you have admited that this isn't an area you are real sharp in, OR, you can replace the alternator with one like you took off, or one designed for your type wiring harness, OR, you can take your boat to someone that knows how to convert the system to a "one wire", which is nothing more than a GM integral unit with the exciter side jumped in from the battery side, through a diode trio. BEWARE that enclosed engines in marine applications can and do blow up because of a spark from a non marine alternator in a bildge filled with fuel vapors. AND alternators that are not regulated correctly can destroy a new battery in a couple of hours of running. Please weigh you options carefully and I would recomend finding someone in your area that can help you get this done "by the book", it will pay off in the long run..........RayDamm Ray, Great job, I can't even think at 4 am. Budlight

[IMPATIENT 1]

[QUOTE=wright27] The boat starts but will not turn off
man who does header, has hotrod :)

[Taylorman]

Two things......... 1.. Install a diode trio in line to keep alternator from feeding voltage back into ignition................ 2.. Have alternator converted to 1 wire setup. I highly recommend the 1 wire deal.
I put diodes in my wiring when i had this problem and it did not cure the problem. I'd suggest getting a one wire alternator. I just bought one from Summit for $80.

[wright27]

All alternators are not the same. There are several types, some with internal regulators, some external regulators. Each "brand", be it automotive or marine, are designed to be wired a certain way. You can not "mix and match" different designs with what ever wiring happens to be in the application you are now installing a "different" design alternator into. 9 times out of 10 you will "smoke" the alternator, or the wiring, or both! The "diodes" being recomended are electrical check valves, meaning they only allow voltage to travel one way. Most alternators have a "diode trio", meaning there are a series of check valves to route the voltage. An Alternator must be "excited", which is 12 volts coming into the alternator, usually from the ignition switch, then the current produced is routed to charge the battery and power the electrical accessories, in one direction only, OUT. What you are seeing is the battery voltage is feeding in, past the "out" diode, so your ignition is being fed from the alternator, instead of the other way around. This usually results in a dead battery after sitting for a few hours, and can also prevent the engine from shutting off. You can fight this problem forever, since you have admited that this isn't an area you are real sharp in, OR, you can replace the alternator with one like you took off, or one designed for your type wiring harness, OR, you can take your boat to someone that knows how to convert the system to a "one wire", which is nothing more than a GM integral unit with the exciter side jumped in from the battery side, through a diode trio. BEWARE that enclosed engines in marine applications can and do blow up because of a spark from a non marine alternator in a bildge filled with fuel vapors. AND alternators that are not regulated correctly can destroy a new battery in a couple of hours of running. Please weigh you options carefully and I would recomend finding someone in your area that can help you get this done "by the book", it will pay off in the long run..........Ray
Thanks Ray. I will get a one wire. I changed a few wires and now it will shut off but the starter stays running. I am not sure if the starter is stuck in the flywheel or if it some wiring thing.

[Squirtcha?]

Is it still running?
Thanks for the laugh this morning Pat. That was friggin funny as hell.

[Big Kahunaa]

no smart ass I pulled the coil wire, but thanks for asking.
:220v:

[wright27]

:220v:
I grabed as many gasoline soaked rags as I could so I didn't get shocked.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

no smart ass I pulled the coil wire, but thanks for asking.
LMFAO:D you guys are silly;)

[sdba069]

Hey Taylorman........... The only reasons that the diodes wouldn't work would be because (1).. it was faulty or (2).. you installed them in the wrong direction. I'm assumming you installed the diode trio in the exciter wire, and not the charging lead. The GM alternators are easy to rig for one wire, but the Motorola's and Prestolite's are a little tougher. We've had to install a small resistor in the internal exciter wire to keep from backfeeding voltage to the ignition. This setup will work but will allow a very small voltage draw in the alternator. I've got 2 or 3 boats here with that setup and have not had a problem with the battery being drawn down between use.

[FLEA DIDDY]

I can't be of any help, but I did have the same problem on a boat that had a whacka on it, I hooked the wires up and it would'nt shut off and in my haste to figure it out I reached under the console to unhook the wires and got the shock of my life from the magneto, very interesting feeling, lol :220v: :220v:

[460 jus getn it]

I can't be of any help, but I did have the same problem on a boat that had a whacka on it, I hooked the wires up and it would'nt shut off and in my haste to figure it out I reached under the console to unhook the wires and got the shock of my life from the magneto, very interesting feeling, lol :220v: :220v:
lmfao...............yes it is...i have had two run-ins with a 6al box..............not fun

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

lmfao...............yes it is...i have had two run-ins with a 6al box..............not fun
Hey jackass, I had the issue because YOU started it when you werent supposed to!!!!!
396

[460 jus getn it]

Hey jackass, I had the issue because YOU started it when you werent supposed to!!!!!
396
aww hahahahahahahahahahaha..........................re member it made you convulse and ran down the street like a chicken with its heads cutt off.........AWWWWWW HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[sdba069]

Hey Flea Diddy.......... Did you figure out that with a magneto ignition, the alternator and mag kill are two completely seperate circuits, one operated on the positive and the other on ground and can't react with each other? Let me rephrase that, shouldn't be able to react with each other.

[FLEA DIDDY]

Hey Flea Diddy.......... Did you figure out that with a magneto ignition, the alternator and mag kill are two completely seperate circuits, one operated on the positive and the other on ground and can't react with each other? Let me rephrase that, shouldn't be able to react with each other.This was coming off a whacker no alt, lol as you know I'm sure. All I know is it was the hot wire that should have went to the emergency kill switch, I latched on to it and zap!!!! That mofo let me know who was in charge, lol :220v: :220v:

[FLEA DIDDY]

Even better was I got it all sorted out, I thought, and me and a buddy took it out wakeboarding and it messed up while I was in the water. I told my bud to put it in nuetral and reach under the console and unplug it from the kill switch and it will cut the motor off. weeeelllll I didn't tell him not to touch the connector and it lit his a$$ up oh man I almost drowned laughing so hard, he yelled like a little girl when he got zapped, lmao :220v:

[Taylorman]

My MSD zapped me the other day. It will sure get your attention just as quick as touching a Bassett header.

[wright27]

What is the purpose of a resistor?

[sdba069]

The voltage trying to go back through the resistor was insufficient to maintain ignition.

[MikeF]

The diode trio is already inside the alternator or part of the regulator. There is no messing w/ that unless your disassembling the alternator.
The diode inline w/ the alt voltage feed wire (if installed correctly.......arrow pointing toward the alt, when installing diode) will keep all voltage from backfeeding to the coil....allowing the engine to to stop properly.

[wright27]

The diode trio is already inside the alternator or part of the regulator. There is no messing w/ that unless your disassembling the alternator.
The diode inline w/ the alt voltage feed wire (if installed correctly.......arrow pointing toward the alt, when installing diode) will keep all voltage from backfeeding to the coil....allowing the engine to to stop properly.
Well this will Probably lable me as an idiot, but how else can I learn. What's a diode. Is it like a resistor?
This altenator was on this motor in another boat I had. It only had two wires coming off the back. One went straight to the battery and the other coming off of the same and only post with a nut on the back went to the front somewhere. In the other boat there was no clip that pluged into the side of the alternator. The boat had no terminal block just wires running wraped in electrical tape. Mabey this info will help.

[Moneypitt]

DO NOT COLLECT $200......Go directly to post #11.............Ray

[wright27]

DO NOT COLLECT $200......Go directly to post #11.............Ray
oh yea, sorry. sometimes i suffer from a rare condition called duh.

[meaniam]

i know you guy are chasing the major problems. but ill bring up a little one that i havent seen address. and only cuase i had the same shit happen to me. have you check to make sure the ignition switch is still good i went threw 4 of the autozone ones and they are crap i only had one work for the first 20 mins of hopping on it and it to failed to shut off. so i had it hotwired. on my test run. GOD WAS WITH ME BECUASE MY SENSE WAS NOT. i had the hose clamp for the gas line at the carp come off spraying gas every where and standing in gas i pulled the coil wire. god i only can imagine the luck i had there. i should have went to vegas

[sdba069]

Good point.... Don't overlook the basics.

[MikeF]

but how else can I learn. What's a diode. Is it like a resistor?
Diode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode)
The arrow on the diode points in the direction that the electrons can/will flow.
As a boat owner I would advise buying some type of automotive electrical book to help you through some of the problems you will likely face. If you can do it yourself it will cost you less in the future. There is alot of shady stuff going on at some shops. In the past, I've been a victim of that.
And yes, There are no dumb questions...only dumb people. :crossx: .......KIDDING.....kinda. ;)

[garret]

I have bbc and rewired the boat using the diagram off cbbb. The boat starts but will not turn off when I turn off the key. I have obviously done something wrong. Any help would be great.
Just leave it that way! Explain to your wife that the boat wont shut off at the river so you cant go home untile you run out of gas!

[wright27]

Thank you to all. I put a resistor in between the alternator and coil and now all is perfect. A hell of a learning experience. Anyone want me to work on there boat yet. I think with all I learn from building this one (my first) I will be a champ. :cool: :D

[Mr. Crusader 83]

Sounds like you do not have the "diode" inline w/ the wire to #1 terminal on the alternator. I had to make that same mod on mine cause it would not shut off too.:mix: It is a low voltage diode and I bought it at Radio Shack, but I do remember exactly which model # it is. :rolleyes:
Chris might chime in w/ the #. :cool:
I HAD TO DO THE SAME THING.... WORKS GREAT

[NJBA Donut Club]

Is your refrigerator running too, you better catch it.

[Moneypitt]

Simple, simple, simple........What resistor, where? I've wired at least 100 charging systems and NEVER added a resistor to any of them, anywhere, EVER.......a simple one wire alternator is nothing more than a GM intergral alternator with a jumper wire to the ingniton side of the dual wire clip in. If the alternator is "all" there, you're done. If you need to add a resistor anywhere in the circuit, please contact general motors and let them know where the "resistor" is needed, cause they need to recall about a bazillion vehicles right away........MP

[boater012]

hey wright my dad lives in palmdale and im really good with electrical i run my own shop i am going to visit my father this coming weekend when the rain lets up i can come by and diagnose/ repair this for at no charge if youd like i can bring a diode and some other PROPS to teach you the basics it only takes a few if youre a smart guy youll pick it up quickly. again i wont charge you anything for the repair or the lesson ill be off of avenue r-8 over in the hood just pm me with your address and phone number and ill swing by if youll be around! let me know asap because i will take my mobile shop truck instaed of my hotrod when i go if you want the assistance!

[inwo]

Simple, simple, simple........What resistor, where? I've wired at least 100 charging systems and NEVER added a resistor to any of them, anywhere, EVER.......a simple one wire alternator is nothing more than a GM intergral alternator with a jumper wire to the ingniton side of the dual wire clip in. If the alternator is "all" there, you're done. If you need to add a resistor anywhere in the circuit, please contact general motors and let them know where the "resistor" is needed, cause they need to recall about a bazillion vehicles right away........MP
Bingo!
As an ee I was wondering where this was going. Hoping for a diagram of that resistor circuit to see what GM forgot.
I do know a type alternator with a positive "common field" connection that could feed back into ignition circuit, but only if miswired.

[sdba069]

Hey Moneypitt........ I see that resistor deal occassionally and it does work. Simply install a resistor in the exciter wire and that won't allow enough voltage back from the alternator to power the ignition after the switch is turned off, but will allow enough to excite the alternator. Not our usual method but it does work.

[wright27]

Here is the wiring diagram I followed. It calls for a ballast resistor between the ignition wireon the #4post on the terminol block to the wire that runs from the r starter and the positive wire to the coil. I put that in and everything works fine so far. This diagram is what I followed to the exact.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11573&stc=1

[sdba069]

That wasn't what I was referring to but see why it would do the job. The applications I referred to were electronic ignitions which didn't require the use of a resistor in the primary ignition wire. The resistor was actually installed in the wire running from the #1 post on the alternator. If you notice in the wire running from the #4 terminal to the alternator, you'll see the presence of a diode, which is what I was referring to in an earlier post. That is the normal fix.

[wright27]

hey wright my dad lives in palmdale and im really good with electrical i run my own shop i am going to visit my father this coming weekend when the rain lets up i can come by and diagnose/ repair this for at no charge if youd like i can bring a diode and some other PROPS to teach you the basics it only takes a few if youre a smart guy youll pick it up quickly. again i wont charge you anything for the repair or the lesson ill be off of avenue r-8 over in the hood just pm me with your address and phone number and ill swing by if youll be around! let me know asap because i will take my mobile shop truck instaed of my hotrod when i go if you want the assistance!
sent you a pm

[Moneypitt]

All that terminal does is feed full battery voltage to the coil while cranking, only. If you run an ignition thru a ballast resistor to reduce the voltage to the coil, then it will be further reduced while using the battery for cranking. The lead you refer to mearly bypasses the ballast while cranking......MP

[boater012]

replied to your p.m.

[Mr. Crusader 83]

All that terminal does is feed full battery voltage to the coil while cranking, only. If you run an ignition thru a ballast resistor to reduce the voltage to the coil, then it will be further reduced while using the battery for cranking. The lead you refer to mearly bypasses the ballast while cranking......MP
trust me i had to do it to mine. on the return wire on the alt install the diode, you want the arrow pointing away from the alt. it will work right from then on.

[inwo]

All that terminal does is feed full battery voltage to the coil while cranking, only. If you run an ignition thru a ballast resistor to reduce the voltage to the coil, then it will be further reduced while using the battery for cranking. The lead you refer to mearly bypasses the ballast while cranking......MP
Exactly, correct again. :)

[Moneypitt]

trust me i had to do it to mine. on the return wire on the alt install the diode, you want the arrow pointing away from the alt. it will work right from then on.
Are we talking about the "R" terminal on the starter solinoid???? And if we are, what could that possibly have to do with a charging system?.......MP

[inwo]

Most likely he is talking about term 1 in the diagram. This is the term that supplys excitation to the field until the alt is spun up and the diode trio takes over. After the alternator is producing current, this term (1) is connected internaly to diode trio which will continue to power ignition unless diode blocked as shown.
Although a resistor could do the job if sized correctly, a diode is more suitable as reverse flow is near zero. (diode trio to ign circuit)
In automotive use I believe there is a small indicator lamp between term 1 and ignition circuit. This is where the idea of using resistance may come.
Whatever works! :) It's hard to argue with success.

[NJBA Donut Club]

Is that damn boat still running, what size fuel tank do you have???

[wright27]

Is that damn boat still running, what size fuel tank do you have???
I just ran a hose to a 50 gallon drum. Should be running for at least another day or so.

[boater012]

Ill go hijack a chevron fuel truck we can hide in your back yard under some tumble weeds and you can let her run at least a month or so! got any silver paint to cover up the chevron shields on the side?????? :idea: :argue: :skull:

[boater012]

We can do that while its still running right???? wait let me get my special snap-on wrenches for moving parts! :rolleyes:

[wright27]

We can do that while its still running right???? wait let me get my special snap-on wrenches for moving parts! :rolleyes:
You can do it. but got to be fast real fast. Sounds like a job for superman.

[boater012]

Allright if I show up at your house in a tanker truck wearing a superman costume, will you wear a green lantern suit while I remove the jet coupler? We better hook up the fuel line first! :p :rollside: :crossx:

[painterdan32]

You guys are too much. call me when you finally get the timing right. thats why you started it... right? LOL
daniel.