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decooney
08-25-2007, 07:52 AM
Hello ***boaters. After doing some searching around on the internet, I found this site, and this is my first post. I'm looking for some insight on a few questions below which are very important to me personally, and I'm hoping to gain some understanding and closure on a decades-old matter; thinking maybe a few boat history buffs here could help me with some understanding and history regarding the design, build, and quality of the Sunkist Tunnel Hull jet boats from 1979-1981. I think many of you will probably be able to figure out the answer to my real question at the root of all these questions below.
What were these boats designed for - recreation or race?
What are/were the strengths and limitations of these boats?
Were the hulls designed to handle over 1,000 hp?
Were they truly designed to run over 100mph?
Were they really designed to "fly on the water", just the jet in water?
Are there any of these boat hulls left in tact, still holding together?
I'll explain more later. Please trust me when I say this is a very hard and serious question I've needed to ask since 1981, and it's taken me until now to be able to do it. Thanks ahead for your time and responses. Duane

IMPATIENT 1
08-25-2007, 08:04 AM
is it a gullwing or tunnel? sunkist splashed the tx-19 hull

decooney
08-25-2007, 08:10 AM
IMP-1,
As for model number, I don't know. It came to a point in the front; was notched out underneath (open) from the front of the hull to the back of the hull like a big open space until 1/3 back or so. I do recall it was referred to many times as a "Sunkist Tunnel Hull" is what I know and recall. Sort of like a picklefork but came to a point in the front. Did not have a "V" hull at all; or square-concave is the only other way I can describe it with my knowledge of these boats. I hope this helps.
I just looked at a few pics of a Condor TX-19, and that has more of a "V" hull up front. The boat I am talking about was more like a true tunnel cut out down the center of the hull. When we acquired this hull back then, we were told there "were only four of them made like this" - and can't say for sure if any more were made like this or not. I heard it second hand, but later learned the other three hulls like this one did not survive; "came apart?", etc.

Sleeper CP
08-25-2007, 08:22 AM
Hello ***boaters. After doing some searching around on the internet, I found this site, and this is my first post. I'm looking for some insight on a few questions below which are very important to me personally, and I'm hoping to gain some understanding and closure on a decades-old matter; thinking maybe a few boat history buffs here could help me with some understanding and history regarding the design, build, and quality of the Sunkist Tunnel Hull jet boats from 1979-1981. I think many of you will probably be able to figure out the answer to my real question at the root of all these questions below.
What were these boats designed for - recreation or race?
What are/were the strengths and limitations of these boats?
Were the hulls designed to handle over 1,000 hp?
Were they truly designed to run over 100mph?
Were they really designed to "fly on the water", just the jet in water?
Are there any of these boat hulls left in tact, still holding together?
I'll explain more later. Please trust me when I say this is a very hard and serious question I've needed to ask since 1981, and it's taken me until now to be able to do it. Thanks ahead for your time and responses. Duane
From your question I'll assume you are not an attorney:idea: but I'll also assume a family member was hurt or killed in such a boat:idea: that being said you may want to post your question in "Just Jets". But good luck.
Impatient1 has responded here, but there are a lot of Jet boater's in Just Jets that don't come to this "sand bar"
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

Baja Big Dog
08-25-2007, 08:28 AM
Come on CP..give the guy a break, dont you trust anyone??
Good catch though, I had to re read it to get betwen the lines!!!

Sleeper CP
08-25-2007, 08:35 AM
Come on CP..give the guy a break, dont you trust anyone??
Good catch though, I had to re read it to get betwen the lines!!!
Oh I only had to read it once and I would be truly sorry if someone in his family was killed in a "Race" boat. But Bill Scotten of California Performance boats didn't tell my brother and I to put a 1,000+ HP engine in our open bow CP, we did it on our own "free will" and if it ever comes apart it's not his fault it is called personal responsibility and high performance boating is or should be considered an "assumed risk sport".
Once again I am sorry if someone was killed or hurt by such a boat....1981 was along time ago, he must have been quite young.. I haven't checked his profile.. that would suck he's just looking for some answers to a very bad question I think:idea: :(
Sleeper CP
565" Ford, 1,000+ HP safely used since 1992:D

IMPATIENT 1
08-25-2007, 08:38 AM
Hello ***boaters. After doing some searching around on the internet, I found this site, and this is my first post. I'm looking for some insight on a few questions below which are very important to me personally, and I'm hoping to gain some understanding and closure on a decades-old matter; thinking maybe a few boat history buffs here could help me with some understanding and history regarding the design, build, and quality of the Sunkist Tunnel Hull jet boats from 1979-1981. I think many of you will probably be able to figure out the answer to my real question at the root of all these questions below.
What were these boats designed for - recreation or race?
What are/were the strengths and limitations of these boats?
Were the hulls designed to handle over 1,000 hp?
Were they truly designed to run over 100mph?
Were they really designed to "fly on the water", just the jet in water?
Are there any of these boat hulls left in tact, still holding together?
I'll explain more later. Please trust me when I say this is a very hard and serious question I've needed to ask since 1981, and it's taken me until now to be able to do it. Thanks ahead for your time and responses. Duane
yes to all the questions then. if its a true tunnel, it was built to perform stable at high speeds. most tunnel do 100 very easily and stable, i'm not familiar with the hull you've mentioned but basically all tunnels are meant to run over 100mph. yes they do fly, they trap air under the hull with decreases friction to the water. some tunnels were purposed built racers, some are lake boats built to handle heavy beatings from wakes, roller and so on.as far as recreation or race, i'd go with both.
sorry if you've lost someone dear to ya man, this is a dangerous hobby that should be placed right there with skydiving or any other hobby where the particpant knows full well that their life may be in danger.when i drive the shit outta my boat, i know full well each time i do it may be my last, which is the rush.

Sleeper CP
08-25-2007, 10:40 AM
Hello ***boaters. After doing some searching around on the internet, I found this site, and this is my first post. I'm looking for some insight on a few questions below which are very important to me personally, and I'm hoping to gain some understanding and closure on a decades-old matter; thinking maybe a few boat history buffs here could help me with some understanding and history regarding the design, build, and quality of the Sunkist Tunnel Hull jet boats from 1979-1981. I think many of you will probably be able to figure out the answer to my real question at the root of all these questions below.
What were these boats designed for - recreation or race?
What are/were the strengths and limitations of these boats?
Were the hulls designed to handle over 1,000 hp?
Were they truly designed to run over 100mph?
Were they really designed to "fly on the water", just the jet in water?
Are there any of these boat hulls left in tact, still holding together?
I'll explain more later. Please trust me when I say this is a very hard and serious question I've needed to ask since 1981, and it's taken me until now to be able to do it. Thanks ahead for your time and responses. Duane
I hate to be a cynic, but interesting questions and interesting profile(or lack thereof).
Note to Impatien1: Yes this is dangerous, I'm very excited about my bro and I getting our boat back on the water, but it is not without reservation. It will be faster than it ever was, more power, better pump, better hardware and we are both older with beautiful kids and wives to come home to. So we have to be more careful than before. You are right a lot like ski diving.
Sleeper CP

decooney
08-25-2007, 01:41 PM
IMP-1, Sleeper, Baja:
Yeah, I do kinda need a break, and I'll just share what I can remember.
No, I'm not an attorney, and yes, there is an unfortunate story. I'm not looking for anything other than understanding and closure from an old wound in my mind, with the hope of understanding at least part of what happened or why. I'll spill the beans so you guys can better understand where I'm coming from. Please don't jump to conclusions just because I made a new login today with a brand-new-1st-post, and did not complete a profile yet. I don't even have a boat now. I post on other large club forums with cars, and know the forum world well enough about what you are trying hint at. NO, not me. This for real. I just thought I'd lean on a few of you boat guys to see what might have happened, you see I was part of it but my memory won't allow me to remember to seperate the reality from the imagination of what I think happened during our incident. I have flashes of memory, but can't put it together. Understanding and sorting out what I think happened, might help me to sort of figure it out. Then again, maybe not, and I'll just try and close my brain on that chapter.
Story:
In 1981 I woke up in intensive care at a hospital on the East coast after four days of being out to wake up and learn that it was not a dream, I was pretty messed up and my Father didn't make it; he went down with the boat, and I was miraculously pulled out of the water with several injuries. As I woke up, I was blind, mostly deaf with blown out ear drums, fractured stirnum, broken angle, injured hip, and my heart had taken a beating with a major concussion. My Father drowned according to the final medical report and did not have broken bones like me. We had both seats in the boat for testing that week, and nowhere near prepared to do what we did; it was all really stupid after years of thinking about it. My seat came out with me. We were in our beloved Sunkist Tunnel hull boat testing..., "doing a run" a week before the High Point North Carolina boat drags. I had been visiting my Father for the Summer; as my mother and I lived in CA. He was ready to run this boat in the unlimited river jet class, I think it was called. Our boat was already going faster than the record at that time; by 9mph. He just was just thinking he would show up, and go break that record; from out of nowhere. His friend's flatbottom was a bit faster, but this Jet boat was known to be pretty fast during this time of the early 80s. His State Trooper friend clocked us on the radar gun to be sure, and it was going 124mph. The other unlimited river class boats were doing 110-115 or so at that time. Anyhow, you get the idea... I may have a few of the details screwed up, but it's the idea of the whole thing... It was around the same year we saw Eddie Hill run through the traps at over 229mph in his white boat. The Sunkist boat was a 400lb hull; He and I could pick it up easy one on each end. Seemed thin to me. It was a Sunkist hull with special race B-Jet pump; a 505CI 1100HP Methonol powered Chevy from the crew in Tennesee, with the latest (3 level stage) Nitrous kit. We had tested the 1st two Nitrous jets, and this was the last big jet for the big boost. The Jet pump itself was al blueprinted, and with special impeller, and nozzles. No part of the boat touched the water at speed, just the jet and plate, the boat litterally FLEW ABOVE THE WATER; in fact, as I recall it was about 2"-4" in front of the rear transom was in the water, the rest was like a flying hull is how I would describe it. Well, with the last hit of that Nitrous button, I guess we got the boost allright. Yes, running Alcohol with Nitrous back then. I can sort of see now in my older years that my Dad was actually a bit crazier or nuts than I thought; and I feel know in my older years just how stupid it was; but my Father was 38 years old then, and I was 17. What I know about my Father the most is us working each week to get 1mph here or there out of it, every week, rushing things back and forth the the airport between Maryland and Tennesee to get the latest blueprinted this or that part for the jet system and us working with his best friend to keep it all together. On that last run, all I can remember is being wide open, me looking over and him hitting the Nitrous button, (the last time I saw him) and the boat simply lifting on the left side and my side dropping with water hammering me in the face. Then my memory and thoughts go blank. It all went so fast. I don't know if we lifted and flipped over backwards or if it rolled in my side, or if the hull just came apart. I did have fiberglass in my hands and cuts on my legs all over as I tore out of the seat taking fiberglass with me somehow. Two days later when the Coast Guard found the wreckage, and pulled it up, the motor was still strapped to the rails, upside-down in the river, with the engine completely ripped out from the hull. The hull was in about 20 major pieces and about 50 other small pieces or so. I only have one picture to look at that someone took to describe what was left. My father's friend later went through the motor blaming himself thinking the motor let go or locked up, and the motor was reportedly fine, with no internal issues. The last clues in my head are him hitting the nitrous button and the result being a boat that literally came apart into a lot of pieces. The boat kicked such a big rooster tail that nobody behind us could see what exactly happened, and a lady across the river was looking through binoculars and reported the boat "sort of flew up" whatever that means. I try hard to close my eyes and remember what actually happend. I get bits of flashes here and there. I did have severe memory loss for a while after the incident, and over the years, sort of get pieces and parts back. I was a bit luckier than my Father, and recovered almost 100%, but still have the memories of my Father who I was just getting to know all over again at 17 years of age. I sort of never got that chance, but do think of our moments and weekends in that boat that he loved so much. This is what it's about, and just wanting to confirm just how outside of the box all of it really was back then. Yeah, and I kinda miss my Dad, he was a cool guy. I hope this makes better sense now. Thanks. Duane

Sleeper CP
08-25-2007, 01:58 PM
Once again I am sorry if someone was killed or hurt by such a boat....1981 was along time ago, he must have been quite young.. I haven't checked his profile.. that would suck he's just looking for some answers to a very bad question I think:idea: :(
Sleeper CP
565" Ford, 1,000+ HP safely used since 1992:D
Sorry to hear that. It's kind of what I figured. More than likely the 400 lbs. boat blew over backwards or stuffed your corner of the boat into a wake or something. I sorry your father put you in that position, a 110 let alone 124 mph 400 lbs 1,100 hp jet boat is a serious a potentially dangerous machine.
Just curious, were either one of you wearing vests?
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover
Jon

pw_Tony
08-25-2007, 02:19 PM
Man your story really just slapped me in the face when it comes to fast stuff.
I am really sorry for your loss back then, but know you at least affected one person just from a forum post

HDF WATERDOG
08-25-2007, 02:27 PM
Sorry for your loss.
Sounds like the boat was fast, maybe to fast. You don't mention a lenght so I'll guess 17, 18, 19. 400 lb lay up is pretty light. Tunnel, Semi-Tunnel, air catcher. At those speeds catching air is a given. Sounds like a true accident. BTW, the pearl white Eddie Hill boat was called "The Texan", It also had a black texas star on the deck.

decooney
08-25-2007, 03:15 PM
Gents,
Thanks for the kind comments. I guess it's really a story of paying the price and not really understanding the implications of what we were doing in 1981.
The Sunkist was either a 18' or 19', but for some reason I keep thinking 18. If you took a flashlight from the inside of the hull and shined it into the glass, you could see the light through the other side. No, we were not wearing helmets or the appropriate gear including the correct life vest for me (I almost didn't make it, but was saved by a crab boat) It probaby could have made the difference between certain life and death for my Father, but he actually got tied up in the wreckage and got pulled in with the boat; as I understand it. And, YES, on the Eddie HIll topic, it was the Texan for sure. Man, that was the most amazing two passes one could ever see; and I can tell you first hand, that boat did NOT sound like the other Nitro boats; maybe a tad more Nitro that day intentionally or unintentionally. Anyhow, I'll take what you guys said... we were just going too fast for that type of boat. And I think the theory stated here about the boat rolling to one side and catching a wake just seems more correct than anything I've heard yet; I sort of recall that being the case but really still don't remember exactly. Thanks again.

DelawareDave
08-25-2007, 05:18 PM
I will add a little to this. I own a 1981 Sunkisst tunnel boat. Title lists it as 19'. And yes it is a very lightweight hull. I would imagine it was meant to be a race boat. Last 2 letters of the HIN are TR. Maybe for "Tunnel Race"?
Sorry to hear your story. It sounds so akin to other stories of someone pushing the envelope to the limits and beyond. Sad to hear of tragedy for some, when others succeed.

decooney
08-25-2007, 07:25 PM
Delaware Dave,
That's it, just like yours on your avatar. Same boat, exactly, but his was Red. Even the picture of the two people on your Avatar at that angle is like stepping back in time for me. The only difference is his had a giant fiberglass scoop perched on top of the two 1350 Dominator Alcohol carbs; like you see on the some of the dragster cars from that era. I was in the boat at 100 to 104mph on multiple occassions. It was very smooth and controlled at that speed, and even seemed to like a little chop in the water for whatever reason. Once we started moving up in the 110-115mph+ range the whole behavior of the boat and things started to change...it just seemed to get scary obtaining that last 10% into the 120s and that term was short lived. As for "success", in my father's case, it was all about going faster on any given Sunday after a long week's worth of work. In the end there was a payment for that success of speed in that boat. I bet if we'd kept it under 80 and just used it for recreational use, he'd still be here today. Our boating and racing it about was a huge part of my life back then, and it all stopped there. It's great to see all the neat pictures of these boats here; never stopped loving the boats!
__________________________________________________ ______
Oh well, thanks for listening you guys, it's helping. Duane

Sleeper CP
08-25-2007, 07:45 PM
Duane,
Once again sorry for your lose:( . I have a friend with a 400 lbs youngblood we call the boat "liquid Fiberglass" . I wont ride in it over 85, as you set in it at that speed you can see the dash flex and one side of the boat will flex up and be higher than the other side. I'll keep to my CP Gullwing thank you.
Pushing the envelope is one thing, walking on a tightrope with out a safety net is something different that sounds like what you dad was doing.Every thing has a limit.
Good luck to you.
Jon
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover, 1,000+ HP safely used since 1993:D

Cheyenne372
08-26-2007, 06:06 AM
:... As for "success", in my father's case, it was all about going faster on any given Sunday after a long week's worth of work..."
"...In the end there was a payment for that success of speed in that boat...."
Duane:
I too am sorry for your loss and the memories that you have that make you continue to wonder to this day, but I believe that you have answered your own questions with the two sentences that you posted.
I was around drag boat racing in the early 80's and you are correct, things were hugely different back then, but as I have matured, I can't imagine a dad taking his own kid in a boat at those speeds....for ANY reason.....not that when I was 21 in 1981 that I would not have given anything to go for a ride in one of these things!!!!
The first sentence that I quoted above is one of the reasons that I race my boat today. When I mash the throttle, I am never as calm and scared at the same time as at that moment. That's something I don't get with my business and something that only drag boat racing has been able to give me.
And your second sentence clearly sums up, at least to me, that there is a time and place to "write the check" for that payment you talk about....and that time or place is NOT AT THE LAKE.....but at a sanctioned event so that proper Rescue personnel and medical staff are there in case something goes wrong.
I hope the comments you receive on this thread help.

decooney
08-30-2007, 08:20 PM
All, Yes - Thank You. It does help. I sort of filed it away for awhile, and out of nowhere, it sort of hit me all again after looking at boats myself. I live on the opposite coast now and have ever since that incident in 1981.
It has not kept me from experiencing life though; but it does put a caution reminder over my own head any time I hit my own throttle pedal. Since 1998 solid, I've built, driven, tracked, put on events, and abosolutely drive and live the world of 427 Cobras; it's in my blood too. There are some squirley parallels, if you know what I mean and I'm doing my best to make sure the rubber side stays down :)
Thanks Again.
Duane

decooney
08-30-2007, 08:23 PM
All, Yes - Thank You. It does help. I sort of filed it away for awhile, and out of nowhere, it sort of hit me all again after looking at boats myself. I live on the opposite coast now and have ever since that incident in 1981.
It has not kept me from experiencing life though; but it does put a caution reminder over my own head any time I hit my own throttle pedal. Since 1998 solid, I've built, driven, tracked, put on events, and abosolutely drive and live the world of 427 Cobras; it's in my blood too. I come across old drag boats on an occasion because I got into Ford FE engines as a result of Cobras, and there enlies the linkage between the two worlds. There are some squirley parallels, if you know what I mean and I'm doing my best to make sure the rubber side stays down :)
Thanks Again.
Duane

decooney
08-30-2007, 08:25 PM
All, Yes - Thank You. It does help. I sort of filed it away for awhile, and out of nowhere, it sort of hit me all again after looking at boats myself recently. I live on the opposite coast now and have ever since that incident in 1981.
That loss has not kept me from experiencing life though; but it does put a caution reminder over my own head any time I hit my own throttle pedal. Since 1998 solid, I've built, driven, tracked, put on events, and abosolutely drive and live the world of 427 Cobras; it's in my blood too. I come across old drag boats on an occasion because I got into Ford FE engines as a result of Cobras, and there enlies the linkage between the two worlds. I've kept my interest low about going too fast in a straight line for too long and try to keep it in the corners instead which helps to scrub off some speed; or that's what I tell myself. There are some squirley parallels to boats in a 90" wheel base high-horsepower car, if you know what I mean, and I'm doing my very best to help keep the rubber side down :)
Thanks Again.
Duane