Who knows the answer to this

[OverKill]

What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile?? I see all this V-Drive stuff, so I wondered what the answer to this is. Thanks
OverKill

[@theRVR]

What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile?? I see all this V-Drive stuff, so I wondered what the answer to this is. Thanks
OverKill
The last I looked it was Bill Henderson that owned the record with a Blown Fuel Jet called RATED X.

[cyclone]

I think the fastest jet today is driven by Dan Kirkman and its a TPR Stealth. think it runs like 165 mph or somethign like that.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

I think the fastest jet today is driven by Dan Kirkman and its a TPR Stealth. think it runs like 165 mph or somethign like that.
He's got bigger balls than me!!!!!!! Pat

[Rexone]

Didn't Tim Place go in the low 170's?

[ahsumtoy]

October 30, 1983, Phoenix, AZ. Bill Place, "Going Places" ran 176.39 mph in a Placecraft....

[Nucking futs]

October 30, 1983, Phoenix, AZ. Bill Place in "Going Places" ran 176.39 mph in a Placecraft....
It was Bill's boat, but who was driving? Bobby Hall?

[h2oboy]

Who are some of the other top running Jets??

[ahsumtoy]

It was Bill's boat, but who was driving? Bobby Hall?
Yep, you're right! Still, fastest jet...

[Nucking futs]

Yep, you're right! Still, fastest jet...
OK, Trivia for you, Bills first southwind tunnel BFJ was named what before it was Going places?

[MAXIMUS]

OK, Trivia for you, Bills first southwind tunnel BFJ was named what before it was Going places?
"Getting ready to go places":D

[ahsumtoy]

OK, Trivia for you, Bills first southwind tunnel BFJ was named what before it was Going places?
"Northwest Paving Special"????

[old rigger]

Dave Gionetti went well over 170 as well in Rated X, but I don't think he went 176 like Going Places went. Those two boats were amazing to watch. I have a video of Billy Henderson blowing over his dads Rated X, I'll have to find it and transfer it to digi so everyone can see it. What a crash.

[ahsumtoy]

Billy Henderson's Rated X was also a Placecraft wasn't it?

[old rigger]

Billy Henderson's Rated X was also a Placecraft wasn't it?
Yes. Dad was Bill, son (driver at the end of rated X's life) was Billy. Billy shoed other boats too. :)

[Clockstart]

I'm pretty sure Ken Zeal made it into the 170's before he destroyed that PC.
Cs

[Nucking futs]

"Northwest Paving Special"????
Thats right on the money. Me and my old man were chewing the fat last weekend and that very boat came up in our conversation. I have some pictures of it somewhere.

[Rexone]

Didn't Tim Place go in the low 170's?
Answered my own question... although I was off a little on the speed.
Place Diverters' own, "Going Places II" is the world's fastest capsule jet boat at 183 MPH with a 6.69 ET
http://www.placediverter.com/Images/COVERBOAT.jpg

[OverKill]

Answered my own question... although I was off a little on the speed.
http://www.placediverter.com/Images/COVERBOAT.jpg
WOW!! look at the bottom of the boat, the whole thing is out of the water.

[UBFJ #454]

What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile??
OverKill
To us 1/4'er Milers Speed isn't what it's About (Except as a 'Tie Breaker' ... Same Identical ET, Fastest Wins) ... It's about Quickness in the 1/4 ...
Quickest to Date: Dan Kirkman ... #555 TAJ, 'Awe Some Toy' ... 6.98 Sec. Backed up by a 7.03 ... a 'Pro-Built' ALKY Motor dyno'd right @ 2,000 HP (No Nitro as some have B.S.'d ... per. comm) ... Capsuled Stealth Hull.
2nd Quickest: Shannon Stewart ...7.13 IHBA Record ... Hear that Frank E. Nagore Ran a 7.13 @ NJBA this past weekend ... ALKY Motor in a Capsuled Stealth Hull.
All Three (3) of the above are Capsuled Boats .........
Quickest Open Boat On Record is: Jerry Hicks' ... #334, UBFJ, 'Hot Tub'' ... 7.46 Sec. ... Modified CP Hull.
Quickest with the Lowest Reaction Time Wins in the 1/4 ..... Not MPH (with the exception noted above ... Personally, I think Reaction Time should Trump MPH ... Indicates a Better Driver to me, 'More On The Ball').

[djdtpr]

Hear that Frank E. Nagore Ran a 7.13 @ NJBA this past weekend ... ALKY Motor in a Capsuled Stealth Hull.
I thought i herd them say 7.14 @145 but i could be wrong either way it was an awsome pass. Tommy would be happy as hell with Frank and the whole crew. Great job guys keep up the good work your not far off 6.98 to a 7.14 could be won at the lights.

[old rigger]

To us 1/4'er Milers Speed isn't what it's About (Except as a 'Tie Breaker' ... Same Identical ET, Fastest Wins) ... It's about Quickness in the 1/4 ...
Quickest to Date: Dan Kirkman ... #555 TAJ, 'Awe Some Toy' ... 6.98 Sec. Backed up by a 7.03 ... a 'Pro-Built' ALKY Motor dyno'd right @ 2,000 HP (No Nitro as some have B.S.'d ... per. comm) ... Capsuled Stealth Hull.
2nd Quickest: Shannon Stewart ...7.13 IHBA Record ... Hear that Frank E. Nagore Ran a 7.13 @ NJBA this past weekend ... ALKY Motor in a Capsuled Stealth Hull.
All Three (3) of the above are Capsuled Boats .........
Quickest Open Boat On Record is: Jerry Hicks' ... #334, UBFJ, 'Hot Tub'' ... 7.46 Sec. ... Modified CP Hull.
Quickest with the Lowest Reaction Time Wins in the 1/4 ..... Not MPH (with the exception noted above ... Personally, I think Reaction Time should Trump MPH ... Indicates a Better Driver to me, 'More On The Ball').
So if 'Going Places II' ran a 183 with a 6.69 ET, why isn't it on your list? His time smoked anything you listed.

[ol guy]

Has enyone heard of RICH BITCH, and the 176mph pass at blue water back in the mid 80's. back then it was a race between bernie rico and Bill henderson to go the fastest. Then we can all talk about rated-x going end-over at lake ming at an estimated 180 plus, make them loose make them light and hope for the best!!! And NO CAPSULES.

[old rigger]

I didn't know Rich Bitch (Bernie Rico, for all you young uns, is the maker of BC Rich guitars) ever went that fast. But if he did it against Rated X it happened in the early 80s not the mid. Billy blew it over before the mid 80s. And I don't think he was anywhere near 180 when he crashed, could have been but I doubt it. I think it was his tennis shoe that stopped the lights at 150 and change. He never let go of the steering wheel, even when the boat came apart and was no longer a boat, he still had the wheel in his hands.
Like I said above, I got it on video somewhere, horrific crash. They also use to use the crash, not my copy, on the intro to 'Wide World of Sports' every week on TV. Billy was pissed he never got any credit or $ for that. lol :)

[UBFJ #454]

So if 'Going Places II' ran a 183 with a 6.69 ET, why isn't it on your list? His time smoked anything you listed.
ANSWER:
I'm a 'New Guy' to all this ..... Only been involved as a 'Crew Chief/Tuner' for about six (6) years now ... Though I know a lot of 'the old outlaws' ... Coming over from Asphalt, I'm more Focused on what I have to Build/Tune to rather than Records ... I, can always stand corrected on Records (memory Laps ... I think we're of similiar age)... Not Tuning For The Lap ...
Old Rigger ... I Apoligize for not knowing every detail of Jet History ... Though rememberence is not my Focus right now ... I'm sure you understand.

[Nucking futs]

Has enyone heard of RICH BITCH, and the 176mph pass at blue water back in the mid 80's. back then it was a race between bernie rico and Bill henderson to go the fastest. Then we can all talk about rated-x going end-over at lake ming at an estimated 180 plus, make them loose make them light and hope for the best!!! And NO CAPSULES.
I Remember Rich Bitch, Berrnie was a class act for sure. That was the same race we put Going places on the trailer with Jay Ellintons E.T. Special. Also the same weekend Jay got wet on the way to the line when he had a fire.
http://southwindjetboats.com/E.T.%20SPECIAL.jpg
And then Mark Connels "Big Red Special"
http://southwindjetboats.com/big%20red%20one.jpg

[alien2]

Another Placecraft called "Blown Fever" set a couple records.
The boat is for sale without motor or capsule . . .
____

[old rigger]

ANSWER:
Old Rigger ... I Apoligize for not knowing every detail of Jet History ... Though rememberence is not my Focus right now ... I'm sure you understand.
That's not what I meant, I didn't expect you to know every detail. I thought you were grabbing those numbers from an official source because you were involved in racing, so I was wondering why Going Places II wasn't mentioned. That's all :)
Back in the day when Dave Geonitti was doing our interior cabinet work for Advantage boats, mid to late 80s, he was pretty pissed off that his record runs were 'retired' by what ever body controlled those things. Not being a racer myself I don't know who that was, but the speeds and times were very fast. I guess the thinking was there'd be no interest in the class if the records were so out of reach. That's the story I was told from him...and that's been a long focking time ago so some of the details might be blurred. lol
Just like my memories of Billy Jr. Those go back to high school, he was younger than me but was a good friend of one of my friends so we knew each other, went to the same school and both grew up in the boat biz, that goes back to the early 70s... so they might be a little fuzzy too. :rolleyes:

[Cs19]

Another Placecraft called "Blown Fever" set a couple records.
The boat is for sale without motor or capsule . . .
____
How much???
Has the dash been fixed from the capsule cutout?

[Cas]

thought I'd put in my $.02. Here's a couple of pics from 2 different magazines from 1983. As you cansee, that crash was spectacular!
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04588.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04592.jpg

[Cas]

here's an easier to read version-
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04593.jpg

[bp]

[QUOTE=old rigger;2802587]That's not what I meant, I didn't expect you to know every detail. I thought you were grabbing those numbers from an official source because you were involved in racing, so I was wondering why Going Places II wasn't mentioned. That's all :)
QUOTE]
going places was one of the faster boats to run, as was smokin n strokin, and several others back in the day. but, i've said it before, so might as well say it again. back in the day (pre 91ish), the starting line approach was a lot different, which makes comparing et's almost impossible with today. also, don't know what type of data acquisition was available, or used back in the day, but that's an important tuning tool for today's race jets.
i've seen awesome toy run several laps over the past couple of years, and it is obvious in the runs that he is not "pushing the envelope". there is a lot left in that boat; it make's 7.0 passes very smoothly and easily. second, i've run at dexter for the past 3 years (where i've watched dan's runs), and for me, that track is at least 0.15 - 0.20 slower than the california tracks. if dan brought that boat to ming, i wouldn't expect to see any laps over 7, and he'd easily get deep into the 6's.
having said all that, have to hand it to all the guys that ran tfj back in the day, pushing that envelope. there were a lot of 'em, and there isn't anyone trying to run fuel motors anymore.

[Cas]

also, don't know what type of data acquisition was available, or used back in the day, but that's an important tuning tool for today's race jets.
There's a letter to the editor in the May 1984 Hot Boat from the owners of a boat called "Downright Radi-Cole". She mentioned she was working on a quick retrieval file system for their boat. They had a Compaq computer in their van where they would enter wind direction, water conditions, et, mph, air quality, timing, jetting and a few other things to help them.
It kind of sounds like it was the first track side data systems around other than the one the NDBA had.
Nothing like what's used today though.

[old rigger]

[QUOTE=old rigger;2802587]That's not what I meant, I didn't expect you to know every detail. I thought you were grabbing those numbers from an official source because you were involved in racing, so I was wondering why Going Places II wasn't mentioned. That's all :)
QUOTE]
going places was one of the faster boats to run, as was smokin n strokin, and several others back in the day. but, i've said it before, so might as well say it again. back in the day (pre 91ish), the starting line approach was a lot different, which makes comparing et's almost impossible with today. also, don't know what type of data acquisition was available, or used back in the day, but that's an important tuning tool for today's race jets.
i've seen awesome toy run several laps over the past couple of years, and it is obvious in the runs that he is not "pushing the envelope". there is a lot left in that boat; it make's 7.0 passes very smoothly and easily. second, i've run at dexter for the past 3 years (where i've watched dan's runs), and for me, that track is at least 0.15 - 0.20 slower than the california tracks. if dan brought that boat to ming, i wouldn't expect to see any laps over 7, and he'd easily get deep into the 6's.
having said all that, have to hand it to all the guys that ran tfj back in the day, pushing that envelope. there were a lot of 'em, and there isn't anyone trying to run fuel motors anymore.
I was talking about the speeds Going Places II posted, which is still faster and quicker than anything else posted on this thread and is not an old pre '91 run..
Racers are and will be always the same...'oh the starts were different', 'the clocks were fast that day', 'the old speeds are ancient history' blah blah blah. lol
It was a simple question that started the thread and the answer looks to be Going Places II.

[bp]

I was talking about the speeds Going Places II posted, which is still faster and quicker than anything else posted on this thread and is not an old pre '91 run.. .
didn't see anything posted by someone called going places II.
Racers are and will be always the same...'oh the starts were different', 'the clocks were fast that day', 'the old speeds are ancient history' blah blah blah. lol.
my bad, you're right, course setup and races are the same as they have been since the '70s.
It was a simple question that started the thread and the answer looks to be Going Places II.
whatever you say.

[Bense468]

Another Placecraft called "Blown Fever" set a couple records.
The boat is for sale without motor or capsule . . .
Hey Chris...didn't Doug drive blown fever for a while?

[Cs19]

Yes, Ralph Mills owned it and Doug Durnell drove. They got the thing setup and ran big numbers then Ralph sold it to someone and Shannon Stewart drove it next and set a record, I believe it was an ET Record that still stands.
When I was a kid we stored Blown Fever in our garage for a few months for Ralph and Doug, my parents were close friends with doug.. I used to rush home everyday after school to go sit in the capsule, it had an air mask like an F18 fighter jet has, it was cool. At the time that boat was incredibly clean, show quality. I woud love to buy it back and make a lake boat out of it. I used to go pit for them at the Castaic, puddingstone and Firebird events, I was the official wipe the boat down kid.

[BAE_557]

there isn't anyone trying to run fuel motors anymore.
There's not ?

[old rigger]

didn't see anything posted by someone called going places II.
?
Your 1st. response to included my quote about Going Places II, and rexone posted info along with a picture of GPII in this thread as well.
my bad, you're right, course setup and races are the same as they have been since the '70s.
Still have to run 1/4 mile right? I know the starts are different, but it's still only 1320 feet right, or are you guys hampered today by being made to run a much longer course?
whatever you say.
It's not whatever I say, that's the best speed and time posted here so far. Please post up someones speed faster than Going Places II 183 mph with a 6.69.
This is a great thread by the way and it takes me back. Would love to see some more of nucking futs pictures. I really enjoy everyone's stories and memories from being around these bad ass boats from not only back in the day but todays racers too. Even enjoy your posts bp...just messin' with you a little.
cs19, maybe you crossed paths with a friend of mine that worked for Mike that sold and owned so cal racing fuel at the races, he lived down the street from me. He was Billy jrs best friend and he dated or hung out with Shannons daughter back in the day. If it wasn't his daughter it was a girl that hung out in his pit. I don't remember her name though. His name is Darell.

[OverKill]

Well lets just raise the bar a little than. What is the fastest Jet Boat outside the quarter mile. In other words if you needed the whole lake what would one top out at??
OverKill

[steelcomp]

Here's a few pics I took quite a few years back at Ming. These were a few of the TFJ's running back then, but I don't remember who they were or anything about them. Just thought I'd add to the thread for some interest. You guys can argue about who these guys were, and how fast they ran. :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0155.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_01521.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0156.jpg

[steelcomp]

Well lets just raise the bar a little than. What is the fastest Jet Boat outside the quarter mile. In other words if you needed the whole lake what would one top out at??
OverKill
-MOST- jets are pretty much topped out well before the quarter.

[OverKill]

-MOST- jets are pretty much topped out well before the quarter.
Ya I kinda figured. I do see the word PLACE on the last picture you posted. Old Rigger, what could that mean?

[steelcomp]

Ya I kinda figured. I do see the word PLACE on the last picture you posted. Old Rigger, what could that mean?Old will probably have a lot to add here, but I'm pretty sure that all three of the boats in those pics are Place Crafts...even the one with the stepped transom.

[Cs19]

[QUOTE=steelcomp;2803902]You guys can argue about who these guys were, and how fast they ran. :D[quote]
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0155.jpg
Donnie Lebon, Hydrophobia.

[OverKill]

[QUOTE=steelcomp;2803902]You guys can argue about who these guys were, and how fast they ran. :D[quote]
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0155.jpg
Donnie Lebon, Hydrophobia.
what year was that

[steelcomp]

[QUOTE=steelcomp;2803902]You guys can argue about who these guys were, and how fast they ran. :D[quote]
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0155.jpg
Donnie Lebon, Hydrophobia.Thanks CS...any relation to Dennis Lebon? He was racing a PC a few years ago.

[JR131]

sorry guys the fastest and quickest open boat was jr in thunderstruck
148 at a 7.09 the fastest open jet ever recorded at bakersfield
jr

[old rigger]

sorry guys the fastest and quickest open boat was jr in thunderstruck 148 at a 7.09 the fastest open jet ever recorded at bakersfield jr
How do you figure? Gionette, as we can all see from the old paper above, ran 156.25, 158.17 and a 156.52 in Rated X at Parker in '83.
Hell it even says Billy Jr ran a 149.75 in Going Places. All open jets, and all faster than 148, most of them by a BUNCH.
Shoot I was talking to Roger Weiman a while back and he was telling me even one of his old Dragstars clicked off a 142 or 43 back in the day.

[JR131]

the key word here is bakersfield they were also running 8.18 and 7.82 back when they had the long start

[old rigger]

the key word here is bakersfield they were also running 8.18 and 7.82 back when they had the long start
And the key question here asked by Overkill is ...'What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile?? '. Has nothing to do with Bako, nothing to do with running starts and nothing to do with open or closed hulls. It's really a very simple question and it still looks to be Going Places II.

[Cs19]

Thanks CS...any relation to Dennis Lebon? He was racing a PC a few years ago.
I really dont now, I will ask a family friend next time I see him. Im going to assume the answer is yes.

[Cs19]

Quickest Open Boat On Record is: Jerry Hicks' ... #334, UBFJ, 'Hot Tub'' ... 7.46 Sec. ... Modified CP Hull
I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand but this isnt correct, Hot Tub has been 7.33/139.

[Cs19]

If anyone has more pics of some of the BFJ's from back in the day please post them.
Thanks.

[Devilman]

If anyone has more pics of some of the BFJ's from back in the day please post them.
Thanks.
I posted these awhile back.....
Messin around on the 'net & ran across these. Figured somebody here may get a kick out of them.... :cool: :rollside:
An Apollo SDBA Safety Boat... Town Lake, Austin, Tx~1975
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812Apollo_Safety_Boat.jpg
The Haas & Connell #888 Boat... Town Lake, Austin, Tx~1975
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812888_Boat.jpg
"The Strangler" Blown Fuel Jet Boat... Town Lake, Austin, Tx~1975
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812Strangler.jpg
Youngblood TX19 #320... Town Lake, Austin, Tx~1975
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812JBE_320_1.jpg
Jim Youngblood, standing in TX19 #320... purple nitro haze, before the storm
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812JBE_320_2.jpg
Mike Straughan Automotive... Town Lake, Austin, Tx~1975
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812Mike_Straughan.jpg
Mike Straughan Automotive... Town Lake, Austin, Tx~1975.... too much nitro!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812Mike_Straughan_2.jpg

[old rigger]

Holy Moly! Big fockin balls to drive a blown, v-bottom jet!
Cool pictures Devilman...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812Strangler.jpg

[Devilman]

Holy Moly! Big fockin balls to drive a blown, v-bottom jet!
Cool pictures Devilman...
Thank you, Oldrigger, they're not mine though. I ran across them awhile back while messing around on the 'net. They were on a site called classxboats.com & thought they were too cool not to share here.
Nucking Futs posted this in the original thread, which I thought was pretty cool as well.
That is my grandfather in the pimpin blue hat with the walking stick. That was one of the first southwind dragsters made in the killeen plant that Mark connell ran. Awesome picture, thank you.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2812888_Boat.jpg

[bp]

There's a letter to the editor in the May 1984 Hot Boat from the owners of a boat called "Downright Radi-Cole". She mentioned she was working on a quick retrieval file system for their boat. They had a Compaq computer in their van where they would enter wind direction, water conditions, et, mph, air quality, timing, jetting and a few other things to help them.
It kind of sounds like it was the first track side data systems around other than the one the NDBA had.
Nothing like what's used today though.
i was thinking more of p/e transducers, and realtime data collection of pump/keel pressures. i know people were using computers early on to compile notes for ease of retrieval.

[bp]

There's not ?
not on a track, no they're not. don't be offended, it's been your choice.

[bp]

?
Your 1st. response to included my quote about Going Places II, and rexone posted info along with a picture of GPII in this thread as well. .
what you posted was: "I was talking about the speeds Going Places II posted" i did not see a post by going places II, and still haven't. if it's in microfont, i can't see it.
? Still have to run 1/4 mile right? I know the starts are different, but it's still only 1320 feet right, or are you guys hampered today by being made to run a much longer course?
yes, it is still 1/4 mile, always has been. no one is hampered by anything; in fact, starting procedures are more consistent accross the board then they were, with the rope only 100-125' from the starting beam.
before the changes, boats started from 200-250' behind the starting beam. if you do not understand this can make a significant difference in et, there's not much more to say. from a top speed perspective, little difference if any, but et? there's no real way to compare the two.
It's not whatever I say, that's the best speed and time posted here so far. Please post up someones speed faster than Going Places II 183 mph with a 6.69..
i did not see where this is posted in this thread. if it's a record, it would also be nice to know where that speed/et is recorded as a recognized record. was it one pass that could not be backed up?
there were myriad boats that ran fuel way back, and ran fast/quick. but shannon's speed record is the only one i know of that is recognized as a record by any sanctioning body. randy fowlkes has the quickest et, recognized by sdba.
records are made to be broken, and it sucks that some of these records were "retired", or just not maintained by the sanctioning bodies. a fact is that dan kirkman has gone quicker than either stewart or fowlkes record, on alky, and that boat is still in one piece and racing.
This is a great thread by the way and it takes me back. .
the pictures are nice, but the whodidwhatwhen seems to get better with age.
Even enjoy your posts bp...just messin' with you a little.
glad to be of service:) i need to go work on the boat...

[old rigger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bp
there isn't anyone trying to run fuel motors anymore.
(BAE 577)
There's not ?
__________________
not on a track, no they're not. don't be offended, it's been your choice.
Someone is. Willis posted this on another thread and under BFJ there's a record set this summer.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-10/61269/NJBARecordPg9-07.gif

[old rigger]

what you posted was: "I was talking about the speeds Going Places II posted" i did not see a post by going places II, and still haven't. if it's in microfont, i can't see it. ...
Yes, I WAS talking about the speed Going Places II posted... in a race, not a member 'going places II' (if there is such a thing) posted. Don't be an idiot. I showed you where Rexone posted it's, Going Places II, speed and time. Still the fastest, still a modern run with a enclosed boat and still you keep talking about 'old' records that have fallen. Why? It's claimed as the fastest speed and et ever ran by a jet on Frank Places site. I have no idea when and where, but if he posted it, Frank being one of the most stand up guys on the planet, then I believe him.

[ahsumtoy]

I just got off the phone with Scott Hamilton at Placecraft, he said that Going Places ran 181mph at half track, 6.78et, at Puddingstone in 1993. He said almost all of the fuel Placecrafts ran over 170mph. If you guys still don't believe this, then call Frank, Bill, or Tim Place or Ron or Scott Hamilton. Just because the old records were retired doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[bp]

I just got off the phone with Scott Hamilton at Placecraft, he said that Going Places ran 181mph at half track, 6.78et, at Puddingstone in 1993. He said almost all of the fuel Placecrafts ran over 170mph. If you guys still don't believe this, then call Frank, Bill, or Tim Place or Ron or Scott Hamilton. Just because the old records were retired doesn't mean it didn't happen.
i have no doubt that placecrafts ran that fast, and most likely could run faster today then they did then. but nobody's running fuel. frank nagore runs alky, and in so doing, is within the rules for the BFJ class.
when records are retired, as opposed to bettered, it does have the same effect as though it never happened because the record evaporates. then, what does that say about current records? how does anyone know what's real? shannon set the current record in a placecraft, so the hull is the same, but the record is 163?? or is it??? did jetboatguru and jeff martin put on a show 5 years ago, or was that just a figment of my imagination?
just for the helluvit, i pulled a copy of ***boat off the shelf (10/92) which has an american turbine add on page 63. this add has a pic of smokin n strokin, and clearly states "worlds fastest jet, 158.41; worlds quickest jet, 6.63, recorded at the world finals 11/10/1990" (it also says "most efficient jet", 7200 rpm @158, but i digress). from what's been posted in this thread, that et has never been "bettered" (also another placecraft), so again, what's real if records set at a sanctioned event aren't retained?
i can respect the hell out of the past, i just can't live in it, and records should reflect where past drivers set the bar. from what i can see, there are only 3 guys trying to push it right now; kirkman, nagore, and junior, and at the moment, kirkman is leading. 161 may not be 183, but alky isn't nitro. the interesting aside is that none of these three boats are placecrafts.

[BAE_557]

not on a track, no they're not. don't be offended, it's been your choice.
BP,
No worries here, not offended.
I know that I am running my own agenda but just wondered if there was
anybody else in an open jet boat trying to exceed 165 MPH in a 1/4 mile or less.
As it stands now, I don't believe that I could run at the track anyway.
-William

[old rigger]

...161 may not be 183, but alky isn't nitro. the interesting aside is that none of these three boats are placecrafts.
Maybe they should switch to Placecrafts. ;)
I was wondering, if one were a deep pockets kinda guy and built an alky engine today with all the advances over the last 25 years in engine technology incorporated into it, how much HP would that engine make? I would think it would make much more than the old cast iron mopars that Henderson ran in the early 80's, or would that fuel engine built with dated 70s/80's technology still put out more power? Bill used to search the junk yards for heads, lap the valves and replace the springs and go racing. If the lasted the weekend, he was happy.

[Gearhead]

One other quick and fast BFJ that comes to mind that has not mentioned, is the Snap, Crackle and Pop boat driven by Mo Churchman that ran out of the Place Brothers camp. Mike Kuhl was tuning their engines in the mid '80's and they were running some kind of an early popoff on the handhole cover back then.
At one SDBA race at Waco... I think in '84.... the track ran West to East back then and Churchman went through the traps at about 155 and the throttle stuck open! Did he pull the fuel shutoff or kill.... no... he did not want to get dumped and did not want to lean out the engine. Well, after it went around the corner and out of site the boat eventually ran out of fuel and you could hear the cylinders dropping from nearly a mile away. The rescue boat finally found Churchman by the bridge near downtown Waco. They were not amused at the feat.
Gear

[bp]

Maybe they should switch to Placecrafts. ;) .
actually, dan kirkman owned going placesII, and crashed it, so he's not likely to ever get in a placecraft again.
I was wondering, if one were a deep pockets kinda guy and built an alky engine today with all the advances over the last 25 years in engine technology incorporated into it, how much HP would that engine make? I would think it would make much more than the old cast iron mopars that Henderson ran in the early 80's, or would that fuel engine built with dated 70s/80's technology still put out more power? Bill used to search the junk yards for heads, lap the valves and replace the springs and go racing. If the lasted the weekend, he was happy.
i don't think there's any question that today's engines would generate more hp, and do it much more reliably. look at prostock, 7 years ago, 1250hp was top of the line. now, if the top dogs aren't over 1400, they're at home watching. same 500 inches 2 carbs, advancements in technology. psi blowers? kobelcos? there are some differences. and, you'd make more power, but then you have to that power into the water at top speed, and what is top speed?
look at the speeds/et's eddie hill was running way back.. everybody could make power, most likely more power since then, but it wasn't until '03 or '04 that hydro's could consistently make use of it. since then, several 250 runs, lots of 240 runs, and one 263 run.
kirkman's engine is not new, state of the art stuff. it is well cared for. i've told him before, his runs are smooth, almost looking effortless. very reliable, punching out 7.o run after run. reminds me of 27' deckboats i see out on the lake all the time, just humming along.
but nothing makes power like nitro does, no matter what junkyard the motor came from....
mo churchman ran a daytona.. bill rathke found it in a field, spent 2 years refurbishing the thing, painted it a wild green color, then couldn't get it to run with the same engine he ran 8.50s with in his mach1. tried for a couple months, sold it and stuffed his engine in a hydro. very heavy boat.

[Nucking futs]

One other quick and fast BFJ that comes to mind that has not mentioned, is the Snap, Crackle and Pop boat driven by Mo Churchman that ran out of the Place Brothers camp. Mike Kuhl was tuning their engines in the mid '80's and they were running some kind of an early popoff on the handhole cover back then.
At one SDBA race at Waco... I think in '84.... the track ran West to East back then and Churchman went through the traps at about 155 and the throttle stuck open! Did he pull the fuel shutoff or kill.... no... he did not want to get dumped and did not want to lean out the engine. Well, after it went around the corner and out of site the boat eventually ran out of fuel and you could hear the cylinders dropping from nearly a mile away. The rescue boat finally found Churchman by the bridge near downtown Waco. They were not amused at the feat.
Gear
"Aint no mo" Another class act.
He only drove a fueler for a short time.
I have a grip of slides of all these old fuelers. I should see about getting them put onto a disc and post em up.

[squirt]

Not 100% sure but I think this is the PC I now own. If anyone has any info on it please post up. Sure would love to find out
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0156.jpg

[CDBA DAN]

Boy oh Boy..... What a topic..... If a picture is worth a thousand words then view the piece of the deck in the picture. What boat do you think it came off of. "NO jet boat" has ever ran a 180.... many have boasted 170's and I believe have done it but never ran even two of them at any event to back it up. The record I consider the record is in the picture. Two runs that quick at the same event sets a new record in my book. Not Shannon's run to set a retired record. Junior,s record was probably the fastest open run on alcohol in an open jetboat (backed up) and is the fastest open jet boat record I know of.

[Sleeper CP]

but nothing makes power like nitro does, no matter what junkyard the motor came from....
.
I don't think a modern alky engine could do it. BP's quote says it all.
Nitro by volume is more than 50% oxygen. The more you stuff in the engine the more power it will make. Kind of hard to beat.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[steelcomp]

actually, dan kirkman owned going placesII, and crashed it, so he's not likely to ever get in a placecraft again.
i don't think there's any question that today's engines would generate more hp, and do it much more reliably. look at prostock, 7 years ago, 1250hp was top of the line. now, if the top dogs aren't over 1400, they're at home watching. same 500 inches 2 carbs, advancements in technology. psi blowers? kobelcos? there are some differences. and, you'd make more power, but then you have to that power into the water at top speed, and what is top speed?
look at the speeds/et's eddie hill was running way back.. everybody could make power, most likely more power since then, but it wasn't until '03 or '04 that hydro's could consistently make use of it. since then, several 250 runs, lots of 240 runs, and one 263 run.
kirkman's engine is not new, state of the art stuff. it is well cared for. i've told him before, his runs are smooth, almost looking effortless. very reliable, punching out 7.o run after run. reminds me of 27' deckboats i see out on the lake all the time, just humming along.
but nothing makes power like nitro does, no matter what junkyard the motor came from....
mo churchman ran a daytona.. bill rathke found it in a field, spent 2 years refurbishing the thing, painted it a wild green color, then couldn't get it to run with the same engine he ran 8.50s with in his mach1. tried for a couple months, sold it and stuffed his engine in a hydro. very heavy boat.I know it's a little off subject, but do you think today's TF Hydro's are making and using the same kind of power that today's TF Drasgsters are using? :idea:

[steelcomp]

bp:look at prostock, 7 years ago, 1250hp was top of the line. You're off by about ten years. We were making that in 1990, and then some.

[old rigger]

Boy oh Boy..... What a topic..... If a picture is worth a thousand words then view the piece of the deck in the picture. What boat do you think it came off of. "NO jet boat" has ever ran a 180.... many have boasted 170's and I believe have done it but never ran even two of them at any event to back it up. The record I consider the record is in the picture. Two runs that quick at the same event sets a new record in my book. Not Shannon's run to set a retired record. Junior,s record was probably the fastest open run on alcohol in an open jetboat (backed up) and is the fastest open jet boat record I know of.
So you're saying Frank Place is lying when he says Going Places II ran a 183?

[Bense468]

mo churchman ran a daytona.. bill rathke found it in a field, spent 2 years refurbishing the thing, painted it a wild green color, then couldn't get it to run with the same engine he ran 8.50s with in his mach1. tried for a couple months, sold it and stuffed his engine in a hydro. very heavy boat.
This boat runs off of 6th ave now down in blythe. Blown gas deal. We keep waiting for him to show up to the sandbar. Mostly runs early mornings.

[CDBA DAN]

You are looking at a piece of Going Places II. And Frank did the writing on it.

[steelcomp]

You are looking at a piece of Going Places II. And Frank did the writing on it.
That didn't answer the question.

[Rexone]

Here's the link to the Place page. (http://www.placediverter.com/index.php?page=about)
Tim has told me he's still the fastest. That's all I know.... :)

[djdtpr]

actually, dan kirkman owned going placesII, and crashed it, so he's not likely to ever get in a placecraft again.
AHMAN as stated at Tommys funeral!
The original question was what was the fastest jet boat in the 1\4 mile it wasnt stated as todate or the past. Back then they were the badest thing there was point blank. But if you look at what the placecrafts were running back in the day to now it is amazing but,they had a run at the lights and if you dont think that makes a difference than you have never been there or have no idea what you are talking about. You give Dan a run at the lights and see what he runs or give Frank a run at the lights and see the difference. Also what were fuel boats making for power back then Maybe 1500 to 2000 hp now days you got top Alky motors making 3500 plus i think theres a big difference and as time goes on so does technoligy and they will create more power and just get quicker and faster. Just my .02 cents but those guys were who put us in the direction we are going now so apreciate them and look to the future.

[ahsumtoy]

I understand, and agree, that getting a run at the start has to improve ET. But as for speed, a run at the light really doesn't make a difference as the jets are running top speed at half track. In fact, according to Ron and Scott at Placecraft, Going Places had higher MPH at half track than at the finish line. I also agree with DJD that engine technology has greatly advanced and the alcohol engines probably do make more power today than the fuel engines did in the 80's. But if the question was "what is the fastest jet boat" all that stuff doesn't matter does it? I guess you could argue the difference between "is and was" the fastest...

[old rigger]

djd,
I was thinking that the new alky engine might make more power than the old, late 70's early 80's fuel engines, thanks for posting some numbers that a dumb ass like me can relate to.
cbda dan, no you still didn't answert the question. I can see the numbers on what's left of you hull and I can see the numbers posted on Franks site. What's the deal?
ahsumtoy, good points and I agree except I don't think you can argue 'is and was', well you could, but that's for another thread. So far the best numbers posted for a run, ever, are still Going Places II 183. :)

[Jetboatguru]

What people havent addressed correctly here is how the "run at the lights" has affected the et's.
If anything, it slowed the ets back in the day. Back then you had to stage and there was a starter controlling the lights and at times would slow one boat down if it was charging the lights. By the time the boats got the green lights they could have been right up on the start line. But the clock started back then when the starter gave the green no matter where the boats were. That is why the ets were so far different from today.
Then they changed the start system with beams and you had the 200 foot start. You still had to stage and had a certain amount of time and distance to do so before the clock. So you didnt just have this huge run up at the clock unless you were a lagging boat. Hazardous Waste an 8 second Super Eliminator back then was very good at getting staged then dumping the gas to fall behind and then slingshot by his competition. Everyone knew he would do it but did not do anything to prevent it.
Today you dont have a staging area and you just hammer it from the line. In my opinion, this is the quickest et system the sport has seen. If the Going Places II boat were to run 183mph at the 1/8th it would be running in the low 6's today maybe even the 5's. ( Very very stout if those numbers were real)

[pce680]

You are looking at a piece of Going Places II. And Frank did the writing on it.
These are correct numbers.The 183 mph at the 1/8 sounds like wishfull thinking or a timing lite error.

[pattymelt18]

These are correct numbers.The 183 mph at the 1/8 sounds like wishfull thinking or a timing lite error.
if you think theyre wrong go talk to tim he still has all of there quickest and fastest timeslips in fact we were just looking at them the other day.

[old rigger]

Man I LOVE it when all the racers get on board...
"wishful thinking, bad lights, fast lights, can't get power to the water like the old guys did, new starting system, old starting system, alky motors that don't make the power of the antique fuel motors, alky motors that make more power than the old fuel motors, bold statements (NO jet Boat has ever run 180!) with no proof, finger pointing, menstrual cycles, good old days, no good old days, I don't live in the past, he said this, he said that, I was there, I ran this, who's this member Going Places II" ?...
Jeeze man, it's like sitting a room full of attorneys. :)
And STILL, Frank and the gang have the fastest time ever by a jet boat. :)

[n8dawg]

This has been a very good read! Alot of history from back then. Cool to see people still talking about it.

[cyclone]

I understand, and agree, that getting a run at the start has to improve ET. But as for speed, a run at the light really doesn't make a difference as the jets are running top speed at half track. In fact, according to Ron and Scott at Placecraft, Going Places had higher MPH at half track than at the finish line. I also agree with DJD that engine technology has greatly advanced and the alcohol engines probably do make more power today than the fuel engines did in the 80's. But if the question was "what is the fastest jet boat" all that stuff doesn't matter does it? I guess you could argue the difference between "is and was" the fastest...
Not all jets are at top speed by half track. My tunnel keeps accelerating past the 1/4 mile mark. The fastest speed i've seen out of it has been when i've laid into the throttle longer than a 1/4. depending on the conditions i'll get more mph at the river than the race track.

[Jetboatguru]

Man I LOVE it when all the racers get on board...
"wishful thinking, bad lights, fast lights, can't get power to the water like the old guys did, new starting system, old starting system, alky motors that don't make the power of the antique fuel motors, alky motors that make more power than the old fuel motors, bold statements (NO jet Boat has ever run 180!) with no proof, finger pointing, menstrual cycles, good old days, no good old days, I don't live in the past, he said this, he said that, I was there, I ran this, who's this member Going Places II" ?...
Jeeze man, it's like sitting a room full of attorneys. :)
And STILL, Frank and the gang have the fastest time ever by a jet boat. :)
That is because one pass does not define a boat. Any one pass could flash a big number and it could have been bogus. In 2005 The Lucas Fair Warning TAH went 241mph in Phoenix on ONE PASS (It has never run within 15 mph before or since. The pass right before that Habit Forming TAF ran 171 mph. It has never run within 10 mph before or since.
If you want to do math we can start here.
2006 Our TAF numbers.
1/8th mile et 3.55
1/8th mile mph 155
1/4 mile et 6.33
1/4 mile mph 168.00
If Frank Place went 183 at the 1/8th, what was his et at the 1/8th?
Lets "assume" his was quicker than 3.55 by a bunch. After all, he ran almost 30 mph faster.
We typically run 2.7 to 2.8 seconds the second half of the track. So we could call that a wash if Place was running the high 160's on the big end.
I would say that running 28mph faster at the 1/8th would equate to way more than just a couple tenths in et. So that being said, Mr Place should have run in the 5's. Did he? What was his et on the 183mph run? I am asking because I truly dont know.

[bp]

in the picture cdbadan kirkman posted of what's left of the going places II deck that he owned and crashed, it says world record holder at 163, et 6.79, and top speed at 170. but, there's no date when that occurred, and no "best" et, but that's what place had on the deck when he sold it to dan.

[bp]

That is because one pass does not define a boat. Any one pass could flash a big number and it could have been bogus. In 2005 The Lucas Fair Warning TAH went 241mph in Phoenix on ONE PASS (It has never run within 15 mph before or since. The pass right before that Habit Forming TAF ran 171 mph. It has never run within 10 mph before or since.
If you want to do math we can start here.
2006 Our TAF numbers.
1/8th mile et 3.55
1/8th mile mph 155
1/4 mile et 6.33
1/4 mile mph 168.00
If Frank Place went 183 at the 1/8th, what was his et at the 1/8th?
Lets "assume" his was quicker than 3.55 by a bunch. After all, he ran almost 30 mph faster.
We typically run 2.7 to 2.8 seconds the second half of the track. So we could call that a wash if Place was running the high 160's on the big end.
I would say that running 28mph faster at the 1/8th would equate to way more than just a couple tenths in et. So that being said, Mr Place should have run in the 5's. Did he? What was his et on the 183mph run? I am asking because I truly dont know.
well, obviously he woulda whacked your azz. if this thread can keep goin a couple more pages, they'll be takin' out speed sports.

[@theRVR]

I understand, and agree, that getting a run at the start has to improve ET. But as for speed, a run at the light really doesn't make a difference as the jets are running top speed at half track. In fact, according to Ron and Scott at Placecraft, Going Places had higher MPH at half track than at the finish line. I also agree with DJD that engine technology has greatly advanced and the alcohol engines probably do make more power today than the fuel engines did in the 80's. But if the question was "what is the fastest jet boat" all that stuff doesn't matter does it? I guess you could argue the difference between "is and was" the fastest...
The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.

[Bense468]

The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.
But at what % ratio?
You watch a nitro tuner tune today, they tune at the starting line. How was that done in a boat on the rope? It wasn't. So that boat sits and waits, and if there was a holdup it waits more. Throwing the tuneup off from when it was on the trailer. Just another idea to throw around.

[@theRVR]

But at what % ratio?
You watch a nitro tuner tune today, they tune at the starting line. How was that done in a boat on the rope? It wasn't. So that boat sits and waits, and if there was a holdup it waits more. Throwing the tuneup off from when it was on the trailer. Just another idea to throw around.
back in the 80's there was no computers it was tuned from the seat of your pants, a car will see oil downs and what you see today is them setting the idle before they stage, it's just another thing to do to have the clutch work the same for each run (reaction times).

[@theRVR]

But at what % ratio?
87% to 93%

[ahsumtoy]

I'm not sure but I think IHBA and NDBA limited the amount of nitro to 50%, at least in the jets. Maybe someone can confirm that? If I'm right, that would bring the horsepower down a lot....

[ahsumtoy]

if you think theyre wrong go talk to tim he still has all of there quickest and fastest timeslips in fact we were just looking at them the other day.
It would be great to get Tim, or someone else who actually did it to come on here and set all this BS straight.

[@theRVR]

I'm not sure but I think IHBA and NDBA limited the amount of nitro to 50%, at least in the jets. Maybe someone can confirm that? If I'm right, that would bring the horsepower down a lot....
I not sure about this but I was told they had to run 51% to be considered into the fuel class.
Today a late modle BAE motor on alcohol make's about 4000HP 4500HP with all the trick stuff.

[sdpm]

I'm not sure but I think IHBA and NDBA limited the amount of nitro to 50%, at least in the jets. Maybe someone can confirm that? If I'm right, that would bring the horsepower down a lot....
As far back as I can remember early 80's anyways, yes that was the rule. Max 50%.

[pce680]

I'm not sure but I think IHBA and NDBA limited the amount of nitro to 50%, at least in the jets. Maybe someone can confirm that? If I'm right, that would bring the horsepower down a lot....
1990 IHBA Rulebook says.
Blown Jet
4 valve engines accepted.
Maximum engine displacement is 565 CI.
no V bottom boats allowed.
A maximum of 50% nitro allowed.
Required pressure relief valve.

[@theRVR]

1990 IHBA Rulebook says.
Blown Jet
4 valve engines accepted.
Maximum engine displacement is 565 CI.
no V bottom boats allowed.
A maximum of 50% nitro allowed.
Required pressure relief valve.
did they run Chrysler?
so what do you think 4500 5000HP in a BFJ??

[old rigger]

The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.
Yikes! 6500 hp back then, I had no idea it would be so high. Lets see thats uh..roughly 10 times the about of HP of the combined total of everything I own that has a gas engine on it. Including my '41 Buick straight eight, 135 HP baby. ;)
So figuring in the 50% nitro rule, how much would the old BFJ engines have been putting out in '83? Ballpark guess.
Cool info.

[BigBlockOldsJet]

The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.
Where are you pulling these numbers from?

[@theRVR]

Yikes! 6500 hp back then, I had no idea it would be so high. Lets see thats uh..roughly 10 times the about of HP of the combined total of everything I own that has a gas engine on it. Including my '41 Buick straight eight, 135 HP baby. ;)
So figuring in the 50% nitro rule, how much would the old BFJ engines have been putting out in '83? Ballpark guess.
Cool info.
Today's fuel engines are rated @ 8000 HP w over 4000 foot lbs. torque. A fuel engine could probably make 10000 HP if they could put it to the ground, there isn’t any dyno that can measure the HP is all calculated.

[BigBlockOldsJet]

Today a late modle BAE motor on alcohol make's about 4000HP 4500HP with all the trick stuff.
Where are you pulling these numbers from?

[@theRVR]

Where are you pulling these numbers from?
Torque times RPM’s
5252 = Horsepower
1 Horsepower is the power required to move 550 pounds 1 foot in 1 second

[BigBlockOldsJet]

Torque times RPM’s
5252 = Horsepower
1 Horsepower is the power required to move 550 pounds 1 foot in 1 second
I think that equation is a given.
Tallking about......
Originally Posted by @theRVR
Today a late modle BAE motor on alcohol make's about 4000HP 4500HP with all the trick stuff.
Originally Posted by @theRVR
The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.

[@theRVR]

I think that equation is a given.
Tallking about......
Originally Posted by @theRVR
Today a late modle BAE motor on alcohol make's about 4000HP 4500HP with all the trick stuff.
Originally Posted by @theRVR
The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.
My uncle ran fuel car's from the 60's on and that was the calculation from back then. I was running fuel car's for 20 years from the early 80's, and those were the calculation from then, and the calculation from today are 8000HP, and my cousin today runs a BAE blown alcohol F/C.
Again these are calculation cause some cars are geared off the line and fuel cars today have high gear only.

[Rexone]

Man I LOVE it when all the racers get on board...
"wishful thinking, bad lights, fast lights, can't get power to the water like the old guys did, new starting system, old starting system, alky motors that don't make the power of the antique fuel motors, alky motors that make more power than the old fuel motors, bold statements (NO jet Boat has ever run 180!) with no proof, finger pointing, menstrual cycles, good old days, no good old days, I don't live in the past, he said this, he said that, I was there, I ran this, who's this member Going Places II" ?...
Jeeze man, it's like sitting a room full of attorneys. :)
And STILL, Frank and the gang have the fastest time ever by a jet boat. :)
Yeah this is better than bench racers Old R. lol. ;)
Tony I don't recall posting nor on the Place website does it mention anything about 1/8 mile. So I would only conclude that since the standard racing distance of the day was 1/4 mile that is what the reference is to as far as the mph and et. Your insight on the et then vs now is intersting as well.
One thing is for certain. The bfj's back then hauled ass and I miss watching them.
I wonder how fast a "today's technology" bff would run if one could keep it right side up? :idea: Things to ponder.

[old rigger]

Rexone, ahsumtoy posted this a few pages back...
I just got off the phone with Scott Hamilton at Placecraft, he said that Going Places ran 181mph at half track...
I think that there are those that don't read the thread, they get easily confused with a lot of words on their screen, and they just jump in and post (with some interesting info I might add). jetboatguru said he didn't see the et, it was posted by you long ago along with a link to Franks site. :)

[BigBlockOldsJet]

My uncle ran fuel car's from the 60's on and that was the calculation from back then. I was running fuel car's for 20 years from the early 80's, and those were the calculation from then, and the calculation from today are 8000HP, and my cousin today runs a BAE blown alcohol F/C.
Again these are calculation cause some cars are geared off the line and fuel cars today have high gear only.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what actual teams have you or your family been involved with?

[Jetboatguru]

Rexone, ahsumtoy posted this a few pages back...
I just got off the phone with Scott Hamilton at Placecraft, he said that Going Places ran 181mph at half track...
I think that there are those that don't read the thread, they get easily confused with a lot of words on their screen, and they just jump in and post (with some interesting info I might add). jetboatguru said he didn't see the et, it was posted by you long ago along with a link to Franks site. :)
So I see it was a 6.69. my mistake. With this information posted
181 mph @ THE 1/8TH
169MPH @ THE QUARTER
I will respectfully call BS on the 181 mph. Just my unedumacated opinion. The math doesn't add up. That, or the Goin Places II was the least efficient POS on the second half of the course ever! But at 169mph out the back door, it doesn't sound like it was. Again, just my opinion and that may be worth a little less than 2 cents. BTW Andy Dement has 3 or 4 time slips where he was Top MPH qualifier in TAF. One of the slips showed 527 mph. Another one I think he was lagging and ran 400mph.

[HIRED GUN]

Today's fuel engines are rated @ 8000 HP w over 4000 foot lbs. torque. A fuel engine could probably make 10000 HP if they could put it to the ground, there isn’t any dyno that can measure the HP is all calculated.
there is a dyno...they just aint tellin ya.

[OverKill]

So I see it was a 6.69. my mistake. With this information posted
181 mph @ THE 1/8TH
169MPH @ THE QUARTER
I will respectfully call BS on the 183 mph. Just my unedumacated opinion. The math doesn't add up. That, or the Goin Places II was the least efficient POS on the second half of the course ever! But at 169mph out the back door, it doesn't sound like it was.
So your saying his top end was lost after 1/8th track? From what your saying is maybe the operator took his foot off the throttle before 1/4 mile track?
So if 183mph is the record, why hasn't anyone stept up to go past that speed? I know if I had the chance, I wouldn't leave that number in the hands of questionable history and called out as BS
OverKill

[Oldsquirt]

..............So if 183mph is the record.............
183mph is NOT the record, and Place does not claim that it is. They may have run 183mph, but unless that number was backed up by another run at the same event within 1%, then NO RECORD was set.

[Jetboatguru]

It seems that lots of words on the screen have confused other people as well.
Here is the original question-;)
QUOTE=OverKill;2798799]What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile?? I see all this V-Drive stuff, so I wondered what the answer to this is. Thanks
OverKill[/QUOTE]
Did he say 1/4 mile or 1/8th mile?
And the key question here asked by Overkill is ...'What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile?? '. Has nothing to do with Bako, nothing to do with running starts and nothing to do with open or closed hulls. It's really a very simple question and it still looks to be Going Places II.
?
Your 1st. response to included my quote about Going Places II, and rexone posted info along with a picture of GPII in this thread as well.
It's not whatever I say, that's the best speed and time posted here so far. Please post up someones speed faster than Going Places II 183 mph with a 6.69.
QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ahsumtoy;2807529]I just got off the phone with Scott Hamilton at Placecraft, he said that Going Places ran 181mph at half track, 6.78et, at Puddingstone in 1993. He said almost all of the fuel Placecrafts ran over 170mph. If you guys still don't believe this, then call Frank, Bill, or Tim Place or Ron or Scott Hamilton. Just because the old records were retired doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I watched them run BFJ and they were BAD ASS!! Whatever the numbers were they were unreal to watch.

[OverKill]

183mph is NOT the record, and Place does not claim that it is. They may have run 183mph, but unless that number was backed up by another run at the same event within 1%, then NO RECORD was set.
Well I have been through this thread twice. So back to my first question. What is the record than??

[Jetboatguru]

Well I have been through this thread twice. So back to my first question. What is the record than??
The current record is held by Shannon Stewart
161.68
7.13 et set back in 1995.

[Rexone]

What is the fastest Jet Boat in the liquid 1/4 mile?? I see all this V-Drive stuff, so I wondered what the answer to this is. Thanks
OverKill
Well I have been through this thread twice. So back to my first question. What is the record than??
With all due respect Overkill, that wasn't exactly your first question :D
My impression was at the time I spoke with Tim about it was that is was a record. But that was years ago and I could easily be mistaken or just senile. ;)
It would be interesting to see a heads up race between one of these old school bfj's and one of today's taf's.

[Jetboatguru]

With all due respect Overkill, that wasn't exactly your first question :D
My impression was at the time I spoke with Tim about it was that is was a record. But that was years ago and I could easily be mistaken or just senile. ;)
It would be interesting to see a heads up race between one of these old school bfj's and one of today's taf's.
Rexone,
If the TFJ's run today what they ran (or claimed to have ran,) the TAF's would be in trouble

[UBFJ #454]

By the Rules of the IHBA TFJ can Run with TAF's ... Maybe some day someone with a TFJ will step in with the TAF's in the TAF/TFJ Class and make the 'Funny Car' Class of drag boat racing really 'Interesting'! ..... Prop against Jet with no BreakOut.

[OverKill]

By the Rules of the IHBA TFJ can Run with TAF's ... Maybe some day someone with a TFJ will step in with the TAF's in the TAF/TFJ Class and make the 'Funny Car' Class of drag boat racing really 'Interesting'! ..... Prop against Jet with no BreakOut.
Now I really like where this thread is going! :) :)

[old rigger]

Dement has 3 or 4 time slips where he was Top MPH qualifier in TAF. One of the slips showed 527 mph. Another one I think he was lagging and ran 400mph.
That's very funny. :)

[jetboatperformance]

....Tom
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Misc/DSC07268.jpg

[Jetboatguru]

That's very funny. :)
Trust me, Andy has those time slips in his toolbox in the trailer!:D :D

[Oldsquirt]

My impression was at the time I spoke with Tim about it was that is was a record. But that was years ago and I could easily be mistaken or just senile. ;)
Mike I was just going by what it says on their website, "Place Diverters' own, "Going Places II" is the world's fastest capsule jet boat at 183 MPH with a 6.69 ET". Doesn't mention it being a record, but may have been?
I did a little search and found this page. (http://dragboatalley.com/cgi-bin/links.cgi?/action/get/cat/1/id/57)
Scroll down to the bottom and it shows an IHBA "Performance Certificate" from Oct. 1983 certifying a record speed of 176.39 mph.
Question for all the long time racers and fans. Have they always used the 1% backup rule or is that something from the more modern era?

[old rigger]

I wish their site also included the year that 183 was run.
176.39 in 1983...holy crap that's fast. Maybe it doesn't really matter if anyone agrees with the next guy about who went the fastest, this is one cool thread, what with everyone posting up their memories and pictures. Throw in a little bench racin', some real facts here and there, some confusion, some tempers...very cool stuff for sure. :) Just sucks to think how long ago that was. At least I got to see some of it go down.

[Jetboatguru]

Mike I was just going by what it says on their website, "Place Diverters' own, "Going Places II" is the world's fastest capsule jet boat at 183 MPH with a 6.69 ET". Doesn't mention it being a record, but may have been?
I did a little search and found this page. (http://dragboatalley.com/cgi-bin/links.cgi?/action/get/cat/1/id/57)
Scroll down to the bottom and it shows an IHBA "Performance Certificate" from Oct. 1983 certifying a record speed of 176.39 mph.
Question for all the long time racers and fans. Have they always used the 1% backup rule or is that something from the more modern era?
I know its been the rule for a long time.

[Cs19]

I have to say the 183 mph in the 1/8 is hard to believe, maybe in the full 1/4 but to half track?? On the other hand Jeff B. once told me that he thought he could get Ken Zeal's Placecraft to the 200 MPH mark if he had a little more time to tweak on it, I think Ken ended up getting out of it and selling everything before Jeff could do what he wanted to do.
It would be awesome to see a modern BFJ go make some passes on 50% nitro at ming.

[OverKill]

I wish their site also included the year that 183 was run.
176.39 in 1983...holy crap that's fast. Maybe it doesn't really matter if anyone agrees with the next guy about who went the fastest, this is one cool thread, what with everyone posting up their memories and pictures. Throw in a little bench racin', some real facts here and there, some confusion, some tempers...very cool stuff for sure. :) Just sucks to think how long ago that was. At least I got to see some of it go down.
Thats pretty bad ass Old Rigger, I would like to rack your mind with all the old stuff over a 30 pack.:D

[OverKill]

What's the 1% back up rule??

[Oldsquirt]

What's the 1% back up rule??
From my earlier post(and this is the standard in all the race sanctioning bodies I know of):
....... but unless that number was backed up by another run at the same event within 1%, then NO RECORD was set.

[Badburn]

Not 100% sure but I think this is the PC I now own. If anyone has any info on it please post up. Sure would love to find out
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/100_0156.jpg
You dont own that boat, Neil Klein was killed in it and it is gone. It was owned by Ken Francis and was called Lethal Weapon. I dont recall the numbers, but they held the world record at the time he crashed.It had a Brad Anderson motor in it. A lot of the pump parts you see in the picture ended up on my CP. Thats all my pea brain can remember. If anyone is interested, I could call Ken and ask him.
This is the best thread I have seen in a while!

[squirt]

It is my understanding he owned a few of them (yellow PC's) The one I have has the same color hardware, same color strips on the sides, same holes for diverter and bucket & dumps. Since I bought the boat in northern california it just seemed to fit. If you could find out about a second yellow pc I sure would appreaciate it.

[djdtpr]

Today a late modle BAE motor on alcohol make's about 4000HP 4500HP with all the trick stuff.
Thats intersting cause i was talking to a guy that runs a top Alky funny car that Grimes was tunning last year and he was saying they are only running about 3500 hp. Either way this thread is interesting to say the least with all the different stories and ideas floating around.

[Badburn]

It is my understanding he owned a few of them (yellow PC's) The one I have has the same color hardware, same color strips on the sides, same holes for diverter and bucket & dumps. Since I bought the boat in northern california it just seemed to fit. If you could find out about a second yellow pc I sure would appreaciate it.
It's possible, My old man bought the old Yellow Streaker comp jet boat from him back in 84 or so, all their boats were yellow. I wrecked that one (DOH!) I was chasing girls when the Lethal weapon was running, and didnt make it to many races:D :D When did you buy it, I'll ask him.

[Rexone]

Rexone,
If the TFJ's run today what they ran (or claimed to have ran,) the TAF's would be in trouble
Maybe there's an old bff in someone's garage then. Not that they were any faster the the current TAF's but who knows with today's technology applied. I remember watching Al Bush, Tom Black and a contingent of others run them back in the 70's at Long Beach and Ming. Then the class kind of faded away I'm assuming because of costs and possibly safety concerns, really can't remember the actual reason it disappeared. This was back in the NDBA days.

[Nucking futs]

I have to say the 183 mph in the 1/8 is hard to believe, maybe in the full 1/4 but to half track?? On the other hand Jeff B. once told me that he thought he could get Ken Zeal's Placecraft to the 200 MPH mark if he had a little more time to tweak on it, I think Ken ended up getting out of it and selling everything before Jeff could do what he wanted to do.
It would be awesome to see a modern BFJ go make some passes on 50% nitro at ming.
Well have Porter run a hot load of nitro and run it down the track. that would be awesome to see,but we both know it won't happen. :D

[BigBlockOldsJet]

Thats intersting cause i was talking to a guy that runs a top Alky funny car that Grimes was tunning last year and he was saying they are only running about 3500 hp. Either way this thread is interesting to say the least with all the different stories and ideas floating around.
That's why I questioned him on that, a modern stout TAFC is runnning like you said, just over 3000 HP.
Today a late modle BAE motor on alcohol make's about 4000HP 4500HP with all the trick stuff.
The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.
To the best of my knowledge, the fuel cars in the 70's were running just over 2000 HP.

[old rigger]

Thats pretty bad ass Old Rigger, I would like to rack your mind with all the old stuff over a 30 pack.:D
I'm afraid that wouldn't be much of a expedition, and as long as you can handle 27 out of that 30, I'll be ok. Man...the older I get the more of a light weight I've become when it comes to booze. :rolleyes:

[steelcomp]

Thats intersting cause i was talking to a guy that runs a top Alky funny car that Grimes was tunning last year and he was saying they are only running about 3500 hp. Either way this thread is interesting to say the least with all the different stories and ideas floating around.6000, 8000, 2000, 10,000...I love the way these numbers get thrown around! LOL! No offense to @theRVR, but I think your numbers are coming off cereal boxes or something. :D
I think this is one of the best threads on this site in years.

[Jetboatguru]

Maybe there's an old bff in someone's garage then. Not that they were any faster the the current TAF's but who knows with today's technology applied. I remember watching Al Bush, Tom Black and a contingent of others run them back in the 70's at Long Beach and Ming. Then the class kind of faded away I'm assuming because of costs and possibly safety concerns, really can't remember the actual reason it disappeared. This was back in the NDBA days.
Mike,
The Nightmare team from Washington ran last weekend in Oregon as a TFF. They made a few runs and ran the same times to the 1/8th on 6 cylinders that their TAF runs on 8.
I think that today you could get a TFF to run huge numbers because of the newer starting system (from a dead stop.) The propeller cavitation would allow for more horsepower. We are trying to get IHBA to allow a TFF class with major restrictions. (6-71 blowers, 50%, iron heads, 427's) The problem is it may kill the TAF class.
Overkill,
the 1% rule works like this. If a boat runs under the current record on any given pass then it is said to "Have legged the record"
This can be in qualifying or eliminations. From that point he needs to run within 1% of his legged run to back it up and obtain the new record. This can be done on any pass during the race.
For example ( I will use round numbers to make it a little clearer)
Let's say the current record in a class is 7.01.
Boat A goes and runs 7.00 so he has a leg up on the new record. He needs to back it up within 1% (.07) so the backup run can be no slower 7.07 Anything within that 1% will grab the new record.
If Boat A runs within 1% UNDER his record leg, (lets say 6.96) then the first pass of 7.00 will serve as a backup leg for the new run and the new record would be 6.96.
I hope this helps.

[@theRVR]

That's why I questioned him on that, a modern stout TAFC is runnning like you said, just over 3000 HP.
To the best of my knowledge, the fuel cars in the 70's were running just over 2000 HP.
In the mid 80's we use to use Billy Williams's dyno and a stout TAFC was producing 2800 HP then.

[Bense468]

Before Ashely stepped up to FC. Her AD was running 3500-3700 HP and thats out of the force camp LAST YEAR. 4500 seems a bit much for an alcohol motor. Just my uneducated opinion.
I personally think 6500 on fuel back in those days seems high too even at 90%. I'm thinking most BFJ were probably turning between 2000-2500 maybe an occasional 3k on a 50% rule. Again just my thoughts

[@theRVR]

Before Ashely stepped up to FC. Her AD was running 3500-3700 HP and thats out of the force camp LAST YEAR. 4500 seems a bit much for an alcohol motor. Just my uneducated opinion.
I personally think 6500 on fuel back in those days seems high too even at 90%. I'm thinking most BFJ were probably turning between 2000-2500 maybe an occasional 3k on a 50% rule. Again just my thoughts
4500 might be a little high, but were talking top running cars Manzo, Newberry, Payne.
Ashely drove a injected fuel car that Jerry Darian tunes, the only thing out of the Force camp was the $$$.

[UBFJ #454]

Here's a Link to something I Posted up in the 'Gear Heads' Section of this Forum ... I Post it as a starting point for you guys to go back and research the kind of Hp/Tq we really were able to make back in the early 60's through the 70's using fuel ...
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2811693#post2811693

[djdtpr]

4500 might be a little high, but were talking top running cars Manzo, Newberry, Payne.
Ashely drove a injected fuel car that Jerry Darian tunes, the only thing out of the Force camp was the $$$.
Well i guess you need to go tune OBannans car cause they are in seventh place in the standing and they can use you they are only capable of pulling around 3500 on their deal. They were pulling the same last year with Norm
grimes tuning it also. As far a dyno to read fuel motors i only know of one person in socal and that is the Force camp. So you are saying that an injected fuel motor will make more than a BAE blown injected alky deal? I do like all the info in this thread.

[djdtpr]

The current record is held by Shannon Stewart
161.68
7.13 et set back in 1995.
I could be wrong but didnt Dan Kirkman go 6.98 and back it with a 7.01 im not really concerned with the MPH it doesnt matter at the lights as you know better than most.

[Rexone]

Mike,
The Nightmare team from Washington ran last weekend in Oregon as a TFF. They made a few runs and ran the same times to the 1/8th on 6 cylinders that their TAF runs on 8.
I think that today you could get a TFF to run huge numbers because of the newer starting system (from a dead stop.) The propeller cavitation would allow for more horsepower. We are trying to get IHBA to allow a TFF class with major restrictions. (6-71 blowers, 50%, iron heads, 427's) The problem is it may kill the TAF class.
Tony why would they consider making a class that might kill TAF? Why not pull out the stops and let them run whatever the hell they want to differenciate the class. Is it a safety concern? Or is it that the fuel boats would just draw the interest and possibly participation away from TAF. I don't get it :confused:
Rexone = dumbass on this issue. :D

[Jetboatguru]

Tony why would they consider making a class that might kill TAF? Why not pull out the stops and let them run whatever the hell they want to differenciate the class. Is it a safety concern? Or is it that the fuel boats would just draw the interest and possibly participation away from TAF. I don't get it :confused:
Rexone = dumbass on this issue. :D
Mike,
Fegan will not allow it to happen. He said if we want to bring out a TFF and run it as an exhibition only then he would set aside some time. But he said he would not allow it as a class. The SDBA has opened their doors for it. I think Fegan is looking at it as hurting the TAFs (drawing interest away) so it wont happen with IHBA.

[Cas]

nothing to add about the then and now regarding et and speeds but since Rated X was mentioned in this thread, I found this in the July 1983 Hot Boat-
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04615.jpg
buyer will be guaranteed 145 mph!

[Cas]

also, here are a couple of pics from Chowchilla 1985.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04601.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04602.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l204/Cas2006/old%20magazines/DSC04599.jpg
I had a whole bunch of pics from back then but I think most were lost somewhere when I got divorced.

[@theRVR]

Well i guess you need to go tune OBannans car cause they are in seventh place in the standing and they can use you they are only capable of pulling around 3500 on their deal. They were pulling the same last year with Norm
grimes tuning it also. As far a dyno to read fuel motors i only know of one person in socal and that is the Force camp. So you are saying that an injected fuel motor will make more than a BAE blown injected alky deal? I do like all the info in this thread.
Two complete different gear ratios, injected fuel has taller gear ratios, and blown alcohol has a shorter gear. But yes an injected fuel motors makes more power that a blown alcohol.

[steelcomp]

Two complete different gear ratios, injected fuel has taller gear ratios, and blown alcohol has a shorter gear. But yes an injected fuel motors makes more power that a blown alcohol.You're going to have to prove that one.:rolleyes:

[@theRVR]

6000, 8000, 2000, 10,000...I love the way these numbers get thrown around! LOL! No offense to @theRVR, but I think your numbers are coming off cereal boxes or something. :D
I think this is one of the best threads on this site in years.
I don't want to offend anybody by just talking in the threads and throwing out some facts..... but I'm starting to think that if you had 2 clues they’d rub or maybe you’re the prize at the bottom of the cereal box..... I really don't think you understand what NITRO does to an engine.

[steelcomp]

I don't want to offend anybody by just talking in the threads and throwing out some facts..... but I'm starting to think that if you had 2 clues they’d rub or maybe you’re the prize at the bottom of the cereal box..... I really don't think you understand what NITRO does to an engine.Um, ah hell, you're right, man. I have no experience what so ever. Never even been near a TF car. Never worked on one, never had anything to do with one. I still wonder where you get your imaginary numbers. :rolleyes:

[@theRVR]

You're going to have to prove that one.:rolleyes:
TAD 5.103 284.75 04/01/07 Bill Reichert - Owosso, MI
'97 Bowen Baytown, TX
an injected dragster

[@theRVR]

Um, ah hell, you're right, man. I have no experience what so ever. Never even been near a TF car. Never worked on one, never had anything to do with one. I still wonder where you get your imaginary numbers. :rolleyes:
Hell I got some time right now so let's go to the Vegas race NHRA, I don't have a problem educating you.

[OverKill]

Hell I got some time right now so let's go to the Vegas race NHRA, I don't have a problem educating you.
@theRVR would you give us a little info. on yourself and background. Your shooting off a little hard here with only 34 threads. Why don't you build some status first than your threads might have a little more merit.
OverKill

[steelcomp]

Hell I got some time right now so let's go to the Vegas race NHRA, I don't have a problem educating you. Lets put it this way. I may know more than you think I do. Heck, I may know more than you do. You really don't know.
Cutting and pasting Reichert's record from the NHRA website dosen't make you an expert, and his record dosen't automatically mean Inj. Fuel engines make more power than TA engines. Way more to a good run than that.
I'm just going to leave it at that.
Sorry for the thread hijack.

[@theRVR]

Lets put it this way. I may know more than you think I do. Heck, I may know more than you do. You really don't know.
Cutting and pasting Reichert's record from the NHRA website dosen't make you an expert, and his record dosen't automatically mean Inj. Fuel engines make more power than TA engines. Way more to a good run than that.
I'm just going to leave it at that.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
you asked for prof and an injected car has the record well above blown alcohol
....but your not coming off like you know more

[@theRVR]

@theRVR would you give us a little info. on yourself and background. Your shooting off a little hard here with only 34 threads. Why don't you build some status first than your threads might have a little more merit.
OverKill
A couple of things; I have been around fuel cars for almost 40 years, I was on the starting line when Garlits (had his famous blow over in Englishtown, NJ) raced Gwinn there was more people on the starting then, than there was for the final.
I seen the development of the lock up clutch (Bernstein was the data car and I use to carry the floaters and disc from track to track for L&T Clutch - Lany and Tony).
I was part of the team that innovated the high helix supercharger.
I've worked/contracted with JE Piston, BAE, Littlefield Blowers, Stage V, SP Crankshaft, Edelbrock, TRD, …….

[steelcomp]

A couple of things; I have been around fuel cars for almost 40 years, I was on the starting line when Garlits (had his famous blow over in Englishtown, NJ) raced Gwinn there was more people on the starting then, than there was for the final.
I seen the development of the lock up clutch (Bernstein was the data car and I use to carry the floaters and disc from track to track for L&T Clutch - Lany and Tony).
I was part of the team that innovated the high helix supercharger.
I've worked/contracted with JE Piston, BAE, Littlefield Blowers, Stage V, SP Crankshaft, Edelbrock, TRD, …….
So you're a salesman?

[@theRVR]

Lets put it this way. I may know more than you think I do. Heck, I may know more than you do. You really don't know.
Cutting and pasting Reichert's record from the NHRA website dosen't make you an expert, and his record dosen't automatically mean Inj. Fuel engines make more power than TA engines. Way more to a good run than that.
I'm just going to leave it at that.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
lets go take your pick vegas or pomona?

[@theRVR]

So you're a salesman?
nice try, but far from.....

[steelcomp]

nice try, but far from.....What try? I'm trying to get a handle on who you are and what you know. So far you've said nothing worth while that makes you sound like any more than a groupie gopher. (no offense, you're just being a little vague)
Who did you race with? What team were you on? What car did you drive? etc.

[@theRVR]

What try? I'm trying to get a handle on who you are and what you know. So far you've said nothing worth while that makes you sound like any more than a groupie gopher. (no offense, you're just being a little vague)
Did you ever own a fuel car? Did you ever drive a fuel car? Did you ever build a fuel engine? Did you ever work on a fuel car or engine? Did you ever work directly for a fuel team, hands on, in the pits, or did you just work for companies that provided parts or services for some racing teams, and got to hang around a bunch?
so lets go to the races..... don't be mad because someone might know more than you.
I don’t want to make enemies and I know everybody's a know it all, well I'm just putting in my .02 and asking some questions.
yes, I've built fuel engines, worked on fuel cars, toured the NHRA, didn't own but helped with $$

[steelcomp]

so lets go to the races..... don't be mad because someone might know more than you.
I don’t want to make enemies and I know everybody's a know it all, well I'm just putting in my .02 and asking some questions.
yes, I've built fuel engines, worked on fuel cars, toured the NHRA, didn't own but helped with $$Know it all's...yeah, there's a lot of those. You give yourself an awful lot of credit, but you've got it all wrong. Not mad at all...I'm just trying to figure out if I know you, since you've been around fuel so much, for so long.
Never mind. It's cool. You're cool. Glad you're here on the boards. :D

[Sleeper CP]

The calculated HP of a Chrysler fuel engine on the asphalt in the 80’s was 6500 HP and in the late 60's was 3500. I know the boats didn't have the HP that the cars did, but the fuel boats had to make a lot more than 3500.
theRVR,
Part of the questioning of your numbers is the fact that they are much higher than anyone here remembers at the time. They seem like magazine correction factor numbers.
I took my wife to her first NHRA event at Pomona in '89 and I remember the anouncer saying after the first pass " that was a combined 9,000 hp you just saw and heard run down the track". He didn't say that was 13,000 hp you just saw. And then every year the calculations just kept getting higher and higher.
Edit: When Ormsby ran his 4.88 I think I remember the number of 4,800 hp ? But maybe not.
I think Car and Driver magazine did a story on Ormsby in May of 1991 if someone can find the mag.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ahsumtoy]

So I see it was a 6.69. my mistake. With this information posted
181 mph @ THE 1/8TH
169MPH @ THE QUARTER
I will respectfully call BS on the 181 mph. Just my unedumacated opinion. The math doesn't add up. That, or the Goin Places II was the least efficient POS on the second half of the course ever! But at 169mph out the back door, it doesn't sound like it was. Again, just my opinion and that may be worth a little less than 2 cents. BTW Andy Dement has 3 or 4 time slips where he was Top MPH qualifier in TAF. One of the slips showed 527 mph. Another one I think he was lagging and ran 400mph.
In my post I said Scott Hamilton said Going Places ran 181mph at half track. I never said what it ran at the 1/4 mile. Where did you get 169mph?

[pattymelt18]

In my post I said Scott Hamilton said Going Places ran 181mph at half track. I never said what it ran at the 1/4 mile. Where did you get 169mph?
Just left the diverter shop read the timeslip myself it said 3.81 seconds at 1/8mile the speed was 183.69 the total et was only a 7.10 @143 tim basically said he couldnt see so he got out of it, theres also two other time slips with matchn 1/8ths times also. so which its the quickest i dont know or is it the fastest maybe not but thats the story from the horses mouth.

[ahsumtoy]

Just left the diverter shop read the timeslip myself it said 3.81 seconds at 1/8mile the speed was 183.69 the total et was only a 7.10 @143 tim basically said he couldnt see so he got out of it, theres also two other time slips with matchn 1/8ths times also. so which its the quickest i dont know or is it the fastest maybe not but thats the story from the horses mouth.
Thats great info! Now watch, some "expert" will come on and say it's BS because his flatbottom can't do that, so no way a jet can.

[Cas]

Thats great info! Now watch, some "expert" will come on and say it's BS because his flatbottom can't do that, so no way a jet can.
there's no sense posting facts. Read it above, the record really isn't a record because it was retired and is no longer on the books. That means that it didn't really happen and those time slips were just a figment of pattymelt's imagination.
I wonder if the local county records building burned down and the records were lost, would I still exist? :D

[old rigger]

[QUOTE=Cas;2823165 I wonder if the local county records building burned down and the records were lost, would I still exist? :D[/QUOTE]
Evidently not. :)

[old rigger]

Just left the diverter shop read the timeslip myself it said 3.81 seconds at 1/8mile the speed was 183.69 the total et was only a 7.10 @143 tim basically said he couldnt see so he got out of it, theres also two other time slips with matchn 1/8ths times also. so which its the quickest i dont know or is it the fastest maybe not but thats the story from the horses mouth.
FOUL! It never happened! The clocks were fast! I wasn't there to see it! It doesn't figure into my mathematical equation! I have to run alky! He ran Fuel! I can't get my hardware to hook up! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Very nice post pattymelt, very nice. So STILL after all the bull sheet the answer is Going Places II being the fastest jet ever. I''m very happy right now, and all's right with the world. :)

[Oldsquirt]

there's no sense posting facts. Read it above, the record really isn't a record because it was retired and is no longer on the books. That means that it didn't really happen and those time slips were just a figment of pattymelt's imagination.
I wonder if the local county records building burned down and the records were lost, would I still exist? :D
No, it just means that a person might have to actually contact the sanctioning body(if it still exists) and find out if they kept records of the records through all the years. "Retiring" a record doesn't mean they burned all the evidence. I'm surprised that some of the guys that have all the old magazines and race programs and such, haven't chimed in with info here. I'm sure that the yearly records must have been published.
This is all moot, though, as far as the timeslips Tim showed to Pattymelt. The big speed numbers he showed him were all 1/2 track speeds and those have NEVER been used as official record data. Only the E.T. and finishline speeds qualified for a record. He could have run 183mph at 1/2 track on every pass for a year. It still never would have been, nor would it be today, a "record".
It does appear(in this thread, at least) to be the highest speed achieved for which there is legitimate documentation.

[Sleeper CP]

[QUOTE=Oldsquirt;2823492}He could have run 183mph at 1/2 track on every pass for a year. It still never would have been, nor would it be today, a "record".
It does appear(in this thread, at least) to be the highest speed achieved for which there is legitimate documentation.[/QUOTE]
Just my .02 the 183 at half track seems like a timming light misfire to me.
Some one else has mentioned it and I have seen it at Pomona T/F car at 400+ at the lights or Pro Stock at 300+ sometimes the lights just get a glitch.
I could be wrong, but when you see one half track speed like that and the record for the quarter mile is less well it might be worth looking at..
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Squirtcha?]

Betcha didn't expect all this from a simple question eh James.
"So who knows the answer to this?"
Apparently nobody............and everybody.
Got guys ready to go to war over this question it seems.

[ahsumtoy]

It's obvious that we're never going to agree on half track speeds, non-records, etc. So let's assume that the fastest record pass was the one Oldsquirt posted earlier from Oct. 1983 at 176.39 mph by Going Places. Can anyone produce a documented record speed better than that?

[Sleeper CP]

It's obvious that we're never going to agree on half track speeds, non-records, etc. So let's assume that the fastest record pass was the one Oldsquirt posted earlier from Oct. 1983 at 176.39 mph by Going Places. Can anyone produce a documented record speed better than that?
Now there you go trying to be reasonable:idea: ;)
But that would seem to be correct.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Oldsquirt]

Just my .02 the 183 at half track seems like a timming light misfire to me.
Some one else has mentioned it and I have seen it at Pomona T/F car at 400+ at the lights or Pro Stock at 300+ sometimes the lights just get a glitch.
I could be wrong, but when you see one half track speed like that and the record for the quarter mile is less well it might be worth looking at..
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Unless he had other 1/2 track numbers in that same range, I would agree. That's the whole reason behind having to "back up" a record....making sure it wasn't a timing system malfunction.
Interestingly, on that same note, I read a piece earlier this year by someone suggesting that the "back up" run be discontinued by the NHRA because their timing sytems were so accurate. :rolleyes: . I keep remembering that ProStock bike final a year ago where the first bike across the line didn't get the win until after the NHRA officials reviewed ESPN's video of the run. Clearly a problem in the timing system.
Betcha didn't expect all this from a simple question eh James....
Unfortunately, Dan, what seems like a simple question can be interpreted many different ways. That is why you have people answering it in just as many ways. Was he asking fastest ever or fastest currently competing? Did he care if it was a record or just a one time fast pass? Did he even realize that records in drag boat racing got "retired"?
Personally, I bet a lot of people learned some things from reading this thread.
Got guys ready to go to war over this question it seems.
Nah, I don't think anybody is "ready to go to war", or even really arguing. Just lots of people answering the question as THEY interpreted it and others trying to clarify certain details(like what constitutes a "record").

[Bense468]

Hell I got some time right now so let's go to the Vegas race NHRA, I don't have a problem educating you.
I know this was directed towards Steelcomp but...
I'm game for learning a thing or two about fuel... I am still not sure if I am going to make vegas, do to the fact I will be at pomona the next weekend and then phoenix for the boat drags the weekend after. If you wanna meet up at Pomona and grab a beer. I should be out there all 4 days.

[old rigger]

Unless he had other 1/2 track numbers in that same range, I would agree. That's the whole reason behind having to "back up" a record....making sure it wasn't a timing system malfunction.
Interestingly, on that same note, I read a piece earlier this year by someone suggesting that the "back up" run be discontinued by the NHRA because their timing sytems were so accurate....
pattymelt18 said there were other time slips with matching 1/2 track numbers.
This way off subject but when I saw your NHRA (no hot rods allowed) reference it reminded that is sucks that Wally Parks passed the other day. Another legend gone. 94 years old though...not bad.

[OverKill]

Betcha didn't expect all this from a simple question eh James.
"So who knows the answer to this?"
Apparently nobody............and everybody.
Got guys ready to go to war over this question it seems.
Ya no kidding Dan. I feel pretty popular all of the sudden :D It is really informative to hear all the history of this sport. I will bet there is alot more to uncover and blow the dust off of.
OverKill

[Bense468]

pattymelt18 said there were other time slips with matching 1/2 track numbers.
This way off subject but when I saw your NHRA (no hot rods allowed) reference it reminded that is sucks that Wally Parks passed the other day. Another legend gone. 94 years old though...not bad.
I was just at the Twilight cruise last night in front of the museum and they did a nice little tribute to Wally. Good man, did a lot for the sport.

[Sleeper CP]

Just left the diverter shop read the timeslip myself it said 3.81 seconds at 1/8mile the speed was 183.69 the total et was only a 7.10 @143 tim basically said he couldnt see so he got out of it, theres also two other time slips with matchn 1/8ths times also. so which its the quickest i dont know or is it the fastest maybe not but thats the story from the horses mouth.
pattymelt18 said there were other time slips with matching 1/2 track numbers.
.
Oh shit...No Shit:idea: :eek:
WHat does that now tell us ....Hummmm
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Oldsquirt]

pattymelt18 said there were other time slips with matching 1/2 track numbers.
This way off subject but when I saw your NHRA (no hot rods allowed) reference it reminded that is sucks that Wally Parks passed the other day. Another legend gone. 94 years old though...not bad.
Rich, I think he was referring to 1/8th mile ET not MPH, when he said "matching 1/8th mile times", but I could be wrong.
I agree about Wally Parks. He sure lived a long and productive life. Reading some of the tributes to him on the NHRA site were quite interesting.

[old rigger]

Rich, I think he was referring to 1/8th mile ET not MPH, when he said "matching 1/8th mile times", but I could be wrong.
I think you're right. Duh to me.

[Sleeper CP]

Pattymelt did you see E.T. or E.T. and MPH?
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[@theRVR]

I know this was directed towards Steelcomp but...
I'm game for learning a thing or two about fuel... I am still not sure if I am going to make vegas, do to the fact I will be at pomona the next weekend and then phoenix for the boat drags the weekend after. If you wanna meet up at Pomona and grab a beer. I should be out there all 4 days.
PM me.... I like beer

[pattymelt18]

Pattymelt did you see E.T. or E.T. and MPH?
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
you know when youre a kid and the first time you see a set of tits in youre face and youre eyes light up and you think holy shit thats the real deal well lets leave it at that.:)

[Cas]

ok, all I have found so far in the Hot Boat mags I have from the 80's is 158 by Going Places. What year was the 183 or 178 or whatever run?
I only have 1 HB from 1987, 2 from 86 and 3 from 85.....there wasn't much about racing although there is a pretty good article/interview with Bill Henderson senior in one of them.

[Bense468]

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/927/43gopsh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[-XTC-]

Either way - great thread! Any time a single question gets this much attention, criticism and responses this is a great read. Good stuff. :D

[BAE_557]

Here are a couple more pics
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/187043oiac-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1870blown_fuel_jet.jpg