Nitrous Questions

[pw_Tony]

Just had some general questions about nitrous.
Background: 340 Mopar, about 10:1-10.5:1 compression. Around .510 lift cam 244@.050.
Single plane manifold.
650 carb.
Just had it plumbed with a Cheater system which I believe is between 125-250 shot. Has switch at bottom of gas pedal to engage. Running electronic ignition with MSD 6al
What are the general procedures for running nitrous? What fuel should be ran? Using an electrical fuel pump now. Where should the timing be at total advanced to run nitrous decently safe? Don't have an O2 sensor yet, should the plugs be around the same color as a N/A motor running well?
Any other things I NEED to know before running some would help, first time experience . Thanks, Tony

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Just had some general questions about nitrous.
Background: 340 Mopar, about 10:1-10.5:1 compression. Around .510 lift cam 244@.050.
Single plane manifold.
650 carb.
Just had it plumbed with a Cheater system which I believe is between 125-250 shot. Has switch at bottom of gas pedal to engage. Running electronic ignition with MSD 6al
What are the general procedures for running nitrous? What fuel should be ran? Using an electrical fuel pump now. Where should the timing be at total advanced to run nitrous decently safe? Don't have an O2 sensor yet, should the plugs be around the same color as a N/A motor running well?
Any other things I NEED to know before running some would help, first time experience . Thanks, Tony
Your going to need a method of increasing your fuel input relative to the NOS shot. Colder plugs and/or bigger gap too. The MSD is a must.
It's been a long time since my Nitrous days. I don't recall timing as being as issue with the dry system I had. I do remember that once it was dialed, it was amazing.

[IMPATIENT 1]

#1 DON'T EVER LOSE FUEL PRESSURE!!!! put in a fuel pressure safety switch before you ever hit the button for the 1st time! i've seen to many people who had 8-9psi at idle and at wot 1psi:D a fuel pressure safety switch will turn off your nitrous if your fuel supply pressure drops below 6-7psi;)
for every 50hp i added with nitrous i'd take out 1 1/2 degree of timing. when i ran 300hp , i ran total timing at 28degrees on my 11 to 1 bbf 460

[Sleeper CP]

Any other things I NEED to know before running some would help, first time experience . Thanks, Tony
What you need to know is this: There are two types of Nitrous users, those that have blown up shit and those that will.
I'm working on the boat at moment, I'll send you some info later.
ImpatientOne had some very good infor. If possiable have a seperate fuel reg. for the Nitrous system.
Sleeper CP

[IMPATIENT 1]

What you need to know is this: There are two types of Nitrous users, those that have blown up shit and those that will.
I'm working on the boat at moment, I'll send you some info later.
ImpatientOne had some very good infor. If possiable have a seperate fuel reg. for the Nitrous system.
Sleeper CP
those are the same guys who's gave nitrous a bad name;) i've NEVER damaged a motor on nitrous and i've ran thru almost a 1000lbs of the stuff:D
i'm plannin on runnin a blown nitrous set-up next yr.

[pw_Tony]

What you need to know is this: There are two types of Nitrous users, those that have blown up shit and those that will.
I'm working on the boat at moment, I'll send you some info later.
ImpatientOne had some very good infor. If possiable have a seperate fuel reg. for the Nitrous system.
Sleeper CP
Oh yes, that is what we're expecting. Geoff knows the car, it's a 65 Plymouth Valiant with 33"X:19" tires on it:D
This car came with nitrous half hooked up, so decided to juice it til it blows, then goes in the new 700hp Small Block Dodge:)

[Sleeper CP]

those are the same guys who's gave nitrous a bad name;) i've NEVER damaged a motor on nitrous and i've ran thru almost a 1000lbs of the stuff:D
i'm plannin on runnin a blown nitrous set-up next yr.
That just tells me your are not trying hard enough. :eek: :D You have got to lean on it sometime. :idea:
I've blown up my fair share of shit before the system got dialed in, but there was no way in hell I was going to quit the stuff once I found it, it's way to much fun. Sex in a bottle...:) :)
BTW : at a 1,000 lbs you are a little above a novice.;)
Sleeper

[IMPATIENT 1]

That just tells me your are not trying hard enough. :eek: :D You have got to lean on it sometime. :idea:
I've blown up my fair share of shit before the system got dialed in, but there was no way in hell I was going to quit the stuff once I found it, it's way to much fun. Sex in a bottle...:) :)
BTW : at a 1,000 lbs you are a little above a novice.;)
Sleeper
i've been using nitrous on something for the past 8-9yrs(i'm only 31);) yep, sex in a bottle is a very good descript:D
nah man, i've leaned on my bottle for long stretches in the ole boat, but i had alot of protection built into every system i set up. if pressure ever got low on any of my set-ups, system would shut off. when i set up nitrous boats, i use a fuel pressure safety switch and low oil pressure switch to protect my mill.safety switches are alot cheaper than pistons;)

[Sleeper CP]

".safety switches are alot cheaper than pistons;)"
A true statement indeed.
The other thing Tony needs to know is to learn to read the plugs after a good Nitrous pull and run the system alittle rich on the fuel side. It might take a little hit out of the system but 10-15% rich is better than 10-15% lean.
Sleeper

[IMPATIENT 1]

A true statement indeed.
The other thing Tony needs to know is to learn to read the plugs after a good Nitrous pull and run the system alittle rich on the fuel side. It might take a little hit out of the system but 10-15% rich is better than 10-15% lean.
Sleeper
no doubt! plus the little extra fuel will slow detonation some, allow alittle more timing. all my systems wanted 7 psi to the solenoid, i always gave them 8 1/2:D

[pw_Tony]

A true statement indeed.
The other thing Tony needs to know is to learn to read the plugs after a good Nitrous pull and run the system alittle rich on the fuel side. It might take a little hit out of the system but 10-15% rich is better than 10-15% lean.
Sleeper
OK Will diffentely checking out the plugs after some pulls, starting out with a 125 shot first, but I'm sure nitrous is like a blower, it's too easy to get more power so we might get greedy:devil:

[DUCKY]

Just a few quick suggestions.
#1, Bottle pressure.... 900-1000psi Excessive bottle pressure increases nitrous flow and makes for a lean condition which is a bad thing....
#2, Fuel pressure safety switch is absolutely required. A separate fuel system (pump, filter, etc.) for the N20 system is not a bad idea either.
#3, Pressure regulator and gauge on the fuel side of the N20 system for fine tuning. Start out with at least 10psi for safety and lean it from there based on plug readings. A bypass type regulator right next to the fuel solenoid is the best setup. This prevents an air pocket from forming next to the solenoid. N20 without fuel = KABOOM
#4, Nitrous Retard from MSD...a good thing.
#5, Fuel should be high quality. NO PUMP GAS, at least for the N20 enrichment.
#6, Keep it rich. Nice light brown colored plugs with the timing line out towards the edge of the ground strap means safety. Clean white plugs with timing lines up towards the threads means you are playing with fire.....
Hope this helps.....

[pw_Tony]

Just a few quick suggestions.
#1, Bottle pressure.... 900-1000psi Excessive bottle pressure increases nitrous flow and makes for a lean condition which is a bad thing....
#2, Fuel pressure safety switch is absolutely required. A separate fuel system (pump, filter, etc.) for the N20 system is not a bad idea either.
#3, Pressure regulator and gauge on the fuel side of the N20 system for fine tuning. Start out with at least 10psi for safety and lean it from there based on plug readings. A bypass type regulator right next to the fuel solenoid is the best setup. This prevents an air pocket from forming next to the solenoid. N20 without fuel = KABOOM
#4, Nitrous Retard from MSD...a good thing.
#5, Fuel should be high quality. NO PUMP GAS, at least for the N20 enrichment.
#6, Keep it rich. Nice light brown colored plugs with the timing line out towards the edge of the ground strap means safety. Clean white plugs with timing lines up towards the threads means you are playing with fire.....
Hope this helps.....
So 91 octane is a no no correct?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

So 91 octane is a no no correct?
91 octane with enough fuel, in the mix, shouldn't be an issue with a 125 or 150 shot. Great advice from many so far.

[QuickJet]

Running a 10.5-1 compression small block with a small cam plus 150 shot and only using 91 octane to do so is asking for trouble. Especially for a first time go at it.
I'd run 100 octane minimum with that combo (and that's only with a dedicated fuel system for the nitrous). I'd run a separate tank, fuel pump and regulator just for the nitrous system. Run a fuel pressure gauge and a low delivery automatic cutoff. Regulate the fuel delivery between 5.5 and 6 psi
Stay away from large gaps and extended tipped plugs as well. With the 150 shot I'd run 1 stage colder plug and pull about 3-4degrees total out of the timing.
After each pass pull a plug to see where you are at with the settings. I always ran my nitrous settings a bit rich to be safe.

[Sleeper CP]

Someone wrote about a big gap....That would be a big NO No if you ask me.
Gap at 28 thou. to start with.
Sleeper CP

[hotbo]

all of this is good info,but imo dont get carried away with all the seperate fuel stuff,maybe big nos hits yes,but 300 or less imo not needed.nx express says to run no more than 5psi pressure to there nos kits,ive got my pressure saftey swithch set at 5psi and my fuel pressure iss at 7.5 so if it starts to fall below 5 its suppose to shut down:confused:. i have a digital 6 box msd that has a single single step retard so i can just turn the dial to whatever setting i want to retard my timing when i mash my button.ive ran 4 bottles with my 150 ive now stepped up to 200 and gonna try this.i havent had the slightest problem yet,key word yet,just watch your pressure and so forth read all 8 plugs after a good solid nos pull and see what they look like,oh yeah nos will clean your plugs off so you need to look down inside the plug not just the top part of the porcelian.hell at any given time a mill will frie with any kinda nos,boost.all you can do imo is just pucker yo ass and hope for the best.thats what i do.:D 150 or less they say run 93 octane,anything above this and run racing mix or full blown racing fuel.later trav.

[N281PONY]

Is this a brand new kit? If not I would go through the solenoids. Pull them apart and clean them. Maybe even put a new set of seats in them.

[HOWARD UFH]

all of this is good info,but imo dont get carried away with all the seperate fuel stuff,maybe big nos hits yes,but 300 or less imo not needed.nx express says to run no more than 5psi pressure to there nos kits,ive got my pressure saftey swithch set at 5psi and my fuel pressure iss at 7.5 so if it starts to fall below 5 its suppose to shut down:confused:. i have a digital 6 box msd that has a single single step retard so i can just turn the dial to whatever setting i want to retard my timing when i mash my button.ive ran 4 bottles with my 150 ive now stepped up to 200 and gonna try this.i havent had the slightest problem yet,key word yet,just watch your pressure and so forth read all 8 plugs after a good solid nos pull and see what they look like,oh yeah nos will clean your plugs off so you need to look down inside the plug not just the top part of the porcelian.hell at any given time a mill will frie with any kinda nos,boost.all you can do imo is just pucker yo ass and hope for the best.thats what i do.:D 150 or less they say run 93 octane,anything above this and run racing mix or full blown racing fuel.later trav.nitrous doesnt blow motors up trying to side step the dedicated fuel system would. 300 shot warrants a dedicated fuel system.I dont think you should be crossing your fingers every time you are in the button just my personal experience

[Boostedballs]

Separate fuel tank with its own pump and regulator. Your "ARMED" switch can turn the pump on and the throttle can activate the solenoids at WOT and ONLY WOT. Good race gas or AVgas is good to have in the nitrous fuel tank not just because you have a high compression engine but because you won't have to drain it if you leave your boat sitting or you don't use the NOS very often. Shelf life of pump gas= 2 weeks; shelf life of AVgas= 2 years.
I would start with the medium fuel nozzle and the small N20 nozzle. Bring a couple sets of plugs with you and shut down right after a N2O run. If you let your engine idle for a while it can change your reading and throw you off.
I would go with a SMALLER gap if any gap change at all. The higher the cylinder pressure, the more power is required to jump the same gap. N20 WILL increase your pressure.
Either way, you don't want to stomp the gas from an idle. I would go 3/4 throttle until your RPM's are over 3000 or so before spraying. You could buy an RPM activation switch for $.
Your piston will get out of the way of a good N2O combustion, even if it means it has to kick a rod out the side of the block. RPM is safety.

[HOWARD UFH]

becarefull rich is good to rich with the supplemented gas will lift the ring landings.

[DUCKY]

My comment about the "no pump gas" is just for safety. You can run 91 octane, but honestly if your motor is 10.5:1 with iron heads you really shouldn't be running straight pump gas anyways.
I don't necessarily think you need a separate fuel tank, although it's not a bad idea. The separate pump or at least the separate regulator and gauge off your existing pump really should be done. If not for reliability, at least for tuning ability.
The comment about mixing up the jets, in my opinion is not a good practice. Much better to use the jets they package together as a HP level, then up the fuel pressure a little for a safety net. The reason I say this is that for a 150 shot, lets just say that the fuel jet is a 70 the next HP level might call for a 78 or something and that is a huge change from what the manufacturer intended.
Lastly, the words about the getting the motor up to a sufficient RPM are good ones. The only way around that is if you had something like a 4500 stall converter, then I wouldn't worry about it.
We use a RPM window switch on the Barb Wire. It turns on the spray at 5K (only if WOT, with sufficient fuel pressure), and off anywhere from 6000 to whatever we need. Usually 6200-6500 rpm. Depending on the weather, each 100 rpm is usually worth .05 to .07 change in the ET.

[hotbo]

nitrous doesnt blow motors up trying to side step the dedicated fuel system would. 300 shot warrants a dedicated fuel system.I dont think you should be crossing your fingers every time you are in the button just my personal experience
im talking in boats and from my personal experince i have never needed a dedicated fuel system.the gas tanks in aots are even or in front of the mill in jets,or v-drives.cars shit is behind so yes it has to work harder than a boat does for its fuel. hes talking small shots here damn dont scare him to death over nos b.s..yes 91 on a 10.5 motor is not good anyway kinda makes me wonder if its a true 10.5 motor:confused: regardless i wish the best and the best thing to do is call whoevers tech line the system is and ask them also.
as far as mixing jets:idea: be careful,colder plugs not always needed and yes do not get to big of gap or flame will blow out.it will be a fun ride the first time you hit the button:D we have a 406 roller with 250 on it in a pro street truck we run at the track and street it some it runs 8.30s in the 1/8 and it is one wild ride when you mash the button all together different than the water thats for sure.later trav.

[Jetboatguru]

I have run NOS on a few hopped up chevys and a Pontiac headed motor. I didn't like the idea of the activation button on the throttle as it meant that you were spraying the whole time you were mashed if you had the system armed. I liked having the button on the wheel. My idea behind using NOS was to end the race quickly and not have to wind up the engine for a quarter mile and run big mph on sketchy water. I would hit the bottle right from get and the race would be over in 200 feet. You could lift off the NOS and let the motor run the rest of the way. I never gained any more top end MPH when on the bottle. It would just drop my et by about a second or more at the races. I ran an injector 80a-0 pump from from enderle. I Tee'd off of it and ran one side to the motor and the other to the NOS. The pump was set at 7psi and I ran a seperate solenoid set 6 psi. I didn't run a low pressure switch and when the pump went away one time the motor popped. Didnt hurt it but scared the crap out of me. By hitting the button from idle the motor wasn't stressed and wrung out before it popped. People in here have given you huge $ saving advice and knowledge.

[Sleeper CP]

As Jetboatguru said I would rather have the Nos switch on a button than on a throttle switch. Just easier to control. I have done it both ways in the boat.
Sleeper CP
514" Ford Lover

[Jetboatguru]

SleeperCp
I also an a 7al3 box with a two step retard. I had a 8 degree retard chip in it. With the Pontiac I ran 34 degrees timing and it would retard to 26 degrees. I had a 400 shot plate system with two dominators.

[IMPATIENT 1]

SleeperCp
I also an a 7al3 box with a two step retard. I had a 8 degree retard chip in it. With the Pontiac I ran 34 degrees timing and it would retard to 26 degrees. I had a 400 shot plate system with two dominators.
man, bet that felt good to smash down on:devil: :devil:

[Unchained]

BTW : at a 1,000 lbs you are a little above a novice.;)
Sleeper
Reality check time,
1000 # of nitrous=100 ten# bottles = $ 45.+- per 10# bottle = $4,500.00 :eek:
Plus your time to chase it and change the bottles.
Time on the bottle.........10# = about 90 seconds ?
That amount of money would have bought some real parts rather than ....air ....

[Sleeper CP]

Reality check time,
1000 # of nitrous=100 ten# bottles = $ 45.+- per 10# bottle = $4,500.00 :eek:
Plus your time to chase it and change the bottles.
Time on the bottle.........10# = about 90 seconds ?That amount of money would have bought some real parts rather than ....air ....
There is something wrong with this part. I wish 10#'s lasted 90 seconds; if it did wouldn't he have 90 seconds x 100= 9,000 seconds/60 = 150 hrs. That would work for me.
Just remember Unchained "different strokes for different folks" we all like to go fast, it doesn't really matter to me how you do it. And I never capped on the turbo boats that my 565" Nos motor blew out of the water;) , not once did I ever tell them " Hey your high tech high dollar twin turbo hot rod just got blown out of the water by my old school big inch Ford";) :)
I may have thought it ,but I never said it because it was axiomatic.;) :D
Reality Check that!
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover

[76miller]

Have you picked out what kit your gonna get yet ? I'm tired of wondering how cool it is..?..I'm going for it ! Good thread though. -76miller

[76miller]

Reality check time,
1000 # of nitrous=100 ten# bottles = $ 45.+- per 10# bottle = $4,500.00 :eek:
Plus your time to chase it and change the bottles.
Time on the bottle.........10# = about 90 seconds ?
That amount of money would have bought some real parts rather than ....air ....
Cool buzz kill ! Man, you sound like a guy who might-a -got broke off by someone with a smaller motor and some squeeze !:confused:

[pw_Tony]

Have you picked out what kit your gonna get yet ? I'm tired of wondering how cool it is..?..I'm going for it ! Good thread though. -76miller
It's not my car it's in. I'm just trying to get some answers for my father.
But I know it's a "Cheater" NOS system. From 125 shot to 250. I still have two systems I intended on using, one was a 100-175 carb spacer shot for my challenger, and the other was one I had made for my 660 Raptor. But he's going to test it, and I'm sure I'll post some results from it, since we're NOS newbies too. Hopefully we'll get some wheel stands ;)

[N281PONY]

Another point nobody has mentioned is bottle pressure. Ideal pressure is around 1050psi. If your working on your tuneup try to keep your pressure the same every hit. It helps in tuning. I generally keep mine around 900psi unless I need to lean on it a little bit.:D Generally will go to the staging lanes with around 1075-1125psi. Then purge it a few times to get all the air out of the line and bring bottle pressure down.

[Unchained]

There is something wrong with this part. I wish 10#'s lasted 90 seconds; if it did wouldn't he have 90 seconds x 100= 9,000 seconds/60 = 150 hrs. That would work for me.
:idea:
That would be 150 minutes or 2.5 hrs.
I've got no misconceptions about what performance you can get out of nitrous.
Been there and done that.
Didn't want to ruffle feathers here, just make a point about how costs add up.

[Sleeper CP]

:idea:
That would be 150 minutes or 2.5 hrs.
I've got no misconceptions about what performance you can get out of nitrous.
Been there and done that.
Didn't want to ruffle feathers here, just make a point about how costs add up.
Thanks for the correction. I was driving down the road and thought to my self 60x60=3600 to get to hours, damn missed. Yeah, when you do the math
you would get 2.5 hrs for $ 4,500. but you only pay for it a little at a time.
Like I said " It's sex in a bottle":D
Sleeper CP

[Cs19]

Didn't want to ruffle feathers here, just make a point about how costs add up.
Thanks Mark, we would be lost without you.
:rolleyes:

[Cs19]

Last year I ran a Wilson fogger 250 shot on a 565 big chief, .028/.028 jets at 6.5 psi, product engr. reg with bypass, pulled 10-11 degrees on a digital MSD retard, NGK R5671A9 non projected tip plug, button activated on the wheel or NOS timer for bracket racing.
I think most guys who are running a decent amount of n20 rephase the rotor to your timing setting while on the bottle and general rule of thumb for retard is 2 degree/50 HP.
My .02

[IMPATIENT 1]

Reality check time,
1000 # of nitrous=100 ten# bottles = $ 45.+- per 10# bottle = $4,500.00 :eek:
Plus your time to chase it and change the bottles.
Time on the bottle.........10# = about 90 seconds ?
That amount of money would have bought some real parts rather than ....air ....
that's why my new boat has boost instead;) although it will see a small shot of nitrous too next yr. on top of the blower:devil:

[DUCKY]

Another point nobody has mentioned is bottle pressure....
08-22-2007, 05:45 PM
DUCKY
Just a few quick suggestions.
#1, Bottle pressure.... 900-1000psi Excessive bottle pressure increases nitrous flow and makes for a lean condition which is a bad thing....