My Spectra can take rough water now!

[malcolm]

For years my 18 has beat the piss outta me in all but the smoothest water. I added a hokey little piece of aluminum under the bowl a few years ago and it helped just a tad, but not really. We were going to a big meet up here at Potholes res. for Labor day and I remembered the beating it/we took there last time. Then I saw the new rideplate Jetboy put on his Jacuzzi, why couldn't I do something like that? I went outside and found a chunk of aluminum a buddie had bent up for me as a tank test pattern last year. I cut the sides down and bolted it onto my existing mini plate.
http://home1.gte.net/res09phe/rideplate.jpg
I think it's set around 1-2* down. We got over there Friday afternoon and put it in. It made a huge difference! Now the nose just floats back down where it used to crash. We even hit some real rough stuff coming back from the beach Fri night and I could take it at almost WOT. After all these years it's an awesome change, best thing I've ever done to it! Only negative is it's so long reverse is all but gone, but I can live with it.

[JETBOY03]

i have to say it made a great deal of difference for me also, better in the rough and more stable at wot.

[Boostedballs]

I'm sold.
Hell, my reverse lever is binding up so bad I can't use it anyway! Besides, I have an electric troller hooked up to the jet and it has reverse.

[pw_Tony]

How well did your boat do in reverse after the rideplate?

[malcolm]

What reverse? :D
I think I'll try making a snoot for it and see if that helps get it back.

[riverbound]

that may actually work out really well for me as My pump sits much farther back then that and losing reverse might not be an issue.
Malcom, do you have the dimensons of the piece you did?

[Squirtin Thunder]

Bill I would contact Duane @ HTP and get one of his E-pump shoe and ride plate kits it will help out and not fatigue after a short period of time. Roostwear has one and it works very well. I also would not put any down angle to it, 2* up would work real well on that boat.

[malcolm]

It's 17"x13". Yeah every one gives me crap about how thin it is, how it's attached, it's adjusted wrong, etc. :D It was a last ditch attempt to save my back over the Labor day weekend and it worked! I'd like to refine it in the off season and make it more adjustable and stronger. Back on my home river it felt ok, but figured I could raise it up a bunch and get my wheelie back. ;)

[riverbound]

It's 17"x13". Yeah every one gives me crap about how thin it is, how it's attached, it's adjusted wrong, etc. :D It was a last ditch attempt to save my back over the Labor day weekend and it worked! I'd like to refine it in the off season and make it more adjustable and stronger. Back on my home river it felt ok, but figured I could raise it up a bunch and get my wheelie back. ;)
Thanks,
It will be a while before the boat sees water again. Its getting gutted and rerigged, new interior, alum. tanks, all the scratches/ stress cracks in the gel fixed, etc... now I have all the time in the world to get it done since its not my main boat. :D Let the Projects begin. it will be going to down to MPD and getting everyhting re-gone through once I am done and checking the bottom for hook, etc...

[MADDOG355]

I don't have pics but my Howard has a set of small manual trim tabs about 4x9 with 2 set screws in each one. If I want to be fast and don't mind a rough ride just back the screws out some, Or I can adjust them down untill I can run the divirter full up and still have a smooth ride.
Video.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=5560394

[malcolm]

OK, ya wanna get a good laugh? Here it is from the bottom.
http://home1.gte.net/res09phe/rideplate2.jpg
I wasn't sure what it would do when I got to the lake. I took off really carefully and started into a wave. It pitched up like usual and I was waiting for the crash as it came back down, it didn't happen. It just floated back down like it was landing on a pillow. I gave it more and more gas till I was sure I'd either rip it off or the crashing would come back. I'd guess out of 50 waves and rollers it only hit hard on 3 of them. I got more brave as the weekend progressed, and by Sunday I could run wide open across the lake at a whopping 54 mph. :rolleyes:

[sleekcrafter]

The add-a-shoe's have made more than one boat hook when the power is pulled. IMO they hang too deep below the keel, caution is needed after installing one, to see how the boat will react. The add on ride plates, such as the do it yourselfers are out there, and work fine for their intended porposes.

[Scarab Jet]

Question that I appreciate anyone's response to...
How do U decide how long and wide the ride plate should be?
And... are the bent-up edges on the ride plate for strength or is there another reason for them?
Thanx in advance...

[jetboatperformance]

Here ya go Malcom,Josh is on it gonna have one here with your name on it ...Tom
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Rob%20Terry/DSC05217-1.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Rob%20Terry/DSC05269.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/miller%20project%202/DSC06881.jpg

[malcolm]

Looks good Tommy! :)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Here ya go Malcom,Josh is on it gonna have one here with your name on it ...Tom
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Rob%20Terry/DSC05217-1.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Rob%20Terry/DSC05269.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/miller%20project%202/DSC06881.jpg
look at tom with the sexy setups;)

[jetboatperformance]

Whats goin on Michael ? Thats my son that makes that cool stuff ,I just play on the net all day lol Tom
Malcom ya did good on your plate ,get that big boat scootin a$$ ,now light a fire under jrork !
re those "e" pumps we got somethin in the works there too
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Panther%20Prototype/ResizeofDSC07102.jpg

[TJS]

Don't want to highjack here but I just finished machining my cradle mount. I made it so the holes let the ride plate ride at 0 degrees. Then I slotted the holes to allow adjustment from 2 to 5 degrees (I used a digital angle meter). I am still rigging the boat and close to being ready. Here is a pic of my plate set up (still has dykem on it) and rigging work. Oh it is a 77 Nordic bubble.
T.J.
http://www.tjsperformance.com/images/nordic46.jpg
http://www.tjsperformance.com/images/nordic76.jpg

[riverbound]

Whats goin on Michael ? Thats my son that makes that cool stuff ,I just play on the net all day lol Tom
Malcom ya did good on your plate ,get that big boat scootin a$$ ,now light a fire under jrork !
re those "e" pumps we got somethin in the works there too
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Panther%20Prototype/ResizeofDSC07102.jpg
Keep me updated i have one of those E pumps.;)

[HM]

Would there be any benefit to putting a plate like that on a 21 Spectra?
I don't know how mine rides yet, but I am betting a lot better than my old Campbell.

[jrork]

Where's the luv Tommy? :)

[malcolm]

How do U decide how long and wide the ride plate should be?
And... are the bent-up edges on the ride plate for strength or is there another reason for them?
The size on mine was only determined by the piece of aluminum I had. It had taller sides on it that I cut down to there with a skillsaw. I figured it was for strength. :D

[1968Droptop]

Scarab Jet, yes the sides bent up are for strength. You'd be surprised how much these plates will flex.
TJS, is that a shoe blank ? That's what JetBoy03 used for his support. It looks pretty damn good I must say !!! And yes the
Tom (JBP), Rork would be done by now if he didn't spend so much time in front of the comp :D
Malcolm, Now if you could only beat Konabud in a race :sqeyes: :D :D
Just stirring the pot :D

[jetboatperformance]

"Tom (JBP), Rork would be done by now if he didn't spend so much time in front of the comp"
Droptop, Johnny would be done by now if I didn't keep Emailing him asking "if he was done" (kind of like "are we there yet") lol It would also help you Washington boys if you could ever get a break from fog, low clouds, rain, sleet.... i already told him he could camp at my place for the winter
Riverbound we'll know more after we test the proto I'll keep you posted ..Tom

[1968Droptop]

"Tom (JBP), Rork would be done by now if he didn't spend so much time in front of the comp"
Droptop, Johnny would be done by now if I didn't keep Emailing him asking "if he was done" (kind of like "are we there yet") lol It would also help you Washington boys if you could ever get a break from fog, low clouds, rain, sleet....
LOL ! You must know our weather well Tom. One day it was 80*(that's hot summer temp for us :)), the next day it was 54* and raining. Today is the first dry start to a day in 2.5 weeks !!!
Keep bugging him ! Maybe he'll continue to work on his own stuff for a change :D. That thing was a great running/looking boat before he took it apart. I can't wait to see it done, it'll be too nice to use !

[bp]

Don't want to highjack here but I just finished machining my cradle mount. I made it so the holes let the ride plate ride at 0 degrees. Then I slotted the holes to allow adjustment from 2 to 5 degrees (I used a digital angle meter). I am still rigging the boat and close to being ready. Here is a pic of my plate set up (still has dykem on it) and rigging work. Oh it is a 77 Nordic bubble.
T.J.
http://www.tjsperformance.com/images/nordic46.jpg
just a question... with this type of mount, which looks the same as the other one, how would you accomodate experimenting with wedges, which would move the nozzle housing flange back and forth? i need to do something similar, but was thinking more about a flat spacer with tabs, between the bowl/nozzle housing, then attach a plate to the tabs. thoughts?

[jrork]

I can't wait to see it done, !
You're assuming that I'll ever finish it Droppy.......

[TJS]

just a question... with this type of mount, which looks the same as the other one, how would you accomodate experimenting with wedges, which would move the nozzle housing flange back and forth? i need to do something similar, but was thinking more about a flat spacer with tabs, between the bowl/nozzle housing, then attach a plate to the tabs. thoughts?
I would just slot the bottom plate so I can compensate for the wedge I guess, I have not got that far yet.
T.J.

[bp]

I would just slot the bottom plate so I can compensate for the wedge I guess, I have not got that far yet.
T.J.
yeah, i think that could work too, i just have to eyeball it some more. i already have a 3 degree down wedge in it, but the tank still porpoises at 30-32 with the pd all down.
i don't think i'll go with the up down slots though, as it's expecting a lot just from clamping force. i'll make mine shorter and just make some shims.
doing it this way will certainly be a lot less work than a spacer... :)

[bp]

don't know if anybody is still here, or thinking about this thread, but over the winter i've been able to spend a little time on the 23' hallett. after i got the old tank late last year, found it had a noticable porpoise at low speed, among a whole bunch of other stuff... after this thread, and talking to some other folks, it seemed obvious that i needed to add a plate of some type. here's what i did...
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc266/havabp/Pump003.jpg
i made the plate out of 1/4" aluminum from the metal yard junk pile, then took an old piece of angle that i had to make the spacer that mounts on the bowl. obtw, last year's pump was completely blueprinted during the winter - probably the most valuable thing on this boat now. spent a ton of time getting the studs the right length for all the wedge i'm going to try. last year, it had 4 degrees down and still porpoised with the diverter all the way down. going to try 6 degrees and see what happens.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc266/havabp/Pump005.jpg
the front of the plate is machine screwed up into a block that's bolted to the transom adapter (block of aluminum scrounged from metal yard scrap pile). the screws bolting the block to the t/a are as short as i could use, get the lock nuts real tight and still clear the bottom of the intake. the block will never come off the t/a - i made it this way to be stout, yet have ease of installation and removal in case i want to change wedges.
here's a before pic of the pump installed in the boat...
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc266/havabp/Picture014-1.jpg
and here's the after pic...
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc266/havabp/PumpMay2008002.jpg
couple things slowed this a little - other boat takes absolute precedence over this one, and there was some work to do to it during the off season. secondly, there was a bunch of other cobblejunk that had to be corrected on this thing, third, the floor had to be replaced all the way to the front bulkhead, which is now done. i'm gonna run it with old ratty interior, but i've already got the upholsterer thinking about the new one. kind of antsy to see how this works with the plate and better-than-new pump, but still have a couple of registration things to take care of - hopefully on the water next week.

[bp]

bump...

[Cas]

Bob,
I did something very similar to mine a couple of years ago and found it really helped. Ironman down in the Fresno area machined me up a block of aluminum that I bolted to the bottom of the transom adapter just as you did. I did the final fitting so the front corners of the ride plate were even with the bottom of the boat in their respective locations.
As you can see in this pic, I just went with what seems to be the most common cradle-
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/84%20Bahner/DSC01009.jpg
and set the plate at approx 2º up. After a little tweeking here and there, this is how I got the boat to ride when getting on it a bit. I don't think it's too awfully bad with an open bow and 2 people in the boat.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/84%20Bahner/airedout.jpg
I also must say that it really helped the little boat in the choppy stuff also.
I really like the cradle you made, looks great!
btw, I think you need a new pair of shoes :D

[bp]

your ride looks good, and those shoes are just broke in good.
i bumped this thread so elim could see it, as he has some porpoising issues.
i didn't use a normal cradle because, for one thing, i didn't have one, and the second thing was that this "trim" plate is much longer and extends much further back than a normal "ride" plate. i found all the aluminum i needed in the local metal yard's junk pile. i didn't really have anything to compare to for the t/a mounting block, but i wanted to design it so that i could remove the plate without having to remove the t/a. the block is securely bolted to the t/a, and the plate just screws into the block.
some guys fabbed cradles to bolt to the outside droop or nozzle extension flange. but i still need to play with wedges some more. with the cradle bolted to the outside, changing wedges would require changing something on the cradle.
hopefully, we get to test this thing next week. not just the plate setup, but the pump is entirely different now, (plus a brand new floor in the boat), so it'll be interesting.

[Elimin8Jet71]

I am picking up some great ideas here... thanks for bumping it up for me...
Just curious though... I was wondering if someone can explain to me what the difference between a ride plate and cav plates.... are they doing the same job??

[Cas]

Elim,
Here's a couple of pics that I snapped today with what I did. I mounted the block to the T/A by bolting it from inside the TA down into the block and then through the lip of the TA into the block.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/84%20Bahner/DSC04824.jpg
As you can hopefully see in this picture, I had the block of aluminum angled on the bottom so the ride plate would be up about 1º. I then took more material off so I would be able to adjust it further as necessary.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/84%20Bahner/DSC04822.jpg
This picture is of the cradle and approximately 1/2" spacers between the cradle and ride plate.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/84%20Bahner/DSC04823.jpg
I tried different length spacers and found the length pictured to be the best for my boat.

[bp]

a ride plate screws up to the back of the shoe, providing a continuous flat surface from the biting edge (rear of the intake opening) to the end of the plate. ride plates are generally about 18" or so long, so that's a continuous flat riding surface of about 22", or so. ride plates and these trim plates so some of the same things at lower speeds, such as stabilize the ride. but, having that long flat surface from the shoe back helps control the low pressure area behind the opening on higher speed boats. without a shoe/rideplate combination, speeds above 80 are difficult.

[bp]

i have one spacer under my cradle, and plenty of material to make more. right now, the thing is angled 2 degrees up from the keel, and we'll go from there.
i machined a bit of angle into the slot the plate sits in on the block. i made mine a little wider than yours, and just machined some grooves so i could get the bottom t/a screws in.
btw, i had it all pc'd, and that cost a helluva lot more than building the whole thing, even with the hardware.

[Elimin8Jet71]

Alright... I get it now... thanks again guys. This really has been a big help in helping me pick the next course of action for my project.:D

[bp]

finally got it out for a couple hours this morning.
i had changed a lot of things putting it all back together, plus the pump had been blueprinted by mpd. the impeller usta be an amt aluminum a, now is an amt ss a+. i had rewired a lot of things around the transom, plus i had changed the plumbing configuration.. previously, the pump discharged to the lower front of the logs, out the top front to the engine, from the engine to the snails. i installed a valve, ran from pump to engine, out engine to top front of logs, out lower rear of logs, to snails.
the reason for replumbing was that, on havasu, you don't need to pre-warm the water for the engine. i want engine outlet water to be around 125-130. once i got that dialed, oil temp stayed around 180, and maxed out just under 200 on a longer run. last august, with water temps up, oil temp would get up to 240, and i'd rather keep things a bit cooler.
keep in mind, this is a BIG boat for a jet at 23'. previously, i had to hold 3400-3500 to maintain 31-32 mph. now, i can maintain 32mph at 3100. the plate helped dampen the low speed porpoise; it is still there, so i want to try a couple of small changes to see if it will dampen it further, but it's much better than it was before.
previous high was 47mph at 4300 rpm. the engine won't go over 4100 now, which i kind of expected (it is a bone stock, junkyard 454 with nothing done to it). but, holding it down and trimming the diverter a little bit, the thing got to 45-46 quickly, and then climbed to 55-56 in a few seconds. the interesting thing was that, in the mid 50's, the ride was just solid; boat didn't move at all, and the chop that was out there from wind and several other boats didn't bother it at all, it just rode over it with barely a bump.
in hindsight, i'm thinking that this boat is just too big and heavy for the plate to have a significant effect at very low speed, although it does have -some- effect. but at higher speeds, 35-55, it helped a lot.
for now, i'm happy with it to get me through the summer. next winter there's more to do...

[dm2bfree]

Anyone make a customer ride plate boat with a Berk JC pump? If so, any pics? I'd like to see about add one to my boat, my 18' beats the crap out of me when it gets a little rough..

[dm2bfree]

So after reading all this, I'm going to work on adapting a custom ride plate for my Berkeley JC.. I have a couple (of hopefully not too dumb) questions though.. :)
I will probably be mounting it to the transom adapter like 'cas' pictured in this thread, does anyone think the transom adapter is too week to be mounted too? I'm kind of scared of screwing it up if it's not strong enough to be bolted too..
Anyone know where to get a chunk of it, think I'm going to go with 1/4" alum, anyone think it should be thicker? I'm in the SoCal area..
How do you measure the angle of the ride plate and anyone know a good starting point for the degree up or down?
Thanks in advance!

[bp]

So after reading all this, I'm going to work on adapting a custom ride plate for my Berkeley JC.. I have a couple (of hopefully not too dumb) questions though.. :)
I will probably be mounting it to the transom adapter like 'cas' pictured in this thread, does anyone think the transom adapter is too week to be mounted too? I'm kind of scared of screwing it up if it's not strong enough to be bolted too..
Anyone know where to get a chunk of it, think I'm going to go with 1/4" alum, anyone think it should be thicker? I'm in the SoCal area..
How do you measure the angle of the ride plate and anyone know a good starting point for the degree up or down?
Thanks in advance!
bolting it to the t/a should be fine.
1/4" or 5/16" will work fine, but if you can find some 1" angle, brace the thing or it will bow.
compare plate ange to keel angle next to the intake. it's good to start somewhere between 0 and 2 degrees up.
don't know where the metal yards are in socal. every one i've been to has a "leftover" pile. just scour those areas for what you want - if you have them slice you any new pieces, it'll get real pricy real quick...