liberals are communists and dems are libs

[centerhill condor]

so, therefore dems are commies.
As an example, recently the US legislature passed an expansion of the Federal Child healthcare program to include a family of 4 making $84,000 and "children" up to age 25.
This would be paid for with a tax levied on health insurance premiums you and I pay! So, the dems would bankrupt the free market health insurance system in order to "force" you to get on the gov't program.
Now, you may say to yourself, "this isn't communism..they're just trying to help average Americans"...well let's look at medicaire/medicaid.
Under these programs doctors haven't had a price increase since '01. Many doctors aren't accepting new gov't patients. Therefore denying benefits to the very people they're trying to "help".
When the gov't determines who gets what and sets the price; that is communism. Ask any immigrants. 165 russians die for every 100 born. If you are sick in Russia you die...unless you can buy your own.
This is what the dems would implement here 'cause this is the only country where communism hasn't failed...not for a lack of tryin'.
This week the Fed and other central banks have added some $Billions of your cheap money to the debt market to prevent investors from realizing the risks of their poor investment choices under the guise of keeping people from losing houses they couldn't afford in the first place.
Then there's restrictions on your rights as written in the Constitution...pick your favorite. Establishing rights that don't exist to cause and take political advantage of class, race, gender, insert "diversity" here. You want to unite...stand up for equal protection under the law. A constitutional right in black and white.
Since the '70s real taxes have increased by roughly 70% on families to pay for programs to subsidize destruction of the family...and we complain about increased bankruptcy.
Show me where any of the "social" programs have helped to unite, improve, or strengthen our country.
If we could return to a constitutional form of gov't...we'd put a bunch of lobbyists, lawyers, and bankers into the work force. No wonder they resist with such fervor!
CC

[ULTRA26 # 1]

so, therefore dems are commies.
As an example, recently the US legislature passed an expansion of the Federal Child healthcare program to include a family of 4 making $84,000 and "children" up to age 25.
This would be paid for with a tax levied on health insurance premiums you and I pay! So, the dems would bankrupt the free market health insurance system in order to "force" you to get on the gov't program.
Now, you may say to yourself, "this isn't communism..they're just trying to help average Americans"...well let's look at medicaire/medicaid.
Under these programs doctors haven't had a price increase since '01. Many doctors aren't accepting new gov't patients. Therefore denying benefits to the very people they're trying to "help".
When the gov't determines who gets what and sets the price; that is communism. Ask any immigrants. 165 russians die for every 100 born. If you are sick in Russia you die...unless you can buy your own.
This is what the dems would implement here 'cause this is the only country where communism hasn't failed...not for a lack of tryin'.
This week the Fed and other central banks have added some $Billions of your cheap money to the debt market to prevent investors from realizing the risks of their poor investment choices under the guise of keeping people from losing houses they couldn't afford in the first place.
Then there's restrictions on your rights as written in the Constitution...pick your favorite. Establishing rights that don't exist to cause and take political advantage of class, race, gender, insert "diversity" here. You want to unite...stand up for equal protection under the law. A constitutional right in black and white.
Since the '70s real taxes have increased by roughly 70% on families to pay for programs to subsidize destruction of the family...and we complain about increased bankruptcy.
Show me where any of the "social" programs have helped to unite, improve, or strengthen our country.
If we could return to a constitutional form of gov't...we'd put a bunch of lobbyists, lawyers, and bankers into the work force. No wonder they resist with such fervor!
CC
Proof positive that some Republicans are morons.
Example 1 is unverifiable. Post support
Now, you may say to yourself, "this isn't communism..they're just trying to help average Americans"...well let's look at medicaire/medicaid.
Under these programs doctors haven't had a price increase since '01. Many doctors aren't accepting new gov't patients. Therefore denying benefits to the very people they're trying to "help".
Hospitals, and the doctors who operate these facilities are f.n thieves. Example from experience same doctor myself private insurance my ex Medicare. A full blood panel price. Private $180.00 Medicare $760.00.
As a result of the Republican Congress (and the drug lobby) Drug prices under Medicare are not negotiable. Example: Lipitor. Annual Medicare cost over $1,400.00. Annual cost Vet Administration $160. Medicare pays nearly 1000% more. The Democratic congress has been discussing a bill to eliminate fixed drug prices for Medicare and W has promised to Veto. I have a 60 year old friend, male non-smoker. His monthly non-group health insurance premium, $1,400.00.
The system is broken.
This week the Fed and other central banks have added some $Billions of your cheap money to the debt market to prevent investors from realizing the risks of their poor investment choices under the guise of keeping people from losing houses they couldn't afford in the first place.
This was a great move, NOT!. Devalue the dollar a bit more, and a bit more inflation. It's OK to add a few more billion to the almost 9 trillion dollar debt. Again, NOT! Just more BS to make the economy look good. IMO, it's going to get worse before Bush leave office.
Then there's restrictions on your rights as written in the Constitution...pick your favorite. Establishing rights that don't exist to cause and take political advantage of class, race, gender, insert "diversity" here. You want to unite...stand up for equal protection under the law. A constitutional right in black and white.
I agree completly.
Show me where any of the "social" programs have helped to unite, improve, or strengthen our country.
Care for this Country's elderly
If we could return to a constitutional form of gov't...we'd put a bunch of lobbyists, lawyers, and bankers into the work force. No wonder they resist with such fervor!
Opps we agree again. CC are you sure you anit one lefty liberal commies, which are the subject of this thread :)

[centerhill condor]

8/02/2007
Despite a veto threat from President Bush, the U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation expanding the State Children's Health Insurance program (SCHIP) for low-income families.
The House voted 225-204, mostly along party-lines, for a bill that would increase the SCHIP program by an estimated $50 billion over five years, financed mainly by a tax increase on cigarettes and cuts to Medicare payouts to private health insurers. This expansion is expected to provide coverage for as many as 6 million children currently without health care.
In a July 18 statement, Bush said the proposals in Congress were too broad. "It was a program initially designed to help poor families afford health care for their children." Bush said. "Members of Congress have decided, however, to expand the program to include, in some cases, up to families earning $80,000 a year, which would cause people to drop their private insurance in order to be involved with a government insurance plan."
The Senate is expected to pass on a $35 billion companion bill that also would be financed by higher taxes on tobacco products.
Example 1 is unverifiable. Post support
Hospitals, and the doctors who operate these facilities are f.n thieves. The system is broken.
Show me where any of the "social" programs have helped to unite, improve, or strengthen our country.
Care for this Country's elderly
Your response merely proves you must be spoon fed or you will starve. Typical liberal commie type mantra...like I would lie to you...;)
Next time you go see your doctor be sure and tell him what you think....
and if you have the time would you type your thoughts on what is and isn't "constitutional"?
If the system is broken throw it out.
CC

[centerhill condor]

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
That is the second principle of the manifesto..
At a San Francisco fundraiser in 2004- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., told wealthy supporters the government will need to take money away from them for the "common good."
Clinton headlined an appearance with other women Democratic senators in San Francisco, where donors gave as much as $10,000 to California Sen. Barbara Boxer's campaign.
"Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Clinton said, according to the Associated Press. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you.
"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
This statement from Hillary Clinton says it all, it comes directly from the Communist Manifesto. We will take from the rich for the "Common Good", ignoring the fact that by doing so would take jobs directly from the American people, causing the job unemployment rate to rise again.
[From the Communist Manifesto written in 1848]
In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality.
(By proletariat, the class of modern wage labourers who, having no means of production of their own, are reduced to selling their labour power in order to live. [Engels, 1888 English edition] )
The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: Formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.
(By bourgeoisie is meant the class of modern capitalists, owners of the means of social production and employers of wage labour).
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of producing and appropriating products that is based on class antagonisms, on the exploitation of the many by the few.
In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
Are you beginning to see how much of the Liberal Democratic message comes directly from the Communist Manifesto and where it is leading you?
More from the Communist Manifesto on "Common Property"
When, therefore, capital is converted into common property, into the property of all members of society, personal property is not thereby transformed into social property. It is only the social character of the property that is changed. It loses its class character.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I lifted this from another site...my best instinct tells me your pretty boat, truck, and vacation home would be subject to conversion into "common property"...where would you be without being hindered with all these programs designed to "help" you? better off!
CC

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Proof positive that some Republicans are morons.
Example 1 is unverifiable. Post support
And by now you'da thunk he'd be smarter than to tell you, Tex, and I to SOURCE something.
DOH!!!! That's gonna leave a mark.
Yet another step in cradle-to grave socialism, and I QUALIFY for this one! And he WANTS Hillary to get in charge to implement this destructive crap.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

8/02/2007
Despite a veto threat from President Bush, the U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation expanding the State Children's Health Insurance program (SCHIP) for low-income families.
The House voted 225-204, mostly along party-lines, for a bill that would increase the SCHIP program by an estimated $50 billion over five years, financed mainly by a tax increase on cigarettes and cuts to Medicare payouts to private health insurers. This expansion is expected to provide coverage for as many as 6 million children currently without health care.
In a July 18 statement, Bush said the proposals in Congress were too broad. "It was a program initially designed to help poor families afford health care for their children." Bush said. "Members of Congress have decided, however, to expand the program to include, in some cases, up to families earning $80,000 a year, which would cause people to drop their private insurance in order to be involved with a government insurance plan."
The Senate is expected to pass on a $35 billion companion bill that also would be financed by higher taxes on tobacco products.
Your response merely proves you must be spoon fed or you will starve. Typical liberal commie type mantra...like I would lie to you...;)
Next time you go see your doctor be sure and tell him what you think....
and if you have the time would you type your thoughts on what is and isn't "constitutional"?
If the system is broken throw it out.
CC
The above is straight from "NursesWorld.Com. CC get your facts straight before posting.
Your 1st post stated that this program was to be funded by a tax on private health insurance isurance premiums. Now you post that this is to be financed mainly by a tax increase on cigarettes and cuts to Medicare payouts to private health insurers and higher taxes on tobacco products. Big difference.
U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation expanding the State Children's Health Insurance program (SCHIP) for low-income families. THe keyword here being State. ???
If you try to spoon feed me garbage I will spit it out, just as I'm doing.
I suggest that you start doing the same.
The remody for a broken system is to fix it which doesn't mean putting a band-aid on it.
Start using your head CC

[Steve 1]

This says it all!
http://www.UploadYourImages.com/img/072769hillaryflag.gif (http://www.UploadYourImages.com)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

This says it all!
Steve,
CC already posted that comment.

[Steve 1]

So what??

[Blown 472]

Never mind the fact that gdumbya has gone to a commie country to get money for his war and handed the keys to this country to the commies, nice very nice, so all your stupid ass dems are commie shit just goes right out the window.

[Steve 1]

Never mind the fact that gdumbya has gone to a commie country to get money for his war and handed the keys to this country to the commies, nice very nice, so all your stupid ass dems are commie shit just goes right out the window.
What country and the Amount?

[Steve 1]

BWT Bent the dems have marched lock-step with the communists since the 20's.

[Blown 472]

What country and the Amount?
Gee that would be china stevo, and the amount is in the trillions, they are second only to japan.

[Blown 472]

BWT Bent the dems have marched lock-step with the communists since the 20's.
Prove it
And gdumbya isn't?????

[Steve 1]

Here Bent you like "Links"
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52803

[Blown 472]

Here Bent you like "Links"
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52803
Ok, cool stalin must be so happy, nut job.

[Steve 1]

Prove it
And gdumbya isn't?????
Dam Bent compare the planks of the communist party to the Rats..
That's why a leftist is so evil, much like an undercover communist espionage agent masquerading as a simpleton Liberal. Like YOU!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Dam Bent compare the planks of the communist party to the Rats..
That's why a leftist is so evil, much like an undercover communist espionage agent masquerading as a simpleton Liberal. Like YOU!
Stupid, just plain stuipd
Now the left is EVIL. Let's see. The left are commies and pussies, liars, cheats, thievs, treasonous, and now evil, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
and W is GOOD.
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

[Steve 1]

Give Ultra dumbazz for a $100 Alex !! I said LEFTIST.

[Blown 472]

Stupid, just plain stuipd
Now the left is EVIL. Let's see. The left are commies and pussies, liars, cheats, thievs, treasonous, and now evil, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
and W is GOOD.
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
Yeah he is, try to sell our country out to the wetbacks, gives china the keys to the country, he is a great leader, always looking out for his country men.

[centerhill condor]

The SCHIP Revelation
The Wall Street Journal
Congress has left town for August, thank heavens, but not before passing bills that set up some important debates for the autumn. One of the biggest ought to be over the plans to expand the State Children's Health Insurance Program (Schip), which is a dress rehearsal for the health-care fight in 2008.
Schip was supposed to help children from low-income families, but Democrats are now using the program to expand government control of health care and undermine private insurance. To see this plan in action, look no further than the 465-page Schip revelation that Democrats muscled through the House last week.
Schip was created as a program that needs to be reauthorized every decade; the House plan makes it a permanent entitlement. Schip was supposed to help the uninsured; the House plan is consciously designed to "crowd out" private coverage and replace it with federal welfare. The bill goes so far as to offer increasing "bonus payments" to states as they enroll more people in their Schip programs. To grease the way, the bill re-labels "children" as anyone under 25, and "low income" as up to 400% above the poverty level, or $82,600 for a family of four.
As if this all weren't blunt enough, the House's Schip bill also includes a new tax on private insurance policies. Assessed at $375 million in its first year and increasing thereafter, this so-called "fair-share" tax will fund a new government agency to study the "comparative effectiveness" of certain medical treatments and kinds of insurance. Unremarked is that health insurance is already more expensive than it needs to be because of mandates like this one.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
another loving spoonful for Ultra...this is a gov't program and the allmighty state is the gov't. back to the libs are commies "theme".
Blown, you're welcome to join the debate if you care to do more than moon the crowd from a passing mopar!
CC

[Tom Brown]

BWT Bent the dems have marched lock-step with the communists since the 20's.
Indeed. Don't forget, In WWII it was democrats running the concentration camps in Germany.
Since Democrats are communists and you've basically been at war against communism for the better part of the last century, don't you think it ought to be legal to shoot Democrats?

[Boatcop]

If anyone has any questions about the quality of Government run health care, just look at MLK - Harbor Hospital.
Even the LA County Board of Supervisors realize that the only way for it to re-open is to privatize it.
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/closing-martin-luther-king-hospital/17023/

['75 Miller]

:
Since Democrats are communists and you've basically been at war against communism for the better part of the last century, don't you think it ought to be legal to shoot Democrats?
:idea:

[Moneypitt]

Indeed. Don't forget, In WWII it was democrats running the concentration camps in Germany.
Since Democrats are communists and you've basically been at war against communism for the better part of the last century, don't you think it ought to be legal to shoot Democrats?
You mean it is illegal now?...damm, there goes the neighborhood
...............So many idiots, so few comets..........MP

[SmokinLowriderSS]

If anyone has any questions about the quality of Government run health care, just look at MLK - Harbor Hospital.
Even the LA County Board of Supervisors realize that the only way for it to re-open is to privatize it.
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/closing-martin-luther-king-hospital/17023/
Also Walter Reid Army Medical Center.
Water leaks
Rats
Bug pests
Holes in the walls
etc
etc
etc
Yea, we need to turn 1/6th of the entire US economy over to a govt. burocracy so it can do a better job of serving the people than private companies do. :rolleyes: :idea: :idea: :idea:

[Schiada76]

If anyone has any questions about the quality of Government run health care, just look at MLK - Harbor Hospital.
Even the LA County Board of Supervisors realize that the only way for it to re-open is to privatize it.
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/closing-martin-luther-king-hospital/17023/
A quick test for anyone that wants Govt. controlled health care.
Call the IRS with a simple question, pretend you're trying to contact your doctor.:D

[centerhill condor]

Communist Manifesto in America -- Marx would be pleased
Published in The Orlando Sentinel on March 18, 1999.
If old Karl Marx, the embittered inventor of communism, could return
from the grave, he would no doubt be surprised to find that most of the
10 planks of his Communist Manifesto, issued in 1848 in collaboration
with Frederick Engels, have been happily adopted or are at least
supported by Americans.
Let's look at the 10 planks:
1. "Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land
to public purposes." Well, we're working on this one. The federal
government owns huge amounts of land and is acquiring more. Private
property rights are being eroded deliberately in the name of protecting
the environment.
2. "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax." Need I say more?
Before Ronald Reagan's tax law changes we had exactly that and many
Americans support the idea of taxing the rich more than the less-rich.
3. "Abolition of all rights of inheritance." We haven't gone all the
way on that one, but heavy estate taxes are a step in that direction.
Estate taxes are purely punitive because they are taxes levied on
assets on which multiple taxes have already been paid many times.
4. "Confiscation of the property of emigrants and rebels." Well, our
forefathers confiscated the property of those who supported the British
during the Revolution, and, under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt
Organizations Act and other civil statutes, property is being
confiscated right and left in the name of the war on drugs.
5. "Centralization of credit in the hands of the state . . . ." Pretty
much done. See the Federal Reserve Act.
6. "Centralization of the means of communications and transport in the
hands of the state." Seen a private road or bridge lately? Who licenses
all radio and television? Only the First Amendment saves the print
press from federal licensing, but I suspect that hate-speech laws will
soon follow hate-crime laws, and that will erode that freedom.
7. "Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the
state . . . ." Well, the government runs many businesses and some folks
would like to see it run more.
8. "Equal obligation to work. Establishment of industrial armies,
especially for agriculture." We've escaped this one mainly, in my
opinion, because of the Second Amendment (the right to own firearms)
and mechanization.
9. "Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual
abolition of distinction between town and country." Pretty much done,
because big corporations dominate what's left of agriculture and mass
communications have more or less erased cultural differences.
10. "Free education of all children in public schools. Abolition of
child factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with
industrial production." Done.
Now, you must understand that what communism was driving toward was not
economic nirvana for the people (that was the advertising) but total
power in the hands of the state. Note, for example, the manifesto does
not advocate education for children per se but education in public
schools where, of course, they can be under the control of and
indoctrinated by the state.
The hatred for property and for farmers was based on the knowledge that
people who are economically independent of the state can assert their
political freedom from state control.
Communism is just another form of slavery in which the slave is
provided work, housing, food, education, medical care and retirement --
but at the price of freedom.
You can see Americans advocating the very same system today, and most
of them, because of their poor education in government schools, don't
have the foggiest notion that they are advocating Marxist ideas.
[Posted 03/17/1999 8:58 PM EST]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CC

[ULTRA26 # 1]

CC
I think you are on to something. America is going commie. That's it we're gon' commie...... sarcasm
CC Sounds like you're looking for a reason for the Right to declare war on Democrats.
It's not like things aren't focked up enough. With attitudes and hate, similar to those that plague the PRF, things in this Country have no chance of getting fixed. We'll just continue to let Washington fock us over and steal us blind.
IMO, we would at least have fighting chance of kicking some politician ass if we quit arguing and united.

[Old Texan]

CC
I think you are on to something. America is going commie. That's it we're gon' commie...... sarcasm
CC Sounds like you're looking for a reason for the Right to declare war on Democrats.
It's not like things aren't focked up enough. With attitudes and hate, similar to those that plague the PRF, things in this Country have no chance of getting fixed. We'll just continue to let Washington fock us over and steal us blind.
IMO, we would at least have fighting chance of kicking some politician ass if we quit arguing and united.
Since the 2 Dem frontrunners have many solid inclinations of Socialistic beliefs. Examples: Hillary has time and again talked of taking money from coporations and high end tax payers who earned this money legally, so she could redistribute that money for the "good of all". Obama has addressed the upcoming pension diasater with labor unions and set the stage for government bailout. How do you see these 2 in regard to running the country?
Hypothetically at least, if indeed they take the country in the socialist direction of their "alledged" beliefs do you think that a good thing?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Since the 2 Dem frontrunners have many solid inclinations of Socialistic beliefs. Examples: Hillary has time and again talked of taking money from coporations and high end tax payers who earned this money legally, so she could redistribute that money for the "good of all". Obama has addressed the upcoming pension diasater with labor unions and set the stage for government bailout. How do you see these 2 in regard to running the country?
Hypothetically at least, if indeed they take the country in the socialist direction of their "alledged" beliefs do you think that a good thing?
Tex,
I don't see moving in the direction of true socialism as being a good thing. However, this Country is faced with some financial issues that I don't believe can be cured without without contribution from all.
IMO, one of the first issues that needs to be addressed is SS. Based on information from many experts, removing the current contribution cap will cure future system failure. This may be considered socialistic but I have no problem with it. I am not in favor of redistribution of wealth with regard to social programs with the exception of SS. Currently my FICA contributions stop in September. I would have no problem continuing to pay FICA for the remainder of the year in order to preserve the system.
I also see the National Debt as an issue that must be addressed. IMO, this is a also a huge issue.. Decreased govt spending and some increase in taxes may be the only way. However, I really don't know what it will take to reduce the National Debt as I'm not an expert in this regard.
This Country's health care system needs some serious attention as well. I'm not suggesting socialized medicine is the answer. IMO, as it is today, insurance companies and the legal system are the primary causes of the failure. Medical insurance providers operate on a premise of not paying everything that they owe. I have observed this first hand as have most that have ever made a claim. Frivolous med-mal law suits and greed drive the high cost of medical care. What seems to be happening is that medical providers make up for those who can't pay by severely over charging Medicare and sometimes insurance companies. I have brought this up before. Medicare in many cases is paying 400% more for the same service as a private insurer. Also, as a result of the current administration and the drug lobby, by law, Medicare pays full retail for prescription drugs in all cases. As I said,this Country's health care system needs some serious attention.
I do not believe that it is the govts place to bail out failing private pension plans.

[Old Texan]

Tex,
I don't see moving in the direction of true socialism as being a good thing. However, this Country is faced with some financial issues that I don't believe can be cured without without contribution from all.
IMO, one of the first issues that needs to be addressed is SS. Based on information from many experts, removing the current contribution cap will cure future system failure. This may be considered socialistic but I have no problem with it. I am not in favor of redistribution of wealth with regard to social programs with the exception of SS. Currently my FICA contributions stop in September. I would have no problem continuing to pay FICA for the remainder of the year in order to preserve the system.
I also see the National Debt as an issue that must be addressed. IMO, this is a also a huge issue.. Decreased govt spending and some increase in taxes may be the only way. However, I really don't know what it will take to reduce the National Debt as I'm not an expert in this regard.
This Country's health care system needs some serious attention as well. I'm not suggesting socialized medicine is the answer. IMO, as it is toady, insurance companies and the legal system are the primary causes of the failure. Medical insurance providers operate on a premise of not paying everything that they owe. I have observed this first hand as have most that have ever made a claim. Frivolous med-mal law suits and greed drive the high cost of medical care. When seems to be happening is that medical providers make up for those who can't pay by severely over charging Medicare and sometimes insurance companies. I have brought this up before. Medicare in many cases is paying 400% more for the same service as a private insurer. Also, as a result of the current administration and the drug lobby, by law, Medicare pays full retail for prescription drugs in all cases. As I said,this Country's health care system needs some serious attention.
I do not believe that it is the govts place to bail out failing private pension plans.
Good points.
My problem with both Dem frontrunners is the fact neither really has any experience at anything substantial to let us see what they are capable of doing.
Hillary seems to feel the Presidency is her destiny and will show no quarter in order to get in office. Her Senate stint has been quite uneventful and basically seems choreagraphed as only a seteup for the big office. Obama is a realtive unknown that seems to want to be all things to all people. Edwards is a lying ambulance chaser who I would never trust and isn't qualified on top of it all.
On the Rep. McCain is in my opinion a blithering idiot. Guiliani is good domestically but foreign policy wise is questionable, he may be my second choice or possibly Fred Thompson. Thompson is another gray area that I'm sure of his qualifications for the big spot.
My choice at the moment is Romney. I believe he has a good plan for healthcare working in MA and if it is accomplished could be a good thing for the nation. I heard him speak on it and he is working with the insurance companies to make it affordable to the people and the government. His problem will be more selling to the House and Senate as ususally the case with something different. But the plan seems more sensible than either Hillary, or Obama who really has no plan.
Romney strikes me as an honest man from a good background and he is a respectable leader that I don't see as playing politics like the rest of the candidates. Will he get nominated, I can only hope.
SS is a mess and I'm not sure even uncapping the individual contribution is the answer, at least not entirely. I believe SS has been abused by mismanagement by our government. The Medicare drug cost overpayment is another government induced mess that needs cleaning up immediately.
Bottom line we need a leader in office that will use the veto pen and make it known change is needed and wanted by the people, not the special interest groups.
Of course that could be wishful thinking to get a leader of that caliber, but Romney seems so far to fit the bill better than any of the Senators on either side.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Good points.
My problem with both Dem frontrunners is the fact neither really has any experience at anything substantial to let us see what they are capable of doing.
Hillary seems to feel the Presidency is her destiny and will show no quarter in order to get in office. Her Senate stint has been quite uneventful and basically seems choreagraphed as only a seteup for the big office. Obama is a realtive unknown that seems to want to be all things to all people. Edwards is a lying ambulance chaser who I would never trust and isn't qualified on top of it all.
On the Rep. McCain is in my opinion a blithering idiot. Guiliani is good domestically but foreign policy wise is questionable, he may be my second choice or possibly Fred Thompson. Thompson is another gray area that I'm sure of his qualifications for the big spot.
My choice at the moment is Romney. I believe he has a good plan for healthcare working in MA and if it is accomplished could be a good thing for the nation. I heard him speak on it and he is working with the insurance companies to make it affordable to the people and the government. His problem will be more selling to the House and Senate as ususally the case with something different. But the plan seems more sensible than either Hillary, or Obama who really has no plan.
Romney strikes me as an honest man from a good background and he is a respectable leader that I don't see as playing politics like the rest of the candidates. Will he get nominated, I can only hope.
SS is a mess and I'm not sure even uncapping the individual contribution is the answer, at least not entirely. I believe SS has been abused by mismanagement by our government. The Medicare drug cost overpayment is another government induced mess that needs cleaning up immediately.
Bottom line we need a leader in office that will use the veto pen and make it known change is needed and wanted by the people, not the special interest groups.
Of course that could be wishful thinking to get a leader of that caliber, but Romney seems so far to fit the bill better than any of the Senators on either side.
Tex,
Good points as well.
Romney does seem to have some good qualities. and IMO has the best chance to be the next Republican President. I'm still looking and listening
I agree that none on the Democratic side have much of a proven track record to draw from. IMO, the front runners face very large obstacles before they even open their mouths, regarding the issues. One being a woman and the other being Black. I personally don't have a problem with either of these issues but I fear that there are still people in large numbers who will never vote for a black or female Prez.
Obama's lack of political leadership experience, IMO, can be viewed as a positive. He claims he will not affiliate with Washington lobbyists, and this appeals to me. Bush, was at least smart enough to surround himself, in most cases, with intelligent and experienced people. A good way to compensate for lack of experience.
The campaign has barely begun, and it is for this reason, I have not focused my support on any one candidate. I'm still listening and learning.
I will say this, 08 may be one of the most important elections in decades and I hope that the American people realize this that they will get off of their butts and vote.

[eliminatedsprinter]

The biggest problems I have with Obama is that he has a straight line party (leftist) track record with his politics (however much of his spoken message is very positive) and the people he chooses to surround himself with. He hangs out too much with the Maxine Waters type far left racialists and his church, that he is so fond of, is afrocentric to the point of being racist. His spoken words are often one of individual achievement and of interacial unification, however his voting record and his associations seem otherwise. These things give me pause (to say the least).

[never_fast_enuf]

Obama's lack of political leadership experience, IMO, can be viewed as a positive. He claims he will not affiliate with Washington lobbyists, and this appeals to me.
You can't be serious...
Obama adds state lobbyist
ANJEANETTE DAMON
RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
Posted: 8/9/2007
Despite intensifying his rhetoric against Washington lobbyists controlling the political system, U.S. Sen. Barack Obama announced Wednesday the addition of a state lobbyist to his campaign's Nevada steering committee.
Las Vegas lobbyist Helen Foley joins two other veteran state lobbyists, Rose McKinney-James and Billy Vassiliadis, who play senior advising roles with the campaign in Nevada, an important early caucus state.
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/NEWS10/708090335/1016/NEWS

[ULTRA26 # 1]

You can't be serious...
If I wasn't serious, I wouldn't have said it.
[B]"He has vowed not to accept money from federal lobbyists and has disclosed his federal income-tax documents and the earmarks he has sponsored in the Senate."
From your link.

[never_fast_enuf]

If I wasn't serious, I wouldn't have said it.
"He has vowed not to accept money from federal lobbyists and has disclosed his federal income-tax documents and the earmarks he has sponsored in the Senate."
From your link.
LMAO...that is what I thought. You totally ignored his hypocrisy on the subject. Do as I say, not as I do.
So why is it ok to be thick as theives with state lobbyists and not federal?
I bet you also fell for Clinton saying his administration would be the most ethical we have ever seen...or when he said he wouldn't raise taxes on middle America.
Ohhhh the hypocrisy...and nievete you exhibit. But it is kind of cute in a childlike way...

[never_fast_enuf]

Obama defends lobbyist donations
ETHICS LEGISLATION: The Illinois senator said he suffers from the same `original sin' of politicians of having to raise money, but he still wants to clean up the system
AP, DES MOINES, IOWA
Saturday, Aug 18, 2007, Page 7
Senator Barack Obama, who accepts special interest money and played poker with lobbyist friends as a lawmaker in Illinois, acknowledged on Thursday that he swims in "the same muddy water" that corrupts Washington, but he pledged to reform the system if elected next year.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2007/08/18/2003374757
LMAO..."But if elected I will stop!!!"
rotflmao...what kind of niave individual would fall for that?
Never mind...

[never_fast_enuf]

Seriously Ultra...how much more of this can you take? Do you do ANY research on the issues you chose to believe? Now click your heels together three times and say "I believe"
Despite Rhetoric, Obama Pushed Lobbyists' Interests
July 16, 2007 8:00 AM
Justin Rood Reports:
Away from the bright lights and high-minded rhetoric of the campaign trail, Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has quietly worked with corporate lobbyists to help pass breaks worth $12 million.
In his speeches, Obama has lambasted lobbyists and moneyed interests who "have turned our government into a game only they can afford to play."
"It's an entire culture in Washington -- some of it legal, some of it not," the Democratic hopeful told a New York crowd in June, rallying support for his ethics reform agenda.
But last year, at the request of a hired representative for an Australian-owned chemical corporation Nufarm, Obama introduced nine separate bills exempting the company from import fees on a range of chemical ingredients it uses in the manufacture of pesticides and herbicides. Nufarm's U.S. subsidiary is based in Illinois.
Nufarm wasn't the only beneficiary of Obama's efforts to reduce customs fees and duties. In early May of 2006, two Washington lobbyists registered to work on behalf of Astellas Pharma, a Japanese-owned drug company which also has offices in Illinois.
The lobbyists' task? "Introduce legislation to temporarily suspend customs duties for the importation of a pharmaceutical ingredient," they wrote on their lobbying forms. Less than three weeks later, the men had earned their $20,000 fee, thanks to Obama. On May 26, he introduced S. 3155, a bill specifically exempting Astellas' key ingredient from tariff payments. The bill cost the federal government more than $1 million in lost revenue, according to government estimates.
Together, Obama's obscure measures -- known as tariff suspensions -- steered more than $12 million away from federal coffers, according to government estimates.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/07/despite-rhetori.html

[never_fast_enuf]

Oh boy...not another one. Say it ain't SO Ultra!! Do you still believe Ultra?
PACs and lobbyists aided Obama's rise
Data contrast with his theme
Using campaign appearances, e-mails to supporters, and Iowa TV ads, Illinois Senator Barack Obama has repeatedly reminded voters that his presidential campaign does not accept contributions from lobbyists or political action committees, casting his decision as a noble departure from the ways of Washington.
He hit the theme hard again in Tuesday's Democratic debate in Chicago as he sought to capitalize on rival Hillary Clinton's remark last weekend that taking lobbyists' cash is acceptable because they "represent real Americans."
"The people in this stadium need to know who we're going to fight for," Obama said at Soldier Field. "The reason that I'm running for president is because of you, not because of folks who are writing big checks, and that's a clear message that has to be sent, I think, by every candidate."
But behind Obama's campaign rhetoric about taking on special interests lies a more complicated truth. A Globe review of Obama's campaign finance records shows that he collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from lobbyists and PACs as a state legislator in Illinois, a US senator, and a presidential aspirant.
In Obama's eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
Obama's US Senate campaign committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected $128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8 percent of what he has raised overall. Clinton's Senate committee, by comparison, has raised $3 million from PACs, 4 percent of her total amount raised, the group said.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists_aided_obamas_rise/

[ULTRA26 # 1]

LMAO...that is what I thought. You totally ignored his hypocrisy on the subject. Do as I say, not as I do.
So why is it ok to be thick as theives with state lobbyists and not federal?
I bet you also fell for Clinton saying his administration would be the most ethical we have ever seen...or when he said he wouldn't raise taxes on middle America.
Ohhhh the hypocrisy...and nievete you exhibit. But it is kind of cute in a childlike way...
Find a towel and wipe yourself off. That must have been a big one. Political masturbation at it's finest:idea:
The campaign has barely begun, and it is for this reason, I have not focused my support on any one candidate. I'm still listening and learning.
I will say this, 08 may be one of the most important elections in decades and I hope that the American people realize this that they will get off of their butts and vote.
If I wasn't serious, I wouldn't have said it.
Obviously you have made your mind up.
As I stated "I'm still listening and learning". A novel idea apparently.

[eliminatedsprinter]

I'm still listening, to the candidates of all parties, but the only thing I'm learning is how brilliant George Orwell and Ayn Rand really were.:idea:

[never_fast_enuf]

Find a towel and wipe yourself off. That must have been a big one. Political masturbation at it's finest:idea:
Obviously you have made your mind up.
As I stated "I'm still listening and learning". A novel idea apparently.
Well you might want to add homework to your listening skills. Anyone can tell you something...I prefer to look at their actions.
Obama is as full of $hit as a Christmas goose...
BTW, I gave you a chance when I asked if you were serious in my first reply. That was your clue to do some homework. Never let it be said that I am not a nice guy.;)

[never_fast_enuf]

BTW Ultra...ANYONE in Washington who proclaims they will get the money out of the process is full of crap....I don't care what party they belong to.
The money is exactly WHY they are there.

[eliminatedsprinter]

BTW Ultra...ANYONE in Washington who proclaims they will get the money out of the process is full of crap....I don't care what party they belong to.
The money is exactly WHY they are there.
More accuratly, for the power to control other peoples money.:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well you might want to add homework to your listening skills. Anyone can tell you something...I prefer to look at their actions.
Obama is as full of $hit as a Christmas goose...
BTW, I gave you a chance when I asked if you were serious in my first reply. That was your clue to do some homework. Never let it be said that I am not a nice guy.;)
Anyone can tell you something...I prefer to look at their actions..
Anyone can write something, almost as easily.
Look at the candidates actions, I agree.
With regard to you being a "nice guy". I don't think there is any confusion here about this issue.

[never_fast_enuf]

Anyone can tell you something...I prefer to look at their actions..
Anyone can write something, almost as easily.
Look at the candidates actions, I agree.
With regard to you being a "nice guy". I don't think there is any confusion here about this issue.
Pal, I have been very easy on you. You make it easy to slam you as well as make your ideas look as ignorant as they are.
I don't have to do a damn thing but point out how freaking niave you are. If you really want me to step it up, you better get ready for a few more self proclaimed "I am leaving forever" posts...as I recall, your temper sucks and my short time here has already seen you throw a couple of those hissy fits.
LOL...Dude, you are easy money. Take off your high heels and give it a rest.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Pal, I have been very easy on you. You make it easy to slam you as well as make your ideas look as ignorant as they are.
I don't have to do a damn thing but point out how freaking niave you are. If you really want me to step it up, you better get ready for a few more self proclaimed "I am leaving forever" posts...as I recall, your temper sucks and my short time here has already seen you throw a couple of those hissy fits.
LOL...Dude, you are easy money. Take off your high heels and give it a rest.
POLITICAL RHERORIC: Thread = iberals are communists and dems are libs.
And your comments are:
Pal, I have been very easy on you
You make it easy to slam you
I don't have to do a damn thing but point out how freaking niave you are
If you really want me to step it up,
LOL...Dude, you are easy money
Take off your high heels and give it a rest.
This isn't a slam contest and will leave it at that.

[QuickJet]

This isn't a slam contest and will leave it at that.
Not a slam contest but you sure do open a lot of doors that make it easy for them to point out exactly how stupid you really are.
What happened to your self induced hiatus?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Not a slam contest but you sure do open a lot of doors that make it easy for them to point out exactly how stupid you really are.
What happened to your self induced hiatus?
Let's see QJ, ,,,,,,,,it ended.
As I stated "I'm still listening and learning". A novel idea apparently.

[never_fast_enuf]

This isn't a slam contest and will leave it at that.
No, it isn't but you seem to whine more than anyone when your feelings collide with the facts. It seems to be something you are not adept at dealing with. Really, don't feel bad....I have yet to run across a liberal that can deal with the fact that almost everything they "feel" is based in pure fantasy. That just has to suck for you.
Better buck up because I am going to stick around for a while longer just so I can point out the sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of most of your left wing stances. Either you can defend your "feelings" or you can continue to whine when I and others point out the lunacy of those same "feelings".

[SmokinLowriderSS]

As I stated "I'm still listening and learning". A novel idea apparently.
Apparently, now not so much.
It really doesn't matter that Obama is takign from the lobyists, just liek everyone does.
What matters is his hypocritical stance against it, while keeping his back pocket open for them.
Just like the Algore and his global-warming fleece scheme.
If he was saying we need to stop this "catastrophe" from happening, and was living in a SMALL HOUSE, driving a hybrud, NOT FLYING, NOT SPONSORING POWER-HOGGING CONCERTS, not "buyin g carbon credit (yet another self-made scam), He would not deserve the scorn he gets.
Just like your "only driven 3 days a month" truck, or your 500 CID boat engine simply beacuse "it's fuel injected".
Hypocrisy is what pisses off the reasonable people, not behavior.
My life is making no attempts to be "environmentally correct", and I have no high-horse to claim to ride on, unlike some. Thus, nobody has any leverage to give me crap over my toys, since I don't claim my toys are "better for the environment" than theirs are.
At least Hillary is honest enough to TELL YOU she thinks Lobbyist and PAC $$$ is OK to take, whether you like her reason or not.
Dear Obama tells you he won't do it, and rails against it, then does it.
Kinda like 'ole Reverend Jerry Fallwell and his 2 (or was it 3) hookers he got smoked with.
HYPOCRISY.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

.as I recall, your temper sucks and my short time here has already seen you throw a couple of those hissy fits.
Even went to another forum to TRY to find support for a urinating contest over an irrelevant number he fixated on, and didn't find any. LMFFAO! :D
Let's see QJ, ,,,,,,,,it ended.
3 minuites after it began. :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

No, it isn't but you seem to whine more than anyone when your feelings collide with the facts. It seems to be something you are not adept at dealing with. Really, don't feel bad....I have yet to run across a liberal that can deal with the fact that almost everything they "feel" is based in pure fantasy. That just has to suck for you.
Better buck up because I am going to stick around for a while longer just so I can point out the sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of most of your left wing stances. Either you can defend your "feelings" or you can continue to whine when I and others point out the lunacy of those same "feelings".
Have at it. Are you going to get tough now? :D
Feelings aren't good or bad, right or wrong, they just are.
I'm done pissing, are you're just getting started.

[never_fast_enuf]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2744391]
Feelings aren't good or bad, right or wrong, they just are.
QUOTE]
Wow...This might just be the first time a lib has actually admitted that. It is exactly what allows you to totally disregard facts that 100% contradict those "feelings". It is what keeps your world from flying apart. It is your security blanket...they allow you to put your fingers in your ear like the three year old and scream "la la la I can't hear you" when forced to deal with facts that render your feelings baseless.
As for Obama...I can see why you like him. You two think alike...and are just as hypocritical.
Earlier this year, Obama was in Detroit, bashing the car manufactures for their "gas guzzlers". What does Obama drive? Well a 340 hp Hemi powered Chrysler 300C of course...
OHHHH the hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do. How freaking perfect is that.

[never_fast_enuf]

Or how about last year at this time when BO lectured the audience of a town hall meeting on the evils of gas guzzling vehicles and how they create man made global warming...then he got into the back seat of an SUV and they drove off...
LMAO..Yep Ultra, he is your man!! You liberals are so simple it is amusing...and sad all at once.
"BUT!! BUT!! BUT!!! WHAT ABOUT MY FEELINGS!!"
BWAAAAAHAAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Suckerrrrrrrrrrrrr

[never_fast_enuf]

Lets play a game Ultra. I will keep it simple so you can follow along.
Who said this?
"Over the objections of powerful voices in both parties, we shined a bright light on how lobbyists help fill the campaign coffers of members of Congress. And we made sure those lobbyists will have to disclose who they’re raising campaign money from, and who in Congress they’re funneling it to."
and this?
"Big money and lobbyists were clearly drowning out the aspirations of the American people. So when my party made me the point person on ethics, I was determined to pass the strongest reform possible. The first time around, Congress came up with a watered-down version. And I was proud to vote against it."
Because I am feeling generous, and I know you need the help, how about a hint...His initials are BO.
Now lets take a look at an excerpt from an article the Chicago Tribune did on that same BO guy (yep, another hint...it's a male)
"But his U.S. Senate campaign raised at least $1.2 million of its $15 million total from special-interest PACs, according to fundraising tracker PoliticalMoneyLine.com. And in January 2005, 20 days after he was sworn into the U.S. Senate, Obama launched his own PAC, Hopefund, which raised $4.4 million over two years, making it one of the largest PACs members of Congress have established to fund other candidates.
Obama has distributed Hopefund’s dollars to Democratic organizations across the country, the Tribune’s analysis shows, including in the early presidential battleground states of Iowa and New Hampshire as well as Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida."
Again, who say's I am not a nice guy. Look how much I helped you in this latest round of political Jeopardy. Category is "Hypocritical presidential wanna b's and the minions that blindly follow"
How are those "feelings" working for you now Ultra?
Suckerrrrrrrrrr

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Apparently, now not so much.
It really doesn't matter that Obama is takign from the lobyists, just liek everyone does.
What matters is his hypocritical stance against it, while keeping his back pocket open for them.
Just like the Algore and his global-warming fleece scheme.
If he was saying we need to stop this "catastrophe" from happening, and was living in a SMALL HOUSE, driving a hybrud, NOT FLYING, NOT SPONSORING POWER-HOGGING CONCERTS, not "buyin g carbon credit (yet another self-made scam), He would not deserve the scorn he gets.
Just like your "only driven 3 days a month" truck, or your 500 CID boat engine simply beacuse "it's fuel injected".
Hypocrisy is what pisses off the reasonable people, not behavior.
My life is making no attempts to be "environmentally correct", and I have no high-horse to claim to ride on, unlike some. Thus, nobody has any leverage to give me crap over my toys, since I don't claim my toys are "better for the environment" than theirs are.
At least Hillary is honest enough to TELL YOU she thinks Lobbyist and PAC $$$ is OK to take, whether you like her reason or not.
Dear Obama tells you he won't do it, and rails against it, then does it.
Kinda like 'ole Reverend Jerry Fallwell and his 2 (or was it 3) hookers he got smoked with.
HYPOCRISY.
There isn't much out there to choose from on either side of the fence, so excuse me if I feel the need to continue listening and learning
Al Gore is what he is. Some see him as a POS and others see him as good man. People have the right to make their own decisions. Does it matter?
Do Jerry Falwell, Mark Foley, or Ted Haggert matter? Why does it matter to you what anyone thinks about these guys. I suspect that it comes from your belief that your way is the only way.
If I had commented about Hilary, you would be ripping on her. If I commented about Edwards, Gore, Wille, Carter or any other Democrat, your response would have been the same.
You support a President, that has done little in the way of Conservative politics. Aren't you being a hypocrite?
Wow...This might just be the first time a lib has actually admitted that. It is exactly what allows you to totally disregard facts that 100% contradict those "feelings". It is what keeps your world from flying apart. It is your security blanket...they allow you to put your fingers in your ear like the three year old and scream "la la la I can't hear you" when forced to deal with facts that render your feelings baseless.
As for Obama...I can see why you like him. You two think alike...and are just as hypocritical.
Earlier this year, Obama was in Detroit, bashing the car manufactures for their "gas guzzlers". What does Obama drive? Well a 340 hp Hemi powered Chrysler 300C of course...
OHHHH the hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do. How freaking perfect is that.
All politicians are hypocrites. Based on your 10 post Obama rant, this must be something you just figured out.
Have you pulled out the stops yet? :)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

You support a President, that has done little in the way of Conservative politics. Aren't you being a hypocrite?
Again, you pay VERRY LITTLE ATTENTION to exactly WHAT I have supported, nad what I have not supported.
I support Pres Bush in protecting this country (and you) from people who want to kill you.
I have NOT SUPPORTED the last "immigration reform" he wanted to push.
I guess with your "feelings", since I voted for him instead of a lying, ticket-punching, vietnam veteran who has no deserving of the 3 purple hearts he scammed from the govt, who calls US SOLDIERS TERRORISTS (in the press), then I somehow support hius immigration policy he wanted?
Since I voted for him in 2004, and support his spending money to support the US millitary while in a conflict with enemies who want you dead, I guess that means I support his apparent refusal to line-item veto the pork spending he consistently approves in every spending bill that crosses his desk, and that I must have been a supporter of the govt-precription drug plan (which I WAS & AM NOT.)
Again, as usual, your feelings are separate from reality, and no ammount of reality would connect them.
If I had my way about prescription meds, YOUR EMPLOYER would have bennefitted (and you would have had more fraud to alledgedly "investigate"), since you claim that as a means of earning a living, "investigating".
Eliminate the law that bars the existence of pvt insurance plans for prescriptions unless it is contained within a health insurance plan.
THAT is the "good, conservative" solution. NOT the one you THINK I support, simply because I can deal with the reality of how Al-Gore TRIED to steal an election from Bush with a lawsuit for VERY SELECTED recounts, in carefully selected counties he already won, while his people spent all election day setting it up with all-day complaints about the butterfly ballot, trying to make the entire process questionable.
Diebold machine complaints are smokescreen, smokescreen you can't see through. The 4-county recount, and the day-before and election day activities tell a much darker tale.
A tale I have brought up, that yoiu ignore, just like Obama's hipocrisy.
You want him or Hillary in in '08 tho, you have at least indirectly said as much. You want ANY democrat, and they are the 2 you will get to choose from.
The Breck Girl and the My Pretty Pony campain is done, he just doesn't know it.
There's ANOTHER screaming hipocrite for ya.
I support Scooter Libby, since he was convicted in a "perjury trap" when he THOUGHT he was the one who released Plame's name, but turned out he was wrong. He was beaten to the "outing" by Armitidge, who remains unconvicted of a crime, since there was no crime.
YOU still think The VP has some responsibility, and wish the Spec. Prosecutor wouldf have convicted HIM of something, yet you cannot point to a crime. Just "feelings".
I'd like to knwo just what YOU THINK the Spec. Porsecutor's job even WAS, since the FBI determined who the leaker wasm before the SP was even named, and they gave the information to him.
DAY 1, the Spec. Pros. KNEW THE "OUTER", so just what was his purpose?
His job was to hang SOMETHING, ANYTHING on the Bush administration, ANYTHING.
In all my posts squaring away the difference between your "feelings" and "reality", you STILL try to pidgeon-hole me as a "blind bushie" like clown does.
Neatly pidgeon-holed and labeled is easy to deal with. Takes no thought on your part, and certainly no "investigating".
Problem is, it leaves you wrong A LOT.

[Schiada76]

All politicians are hypocrites. Based on your 10 post Obama rant, this must be something you just figured out.
Have you pulled out the stops yet?
The current POTUS is a lot of things, hypocrite is not one of them. It's the main reason liberals hate him so much, he has the balls to make a stand.:rolleyes:

[never_fast_enuf]

So Ultra finally gives in and uses the "everybody does it" excuse, after being burned by what he claimed is a high point of Obama.
Is THAT how you learn Ultra? You make a comment on what you like about a candidate and when someone shows you that what you like isn't real, you fall back on "everybody does it"?
As much as you back up, you should have eyes implanted into the back of your head.
BTW...W has been a big disappointment on the domestic front, other than cutting taxes which is my biggest domestic issue. Spending is second and he, along with the rest of the current crop of repubs get an F as far as I am concerned.
Protecting the nation, which is the NUMBER ONE JOB of the federal government, I give W and the rpubs very high marks...especially considering the fact that he inherited a mess from the previous administration who's number one job was hiding the floozy of the day...Clinton did NOTHING on terrorism other than talk a not even so good game.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The current POTUS is a lot of things, hypocrite is not one of them. It's the main reason liberals hate him so much, he has the balls to make a stand.:rolleyes:
W promised smaller Govt, less Govt spending, he promised to use the Veto pen, and he has does the complete opposite. Granted he has not been a hypocrite about the war in Iraq.
So Ultra finally gives in and uses the "everybody does it" excuse, after being burned by what he claimed is a high point of Obama.
Is THAT how you learn Ultra? You make a comment on what you like about a candidate and when someone shows you that what you like isn't real, you fall back on "everybody does it"?
As much as you back up, you should have eyes implanted into the back of your head.
BTW...W has been a big disappointment on the domestic front, other than cutting taxes which is my biggest domestic issue. Spending is second and he, along with the rest of the current crop of repubs get an F as far as I am concerned.
Protecting the nation, which is the NUMBER ONE JOB of the federal government, I give W and the rpubs very high marks...especially considering the fact that he inherited a mess from the previous administration who's number one job was hiding the floozy of the day...Clinton did NOTHING on terrorism other than talk a not even so good game.
Again, you bring nothing to the table.
My comment was specific with regard Obama and "WASHINGTON LOBBYISTS". You attached a simple comment and have run it into the ground. But I guess that's how you get off.
You talk shit really well. How about you start talking about what needs to be fixed and how you would go about the fix. You know what I mean. Think for a change instead of just running your mouth.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Think for a change instead of just running your mouth.
Now THAT'S funny right there, considering the source. :idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Now THAT'S funny right there, considering the source. :idea:
Glad you thought so, SmokinTuner 16:1. And how were you going to tune each cylinder with the 8
o2 sensors you spoke of installing?
Now that was funny
BYW, if you were only referring to cubic inch fuel volume, why did you include EFI and Carb in your example. Again, you boast of being a truthful person but apparently, that doesn't apply when your internet manhood is at stake.

[never_fast_enuf]

W promised smaller Govt, less Govt spending, he promised to use the Veto pen, and he has does the complete opposite. Granted he has not been a hypocrite about the war in Iraq.
Again, you bring nothing to the table.
My comment was specific with regard Obama and "WASHINGTON LOBBYISTS". You attached a simple comment and have run it into the ground. But I guess that's how you get off.
You talk shit really well. How about you start talking about what needs to be fixed and how you would go about the fix. You know what I mean. Think for a change instead of just running your mouth.
Clearly, I made a mistake here...I just assumed that you know what a lobbyist is.
My bad...
Note to self...spell everything out to Ultra next time you show his ignorance on a subject as he will be the last one to understand.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Kinda like 'ole Reverend Jerry Fallwell and his 2 (or was it 3) hookers he got smoked with.
HYPOCRISY.
That was Jimmy Swaggart and or Jim Baker you are thinking of.
I was no fan of Jerry Fallwell, but I have to concede, that it seems he did live a very clean life and practiced what he preached.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Clearly, I made a mistake here...I just assumed that you know what a lobbyist is.
My bad...
Note to self...spell everything out to Ultra next time you show his ignorance on a subject as he will be the last one to understand.
I'm still waiting for the onslaught. It's about as I fugured, just more of your same ol, same ol, BS. :sleeping:
Use your head and come up with an issue that needs resolve that let's discuss how to correct it.
That was Jimmy Swaggart and or Jim Baker you are thinking of.
I was no fan of Jerry Fallwell, but I have to concede, that it seems he did live a very clean life and practiced what he preached.
ES, thanks for pointing that out

[never_fast_enuf]

Ultra, your head is burried so far up your a$$ you won't see the light of day for years.
Note to self...Ultra can't read so no matter how slow I type it or how I spell it out, he still will not understand the material in front of him.
Dude, you are dumb as a rock...and don't mind putting that stupidity on display for the world to see.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ultra, your head is burried so far up your a$$ you won't see the light of day for years.
Note to self...Ultra can't read so no matter how slow I type it or how I spell it out, he still will not understand the material in front of him.
Dude, you are dumb as a rock...and don't mind putting that stupidity on display for the world to see.
Again
I'm still waiting for the onslaught. It's about as I fugured, just more of your same ol, same ol, BS. :sleeping:
Use your head and come up with an issue that needs resolve that let's discuss how to correct it.
FYI It's not my stupidity that you're putting on display

[eliminatedsprinter]

W promised smaller Govt, less Govt spending, he promised to use the Veto pen, and he has does the complete opposite.
Just to clarify the semantics.;)
I see this as more of him being a wuss than a hypocrite. He has wussed out big time in his failure to use his veto pen, failure to push to make his tax cuts permanent, his supporting "No Child Left Behind", and his immigration stance. VP Gore is a more classic example of a Hypocrite, because he has made the environment his biggest major issue since 1989, yet he has lived a very different personal lifestye the entire time. He never even bothered to make his own homes as eco-friendly most evironmentally concious people in his income bracket routinely do and he has only recently even started making his homes more eco friendly after comming under fire for his hypocrisy. In addition, his largest source of campaign (and much of his personal) income has come from Occidental Petrolium.

[never_fast_enuf]

Again
I'm still waiting for the onslaught. It's about as I fugured, just more of your same ol, same ol, BS. :sleeping:
Use your head and come up with an issue that needs resolve that let's discuss how to correct it.
FYI It's not my stupidity that you're putting on display
Clearly it is as you seem to be the only one who can ignore the posts I put up showing Obama's actions don't represent his rhetoric. Only his complete ignorant minions have the ability to ignore that FACT.
I bet you still defend "it depends on the meaning of IS is"...
Buck up Ultra...you are backed into a corner again and acting like the info isn't there isn't working.
Are you now conceding that what BO says is more important that what he does? So far, that has been your defense.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Just to clarify the semantics.;)
I see this as more of him being a wuss than a hypocrite. He has wussed out big time in his failure to use his veto pen, failure to push to make his tax cuts permanent, his supporting "No Child Left Behind", and his immigration stance. VP Gore is a more classic example of a Hypocrite, because he has made the environment his biggest major issue since 1989, yet he has lived a very different personal lifestye the entire time. He never even bothered to make his own homes as eco-friendly most evironmentally concious people in his income bracket routinely do and he has only recently even started making his homes more eco friendly after comming under fire for his hypocrisy. In addition, his largest source of campaign (and much of his personal) income has come from Occidental Petrolium.
ES,
I suggest that you read a bit more about Gore's personal energy sources. Based on available information, Gore pays a hefty price to his local power company for them to provide a good portion of his household energy from wind and solar power. I don't believe Gore has suggested that we stop using oil. That wouldn't be reasonable. How is it that your comment that much of his income has come from Occidental Petroleum makes him a hypocrite.
Before everyone gets all works up I am questioning ES on one specific issue.
When a politician runs on platform of less govt and less spending and then does the opposite, I consider that to hypocritical. Promising one thing and doing another. Isn't that what politicians usually do?
Clearly it is as you seem to be the only one who can ignore the posts I put up showing Obama's actions don't represent his rhetoric. Only his complete ignorant minions have the ability to ignore that FACT.
I bet you still defend "it depends on the meaning of IS is"...
Buck up Ultra...you are backed into a corner again and acting like the info isn't there isn't working.
Are you now conceding that what BO says is more important that what he does? So far, that has been your defense.
I stated many posts ago that all politicians are hypocrites. Please point out where I've laid out any defense of this issue at all.
You will much better off when you learn less is better.
I'm still waiting for you get all tough and sh*t. Isn't that where you indicated this was going?

[eliminatedsprinter]

ES,
I suggest that you read a bit more about Gore's personal energy sources. Based on available information, Gore pays a hefty price to his local power company for them to provide a good portion of his household energy from wind and solar power. I don't believe Gore has suggested that we stop using oil. That wouldn't be reasonable. How is it that your comment that much of his income has come from Occidental Petroleum makes him a hypocrite.
Before everyone gets all works up I am questioning ES on one specific issue.
When a politician runs on platform of less govt and less spending and then does the opposite, I consider that to hypocritical. Promising one thing and doing another. Isn't that what politicians usually do?
I stated many posts ago that all politicians are hypocrites. Please point out where I've laid out any defense of this issue at all.
You will much better off when you learn less is better.
I'm still waiting for you get all tough and sh*t. Isn't that where you indicated this was going?
I mentioned that VP Gore has made recent improvements in his own personal energy use (in response to criticizm that started back in the late 90s). However, he has been on his crusade since the 1980s and his personal improvement is much more recent. I found it more than a bit Hypocritical when VP Gore said when he ran against Bush that he was running against Bush and "Big Oil" and he kept blasting Bush as the big oil candidate, when he was the one of the 2 who's career financial backing has been the most dependant on oil co money...
Why should I point out where you "laid out any defense or this issue" I never said you did. I just wanted to take another shot at my personal least favorite hyocrite VP Gore, because I think he is the hyocracy champ of them all.:)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

That was Jimmy Swaggart and or Jim Baker you are thinking of.
I was no fan of Jerry Fallwell, but I have to concede, that it seems he did live a very clean life and practiced what he preached.
Yep, I just dug it up. I DID mean Jimmy Swaggert, and was mistaken in my off-the-cuff memory.
My apology to Mr Fallwell (even tho he'll never have been reading this or my mistaken accusation).
Thaks for the correction es. :)
What I just found was funniest.
The biggest hypocrisy wasn't Swaggert's being with hookers (twice).
It was his being with hookers AFTER EXPOSING Assemblies of God minister Marvin Gorman AND Reverend James Bakker FOR SEXUAL INDISCRESSIONS OF THEIR OWN. He called Bakker "A cancer in the body of Christ.", and Goreman tried to blackmail Swaggert with the photos he got, before releasing them to the church heirarchy.
Bad for them, OK for him.
Only the first got the tearfull apopogy.
The seccond time got a "The Lord told me it's flat none of your business."
Cool the things you find if you "investigate". :idea: :D :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I mentioned that VP Gore has made recent improvements in his own personal energy use (in response to criticizm that started back in the late 90s). However, he has been on his crusade since the 1980s and his personal improvement is much more recent. I found it more than a bit Hypocritical when VP Gore said when he ran against Bush that he was running against Bush and "Big Oil" and he kept blasting Bush as the big oil candidate, when he was the one of the 2 who's career financial backing has been the most dependant on oil co money...
Why should I point out where you "laid out any defense or this issue" I never said you did. I just wanted to take another shot at my personal least favorite hyocrite VP Gore, because I think he is the hyocracy champ of them all.:)
ES, my comment with regard to "laid out any defense of this issue" wasn't pointed at you. I was un response to the 2nd quote in my post.
I agree that Gore running against "Bush and Big Oil" with Gore's oil background, was the epitome of hypocrisy.

[eliminatedsprinter]

ES, my comment with regard to "laid out any defense of this issue" wasn't pointed at you. I was un response to the 2nd quote in my post.
I agree that Gore running against "Bush and Big Oil" with Gore's oil background, was the epitome of hypocrisy.
Ok then I'll assume that your question on President Bush's hypocrisy was your main one directed at me.
Answer: Yes. His running on a limited government platform and in fact increasing government is hypocritical. It is an apperent paradox that the limited government party, in fact, expanded government once they had full control of 2 of the 3 main branches of government. That is because the temptation to buy votes with public largess and to expand power when given power is apparently currently stronger than political ideology. It is also because domestically President Bush is a wuss, who has caved in to both his own party and the dems and faild to veto their spending bills.
This tells me several things:
#1. Power currupts
#2. All politicians and government must be watched closely and never given more power than is absolutly necessary.
#3. GOD HELP US IF THE PARTY WHO'S PLATFORM ACTUALLY CALLS FOR THE EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT POWER EVER AGAIN GETS THE SAME CONTROL THE REPUBLICIANS HAD.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ok then I'll assume that your question on President Bush's hypocrisy was your main one directed at me.
Answer: Yes. His running on a limited government platform and in fact increasing government is hypocritical. It is an apperent paradox that the limited government party, in fact, expanded government once they had full control of 2 of the 3 main branches of government. That is because the temptation to buy votes with public largess and to expand power when given power is apparently currently stronger than political ideology. It is also because domestically President Bush is a wuss, who has caved in to both his own party and the dems and faild to veto their spending bills.
This tells me several things:
#1. Power currupts
#2. All politicians and government must be watched closely and never given more power than is absolutly necessary.
#3. GOD HELP US IF THE PARTY WHO'S PLATFORM ACTUALLY CALLS FOR THE EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT POWER EVER AGAIN GETS THE SAME CONTROL THE REPUBLICIANS HAD.
Actually ES I wasn't asking any questions. Good post.

[never_fast_enuf]

Lets see Ultra...You said on post #35
Obama's lack of political leadership experience, IMO, can be viewed as a positive. He claims he will not affiliate with Washington lobbyists, and this appeals to me.
I proceeded to post example after example of how he is taking money hand over fist from lobbyists and the only defense you can muster is "all politicians are hypocrites".
Well done ye little liberal minion...well done. Sooner or later you are going to be forced to pull those fingers out of your ears and actually listen.
Your intelligence level in this thread is typical of the brain dead libs you so aptly represent.
Clearly, you go into la la land when your naivety is pointed out and that is just about every thread.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Lets see Ultra...You said on post #35
Obama's lack of political leadership experience, IMO, can be viewed as a positive. He claims he will not affiliate with Washington lobbyists, and this appeals to me.
I proceeded to post example after example of how he is taking money hand over fist from lobbyists and the only defense you can muster is "all politicians are hypocrites".
Well done ye little liberal minion...well done. Sooner or later you are going to be forced to pull those fingers out of your ears and actually listen.
Your intelligence level in this thread is typical of the brain dead libs you so aptly represent.
Clearly, you go into la la land when your naivety is pointed out and that is just about every thread.
The redundant one returns:
My comment:
He claims he will not affiliate with Washington lobbyists.
I remember it well. Do you read this to say STATE LOBBYISTS?
__________________________________________________ _______
A few more of your less than classic one liners:
Dude, you are dumb as a rock...
Ultra, your head is burried so far up your a$$ you won't see the light of day for years.
Well done ye little liberal minion
Your intelligence level in this thread is typical of the brain dead libs you so aptly represent.
Clearly, you go into la la land
With the threats of you getting tough on me and all of the self posted banter about what a master political debater you are, I really expected more. Instead your still spewing the same old "Liberal minion" and "head up your ass" BS that is typical of 6th grade playground behavior.
If you want to debate issues, let's talk. If you continue to keep rambling the same sh*t that we all heard over and over and over, again, I would be surprised if anyone will come out and play with you.

[never_fast_enuf]

So if you think it is good he says he will not take money from "Washington" lobbyist, why do you not think it is bad that he takes so much money from "state" lobbyist? How in the hell can you honestly parse the two? How in the hell can you honestly say you like what someone says who so blatantly talks out of both sides of their mouths yet you decide to ignore it just because their name is proceeded with a D and you like them as a presidential candidate?
Face it Ultra, honesty isn't something you are interested in at all.
As far as me getting tough with you, again you don't have the mental capacity to understand it already happened. You were so overwhelmed with the facts and your uncontrollable Obama boot licking, you simply decided to ignore the thread and carry on with your "I can't hear you" tirade.

[centerhill condor]

the part I liked in the most recent dem "debate"...was when Sen. Dodd said, we should take the money out of politics by having the gov't pay for the election process.
Why the hell not, we subsidize football, baseball, hockey and other strap hangers...why not subsidize politicians?
WTF.. you wanna take the money out of politics stop cuttin' checks to every sad story that comes walkin' down the street...oh, you poor thing, your cat got hit by a car, your mom was a slut, born poor, act crazy, too old to work, hooked on junk, or just plain fat....let me cut you a check for the psych harm you suffered since you, no doubt, will remain unemployable for the duration.
Here's your communism under the guise of liberalism! and buddy you're gettin' exactly what you pay for....more people realize its easier to stand in line for a check than to get off the old ass makin', selling, servicing a better country.
CC

[eliminatedsprinter]

The corruption starts when government has the ability to take money from Paul and give it to Peter. The more government has the ablity to take, controll, and distribute funds the more corrupt it will be.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

the part I liked in the most recent dem "debate"...was when Sen. Dodd said, we should take the money out of politics by having the gov't pay for the election process.
Why the hell not, we subsidize football, baseball, hockey and other strap hangers...why not subsidize politicians?
WTF.. you wanna take the money out of politics stop cuttin' checks to every sad story that comes walkin' down the street...oh, you poor thing, your cat got hit by a car, your mom was a slut, born poor, act crazy, too old to work, hooked on junk, or just plain fat....let me cut you a check for the psych harm you suffered since you, no doubt, will remain unemployable for the duration.
Here's your communism under the guise of liberalism! and buddy you're gettin' exactly what you pay for....more people realize its easier to stand in line for a check than to get off the old ass makin', selling, servicing a better country.
CC
more people realize its easier to stand in line for a check than to get off the old ass makin', selling, servicing a better
CC,
This comment suggests that there are more people standing in lines that there are working which is total BS. The majority of the people in the country work hard. Even the damn illegals work hard. There are some who work the system and the Govt needs better controls in place to control this.
BYW, I happen to agree with the concept that the Govt should pay for Federal Elections. The American people ultimately pay for elections anyway.
CC think about this. You lost your job and medical insurance. You try and try to get a job that paid enough to make your bills and provide you with insuance without success. You get into a car accident with an uninured motorist and are seriuosly injured. Should you just die becuase you can't afford the medical help you require?
Even better, put one of your children in the above position and consider that you had no way to offer financial help. Should your kid just be allowed to die?
Those who cheat and steal from the system are a**holes. They are criminals who are breaking the law and should be prosicuted.

[centerhill condor]

...I like the Obama switch...how would you feel if you lost your job and became injured, etc, etc..
I'd like to help you out...which way did you come in?
By definition I can't lose my job.
I have health insurance, uninsured driver coverage, short term disability, and long term care...all of which I pay myself and have for about 20 years. I also have some money in an emergency fund for just such an occasion. When people live within their means such preparations can be made.
I also take personal responsibility for my physical health. I go to the gym regularly and watch what I eat 'cause I understand the CONSEQUENCES of making poor choices relative to my health.
In the old days we had charities; churches, civic groups, etc...and they would "help out" people in difficult circumstances. However, they wouldn't continue to help (more properly, enable) folks that didn't learn from their mistakes.
The current gov't healthcare/welfare/WIC programs encourage a complete lack of personal responsiblity because there are no negative personal consequences. They'll get diabetes and gov't meds, they'll have all kinds of kids they can't feed and gov't food, housing, etc, etc, etc.
Type why this is better than letting people reap the consequences of their own choices. We're dumbing down the population in the name of helping the needy...all the while teaching survival of the fitest.
LBJ's war on poverty is lost and we should bring home the army of checkwriters so they can get real jobs.
In my experience, and I have some...the gov't programs that cover such personal tragedies pay after you've lost everything anyway so why have 'em? to get you stuck in the poverty cycle then you're an easy target for vote buying.
Many bankruptcies and foreclosures are caused by such personal tragedies.
people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.
I bet you like gov't money for elections...I've already stated why I think it is a dumb idea and I understand why you propose such a program...cause you buy that commie crapola.
How 'bout we elect people that are morally upright? just an idea.
CC

[ULTRA26 # 1]

...I like the Obama switch...how would you feel if you lost your job and became injured, etc, etc..
I'd like to help you out...which way did you come in?
By definition I can't lose my job.
I have health insurance, uninsured driver coverage, short term disability, and long term care...all of which I pay myself and have for about 20 years. I also have some money in an emergency fund for just such an occasion. When people live within their means such preparations can be made.
I also take personal responsibility for my physical health. I go to the gym regularly and watch what I eat 'cause I understand the CONSEQUENCES of making poor choices relative to my health.
In the old days we had charities; churches, civic groups, etc...and they would "help out" people in difficult circumstances. However, they wouldn't continue to help (more properly, enable) folks that didn't learn from their mistakes.
The current gov't healthcare/welfare/WIC programs encourage a complete lack of personal responsiblity because there are no negative personal consequences. They'll get diabetes and gov't meds, they'll have all kinds of kids they can't feed and gov't food, housing, etc, etc, etc.
Type why this is better than letting people reap the consequences of their own choices. We're dumbing down the population in the name of helping the needy...all the while teaching survival of the fitest.
LBJ's war on poverty is lost and we should bring home the army of checkwriters so they can get real jobs.
In my experience, and I have some...the gov't programs that cover such personal tragedies pay after you've lost everything anyway so why have 'em? to get you stuck in the poverty cycle then you're an easy target for vote buying.
Many bankruptcies and foreclosures are caused by such personal tragedies.
people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.
I bet you like gov't money for elections...I've already stated why I think it is a dumb idea and I understand why you propose such a program...cause you buy that commie crapola.
How 'bout we elect people that are morally upright? just an idea.
CC
CC, By definition I can't lose my job. Please elaborate on the type of job that you have that can't be lost? Your not old enough to be be collecting SS, unless you're disabled. Maybe you're independently wealthy. Again, please elaborate
I'm glad that it is impossible for you or your children to encounter any need for assistance. You are the only one I have talked with who owns 100% protection. While I'm sure you believe this to be true, I don't believe it is.
Good choices with regard to your health are important, I agree. However, not everyone is so fortunate to be given a choice.
There are many hard working people in this Country who are not as fortunate as yourself with regard to being sheltered from all disaster or tragedy. Based on your way of thinking, everyone should fen for themselves, with only civic groups, churches and charities to assist. The problem with this logic is that civic groups and charities don't have the financial means to deal with national disasters, and the enormous wealth held by Churches is tied up in tax exempt business ventures.
No need for govt assistance right? Why should your tax dollars be spent helping others? In your mind you shouldn't be forced to help anyone you don't want to help. You must be one of those people who donate thousands to your church, to civic groups and/or charities every time there is a national disaster. Well I take my hat off to you, as you are a better man than most, including I.
The problem with your way of thinking is that it is contrary to established American way of life. I understand and agree with your anger with those who abuse the system. However, it is up to those that manage the system to weed out the BS
When you were still working as a machinist there had to have been those, in your view, who didn't work as hard as you did and got paid more. Did this cause you to be angry with the slackers or did it make you angry with Management for allowing it. Many of your comments suggest that you would be pissed off at the slacker and management.
In my view this is a management issue, just as allowing abuse of Govt systems, is a management issue. There will always be those who are givers and those who are takers. Neither of us has the ability to change this. We don't need more management we need better management.
The assistance systems in place that help those who have lost everything, are on place to help these poeple to get back on their feet, and not starve to death. Your suggestion these systems serve no purpose other then to establish targets for vote buying, is.... I'm not even going to comment on this.
people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan. A nice sentiment. Everyone is not as smart you are. The problem is that there are too many variables and even those as smart you, can't have a plan for everything.
Morally upright as in Christian? Honest and ethically upright better describes how I see it.
Your view of thoughts of a method of cleaning up the corruption in Washington as being "commie crapola" pretty much sums it up.
Edited
"Bushies, we don't need no stinking Bushies" :D :D

[Old Texan]

CC, By definition I can't lose my job. people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan. A nice sentiment. Everyone is not as smart you are. The problem is that there are too many variables and even those as smart you, can't have a plan for everything.
Morally upright as in Christian? Honest and ethically upright better describes how I see it.
:D :D
CC I'm sure will handle a rebuttal to the bulk of this as it seems you 2 have it working. I'm just curious on a couple points theat may not be discussed,
If you can't plan for everyhing, then must you rely on "Luck" or good fortune? This ol luck discussion was mentioned earlier, do you somehow factor "Luck" into your everyday life or feel it's somewhat of a necessity towards survival in life?
Having a working plan to run your life seems very responsible to me and it's often evident that many folks down on their "Luck" have failed to plan ahead. Hmm, coincidence?
Their is far more to being "Morally Upright" than being Christian. In fact I've witnessed a good deal of declared Christians who were quite immoral and were hypocrites. "Honest and Ethically" upright applies to far more folks regardless of spriritual choices.
By the way why is it you always assume all conservatives are religious? Is this an assumption of Liberal thinking or a personal view? Just curious as you have often thrown the religious thing into the desciption of Conservatives, I'd assume as an insinuation of the "Far Right" crazies?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

CC I'm sure will handle a rebuttal to the bulk of this as it seems you 2 have it working. I'm just curious on a couple points theat may not be discussed,
If you can't plan for everyhing, then must you rely on "Luck" or good fortune? This ol luck discussion was mentioned earlier, do you somehow factor "Luck" into your everyday life or feel it's somewhat of a necessity towards survival in life?
Having a working plan to run your life seems very responsible to me and it's often evident that many folks down on their "Luck" have failed to plan ahead. Hmm, coincidence?
Their is far more to being "Morally Upright" than being Christian. In fact I've witnessed a good deal of declared Christians who were quite immoral and were hypocrites. "Honest and Ethically" upright applies to far more folks regardless of spriritual choices.
By the way why is it you always assume all conservatives are religious? Is this an assumption of Liberal thinking or a personal view? Just curious as you have often thrown the religious thing into the deception of Conservatives, I'd assume as an insinuation of the "Far Right" crazies?
Relying on luck isn't wise method of planning one's life especially since some don't believe in the existence of luck. Of course a plans are wise. I was just pointing out to CC that plans can only cover so much. Example: People in Kansas can't buy wind insurance, at least at a price they can afford, I wouldn't think. How does one plan for the loss of an entire town? Not everyone who is a home owner can afford to save enough money to rebuild from such a disaster. The same holds true in earthquake country where coverage is extremely expensive and the deductible is based on 10% of the coverage amount. A $30,000 deductible apples to a $300,000.00 EQ policy. I just don't see Federal assistance programs as being bad things in these or similar types of situations.
The relationship with religion and the conservative Right isn't something that I invented. I'm sure you are aware of this. CC's comment just seemed to bring this to mind.

[eliminatedsprinter]

The relationship with religion and the conservative Right isn't something that I invented. I'm sure you are aware of this.
Of course not. Al Gore invented it...;)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Of course not. Al Gore invented it...;)
:D :D :D

[Old Texan]

Relying on luck isn't wise method of planning one's life especially since some don't believe in the existence of luck. Of course a plans are wise. I was just pointing out to CC that plans can only cover so much. Example: People in Kansas can't buy wind insurance, at least at a price they can afford, I wouldn't think. How does one plan for the loss of an entire town? Not everyone who is a home owner can afford to save enough money to rebuild from such a disaster. The same holds true in earthquake country where coverage is extremely expensive and the deductible is based on 10% of the coverage amount. A $30,000 deductible apples to a $300,000.00 EQ policy. I just don't see Federal assistance programs as being bad things in these or similar types of situations.
The relationship with religion and the conservative Right isn't something that I invented. I'm sure you are aware of this. CC's comment just seemed to bring this to mind.
One of these days we need to get a thread going on the definitons of Left, Right, Liberal, and Conservative in everyone's personal view. These terms get thrown around alot and it seems there are many assumptions made based on personal view rather than actual definition, if an actual agreed upon defininition exists. :idea:
As we all know Blown is NOT a Liberal.:devil: Beyond that it's all rather "grey".:D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

One of these days we need to get a thread going on the definitons of Left, Right, Liberal, and Conservative in everyone's personal view. These terms get thrown around alot and it seems there are many assumptions made based on personal view rather than actual definition, if an actual agreed upon defininition exists. :idea:
As we all know Blown is NOT a Liberal.:devil: Beyond that it's all rather "grey".:D
Not a bad idea, Tex.

[eliminatedsprinter]

One of these days we need to get a thread going on the definitons of Left, Right, Liberal, and Conservative in everyone's personal view. These terms get thrown around alot and it seems there are many assumptions made based on personal view rather than actual definition, if an actual agreed upon defininition exists. :idea:
As we all know Blown is NOT a Liberal.:devil: Beyond that it's all rather "grey".:D
Done for a definition of left.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Example: People in Kansas can't buy wind insurance, at least at a price they can afford.
Hope you see this coming ultra.
Ahem, WRONG!!!
All homeowner's insurance in Kansas, covers damage caused by wind.
High straight line winds from a thunderstorm (happen occasionally over 100MPH). 70 to 75 mph gusts are actually fairly comon.
Winds approaching 220MPH in one of our lovely Tornados. (the reccord was 301mph (+= 20mph) recorded by dopler radar in Moore Oklahoma (Ok City suburb) 3 May 1999 (anemometers don't live long enough).
Standard homeowner's/renter's insurance policies cover the losses/damages from both.
(Renter's does not cover the loss of the rental property, since it is NOT the insured's).
We can ALSO buy insurance against hail (specifically), but that is a farm-crop only item. Hail damage is covered under all other damage loss insurances (homeowner's and automotive comp).
Anything else you need to know mr. INSURANCE INVESTIGATOR? :confused:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Hope you see this coming ultra.
Ahem, WRONG!!!
All homeowner's insurance in Kansas, covers damage caused by wind.
High straight line winds from a thunderstorm (happen occasionally over 100MPH). 70 to 75 mph gusts are actually fairly comon.
Winds approaching 220MPH in one of our lovely Tornados. (the reccord was 301mph (+= 20mph) recorded by dopler radar in Moore Oklahoma (Ok City suburb) 3 May 1999 (anemometers don't live long enough).
Standard homeowner's/renter's insurance policies cover the losses/damages from both.
(Renter's does not cover the loss of the rental property, since it is NOT the insured's).
We can ALSO buy insurance against hail (specifically), but that is a farm-crop only item. Hail damage is covered under all other damage loss insurances (homeowner's and automotive comp).
Anything else you need to know mr. INSURANCE INVESTIGATOR? :confused:
I'm surprised at that. We don't write out of CA. Would seem to be an excluded peril in Tornado country, just as EQ. H/O premiums must be high in KS. I guess I should have used floods in OK as an example.
No, nothing else Ms Weekender.
BTW, how's the tuning coming along in that carbed motor with 8 o2 sensors you were talking about? Be sure you tune it nice and lean, like let's say 16:1 WRONG!!!
Also, have you critiqued any more videos you have seen?

[centerhill condor]

I'm self employed and never been a machinist...if I had those skills I'd have a much better boat..and collecting SS is not a job.
I take it you don't believe "All men are created equal"?
When I type of gov't programs I'm referring specifically of those I've written. I've taken FEMA money and I overcame. Great program for those having a plan from the beginning.
The problem with my line of thinking is that I've seen how Americans are the biggest givers of assistance on earth....and do so freely because it is the right thing to do not because some bleeding heart decides that it is a national tragedy to be old, poor, blind, crippled, etc and must be corrected by legislation. As if a piece of paper can make it right.
This country was founded on rugged individualism. Somehow a bunch of big gov't communists thought it would help destroy our country by turning short term character building exercises into a permanent crutch and thereby create a gov't dependent class with voting rights. The traditional downfall of democratic gov't is voting oneself a check!
We can't depend on civic orgs, churches, etc 'cause the gov't takes too much money from the people to tithe or donate as they feel led. And yes, I have donated thousands and many hours to help others directly and indirectly. You're still young enough to give it a try...might help renew your faith in humanity.
As I see it, the fundamental difference between Ultra and me is for the past 20 years he's been handlin' the cow's tits while I've been handlin' her horns...it do make a difference!
BTW, the harder I work the luckier I get.
CC
CC

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'm self employed and never been a machinist...if I had those skills I'd have a much better boat..and collecting SS is not a job.
I take it you don't believe "All men are created equal"?
When I type of gov't programs I'm referring specifically of those I've written. I've taken FEMA money and I overcame. Great program for those having a plan from the beginning.
The problem with my line of thinking is that I've seen how Americans are the biggest givers of assistance on earth....and do so freely because it is the right thing to do not because some bleeding heart decides that it is a national tragedy to be old, poor, blind, crippled, etc and must be corrected by legislation. As if a piece of paper can make it right.
This country was founded on rugged individualism. Somehow a bunch of big gov't communists thought it would help destroy our country by turning short term character building exercises into a permanent crutch and thereby create a gov't dependent class with voting rights. The traditional downfall of democratic gov't is voting oneself a check!
We can't depend on civic orgs, churches, etc 'cause the gov't takes too much money from the people to tithe or donate as they feel led. And yes, I have donated thousands and many hours to help others directly and indirectly. You're still young enough to give it a try...might help renew your faith in humanity.
As I see it, the fundamental difference between Ultra and me is for the past 20 years he's been handlin' the cow's tits while I've been handlin' her horns...it do make a difference!
BTW, the harder I work the luckier I get.
CC
Sorry CC it was OJ who lost his job to China, my mistake.
You ae correct, that I don't believe that all men are created equal.
So in your opinion FEMA is OK but the others, that you state you have specified are not. You admit to taking FEMA money, and with a plan, you overcame. I wonder how many have taken FEMA money and for some reason, didn't overcome. Based on this should FEMA not be available. I see very little difference with this and many other assistance programs. Some succeed and some don't.
Based on your next statement, with regard to the "old, poor, blind, crippled, etc." it should be quite obvious that all men aren't created equal. In a later comment you state that you have donated thousands and many hours to help others. Just curious how much of your donation went to assist the blind and crippled, you know, those who can't do for themselves and have no family to help. How dare those damn commies want to help these low lifes.
This country was founded on rugged individualism Please quote from the US Constitution anything that even resembles this claim. Your comments regarding big government communists is reality free so I'll just leave it be.
You are under the wrong impression if you believe that Churches, in this Country, are hurting for cash. This may be the case in Bentfork, but it's not the case in the city. Seems that there is plenty to donate even after paying taxes. Churches in this Country are big tax exempt business, plain and simple. Isn't the standard tithe 10% of one's income? Sounds like a church tax to me.
I have great faith in humanity that gets renewed every single day. There is no place in my life for hatred and bigotry. That probably makes me even more of a Commie in your eyes.
If I have come this far by holdin the cows tits, I think I will hold on to them just a bit longer. They have been quite good to me. You might want to try it.

[Blown 472]

Hope you see this coming ultra.
Ahem, WRONG!!!
All homeowner's insurance in Kansas, covers damage caused by wind.
High straight line winds from a thunderstorm (happen occasionally over 100MPH). 70 to 75 mph gusts are actually fairly comon.
Winds approaching 220MPH in one of our lovely Tornados. (the reccord was 301mph (+= 20mph) recorded by dopler radar in Moore Oklahoma (Ok City suburb) 3 May 1999 (anemometers don't live long enough).
Standard homeowner's/renter's insurance policies cover the losses/damages from both.
(Renter's does not cover the loss of the rental property, since it is NOT the insured's).
We can ALSO buy insurance against hail (specifically), but that is a farm-crop only item. Hail damage is covered under all other damage loss insurances (homeowner's and automotive comp).
Anything else you need to know mr. INSURANCE INVESTIGATOR? :confused:
How do you tune each cylinder???

[QuickJet]

If I have come this far by holdin the cows tits, I think I will hold on to them just a bit longer. They have been quite good to me. You might want to try it.
Does you wife know that you speak about her in this fashion. Are you actually offering for others to hold her tits? WTF???

[Old Texan]

Sorry CC it was OJ who lost his job to China, my mistake.
You ae correct, that I don't believe that all men are created equal.
So in your opinion FEMA is OK but the others, that you state you have specified are not. You admit to taking FEMA money, and with a plan, you overcame. I wonder how many have taken FEMA money and for some reason, didn't overcome. Based on this should FEMA not be available. I see very little difference with this and many other assistance programs. Some succeed and some don't.
Based on your next statement, with regard to the "old, poor, blind, crippled, etc." it should be quite obvious that all men aren't created equal. In a later comment you state that you have donated thousands and many hours to help others. Just curious how much of your donation went to assist the blind and crippled, you know, those who can't do for themselves and have no family to help. How dare those damn commies want to help these low lifes.
This country was founded on rugged individualism Please quote from the US Constitution anything that even resembles this claim. Your comments regarding big government communists is reality free so I'll just leave it be.
You are under the wrong impression if you believe that Churches, in this Country, are hurting for cash. This may be the case in Bentfork, but it's not the case in the city. Seems that there is plenty to donate even after paying taxes. Churches in this Country are big tax exempt business, plain and simple. Isn't this standard tithe 10% of one's income? Sounds like a church tax to me.
I have great faith in humanity that gets renewed every single day. There is no place in my life for hatred and bigotry. That probably makes me even more of a Commie in your eyes.
If I have come this far by holdin the cows tits, I think I will hold on to them just a bit longer. They have been quite good to me. You might want to try it.
Now that has to be one of the most self righteous posts I believe I've ever read. :confused: You certainly comphrehend CC's posts differently than others do, I will say that for ya Ultra.........:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Does you wife know that you speak about her in this fashion. Are you actually offering for others to hold her tits? WTF???
Definitely no career in comedy in your future. :D :D
Now that has to be one of the most self righteous posts I believe I've ever read. :confused: You certainly comphrehend CC's posts differently than others do, I will say that for ya Ultra.........:idea:
Other than the part about holding the cows tits, and not having time for hatred and bigotry, there wasn't much else in my post about me.
I guess big govt commie, cows tits and horns mean something different to folks in TN & TX.
Just curious Tex, how do you know how others comprehend CC's posts?

[Old Texan]

Definitely no career in comedy in your future. :D :D
Other than the part about holding the cows tits, and not having time for hatred and bigotry, there wasn't much else in my post about me.
I guess big govt commie, cows tits and horns mean something different to folks in TN & TX.
Just curious Tex, how do you know how others comprehend CC's posts?
I read their replies and how they view stiuations without reading something into what hey say half way through based on my perspective.
Statement-
CC: The problem with my line of thinking is that I've seen how Americans are the biggest givers of assistance on earth....and do so freely because it is the right thing to do not because some bleeding heart decides that it is a national tragedy to be old, poor, blind, crippled, etc and must be corrected by legislation. As if a piece of paper can make it right
Response-
U26: Based on your next statement, with regard to the "old, poor, blind, crippled, etc." it should be quite obvious that all men aren't created equal. In a later comment you state that you have donated thousands and many hours to help others. Just curious how much of your donation went to assist the blind and crippled, you know, those who can't do for themselves and have no family to help. How dare those damn commies want to help these low lifes.
I read it to mean there are ways and means in the US to care for those that really need it rather than forcing through additional legislation to cover a large portion of society that uses the system for lifetime entitlements. Both parties are guilty of making it far to easy to abuse a system set up for the truly needy.
CC states he pays a fair share both through taxes and voluntary works and doesn't need the government telling him how it "should" be done differently and on a broader basis. The "old, poor, blind, crippled, etc." people you describe for the most part are being cared for by existing programs intended for their needs. These are the real needy and the folks governmental assistance is set up for. He isn't looking down on anyone and doesn't insinuate anywhere these people are lowlifes.
It's a rather ambiguous presumption that anyone disagreeing with additonal legislation and taxes doesn't care nor help out voluntarily. And private donations and care should not be denigrated.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I read their replies and how they view stiuations without reading something into what hey say half way through based on my perspective.
Statement-
Response-
I read it to mean there are ways and means in the US to care for those that really need it rather than forcing through additional legislation to cover a large portion of society that uses the system for lifetime entitlements. Both parties are guilty of making it far to easy to abuse a system set up for the truly needy.
CC states he pays a fair share both through taxes and voluntary works and doesn't need the government telling him how it "should" be done differently and on a broader basis. The "old, poor, blind, crippled, etc." people you describe for the most part are being cared for by existing programs intended for their needs. These are the real needy and the folks governmental assistance is set up for. He isn't looking down on anyone and doesn't insinuate anywhere these people are lowlifes.
It's a rather ambiguous presumption that anyone disagreeing with additonal legislation and taxes doesn't care nor help out voluntarily. And private donations and care should not be denigrated.
This country was founded on rugged individualism. Somehow a bunch of big gov't communists thought it would help destroy our country by turning short term character building exercises into a permanent crutch and thereby create a gov't dependent class with voting rights. The traditional downfall of democratic gov't is voting oneself a check!
As I see it, the fundamental difference between Ultra and me is for the past 20 years he's been handlin' the cow's tits while I've been handlin' her horns...it do make a difference!
CC
Tex,
I read their replies and how they view stiuations without reading something into what hey say half way through based on my perspective.
Please point out other interpretations of CC's posts in this thread.
I have followed this thread from the beginning. CC's opening comment,
liberals are communists and dems are libs and therefore Democrats are commies through to his last comment about the cow tits, came from a place that I will never visit.
Perhaps you should read CC's comments more closely. He not referring to new social programs, or additional legislation, he is referring to existing programs.
I would never take issue with someone suggesting that enough is enough with regard to more legislation in this regard. I agree that we don't need any more. CC stated that Americans are overly taxed to the point of not having enough money to tithe or donate as led, and yet he has donated thousands.
Maybe this because this type of donation is not taxed.
You and I both know that we don't and have never had "commies" running this Country. It you want to associate yourself with this level of thinking, so be it.
Personally I find the following comment to be obnoxious:
because some bleeding heart decides that it is a national tragedy to be old, poor, blind, crippled, etc and must be corrected by legislation. As if a piece of paper can make it right.
Where does this comment imply additional legislation?
Just some sarcasm on my part with regard to those who want to assist the blind crippled, etc. who are obviously not commies and the blind, crippled, etc. who are obviously not low lifes.
There are some social programs in this Country that are supported, for good reason by Democrats and Republicans alike. As I have said throughout this thread, there is abuse of these programs that must be eliminated through better, (not more) management.
It's time for me to grab on to those cow tits again, you know us CA guys haven't learned to grab them Cow horns like you TN and TX folks :D :D
Let's talk later about something more worth while.

[Steve 1]

I found this somewhere:
You might be a Democrat...
1. If you believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding…
2. If you believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same 4th graders about sex…
3. If you believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than US nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese communists…
4. If you believe that there was no art before federal funding…
5. If you believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical, documented, changes in the earth's climate, and more affected by Yuppies driving SUVs…
6. If you believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural…
7. If you are against capital punishment but support abortion on demand...
8. If you believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity…
9. If you believe that hunters don't care about nature, but Loony activists who've never been outside of Seattle do…
10. If you believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it…
11. If you believe the military, not corrupt politicians, start wars…
12. If you believe that the NRA is bad, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution…
13. If you believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high…
14. If you believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, General Robert E. Lee or Thomas Edison…
15. If you believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides aren't, because the right people haven't been in charge…
16. If you believe Hillary Clinton is really a lady…
17. If you believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in charge…
18. If you believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and sex offender belongs in the White House…
19. If you believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites and bestiality should be constitutionally protected and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal…
20. If you believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese is somehow in the best interest of the United States…
21. IF You believe that anyone wanting to keep the products of their labor is selfish, though, it is not selfish to take other people's money away from them to pay for the programs that you want to fund.
22. IF You believe that the constitution is a living document that casts both an umbra and a penumbra.
23. IF You believe that you can make our co country stronger by breaking up its most successful corporations.
24. IF You believe that the death penalty is wrong but think that killing unborn children is merely a "choice".
25. IF You are sure the reason why socialism did not work in the Soviet Union was because they did not start out with enough wealth. Further, you believe that the US has enough wealth to support socialism.
26. IF You believe that discouraging wealth building and job creation through the means of a graduated income tax is "progressive".
27. IF At every opportunity you want to give men fish instead of teaching them to fish for themselves.
30. IF You believe that the phrase "it couldn't happen here" is enough to insure tyranny does not take root in the United States.
31. IF You believe that the bad consequences of peoples' life decisions should be born by all of society, especially the rich.
32. IF You believed Hillary about the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" ... and that it made Bill commit adultery in the Oval Office and use foreign objects to have sex with "that woman".
33. IF You believe that punishing criminals of color for their violent crimes is racist.
34. IF You somehow believe that the major media in this country does not have a liberal bent.
35. IF You have to believe at least 35% of what comes out of Al Gore's mouth.
36. IF You believe that government's duty to provide the national defense, one of its few constitutionally charged duties, is lower in priority than all of the un-constitutional wealth-transfer systems you can devise.
37. IF You must practice disinformation and hate under the name of progress. You strive to be an emotional being, devoid of logic and reason. You must not understand the true meaning of compassion.
38. IF You must believe that a lone speckled owl is worth more than 10,000 American's livelihood.
39. IF You must accept dead citizens voting in an election, so long as they do not cross party lines.
40. IF You believe that it is morally acceptable to disarm your neighbors, leaving them at the mercy of criminals, even though you will still rely on men with guns to protect you.
41. IF You not-so-secretly wish that people never become successful, insuring that their continued dependence on the welfare state keeps them voting the Democrat party line.
42. IF You believe that the bill of rights should act to limit the powers of government, except that the 2nd, 9th and 10th amendments have absolutely no meaning nor any power. Further, you ignore any part of the constitution that will slow down your form of creeping socialism.
43. IF That to give people a tax cut is to "spend" their money. About 111 times in the course of the three presidential debates, Gore said that "Under Gov. Bush's tax cut proposal, he would spend more money on tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 percent than all of the new spending that he proposes for education, health care, prescription drugs and national defense all combined."
44. IF People who believe that all of their money belongs to the government, except that portion that the governing class decides to "spend" on tax cuts, should vote for Gore. So, too, should those who believe that if the government undertakes huge new spending programs, taxes will not increase.
45. IF That you can trust a man who swears his abiding passion is to "fight" for the little guy even though, in 1997, out of an income of $197,729, Gore donated only $353 to charity, and who, in 2000, had to be publicly shamed before having the toilet and sink in his tenant's house repaired.
46. IF YOU BELIEVE That there is any such thing as a "lock box" in American political life -- presupposing that one administration and/or one congress can bind another.
47. If you believe That pharmaceutical companies must be strong-armed to forego profits in the name of lower prices for seniors, and that you can rely on the good faith of a man who casually asserts that "the big drug companies" are now "spending more money on advertising and promotion than they are on research and development." Actually, a Kaiser Family Foundation study released in July reveals that the drug companies spent between $5.8 and $8.3 billion for advertising in 1998, versus $21 billion for research and development.
48. If you believe That what this world needs, in the words of Al Gore's environmental manifesto "Earth in the Balance," is "to establish a coordinated global program to accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the internal combustion engine over, say, a 25 year period."
49. If you believe That it is possible to commit American troops to every trouble spot around the world while simultaneously starving the military for funds.
50. If you believe That the creation of new federal programs to provide universal preschool, expand Medicare, provide prescription drugs to all of America's elderly (Bush proposes to cover only the poor), provide universal health coverage for children, fund Technology for Tomorrow Challenge and scores of other proposed initiatives will neither increase the size of the federal government nor eat up the surplus.
51. If you believe That a man who routinely breaks even the rules of a debate format should be trusted when he assures us that throughout the campaign of 1996, he engaged in no illegal fund raising.
52. If you believe That President Clinton's policies, standing alone, have led to "instead of the biggest deficits in history, we now have the biggest surpluses. ... Instead of quadrupling our national debt, we've seen the creation of 19 million new jobs. Instead of a deep recession and high unemployment, America now has our strongest economy in the history of the United States."
53. If you believe Until a Republican Congress arm-wrestled him into accepting a balanced budget, President Clinton's policies would have created deficits into the indefinite future. As to the recession of 1990/1991, it was quite mild (not, as Gore always says, "the double dip recession," whatever that is, and the "worst recession since the Great Depression"). The recovery had begun before Clinton/Gore took office in January 1992.
54. If you believe That, once elected, N.E.A. Al would actually implement his proposal for testing new teachers.
55. If you believe That affirmative action does not mean quotas, merely attempts to provide opportunity where it has been lacking.
56. If you believe That Al and Tipper Gore have been consistent critics of Hollywood and the rock music industry, as the vice president boasted during the third debate. In fact, Gore dragged his wife to Hollywood in 1988 -- the year he invented the Willie Horton issue, no he really did -- and forced her to grovel before record company executives promising to cease her campaign for music ratings. He was running for president and wanted the industry's financial support.
57. If you believe That Bill Clinton was "one of our greatest presidents."
58. If you believe You're not sophisticated enough to realize that "liberty" and "socialism" are mutually exclusive concepts.
59.IF You believe that Europe (even with its faulty currency, high unemployment, and economic stifling tax rates) is an example if the successful socialism, but ignore China, India, and the former USSR which account for almost 1/2 of the earth's population.
60. If You support "choice", as long as it has nothing to do with where your kids go to school, owning a firearm, deciding where your retirement money goes, or what doctor you go to see.
61. If You believe that every vote counts, except those from Republican dominated counties and from the military.
62. If You believe that children are expensive, but no matter how many children poor people choose to produce the poor are always victims of society and not their own bad choices.
63. If You believe in the communist theory of "redistribution of wealth", but only if the government redistributes it.
64. If You don't give much to charity, after all, why should you have to give up necessities like cable TV, cell phones, electronic gadgets, eating out, and air conditioning when there are people who have even more than you do?
65. If You believe the Bill of Rights actually has an amendment declaring the "right to privacy".
66. If You believe that Social Security is not a risky pyramid scheme.
67. IF You believe oppression comes from business and prosperity comes from government.
68. If You believe that John Ashcroft is a horrible choice for a federal position because he is a religious man, but Joe LIEberman was a great choice for a federal position because he is a religious man.
69. If You don't understand the basics of "supply and demand".
70. If You believe that conservatives are racist, but quotas, social promotion, lower expectations, and set asides aren't.
71. If Your arguments for supporting abortion are religious in nature because you know you'd be blown away if you made it a scientific argument.
72. If You believe "workfare" is the same as slavery.
73. If you believe Self-esteem is more important than actually doing anything to earn it.
74. If You believe that Christians have no business being included in the umbrella of diversity.
75. If you believe that Even though most Americans choose to eat a poor diet and choose not to exercise, you feel it is still the taxpayer's responsibility to pay for their medical care.
76. If You believe Big Business is evil because it fills a demand the public is screaming for.
77. If You believe that the Bill Of Rights says "There is a separation of church and state" but not the actual line: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF".
78. If You believe that Santa decorations should be banned from public schools at Christmas due to religious issues, but don't believe witch decorations should be banned from public schools at Halloween even though Wicca is a federally recognized religion.
79. If you believe There was no art before federal funding.
80.IF You believe that drilling a piece of the enormous Alaskan preserve will be horrible for the environment, but hauling energy inefficient oil tankers from the Middle East (halfway across the planet) won't have any negative impacts on the environment.
81. If You believe that in a free society doctors should be servants of the state.
82. If You believe that anyone who agrees with you is open minded and believe that anyone who disagrees with you is closed minded.
83. If You believe that the only reason communism hasn't worked is because the right people haven't been in charge yet.
84. If You feel that anyone who beats you in an intellectual argument is a bigot.
85. At the most basic level, the liberal is an adolescent forever in search of a world without moral consequence.
86. If you believe Freedom from moral consequence can only be secured by a collectivist, totalitarian state.
87. If you believe The liberal religion reveres the twin gods of genitals and government, and is overseen by a priesthood of psychologists.
88. If you believe "Freedom" to the liberal is strictly freedom of the genitals.
89. If you believe All non-sexual individual freedoms are despised by the liberal because they demand moral responsibility.
90. If you believe The fundamental power struggle of the liberal is individual v. collective. The individual must be relieved of all power in favor of the collective.
91. If you believe Individualism demands moral responsibility. Collectivism hopes to eliminate the need for moral responsibility.
92. If you believe he U.S. Constitution - specifically the individualistic Bill of Rights - is the enemy of the liberal.
93. If you believe The liberal despises the United States because it is the premier guarantor and promoter of individualism in the world.
94. If you believe All institutions and concerns - schools, environment, courts, etc. - serve no relevant purpose other than the promotion of collectivism.
95. If you believe Abortion is necessary to guarantee genital freedom and eliminate moral consequence.
96. If you believe The basis of psychology is the elimination of moral responsibility.
97. If you believe The liberal must create an atmosphere of crisis and fear to justify collectivist oppression.
98. If you believe Any religious person who believes or promotes moral consequence is the enemy of the liberal and must be oppressed.
99. If you believe Despite decades of spectacular failure, the liberal clings to the collectivist dream because it is far more than a theory of government. It is a religion.
100. If you believe The liberal seeks to dominate any institution which can weaken or destroy individual parental rights - public schools, child abuse agencies, pediatric associations, etc..
101. If you believe The liberal applauds the imprisoning of home schooling parents who dare to raise their children outside the control of collectivist public schools.
102. If you believe Private ownership of guns is the single greatest symbol of individual power, and therefore despised.
103. If you believe All individual freedoms demand the responsible behaviour of the individual, and therefore demand a moral code. Liberals despise freedom because they despise morality.
104. If you believe The liberal loves Bill Clinton because of who he is, not in spite of who he is.
105. If you believe The liberal despises national sovereignty which protects individual freedoms.
106. If you believe The liberal promotes international governments (UN, EU, etc.) which seek to destroy individualism protected by sovereign states.
107. If you believe The liberal fears any hint of individualism in any part of the world, and is obsessed with the centralized control of all human activity and thought.
108. If you believe "Multi-culturalism" is the code world for a single, oppressive, collectivist culture.
109. If you believe Liberals speak often of tolerance, but only tolerate liberals.
110. If you believe The liberal seeks to criminalize any speech which promotes morality or individualism as "hate speech".
111. Environmentalists lie as a matter of course.
112. The liberal's only method of debate is to insult and discredit anyone who dares to disagree.
113. When possible, liberals opress anyone who questions their beliefs.
114. Liberals despise all innocence - especially the innocence of a child.
115. Liberals seek the sexualization of children and the normalization of pedophilia, all in the pursuit of genital freedom.
116. In the liberal mind, your freedom is their oppression.
117. Private property and individual wealth is integral to individualism, and the enemy of the liberal.
118. The liberal hates you.
119. The liberal seeks to replace a moral world view with an emotional world
view.
120. The liberal typically chooses a career which produces nothing of value - lawyer, bureaucrat, "activist", etc. - and uses government to extract the wealth of others.
121. Liberal programs enrich liberals and do little to help the poor.
122. The liberal despises masculinity as a symbol of individual power.
123. Feminists groups are about lesbianism and socialism, not equal rights for women.
124. Liberals are perfectly willing to destroy you financially, remove your children, and imprison you for what you believe.
125. Liberals fear technology and change - because neither can be centrally controlled.
126. Liberals are not obsessed with sex, but with promiscuity. Promiscuity is the dominate theme of the liberal media culture.
127. Liberals despise the suburbs as a manifestation of individual prosperity, private property ownership, and the family.
128. Liberals despise marriage and family because they are institutions which frown on promiscuity.
129. Liberals despise the automobile as a symbol of individual freedom and power.
130. Liberals seek to control public schools, and force all children into them, in order to foster promiscuity and collectivist ideology in children.
131. Other diseases kill millions more, but liberals are obsessed with Aids because it is a moral consequence of promiscuity.
132. Liberals are more committed than conservatives because their politics is also their religion.
133. Liberal activities are all about ego - to demonstrate "I care more than you do" without really helping anyone.
134. Whenever a liberal expresses concern "for the children", they are using and targeting children to expand promiscuity, collectivism, and their own pocketbooks and egos.
135. Because collectivist politics is their only morality, liberals have no problem with deceit, oppression, or violence in their pursuit of collectivism.
136. Liberals are elitists who exempt themselves from the oppressive rules they impose on the general population.
137. Liberals howl if a transvestite or convicted felon is even slightly offended, but openly bash Christians.
138. Liberals dream of a return to a centralized, 1940's urban environment. We all ride the bus from a small, dirty, big city apartment to an 8-5 union job.
139. Liberals believe that wealth is static - anyone who makes money must be stealing it from someone else.
140. Liberals claim to be against violence, but makes excuses for liberals like Castro who torture political dissidents.
141. Liberals have enormous compassion for criminal predators, but little for the victims.
142. Animal Rights activists despise humanity.
143. Liberals believe that passing religious values to children is a form of child abuse.
144. Liberals use moralistic tones and catch-phrases like "social justice", but their only moral is the accumulation of power
145. Liberals ideologies tend inevitably towards world-wide totalitarianism.
146. Liberals are never satisfied with the power they have gained over the lives of individuals - they must control every thought and detail of human activity.
147. In the liberal world, all problems stem from individualism, and all solutions are collective.
148. Liberals are humorless bores.
149. If You believe that militia groups are more of a threat to your safety than inner-city gangs.
150. If You believe that if all guns were banned, crime would disappear.
151. If You believe that criminals will flock to gun buy back programs to turn in their guns.
152. If You believe that if the government funded one less military helicopter that thousands of starving children would be fed.
153. If You believe that the government should have more control over the lives of people.
154. If You believe that Pat Schroeder, Diane Feinstein, Charles Schumer, Howard Metzenbaum, Arlen Spector etc.etc. are actually working for your best interests.
155. If You see nothing wrong with tens of thousands of communist bloc tanks and special purpose military vehicles being stationed in our country. (If you even know they are there)
156. If You believe that Socialism/Communism can work and has just gotten some bad publicity, or hasn't been properly implemented, or hasn't been given a real chance, or ...
157. If You believe that the Bible is racist, sexist and homophobic.
158. If You believe that "it takes a village to raise a child".
159. If You believe that the members of Randy Weaver's family were dangerous criminals with an arsenal.
160. If You believe that the mainstream media is too conservative.
161. If You believe that most of our health care problems would be solved if the government would increase taxes and take over the health care industry.
162. If You would vote for Hillary Clinton.
163. If You believe that all hell would break loose if it were not for U.N. "Peacekeepers".
164. If You don't think it's "fair" for some people to have bigger houses than others.
165. If You believe that law enforcement should be federalized, and should forcibly enter homes and confiscate guns.
166. If You believe that Christianity is harmful, but you're completely open-minded to allowing your children to be exposed to Buddhism, Taoism, witchcraft, etc..
167. If You believe that the government has been honest with us concerning POW's and MIA's.
168. If You believe that the government has been honest with us concerning Gulf War Illness. \
169. If You believe that the President and his wife are telling the truth about Whitewater, Travelgate, Vincent Foster's files, the FBI files, etc. etc.
170. If You want to outlaw tobacco, but legalize marijuana.
171. If You believe that adult white males are racist, sexist and homophobic.
172. If You believe that it is impossible for a black person to be a racist.
173. If You believe that it is impossible for a woman to be a sexist.
174. If You believe that television talk shows make meaningful and important contributions to society.
175. If You believe that everything will work out if we just think positively.
176. If You believe that it's the government who grants us our rights.
177. If You believe that a public school "education" is superior to that of one who was home schooled.
178. If You believe the Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force had to incinerate the children at the Branch Davidian Church " in order to save them".
179. If You believe you can survive an encounter in your home with an armed attacker by dialing 911.
180. If You believe that handing out condoms to school children will decrease pregnancies.
181. If You believe that a Federal Reserve Note is lawful "money".
182. If You believe all that you see on the television news.
183. If You believe that Americans have always paid income taxes, and you see nothing wrong with the graduated income tax being one of the ten steps to destroy a free country, as outlined in the Communist Manifesto.
184. If You believe that there is too much freedom and that we should surrender some of our rights so that the government can make it more "safe" for us.
185. If You don't view people as individuals, but rather as members of a group.
186. If You equate patriotism with terrorism.
187. If You Believe that the First Amendment guarantees freedom from religion.
188. If You believe that minorities can't succeed on their own, and must have "help".
189. If You believe that Jane Fonda has contributed more towards world peace than Pee-Wee Herman.
190. If You believe that 2+2=4, or 5, or 7, as long as the child’s feelings are not hurt.
191. If You believe that the United States policy to have no Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Defense whatsoever helps to keep your children safe.
192. If You find it acceptable for an avowed communist and former head of the Soviet Union to be in charge of supervising the disarming of America's defensive capabilities.
193. If You believe That the failure of any government program is proof it needs funding;
194. If you believe That Bill Gates symbolizes what is wrong with America;
195. If You believe That the Communist Chinese expected nothing in return for their contributions to the 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign;
196. If You believe That the Ten Commandments are judgmental and, consequently, Dangerous for our children to learn in school;
197. If You believe That, in the spirit of inclusion, our armed forces should welcome Gay soldiers into their shower stalls;
198. If You believe That the problem of gun violence will be solved as soon as law-abiding citizens are forced to disarm;
199. If You believe That I prove my compassion and generosity when I support tax Increases on anyone who is richer than I;
200. If You believe That Republicans are evil, except Republican union members whose Wages are confiscated for the purpose of funding democratic campaigns;
201. If You believe That Bill Clinton was correct when he vetoed welfare reform, correct When he vetoed it again and correct when he proudly signed it into law;
202. If You believe That Bob Jones is a religious bigot with dangerous ideas when his Faith dictates white Christians should marry only white Christians but that Joe Lieberman is a good man with deeply held religious principles when His faith dictates orthodox Jews should marry only orthodox Jews;
203. If You believe That a thousand FBI files on prominent Republicans arrived at the White House as a result of an innocent bureaucratic snafu under the watch Of a former bar bouncer who became head of White House security and no one knows who hired him;
204. If You believe That Joe Camel brainwashed kids into smoking cigarettes but that Hollywood's sex and violence do not influence them;
205. If You believe That we support more gun laws and fewer convictions;
206. If You believe That media reports on the homeless are newsworthy unless a Democrat Is in the White House;
207. If You believe That the timing of the American bombing of a Sudanese pharmaceutical Plant on the day of Monica Lewinsky's testimony was purely coincidental;
208. If You believe That everyone deserves equal rights, except white males;
209. If You believe That we should march in favor of partial birth abortions and against The execution of child murderers;
210. If You believe That we support the Constitution's unwritten right to privacy but Not its written right to bear arms;
211. If You believe That taxpayer dollars should never fund religious art except for art That denigrates Christianity;
212. If You believe That only a risky Republican scheme would propose changes for high Schools that graduate students who can't read their diplomas;
213. If You believe That Al Gore invented the Internet and Hillary Clinton is a Brilliant cattle futures speculator;
214. If You believe That every government program is essential and under funded;
215. If You believe That minorities deserve high positions in government except when They are conservative;
216. If You believe That Bill Clinton has never forced himself upon a woman unless there Is DNA evidence to prove it;
217. If You believe That we don't need to worry about records being set for the trade deficit, personal bankruptcies and minorities in prison until a Republican is in the White House;
218. If You believe That, for every Clinton scandal, Republicans were guilty of "rushing To judgment" prior to proving wrongdoing and guilty of "dredging up old news" after proof was established;
219. If You believe That thou shall not judge, unless it is for the purpose of exposing conservative white males as angry, gun-toting rednecks and conservative blacks as back-stabbing charlatans;
220. If You believe That the administration created our nation's economic prosperity Even if we can't name the Clinton-Gore proposals that caused it;
221. If You believe That big companies, which succeed in a free market by routinely Offering the best product or service at the lowest price, shouldn't be trusted, and that big government, which can confiscate and redistribute its citizen's wealth and imprison them if they don't cooperate, should be trusted implicitly;
222. If You believe That Al Gore discovered Love Canal and was the hero of "Love Story";
223. If You believe That we have no reason to suspect espionage occurred when hard Drives containing our most valuable nuclear secrets were missing from the Los Alamos laboratory;
224. If You believe That we should be outraged by the partial birth abortion of any Animal except a human;
225. If You believe That the failure of 22,000 gun laws to prevent gun violence is proof That more gun laws are needed;
226. If You believe That Clarence Thomas is unfit for office but Bill Clinton is not;
227. If You believe That if our children aren't taught sex in school, they'll never find Out about it;
228. If You believe That anyone who supports school vouchers, the strategic defense initiative, parental notification for abortion and privatization of social security is a right-wing kook, unless his name is Joe Lieberman;
229. If You believe That George W. Bush's degrees from Harvard and Yale do not change The fact that he is an idiot, but Al Gore's failing out of Vanderbilt is no reflection on his mentality;
230. If You believe That the only reason Socialism has never succeeded is because the Wrong people have been in charge;
231. If You believe And so, let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend And foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of donkeys

[Steve 1]

179. If You believe you can survive an encounter in your home with an armed attacker by dialing 911.

[Blown 472]

I found this somewhere:
You might be a Democrat...
1. If you believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding…
2. If you believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same 4th graders about sex…
3. If you believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than US nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese communists…
4. If you believe that there was no art before federal funding…
5. If you believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical, documented, changes in the earth's climate, and more affected by Yuppies driving SUVs…
6. If you believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural…
7. If you are against capital punishment but support abortion on demand...
8. If you believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity…
9. If you believe that hunters don't care about nature, but Loony activists who've never been outside of Seattle do…
10. If you believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it…
11. If you believe the military, not corrupt politicians, start wars…
12. If you believe that the NRA is bad, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution…
13. If you believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high…
14. If you believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, General Robert E. Lee or Thomas Edison…
15. If you believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides aren't, because the right people haven't been in charge…
16. If you believe Hillary Clinton is really a lady…
17. If you believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in charge…
18. If you believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and sex offender belongs in the White House…
19. If you believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites and bestiality should be constitutionally protected and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal…
20. If you believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese is somehow in the best interest of the United States…
21. IF You believe that anyone wanting to keep the products of their labor is selfish, though, it is not selfish to take other people's money away from them to pay for the programs that you want to fund.
22. IF You believe that the constitution is a living document that casts both an umbra and a penumbra.
23. IF You believe that you can make our co country stronger by breaking up its most successful corporations.
24. IF You believe that the death penalty is wrong but think that killing unborn children is merely a "choice".
25. IF You are sure the reason why socialism did not work in the Soviet Union was because they did not start out with enough wealth. Further, you believe that the US has enough wealth to support socialism.
26. IF You believe that discouraging wealth building and job creation through the means of a graduated income tax is "progressive".
27. IF At every opportunity you want to give men fish instead of teaching them to fish for themselves.
30. IF You believe that the phrase "it couldn't happen here" is enough to insure tyranny does not take root in the United States.
31. IF You believe that the bad consequences of peoples' life decisions should be born by all of society, especially the rich.
32. IF You believed Hillary about the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" ... and that it made Bill commit adultery in the Oval Office and use foreign objects to have sex with "that woman".
33. IF You believe that punishing criminals of color for their violent crimes is racist.
34. IF You somehow believe that the major media in this country does not have a liberal bent.
35. IF You have to believe at least 35% of what comes out of Al Gore's mouth.
36. IF You believe that government's duty to provide the national defense, one of its few constitutionally charged duties, is lower in priority than all of the un-constitutional wealth-transfer systems you can devise.
37. IF You must practice disinformation and hate under the name of progress. You strive to be an emotional being, devoid of logic and reason. You must not understand the true meaning of compassion.
38. IF You must believe that a lone speckled owl is worth more than 10,000 American's livelihood.
39. IF You must accept dead citizens voting in an election, so long as they do not cross party lines.
40. IF You believe that it is morally acceptable to disarm your neighbors, leaving them at the mercy of criminals, even though you will still rely on men with guns to protect you.
41. IF You not-so-secretly wish that people never become successful, insuring that their continued dependence on the welfare state keeps them voting the Democrat party line.
42. IF You believe that the bill of rights should act to limit the powers of government, except that the 2nd, 9th and 10th amendments have absolutely no meaning nor any power. Further, you ignore any part of the constitution that will slow down your form of creeping socialism.
43. IF That to give people a tax cut is to "spend" their money. About 111 times in the course of the three presidential debates, Gore said that "Under Gov. Bush's tax cut proposal, he would spend more money on tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 percent than all of the new spending that he proposes for education, health care, prescription drugs and national defense all combined."
44. IF People who believe that all of their money belongs to the government, except that portion that the governing class decides to "spend" on tax cuts, should vote for Gore. So, too, should those who believe that if the government undertakes huge new spending programs, taxes will not increase.
45. IF That you can trust a man who swears his abiding passion is to "fight" for the little guy even though, in 1997, out of an income of $197,729, Gore donated only $353 to charity, and who, in 2000, had to be publicly shamed before having the toilet and sink in his tenant's house repaired.
46. IF YOU BELIEVE That there is any such thing as a "lock box" in American political life -- presupposing that one administration and/or one congress can bind another.
47. If you believe That pharmaceutical companies must be strong-armed to forego profits in the name of lower prices for seniors, and that you can rely on the good faith of a man who casually asserts that "the big drug companies" are now "spending more money on advertising and promotion than they are on research and development." Actually, a Kaiser Family Foundation study released in July reveals that the drug companies spent between $5.8 and $8.3 billion for advertising in 1998, versus $21 billion for research and development.
48. If you believe That what this world needs, in the words of Al Gore's environmental manifesto "Earth in the Balance," is "to establish a coordinated global program to accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the internal combustion engine over, say, a 25 year period."
49. If you believe That it is possible to commit American troops to every trouble spot around the world while simultaneously starving the military for funds.
50. If you believe That the creation of new federal programs to provide universal preschool, expand Medicare, provide prescription drugs to all of America's elderly (Bush proposes to cover only the poor), provide universal health coverage for children, fund Technology for Tomorrow Challenge and scores of other proposed initiatives will neither increase the size of the federal government nor eat up the surplus.
51. If you believe That a man who routinely breaks even the rules of a debate format should be trusted when he assures us that throughout the campaign of 1996, he engaged in no illegal fund raising.
52. If you believe That President Clinton's policies, standing alone, have led to "instead of the biggest deficits in history, we now have the biggest surpluses. ... Instead of quadrupling our national debt, we've seen the creation of 19 million new jobs. Instead of a deep recession and high unemployment, America now has our strongest economy in the history of the United States."
53. If you believe Until a Republican Congress arm-wrestled him into accepting a balanced budget, President Clinton's policies would have created deficits into the indefinite future. As to the recession of 1990/1991, it was quite mild (not, as Gore always says, "the double dip recession," whatever that is, and the "worst recession since the Great Depression"). The recovery had begun before Clinton/Gore took office in January 1992.
54. If you believe That, once elected, N.E.A. Al would actually implement his proposal for testing new teachers.
55. If you believe That affirmative action does not mean quotas, merely attempts to provide opportunity where it has been lacking.
56. If you believe That Al and Tipper Gore have been consistent critics of Hollywood and the rock music industry, as the vice president boasted during the third debate. In fact, Gore dragged his wife to Hollywood in 1988 -- the year he invented the Willie Horton issue, no he really did -- and forced her to grovel before record company executives promising to cease her campaign for music ratings. He was running for president and wanted the industry's financial support.
57. If you believe That Bill Clinton was "one of our greatest presidents."
58. If you believe You're not sophisticated enough to realize that "liberty" and "socialism" are mutually exclusive concepts.
59.IF You believe that Europe (even with its faulty currency, high unemployment, and economic stifling tax rates) is an example if the successful socialism, but ignore China, India, and the former USSR which account for almost 1/2 of the earth's population.
60. If You support "choice", as long as it has nothing to do with where your kids go to school, owning a firearm, deciding where your retirement money goes, or what doctor you go to see.
61. If You believe that every vote counts, except those from Republican dominated counties and from the military.
62. If You believe that children are expensive, but no matter how many children poor people choose to produce the poor are always victims of society and not their own bad choices.
63. If You believe in the communist theory of "redistribution of wealth", but only if the government redistributes it.
64. If You don't give much to charity, after all, why should you have to give up necessities like cable TV, cell phones, electronic gadgets, eating out, and air conditioning when there are people who have even more than you do?
65. If You believe the Bill of Rights actually has an amendment declaring the "right to privacy".
66. If You believe that Social Security is not a risky pyramid scheme.
67. IF You believe oppression comes from business and prosperity comes from government.
68. If You believe that John Ashcroft is a horrible choice for a federal position because he is a religious man, but Joe LIEberman was a great choice for a federal position because he is a religious man.
69. If You don't understand the basics of "supply and demand".
70. If You believe that conservatives are racist, but quotas, social promotion, lower expectations, and set asides aren't.
71. If Your arguments for supporting abortion are religious in nature because you know you'd be blown away if you made it a scientific argument.
72. If You believe "workfare" is the same as slavery.
73. If you believe Self-esteem is more important than actually doing anything to earn it.
74. If You believe that Christians have no business being included in the umbrella of diversity.
75. If you believe that Even though most Americans choose to eat a poor diet and choose not to exercise, you feel it is still the taxpayer's responsibility to pay for their medical care.
76. If You believe Big Business is evil because it fills a demand the public is screaming for.
77. If You believe that the Bill Of Rights says "There is a separation of church and state" but not the actual line: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF".
78. If You believe that Santa decorations should be banned from public schools at Christmas due to religious issues, but don't believe witch decorations should be banned from public schools at Halloween even though Wicca is a federally recognized religion.
79. If you believe There was no art before federal funding.
80.IF You believe that drilling a piece of the enormous Alaskan preserve will be horrible for the environment, but hauling energy inefficient oil tankers from the Middle East (halfway across the planet) won't have any negative impacts on the environment.
81. If You believe that in a free society doctors should be servants of the state.
82. If You believe that anyone who agrees with you is open minded and believe that anyone who disagrees with you is closed minded.
83. If You believe that the only reason communism hasn't worked is because the right people haven't been in charge yet.
84. If You feel that anyone who beats you in an intellectual argument is a bigot.
85. At the most basic level, the liberal is an adolescent forever in search of a world without moral consequence.
86. If you believe Freedom from moral consequence can only be secured by a collectivist, totalitarian state.
87. If you believe The liberal religion reveres the twin gods of genitals and government, and is overseen by a priesthood of psychologists.
88. If you believe "Freedom" to the liberal is strictly freedom of the genitals.
89. If you believe All non-sexual individual freedoms are despised by the liberal because they demand moral responsibility.
90. If you believe The fundamental power struggle of the liberal is individual v. collective. The individual must be relieved of all power in favor of the collective.
91. If you believe Individualism demands moral responsibility. Collectivism hopes to eliminate the need for moral responsibility.
92. If you believe he U.S. Constitution - specifically the individualistic Bill of Rights - is the enemy of the liberal.
93. If you believe The liberal despises the United States because it is the premier guarantor and promoter of individualism in the world.
94. If you believe All institutions and concerns - schools, environment, courts, etc. - serve no relevant purpose other than the promotion of collectivism.
95. If you believe Abortion is necessary to guarantee genital freedom and eliminate moral consequence.
96. If you believe The basis of psychology is the elimination of moral responsibility.
97. If you believe The liberal must create an atmosphere of crisis and fear to justify collectivist oppression.
98. If you believe Any religious person who believes or promotes moral consequence is the enemy of the liberal and must be oppressed.
99. If you believe Despite decades of spectacular failure, the liberal clings to the collectivist dream because it is far more than a theory of government. It is a religion.
100. If you believe The liberal seeks to dominate any institution which can weaken or destroy individual parental rights - public schools, child abuse agencies, pediatric associations, etc..
101. If you believe The liberal applauds the imprisoning of home schooling parents who dare to raise their children outside the control of collectivist public schools.
102. If you believe Private ownership of guns is the single greatest symbol of individual power, and therefore despised.
103. If you believe All individual freedoms demand the responsible behaviour of the individual, and therefore demand a moral code. Liberals despise freedom because they despise morality.
104. If you believe The liberal loves Bill Clinton because of who he is, not in spite of who he is.
105. If you believe The liberal despises national sovereignty which protects individual freedoms.
106. If you believe The liberal promotes international governments (UN, EU, etc.) which seek to destroy individualism protected by sovereign states.
107. If you believe The liberal fears any hint of individualism in any part of the world, and is obsessed with the centralized control of all human activity and thought.
108. If you believe "Multi-culturalism" is the code world for a single, oppressive, collectivist culture.
109. If you believe Liberals speak often of tolerance, but only tolerate liberals.
110. If you believe The liberal seeks to criminalize any speech which promotes morality or individualism as "hate speech".
111. Environmentalists lie as a matter of course.
112. The liberal's only method of debate is to insult and discredit anyone who dares to disagree.
113. When possible, liberals opress anyone who questions their beliefs.
114. Liberals despise all innocence - especially the innocence of a child.
115. Liberals seek the sexualization of children and the normalization of pedophilia, all in the pursuit of genital freedom.
116. In the liberal mind, your freedom is their oppression.
117. Private property and individual wealth is integral to individualism, and the enemy of the liberal.
118. The liberal hates you.
119. The liberal seeks to replace a moral world view with an emotional world
view.
120. The liberal typically chooses a career which produces nothing of value - lawyer, bureaucrat, "activist", etc. - and uses government to extract the wealth of others.
121. Liberal programs enrich liberals and do little to help the poor.
122. The liberal despises masculinity as a symbol of individual power.
123. Feminists groups are about lesbianism and socialism, not equal rights for women.
124. Liberals are perfectly willing to destroy you financially, remove your children, and imprison you for what you believe.
125. Liberals fear technology and change - because neither can be centrally controlled.
126. Liberals are not obsessed with sex, but with promiscuity. Promiscuity is the dominate theme of the liberal media culture.
127. Liberals despise the suburbs as a manifestation of individual prosperity, private property ownership, and the family.
128. Liberals despise marriage and family because they are institutions which frown on promiscuity.
129. Liberals despise the automobile as a symbol of individual freedom and power.
130. Liberals seek to control public schools, and force all children into them, in order to foster promiscuity and collectivist ideology in children.
131. Other diseases kill millions more, but liberals are obsessed with Aids because it is a moral consequence of promiscuity.
132. Liberals are more committed than conservatives because their politics is also their religion.
133. Liberal activities are all about ego - to demonstrate "I care more than you do" without really helping anyone.
134. Whenever a liberal expresses concern "for the children", they are using and targeting children to expand promiscuity, collectivism, and their own pocketbooks and egos.
135. Because collectivist politics is their only morality, liberals have no problem with deceit, oppression, or violence in their pursuit of collectivism.
136. Liberals are elitists who exempt themselves from the oppressive rules they impose on the general population.
137. Liberals howl if a transvestite or convicted felon is even slightly offended, but openly bash Christians.
138. Liberals dream of a return to a centralized, 1940's urban environment. We all ride the bus from a small, dirty, big city apartment to an 8-5 union job.
139. Liberals believe that wealth is static - anyone who makes money must be stealing it from someone else.
140. Liberals claim to be against violence, but makes excuses for liberals like Castro who torture political dissidents.
141. Liberals have enormous compassion for criminal predators, but little for the victims.
142. Animal Rights activists despise humanity.
143. Liberals believe that passing religious values to children is a form of child abuse.
144. Liberals use moralistic tones and catch-phrases like "social justice", but their only moral is the accumulation of power
145. Liberals ideologies tend inevitably towards world-wide totalitarianism.
146. Liberals are never satisfied with the power they have gained over the lives of individuals - they must control every thought and detail of human activity.
147. In the liberal world, all problems stem from individualism, and all solutions are collective.
148. Liberals are humorless bores.
149. If You believe that militia groups are more of a threat to your safety than inner-city gangs.
150. If You believe that if all guns were banned, crime would disappear.
151. If You believe that criminals will flock to gun buy back programs to turn in their guns.
152. If You believe that if the government funded one less military helicopter that thousands of starving children would be fed.
153. If You believe that the government should have more control over the lives of people.
154. If You believe that Pat Schroeder, Diane Feinstein, Charles Schumer, Howard Metzenbaum, Arlen Spector etc.etc. are actually working for your best interests.
155. If You see nothing wrong with tens of thousands of communist bloc tanks and special purpose military vehicles being stationed in our country. (If you even know they are there)
156. If You believe that Socialism/Communism can work and has just gotten some bad publicity, or hasn't been properly implemented, or hasn't been given a real chance, or ...
157. If You believe that the Bible is racist, sexist and homophobic.
158. If You believe that "it takes a village to raise a child".
159. If You believe that the members of Randy Weaver's family were dangerous criminals with an arsenal.
160. If You believe that the mainstream media is too conservative.
161. If You believe that most of our health care problems would be solved if the government would increase taxes and take over the health care industry.
162. If You would vote for Hillary Clinton.
163. If You believe that all hell would break loose if it were not for U.N. "Peacekeepers".
164. If You don't think it's "fair" for some people to have bigger houses than others.
165. If You believe that law enforcement should be federalized, and should forcibly enter homes and confiscate guns.
166. If You believe that Christianity is harmful, but you're completely open-minded to allowing your children to be exposed to Buddhism, Taoism, witchcraft, etc..
167. If You believe that the government has been honest with us concerning POW's and MIA's.
168. If You believe that the government has been honest with us concerning Gulf War Illness. \
169. If You believe that the President and his wife are telling the truth about Whitewater, Travelgate, Vincent Foster's files, the FBI files, etc. etc.
170. If You want to outlaw tobacco, but legalize marijuana.
171. If You believe that adult white males are racist, sexist and homophobic.
172. If You believe that it is impossible for a black person to be a racist.
173. If You believe that it is impossible for a woman to be a sexist.
174. If You believe that television talk shows make meaningful and important contributions to society.
175. If You believe that everything will work out if we just think positively.
176. If You believe that it's the government who grants us our rights.
177. If You believe that a public school "education" is superior to that of one who was home schooled.
178. If You believe the Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force had to incinerate the children at the Branch Davidian Church " in order to save them".
179. If You believe you can survive an encounter in your home with an armed attacker by dialing 911.
180. If You believe that handing out condoms to school children will decrease pregnancies.
181. If You believe that a Federal Reserve Note is lawful "money".
182. If You believe all that you see on the television news.
183. If You believe that Americans have always paid income taxes, and you see nothing wrong with the graduated income tax being one of the ten steps to destroy a free country, as outlined in the Communist Manifesto.
184. If You believe that there is too much freedom and that we should surrender some of our rights so that the government can make it more "safe" for us.
185. If You don't view people as individuals, but rather as members of a group.
186. If You equate patriotism with terrorism.
187. If You Believe that the First Amendment guarantees freedom from religion.
188. If You believe that minorities can't succeed on their own, and must have "help".
189. If You believe that Jane Fonda has contributed more towards world peace than Pee-Wee Herman.
190. If You believe that 2+2=4, or 5, or 7, as long as the child’s feelings are not hurt.
191. If You believe that the United States policy to have no Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Defense whatsoever helps to keep your children safe.
192. If You find it acceptable for an avowed communist and former head of the Soviet Union to be in charge of supervising the disarming of America's defensive capabilities.
193. If You believe That the failure of any government program is proof it needs funding;
194. If you believe That Bill Gates symbolizes what is wrong with America;
195. If You believe That the Communist Chinese expected nothing in return for their contributions to the 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign;
196. If You believe That the Ten Commandments are judgmental and, consequently, Dangerous for our children to learn in school;
197. If You believe That, in the spirit of inclusion, our armed forces should welcome Gay soldiers into their shower stalls;
198. If You believe That the problem of gun violence will be solved as soon as law-abiding citizens are forced to disarm;
199. If You believe That I prove my compassion and generosity when I support tax Increases on anyone who is richer than I;
200. If You believe That Republicans are evil, except Republican union members whose Wages are confiscated for the purpose of funding democratic campaigns;
201. If You believe That Bill Clinton was correct when he vetoed welfare reform, correct When he vetoed it again and correct when he proudly signed it into law;
202. If You believe That Bob Jones is a religious bigot with dangerous ideas when his Faith dictates white Christians should marry only white Christians but that Joe Lieberman is a good man with deeply held religious principles when His faith dictates orthodox Jews should marry only orthodox Jews;
203. If You believe That a thousand FBI files on prominent Republicans arrived at the White House as a result of an innocent bureaucratic snafu under the watch Of a former bar bouncer who became head of White House security and no one knows who hired him;
204. If You believe That Joe Camel brainwashed kids into smoking cigarettes but that Hollywood's sex and violence do not influence them;
205. If You believe That we support more gun laws and fewer convictions;
206. If You believe That media reports on the homeless are newsworthy unless a Democrat Is in the White House;
207. If You believe That the timing of the American bombing of a Sudanese pharmaceutical Plant on the day of Monica Lewinsky's testimony was purely coincidental;
208. If You believe That everyone deserves equal rights, except white males;
209. If You believe That we should march in favor of partial birth abortions and against The execution of child murderers;
210. If You believe That we support the Constitution's unwritten right to privacy but Not its written right to bear arms;
211. If You believe That taxpayer dollars should never fund religious art except for art That denigrates Christianity;
212. If You believe That only a risky Republican scheme would propose changes for high Schools that graduate students who can't read their diplomas;
213. If You believe That Al Gore invented the Internet and Hillary Clinton is a Brilliant cattle futures speculator;
214. If You believe That every government program is essential and under funded;
215. If You believe That minorities deserve high positions in government except when They are conservative;
216. If You believe That Bill Clinton has never forced himself upon a woman unless there Is DNA evidence to prove it;
217. If You believe That we don't need to worry about records being set for the trade deficit, personal bankruptcies and minorities in prison until a Republican is in the White House;
218. If You believe That, for every Clinton scandal, Republicans were guilty of "rushing To judgment" prior to proving wrongdoing and guilty of "dredging up old news" after proof was established;
219. If You believe That thou shall not judge, unless it is for the purpose of exposing conservative white males as angry, gun-toting rednecks and conservative blacks as back-stabbing charlatans;
220. If You believe That the administration created our nation's economic prosperity Even if we can't name the Clinton-Gore proposals that caused it;
221. If You believe That big companies, which succeed in a free market by routinely Offering the best product or service at the lowest price, shouldn't be trusted, and that big government, which can confiscate and redistribute its citizen's wealth and imprison them if they don't cooperate, should be trusted implicitly;
222. If You believe That Al Gore discovered Love Canal and was the hero of "Love Story";
223. If You believe That we have no reason to suspect espionage occurred when hard Drives containing our most valuable nuclear secrets were missing from the Los Alamos laboratory;
224. If You believe That we should be outraged by the partial birth abortion of any Animal except a human;
225. If You believe That the failure of 22,000 gun laws to prevent gun violence is proof That more gun laws are needed;
226. If You believe That Clarence Thomas is unfit for office but Bill Clinton is not;
227. If You believe That if our children aren't taught sex in school, they'll never find Out about it;
228. If You believe That anyone who supports school vouchers, the strategic defense initiative, parental notification for abortion and privatization of social security is a right-wing kook, unless his name is Joe Lieberman;
229. If You believe That George W. Bush's degrees from Harvard and Yale do not change The fact that he is an idiot, but Al Gore's failing out of Vanderbilt is no reflection on his mentality;
230. If You believe That the only reason Socialism has never succeeded is because the Wrong people have been in charge;
231. If You believe And so, let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend And foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of donkeys
HOLY ****ING CUT AND PASTE

[Kachina26]

HOLY ****ING CUT AND PASTE
Forgive Steveo, he forgot that you had the corner on that market.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I found this somewhere:
You might be a Democrat...
1. If you believe
AND THEN AGAIN
This one was worse than my flawed lame Bush quotes copy and paste.

[Steve 1]

Forgive Steveo, he forgot that you had the corner on that market.
LOL Looks like I cut in on the Bent ones arena.

[Steve 1]

[QUOTE=Steve 1;2756009]I found this somewhere:
You might be a Democrat...
1. If you believe QUOTE]
AND THEN AGAIN
This one was worse than my flawed lame Bush quotes copy and paste.
Yeah I know like #220

[Steve 1]

HOLY ****ING CUT AND PASTE
"America is “kicking those sand niggers’ asses.”
But Ole Bent one we are kicking muzzie @ss.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

HOLY ****ING CUT AND PASTE
We know blown, YOU are the expert on cut/paste, and, by the way, it was COPY AND PASTE (unless the website permited him to remove it from the
site).
Got your 8 O2 sensors yet? Class is about to commense. :idea: :rolleyes:

[centerhill condor]

thanks for the support...
To give yet another loving spoonful for my hammer and sickle colored glass wearing friend Ultra.
So, what part of "all men are created equal" do you not accept? the creation part or the equality part?
The quotation "All men are created equal" (sometimes modified to "All people are created equal") is arguably the best-known phrase in any of America's political documents, as the idea it expresses is generally considered the foundation of American democracy. It was suggested[1] by the Italian immigrant, patriot and pamphleteer Philip Mazzei and later incorporated into the opening of the American Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson who paraphrased the writing of his close friend Philip Mazzei.[2]
The opening of the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776, states as follows:
“ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
and what about organized religion bothers you, exactly? You appear very well informed with regard to church investments...have any tips for us? And how many church P&Ls have you seen? by court order or as a member?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Most of my donations are to charities specifically organized to help crippled, blind, burned, or otherwise seriously affected children. I do this because I think these causes are worth much more than a bigger boat or vacation home. These donations are currently tax deductible...is that okay with you?
With regards to being blind, crippled, or deaf...you apparently are unaware of the incredible gifts to culture, art, music, science, etc by such affected individuals....could it be because somebody wasn't constantly reminding them of how pitiful they are and how they can't make a difference because of these problems.
Again, this proves "all men are created equal". How different you'd be without sight or hearing.
One of my favorite stories is of a child unable to go outside and play...sickly kid and spent most of his youth bedridden. He attempted to formulate how houseflies' behavior could be described mathematically. He went on to develop the foundation of math/physics and because, not in spite, of his "apparent disability". How much talent do we squander by giving a check instead of a chance. I'll give you a nickel if you can name this founding father of math/science.
Indeed, there are literally thousands of so called "disabled" composers, scientist, musicians, artists, that would've been something far less special but for being created equally, albeit in a different way than you or me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rugged individualism
Thomas Jefferson's America
President Jefferson considered the United States of America to be a noble experiment soundly based on John Locke's philosophy of "natural rights" emphasizing individual liberty above all. He envisioned the new republic as an agrarian or rural society of honest and hardworking men and women who would, with determination and courage, build a nation out of the wilderness.
Jefferson feared the inevitable power of a centralized government and the impersonal irresponsibility of an urbanized America. He believed that the rights of the states must be maintained and defended to limit the potentially dangerous authority of Federal Officials, and that citizens who lived on farms or in small towns were more likely than city dwellers to preserve and protect the fundamental liberties advocated by the Founding Fathers.
To Jefferson, the frontier symbolized the spirit, the drive, and the rugged individualism which characterized the people of the United States. To him, as well, the Constitution meant exactly what it said -- this document was the supreme guiding principle for the republic and should be strictly and literally interpreted. Jefferson believed in accountability and stated, "I place Economy among the first and most important virtues and Public Debts the greatest danger to be feared."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As for the horns and tits...I didn't state you were of less value to society. Merely that our experiences give us vastly different perspective. The old testament says those that stay behind are just as valued as those that go out on the hunt.
CC

[ULTRA26 # 1]

thanks for the support...
To give yet another loving spoonful for my hammer and sickle colored glass wearing friend Ultra.
So, what part of "all men are created equal" do you not accept? the creation part or the equality part?
The quotation "All men are created equal" (sometimes modified to "All people are created equal") is arguably the best-known phrase in any of America's political documents, as the idea it expresses is generally considered the foundation of American democracy. It was suggested[1] by the Italian immigrant, patriot and pamphleteer Philip Mazzei and later incorporated into the opening of the American Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson who paraphrased the writing of his close friend Philip Mazzei.[2]
The opening of the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776, states as follows:
“ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
and what about organized religion bothers you, exactly? You appear very well informed with regard to church investments...have any tips for us? And how many church P&Ls have you seen? by court order or as a member?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Most of my donations are to charities specifically organized to help crippled, blind, burned, or otherwise seriously affected children. I do this because I think these causes are worth much more than a bigger boat or vacation home. These donations are currently tax deductible...is that okay with you?
With regards to being blind, crippled, or deaf...you apparently are unaware of the incredible gifts to culture, art, music, science, etc by such affected individuals....could it be because somebody wasn't constantly reminding them of how pitiful they are and how they can't make a difference because of these problems.
Again, this proves "all men are created equal". How different you'd be without sight or hearing.
One of my favorite stories is of a child unable to go outside and play...sickly kid and spent most of his youth bedridden. He attempted to formulate how houseflies' behavior could be described mathematically. He went on to develop the foundation of math/physics and because, not in spite, of his "apparent disability". How much talent do we squander by giving a check instead of a chance. I'll give you a nickel if you can name this founding father of math/science.
Indeed, there are literally thousands of so called "disabled" composers, scientist, musicians, artists, that would've been something far less special but for being created equally, albeit in a different way than you or me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rugged individualism
Thomas Jefferson's America
President Jefferson considered the United States of America to be a noble experiment soundly based on John Locke's philosophy of "natural rights" emphasizing individual liberty above all. He envisioned the new republic as an agrarian or rural society of honest and hardworking men and women who would, with determination and courage, build a nation out of the wilderness.
Jefferson feared the inevitable power of a centralized government and the impersonal irresponsibility of an urbanized America. He believed that the rights of the states must be maintained and defended to limit the potentially dangerous authority of Federal Officials, and that citizens who lived on farms or in small towns were more likely than city dwellers to preserve and protect the fundamental liberties advocated by the Founding Fathers.
To Jefferson, the frontier symbolized the spirit, the drive, and the rugged individualism which characterized the people of the United States. To him, as well, the Constitution meant exactly what it said -- this document was the supreme guiding principle for the republic and should be strictly and literally interpreted. Jefferson believed in accountability and stated, "I place Economy among the first and most important virtues and Public Debts the greatest danger to be feared."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As for the horns and tits...I didn't state you were of less value to society. Merely that our experiences give us vastly different perspective. The old testament says those that stay behind are just as valued as those that go out on the hunt.
CC
Ahh the Velvet Hammer.
I'm not interested in your bible quotes nor am I interested in your commiephobic bullshit propaganda. You continue to make spectacle of yourself, while believing that you are in some way making me look bad.
I'm not going to start throwing low blows as it would serve no useful purpose. However, I will tell you to open your eyes and look around you. You will see that there is big world out there that doesn't revolve around your prehistoric views or concepts. You will also see that all men are not equal.
Be proud of the gifts you bring to others and thankful for those bestowed upon you. The earth is here for all to enjoy and every moment precious. Handle thy spirit with care and you will be content.

[Old Texan]

You will also see that all men are not equal.
The correct quote is- "All men were created equal".
All men are not born into equal "situations".
Given the "opportunity" all men have the potential of achieving equality.
Using hard work and determination all men have the "ability" to be equal.
By saying there is no hope of equality is taking every man's born right to rise up and achieve their dreams and fulfill their potential.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The correct quote is- "All men were created equal".
All men are not born into equal "situations".
Given the "opportunity" all men have the potential of achieving equality.
Using hard work and determination all men have the "ability" to be equal.
By saying there is no hope of equality is taking every man's born right to rise up and achieve their dreams and fulfill their potential.
Tex,
I understand the intent of the saying. However, where is the equality in a Downs baby, the severely retarded, those born deaf and dumb children who die of natural causes before they turn 5, and so on. These folks are what? Less fortunate, unlucky, not as blessed, cursed???
Again, I do understand your point.

[Schiada76]

AND THEN AGAIN
This one was worse than my flawed lame Bush quotes copy and paste.
Well except for the fact that this is true and your BDS cut and paste was a bunch of lies.:rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well except for the fact that this is true and your BDS cut and paste was a bunch of lies.:rolleyes:
Recruitements, Recruitements, :D :D

[Old Texan]

Tex,
I understand the intent of the saying. However, where is the equality in a Downs baby, the severely retarded, those born deaf and dumb children who die of natural causes before they turn 5, and so on. These folks are what? Less fortunate, unlucky, not as blessed, cursed???
Again, I do understand your point.
Cursed????? This you must explain.......:jawdrop:
Perhaps this is a cruel statement but realistically there is always going to be a percentage of defective births. But you got to explain the "Cursed" part.... I've got nothing for that one??????:confused:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Cursed????? This you must explain.......:jawdrop:
Perhaps this is a cruel statement but realistically there is always going to be a percentage of defective births. But you got to explain the "Cursed" part.... I've got nothing for that one??????:confused:
Honestly, this is one of those areas IMO, where, being lucky, being fortunate, or being blessed, applies or doesn't. You, among others, have stated animately that there is no such thing as luck. I'm not sure of the reason as to why some are born to live long and healthly lives and some aren't. I don't believe in spells or curses. The word curse was part of a question.

[Old Texan]

Honestly, this is one of those areas IMO, where, being lucky, being fortunate, or being blessed, applies or doesn't. You, among others, have stated animately that there is no such thing as luck. I'm not sure of the reason as to why some are born to live long and healthly lives and some aren't. I don't believe in spells or curses. The word curse was part of a question.
Question- Being in the insurance business, how many Actuaries include luck in their formulas?
Insurance to me seems to be based almost entirely on statistics. How do they allow for luck????? (Seriously):confused:
Could much of life itself be statistical? Luck could be nothing more than statistical odds and probabilities?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Question- Being in the insurance business, how many Actuaries include luck in their formulas?
Insurance to me seems to be based almost entirely on statistics. How do they allow for luck????? (Seriously):confused:
Could much of life itself be statistical? Luck could be nothing more than statistical odds and probabilities?
Actuaries don't deal in luck only statistics, I agree.
Tex I work with stats, trends and numbers every day. Obviously all very real. Statistical data can establish that 1 in 20 insureds will have no fault accident. However, statistics can not establish which of the 20 it will be.

[Old Texan]

Actuaries don't deal in luck only statistics, I agree.
Tex I work with stats, trends and numbers every day. Obviously all very real. Statistical data can establish that 1 in 20 insureds will have no fault accident. However, statistics can not establish which of the 20 it will be.
Then it becomes "random chance".
Take Vegas for example. "Luck" of a tourist vs. the "System" of a Pro. The tourist sits down at a BJ table and bets randomly with little regard to cards showing or dealt. He typically loses but may "luck" out on a hand or 2. A Pro comes in with an established "System" of counting cards or weighing the odds of cards showing and dealt. The Pro will statiscally be able to improve the odds and have a far higher winning margin than the Tourist.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Then it becomes "random chance".
Take Vegas for example. "Luck" of a tourist vs. the "System" of a Pro. The tourist sits down at a BJ table and bets randomly with little regard to cards showing or dealt. He typically loses but may "luck" out on a hand or 2. A Pro comes in with an established "System" of counting cards or weighing the odds of cards showing and dealt. The Pro will statiscally be able to improve the odds and have a far higher winning margin than the Tourist.
Obviously Tex, Vegas didn't become what it is by random chance. Again, I assure you that I understand what numbers are and what they mean.
"Random Chance". If you look up the meaning of chance, you will find luck in it's definition.

[Old Texan]

Obviously Tex, Vegas didn't become what it is by random chance. Again, I assure you that I understand what numbers are and what they mean.
"Random Chance". If you look up the meaning of chance, you will find luck in it's definition.
That's the point, chance= unpredictable. Luck is unpredictable.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

That's the point, chance= unpredictable. Luck is unpredictable.
Of course. Something or someone that was lucky is always after the fact. I think we agree.

[Moneypitt]

Of course. Something or someone that was lucky is always after the fact. I think we agree.
He thinks they agree!!! Hey John, toss a coin....It comes up heads 4 times in a row...What are the "heads and tails" odds on the next toss?.........MP

[ULTRA26 # 1]

He thinks they agree!!! Hey John, toss a coin....It comes up heads 4 times in a row...What are the "heads and tails" odds on the next toss?.........MP
Ray,
Are you trying to be funny? 50/50. The odds don't change only the probability.

[centerhill condor]

Communism is now widely regarded as an aberrant system, and it is thought remarkable that it could have survived for so long among a species which regards itself as rational. There is little awareness that a system of broadly identical ideas dominates Europe under the title of liberalism.
Tick off the five main points.
Both communism and liberalism maintain with complete certainty that the destruction of the existing society will give birth to a new form of human existence at the least approaching utopia. They are what Daniel Chirot dubbed 'tyrannies of certitude'.
A particular group of people has been responsible for blocking the happy development for centuries. In the case of communism it was capitalists, in the case of liberalism it is 'racists'. One must be harsh to build the new society and not make excuses. Few people know that the word 'racism' was invented by Leon Trotsky, one of the principal architects of the communist nightmare.
The rightness of the cause dictates that a political architecture of lies rather than reasoned argument is permissible if necessary to bring about the result. Since no one will willingly give up their human identity, and that is what we are being asked to do, lies will, in fact, be indispensable. The communists aimed at eradicating 'bourgeois consciousness'. The liberals are systematically eradicating our history and identity from schools to ensure pliancy before the onslaught of anti-majority bias in everything from newspapers to employment law. In this they are unlikely to succeed in the long run. The Russian and Yugoslav experience under communism has shown the persistency of racial and cultural identity.
Doubters concerning the wisdom of the new arrangements are to be marginalised, vilified or silenced - under communism they were dubbed capitalist spies and saboteurs, under liberalism they are 'racists' - a sound catch-all term of abuse for any person opposing their own marginalisation.
The 'racists' are well-organised and to blame for nearly everything which goes wrong according to authority, just like the 'counter-revolutionaries, western spies and saboteurs' in the heyday of communism. Under communism the newspapers would say 'capitalist spy ring raided'. Under liberalism we read 'police target racist groups'. In both cases good citizens are to congratulate themselves on the skill and wisdom of the authorities in protecting them from disruptions to the relentless march towards paradise on earth so evident on Soviet collective farms and now in Britain's inner-cities.
If communism was not delivering the goods then even more stringent action was needed to eradicate the source of the trouble. Since it had been scientifically proven that communism would deliver, what possible other cause could there be for failure except disruption by malcontents? If people do not actually enjoy mass immigration and the so-called 'multiracial society', it must surely be the work of similar malcontents. Liberal theory is flawless. Like communism, it presents itself as scientifically-based - an abundancy of pseudo-sociological tosh underpins its thinking - and dictates a historically-inevitable outcome in which we all celebrate the fact that we have as little in common with the people we live with as possible. Supposed 'historical inevitability' as a weapon of political language has been filched from communism and creeps into every liberal initiative. It is used, for example, to forward the EU superstate project.
Both liberals and communists maintain that their systems can never be wrong. It is rather like the jesuitical argument that no innocent person has ever been hanged. Since all those hanged have been convicted by a court, they are by legal definition guilty!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
came across this and thought it was rather fitting.
CC

[centerhill condor]

Subject: How to Catch Wild Pigs
*How to Catch Wild Pigs *
*
*There was a Chemistry professor in a large college that had some
Foreign Exchange students in his class. One day while the class was in
the lab the Prof noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept
rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.
The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told
him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting
communists in his native country, who were trying to overthrow his
country's government and install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange
question. He asked, "Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"
The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The
young man said this was no joke.
"You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and
putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday
to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a
fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When
they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put
up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat
again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up, with
a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start
to come through the gate to eat. When you see that they all are
peacefully eating the free corn, you slam the gate shut on them and
catch the whole herd.
"Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and
around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to
eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten
how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity."
The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees
happening to America. The government keeps pushing us toward
communism/socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of
programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income,
tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP),
welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms,
just a little at a time.
One should always remember "There is no such thing as a Free Lunch!"
Also, "You can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper
than you can do it yourself."
Also, if you see that all of this wonderful government "help" is a
problem confronting the future of democracy in America, you might want
to send this on to your friends.
If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life then you
will probably delete this email, but God help you when the gate slams shut!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Out of curosity, who do you view as the Wild Pigs? All them colored folks on welfare? Must be cuz most of the illegals are here to work

[Sleeper CP]

Out of curosity, who do you view as the Wild Pigs? All them colored folks of welfare? Must be cuz most of the illegals are here to work
As a very conservative American that happens to be "Black" I see nothing of race in his statement.
The "Big government" is trying to spoon feed as many people as they can regardless of color. They just want to grow and suck in as many Dependants as possible.
I live in a 85+ % "white" area of San Diego County. One of my oldest and closet friends (she is "white") lives about 7 miles from me and her children attend a school that is approx. 87% "white". Three years ago she received a letter from the school for her to fill out the enclosed "free" lunch application for her two children so that they can start receiving "free" lunch. Mind you, my friend lives on 9 beautiful acres that she has a horse ranch on a beautiful house that worth in excess on $ 1 million dollars and she drives a $ 130k SL 600 Mercedes. And the school wants her to receive "free" lunch for her kids.
She called the school and asked "why did I receive this application" the answer was " if you fill it out then we don't have to worry about who gets free lunch or not, If every child receives it it would be easier for our staff"
She said " No thank you" and a few other choice words.
The point being ,the more people government can get on the dole the bigger than can grow it(gov).
The whole free lunch, free breakfast, free after school daycare crap; anyway to get people to abrogate their responsibilities as parents to let the government take care of your children (regardless of race) weakens the family and grows dependence on government. Then 20 years from now when some politician wants "free" health care for all with dental and eye care included those that grew up with government supplying them with "free" everything else will be more likely to take the next step and say" well the government is already doing all of this for us... so free heath care doesn't seem so bad."
Sorry for the rant... but I didn't see it as a "race" thing. The government doesn't care who they fence in and who they make a dependent and who's rights they reduce they just want to do it regardless of whom they do it to.
Sleeper CP .....Out
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ULTRA26 # 1]

As a very conservative American that happens to be "Black" I see nothing of race in his statement.
The "Big government" is trying to spoon feed as many people as they can regardless of color. They just want to grow and suck in as many Dependants as possible.
I live in a 85+ % "white" area of San Diego County. One of my oldest and closet friends (she is "white") lives about 7 miles from me and here children attend a school that is approx. 87% "white". Three years ago she received a letter from the school for her to fill out the enclosed "free" lunch application for her two children so that they can start receiving "free" lunch. Mind you, my friend lives on 9 beautiful acres that she has a horse ranch on a beautiful house that worth in excess on $ 1 million dollars and she drives a $ 130k SL 600 Mercedes. And the school wants her to receive "free" lunch for her kids.
She called the school and asked "why did I receive this application" the answer was " if you fill it out then we don't have to worry about who gets free lunch or not, If every child receives it it would be easier for or staff"
She said " No thank you" and a few other choice words.
The point being ,the more people government can get on the dole the bigger than can grow it(gov).
The whole free lunch, free breakfast, free after school daycare crap; anyway to get people to abrogate their responsibilities as parents to let the government take care of your children (regardless of race) weakens the family and grows dependence on government. Then 20 years from now when some politician wants "free" health care for all with dental and eye care included those that grew up with government supplying them with "free" everything else will be more likely to take the next step and say" well the government is already doing all of this for us... so free heath care doesn't seem so bad."
Sorry for the rant... but I didn't see it as a "race" thing. The government doesn't care who they fence in and who they make a dependent and who's rights they reduce they just want to do it regardless of whom they do it to.
Sleeper CP .....Out
Big Inch Ford Lover
Sleeper,
My comment had nothing to do with his statement and only to do with CC's previous comments. I have a difficult time with those who feed on White Christian Supremacist garbage, as this poster seems to have done, in the past.
I agree that the Govt does way too much spoon feeding now. We surely don't need any more.

[Blown 472]

Lemme ask yall a question, what percentage of your paycheck goes to taxes, think of every tax you have to pay, property etc.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Lemme ask yall a question, what percentage of your paycheck goes to taxes, think of every tax you have to pay, property etc.
Easy 35%

[Sleeper CP]

Sleeper,
My comment had nothing to do with his statement and only to do with CC's previous comments. I have a difficult time with those who feed on White Christian Supremacist garbage, as this poster seems to have done, in the past.
.
Got it.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[centerhill condor]

Sleeper,
My comment had nothing to do with his statement and only to do with CC's previous comments. I have a difficult time with those who feed on White Christian Supremacist garbage, as this poster seems to have done, in the past.
I agree that the Govt does way too much spoon feeding now. We surely don't need any more.
he called me a racist...'cause that's all he's got. You seem to feed on it pretty good! squeel like a pig.
CC

[Old Texan]

Out of curosity, who do you view as the Wild Pigs? All them colored folks on welfare? Must be cuz most of the illegals are here to work
Very poor statement. You call CC a racist yet you are the one bringing race into the equation. Your play on ebonics speaks for itself......:(
Very disappointing and your justification to Sleeper is just as lame.
Read up on the mess going on in Jena, LA. What you have just done is somewhat akin to the Rev Al and other purveyors of racism inciting and blowing an incident way out of proportion. There are true racists on each side that should be held at bay by the majority refusing to acknowledge their hate and quell their "cancerous growth" on society by refusing to acknowledge their existance. Jena's community should not be destroyed by outsiders with a racist agenda. Blacks within the community didn't do much to defend the 6 as 4 had previous problems with the law and were viewed as questionable elements of the community by the black minority. Just like the above post, racism was insinuated and excellerated out of context.
CC has posted excerpts from various sources, some of which had white supremist leanings but I still don't see him as a hate filled racist. His points were another take on the life and times of MLK. He has his opinion but I don't view it as racist by any means. His point was objective and presenting evidence from another point of view just because it may be distasteful doesn't alter it's possibility of some truth. MLK had dealings and at minimum some connections with communist sympathizers. Did he use them or did they use him? It's all a matter of debate.
Sharpton and Jackson though use racism as a tool for self gain and are quite open and confrontational about. King wasn't fond of Jackson and probalby would have never recognized Sharpton as good for the black community. Unity of the races and communities can't be achieved if the fingerpointing doesn't stop. Open dialogue is the key and any bringing the race card to the table from either side just don't understand the show so to speak.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Easy 35%
IF you are in the 29% federal income bracket:
What are you paying in STATE Income Tax?
What % do you pay feeding your Civic, Lightning, and that oh so efficient BOAT gasoline?
Sales taxes?
Excise taxes on Liqour/beer, unless of course you are a teatotaler?
Property taxes on your home, the Civic, that Lightning, the wonderfully efficient BOAT?
Your 35% is WAY low. :idea:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Oh, taxes on your phone service, Cell Phone service, Cable TV Service, Satelite TV service, electrical service, sewer and water service bills, taxes on natural gas home service, propane for the house, OR barbecue grill, taxes on internet service, etc, etc.
How many more am I just not thinking of guys?:idea:
I deliberately left out taxes on Cigaretts, just figuring ultra is too much of a health fan to smoke or dip. I didn't forget them. :)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

he called me a racist...'cause that's all he's got. You seem to feed on it pretty good! squeel like a pig.
CC
Are you saying that you don't follow the ideals of White Christian Supremacists?. As I recall it was you who spoke of a few different negros in your life, insurance agents, a preacher and a teacher, that have gone out of their way proving they were as good as white people.
Very poor statement. You call CC a racist yet you are the one bringing race into the equation. Your play on ebonics speaks for itself......:(
Very disappointing and your justification to Sleeper is just as lame.
Sorry to disappoint you Tex but I believe that CC should be the one to tell me I'm wrong not you. From all indications my response to Sleeper was just and accurate. CC he has yet to dispute White Christian Supremacist allegations
IF you are in the 29% federal income bracket:
What are you paying in STATE Income Tax?
What % do you pay feeding your Civic, Lightning, and that oh so efficient BOAT gasoline?
Sales taxes?
Excise taxes on Liqour/beer, unless of course you are a teatotaler?
Property taxes on your home, the Civic, that Lightning, the wonderfully efficient BOAT?
Your 35% is WAY low. :idea:
Of course you know more about how much the tax I pay than I do.:)
I spend on average of about $350 a month on gas, total, property taxes are $3500 a year on both houses, (tax deductible) (bought the 1st 21 years ago and the 2nd in 2000. Orig cost less than $265,000 for both current value near 1 mil. Property tax based on orig purchase price) I quit smoking recently after 40 years :D :D, your right I don't drink. Deducting the interest on two re-fied homes, saves my butt. Also, no sales tax in CA on food or cars. No property tax in AZ for boats. My estimate may be a point or two low, at the outside. I have a good accountant.