A question on a deposit to a boat builderÂ…Â…Â…Â…Â…Â…

[andy01]

If you have given a boat builder a deposit should it be refunded to your credit card? If the builder has done nothing to start the build. I mean no drawings, no ordering of parts, nothing.
This builder stated they are sold out for almost a year and that they were not making any money on your build because your price was a “bro deal”? This builder is always very busy when you try and get him on the phone.
Your life changes a little bit do to the market of houses and such, so you decide that the best thing you should do is ask for your money back from this over booked builder that is making no money on your order. They state they have to sell “your spot first” now keep in mind this is a 2.5% deposit of the build cost, $5,000.
Should the customer wait for the builder to sell “their spot” or should he refund the customers credit card the 5 G’s? Now keep in mind when the customer called last week the builder said “ Hey buddy, no problem! I will have my secretary do it right away. You call a week later and get the “we have to sell” your spot bullshet, and this is the first you have heard of it.
Any builders that would like to chime in on this are welcome. I would like to see what they have to say about this. I know all of you guys lurk here on the boardsÂ…Â…Â…Â…
Oh if your wondering what I think, I think they should hands down put the 5 right back on the customers credit card with no questions asked.
Andy

[OGShocker]

If you have given a boat builder a deposit should it be refunded to your credit card? If the builder has done nothing to start the build. I mean no drawings, no ordering of parts, nothing.
This builder stated they are sold out for almost a year and that they were not making any money on your build because your price was a “bro deal”? This builder is always very busy when you try and get him on the phone.
Your life changes a little bit do to the market of houses and such, so you decide that the best thing you should do is ask for your money back from this over booked builder that is making no money on your order. They state they have to sell “your spot first” now keep in mind this is a 2.5% deposit of the build cost, $5,000.
Should the customer wait for the builder to sell “their spot” or should he refund the customers credit card the 5 G’s? Now keep in mind when the customer called last week the builder said “ Hey buddy, no problem! I will have my secretary do it right away. You call a week later and get the “we have to sell” your spot bullshet, and this is the first you have heard of it.
Any builders that would like to chime in on this are welcome. I would like to see what they have to say about this. I know all of you guys lurk here on the boardsÂ…Â…Â…Â…
Oh if your wondering what I think, I think they should hands down put the 5 right back on the customers credit card with no questions asked.
Andy
Grow a set of balls... POST UP THE NAME!!!.:D:D:D j/k!!
That sux, good luck!

[Jbb]

If you have given a boat builder a deposit should it be refunded to your credit card? If the builder has done nothing to start the build. I mean no drawings, no ordering of parts, nothing.
This builder stated they are sold out for almost a year and that they were not making any money on your build because your price was a “bro deal”? This builder is always very busy when you try and get him on the phone.
Your life changes a little bit do to the market of houses and such, so you decide that the best thing you should do is ask for your money back from this over booked builder that is making no money on your order. They state they have to sell “your spot first” now keep in mind this is a 2.5% deposit of the build cost, $5,000.
Should the customer wait for the builder to sell “their spot” or should he refund the customers credit card the 5 G’s? Now keep in mind when the customer called last week the builder said “ Hey buddy, no problem! I will have my secretary do it right away. You call a week later and get the “we have to sell” your spot bullshet, and this is the first you have heard of it.
Any builders that would like to chime in on this are welcome. I would like to see what they have to say about this. I know all of you guys lurk here on the boardsÂ…Â…Â…Â…
Oh if your wondering what I think, I think they should hands down put the 5 right back on the customers credit card with no questions asked.
Andy
I agree ...no action...money goes back

[Screaming Pete]

i do too , but if they have incurred a 2-3% charge maybe you should cover that. but if nothing been charged to you account. nothing has been lost. so dealer should say well when things get better come on back and will build you a nice one later. thank you with a smile and good will

[USCFAN]

You would think he would definetly be able to get his deposit back without a problem. But I have found from other dealings in this industry, that once they have your money, you will play hell getting it back.

[572Daytona]

It depends on the contract. Most won't let you out for life changes but there should be some sort of time limit for performance.

[ChumpChange]

If they have incurred no cost on the build, they should refund the complete amount asap. I think a court would find it that same way.

[RiverDave]

Well this is only one side of the story, but from what I just read I think they oughta refund the guy his 5G's yesterday.
If they have a year waiting list, then why bother selling his spot? The list just gets bumped up a notch, and an open spot at the end of the list becomes available. If there's that many people lined up to buy them then someone will come along surely in the next year to fill that slot.
RD

[jbtrailerjim]

The builder has more than likely spent the 5k and doesn't have the dough to credit the guys card back. West coast builders are slow right now. What builder is a year out right now? I can think of only 3 builders that are usually pretty far out on build times.

[riverbound]

In dealing with boat builders. I would have to go out on a limb that the builder has already spent the $5k on somebody else boat and needs to "sell the spot" so he/she can have the money to give back. I have heard some AMAZING stories of stunts pulled by big name builders recently. I wouldnt trust most of them to wash my truck, let alone handle any of my money.
as a side note, if it was done on a CC the customer can just call up the CC company and dispute the charges, stating that they have received no services and nothing has been ordered/done on the boat. ;)

[ChumpChange]

You would think he would definetly be able to get his deposit back without a problem. But I have found from other dealings in this industry, that once they have your money, you will play hell getting it back.
The boating industry does have sort of a black cloud over it in this circumstance.
Make sure your buddy cancels the order in writing asap so the builder does not start the build and incurr costs. Then sue in small claims.

[Zimm944]

You should get your money back whenever you want. I had a problem with a boat company cashing my check after they said it was just to hold. It took five weeks to get my money back. It came down to me not being such a push over when talking to the saleman.

[Pussywhippled]

This is really not even a valid question since everyone pays cash for their boats. Right...

[ChumpChange]

If the $5,000 is a 2.5% deposit, generally a builder who builds $200,000 boats should have the cash on hand to refund.
Hmmmm, now who builds expensive boats? :idea:

[CoolCruzinCobra]

If the builder is book up ,there should be no problem with getting your money back as long as they didn't start on any thing.
Post the builders name.
That might add a little fire on his ass.
I would get my money back asap.
There is lots of boat builder that would like an order right now.

[riverbound]

If the $5,000 is a 2.5% deposit, generally a builder who builds $200,000 boats should have the cash on hand to refund.
Hmmmm, now who builds expensive boats? :idea:
Just because they build $200k boats, doesnt necesarily mean they have the cash laying around.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The deposit gets returned, without question or wait. One would have to imagine that if there is a waiting list, the builder is a good and reputable one.
Again, the deposit gets returned, without question or wait.

[Racey]

They should refund you asap imo. especially if they havent started anything and you haven't cost them any money apart from their ~2% merchant charge on the CC.

[Jetboatguru]

Andy, did the builder make it a non refundable deposit?

[Froggystyle]

He needs to get his money back immediately.
In my opinion, a deposit is insurance that a custom boat, built especially to a client's standards is sellable on the open market for close to what was offered to the original client. Say you build a custom purple and green boat, exactly like it was drawn for a guy who needs to back out. Well, I keep the deposit until the boat sells. I had a committment for the boat, likely wouldn't have made it purple and green if I was building it for stock and now need to sell it to someone who didn't pick it. If there is a loss to be taken, or the need to discount because of the colors... the deposit is there to make it right. Most builders don't even make that deposit refundable. I do, but upon the sale of the boat.
If there is no cash outlay so far... it is inconceivable to me that his money is being retained.

[andy01]

Andy, did the builder make it a non refundable deposit?
All builders do, well almost all builders. It won't hold in court in Ca. the DMV does not allow it.
Andy

[andy01]

He needs to get his money back immediately.
In my opinion, a deposit is insurance that a custom boat, built especially to a client's standards is sellable on the open market for close to what was offered to the original client. Say you build a custom purple and green boat, exactly like it was drawn for a guy who needs to back out. Well, I keep the deposit until the boat sells. I had a committment for the boat, likely wouldn't have made it purple and green if I was building it for stock and now need to sell it to someone who didn't pick it. If there is a loss to be taken, or the need to discount because of the colors... the deposit is there to make it right. Most builders don't even make that deposit refundable. I do, but upon the sale of the boat.
If there is no cash outlay so far... it is inconceivable to me that his money is being retained.
That's the way it should be.
Good post.

[me4drvr]

Just because they build $200k boats, doesnt necesarily mean they have the cash laying around.
If you're building a 200k surfboard, they have cash.... otherwise they shouldn't be building 200k boats... might as well of bought a boat from Team Hawaiian....

[Rocknpalms]

I used to own a Sandrail shop for about 8 years and was on the other side of the same type of deal.
We would loose some sales if the customer waiting list got too long as the customers would want the toys now durning the season and would purchase a sub standard car or a used car in order to enjoy it now. How can you blame them. So in other words that spot on the calendar could cost us money in cars not sold. So not to refund the deposit made sense to the shop.
Well I tried to keep a $1000.00 deposit as lost income.
It was removed from my bank account from the customers credit card company. I did not have a contract stating non refundable deposit. So if you did not sign a non refundable deposit call you credit card company and file a disput. I think you will find that you get your money rather quick.

[Dave C]

If no cash or effort has been expended on the project the judge will order the refund so fast it will make the builders head spin.......
They are so far out how could they reasonably claim there are any losses at this point.
I would cancel it in writing and specifically acknowledge that the client is aware no work has been done to date and demand they return the funds ASAP. OR else.

[andy01]

Oh and this would be the customers third boat from said builder..............
Andy

[riverbound]

If you're building a 200k surfboard, they have cash.... otherwise they shouldn't be building 200k boats... might as well of bought a boat from Team Hawaiian....
Althought that should be the case it isnt that way with MOST builders;)

[OutCole'd]

Oh and this would be the customers third boat from said builder..............
Andy
:eek: Man that sucks.
Should not even be questioning it at this point.

[Dave C]

I disagree... the deposit is ernest money for performance and to cover actual damages not hypothetical damages.
I used to own a Sandrail shop for about 8 years and was on the other side of the same type of deal.
We would loose some sales if the customer waiting list got too long as the customers would want the toys now durning the season and would purchase a sub standard car or a used car in order to enjoy it now. How can you blame them. So in other words that spot on the calendar could cost us money in cars not sold. So not to refund the deposit made sense to the shop.
Well I tried to keep a $1000.00 deposit as lost income.
It was removed from my bank account from the customers credit card company. I did not have a contract stating non refundable deposit. So if you did not sign a non refundable deposit call you credit card company and file a disput. I think you will find that you get your money rather quick.

[riverroyal]

Oh and this would be the customers third boat from said builder..............
Andy
have a builder

[jbtrailerjim]

He needs to get his money back immediately.
In my opinion, a deposit is insurance that a custom boat, built especially to a client's standards is sellable on the open market for close to what was offered to the original client. Say you build a custom purple and green boat, exactly like it was drawn for a guy who needs to back out. Well, I keep the deposit until the boat sells. I had a committment for the boat, likely wouldn't have made it purple and green if I was building it for stock and now need to sell it to someone who didn't pick it. If there is a loss to be taken, or the need to discount because of the colors... the deposit is there to make it right. Most builders don't even make that deposit refundable. I do, but upon the sale of the boat.
If there is no cash outlay so far... it is inconceivable to me that his money is being retained.
I think it is fair to hold on to a deposit until the boat sells if the build is already started and the original customer backs out. I think it is bullshit for any builder to make a deposit non refundable if the build has not even been started yet.
The 5 g's has been spent on another build or to cover their overhead. The builder is just buying time until they can come up with the money. Just because they build high end boats and are possibly reputable builder, it does not mean they can't have money problems and there cash flow is not doing so well right now.

[OutCole'd]

have a builder
I'm thinking the same thing.:idea:

[riverbound]

Oh and this would be the customers third boat from said builder..............
Andy
Without dropping any names I know of quite a few stories where a builder hs tried to "pull fast ones" on repeat customers.

[Kilrtoy]

POST THE NAME OR SHUT THE FOCK UP ANDY....
COME ONNNNNNN.......................
Oh by the way we will drop that stuff tommorrow

[Phat Matt]

Don't Credit Back? :2purples: ;)

[ChumpChange]

I'm thinking the same thing.:idea:
I think we all are at this point. You can go ahead and say it first though.:D

[andy01]

POST THE NAME OR SHUT THE FOCK UP ANDY....
COME ONNNNNNN.......................
Oh by the way we will drop that stuff tommorrow
There's no we in this deal........ unless your talking about me and .......
Oh hey thanks alot man. I will have something for you guys the next time I see you..... :D I appreciate it. I won't be out till the next weekend.
Andy

[OutCole'd]

I think we all are at this point. You can go ahead and say it first though.:D
I'm on the phone with him now.

[MBlaster]

Riverbound hit it. I'd call the builder and demand my card be credited less any fees. If there was no action I'd dispute the charge and let the builder get hammered by the bank.

[RiverDave]

Don't Credit Back? :2purples: ;)
LMAO!!! :D
RD

[YeLLowBoaT]

1 year out and nothing has been done... document every thing. If they being a hard ass, give them a choice, pay up or deal with my lawyer. you would be amazed at how the word "lawyer" works to open wallets faster then a women at a 90% off shoe sale.

[Kilrtoy]

Don't Credit Back? :2purples: ;)
OH NO, this is gonna get good

[riverroyal]

to me thats crazy,i couldnt do it.I waited 10 days and was going insane

[Kilrtoy]

to me thats crazy,i couldnt do it.I waited 10 days and was going insane
Magic must be really busy to have a 10 day waiting period....
last time I was in there they built a boat in 10 minutes from SCRATCH:D :D :D :D

[rivercrazy]

To me a builder that takes a deposit to secure a spot in their build list that far out is off the charts ARROGANT. That builder is in for a very rude awakening somewhere down the road. To think their product is that much better than competing builders indicates their head is so big it wouldn't fit through a warehouse garage door. Customer service is not about controlling the customer based on some head in the clouds opinion on their own product. Customer service is about taking every step possible to deliver a product to the client they are happy with in a reasonable turnaround time. To ask for a deposit in this manner is an indicator that their business model is in reverse polarity.......

[OutCole'd]

Don't Credit Back? :2purples: ;)
:D Classic

[MBlaster]

Damn Cocky Bastards.

[riverroyal]

Magic must be really busy to have a 10 day waiting period....
last time I was in there they built a boat in 10 minutes from SCRATCH:D :D :D :D
they were very busy.My point was that I couldnt wait a year for a boat,even a DCB:D

[tamalewagon]

Ding! Ding!
I'd like the name of the POS Builder Also!.....Just So I, and others don't make the Same MISTAKE!
Look at his public profile and you'll get your answer. :D

[rivercrazy]

Deeply Conceited Boatbuilder?????

[phebus]

What is the buyer going to do with that beautifull engine he bought for it? :D

[Havasu1986]

Oh and this would be the customers third boat from said builder..............
Andy
Is your 2nd DCB still for sale. :eek: :D

[beaverretriever]

I wouldn't even offer to pay the fees on the credit card. If the builder is even halfway smart with their money they are making 5%+ on that 5k why the poor bastard waits 6 months+ for a boat that doesn't even exsist yet except maybe on paper.
If a builder is really still that BUSY (6+ months out), they need to higher more people. If they are 6 months out they don't have that "down time" everyone talks about then they can keep a full crew yr around. Other builders like to get a little behind 2-3 months, becuse when the winter 1/4 comes, they don't have to lay people off. If a builder is truely 6+ months out, that 6 months pulls them all the way through winter and fall. They can afford to higher a few more bodies to get things going. All and all, I would think a company would start losing business even for a higher end product ( I am assuming higher end).

[TOBTEK]

Probably his first too. :D
thats funny.... his first did pop up forsale again.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/89952908.htm

[beaverretriever]

I've had this discussion with the owner of a well known sandcar company, probably one of the most well known. I suggested that he might want to step up production if he was really 18 months out. He said "No, it keeps demand up, keeps resell up and people won't ask for their money back because they can sell their spot in line if they need to back out."
You have a good point. I honestly shouldn't talk. Harley is trying to build up a wait again right now. I think it is good for a company to a degree.
Isn't there a point where you start to lose money because your production is low. You need some volume to make money no matter what you build or sell; watches, diamonds, cars, electronics.
Seriously, it does come to a point where it is ridiculous. 6+ months for some fiberglass and a big engine. At least sandcars demand a ton of welding and fab. Not saying I could build a boat, or maybe I could. I guess if you can make people wait, why not?

[vmjtc3]

In my opinion, the refund is due. When they agreed after the first call to refund the deposit.

[phebus]

I'm thinking the same thing.:idea:
Orange you glad it wasn't you? :D

[Kyote]

He gave me the impression that they made people wait because it was better for business. Personally, I'm a bird in the hand kind of guy. I like to deliver and get paid because I know if you don't, people will go elsewhere.
I guess that you will never own a new Schiada Bob!

[CoolCruzinCobra]

What's the thing with not to mention the builders name.
Hell if the so called builder(s) not good let's not keep it a secret .
Just never had a bad experience.And I think is from what I hear that would go around who's good or who bad.
This is useless with out name(s)
Post it up !

[Nord]

What's the thing with not to mention the builders name.
Hell if the so called builder(s) not good let's not keep it a secret .
Just never had a bad experience.And I think is from what I hear that would go around who's good or who bad.
This is useless with out name(s)
Post it up !
Read the whole thread..........You'll figure it out ;)

[3 daytona`s]

Oh and this would be the customers third boat from said builder..............
Andy
#3 Boat well he is an adult:idea:

[ratso]

What's the thing with not to mention the builders name.
Hell if the so called builder(s) not good let's not keep it a secret .
Just never had a bad experience.And I think is from what I hear that would go around who's good or who bad.
This is useless with out name(s)
Post it up !
Newbies...:rolleyes:
:D

[CoolCruzinCobra]

Yep!

[Tom Brown]

..... they were not making any money on your build because your price was a “bro deal�?
You're a good guy so they knocked 25K off the price. lmao! :D
The only 'bro deal' going is when someone throws you a beer from their cooler without charging you. Even then, if you do it too many times, they will start to get crabby.

[MBlaster]

The only 'bro deal' going is when someone throws you a beer from their cooler without charging you. Even then, if you do it too many times, they will start to get crabby.
:D Classic.

[uLtRADeNniS]

Stand up for sure. A lot of people on the boards don't like him, not sure why.
I wouldn't say I don't like him.. But I would say he's a little arrogant and had a shitty attitude when I tried talking with him. ...No hard feelings towards the guy, maybe he was having a bad day, like diarrhea or something.:D

[Havasu1986]

I wouldn't say I don't like him.. But I would say he's a little arrogant and had a shitty attitude when I tried talking with him. ...No hard feelings towards the guy, maybe he was having a bad day, like diarrhea or something.:D
Are we talking about Andy01 or Dory from Dominator. :confused: :D

[DAB]

Without question the deposit should be refunded 100 percent. There's no loss of anything here from the builder.. As I think Froggy stated, if a hull's been built then I would think the deposit would be held until that boat is sold, that is if it is a lime green & purple boat..:D Other than that, I'd be calling the CC company let them know you cancelled your purchase that is 1 year away and get my money back.. Good luck.

[ratso]

Sometimes you just gotta go with an ass whoopin'...:idea:

[Tom Brown]

Sometimes you just gotta go with an ass whoopin'...:idea:
The keystone teaching of Ratsotology is that all problems and solutions emanate from the ass region.

[Kilrtoy]

Are we talking about Andy01 or Dory from Dominator. :confused: :D
I think its Andy on this one

[mbrown2]

What did the contract say regarding the deposit?

[riverbound]

What's the thing with not to mention the builders name.
Hell if the so called builder(s) not good let's not keep it a secret .
Just never had a bad experience.And I think is from what I hear that would go around who's good or who bad.
This is useless with out name(s)
Post it up !
For some reason people are afraid to share their bad experiences, that they have had with this builder. Im not sure why they feel it necessary to protect him, after the builder tried to screw them over. but I can say I have heard quite a few people not very happy upon pick up. but can you really blame the builder, he gets them to come back over and over again, so obviously he is doing something right.

[Kilrtoy]

I wish I was in your shoes, I paid in full for my new boat, they got a lot more done then your builder did, but it's still not done
So that is how they built those other, 4 FORCES, ahead of yours

[mbrown2]

[QUOTE=andy01;2763912]
I would walk away from the 5k if coming up with 195k was bothering me!
That's funny!:)

[mbrown2]

thats funny.... his first did pop up forsale again.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/89952908.htm
Looks like they switched the roots out for a whipple efi setup....suprised they would not have been able to close the hatch sleeper style..

[bigq]

thats funny.... his first did pop up forsale again.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/89952908.htm
Wasn't that A GT motor and rig job?:rolleyes:

[XTRM22]

Wasn't that A GT motor and rig job?:rolleyes:
I was just gonna post the same thing, I know it was rigged at GT, I thought it was one of their motors too.
Chuck

[dirty old man]

In many states, small claims court is the best way to go. Just the threat (when the sheriff hands him the summons) will usually get you a check quickly

[socalmofo]

Let's play jeopardy!
Booked for a year
200k boat
"BRO Deal"
What is DCB??????????

[Froggystyle]

Not to get in the middle of any manufacturer bashing, which I am all in favor of under most circumstances... but remember there are always three sides to a story...
If the story got changed from "I'll get that right out to you" to "I need to sell your spot" in actuality... that is bunk. However, if the real story is more along the lines of... "I'll get you back your deposit, but I can't right now... I need to sell your spot to get the cash" then I am actually fine with that.
There is no difference to a builder between $5K for a deposit and $5K for overhead or $5K for parts. It goes in the bank and we spend it. It is an earnest deposit, and with things as tight as they are these days, I honestly couldn't refund a $5K deposit until next Wednesday right now, but I would tell you as much. If I counted on building your boat, and planned on following through with my end of the bargain then I think it is completely reasonable to expect some flexibility with regard to an immediate refund.
All that said, if I hadn't started work on a boat, I would have retained any good faith deposit in a separate account to be able to repay immediately. The two times I have taken deposits for boats not built yet, I took the deposit the morning I wrote the check for gelcoat... not to say it will always be like that, but I don't want to put myself in the above situation at this point in the game.
In any case, if the builder is who I think it is, and the buyer is who I think it is... neither has anything to worry about. The builder will pay up without having to deal with a lawyer or court or anything, and the buyer probably did get a good enough deal to be a bit more patient.
I know it isn't Hot Boat style, but the need to circle wagons isn't there in this case. Knowing both imaginary parties in this hypothetical situation... it will be resolved professionally and within the scope of what we will all deem is right in the long run.

[phebus]

In any case, if the builder is who I think it is, and the buyer is who I think it is... neither has anything to worry about. The builder will pay up without having to deal with a lawyer or court or anything, and the buyer probably did get a good enough deal to be a bit more patient.
If that is the case, I wonder why the need for an "extortion" thread. :confused:

[RiverDave]

Wasn't that A GT motor and rig job?:rolleyes:
I was just gonna post the same thing, I know it was rigged at GT, I thought it was one of their motors too.
Chuck
If that is Andy's old boat I'm pretty sure it was a Teague 740, but the boat was rigged at GT Marine..
Guy must not like GT Marine, as it looks like they even pulled the "GT" center cap off the steering wheel and replaced it with a blank.. LOL
That's just going off memory though so don't quote me on it.
RD

[TOBTEK]

To clear the air.... Yes, said company says it Did Credited Back the money. ( hasn't posted to the account yet although.. per Mr Amx Representative)
This whole thing baffles me.
WHY would a well known builder stall in refunding a insignificant 5K? When NOTHING had been done for this project? If anything had been done or started, it would be another story. FUNNY when I asked for his statement in writing that he would refund the money "after he sold the spot" So I could take it to the DMV to check the legality, he agreed to do so.
Why say "no problem" the week before, and then say something different the next? If I was the business owner, I would have said " no problem, come see me when business gets better" He knows I would probably buy one down the road. What else am I going to do with a GT Efi quad motor? Heck of a paper weight.
WHY not just move all the people on this long waiting list up one notch? Maybe more and more cancellations??? Maybe the list isn't so long anymore??
Why ruffle the feathers of a buyer? If you do, he's NOT coming back. EVER. And over something so small.... you know others are going to hear of the bad service, and may cost you sales. Not smart in my book.
Its really a shame this person runs the business as he does, I know COUNTLESS owners of this nameplate that are just sick and tired of the business conduct of this company. from the buying process, build, and after care/or lack of .
WHY is this treatment so hush hush? Not wanting to damage the resale market??
I would take an act of God for me to ever buy a new product form this company again. Its to bad, IMO its the best all around cat for Havasu ( maybe was soon). Maybe a clean used one when the time comes. Sure makes Tony at Eliminator offers for their new 28/29 cat they are tooling really attractive. Maybe jump on the tritoon band wagon like everyone else??
And no need to keep calling Mr business owner(since we know you are reading this), you have unfortunately did me wrong one last time. very interesting all the emails and calls over this issue already from other owners of your product. Remember that Email I send you last year about lack of customer service?? Time for new business practices! When your demanding the prices you do, you cant treat people in this manner.
OK, back to your regular scheduled ***boat drama. :D Like who cut off Mig this weekend at 120Mph :)

[jbtrailerjim]

To clear the air.... Yes, said company says it Did Credited Back the money. ( hasn't posted to the account yet although.. per Mr Amx Representative)
This whole thing baffles me.
WHY would a well known builder stall in refunding a insignificant 5K? When NOTHING had been done for this project? If anything had been done or started, it would be another story. FUNNY when I asked for his statement in writing that he would refund the money "after he sold the spot" So I could take it to the DMV to check the legality, he agreed to do so.
Why say "no problem" the week before, and then say something different the next? If I was the business owner, I would have said " no problem, come see me when business gets better" He knows I would probably buy one down the road. What else am I going to do with a GT Efi quad motor? Heck of a paper weight.
WHY not just move all the people on this long waiting list up one notch? Maybe more and more cancellations??? Maybe the list isn't so long anymore??
Why ruffle the feathers of a buyer? If you do, he's NOT coming back. EVER. And over something so small.... you know others are going to hear of the bad service, and may cost you sales. Not smart in my book.
Its really a shame this person runs the business as he does, I know COUNTLESS owners of this nameplate that are just sick and tired of the business conduct of this company. from the buying process, build, and after care/or lack of .
WHY is this treatment so hush hush? Not wanting to damage the resale market??
I would take an act of God for me to ever buy a new product form this company again. Its to bad, IMO its the best all around cat for Havasu ( maybe was soon). Maybe a clean used one when the time comes. Sure makes Tony at Eliminator offers for their new 28/29 cat they are tooling really attractive. Maybe jump on the tritoon band wagon like everyone else??
And no need to keep calling Mr business owner(since we know you are reading this), you have unfortunately did me wrong one last time. very interesting all the emails and calls over this issue already from other owners of your product. Remember that Email I send you last year about lack of customer service?? Time for new business practices! When your demanding the prices you do, you cant treat people in this manner.
OK, back to your regular scheduled ***boat drama. :D Like who cut off Mig this weekend at 120Mph :)
Maybe the saying I heard from a fellow owner of this particular brand of boat a long time ago is true?
Don'tComeBack
;)

[Kilrtoy]

OK, back to your regular scheduled ***boat drama. :D Like who cut off Mig this weekend at 120Mph :)
WHAT THE HELL!
I havent even hit the water yet and i am already getting cut off.
Its ok i'll be in the toon this weekend and ramming speed is on....:D

[TOBTEK]

watch out.....Andy and I are going to ram the jetski's into you:) When's the last time you spent 20.00 for a whole days gas? Digging the stand up.

[Jordy]

Hey Toby... stop hatin' :D

[TOBTEK]

Hey Toby... stop hatin' :D
add me to the HATER list. :) guess Chris and Jody weren't to far off base. Guess I owe them an apology
:D

[riverroyal]

interesting stuff.:D

[AZJD]

Maybe the saying I heard from a fellow owner of this particular brand of boat a long time ago is true?
Don'tComeBack
;)
LMAO! Exactly what I was thinking....:D

[TOBTEK]

interesting stuff.:D
VERY interesting. Pretty sad really, knowing you can treat people in this manner and most will keep coming back for more and more:confused:

[OutCole'd]

VERY interesting. Pretty sad really, knowing you can treat people in this manner and most will keep coming back for more and more:confused:
Hell, how many have you bought?? I guess you're right......:D

[TOBTEK]

Hell, how many have you bought?? I guess you're right......:D
my two, almost three is nothing. I have a buddy that is on # 6 or so, and all he does is complain about this guy and poor quality on his last build. And wants another ??????

[phebus]

my two, almost three is nothing. I have a buddy that is on # 6 or so, and all he does is complain about this guy and poor quality on his last build. And wants another ??????
Social status is a bitch. :D

[OutCole'd]

Social status is a bitch. :D
So is stupidity.:D :D

[BADAXE]

Sounds like the kool-aid has a bitter after taste.
It must be the price you pay for having a boat that goes over 63mph on kill.:rolleyes:

[mbrown2]

Maybe they retained the deposit for Tire Kicking fee:)
It had to cover the cost of tire replacements over the last 5 years..

[rivercrazy]

Where's all the DCB cheerleaders at ? :D :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

Where's all the DCB cheerleaders at ? :D :D
Practicing thier spin outs.

[topless]

Practicing thier spin outs.Or pulling their boats out of the reeds.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Or pulling their boats out of the reeds.
That how you know you did it right.

[rivercrazy]

Where are all the DCB rappers at?
Must be out racing on the ocean! :D

[andy01]

Toby is not some one off pissed off customer here. I would like to state I have heard more and more people upset with this builder. Nobody wants to say anything negitive for fear they won't be able to sell their boat. I understand that when people are on the top everybody wants to knock them down. I spoke in length yesterday with this builder and some of the issues. How far it went who knows. After talking to him yesterday it seems as though he has good intentions, but we'll see from other customers in the future. If it keeps up at it's current rate I would say a lot will not go back for their second, third of so on boat............. :eek:
Andy

[Community]

You should have spammed your spot and deposit money here on the boards. Make money coming and going. Just a thought.

[Keith E. Sayre]

7 years ago when I worked here at Magic we did a boat and the colors came
out wrong, the customer had waited and wanted to buy a used boat so we
gave him his money back. Another guy got served papers and was getting
a divorce we gave him his money back. Two years ago while at Conquest,
a guy lost his job, we gave him his money back and his boat was half built.
I don't see the problem here.
Keith Sayre

[It's Only Money]

Keith - the problem is ARROGANCE. Pure and simple. Another local boat builder in SoCal has the following deposit rules:
$10,000 buys a fixed spot in his production schedule. If you haven't sold your old boat (assuming you need to) he gives your spot to the next in line and you get bumped back a spot.
1/3 of the remaining when the boat goes into the mold.
Second 1/3 of the remaining (after deposit) when the motor is ordered.
Last 1/3 upon delivery.
Maybe the original poster's $5,000 was used to finance another, more sinister endeavor or habit as many arrogant folks in the papers lately have done?

[Froggystyle]

7 years ago when I worked here at Magic we did a boat and the colors came
out wrong, the customer had waited and wanted to buy a used boat so we
gave him his money back. Another guy got served papers and was getting
a divorce we gave him his money back. Two years ago while at Conquest,
a guy lost his job, we gave him his money back and his boat was half built.
I don't see the problem here.
Keith Sayre
Same planet... different world. That is huge that your company can do that, but not everyone can. There is certainly something to be said for buying a product from a company that can afford to refund you your deposit mid-build.
My margins and finances would currently not allow that personally. If I had the ability to do that, should the need ever arise, I would. As it stands now though, I invest quite a bit of my own net worth into every custom boat we build, and just don't have the resources yet to be able to write that check at the drop of a hat.
As I said, I hope there is more to the story, because this manufacturer is one of only a small handful that I would refer people to that just weren't into our boat. Others have fallen off the list based on past treatment of clients, and the list is dwindling.

[Froggystyle]

Keith - the problem is ARROGANCE. Pure and simple. Another local boat builder in SoCal has the following deposit rules:
$10,000 buys a fixed spot in his production schedule. If you haven't sold your old boat (assuming you need to) he gives your spot to the next in line and you get bumped back a spot.
1/3 of the remaining when the boat goes into the mold.
Second 1/3 of the remaining (after deposit) when the motor is ordered.
Last 1/3 upon delivery.
That's nice, but unless they are paying cash that is a non-starter. You absolutely cannot finance a boat in construction on any loan program in America currently. For the half of my clients that are financing boats, all I can expect is 10% down and the rest COD. If you are paying cash for a boat, I offer you a discount that is commensurate with the money I save not having to factor the build of your boat.
Maybe the original poster's $5,000 was used to finance another, more sinister endeavor or habit as many arrogant folks in the papers lately have done?
I think that is some pretty serious speculation right there, and completely unwarranted given the current information.

[andy01]

I just recieved another PM from a owner that thinks I should drag this companys name throught the mud.
I didn't start this thread to try and make a builder look bad, I didn't start this thread as a threat against the builder to give the customer their money back. What happen here was a lack of judgement on the builders part and I thought others could learn from it.
I still like reading what builders and customers post. I don't care for the drama that goes on here. I am not here to make poeple look like ass's, they do it on their own. I enjoy Hot Boat and boating in general. I take the boating hobby very serious, to the point that I am in the industry. I do loans, insurance and help put buyers with sellers together. I know almost all builders on a first name basis at the boat show. I know what would and should happen on a deposit, the right thing doesn't always happen though.
I started this thread for people that haven't bought a lot of custom, built to order boats. I started this so the average lurker, reader, or poster could learn from others and see what is normal on a deposit type order.
I thank Kieth and Wes for posting on the builders side of the fence.
I am not alingned with any builder, I will post good or bad about any builder. That's just me, customer first. Word at the river or on the internet go a long way on a experience...... good or bad.
Andy

[mbrown2]

I think its kind of chiken s h i t to hide behind the viel of the nameless and speak about PM's from others and talk on others behalf....its heresay at that point..
If we are talking about DCB, I had a good experience with them before and after the sales...and I am not a baller by any means....definitely on the smaller side of their customer balance sheet.....But not all customers have had a good experience...they are not immortal.
Havasu Cig never had a problem with calling them out and having the balls to do so online..he also had a leg to stand on in his story and dealings even after I heard both sides of the story..
At least have the balls to call people out instead of begging the question..

[jh4rt]

I don't know the answer. I can tell you that I have had a deposit with a builder for over 10 years. He built the bottom of my boat, and a deck prototype. Between financial issues and really not liking the boat, I canceled my order. He still has the boat sitting there and he still has my money. I guess I would love to have some/all of it back, but.... I don't. I've asked a couple of times, and he has promised me that I could have a credit (for some or all) or he would give me (some or all) back when/if he sold the boat.
So, I'm not sure the answer. I guess if I gave someone a deposit just to hold my spot in line and they wouldn't give me the money back even if I got out of line, I wouldn't be ok with that at all. In my case, the money is sitting in the boat which is sitting with him... so... I'm not complaining too much.
jmho

[socalmofo]

I think its kind of chiken s h i t to hide behind the viel of the nameless and speak about PM's from others and talk on others behalf....its heresay at that point..
Good point.

[mbrown2]

Good point.
I am not defending so called builder (Toby or Andy), just trying earn some brownie points for the BRO DEAL once they start making center console V's with outboards :)

[jbtrailerjim]

Nobody wants to say anything negitive for fear they won't be able to sell their boat.
This comment cracks me up. What a freakin joke. If this was the case with boat owners not being able to re-sell boats because something negative was said on Hot Boat, Commander & Kachina owners would never be able to re-sell their boats. ;) But these boat mfg. I just mentioned don't have that famous slogan to live up to either. Everybody knows DCB's are the "Worlds Best". ;)

[XTRM22]

I think its kind of chiken s h i t to hide behind the viel of the nameless and speak about PM's from others and talk on others behalf....its heresay at that point..
If we are talking about DCB, I had a good experience with them before and after the sales...and I am not a baller by any means....definitely on the smaller side of their customer balance sheet.....But not all customers have had a good experience...they are not immortal.
Havasu Cig never had a problem with calling them out and having the balls to do so online..he also had a leg to stand on in his story and dealings even after I heard both sides of the story..
At least have the balls to call people out instead of begging the question..
I'm gonna agree with Brown here, we're up to what 6 pages of this, I don't know how long from the time customer asked for deposit back, that builder completed the transaction, The whole "sure we'll refund you right away" to "we have to sell your place in line" conversations seem like a mistake on the builders part, but as a contractor who takes deposits to confirm aproval of a contract and to help pay for materials, if a customer changes their mind before I've started the job or bought any materials, I'll certainly refund them back but it might take a few days and none of my customers have ever been uncomfortable with that.
Everybody who reads this whole thread know who your talkin about now stand up and say "I have a problem with the way DCB handled this issue and I want everybody to know about it" because all the pussy footin around and hearsay storys about other unhappy customers and is just candy@ss way of expressing this whole thing.
Chuck

[speedneeder]

Maybe Bush will also sign a bill helping out people who leave deposits on boats and have a change of heart.;)

[andy01]

I'm gonna agree with Brown here, we're up to what 6 pages of this, I don't know how long from the time customer asked for deposit back, that builder completed the transaction, The whole "sure we'll refund you right away" to "we have to sell your place in line" conversations seem like a mistake on the builders part, but as a contractor who takes deposits to confirm aproval of a contract and to help pay for materials, if a customer changes their mind before I've started the job or bought any materials, I'll certainly refund them back but it might take a few days and none of my customers have ever been uncomfortable with that.
Everybody who reads this whole thread know who your talkin about now stand up and say "I have a problem with the way DCB handled this issue and I want everybody to know about it" because all the pussy footin around and hearsay storys about other unhappy customers and is just candy@ss way of expressing this whole thing.
Chuck
Maybe you and Brown didn't read my post of why I started this thread. I didn't start it to slander a builder. People will figure out and come to their own conclusions on stuff. I still do business with the builder so why would I slander him? Or his company? I personely at this time have nothing to slander the builder or his name over. If I did you can bet I would post it.
This was not my deposit.
Andy

[TOBTEK]

I think its kind of chiken s h i t to hide behind the viel of the nameless and speak about PM's from others and talk on others behalf....its heresay at that point..
If we are talking about DCB, I had a good experience with them before and after the sales...and I am not a baller by any means....definitely on the smaller side of their customer balance sheet.....But not all customers have had a good experience...they are not immortal.
Havasu Cig never had a problem with calling them out and having the balls to do so online..he also had a leg to stand on in his story and dealings even after I heard both sides of the story..
At least have the balls to call people out instead of begging the question..
NOTHING chicken shitz about this Mike, there was no hiding behind anything. I was told this whole "have to sell your spot THING" By Dave him self. A week after it was originally NO PROBLEM. And Andy addressed this forum to see if this would fly if it was any of you. Never started as a bash DCB thing ( but usually turns into one on here). But its NO secret among the DCB owners that many haven't been treated in a manner appropriate to the level of expense demanded and paid...PERIOD.
Now, Dave did get through on the phone this morning at home. I received a very heart felt apology, and I do believe it was sincere. Dave is a great guy on a personal level. ( still have no idea what his speech at the regatta was about though ?? :D ) He apologized over this issue, and agreed he was in the wrong. Now weather or not this thread had any bearing on that apology ??? I think the responses from the majority of people in this thread would make an owner look twice on how you treat the people that make your business possible. Dave has done an amazing job building a quality product, and following in a very short period of time. Andy and both have spoke to him about the common "ending balance" at completion of the build. I have spoke with many owners and this ISN'T uncommon. He/They need to implement a change order to the orig contract and have the customer sign off. I and many others have been offered a new trick item, and never told it would cost anything until the day of delivery. Thats just wrong. More communication is needed in that department.
Quality control is another area that needs addressing. I was told flat out that I was being " to picky" when going over my 26:confused: They need ONE GUY responsible for the overall condition of the finished product. Have a buddy that went to pick up his new boat last year with family in the truck, on the way to the river. Boat wasn't even done, after he called and was told it was. Interior wasn't installed, wasn't detailed, and items on the punch list weren't completed. I still have a few items on my old 26 they never fixed, that were on the orig punch list. That kept getting shuffled off.
Dave and staff are a good group of people, I think he is going through some major growing pains. He/they need to to flat out tell some of his customers NO you cant built it like that. Example... if you build a F32 with big power, You cant use bravos. Its just a matter of time before you pop the drives. Now there are a few of these out there and the customers are pissed cause they keep breaking drives. Try to order a Skater with Bravo's... probably wont happen with peter around. Maybe a few less billet steps, and use the money for appropriate drives.
facility... it would be nice to able to take your 150-500,000.00 boat in for service or warranty work without getting a call demanding you come get it right now because they don't have any room for it:confused: Where are we to take 35 or whatever feet of trailer on a Tuesday? They need some space. have the boat clean when when the customer is picking it up.. I have picked up both of my DCB's and had to detail them. Dirty hand prints. saw dust in the bilge, zip ties behind the seats, ect. Not going to fly at this level!
IF this was an isolated incident Mike it wouldn't be an issue. BUT this is a problem among MANY of the owners. I have no personal vendetta against Dave or his company. I would love to own a new F29, have stated above I fill its the best all around cat for Havasu.( already have the motor for it:( ) They simply need to tighten up their operation. After talking with Mr H this morning, i think some thing will change for the better. Only time will tell.

[mbrown2]

What else am I going to do with a GT Efi quad motor? Heck of a paper weight.
Toby, I got 5 grand for the motor...whud ya think? :) j/k....
j/k...hopefully you coming clean might change the way you or other customers are handled in the future...:)

[hasselhoff]

I would like to give another perspective on the builder getting bashed here. I have owned several DCB's and these guys have always been great to deal with. They have delivered on time every time. Quality has always been unmatched. If something did come up they jumped on it. Personally, I have always been really pleased with how much after the sale customer service they have given. I would recomend DCB to anybody considering a high end boat and I plan on buying from them again in the future.
Building boats that cost this much means their customers are going to have extremely high expectations. That's pressure I wouldn't want. No matter how hard they try, you obviously can't please everyone 100% of the time but based on the extremely loyal customer base and repeat customers I think these guys come as close as your going to find. Based on my expereince with Dave and the crew they will make it right. :) :)

[3 daytona`s]

I just recieved another PM from a owner that thinks I should drag this companys name throught the mud.
I didn't start this thread to try and make a builder look bad, I didn't start this thread as a threat against the builder to give the customer their money back. What happen here was a lack of judgement on the builders part and I thought others could learn from it.
I still like reading what builders and customers post. I don't care for the drama that goes on here. I am not here to make poeple look like ass's, they do it on their own. I enjoy Hot Boat and boating in general. I take the boating hobby very serious, to the point that I am in the industry. I do loans, insurance and help put buyers with sellers together. I know almost all builders on a first name basis at the boat show. I know what would and should happen on a deposit, the right thing doesn't always happen though.
I started this thread for people that haven't bought a lot of custom, built to order boats. I started this so the average lurker, reader, or poster could learn from others and see what is normal on a deposit type order.
I thank Kieth and Wes for posting on the builders side of the fence.
I am not alingned with any builder, I will post good or bad about any builder. That's just me, customer first. Word at the river or on the internet go a long way on a experience...... good or bad.
Andy
There is no need to mud sling,tell it like it is and the drama queens can go beat their head against the wall.

[boatnam2]

There is no need to mud sling,tell it like it is and the drama queens can go beat their head against the wall.
boys just cant seem to decide if they like the tastes of dave's nuts or not.

[socalmofo]

Probably as he is a Mortgage guy, I am assuming that is why.

[Baja Big Dog]

I would like to give another perspective on the builder getting bashed here. I have owned several DCB's and these guys have always been great to deal with. They have delivered on time every time. Quality has always been unmatched. If something did come up they jumped on it. Personally, I have always been really pleased with how much after the sale customer service they have given. I would recomend DCB to anybody considering a high end boat and I plan on buying from them again in the future.
Building boats that cost this much means their customers are going to have extremely high expectations. That's pressure I wouldn't want. No matter how hard they try, you obviously can't please everyone 100% of the time but based on the extremely loyal customer base and repeat customers I think these guys come as close as your going to find. Based on my expereince with Dave and the crew they will make it right. :) :)
WOW..I think that an understatement, can you imagine people that pay 200K (and often time much more) for a boat and expect perfection???
This builder make alot of money..a lot of money on these people, and giving them what they pay for does not deserve a pat on the back.
The classic was the bro in laws brother, buys a 34 ft twin from the "builder", many problems, goes back to San Diego (form Havasu) numerous times, and coming around the island one morning the bro in law sees the new boat sunk on the shore!!! Panic breaks out, he call me, we need a big pump, the boat sunk, took them most of the day to seal up the vents and pump the water out...classic, something about not sealing something on one of the drives. But hey, they did make it right!!!

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

nobody beats a dead dog.:)

[TOBTEK]

Originally Posted by 2forcefull
can some one help me out here please,
why is this about the builder?
A guy puts a 5k deposit on a 200k boat thats takes a year to build
and people are standing in line to get one
the housing market takes a dump and the buy'r gets cold feet.
what does the housing market have to do with buy'n the boat?
I read a post about sell'n the spot in the spam section,
is that what is going on here?
is this spam?
is the buy'r look'n for a buy'r for the boat that the buy'r bought?
or is the buy'r not wanting to buy the boat cause of the housing market???
Nobody is selling the build spot. it was suggested by another forum member. the orig post was ONLY to ask the question "IF" this happened to you, would you be OK with it. It never mentioned the builder. BUT as things usually turn on here, it turned into another bash thread. The builder refunded the deposit the same day after a simi heated discussion. Manner over, done deal.

[boatnam2]

nobody beats a dead dog.:)
michael vick does:D

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

michael vick does:D
:jawdrop: Yeah but he is a dog.. and a punk..:D loser.. and so on..:D