H2O Full Throttle Photos - Never Available Again

[H2O - Full Throttle]

Morning all from Paris, France.
Hate having to post this but unfortunately due to the actions of Extreme Boat magazine we will not be posting images on the internet again, nor making them available for sale.
The reason for this is the shot of Motley Crew and Amsoil airborne that everyone knows I shot, as well as a number of others from Orange Beach OSS race I shot have been downloaded from the internet by them and used in their magazine. This is basically theft. We spend thousands of dollars travelling to races around the place to shoot great images and to have another magazine basically steal them from us sucks big time.
Sorry we have to do this guys but they have left us with no choice.
Ned

[BigDoug]

That really sucks for you.............and us !!

[Pete454]

Ned,
Your pics rock, And I was afraid of people stealing or using your pics especially from OB. what about putting a watermark accross them???

[H2O - Full Throttle]

Bob - Unfortunately since I am based downunder in NZ I dont have any recourse there in the United States. Gotta do what I gotta do.
Cheers
Ned

[FullUp]

Ned, what part of the story is missing? I've known Casey for a while and this is not his style.
By the way, you are one of the two top photographers of boat racing I have ever seen.

[MBlaster]

Pshhh what a bunch of a-holes.
I really enjoyed looking at your pics, they were awsome.

[H2O - Full Throttle]

FullUp - No part of the story is missing. The only places those images were posted were on OSO and on my own website forum.
The only place he could have got them from was there, as I sure as heck didnt give them to him. Why would I, its the best shot I have ever shot of powerboat racing and it was going to be our opening DPS for the Orange Beach coverage. There is NO way in the world I would have given him any of my images, they are opposition to us.
There is also NO way he could say he didnt know they were mine, as everyone knew they were mine. And besides if he says he didnt know then thats crap.
Ned

[FullUp]

Ned,
You need to call Casey or email him. EBM is runnng this as "news" from an industry wide press release received by EBM and others. The photos were included in the press release. Seems someone else is the source.

[Sleeper CP]

FullUp - No part of the story is missing. The only places those images were posted were on OSO and on my own website forum.
The only place he could have got them from was there, as I sure as heck didnt give them to him. Why would I, its the best shot I have ever shot of powerboat racing and it was going to be our opening DPS for the Orange Beach coverage. There is NO way in the world I would have given him any of my images, they are opposition to us.
There is also NO way he could say he didn't know they were mine, as everyone knew they were mine. And besides if he says he didn't know then thats crap.
Ned
There are rotten bastards in every line of work. That sucks and he sucks harder. :mad:
Sorry:(
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[H2O - Full Throttle]

FullUP - Sorry but dont buy that. Ron Polli is their Offshore editor and some of the pics were used with his news item. And HE also knows these pics were mine.
Ned

[FullUp]

Ned, I completely understand your dissatisfaction with this. Would anyone have known you didn't give permission for the use of the images in the press release? Did you even know someone was using your images in a press release?

[H2O - Full Throttle]

FullUp - Kiernan didnt use them in just a news item that was sent to him, he used them in two seperate, totally different items so please dont give me the line that he was sent them.
Ned

[Havasu_Dreamin]

What about taking legal action in NZ? Does EBM have any preseence there? And by presence they do not need to have a physicl presence if NZ has what is referred to as a minimum contacts law like we do here in the States. Also, if they were put up on OSO they might fall into the public domain at that point...Not really sure.....Sucks either way that they did that.....

[H2O - Full Throttle]

HD - When they are put up on the forum it doesnt change the fact that me as the photographer still own the Copyright for the images.
Ned

[Jbb]

Pretty low class move by EBM....Sorry to hear Ned....:(

[Havasu_Dreamin]

HD - When they are put up on the forum it doesnt change the fact that me as the photographer still own the Copyright for the images.
Ned
That's the part I wasn't sure about.....As has been said, sucks for sure.....

[Havasu Hangin']

How about splashing your logo on the front like the professional photogs do? If someone wants to buy/use them, send them a copy without the logo?
:confused:

[Not So Fast]

Well, I certainly enjoyed your photos and if it helps I can say I will never buy that magazine! There, that oughta makem shake in their boots, bastards. NSF

[RiverToysJas]

Extreme Boats has a magazine???? :confused:
J/K! :D
There are other options available to you H2O.......you can watermark all your photos posted. With big enough watermark, they won't be able to use them. Also post them at 72dpi, and 600pixels wide. Between the watermark and low-res small image, nobody should be printing them......in a magazine anyway.....
Good Luck!
RTJas :D

[Sportin' Wood]

Watermark them.

[FullUp]

FullUp - Kiernan didnt use them in just a news item that was sent to him, he used them in two seperate, totally different items so please dont give me the line that he was sent them.
Ned
Ned, the images apparently were sent to EBM. Have you contacted EBM? Seems this is just another Hot Boat 3 sided story. In any event, love your magazine and your photography. Keep up the good work. You bring the world of performance boating closer together.

[RiverToysJas]

Ned, the images apparently were sent to EBM.
The plot thickens.... :idea:
Well if they were sent for use in a story of some sort, then watermarking & resolution wouldn't apply. But neither would it matter if the images were posted on the internet somewhere......
RTJas :confused:

[H2O - Full Throttle]

Dont really give a crap what excuse they use. As far as I am concerned I posted them on two forums for people to view, thats it, nothing else. Ron Polli knows full well they are my images. Its up to the Publisher to make sure they have permission to use any images they are supposedly sent.
Like I said I own the copyright, never gave them to EBM or anyone else to use in their magazines or press releases.
Ned

[Jbb]

Im gonna swipe all of Ned's pictures.....and put them in the Kodak moments thread...:p

[RiverToysJas]

Dont really give a crap what excuse they use. As far as I am concerned I posted them on two forums for people to view, thats it, nothing else. Ron Polli knows full well they are my images. Its up to the Publisher to make sure they have permission to use any images they are supposedly sent.
Like I said I own the copyright, never gave them to EBM or anyone else to use in their magazines or press releases.
Ned
I don't want to disrespect, but you started this thread, I'm just trying to understand the issue.....
Did they get the images they used from an internet forum, or did you send them to EBM via another method....like email or FTP???
Wheather they had permission to publish is another issue.
Issue #1 - you are not posting on the internet anymore because you say someone printed your photos w/o permission after D/Ling them from the internet.
BUT if that's not how they got them, then why the big lockdown on internet posting? esp when you only need to watermark to avoid the problem.....
RTJas .....still :confused:

[H2O - Full Throttle]

RiverToysJas - Happy to answer your questions.
NO - I did NOT send ANY images to EBM magazine, via email, ftp, esp, carrier pigeon or any other means.
The ONLY place that these images were EVER made available to be seen was on two or three powerboat forums, these included Offshore Only, my own one and even here on ***boat. So the ONLY place they could have got the images was from off of one of the forums, NO WHERE else. There is NO way in the world I would send a competitor magazine some of my BEST images before i ran then in MY OWN magazine.
The original high res images are in my files at home in Kiwiland being used in the Orange Beach race layout of the issue we are working on now.
With regards to not posting anymore images, just my decision, thats all.
Ned

[Dave C]

Bingo....
that sucks, are you sure you can't see legal action? I would consult an intellectual property attorney her in Cali....
. Ron Polli knows full well they are my images. Its up to the Publisher to make sure they have permission to use any images they are supposedly sent.
Ned

[ULTRA26 # 1]

RiverToysJas - Happy to answer your questions.
NO - I did NOT send ANY images to EBM magazine, via email, ftp, esp, carrier pigeon or any other means.
The ONLY place that these images were EVER made available to be seen was on two or three powerboat forums, these included Offshore Only, my own one and even here on ***boat. So the ONLY place they could have got the images was from off of one of the forums, NO WHERE else. There is NO way in the world I would send a competitor magazine some of my BEST images before i ran then in MY OWN magazine.
The original high res images are in my files at home in Kiwiland being used in the Orange Beach race layout of the issue we are working on now.
With regards to not posting anymore images, just my decision, thats all.
Ned
Probably a good decision.

[FullUp]

Ned I'm quite sure you didn't deliver the images as you said. That doesn't mean a 3rd party didn't and in doing so, presented your images in a general press release as news. Maybe your beef is with a 3rd party.

[riverracerx]

I watermark my good ones!
http://www.riverracerx.com/rivercutie1/galleries/1/images/DSC_42.jpg
http://www.riverracerx.com/rivercutie1/galleries/1/images/DSC_42.jpg

[WYRD]

I watermark my good ones!
http://www.riverracerx.com/rivercutie1/galleries/1/images/DSC_42.jpg
not the "good" parts though:devil: :D

[Phat Matt]

NO - I did NOT send ANY images to EBM magazine, via email, ftp, esp, carrier pigeon or any other means.
I'm calling bullshit. I think I saw a pigeon with a 44' MTI taped to it. ;)
That sucks Ned. Your pics are great and I enjoy looking at them. I say watermark them like everyone else says and continue to post them.
Matt

[yopengo]

Dont really give a crap what excuse they use. As far as I am concerned I posted them on two forums for people to view, thats it, nothing else. Ron Polli knows full well they are my images. Its up to the Publisher to make sure they have permission to use any images they are supposedly sent.
Like I said I own the copyright, never gave them to EBM or anyone else to use in their magazines or press releases.
Ned
I think we all know that Brown did. You know those Canatards don't give a shit about intellectual property. :D
Ned, sorry to hear about your images. I really enjoy your photography. I usually have your calendars as my backgrounds. :(

[Rexone]

I watermark my good ones!
http://www.riverracerx.com/rivercutie1/galleries/1/images/DSC_42.jpg
I could remove that watermark in about 10 min w PS and doubt whether you'd know. The key to not being knocked off for print is low resolution. There's no way to convert a low rez image to print quality of a mag without losing the sharpness and detail, hence the photo quality that magazines demand. If you post at 72 dpi and not a huge image dimensionally you are pretty safe from having your photos hacked for print.
All that said, sorry to hear about this problem Ned. I always enjoyed viewing your photos :(

[acatitude]

I watermark my good ones!
http://www.riverracerx.com/rivercutie1/galleries/1/images/DSC_42.jpg
I wouldn't mind watermarking that for ya:D

[Jordy]

I wouldn't mind watermarking that for ya:D
You going to at least give her something to clean up the "water" with afterwards??? :D :D :D

[Lightning]

This must be a tough decision for you - never posting photos again and being in the photography business. Have you considering changing your system of posting them, lots of good ideas so far....low resolution, smaller size, watermark, etc... Seems like the internet and exposure to these photos may be beneficial to your business, why cut it off completely? Take it as a learning experience and adjust moving forward....just my $0.02
By the way, you're photos are the best.

[AZKC]

Im gonna swipe all of Ned's pictures.....and put them in the Kodak moments thread...:p
You mean those pics you post arn't yours:(
;)

[H2O - Full Throttle]

FullUp - You seem to be defending EBM a lot, bottom line if they did get them sent then they also screwed up, onus is on them to check if images are legal to be printed. They didnt, end of story so they are just as guilty as those who supposedly sent them the images.
Ned

[spectras only]

Im gonna swipe all of Ned's pictures.....and put them in the Kodak moments thread...:p
JBB , I'm going to send this post company wide . Watch out when you misuse the name of my company too often :idea: :D .
I've heard China will have an Extreme Boating Magazine , probably using Ned's
photographs :sqeyes: , J/K :D

[msc5195]

H20 Sorry to hear about your picture theft. I agree that YES the publisher should have checked even if they were sent to him via 3rd party. I do ask though from the very begining of this thread you have totally avoided everyones suggestion of watermarking your photos. i have also been on some photography sites where you could not print or save the pics without doing a screen shot. There are several different ways out there to protect your pictures.
Just my 2¢

[Racey]

If some other magazine reprinted EBM's photos you know they would be screaming high hell, and have their lawyers barking all over on it. I'd be pissed as well, nothing worse than having your stuff taken without giving you any credit even.... That's as bad as plagiarism.
<--Fellow Kiwi (1/2 anyway :D )

[Flashwave]

FullUp - You seem to be defending EBM a lot, bottom line if they did get them sent then they also screwed up, onus is on them to check if images are legal to be printed. They didnt, end of story so they are just as guilty as those who supposedly sent them the images.
Ned
Hi Ned,
As a practical matter hundreds of news press releases are sent out every day. Publishers view the copy and images for a copyright notice and if one does not exist, they run it if they feel its newsworthy. I realize there is not a requirement to put a copyright notice on your work to claim the copyright.
Your beef should be with the party that sent out an industry-wide press release with your images. How is a publisher to know if you did or did not allow them to use your images. Your complaint is with them. Why are you not asking the author of the news press release why they used your images?
FreezeFrame marks all of their work as do most professional sports photographers. Your work is particularly good and you should consider marking as well as others have suggested.

[Tequila-John]

sucks

[shueman]

A typical internet posted jpeg is gonna look like crap when published...not enough lines of resolution. If they published w/o permission, they should payup...

[77charger]

Even though if watermarked yes a good photoshop person can remove them.
post them small it doesnt show well to potential customers either post them large they take them for free.:mad: while saying thanks for sharing.
I like the idea of sites that wont let you download them.If it were my pic taken and displayed in a mag without my permission i would take it to court.Esp since that one lady got hit hard for downloading songs (copyright infringement)

[SCOPE]

Too bad Ned....I think Steve must be out of town or something? Not sure....... :confused: :confused: :confused:

[FullUp]

Even though if watermarked yes a good photoshop person can remove them.
post them small it doesnt show well to potential customers either post them large they take them for free.:mad: while saying thanks for sharing.
I like the idea of sites that wont let you download them.If it were my pic taken and displayed in a mag without my permission i would take it to court.Esp since that one lady got hit hard for downloading songs (copyright infringement)
In this case reputable people with known good character, representing a brand name, used them in a news press release to promote their team, sponsor, and racing organization. Makes you wonder if they had permission or thought they had permission. There's always more to the story than that which is presented on Hot Boat.

[H2O - Full Throttle]

FullUp - Cut the crap, are u their spokesperson or something. Its plain and simple in case u cant understand my posts.
1. They DID NOT have permission to use them.
2. They WERE NOT given them, they took them from the internet.
3. Extreme Boats magazine DID NOT have permission to use them.
4. Extreme Boats magazine DID NOT check to see if they had permission to use them.
Am I going to take this lying down, not at all. I am not going to have my images stolen and then sit back and accept it.
Ned (The person who took the images)
P.S. As far as I am concerned there is NOTHING MORE to this, I should know since it was my photos that were stolen.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

FullUp - Cut the crap, are u their spokesperson or something. Its plain and simple in case u cant understand my posts.
1. They DID NOT have permission to use them.
2. They WERE NOT given them, they took them from the internet.
3. Extreme Boats magazine DID NOT have permission to use them.
4. Extreme Boats magazine DID NOT check to see if they had permission to use them.
Am I going to take this lying down, not at all. I am not going to have my images stolen and then sit back and accept it.
Ned (The person who took the images)
Stolen?? Why post such important photes in a public forum?

[77charger]

In this case reputable people with known good character, representing a brand name, used them in a news press release to promote their team, sponsor, and racing organization. Makes you wonder if they had permission or thought they had permission. There's always more to the story than that which is presented on Hot Boat.
Bottom line is that the photographer is the only one to give permission to use a photo he took.He states he did not give permission what more is there to say?
I myself do some pictures of drag boats and cars here and there if i get a good pic i dont post it cause i know it can get taken and used rather show it to a potential buyer printed out even thought if it is only 15-20 bucks.

[FullUp]

Ned,
Why are you avoiding the question about the use of the images in the news press release? Did the author of the press release get the images from you? Did the author have your permission?
Nope, I have nothing to do with EBM. I'm reader your magazine, EBM, Powerboat, Hot Boat and many others.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Bottom line is that the photographer is the only one to give permission to use a photo he took.He states he did not give permission what more is there to say?
I myself do some pictures of drag boats and cars here and there if i get a good pic i dont post it cause i know it can get taken and used rather show it to a potential buyer printed out even thought if it is only 15-20 bucks.
Bingo

[Jbb]

Ned.....are the rumors true that you were actually the fifth Beatle?...

[FullUp]

Bottom line is that the photographer is the only one to give permission to use a photo he took.He states he did not give permission what more is there to say?
I myself do some pictures of drag boats and cars here and there if i get a good pic i dont post it cause i know it can get taken and used rather show it to a potential buyer printed out even thought if it is only 15-20 bucks.
The only thing to say is EBM did not download Ned's images or publish them as their own. Ned has been quick to claim they did and slow to "out" the people who actually downloaded and sent the pictures out in a news press release. Why is that Ned?
The author of a press release is responsible for it's content. The onus is on the author of the press release to clear the copyright. Electronic distribution in a press release is no different than printed distribution. Who's the victim (apart from Ned) and who's the culprit?

[hoolign]

I dont understand the problem here
There is a discalimer regarding copyrite on your main page..why cant you take legal action??
I like seeing your pics..and would like to see more of them.
I dont think it is time to lie down here! I think it is time to fight back!
Am I missing something here?? They printed a pic without permission or payment..and now YOU..are going to take it lying down?? Makes no sence to me!
Fight back!

[hoolign]

Ned.....are the rumors true that you were actually the fifth Beatle?...
Brown was the 5th Beatle..until the incident:jawdrop:

[H2O - Full Throttle]

Full Up - Read my post. NO i DID NOT give ANYONE permission to use any of the images. The reason I havent said anything til now is I needed to be sure of who sent them to EBM, and it was only in the last two days that it was confirmed.
The person who sent the image or images to EBM was Teague Marine, BUT that being the case if you think EBM is guilt free then think again. As a publisher it is his DUTY of CARE to ensure he has permission to use ANY image in his magazine. We do all the time. Its one of the responsibilities of being a publisher. In addition EBM's Offshore Editor Ron Polli knew 150% that those images were mine, I can even show you emails from him which acknowledge this. And HE KNOWS damm well that I would never let another magazine use them before I put them in my own magazine.
So bottom line, yes Teague screwed up big time, but as far as I am concerned, and my lawyer is concerned, EBM failed in their duty of care to ensure they had copyright permission. They didnt.
The onus is on the author of the press release to clear the copyright.
Wrong - the Onus is on the Publisher of the magazine who prints the images.
Ned

[H2O - Full Throttle]

Stolen?? Why post such important photes in a public forum?
Ultra - I used to put pics online for people to enjoy, but that was a learning experience that I wont repeat again.
Ned

[FullUp]

Ned,
So is this a case of let's blame the messenger instead of the person who wrote and sent the message?
There is no such thing as bad PR. You've attracted a great deal of attention to your magazine. Now folks will be anxiously awaiting it's arrival. I know I will. Not for the great pictures (they have been overexposed all over the web site), but, for the editorial that captures the essence of the event surrounding the pictures.
Cheers!

[Magic34]

Ned,
So is this a case of let's blame the messenger instead of the person who wrote and sent the message?
There is no such thing as bad PR. You've attracted a great deal of attention to your magazine. Now folks will be anxiously awaiting it's arrival. I know I will. Not for the great pictures (they have been overexposed all over the web site), but, for the editorial that captures the essence of the event surrounding the pictures.
Cheers!
Not really, I just liked looking at the pictures he posted. I'm not buying a magazine.