460 ford cam?..

[jeff85m]

i am going to rebuild the 460 in my glastron carlson cv 23 this winter. the pump was just rebuilt by dons pump service, "a" impeller with inducer, and place diverter. new motor will have 10.6 to 1 comp. with aluminum motorsport heads. i run a bluethunder dual plane dual quad intake with edelbrock 625's, and msd ignition. i can not change the stock hardin marine logs as there is absolutely no room in the engine compartment or in the rear interior for any change there. my question is what cam to run. it has a comp cams .530 lift flat tappet hydraulic now and turns 4900 rpm @63 mph, with this tight pump. anyone with "hands on" experience i would greatly appreciate your input. comp cams and crane cams suggest 2 way different cams. so what to do? pump premium 93 octane fuel will be used . thanks to all

[ol guy]

The cam I have ran ALOT in that sort of configuratin is a CHET HERBERT grind, 224/330- 501-540 lift on a 112 lobe center. Idles like a kitten and comes to life yesterday and in my 460's plus or minus would pull real hard to 5800 rpm. If you want more info post back.M

[Squirtin Thunder]

I would recomend the Comp XM 278 and at least port match the entry of the logs. I have seen 3 pair that block more than a third of the flow.

[Danhercules]

Contact High Flow Dynamics (lakesonly), he will set you stright. He will build you somthin right!

[LakesOnly]

i am going to rebuild the 460 in my glastron carlson cv 23 this winter. the pump was just rebuilt by dons pump service, "a" impeller with inducer, and place diverter. new motor will have 10.6 to 1 comp. with aluminum motorsport heads. i run a bluethunder dual plane dual quad intake with edelbrock 625's, and msd ignition. i can not change the stock hardin marine logs as there is absolutely no room in the engine compartment or in the rear interior for any change there. my question is what cam to run. it has a comp cams .530 lift flat tappet hydraulic now and turns 4900 rpm @63 mph, with this tight pump. anyone with "hands on" experience i would greatly appreciate your input. comp cams and crane cams suggest 2 way different cams. so what to do? pump premium 93 octane fuel will be used . thanks to allHow are you calculating your 10.6:1 compression ratio? What pistons do you have? Do you have Ford Motorsport A429 heads or Kasse SCJ heads? If A429's, what are the serial numbers of the heads (very important)?
4900 rpm is not particularly bad with the current build and the pump setup....a little more info on your engine's specifics and maybe we can get more rpms out of it, but without more detailed info I personally can't offer any advice...but I will say that I feel the intake and carbs could stand to be replaced.
Is a simple freshen/upgrade mandatory or will you consider a completely new combination for the rebuild (ie stroker, etc)?
LO

[jeff85m]

my boat came with the ford power otherwise i would have preferred a bbc, however i have grown to love the big blue for its reliability and its uniqueness around here [houston]. i have not gotten the heads yet but they are on the way. they are 74cc combustion chambers, big valves and most importantly 80 lbs. lighter. it takes 3500 rpm to plain, so beteewn idle[900] and 3500 rpm the power is not used. its 3500 on up that i would like to improve on mainly the top rpm and speed. i went with a "b" impeller and slowed down and burned lots of gas so the pump is right. dons pump service put an "a" in it with an inducer so it is much better out of the hole and on fuel. also the intake/ carb setup added trmendous throttle response and acceleration to this rig not doing any other changes. i did have a marinized edelbrock rpm plus with a properly set up holley marine carb. i have learned things the hard way many times before so when i make a change it is with experienced input or a pros advise. the compression is based on keith black hyper whatever pistons combined with the 74 cc combustion chamber, and a .040 felpro gasket. anyway thanks for the input and i feel that the cam selection is the single most important ingrediant to gaining some more rpm which should mean a few more mph. thank you to all.

[LakesOnly]

i have not gotten the heads yet but they are on the way. they are 74cc combustion chambers, big valves and most importantly 80 lbs. lighter. the compression is based on keith black hyper whatever pistons combined with the 74 cc combustion chamber, and a .040 felpro gasket. anyway thanks for the input and i feel that the cam selection is the single most important ingrediant to gaining some more rpm which should mean a few more mph. thank you to all. KB flat tops = ~11.5:1
KB 15cc dish = ~10.6:1
KB 22 dish = ~ 9.9:1
My opinion is that your motor is a bit of a mismatch in componentry, but with the shopping cart of "go-fast bolt-ons" that seem to be applied to your engine, you will see a power increase. I feel the heads you selected for your (assummed) .030 overbore 460 are not the best choice for this particular application but will certainly generate more power than the oem D3VE's. Generally, aluminum Ford Racing heads that you selected are a bit too much for the small engine and the rest of your powerplant combination and in this application. Other heads might make more usable power with the current build and pump, but should you be planning to go to a larger engine in the future (like 500 cubes or more), then the SCJ heads can really shine.
Given the circumstances, most of the shelf grinds I would select have duration/lift profiles that cannot promote optimum port velocity and will not offer optimized engine efficiency. I'd probably try a CompCams 34-251-4 (which should be a 286AH-10, not a 268AH-10 which must be a catalog typo) or a Lunati 61604.
LO

[jeff85m]

well to tell you the truth i have considered a stroker kit by "scat" but am a little leary of the constant high rpm and what it will do to the reliablity. any thoughts? i don't want to spend ten grand on a 30 year old boat, even though it is totally cosmetically restored in and out except for the 10 year old rebuild on the engine. i got the heads today but did'nt see any s#. where would that be? i am pleased at there 32 lbs. weight. again i really appreciate your advise, and will get the comp cam, as i have always run them before and gotten good results. this is a river/lake cruiser that pulls lots of tubes and boards. it is impressive to pop the bonnett for the wow "thats a tough mill"!! thanks again.

[AzMandella]

well to tell you the truth i have considered a stroker kit by "scat" but am a little leary of the constant high rpm and what it will do to the reliablity. any thoughts? i don't want to spend ten grand on a 30 year old boat, even though it is totally cosmetically restored in and out except for the 10 year old rebuild on the engine. i got the heads today but did'nt see any s#. where would that be? i am pleased at there 32 lbs. weight. again i really appreciate your advise, and will get the comp cam, as i have always run them before and gotten good results. this is a river/lake cruiser that pulls lots of tubes and boards. it is impressive to pop the bonnett for the wow "thats a tough mill"!! thanks again.
I don't think I'd worry about the RPM's.I run a factory 2 bolt block stroked to 514 with 12.5 - 1 compresion in my v-drive and spin iy 7000 all day long.The factory mains are very beefy and with main studs are very reliable.This motor is on it's 3rd season and I have not had even the smallest problem.

[zgoo]

Jeff,
I just bought a 1979 CV23 with about 20 hours of use since new!! To say it's all stock is an understatement. (Well I just changed out the 28 year old spark plugs:D )I would like to know more of the "A" impeller change, just wondering how it would help my CV23. My runs 4900 rpm at 57mph, stock gauges.
Dan

[LakesOnly]

...i have considered a stroker kit by "scat" but am a little leary of the constant high rpm and what it will do to the reliablity. i don't want to spend ten grand on a 30 year old boat, even though it is totally cosmetically restored in and out except for the 10 year old rebuild on the engine. i got the heads today but did'nt see any s#. where would that be? i am pleased at there 32 lbs. weight....will get the comp cam, this is a river/lake cruiser that pulls lots of tubes and boards.Jeff, some points to think about:
Assuming the same set of heads on two different engines, strokers will make a given hp number at a lesser rpm than a non-stroker engine.
If you don't want to put a lot of money into your engine, then I suggest that you get one of the aformentioned camshafts and install it in your current engine and call it good.
Do not use either of those camshafts should you decide to build a stroker engine, as such a stroker engine will perform better with an entirely different camshaft.
Although you still haven't clarified, it now sounds as though you bought a brand new set of Ford Motorsport SCJ heads. If this is the case, consider that the SCJ valve layout is of a different orientation relative to the valve pockets in the KB hyper pistons. And since KB's are specially designed to put the pistons closer to zero deck in an undecked block, you can very likely have valve-to-piston interference problems. So if you have the Ford Motorsport SCJ heads, STOP and learn more about what you are attempting to throw together.
The valve train with the D3VE heads will not transfer over to the aluminum heads that you have purchased. In order to install those heads onto an engine, you will need roller rockers and pushrods (assuming that what you bought already has the valves/springs/studs, etc.) And you cannot know which length pushrods to purchase until the rest of the engine is assembled and vavle train geometry can be evaluated.
I still don't know if you have flat top or dished pistons; knowing this will help me suggest alternate setups for your current engine that can get you the power that you desire.
I would say your best choices for performance upgrades are the following: Put one of the aforementioned camshafts in your current engine and call it good...perhaps some portwork on the D3VE's which can wake the engine up significantly more. And then just run your boat.
Keep the parts you have acquired thus far, keep the engine in your boat just as it is...and then start putting together a stroker engine on the side while you enjoy your running boat. I would suggest a shortblock, 500-cube stroker with the special pistons needed for the (assumed) SCJ heads, then install the new heads onto that shortblock and swap other external parts over from the running engine to your newly built 500-cube longblock. You can do this in your own sweet time and it won't hit your wallet as hard as having your boat apart and trying to get back into the water pronto while throwing money at it.
For a recent maintenance free 500-cuber stroker build that we did, click HERE. (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161569&highlight=)
Feel free to call me with any questions, I'm beginning to think there might be lots for you to get briefed on and too much to type here. I'd be happy to provide you with plenty of insight.
LO

[Blown 472]

If your glastron has an "E" pump, dont expect to pull a ton of rpm from it, I have never gotten and big rpm from mine, and have had everything from a blown motta to a 11.5 to 1 429 in it.

[jeff85m]

also dan with the cv-23, your boat has an "a" impeller from the factory. don't change to the "b". you will slow down out of the hole, burn 20% more gas and lose top end. if you don't have a place diverter get on either electric or manuel [which i have] and this will get the bow up and you'll pick up 3-5 mph. what color combo do you have?

[zgoo]

Jeff,
Thanks for the info on the impeller. I think I will buy a diverter this winter if I don't sell it. I really like this boat, I'm always have people come up and ask abouit it or make comments on it. What year and color is yours, my a 1979 gold flake and yellow. Just love the sound of that 460 cranking up to speed!!!:D
Dan

[jeff85m]

its a 1978 metalflake copper with almond color in the solid gelcoat areas, with almond interior with chestnut stripes and piping. it does'nt sound to swift in print but it is actually very slick looking. i got hit by an idiot driver on the way to the river 2 years ago while it was on the trailer, and got the insurance company to pay me $8600. to settle the claim. they wanted to give me $5000. and keep the boat but i got an attorney to send them a nasty letter and they paid up. it gave me the cash to get a new matching trailer from the original manufactuer, fixed the windshield, fixed the little bit of damage the boat incurred,and all new interior upholstery and carpet, plus all new gauges and steering wheel. so i am real proud of it. not many around, and i have a waiting list of people who want to buy it should i decided to sell. so if you want to seel let me know and i'll give you a couple of #s in the houston area that want one. enjoy your rig!!

[zgoo]

Jeff,
My is gold/copper flakes with the light yellow. When I bought it it had the 1979 plugs in it. Still has the stock point, cap, rotor, and wires from 1979. I've had it out on the river a few times this week and I would be floating along and would have people come by turn around and come back to talk about it. Loading/unloading is the same, people are always asking about, some are shocked when I tell them the year and that it's all stock. I would sell it for $9,000. only because I have a Glastron 19CSS that I redoing so I would still own a another rare Glastron. The CV23 won't be the fasted boat out there but for comfort, looks, and sound it's rate at the top in my book;) !
Dan