Need handgun advice

[Magic34]

I want to purchase a .40 handgun in the near future. My main purpose is for security when at home and/or when traveling in the truck and in the forest on the Rhino.
I will probably do some recreational shooting at a range 2-3 times per year.
I plan on have 2 different safes. 1 for the gun and 1 for the ammo. They will be on the highest shelf in the house, and locked in the safe any time when not in actual use. The only way my kids coudl get to it is to pull out a 6 foot ladder, know exactly where to go since you cant see it from the top of the shelp (fairly deep), and know the codes to each safe. I'm want to be as safe as possible.
What suggestions do yo have with which make/model to get? The more safety the better. I will also probably install that tactical flash light on it as well. What I didn't like about the glocks is that the safety was in the trigger. Didn't feel safe is it got into the wrong hands.
I dont need the biggest and baddest gun either. 1 that shoots straigt at a good distance and is easy to handle. I want the best for the money.
Any other safety/handling suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[MR HARLEY]

Any of the Springfield Armory XD models.
Own 2 of them (.40) and (.45 compact) planning on getting my 3rd in a few weeks here, Sub-compact 9mm.

[ChumpChange]

I just called up my buddy at LAPD this weekend for the same reason. I'll get the 45 as always wanted but at the same time get a 9 for the wife's use when I'm not home.

[AZJD]

I want to purchase a .40 handgun in the near future. My main purpose is for security when at home and/or when traveling in the truck and in the forest on the Rhino.
I will probably do some recreational shooting at a range 2-3 times per year.
I plan on have 2 different safes. 1 for the gun and 1 for the ammo. They will be on the highest shelf in the house, and locked in the safe any time when not in actual use. The only way my kids coudl get to it is to pull out a 6 foot ladder, know exactly where to go since you cant see it from the top of the shelp (fairly deep), and know the codes to each safe. I'm want to be as safe as possible.
What suggestions do yo have with which make/model to get? The more safety the better. I will also probably install that tactical flash light on it as well. What I didn't like about the glocks is that the safety was in the trigger. Didn't feel safe is it got into the wrong hands.
I dont need the biggest and baddest gun either. 1 that shoots straigt at a good distance and is easy to handle. I want the best for the money.
Any other safety/handling suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Go to the Scottsdale gun club and start shooting. All guns are different, and some cater to people differently. Find what is comfortable for you. Remember, you get what you pay for.

[Jbb]

Colt 1991 A1......45..........and a triggerlock...

[AZJD]

I just called up my buddy at LAPD this weekend for the same reason. I'll get the 45 as always wanted but at the same time get a 9 for the wife's use when I'm not home.
Wife should be shooting a .45
A 9mm won't stop a tweaker that is hellbent on harming her.

[mondorally]

Unless you've made up your mind on the .40, I would seriously consider getting a revolver.
A) For home defense it never jams, no fumbling with mags in the night, no issues with mag springs getting weak from lack of use, and (especially the hammerless ones) extremely simple to use.
B) You can load them with snake shot for the Rhino trips.
-Justin

[EmpirE231]

make sure you don't take the same safety course this guy did
http://break.com/index/shooter-almost-takes-out-cameraman.html (rick roll safe)

[Froggystyle]

I couldn't recommend an H&K USP .45 full frame any higher. I have shot lots of guns, and for your purpose it absolutely cannot be beat.
It has a rail integrated system for a tac-light in front, they make a red-dot laser for the recoil spring tube, it has an awesome safety/de-cocking lever, has the best tactical triger pull on the market and a great break. Not to mention, they actually have a magazine lockout in the rear (which I hate on the new guns) that prevent mags from even being loaded without a key. Good kid-safety item.
.45 cal is slower than a .40 or a 9mm, and has less penetrating power for use in the home. Home protection rounds are available readily for them, and you can essentially put birdshot in the first three rounds and step up to truncated-cone hollowpoints after that. It is also +P compatible for shooting TZZ rounds or Israeli loads. Federal makes a Hydra-shok that has a 230 grain bullet that is shooting over 900 fps off the shelf. Massive, massive impact and damage and greatly increased hydrostatic damage with that large of a round at that speed. Considering that the average .45 rounds is in the 150 grain range and 700 fps this is huge.

[Run_em_Hard]

Well my question to you Magic34 is what are you going to do if someone breaks into your house and your gun is locked up away from the ammo? Are you going to ask the perp to give you 5 minutes to load your gun so you can shoot his ass? I am not trying to be a dick just trying to make you think:D
Mabey gun saftey should be a little higher on peoples minds instead of where a good place to hide them from the kids would be?:idea:

[disco_charger]

Unless you've made up your mind on the .40, I would seriously consider getting a revolver.
A) For home defense it never jams, no fumbling with mags in the night, no issues with mag springs getting weak from lack of use, and (especially the hammerless ones) extremely simple to use.
B) You can load them with snake shot for the Rhino trips.
-Justin
This is excellent advice.

[Mohave Vice]

I've been very happy with my HK USP .40. For home we designate wheel guns (revolver) .38, .357 and 12 guage

[Baja Big Dog]

On a budget, get the Ruger, no budget, get the Sig. I would avoid the Springfields, IM old fashion, I like a hammer that I can see. Get the decocker models, regardless of what you get shoot them and have fun, and join the NRA!!!!!
If you have kids, take them and teach them, take them to the same saftey courses, let them shoot and let them know guns are not only for killing, they can be fun!!!:D

[ChumpChange]

Wife should be shooting a .45
A 9mm won't stop a tweaker that is hellbent on harming her.
The sound of the slide cocking generally gets them out of the house.

[2Driver]

I got the Glock model 23 after a bunch of research. It's a 40 caliber in a compact but not subcompact size. It is just a great gun. I have gotten it totally filthy and it shoots like new. Same carry as a lot of LE.
Come up when you are free and we will go out by my place an shoot a box or 2. I just saw a the desert camo color at Cabelas and it is really cool.
BTW: Bring the vinyl cleaner with you :D
http://www.glockworld.com/glock_compact.htm#glock23
The .40 caliber defense rounds are good for lion, bear, assclowns. If an intruder comes in your house just get your family in a secure room and lock it. When the intruder starts to turn the door knob from the other side off load a mag into the door at various heights. Wait for thud sound then open to find stopped intruder.

[cdog]

Check out the Springfield Armory XD. I'd get a 9mm for your first hand gun. The XD comes with a case,lock,2mags,holster,loader and a mag holster. Sportmans wherehouse has them for $450-500. Get comfortable with the 9mm then go to a 45 or 10mm. Judging by your other toys I'd bet 5 years from now you'll have an arsinal. Welcome to the sickness.:D
Glocks are also great. My first handgun was my G17. Don't pay attention to the blowhards about the 9mm being underpowered. Shotplacement is key and the 9mm is a easy to use cal. with cheap ammo.

[Cole Trickle]

Any of the Springfield Armory XD models.
Own 2 of them (.40) and (.45 compact) planning on getting my 3rd in a few weeks here, Sub-compact 9mm.
Agreed...
I shot djunkies .40 last winter and really liked it. Very comfortable and I like the grip safety.
It also wasn't too much for Jen. (Not like the .357 long barell she shot...lol)
I will be picking one up soon:)

[Magic34]

Well my question to you Magic34 is what are you going to do if someone breaks into your house and your gun is locked up away from the ammo? Are you going to ask the perp to give you 5 minutes to load your gun so you can shoot his ass? I am not trying to be a dick just trying to make you think:D
Mabey gun saftey should be a little higher on peoples minds instead of where a good place to hide them from the kids would be?:idea:
In all my life, there have only been 2 times where I have felt a need to own a gun.
Both times, I would have ample time to get a gun out of the closet, 60 seconds plus. Secondly, in a situation like that where I felt I needed it, that extra times allowed me to thourghly calculate all of my options.
If someone sneaks into my home, they have 2 great danes to get passed. The dogs can slow them up for a minute.
I would have an additional clip stashed somewhere I could access it quickly, but it would be hidden well and only known to me.
Trust me, I am not going with the mentality of hiding it so my kids cant find it, but if there is an extra step of safety I can take, it will be done.

[Magic34]

Agreed...
I shot djunkies .40 last winter and really liked it. Very comfortable and I like the grip safety.
It also wasn't too much for Jen. (Not like the .357 long barell she shot...lol)
I will be picking one up soon:)
Group buy. I'll work the deal :D

[OGShocker]

I LOVE my XD-45! (http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php) Hi-Cap .45 you cannot beat it!

[djunkie]

Agreed...
I shot djunkies .40 last winter and really liked it. Very comfortable and I like the grip safety.
It also wasn't too much for Jen. (Not like the .357 long barell she shot...lol)
I will be picking one up soon:)
Ya I'm really happy with my Springfield XD .40. If I had Mikes money though I'd be looking at the Sig's or the HK's. :D :D
Now as for a side note, if its gonna be for home security I'll take a revolver over an auto any day. Or the shortbarreled Remington 870 that I have under my bed. :D :D
And yes, Jen handled the .40 pretty well. :D :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38003&stc=1&d=1188245915

[whiteworks]

for around the house somthing like this works well.
get the Sig also and have the wife back you up:D
http://hometown.aol.com/ipspics2/supershorty.jpg

[2Driver]

Well my question to you Magic34 is what are you going to do if someone breaks into your house and your gun is locked up away from the ammo? Are you going to ask the perp to give you 5 minutes to load your gun so you can shoot his ass? I am not trying to be a dick just trying to make you think:D
Mabey gun saftey should be a little higher on peoples minds instead of where a good place to hide them from the kids would be?:idea:
http://www.gunvault.com/ Best of both worlds IMO. The chances of someone coming in your house are 1 in a million but a loaded gun for a kid to find is flirting with disaster. Since the kid everything is locked up and accessible by me only

[Screemy1]

Unless you've made up your mind on the .40, I would seriously consider getting a revolver.
A) For home defense it never jams, no fumbling with mags in the night, no issues with mag springs getting weak from lack of use, and (especially the hammerless ones) extremely simple to use.
B) You can load them with snake shot for the Rhino trips.
-Justin
I second this one.... a hammerless revolver is the best, next to a shot gun of course.... but a revolver is the best home defense gun..... and if you ever need to kill somebody.... you do not have to worry about leaving shell casings behind:devil:

[Cole Trickle]

Group buy. I'll work the deal :D
I need to take the test and I am such an impulse buyer and hate waiting.
I have almost done it 10X but by the time I get the gun the trip everyone is taking there fire arms on is over:D

[STV_Keith]

First, as AZJD said, go to a range where you can rent/try everything they have and DO. Find what fits you the best, what you shoot the best with and what is the most comfortable.
Personally, I carry a Glock 27 subcompact .40, but have the Glock 22 full size .40 in my nightstand. I shoot better with the smaller gun for whatever reason (which goes against typical reasoning).
Once you have purchased said handgun, consider taking a class that teaches you how to use it, how to draw it, and how to deal with problems 2 & 3 after the fact. Problem 1 is surviving the fight...problems 2 & 3 are the civil and criminal ramifications. Once you know problems 2 & 3 are there, and how big those hurdles are, you can make that mental line in the sand for when you will shoot and when you won't. You WANT that already pre-determined so that you are not second guessing yourself at the time when you should be acting.
You can consider a class like the 4-day defensive handgun class at Front Sight. A very good class. Here's the info: http://www.frontsight.com/courses/defensive-handgun-training-course.asp
You will see it listed as a $2000 class, but you can do some searching on the internet and find certificates for around $100 that you can use for your tuition to the class. Makes it quite affordable.

[Bense468]

The sound of the slide cocking generally gets them out of the house.
Lol okay. What happens when it doesn't? your going to put holes through em and they keep coming. I'm a fan of .45's or at least a .40. I have a P226 stainless sig .40, colt 1911 govt. .45's, and a wilson. Revolvers are nice for ladies. Snub nose 357 or you can shoot 38 specials.
You want home security though, get an 870 with a home security barrel, Then you can buy an additional 28 or 30 barrel and go shoot trap or bird hunt when you want. Just a thought. If your gun's locked and your ammo's locked forget home security. I agree with locking your guns, but not the one you plan on using. Best advise is to teach your kids, teach them well, if you still don't feel comfortable there are classes for cheap that go over all this and your kids will have a whole new understanding. Join NRA and learn your gun, hunting laws. You can rent most guns from 6-10 bucks at local ranges. Recommended. Shoot it, just don't hold it in the store. Learn how to properly hold your gun, and how to diassemble and re-assemble, and have fun :D

[Cole Trickle]

Ya I'm really happy with my Springfield XD .40. If I had Mikes money though I'd be looking at the Sig's or the HK's. :D :D
Now as for a side note, if its gonna be for home security I'll take a revolver over an auto any day. Or the shortbarreled Remington 870 that I have under my bed. :D :D
And yes, Jen handled the .40 pretty well. :D :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38003&stc=1&d=1188245915
I really liked the Revolver too....
Damm accurate gun:)

[djunkie]

for around the house somthing like this works well.
get the Sig also and have the wife back you up:D
http://hometown.aol.com/ipspics2/supershorty.jpg
Isn't that barrel just a tad short for being legal? :D :D

[Bense468]

http://www.gunvault.com/
I have this safe and it works decent for your hand guns. Quick access if needed.

[djunkie]

Honestly Mike. Being as you have 2 little ones in the house I'd throw out the idea of having one for home security. Just get yourself a nice Louisville Slugger to keep next to your bed. :D

[Magic34]

Honestly Mike. Being as you have 2 little ones in the house I'd throw out the idea of having one for home security. Just get yourself a nice Louisville Slugger to keep next to your bed. :D
I have that already and I am a power hitter. :D I can hit 350' :)

[Magic34]

http://www.gunvault.com/ Best of both worlds IMO. The chances of someone coming in your house are 1 in a million but a loaded gun for a kid to find is flirting with disaster. Since the kid everything is locked up and accessible by me only
That is awesome. Is there any way to have it malfunction?

[ChumpChange]

I have that already and I am a power hitter. :D I can hit 350' :)
Is that just on your Nintendo Wii? :D

[AZJD]

I have that already and I am a power hitter. :D I can hit 350' :)
So could Reggie Jackson, but he also struck out 2597 times...:idea:
Don't miss!

[Magic34]

Is that just on your Nintendo Wii? :D
No, I am 550+ on that. :D
One thing I could always do was hit. I was slow as sh*t, so I had to hit it far. For some reason, I sucked at running and I wasn't fat.

[2Driver]

That is awesome. Is there any way to have it malfunction?
I have had mine for 5 years and I am in and out of it a fair bit. It has been flawless. The only way to have it mess up is if you make too complicated of a combo and mess up the key strokes attempting to open your own safe
In other words you can have 1,2,3 or 4 fingers in your combination settings or a mix thereof. Making it too hard of a combination is like trying to play a diffficult tune on the piano in the dark .... you will mess it up. Mess opening the safe and it beeps at you and you get a second try. Mess up a 3rd time and it locks you out.
Keep it fairly simple but impossible to figure out and you are good to go. You can bolt it to the floor by your bed and reach over at night and wham the door flys open and you are already locked and loaded.

[Magic34]

The .40 caliber defense rounds are good for lion, bear, assclowns. If an intruder comes in your house just get your family in a secure room and lock it. When the intruder starts to turn the door knob from the other side off load a mag into the door at various heights. Wait for thud sound then open to find stopped intruder.
This is my exact thoughts. Actually, we have done that, without the gun though. People were banging on my door and someone was in the backyard. I stayed silent so we didn't give our position up in the house. Locked ourselves in the closet and called 911. Flashlights were shining through my windows and all. I have never been so scared.
In the end, it was the cops anyways. Someone reported see 2 people go in my backyard and the police responded. Now, in the end this was a happy story, but what if they wanted to come in and beat the police there?

[Flyinbowtie]

A one size fits all weapon may not work for you and your wife.
The semi-autos require wrist strength to control them, a weak wrist can cause them to malfunction.
When I was Rangmaster/Armorer, we had two females and a male that could not control the .40, let alone a .45.
A large claiber handgun that cannot be handled by the shooter will not put rounds on the target.
You both need to get to a range and fire several weapons, determine what you are comfortable with, and then make your purchase(s) personally I like the Sig-Sauer, but I'd bring an H/K, and a couple of revolvers.
The gunvault safe works well for handguns.
The best home defense weapon is a shotgun, IMHO.

[3 daytona`s]

Isn't that barrel just a tad short for being legal? :D :D
an AOW then registered and licensed.

[AZJD]

This is my exact thoughts. Actually, we have done that, without the gun though. People were banging on my door and someone was in the backyard. I stayed silent so we didn't give our position up in the house. Locked ourselves in the closet and called 911. Flashlights were shining through my windows and all. I have never been so scared.
In the end, it was the cops anyways. Someone reported see 2 people go in my backyard and the police responded. Now, in the end this was a happy story, but what if they wanted to come in and beat the police there?
I have always said that anyone entering my house will be leaving on a gourney. This is a decision that has to be made under extreme preassure. You need to be in control at all times and not afraid. I have no hesitations with shooting an intruder, or someone who intends to do harm to me or my family. That being said, you cannot be trigger happy.
Imagine shooting a few rounds out the windows at one of those officers.....:confused:
It is a fine line between being scared and protection. You have to be totally sure before you pull the trigger. I could live with killing a bad guy, but not a drunk friend that decided they needed to crash on your porch for the night.
I had a buddies girlfriend come to the house looking for him at 3am. She knocked and I didn't hear it so she came to the side gate by my bedroom. I woke, saw the shadow, unholstered and went into protect mode. She came to the back door as I was coming around the corner. This whole time I don't know who it is, just that someone is in my backyard. She then tries the door knob, at which time the safety comes off. Locked! An arm comes through my dog door, reaching for the door knob! Finger on the trigger and ready to fire. I am standing there ready to fire, trying to decide weather or not to wait for the door to open or put a few through the door, when she says, "don't shoot!" I hear the girls voice and she says, "it's me *******!" I was pissed! I was also relieved! I had just about shot a friend..........
It will make you think twice about just unleashing a few rounds with out visual confirmation.

[eliminatedsprinter]

I had a Sig Saur 229 in .40 for several years (it was stolen from my home) and I practice shot with it 3-4 days a week and for about a year I shot in monthly practical shooting matches at my pistol club. It was a fine gun and it shot well, but it was not the super fantastic gun that the gun mags made it out to be. It shot no better han a glock (and not quite as well as my Springfield 1911A1) and when the slide got a bit dry or a bit dirty it was prone to jam. It is not a gun that you can just leave in a lock box for home defense. Unless you want to shoot and or lube the slide often, you are better off with a revolver.

[Froggystyle]

Finger on the trigger and ready to fire. I am standing there ready to fire, trying to decide weather or not to wait for the door to open or put a few through the door, when she says, "don't shoot!" I hear the girls voice and she says, "it's me Jordy!" I was pissed! I was also relieved! I had just about shot a friend..........
It will make you think twice about just unleashing a few rounds with out visual confirmation.
:D

[eliminatedsprinter]

P.S.
After owning 3 Sigs (I still have a 228 and a 230) and shooting most everything else. If I was starting out all over, and I wanted simi autos, I would just get Glocks (those funny squarish grips fit well in my hand and they are very reliable) and for home defense I would get a Colt Python, since it is a reliable revolver and it has the sweetist out of the box, stock, double action trigger pull I have felt.

[CMac]

Going to IDPA shoot tonight. Come try my Kimber and Sig's.

[Cole Trickle]

I have always said that anyone entering my house will be leaving on a gourney. This is a decision that has to be made under extreme preassure. You need to be in control at all times and not afraid. I have no hesitations with shooting an intruder, or someone who intends to do harm to me or my family. That being said, you cannot be trigger happy.
Imagine shooting a few rounds out the windows at one of those officers.....:confused:
It is a fine line between being scared and protection. You have to be totally sure before you pull the trigger. I could live with killing a bad guy, but not a drunk friend that decided they needed to crash on your porch for the night.
I had a buddies girlfriend come to the house looking for him at 3am. She knocked and I didn't hear it so she came to the side gate by my bedroom. I woke, saw the shadow, unholstered and went into protect mode. She came to the back door as I was coming around the corner. This whole time I don't know who it is, just that someone is in my backyard. She then tries the door knob, at which time the safety comes off. Locked! An arm comes through my dog door, reaching for the door knob! Finger on the trigger and ready to fire. I am standing there ready to fire, trying to decide weather or not to wait for the door to open or put a few through the door, when she says, "don't shoot!" I hear the girls voice and she says, "it's me *******!" I was pissed! I was also relieved! I had just about shot a friend..........
It will make you think twice about just unleashing a few rounds with out visual confirmation.
Thats scary.....
I don't know what I would have done since I don't have un invited drunk girls showing up at my house in the middle of the night...lol
What was she wearing?:D:D
I installed sensor lights on both sides of my house and you would have to be in my back yard for them to go off. I probably would have instructed said person that I was holding a live firearm and that i have been trained to use it and that they need to speak up to avoid being considered a threat.

[Magic34]

Thats scary.....
I don't know what I would have done since I don't have un invited drunk girls showing up at my house in the middle of the night...lol
What was she wearing?:D:D
I installed sensor lights on both sides of my house and you would have to be in my back yard for them to go off. I probably would have instructed said person that I was holding a live firearm and that i have been trained to use it and that they need to speak up to avoid being considered a threat.
That was my problem with the night I thought someone was trying to get in. I would have taken an approach like that as long as I had something in my hand to protect myself. I didn't and it was a helpless feeling.

[STV_Keith]

I had a buddies girlfriend come to the house looking for him at 3am. She knocked and I didn't hear it so she came to the side gate by my bedroom. I woke, saw the shadow, unholstered and went into protect mode. She came to the back door as I was coming around the corner. This whole time I don't know who it is, just that someone is in my backyard. She then tries the door knob, at which time the safety comes off. Locked! An arm comes through my dog door, reaching for the door knob! Finger on the trigger and ready to fire. I am standing there ready to fire, trying to decide weather or not to wait for the door to open or put a few through the door, when she says, "don't shoot!" I hear the girls voice and she says, "it's me *******!" I was pissed! I was also relieved! I had just about shot a friend..........
A few expletives and a warning that you are armed would probably get an intruder to flee (thwarting the need to shoot) or a friend to start screaming who they are.

[Cole Trickle]

That was my problem with the night I thought someone was trying to get in. I would have taken an approach like that as long as I had something in my hand to protect myself. I didn't and it was a helpless feeling.
Sick the scorpions on them!!!!:jawdrop: :sqeyes: :D

[2Driver]

Also, since your wife can back a trailer down the ramp she should be able to handle a gun.
I took my wife for an evening lesson and shooting session with this group and she had a lot of fun. http://www.azwsa.com/
She was pretty jacked after the session and learned not to be so apprehensive around a gun. We didn't join the club as we are not that into it, but she can get her permit through them ( you too I guess) and get some good advice and sessions in.

[Froggystyle]

I probably would have instructed said person that I was holding a live firearm and that i have been trained to use it and that they need to speak up to avoid being considered a threat.
"Car 91.. Do you need my assistance?"

[PaPaG]

I like the Sig Pro in .40
Forget about security @ home...by the time you get through your security--if you needed!---whatever would be over--- in LESS THAN A MINUTE !
Take the cc course.
Exactly what he said :D

[rivercrazy]

If you go the revolver route, I'd go with a 357 magnum. With a 125 grain hollowpoint, its the #1 rated one-shot stopper on the market in the ligher handgun segment.
Personally, I like 9MM for semi autos. With a cor-bon +P+ round, its proven to be very effective. And recoil versus a 45 or 40 is easier to handle. This equates to more acccuracy.
I like the Berreta personally. Its not that expense, very accurate, and has excellent trigger pull characteristics.

[Screaming Pete]

everyone recommands what they are familer with and thats cool, i would go to a gun store and handle and many as you can because they all feel different and you have to get what fits your hand the best. my .02

[GUGS102]

I second this one.... a hammerless revolver is the best, next to a shot gun of course.... but a revolver is the best home defense gun..... and if you ever need to kill somebody.... you do not have to worry about leaving shell casings behind:devil:
I'd agree with the revolver. I have a hammerless 38. It's small enough I can put it in my pack when riding in the mountains and it's a point and shoot situation in the even the wife needs to use it. I also have a Ruger 9 which I really like too. It is just too big to lug around while riding a bike in the mountains.
Gugs

[Kilrtoy]

Unless you've made up your mind on the .40, I would seriously consider getting a revolver.
A) For home defense it never jams, no fumbling with mags in the night, no issues with mag springs getting weak from lack of use, and (especially the hammerless ones) extremely simple to use.
B) You can load them with snake shot for the Rhino trips.
-Justin
That is the best advice on here

[Baja Big Dog]

Is the wife shooting? Go with the revolver, .357 for more flexibility.
I used to sell the "Ultimate home defence load" sold them and people loved them, they were a Speer 150 gr wad cutter, .357 case, with the large hole for fire control on the bottom, this round turned around turned into a huge hollow point. Its claim to fame was it wouldn't go through a 2X4, and if you had kids in the house it was comforting knowing that a stray round had less chance of hurting someone not intended to be the target. But when it hit a mass (human body) the huge hollow point would open up and put a huge hurt on the target (the scum bag!).

[Magic34]

Sick the scorpions on them!!!!:jawdrop: :sqeyes: :D
I picked up a new blacklight and the past 4 nights, I have killed probably 35-40 total.
The bug man sucks. I am on my own killing spree. I'll take video one night.

[Kilrtoy]

I have always said that anyone entering my house will be leaving on a gourney. This is a decision that has to be made under extreme preassure. You need to be in control at all times and not afraid. I have no hesitations with shooting an intruder, or someone who intends to do harm to me or my family. That being said, you cannot be trigger happy.
Imagine shooting a few rounds out the windows at one of those officers.....:confused:
It is a fine line between being scared and protection. You have to be totally sure before you pull the trigger. I could live with killing a bad guy, but not a drunk friend that decided they needed to crash on your porch for the night.
I had a buddies girlfriend come to the house looking for him at 3am. She knocked and I didn't hear it so she came to the side gate by my bedroom. I woke, saw the shadow, unholstered and went into protect mode. She came to the back door as I was coming around the corner. This whole time I don't know who it is, just that someone is in my backyard. She then tries the door knob, at which time the safety comes off. Locked! An arm comes through my dog door, reaching for the door knob! Finger on the trigger and ready to fire. I am standing there ready to fire, trying to decide weather or not to wait for the door to open or put a few through the door, when she says, "don't shoot!" I hear the girls voice and she says, "it's me *******!" I was pissed! I was also relieved! I had just about shot a friend..........
It will make you think twice about just unleashing a few rounds with out visual confirmation.
That statement tells me you dont have what it takes, you just think you do.

[juicy noodle]

No matter what you buy, you have to be confident and know your weapon. After testing several models and making your purchase, I highly recommend going to a range more than 2-3 times a year. I have seen several law enforcement shootings under high stress that result in nobody being hit.
These are from cops with various years and training.
If you are going to have a weapon in the house, everyone should be qualified in the use of it, and also understand the danger. Several accidents happen because the parents don't take the time to teach their children.
As for safety, if your weapon is in a safe with a trigger lock there should be no worry, as long as junior does not have access to the weapons without supervision. For those that criticize that kids get into everything, maybe need to control their safe combo/keys a little better, and teach the kid the respect needed.

[squirt'nmyload]

"Unit 91.. Do you need my assistance?"
"quit counting your pubes we have a pursuit out here"
:D :D :D

[AZJD]

That statement tells me you dont have what it takes, you just think you do.
It's the internet! I can lie all I want.................

[Froggystyle]

It's the internet! I can lie all I want.................
Go ahead Justin, tell him about how you actualy pumped three rounds through the door before positively identifying your target...
AZJD-------->Steery eyed Kirra...

[Kilrtoy]

It's the internet! I can lie all I want.................
ARE you saying everything printed on here is NOT TRUE

[AZJD]

Go ahead Justin, tell him about how you actualy pumped three rounds through the door before positively identifying your target...
AZJD-------->Steery eyed Kirra...
Well if you must know the truth.....
I have been hesitant to pursue intruders lateley since having my little problem. You see I don't feel as safe doing so know ever since my bullet proof vest made me break out in a rash. Now that I cannot wear it I just sit at my desk and quiver with fear as they break in..........

[voodoomedman]

What I want to know is Kilrtoy and Froggystyle are on the same thread about guns and blows aren't being thrown? :D

[AZJD]

What I want to know is Kilrtoy and Froggystyle are on the same thread about guns and blows aren't being thrown? :D
That's because Wes has far superior training and would destroy Mr. Toy!

[Froggystyle]

What I want to know is Kilrtoy and Froggystyle are on the same thread about guns and blows aren't being thrown? :D
I have matured...

[Froggystyle]

That's because Wes has far superior training and would destroy Mr. Toy!
I wouldn't say that at all... just that we have different opinions on the recreational use of them, and my way is right and his is wrong... :D
In all honesty, there is a chance that my near total immersion in shooting, CQB and tactical use of weapons has clouded my judgement as to what appropriate safety concerns are or should be. I mean, I don't think a gun is clear and safe until you put your finger in the chamber and feel that there is no round there, and visually look down the magazine and don't see anything there...
There is a chance I am taking it all a little too seriously.

[cave]

Magic34, Caswells is here in Mesa. You can shoot whatever they have then make a decission from that. The same at Scottsdale but if your in Mesa It may be closer.
Indoor range. On-site gunsmith. Good people and they have been ther for a long time. No newbi BS

[revndave]

I just bought one of these.Pick it up Sept.3
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/164301_large.jpg

[revndave]

Guy said load it with .38 specials.The .357 will go through my walls and my neighbors if I miss.

[NorCalCat]

I want to purchase a .40 handgun in the near future. My main purpose is for security when at home and/or when traveling in the truck and in the forest on the Rhino.
I will probably do some recreational shooting at a range 2-3 times per year.
I plan on have 2 different safes. 1 for the gun and 1 for the ammo. They will be on the highest shelf in the house, and locked in the safe any time when not in actual use. The only way my kids coudl get to it is to pull out a 6 foot ladder, know exactly where to go since you cant see it from the top of the shelp (fairly deep), and know the codes to each safe. I'm want to be as safe as possible.
What suggestions do yo have with which make/model to get? The more safety the better. I will also probably install that tactical flash light on it as well. What I didn't like about the glocks is that the safety was in the trigger. Didn't feel safe is it got into the wrong hands.
I dont need the biggest and baddest gun either. 1 that shoots straigt at a good distance and is easy to handle. I want the best for the money.
Any other safety/handling suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
There are so may loads to choose form. All in all, it is what you feel comfortable. I have about 10 0different pistals, of all calibers. One thing is a versitile caliber. Also, a round that is easy to find in stores. If the Site hits the fan, you want to be able to find the rounds. From 9mm, .45, .44 mag, .40, 357, etc., my favorite is:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14799&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y
Again, personal preference. I am sure there is an indoor range in your area that rents all kinds of pistals.
In my opinion the most fun is the S&W .44 Mag. But the most versitile is the 686.
Just my $.02

[rivercrazy]

I wouldn't say that at all... just that we have different opinions on the recreational use of them, and my way is right and his is wrong... :D
In all honesty, there is a chance that my near total immersion in shooting, CQB and tactical use of weapons has clouded my judgement as to what appropriate safety concerns are or should be. I mean, I don't think a gun is clear and safe until you put your finger in the chamber and feel that there is no round there, and visually look down the magazine and don't see anything there...
There is a chance I am taking it all a little too seriously.
Based on what your saying here - I agree with you 100%. A gun owner should do everything possible to ensure no accidents occur. And then re-check it again!

[Classic Daycruiser]

I want to purchase a .40 handgun in the near future. My main purpose is for security when at home and/or when traveling in the truck and in the forest on the Rhino.
I will probably do some recreational shooting at a range 2-3 times per year.
I plan on have 2 different safes. 1 for the gun and 1 for the ammo. They will be on the highest shelf in the house, and locked in the safe any time when not in actual use. The only way my kids coudl get to it is to pull out a 6 foot ladder, know exactly where to go since you cant see it from the top of the shelp (fairly deep), and know the codes to each safe. I'm want to be as safe as possible.
What suggestions do yo have with which make/model to get? The more safety the better. I will also probably install that tactical flash light on it as well. What I didn't like about the glocks is that the safety was in the trigger. Didn't feel safe is it got into the wrong hands.
I dont need the biggest and baddest gun either. 1 that shoots straigt at a good distance and is easy to handle. I want the best for the money.
Any other safety/handling suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
The best protection at home is a dog...two of them.
As for your truck....Tinted glass, a full tank of gas, and body armour.
In the woods get a good knife, and a mini 14 .223 ranch rifle with a 30 round clip. You want to make sure that bear feels as many bullet before he's tearing your heart out. :jawdrop:

[Kilrtoy]

What I want to know is Kilrtoy and Froggystyle are on the same thread about guns and blows aren't being thrown? :D
That is because Wes's view is that of a trained killer,
Mine is from a civilian's point of view on what would be best for an untrained person looking to defend his castle.
My opinion. I have turned down the glock 40 cal, twice now. I will stay with my Beretta 92FS and continue to perfect my abilities with that weapon.
a revolver is a no brainer in a life altering situation...

[77charger]

too many choices.The hks are nice i myself prefer the 1911 in .45acp.If i were to buy another handgun the Hk would probably be my choice for an auto besides another 1911 but i am more likely to buy another 44 mag since i do miss my old one now that i can reload all my own ammo for every gun i own so it makes it cheap to shoot :D
go to a range and try different guns out and see what fits and you are comfy with there are some guns that dont cost as much and can shoot very good.No matter the make the gun is only as good as the person shooting it.For an auto it will be good to get to know how to use the gun learn waht to do if you get a jam,stove pipe,short cycle,etc all these can happen to any auto and your life can depend on how you react to them.

[Kilrtoy]

Well if you must know the truth.....
I have been hesitant to pursue intruders lateley since having my little problem. You see I don't feel as safe doing so know ever since my bullet proof vest made me break out in a rash. Now that I cannot wear it I just sit at my desk and quiver with fear as they break in..........
OMG, that was so clever and ingenious, I almost forgot to laugh.
The difference is I aint scared to pull the trigger, unlike your Im in protection mode, with the fockin safety on, NICE HAMMER YOU WERE CARRYING

[77charger]

.
My opinion. I have turned down the glock 40 cal, twice now. I will stay with my Beretta 92FS and continue to perfect my abilities with that weapon.
a revolver is a no brainer in a life altering situation...
the glocks it seems you either like them or hate them.I hate them dont like the triggers.They do shoot well though.I think the 92fs is a great gun too IMO often overlooked these days
But then i am a 1911 guy use to use it in 3 gun matches even though it only held 8 rounds it held up well to the hi caps just need a few more mags.:) :)
besides i was real strong with the rifle part (ar15 and hand loads)

[USCFAN]

Any of the Springfield Armory XD models.
Own 2 of them (.40) and (.45 compact) planning on getting my 3rd in a few weeks here, Sub-compact 9mm.
I own a .40 and it is a great gun. Was actually looking at a glock before this and after research decided to go with the Springfield Armory.

[AZJD]

OMG, that was so clever and ingenious, I almost forgot to laugh.
The difference is I aint scared to pull the trigger, unlike your Im in protection mode, with the fockin safety on, NICE HAMMER YOU WERE CARRYING
It is a nice hammer. Para Ordinance P-13 .45 Auto
And again, I was in protect mode aswell, but I guess your protect mode and mine are two totally different things..... see below
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159442

[Kilrtoy]

It is a nice hammer. Para Ordinance P-13 .45 Auto
And again, I was in protect mode aswell, but I guess your protect mode and mine are two totally different things..... see below
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159442
What a close analogy you have there sparky.
Safeties are for people who have no clue how to manipulate a weapon and are unsure of their abilities.

[BADBLOWN572]

Again, it all comes down to what you are comfortable with. As a home protection, I also agree on a revolver. As an overall gun, my favorite is the H/K USP .45. The .40 is also a GREAT gun. I just prefer shooting the .45. I have had a Glock, Sig, Beretta, Taurus, etc... My H/K is still by far my favorite!!! Very comfortable feel & I have put probably 2,000 rounds through it and it has not given me a problem yet! :)

[AZJD]

What a close analogy you have there sparky.
Safetys are for people who have no clue how to manipulate a weapon and are unsure of their abilities.
It's a 1911 model. It has a thumb safety I can have off as quick as I can pull the trigger. Come by and I will show you..........
And apparently throttles to you are just like a safety!
Your almost predictable. You come on here trying to flex you 29k posts and get smacked around a bit, then come back acting a fool and trying to start shit for no other reason than to start it to save face for being an internet idiot. It's funny how we have mutual friends who all say your a totally different person away from the internet. Makes me laugh sometimes........
Continue on Kilr, the ball is in your court!

[voodoomedman]

Geez I go and make a joke and all this starts. Maybe next time I'll stick to the knock knock jokes.

[Kilrtoy]

It's a 1911 model. It has a thumb safety I can have off as quick as I can pull the trigger. Come by and I will show you..........
And apparently throttles to you are just like a safety!
Your almost predictable. You come on here trying to flex you 29k posts and get smacked around a bit, then come back acting a fool and trying to start shit for no other reason than to start it to save face for being an internet idiot. It's funny how we have mutual friends who all say your a totally different person away from the internet. Makes me laugh sometimes........
Continue on Kilr, the ball is in your court!
Then spin on by your friends(Jordy) house, who has been around here as long as I have been, BACK WHEN THERE WAS NO SANDBAR, and ask him why the sandbar was created.
Maybe then you and all the other internet tough guys, boat driving critics and handgun aficionado's will have a better understanding of what is going on here in the SANDBAR and learn how to read bewtween the lines...
And it is you I believe who has been starting it with me ....

[TRIMMIN]

I'd like to know who makes that shotgun whiteworks posted? I've got a 18" but I'd go for that one if I could. Personally I keep a SW Sigma 9MM in any car I'm driving with (2) 17 round clips. A SW 357 2" 5 shot under the pillow (I live in the sticks) and the 18" in the armiour. 22 rifle and pellet rifle in the garage for the varmints and a 410 Snake Charmer for ah the snakes! No kids so no worries. That whiteworks shotgun looks like the perfect gun for you 34.

[cave]

I personally like the Saiga-12
http://www.saiga-12.com/images/Large/Saiga_12K.jpg
Has that "ka klack" sound and spreads 10 rounds real quick. Home protection at its best

[AZJD]

Then spin on by your friends(Jordy) house, who has been around here as long as I have been, BACK WHEN THERE WAS NO SANDBAR, and ask him why the sandbar was created.
Maybe then you and all the other internet tough guys, boat driving critics and handgun aficionado's will have a better understanding of what is going on here in the SANDBAR and learn how to read bewtween the lines...
And it is you I believe who has been starting it with me ....
Ok I will stop now. I am sorry Kilr for being mean! I will be in time out.:D

[Froggystyle]

Safeties are for people who have no clue how to manipulate a weapon and are unsure of their abilities.
I am going to leave it at this... but I couldn't disagree with this statement more emphatically. In fact, I find the exact opposite to be true. People who are unsure of their weapons' condition, their own abilities and a general lack of tactical training tend to be opposed to safeties on weapons. I hate to keep going back to the proverbial "back when I was cool" statements about the teams,but you NEVER patrol, kick down doors, insert onto an oil platform, etc... without the safety on. Fact is, unless you are the point man, you don't even begin to put your thumb on the safety unless you are in a contact, have a target sighted and are actually pressing on the threat. This goes back to my "never have a finger in the triggerwell" dictum from threads gone past as well... Finger off the trigger, weapon on safe. De-cocked anytime you are doing anything.
Accidents happen. You trip, have someone grab your gun from a room next to you, your buddy falls into you from behind, you dink your head on a stairwell, slip, have your safety lanyard caught on an appendage as you jam through a passageway etc... Especially if you use your gun as a weapon without pulling the trigger. That nice "hammer" is one of the most brutal striking weapons you could possibly have, as many tangos in Iraq and Afghanistan have found out in recent years. A strike to the forehead with the three front points of your gun will make you absolutely incapacitated immediately.
As for positive target ID, you will never see me pulling the trigger on someone without being actually in fear of my life. I can handle most of what society can dig up without pulling a trigger. I certainly don't need a gun to deal with a drunk chick at 3:00am trying to find her boyfriend. Or a 15 year old trying to steal my stereo, or a crank-head out for some jewlery and cash.
And if you think I need to concern myself with how many rounds a PCP junkie will take as he rushes me... think again. I would imagine that 99% of armed intruders wouldn't know how to use a gun well enough to come close to shooting me. Both from an accuracy standpoint as well as a posturing standpoint. It is tough to shoot someone when you are busy trying to find where your throat went after it got ripped out. Getting shot by your own weapon would suck too. Violence of action and overwhelming response will subdue most would-be assailants.
Two of them is a different story, but I will more than likely be using my handgun as a striking weapon than as a pistol. Too much at stake, too much to lose.
Learn to protect yourself well enough with hand to hand and carrying a gun will seem extraneous. If someone has a gun, get trained well enough to take it from them. To me, carrying a gun is like walking around with a hammer... soon enough everything starts to look like a nail.
Off of my soapbox right now. But to close...
I use a safety every time I pick up a gun, and I choose to carry guns that have the most intuitive and easy to use safeties.

[Dave C]

question for the more experienced gun nuts.
what would be a reliable smaller gun to buy?
let's just say something more "transportable?" (I won't say "concealable") ;)
not necessarily a larger round.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I would also recomend a revoler( unless you have your heart set on a auto) they can only go bang when you pull the trigger, Any one can use them with small ammount of training( IE wife)
Now if you have your heart set on a auto, hk, sig, spring field XD are all great choices.

[YeLLowBoaT]

question for the more experienced gun nuts.
what would be a reliable smaller gun to buy?
let's just say something more "transportable?" (I won't say "concealable") ;)
not necessarily a larger round.
Smith J frame, you can have it in your front pocket and no one will know its there.

[GETSOME]

http://www.hkpro.com/usp40compa1.jpg
Cant go wrong with the H&K USP .45. I like the .45s also they have a better feel too me. And can reload them here at the house.:D

[Froggystyle]

question for the more experienced gun nuts.
what would be a reliable smaller gun to buy?
let's just say something more "transportable?" (I won't say "concealable") ;)
not necessarily a larger round.
Reliability is relative. Most guns made today with premium quality materials just don't have failures. I have put an honest 50,000 rounds through Sig's and H&K's and have never had a single jam or failure until the gun broke. Sigs frames break at about 10K, and the H&K gets loose at about the same but doesn't break. We will typically "shoot out" a brand new gun during a two week intensive CQB phase and get issued new weapons at the end of it for the next phase. That is a pretty good reliability ratio if you ask me.
The sub-compact H&K 9mm is very, very "transportable" ( ;) ) Especially if you chose to "transport" it in a holster in the small of your back. Great safety, de-cocking lever and strong trigger pull make it a phenomenal weapon, and lots of composite materials make it light and agile. Fits nice in your hand too...
Everyone is a brand-cheerleader, and it is monumentally easy to cheer for H&K since they are considered premium by any measure. I have yet to shoot an H&K weapon that I didn't consider the best weapon of it's type, from the MP5 to the G3 to the USP .45... nothing really comes close... if you like the way a double roller locking block shoots. ( not the handguns guys... just the others...)
That said, my dream gun is an accurized G3... 7.62 NATO with a collapsible stock....
http://world.guns.ru/assault/hk_g3ka4.jpg
Edit: Or the Galil MAR... 5.56 and bitchin!
http://world.guns.ru/assault/galil-mar.jpg

[Cole Trickle]

http://www.wholesaleknives.co.uk/wood_nunchucks.jpg
You don't even know I almost nun chucked you!!!:D

[gramps]

Whatever you decide to get remember you need to get very comfortable with it. You don't want to buy a gun you are not used to, lock it away and when you need it not remember how to use it. I'm a BIG fan of the .45, I carry one every day and shoot it at least once a week.
This is the gun..............
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/hwgramps/kimber.jpg
and this is the nasty bullet I use
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/hwgramps/thumb_XPBExpanded.jpg

[Magic34]

You don't even know I almost nun chucked you!!!:D
I am leaning towards the HK and Sig.
There is a place that has them about 15 mintues from me. I am going to check both out next week.

[Cole Trickle]

I am leaning towards the HK and Sig.
There is a place that has them about 15 mintues from me. I am going to check both out next week.
lucky ass AZ residents!!!
If I bought it today I wouldn't have it for 10 days:)
Hard to wrong with both of those guns.....

[Froggystyle]

lucky ass AZ residents!!!
If I bought it today I wouldn't have it for 10 days:)
Hard to wrong with both of those guns.....
Yeah, but if you bought it last year, you would have had it nearly a year by now... ;)

[Cole Trickle]

Yeah, but if you bought it last year, you would have had it nearly a year by now... ;)
lol.....I didn't want it last year;)

[gramps]

"If I bought it today I wouldn't have it for 10 days ................"
One of the things I like about Utah, I can walk in the store buy any gun (not fully auto) and carry it out. NO WAITING period for permit holders.

[Run_em_Hard]

"If I bought it today I wouldn't have it for 10 days ................"
One of the things I like about Utah, I can walk in the store buy any gun (not fully auto) and carry it out. NO WAITING period for permit holders.
I agree gramps, Utah does have its perks:D

[boats&bars]

Take a look at the Sig P-229 its a nice piece

[Mrs.Moose on the loose]

Well only my opinion, but Moose bought me a 357 Smith & Wesson 6 inch barrel.. I love it and I am very comfortable with it, more so than a Automatic. They sometimes require more thinking in a Emergency. I pack it when I travel, when I go hunting I always have it on my side, and I do use 38's and or 357 shells. Depending on where I am using it at, The 357 shells have a much bigger punch.
As far as the children, we have two daughters, teenagers now, but since birth they have been raised around guns, since we hunt and all. I do beleive in Gun Safes and trigger locks though. But I have never had our girls ever touch them unless they have asked and now that they are older, there aim is dead on..;) .
Take her out and let her shoot both and let her decide what she would feel more comfortable with.
Only my own opinion. Good luck, also another thing is have her and you both take classes and make a point once a week to go to the range.

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

I'd agree with the revolver. I have a hammerless 38. It's small enough I can put it in my pack when riding in the mountains and it's a point and shoot situation in the even the wife needs to use it. I also have a Ruger 9 which I really like too. It is just too big to lug around while riding a bike in the mountains.
Gugs
I have a hammerless 38 and after shooting my friends 9mm, I don't care to ever shoot my 38 again.

[Froggystyle]

Out of curiosity, why is everyone so into the hammerless guns? I know they are great for concealed carry so you don't snag your shirt when you draw, but it seems to be important to you guys for different reasons than that. The ease of use is pretty much the same, as is the reliability... but you don't get the option of single action, which can really, really, REALLY increase accuracy on a wheel gun.
Why the hammerless?

[Kilrtoy]

Out of curiosity, why is everyone so into the hammerless guns? I know they are great for concealed carry so you don't snag your shirt when you draw, but it seems to be important to you guys for different reasons than that. The ease of use is pretty much the same, as is the reliability... but you don't get the option of single action, which can really, really, REALLY increase accuracy on a wheel gun.
Why the hammerless?
they dont want to be hammered when shooting

[mondorally]

Out of curiosity, why is everyone so into the hammerless guns? I know they are great for concealed carry so you don't snag your shirt when you draw, but it seems to be important to you guys for different reasons than that. The ease of use is pretty much the same, as is the reliability... but you don't get the option of single action, which can really, really, REALLY increase accuracy on a wheel gun.
Why the hammerless?
My only thoughts were to further simplify the gun. Throw in some combination of nervousness & inexperience and I could see someone cocking a wheelgun for that Dirty Harry effect to only have it go BOOM when decocking it.
-Justin

[LOWRIVER2]

Froggy, DA revolvers were designed primarily for back up/2nd gun use, hence the "snag" factor.
The majority of the times you would utilize the gun will be when you are already in an active firefight and most likely it will be a CQB situation.
As you stated earlier, there's A LOT going on in the events leading up to an armed confrontation. Cocking the hammer is just one more step that could complicate things for someone who does not do extensive training with a handgun. Our revolvers (hammered included) have been neutered since the early 80's, mostly due to unintentional discharges.
While single action in a revolver is nice, most times a homeowner is going to be shooting in a room in a house which limits your field down to 7 yards and less. Most should be able to hit the ten ring with a little practice in DA mode.
As for Beretta's, they are POS. I had some Marines on a ride along Sat. night and their M-9's are starting to do what our dept. 92's did several years ago. We issue Glock 22's. 21's are for those in the know. 9mm are for those that like to watch suspects continue to shoot, attack after getting hit several times. Too many incidents in my shop, other deptment's to prove it.
In pistols remember,
It's all about size of the bullet, hole it makes. Hydrostatic shock really is'nt an issue with hand guns. The speed of the 9mm limits it's effectivness in creating a good blood channel. Shoot some gelatin blocks to see the difference. It's all about making a hole to let the blood out/ slow down the attacker. Broken bones are an added bonus.
Our 185 JHP's have an outstanding record. Nothing's perfect. We had a guy take 4 of these in the ten ring, go down, and then sit up and fire again. Three more to the temple stopped that threat.

[Froggystyle]

Cocking the hammer is just one more step that could complicate things for someone who does not do extensive training with a handgun.
Yeah, but who would cock it? I have never been in any course of fire in which one of the instructions was "cock the hammer". Any instinctive fire COF is going to assume, as you have mentioned that you are pulling the gun and firing, in which case you are shooting DA anyway.
Nobody ever won a decocking contest... or a holstering contest for that matter. I have never understood the rush to de-cock or holster, or why you would AD as a result.
If I bought a wheelgun, it would likely be a hammerless, but only because I would CC it and would prefer not to have a snag on it. Home defense... I would probably prefer something with a hammer so range time is more useful and breeds better skills. After all, once you pull the trigger you are in double action again any way...

[Froggystyle]

We had a guy take 4 of these in the ten ring, go down, and then sit up and fire again. Three more to the temple stopped that threat.
That's one of a hundred reasons I could never be a cop. Of the first four shots, two would have been in the head anyway, and one would have been considered a "security" round... ;)
When I bought the Cor-Bon +p rounds for Audrey's .45, the guy in the range saw that Aud was practicing mozambique drills and casually informed her that a Cor-Bon +P hit so hard that you would have a tough time finding a second piece big enough to aim at after the first shot.

[MudPumper]

Yeah, but who would cock it? I have never been in any course of fire in which one of the instructions was "cock the hammer". Any instinctive fire COF is going to assume, as you have mentioned that you are pulling the gun and firing, in which case you are shooting DA anyway.
Uncle Scotty Reitz would and he teaches a course of fire where you do. Hostage situation where you need to make a quick head shot. Granted Froggy, you could probably make that shot with a 2inch at 50 meters but you arent the norm when it comes to gunfighting.:D
Nobody ever won a decocking contest... or a holstering contest for that matter. I have never understood the rush to de-cock or holster, or why you would AD as a result.
Exactly.

[Kilrtoy]

but you arent the norm when it comes to gunfighting.:D
Exactly.
Its about time someones else realizes this

[Froggystyle]

Granted Froggy, you could probably make that shot with a 2inch at 50 meters but you arent the norm when it comes to gunfighting.:D
Actually, I am not that great of a target marksman. I mean, I shot expert and such, and to get into the kill house you need to put rounds through a 3x5 card at 50 with the pistol and your MP5 in quick fire, but I am a WAY better instinctive fire/active fire shooter than target. Head plates, chest plates, poppers, runners, movers etc... I am better than average even for SEALs, but I struggled to score expert on target practice. My groups aren't that tight, and you need to be hitting a lot of 10's to score expert.
Now rifle is a different story... :D

[LOWRIVER2]

I did'nt mention the whole scenario Wes,
Two C PLATOON METRO MEN working crime suppression, see a known gang member on a skateboard, as they approach in car, he sees them, grabs his waistband (officers make out the butt of a handgun), and starts running. Officers un ass the shop, begin pursuit, suspect turns mid stride and fires three rounds from 25 feet. Officers, in stride, fire the four rounds. Any good gun fighter knows that hits targeted in the center mass are best when SHOOTING ON THE MOVE (all four rounds hit 9/10 ring). Suspect takes the hits, continues running around the corner of a garage. As officers go to slow approach and PIE the corner, suspect (laying on back) pops up and begins shooting again, is neutralized.
A failure drill is well known with two to mass, one to head. Watch the movie with Cruise in LA and know he was taught by Scott Reitz . I'm proud to have worked in his platoon/ was a lot of fun shoot days/ off duty times with "Mr. Guiness".
Gunfighting is simple but VERY PERISHABLE. You're only as good as your last day shooting for sure.

[BADBLOWN572]

No matter what gun you buy, anyone who is going to have access to the gun should go to the range and put at least 1,000 rounds through it. Get comfortable with the gun & know what to expect when you pull the trigger. :)

[Froggystyle]

Watch the movie with Cruise in LA and know he was taught by Scott Reitz .
Homie got your briefcase?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ
Gunfighting is simple but VERY PERISHABLE. You're only as good as your last day shooting for sure.
Well, my last day was pretty good. The six years since has probably taken a little of the edge off though... :D

[Bense468]

Shooting trap at prado in an hour or so. :D

[Dave C]

You mean this? its comes in 9mm, 40 and 45... I will check this one out. Thanks
http://www.hk-usa.com/images/products/usp_compact/general/uspc_large_right.jpg
The sub-compact H&K 9mm is very, very "transportable" ( ;) ) Especially if you chose to "transport" it in a holster in the small of your back. Great safety, de-cocking lever and strong trigger pull make it a phenomenal weapon, and lots of composite materials make it light and agile. Fits nice in your hand too...
Couldn't find this on their website? Which is it? Smith and Wesson?
Smith J frame, you can have it in your front pocket and no one will know its there.

[Froggystyle]

Mozambique drill? Is that the same as 2+1?
From Wikipedia...
"The Mozambique Drill was added to the modern technique of gunfighting by Jeff Cooper based on the experience of one of his students, Mike Rousseau, while on duty in Mozambique. Rousseau was later killed in action in the Rhodesian War.
The Mozambique Drill considers the deficiency of the pistol round in stopping an adversary. Statistics show that reactions in gunfights are extremely irregular -- one must be prepared for the worst. Many times it is the case that after absorbing the trauma of the first shots, the enemy will disregard further ballistic insult. It has been pointed out that simply "more shots" are not the answer. The Mozambique Drill instructs the shooter to place a double-tap in the center of mass, followed by a carefully aimed headshot.
Contrary to popular belief, the immediate aim of defensive shooting is to incapacitate a target so as to render that person unable to attack. Unlike what is commonly seen on television and in movies, gunshot wounds rarely kill instantly. The incapacitation caused by gunshots is the result of neurocirculatory shock. The trauma resulting from impact and wound channel after two shots to a target's center of mass will produce a reflexive nervous system collapse in about 96% of cases. In the other 4%, either an adrenaline rush or the effect of stimulant drugs will override this reflex, and further shots will not produce this instantly-incapacitating shock.[citation needed] Because of this, the third shot should be aimed to destroy the brain, ensuring that the target's nervous system will shut down and leave the target unable to attack. This third shot is most effective when placed between a target's eyes as a higher shot is more likely to deflect off of hard bone and a lower shot is unlikely to produce the nervous system damage required to instantly stop an attacker.
Also known as the 'failure drill' or '2+1 drill'. As part of the U.S. National Guard Combat Pistol and other military combat pistol competitions, the Mozambique Drill is called Body Armor Defeat, and is frequently a discriminator between the average shooter and a gifted shooter, especially when it is timed."

[Froggystyle]

You mean this? its comes in 9mm, 40 and 45... I will check this one out. Thanks
http://www.hk-usa.com/images/products/usp_compact/general/uspc_large_right.jpg
That be her... Note that the mag dips down below the grip to give your third finger a land and superior control to compacts without that last bit of purchase.
That is a great gun. If I were to buy again, I would get that one. I bought mine with different usage in mind however so I got the full frame with a 12 round mag. I meant... a ten round, completely legal mag.

[gramps]

"Contrary to popular belief, the immediate aim of defensive shooting is to incapacitate a target so as to render that person unable to attack. Unlike what is commonly seen on television and in movies, gunshot wounds rarely kill instantly. The incapacitation caused by gunshots is the result of neurocirculatory shock. The trauma resulting from impact and wound channel after two shots to a target's center of mass will produce a reflexive nervous system collapse in about 96% of cases. In the other 4%, either an adrenaline rush or the effect of stimulant drugs will override this reflex, and further shots will not produce this instantly-incapacitating shock.[citation needed] Because of this, the third shot should be aimed to destroy the brain, ensuring that the target's nervous system will shut down and leave the target unable to attack. This third shot is most effective when placed between a target's eyes as a higher shot is more likely to deflect off of hard bone and a lower shot is unlikely to produce the nervous system damage required to instantly stop an attacker."
I wonder if Jack Bauer has read this?

[RVReady]

The nighthawk .45 is expensive but very nice

[Jbb]

Here's some handgun advice......Dont do this (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/34577)

[YeLLowBoaT]

You mean this? its comes in 9mm, 40 and 45... I will check this one out. Thanks
http://www.hk-usa.com/images/products/usp_compact/general/uspc_large_right.jpg
Couldn't find this on their website? Which is it? Smith and Wesson?
J frames (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15704&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15703&top_category=15703)

[junkyardhunter]

Again, it all comes down to what you are comfortable with. As a home protection, I also agree on a revolver. As an overall gun, my favorite is the H/K USP .45. The .40 is also a GREAT gun. I just prefer shooting the .45. I have had a Glock, Sig, Beretta, Taurus, etc... My H/K is still by far my favorite!!! Very comfortable feel & I have put probably 2,000 rounds through it and it has not given me a problem yet! :)
1 H&K USP .45 ACP or .40 S&W
2 sig P220 .45 ACP
3 sig P226 .40 S&W
4 sig P229 .40 S&W (smaller than P226)
SHOOT AS MANY DIFFERENT PISTOLS AS YOU CAN BEFORE YOU BUY
I have a Usp .45 with about 10,000 rds through it And I trust it with my life.I also have a Sig P226 .40 S&W great gun you can go wrong with SIG or H&K :D

[boat boy]

Know it's been said, but glock 23. Great right out of the box. For what's it worth, just bought a Henry Big Boy .44 mag long rifle last night.

[junkyardhunter]

Know it's been said, but glock 23. Great right out of the box. For what's it worth, just bought a Henry Big Boy .44 mag long rifle last night.
The thing I dont like about glocks is that they are single action. I preferr SA/DA type pistols.If the round dosent go off just pull the trigger again.With a single action you will have to cock the hammer or rack the slide to get a 2nd trigger pull.

[YeLLowBoaT]

From Wikipedia...
"The Mozambique Drill was added to the modern technique of gunfighting by Jeff Cooper based on the experience of one of his students, Mike Rousseau, while on duty in Mozambique. Rousseau was later killed in action in the Rhodesian War.
The Mozambique Drill considers the deficiency of the pistol round in stopping an adversary. Statistics show that reactions in gunfights are extremely irregular -- one must be prepared for the worst. Many times it is the case that after absorbing the trauma of the first shots, the enemy will disregard further ballistic insult. It has been pointed out that simply "more shots" are not the answer. The Mozambique Drill instructs the shooter to place a double-tap in the center of mass, followed by a carefully aimed headshot.
Contrary to popular belief, the immediate aim of defensive shooting is to incapacitate a target so as to render that person unable to attack. Unlike what is commonly seen on television and in movies, gunshot wounds rarely kill instantly. The incapacitation caused by gunshots is the result of neurocirculatory shock. The trauma resulting from impact and wound channel after two shots to a target's center of mass will produce a reflexive nervous system collapse in about 96% of cases. In the other 4%, either an adrenaline rush or the effect of stimulant drugs will override this reflex, and further shots will not produce this instantly-incapacitating shock.[citation needed] Because of this, the third shot should be aimed to destroy the brain, ensuring that the target's nervous system will shut down and leave the target unable to attack. This third shot is most effective when placed between a target's eyes as a higher shot is more likely to deflect off of hard bone and a lower shot is unlikely to produce the nervous system damage required to instantly stop an attacker.
Also known as the 'failure drill' or '2+1 drill'. As part of the U.S. National Guard Combat Pistol and other military combat pistol competitions, the Mozambique Drill is called Body Armor Defeat, and is frequently a discriminator between the average shooter and a gifted shooter, especially when it is timed."
I was always taught to shoot them until they stop. generally that ment 2 to the chest, 1 to the head, fallowed by 2 to the hips and then work back up the elavator. If they have a contact weapon I was tuagh to 2 in the hips and work up. Granted a 1st shot head shot would most likly be the best thing to do. If you can do it fast, every single time. ( most can't, thats something that takes lots of training, out side of miltary, federal law enforcement and "swat" teams I doubt you will find that kind of training. Hell most of them don't even teach that.) You are responsible for the resting place of all your rounds, the bad guy does not have to worry about that.
BTW Full metal jackets of any thing from 9MM and bigger ( and even some hot 32 and 25s) tend to over penatrate, IE go strait thru. Its best to use defensive loads. Also NEVER use reloads, Its not a realiablity issues, its a legal one. It could( and most likly will be) be argued that you made those rounds to do undo harm(sucks thats the way the world is now) to people.

[Jordy]

The thing I dont like about glocks is that they are single action. I preferr SA/DA type pistols.If the round dosent go off just pull the trigger again.With a single action you will have to cock the hammer or rack the slide to get a 2nd trigger pull.
Sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges. With a double action revolver, yes, if you misfire, you pull the trigger and fire on a new round in the cylinder. I don't know of ANY autos that will clear a misfire by doing anything other than racking the slide. :idea:
Then again, I've been occupied by other things that firearms for the last few years. ;)

[YeLLowBoaT]

Sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges. With a double action revolver, yes, if you misfire, you pull the trigger and fire on a new round in the cylinder. I don't know of ANY autos that will clear a misfire by doing anything other than racking the slide. :idea:
Then again, I've been occupied by other things that firearms for the last few years. ;)
lots of da/sa pistols will let you drop the hammer on the cartage again, if you have a light hit on the primer. Some times it will go bang, otherwise you have to rack the slide. I don't think I have ever had a factory round not go bang( has to be about 500k rounds now), unless it was do to a malfunctioning gun or malfunctioning operator. SO that really not very high on my list of features now reloads/hand loads, that is another story.

[junkyardhunter]

Sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges. With a double action revolver, yes, if you misfire, you pull the trigger and fire on a new round in the cylinder. I don't know of ANY autos that will clear a misfire by doing anything other than racking the slide. :idea:
Then again, I've been occupied by other things that firearms for the last few years. ;)
Well if you have a hard primer it might fire with a double strike witch you wount be able to do with a glock or single action pistol.Sig is making alot of double action pistols for a reason.

[Jordy]

Well if you have a hard primer it might fire with a double strike witch you wount be able to do with a glock or single action pistol.Sig is making alot of double action pistols for a reason.
I'd rather not gamble with a "MIGHT" if I ever find myself in a situation where it's my life or the person who decided something in my house is more valuable than his. ;)
p.s. Sig or HK would be my choice. Damn, might be time to go to the gun store. Haven't been in a while. :idea:
For home protection, it's the unmistakable sound of a 12 gauge pump that will often make the intruder rethink his route. :D

[junkyardhunter]

I'd rather not gamble with a "MIGHT" if I ever find myself in a situation where it's my life or the person who decided something in my house is more valuable than his. ;)
p.s. Sig or HK would be my choice. Damn, might be time to go to the gun store. Haven't been in a while. :idea:
For home protection, it's the unmistakable sound of a 12 gauge pump that will often make the intruder rethink his route. :D
I hear ya my H&K usp is back up to my Mossberg 12 ga.

[Magic34]

Checked out the Sigs tonight at Big Bass Pro Shop. That store is the sh*t!

[MudPumper]

The thing I dont like about glocks is that they are single action. I preferr SA/DA type pistols.If the round dosent go off just pull the trigger again.With a single action you will have to cock the hammer or rack the slide to get a 2nd trigger pull.
If you are shooting an auto and the round does not fire after the trigger press, the proper technique is a malfunction drill. You don't just keep pulling the trigger. :idea: Single or Double action, this is the proper thing to do. Make sure the magazine is completely inserted (Tap), cant the gun, chamber opening down, to allow gravity to help clear the bad round (Invert),rack the slide to eject the round that did not fire (Rack). Just pulling the trigger over and over again will get you killed. Tap, Invert, Rack.

[MudPumper]

Well if you have a hard primer it might fire with a double strike witch you wount be able to do with a glock or single action pistol.Sig is making alot of double action pistols for a reason.
The reason Sig makes Da/Sa, isn't so you can press the trigger again on a failed primer.

[Froggystyle]

If you are shooting an auto and the round does not fire after the trigger press, the proper technique is a malfunction drill. You don't just keep pulling the trigger. :idea: Single or Double action, this is the proper thing to do. Make sure the magazine is completely inserted (Tap), cant the gun chamber opening down to allow gravity to help clear the bad round (Invert),rack the slide to eject the round that did not fire (Rack). Just pulling the trigger over and over again will get you killed.
"Tap, Rack, Bang" was replaced in our world by "S.P.O.R.T." fire drills.
S) Slap the mag
P) Pull the slide
O) Observe the ejected round leaving
R) Release Slide
T) Target
Anytime we do malfunction drills with any automatic secondary weapon this comes into play. If it is your primary, your resolution is to go to your secondary.

[XtrmWakeborder]

For home defense i'd probably just get a semi auto 12 gauge. Really easy to shoot, little kick, and they will stop.

[Kiddunot]

good choice, great aim and plenty of safety features. I have the XD-9Any of the Springfield Armory XD models.
Own 2 of them (.40) and (.45 compact) planning on getting my 3rd in a few weeks here, Sub-compact 9mm.

['75 Miller]

Get used to the trigger safety and buy a Glock. Sigs, Berettas, Para, 1911s are all fine choices too, but the Glock WILL NOT let you down. Get the 4lb trigger work done and you're set....for life. Easy to shoot, easy to clean, and it will likely cost at least $100 less than any of the above.

[gunslinger]

When I first came on the job I was issued a Beretta 92 9mm. I carried that weapon for about a year. I now am able to carry a Glock model 21 in.45. I have had a couple HK USP 40's and they were nice but not approved to carry. I am a fan of the Glock and its safety system. No external crap. No exposed hammer or decocker. You dont need that stuff. I have put thousands of rounds through the Glock without problems and trust my life with this pistol. What ever gun you end up with, make sure you train with it continuously and get educated by a firearms instructor before you develop bad shooting habbits. As far as storing the firearm at home keep in mind an unloaded gun is a piece of metal (or plastic). Good luck.

[LOWRIVER2]

LAPD went to the Glock primarily because Beretta started charging us for every part while Smith&Wesson/ Glock did not. The Berettas starting falling apart around the 20 year mark with trigger springs, barrel lugs breaking, etc. It did'nt hurt that Bratton had them in NY and liked them.
I carried a Smith 4506 for 8 years before Glocks were approved. While the gun was never liked by civilians, it served me fine and never let me down. Accuracy was actually easier to achieve with it than the Glock.
I switched over to Glock with all of Metro in 03 mainly due to the adaptablility of a mounted tac light and the 5 lb. press on the first shot. High capacity was never an issue for me, 90% of our gun battles are over in 9 rounds or less and if you practice reloading, not a big deal.
We had issues with the 21's as Glock never originally intended to chamber it's gun for a .45. They scaled down there 10mm slide for the .45. A batch of guns had numerous problems with double feeds, two happened during Officer involved shootings. Glock reps were helpful in correcting the problem.
Metro officer's 21's were the guinea pigs for the improvements and, unfortunately, the first series of changes made the Metro guns worse.
After two corrections to the slide, the problem was solved. I went back to my 4506 for a year while the corrections were made. My 21 never had a problem and therfore did not get a new slide. All of Metro got brand new guns as to assure no issues remained.
I trust my Glock after all the rounds I've put through it and I have not heard of any trouble with our 21's since the final retrofit. Longevity of the Glocks without cleaning is amazing. I know of two officers who work the Range that own Glock 17's with over 50,000 rounds fired through them with NO OIL/CLEANING. Neither have had a misfire/malfunction. While no one recommends this, it says a lot about the fact that these guns will work for an average joe that does'nt adhere to the proper maintenance that semi autos demand to work properly.

[Freak]

I've had a few. Sigs - Hk's etc but I have to say I really like my Glock for just a simple reliable gun.
Get what ever you want.
Most important is to remember this. If you ever have to shoot someone (and you can't shoot them for stealing) you need to know what to say and only what to say to the officer.

[rivercrazy]

I can't profess to work my handgun anywhere near as hard as law enforcement or the military but my Taurus PT92AF (Beretta clone) has about 10,000 rounds through it. Its never jammed or had a problem of any kind. My experience with this gun from a civilian standpoint has been bulletproof. And it has cycled quite a few Corbon +P+ 115 grain loads.
I've shot a lot of semi auto hand guns. Sigs, Rugers, Glocks, S&W's, Colts, etc. They all all fun to shoot and have their unique advantages. But the Beratta/Taurus 92's fit my hand perfect, are very accurate, and have one of the best trigger pulls in my opinion.

[Froggystyle]

One thing I haven't mentioned yet that is really important... aftermarket grips.
Guns are made to be super durable and last a long time, chemical resistant etc... and as such they generally have hard plastic or wood grips. That is nice, but I have never owned, shot professionally or likely will ever own a gun that didn't benefit hugely from an aftermarket slip-on grip like a Hogue.
The gun gets "sticky" in your hand, and really becomes part of your musculature. You will have more confidence, better accuracy and infintely better comfort by the addition of one. I also have big hands, so they make grips that will take up a little space in your hand as well. The standard grip is very thin, so it won't take up much space at all.
They are made specifically for each model, and if they don't make one for yours, you can try different grips and sometimes get lucky. They make them for rifles, assault weapons, handguns (both auto and revolver) and shotguns.
I recommend them highly.
When you test the gun in the store, when you find a couple that you like the feel, look, capacity, features and price of, put some Hogue grips on them and see which one you like better now.

[Bense468]

I shot a brand new 92fs. second rd. jammed, cleared it, ran through the rest of that mag. Second mag had another jam. I put the gun down and said I'm done.
I never have like beretta's (except their shotguns) and everyone said you have to try the 92fs.

[AZJD]

I can't profess to work my handgun anywhere near as hard as law enforcement or the military but my Taurus PT92AF (Beretta clone) has about 10,000 rounds through it. Its never jammed or had a problem of any kind. My experience with this gun from a civilian standpoint has been bulletproof. And it has cycled quite a few Corbon +P+ 115 grain loads.
I've shot a lot of semi auto hand guns. Sigs, Rugers, Glocks, S&W's, Colts, etc. They all all fun to shoot and have their unique advantages. But the Beratta/Taurus 92's fit my hand perfect, are very accurate, and have one of the best trigger pulls in my opinion.
115 grain! What is that, 5 or 6 grain more than a BB gun?:D

[rivercrazy]

115 grain! What is that, 5 or 6 grain more than a BB gun?:D
Do some research. What you will find is this cartridge is one of the best available home defense loads. In actual use, they have proven to be effective over 90% of the time for "one-shot" stopping ability. Very few handgun loads are this effective. 357 magnum loads are one of the only that have proven to be better.
To get most hollow points to perform in this scenario require velocity and this round does just that at over 1400 fps. this allows full expansion of the load which allows more energy to be transmitted to the intended target.
However, a 12 gauge shotgun is the most effective and responsible home defense option.

[AZJD]

Do some research. What you will find is this cartridge is one of the best available home defense loads. In actual use, they have proven to be effective over 90% of the time for "one-shot" stopping ability. Very few handgun loads are this effective. 357 magnum loads are one of the only that have proven to be better.
To get most hollow points to perform in this scenario require velocity and this round does just that at over 1400 fps. this allows full expansion of the load which allows more energy to be transmitted to the intended target.
However, a 12 gauge shotgun is the most effective and responsible home defense option.
Size and velocity make a good stopping load.
Personally I have switched to these........
http://www.federalpremium.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=7
Expanding full metal jackets will get the point across with a .45

[YeLLowBoaT]

I use to love .45, until I bought my delta elite. 10mm kicks 45acp ass any day of the week.

[AZJD]

I use to love .45, until I bought my delta elite. 10mm kicks 45acp ass any day of the week.
Dammit! I sure hope the guy breaking in to my house doesn't have one of those!;) :D

[Screaming Pete]

here is a great H&K link for a usp 45 compact, check out the rest of the sight also
http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65339

[Bense468]

Todd Jarrett on Pistol shooting.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

[Bense468]

Check out this guy with the new Beretta 12
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B6bKbqSdNEc

[Froggystyle]

Todd Jarrett on Pistol shooting.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48
That was like my first week of pistol training in four minutes... Every single thing he said was beat into us in BUD/s training...
Isoceles stance, thumbs forward, perfect four point grip, high on the beavertail, trigger finger only using the tip, front sight focus etc...
Here is another phenomenal video from a guy with lots of answers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[Bense468]

I have some practicing to do. 25 out of 25 is not good enough anymore lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7IE_dXoicA

[LOWRIVER2]

We don't use slip on grips as they can tear, slip off over time in an everyday carry environment.
Robar does a nice job of machining the plastic on the grip to give a great feel. Hogue makes bolt on rubber grips for most semi's. Have one on my 4506 and 92.
The new Glock 21FS should be well liked as it's grip is slimmer and this has been one reason many have'nt gone to a Glock .45 as the grip is wide with the large width backstrap.

[XtrmWakeborder]

Check out this guy with the new Beretta 12
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B6bKbqSdNEc
That is the shotgun I shot. An 8 year old could handle it.

[eliminatedsprinter]

I shot a brand new 92fs. second rd. jammed, cleared it, ran through the rest of that mag. Second mag had another jam. I put the gun down and said I'm done.
I never have like beretta's (except their shotguns) and everyone said you have to try the 92fs.
My sig .40 shot about 800 rounds before it had it's first jam. I found it would jam if the slide was dry.
On the other hand, my springfield .45 did what your 92fs did. Fortunatly my gun dealer warned me that would happen (do to it's tight fitting slide) and that it would be gone by 50-100 rounds. He was wrong. It never again jammed after the first 25 rounds and it has been more reliable and accurate than the sig ever since.
Don't get me wrong. I love my sigs. In fact I shoot them more (because they are so much easier to clean) than I do my Springfield. It's just that, even though it was half the price of my sigs, I find it amazing that it is every bit as well made and at least as accurate and reliable.

[Dave C]

thanks.... I will check it out.....
Also I take back the name "gun nut".... I should have called you gentlemen, "gun aficionados" :D
also I shouldn't have used the term reliable.. what I meant was quality. H&K seems like a good fit.
That be her... Note that the mag dips down below the grip to give your third finger a land and superior control to compacts without that last bit of purchase.
That is a great gun. If I were to buy again, I would get that one. I bought mine with different usage in mind however so I got the full frame with a 12 round mag. I meant... a ten round, completely legal mag.

[Bense468]

My sig .40 shot about 800 rounds before it had it's first jam. I found it would jam if the slide was dry.
On the other hand, my springfield .45 did what your 92fs did. Fortunatly my gun dealer warned me that would happen (do to it's tight fitting slide) and that it would be gone by 50-100 rounds. He was wrong. It never again jammed after the first 25 rounds and it has been more reliable and accurate than the sig ever since.
Don't get me wrong. I love my sigs. In fact I shoot them more (because they are so much easier to clean) than I do my Springfield. It's just that, even though it was half the price of my sigs, I find it amazing that it is every bit as well made and at least as accurate and reliable.
Yeah I have a stainless sig 226.

[MudPumper]

That was like my first week of pistol training in four minutes... Every single thing he said was beat into us in BUD/s training...
Isoceles stance, thumbs forward, perfect four point grip, high on the beavertail, trigger finger only using the tip, front sight focus etc...
Here is another phenomenal video from a guy with lots of answers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
It's all about the Mechanics. I see people at the range just blasting rounds and they have no clue of the proper mechanics.

[Froggystyle]

It's all about the Mechanics. I see people at the range just blasting rounds and they have no clue of the proper mechanics.
As with many other things in life, you are either setting yourself up for success or failure from the first moment you lay a hand on it.

[Screaming Pete]

Main thing is to put the thing in your hand. Someone a few posts back said the glock 45 was too wide. My glock 20 (10mm) is the same width and fits me perfectly...but maybe not you.
The guy shooting the shotgun...needs to clean up before he goes home. And he can't go dove hunting with me either (he couldn't hit'm anyway, while he's laughing at me...).
i went dove hunting a few years back with a western shooter, that sat behind me with a 4-10 picked up my misses and got both of our limits in 20 min.....well at least i got 4 of them......lol

[eliminatedsprinter]

Yeah I have a stainless sig 226.
A fine piece.:D
I used to have a p229 (it was stolen in a home burglery).
I currently have a 228 and a 230.
I also really love the 220.
I have always wished I had a 210. :) I have also always wanted a H&K P7, since that is the best shooting (for my hand) simi auto pistol I have ever shot.:)

[gramps]

One thing I haven't mentioned yet that is really important... aftermarket grips.
Guns are made to be super durable and last a long time, chemical resistant etc... and as such they generally have hard plastic or wood grips. That is nice, but I have never owned, shot professionally or likely will ever own a gun that didn't benefit hugely from an aftermarket slip-on grip like a Hogue.
The gun gets "sticky" in your hand, and really becomes part of your musculature. You will have more confidence, better accuracy and infintely better comfort by the addition of one. I also have big hands, so they make grips that will take up a little space in your hand as well. The standard grip is very thin, so it won't take up much space at all.
They are made specifically for each model, and if they don't make one for yours, you can try different grips and sometimes get lucky. They make them for rifles, assault weapons, handguns (both auto and revolver) and shotguns.
I recommend them highly.
When you test the gun in the store, when you find a couple that you like the feel, look, capacity, features and price of, put some Hogue grips on them and see which one you like better now.
One other aftermarket grip that should be consideres is the Crismion Trase Laser Grip. They have a very nice fit and sticky feel but most important is the nice little red dot it places on your target..............

[Titan7]

Everyone is a brand-cheerleader, and it is monumentally easy to cheer for H&K since they are considered premium by any measure. I have yet to shoot an H&K weapon that I didn't consider the best weapon of it's type, from the MP5 to the G3 to the USP .45... nothing really comes close... if you like the way a double roller locking block shoots. ( not the handguns guys... just the others...)
That said, my dream gun is an accurized G3... 7.62 NATO with a collapsible stock....
http://world.guns.ru/assault/hk_g3ka4.jpg
Edit: Or the Galil MAR... 5.56 and bitchin!
http://world.guns.ru/assault/galil-mar.jpg
The HK P9S is nice too and one of only a couple delay roller block pistols made. Didn't the Teams use these back in the 70's?

[diesel]

I want to purchase a .40 handgun in the near future. My main purpose is for security when at home and/or when traveling in the truck and in the forest on the Rhino.
I will probably do some recreational shooting at a range 2-3 times per year.
I plan on have 2 different safes. 1 for the gun and 1 for the ammo. They will be on the highest shelf in the house, and locked in the safe any time when not in actual use. The only way my kids coudl get to it is to pull out a 6 foot ladder, know exactly where to go since you cant see it from the top of the shelp (fairly deep), and know the codes to each safe. I'm want to be as safe as possible.
What suggestions do yo have with which make/model to get? The more safety the better. I will also probably install that tactical flash light on it as well. What I didn't like about the glocks is that the safety was in the trigger. Didn't feel safe is it got into the wrong hands.
I dont need the biggest and baddest gun either. 1 that shoots straigt at a good distance and is easy to handle. I want the best for the money.
Any other safety/handling suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
The 40 cal was designed after the 10MM was packing to much punch for law enforcement, & they needed something smaller, but with more kick than the 9mm.
Any model with the word tactical in it would be setup for your flashlight...
I prefer the good old fashioned steel 1911 models, instead of a tupperware gun anyday.

[Lavey5150]

Sig P-220 45 St..... Ray Charles could nail the Bull w/ it.......