SBC 434 - What block to use ?

[alien2]

Ready to build a 434 or 427 SBC, what's the best block to use ? I'm looking at maybe a Dart or Motown/World.
I'm looking for 600 + hp with a single 4 barrel and 91 octane. All I have so far is the 4" crank w/400 mains and 6" rods.
I'm leaning toward the Motown because it's already clearenced for the 4" crank.
Anybody got a preference and why ?

[MACHINEHEAD]

Grab the latest issue of engine masters magazine. My tall deck, spread rail, raised cam, aluminum Dart 427 is on the cover with some good info inside. You can PM me if you have some detailed questions. -Kevin Crocie

[alien2]

I looked for that Mag and haven't found it yet.
Anybody have any experience with a std. htg. steel block ? :( :(
Hp numbers ?
_____

[cfm]

Taking a quick look across the net I see many shops using the Dart Little M block for 600 and change hp 434's. For the bigger HP (800+) it looks like they use the Dart Iron Eagle blocks - raised cam and tall deck comes up often.
Just an internet 'window shopping' experience. So, take it for what it is.....not much. LOL.

[cfm]

Grab the latest issue of engine masters magazine. My tall deck, spread rail, raised cam, aluminum Dart 427 is on the cover with some good info inside. -Kevin Crocie
Sounds cool. Congrats for making the mag. I too will take a look for this.

[MACHINEHEAD]

Std. deck is fine. Just triple check the assembly. Use 1 rod and piston combo, no rings. Just set the crank in with 2 mains, install the cam and gears. Spin it, and wait for chit to bang into each other. Right of the bat I know JE has shelf flat tops w/1.000" pin height. I would also recomend a custom roller from comp or crane with a .860 base circle in the 8620 alloy, just to ensure max clearence, but you probably will still have to do some grinding. Or if you dont want to dick with all of that you could send it to me and I will custom build you a sweet combo. BTW the 427 made an easy 585hp on pump gas AFR 210, custom (way to small) dune buggy 750 carb and 1.875 headers. 467 ft/lbs at 2800rpm, over 500 ft/lbs from 3500 to 6100rpm with a peak of 562 at 4800 rpm. Over 500 hp from 4700 to a peak of 585 at 6200 and still pulling 582 at 6400 ( end of test ). And this with a small custom street roller. A 210 head on a 434 with 15 degrees more cam and a dominator 1050 would easily be in the 660 hp range at 6600 rpm

[vee-driven]

I used a donovan block for my 406 and i'm pulling about 600hp on pump gas, 11to1 pro topline 235cc heads and a .625 solid roller cam. This thing comes on like a light switch a 4000rpm and pulls to 8500rpm

[cfm]

Sorry to jump off topic but Machinehead brought up killer info on making power with this type of motor. Something to seriously think about.
That info being the new AFR 210 Eliminator head. IMHO, Just mentioning this alone means Machinehead knows what to use for big power.
On a different forum, these heads (AFR Eliminators in general) where being discussed . Joe Sherman jumped in and said the following:
This is just a teaser, but I have the new 210 version on a 408 cubic inch motor, pump gas bigger roller cam, and it is putting outin the 670 HP region but I think there is still some left yet. Torque is 575 lbs.I cant say more now.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
Granted, this is for a street car (not BOAT), but never the less, this is outstanding power for a pump gas, 23° heads, and just 408cid's. He's also getting a ton of power (615hp @6700) out of pump gas 383's with the smaller 195cc Eliminators.

[alien2]

I said, a 434, but it will be a 427. I think, why use up a bore size on a new
block. 4.125 X 4.00 W/6" rods JE flat top's W/1.0 ch World Block, Billet
caps
Head choice is between;
AFR 210 Eliminator's Alu. and Dart Pro1 Platinum 215's Alu.
It's for a light weight Jet boat and the RPM's will be between 3500 and 5600.
Will it make over 600+ HP with a Hyd. Roller or will I be leaving to much HP
laying on the table and need to go to a Solid Roller ?
Hyd. would be less maintance . . . . it needs to run top RPM for 1/2 hr or so.
_________

[cstraub]

Dart Block
210 to 220ish Head
Hyd roller for the rpm you want to run will be fine
Super Victor/Brodix/Dart style intake with plenum dividers
Your HP will vary as you are shooting for a lower rpm then most. On the conservative side you should be around 500 if you want to spin the engine higher then 550 to 600 range is possible. If you spin it higher I would go for a larger CC head around the 220 range.

[alien2]

cstraub69,
500 hp won't get me where I need to be.
I'm not worried about anything under 3500 rpm because a Jet flares to about 3500 just rolling over on plane.
I need to make the HP at 5200/5800 rpms. I was thinking a cam with around 620 lift and 240 duration.
I am not a cam expert. :confused: I was hoping someone on here was. :idea:
I may be wrong but I thought using a Hyd. Roller instead of a Solid Roller I would just loose some duration on take off do to the lifter squish.
One more question, why a Dart block over a World/Motown ?
_______-

[cfm]

Alien - here you go. Pull out the plastic and make a call.
http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/engines/434-pro-street.html
=====================
Only prob with that motor is iff you want to make more hp at a later date, then a cyl head change will prob be in your future.
It's hard for me to imagine a 434 SBC that is only meant to run at 5600rpm. Hard for the brain to think that way. LOL.

[Jungle Boy]

I have ran a 434 ci in my Eagle jetboat for several years and it has been a great motor.
- Dart Little "M" block.
- Dart Pro-Comp CNC heads
- Edelbrock 2529 intake
- Solid roller cam (don't know the specs anymore).
- 10.5 compression
- 850 Holly DP
This motor made 575 hp at 5450 RPM, over 400 ft/lbs from 4100 rpm up to 5600 rpm.
If you are planning to run hard on pump gas then plan on detonating pistons.
Avgas is cheap compared to rebuilding the engine.

[Unchained]

I'd say spring for the aluminum block.
I knuckled under when I got the Arias block I have now and never regretted it.
You're saving weight, repairable, not to mention the ultra cool factor.

[MACHINEHEAD]

I was thinking 660 but Joe could definitly get 10 more than me. Ha Ha Joe's the man! A hydro roller would have been fine in this engine but I wanted the bottom end crispness that a small solid street roller gives. Notice the power figures are with a 750 carb! This thing is in a mid engine dune buggy and has the throttle snap of a 1 litre street bike! The hydro roller would have softened the torque on the bottom. You dont need that with a jet boat. Pick whatever block you get the best deal on and pull the trigger. But run the AFR210 and the 240 ish hydro roller and enjoy 600 plus HP with a dominator.

[alien2]

MACHINEHEAD
I have talked to several cam company's, they all say something different. I sometimes wonder if I'm talking to the janitor or something . . .
Got any recommendations that would get me close ?
I've got a BG 850 on the shelf. how much HP will I be giving up over the Dominator ?
________

[IMPATIENT 1]

MACHINEHEAD
I have talked to several cam company's, they all say something different. I sometimes wonder if I'm talking to the janitor or something . . .
Got any recommendations that would get me close ?
I've got a BG 850 on the shelf. how much HP will I be giving up over the Dominator ?
________
cstraub is the cam man, get with him;)

[BOOGEYMAN]

Why not just build a 406 and use a standard chevy block? If 600 is the target a well done 406 will get you there and be way cheaper than a 427 for the same outcome.......
On the other hand if you are interested in that 434 from steve schmidt let me know and I can get you a much better price than is listed! :)
Travis