How to brighten up my gelcoat?

[brianwhiteboy]

I have a boat that is in need of some assistance. It's a 74 Southwind with original gel coat and the boat is totally 'checked' from the sun. I already talked to Havasu Barney and he said that it wouldn't really be worth trying to fix.
My question is what can I do to at least bring out a little shine in the boat? A buffing wheel and some rubbing compound? The boat is white/orange/brown. What can I do to to brighten it up a little?

[XClutchboy725]

Brian,
Does your boat look kinda like mine?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/310Dads_Boat_jpeg.jpg
your description sure sounds like it's the same boat!

[brianwhiteboy]

pretty much.....but yours looks a hell of lot nicer! Is there anything you use?

[XClutchboy725]

elbow grease!!! eek! eek!
Seriously though, If yours is severely checked than Barney is right...drop back and punt!
Mine has been very well taken care of since 1974.
[ April 29, 2003, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: XClutchboy725 ]

[Squirtcha?]

Trust me when I say..........that picture doesn't do Jeff's boat justice. That thing looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor and into the nearest body of water.
My Kachina was in pretty tough shape and I went after it with a buffer wheel on an angle grinder and some cutting compound, then waxed it. It's still not great, but better than it was (she's a twenty footer), looks great from 20 feet. I'm told that if I had color sanded it first, it woulda turned out even better. Then again I didn't have the checkering thing. Just dull and milky.
http://www.homestead.com/jetboat/files/P1010037t.jpg

[1Bahnerjet]

O.K. Now just what is Color Sanding? Can anyone do it? or just some one who KNOWS what he's doing?
-----------------
Drive What You Own And Like What You Drive

[Squirtcha?]

There is some information here on the board somewhere with a pretty good set of instructions on how to do it. You might want to try doing a search on it.
Here's a link to the same question on Havasu Barney's board. Oh one thing I noticed. He didn't really cover the wet part of the deal. Use a sandpaper that is made for wetsanding and keep it wet using a bucket of water (I think some even use soapy water?)
Link to wetsanding instructions (http://www.havasubarney.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.pl?s=3eaf26b10668ffff;act=ST;f=44;t=138)
I believe that once you've finished the wet sanding, you can buff it out with a buffing wheel and some cutter, then polish. I just skipped the wetsanding and went to buffing, which is probably why mine is a twenty footer.
[ April 29, 2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[PLACECRAFT20]

I AM GOING TO ADD MY 2CENTS WORTH AND MY 20 HOURS OF GELL COAT EXPERIENCE.
BEFORE I START LET ME SAY THAT I GREW UP IN A BODY SHOP AND I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH BUFFING AND COLOR SANDING CARS.
WITH THIS BEING SAID, GELL COAT AND CAR PAINT ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE AS FAR AS REFINISHING. I STARTED MINE TWO WEEKS AGO AND IT NOW LOOKS LIKE GLASS. I WILL GIVE MY STEPS AND ANYONE CAN ADD THAT HAS MORE GELL COAT EXPERIENCE.
1 USE A FOAM HAND SANDING BLOCK WITH 1000 GRIT SAND PAPER AND LOTS OF WATER. SAND UNTILL ALL OF THE SURFACE IS EVEN.
2 USE THE SAME FOAM BLOCK AND RESAND WITH 1500 GRIT AND ALOT OF WATER. (THE WATER KEEPS THE PAPER CLEAN AND THE DIRT OFF OF WHAT YOU ARE SANDING.)
(NOW THE FUN PART, I TRIED TO BUFF WITH FOAM POLISHING PADS AND THEY CREATE TO MUCH HEAT. IN SHORT THEY MAKE THE GELL COAT LOOK SHITTY)
3 BUFF THE SANDED AREA WITH A WOOL BUFFING BONNET AND (I USED 3M ) A RUFF CUT BUFFING COMPOUND UNTILL ALL SANDING SCRATCHES ARE GONE AS WELL AS OTHER SCRATCHES THAT DID NOT SAND OUT. I HAVE A 20FT DAY CRUSIER THIS TOOK APROXIMATELY 8HRS.
(BUY THE WAY I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN BUFF THROUGH GELL COAT, DONT DO THIS TO A CAR FINISH)
4 BUFF AGAIN WITH A WOOL PAD WITH THE 3M EXTRA CUT COMPOUND UNTILL YOU HAVE REMOVED THE SCRATCHES FROM THE RUFF CUT. AGAIN PROBABLY 8HRS.
5 BUFF AGAIN WITH A WOOL PAD WITH 3M REGULAR COMPOUND TO REMOVE THE LAST SCRATCHES. ONLY ABOUT 4HRS THIS TIME.
6 BUFF AGAIN WITH A WOOL POLISH AND WAX PAD AND 3M GLAZE & SWIRL REMOVER. THESE PADS ARE A LITTLE SOFTER THAN THE REGULAR PADS. IT SHOULD REMOVE MOST OF THE SWIRLS AND START LOOKING GOOD.
7 FINNALLY USE A ORBITAL BUFFER WITH A TERRY OR WOOL POLISH AND WAX PAD AND REBUFF AGAIN. ANOTHER 4HRS. (IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE GLASS NOW)
8 APPLY YOUR FAVORITE WAX AND ENJOY. PROBABLY ANOTHER HOUR.
I WILL UPDATE THIS POST WITH PICTURES AND 3M PART NUMBERS IN THE MORNING.
I ALSO NEED TO SAY I TAPED OFF ALL UPHOLSTERY AND MY MOULDINGS TRAILER ETC. BEFORE BUFFING. I ALSO WASHED THE BOAT BETWEEN EVERY STAGE TO REMOVE THE HARSHER COMPOUND. THIS KEEPS THE JOB FRESH AND THE OLD COMPOUND FROM CONTAMINATING THE NEW PAD.
TH BUFFER I USED WAS A ELECTRONICLY CONTROLLED MAKITA SET AT ABOUT 1200RPM. I USED A PORTER CABLE ORBITAL THAT I PUCHASED FROM GRIOTS GARAGE WITH A WAX BONNET.

[Squirtcha?]

There's some good info.
Did ya use soap in the water when sanding or no. I've heard some that do and some that don't. Guess it's just a matter of personal preference?
Looking forward to the pics.

[DUCKY]

PLACECRAFT20:
(BUY THE WAY I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN BUFF THROUGH GELL COAT, DONT DO THIS TO A CAR FINISH)
4 BUFF AGAIN WITH A WOOL PAD WITH THE 3M EXTRA CUT COMPOUND UNTILL YOU HAVE REMOVED THE SCRATCHES FROM THE RUFF CUT. AGAIN PROBABLY 8HRS.
5 BUFF AGAIN WITH A WOOL PAD WITH 3M REGULAR COMPOUND TO REMOVE THE LAST SCRATCHES. ONLY ABOUT 4HRS THIS TIME.
6 BUFF AGAIN WITH A WOOL POLISH AND WAX PAD AND 3M GLAZE & SWIRL REMOVER. THESE PADS ARE A LITTLE SOFTER THAN THE REGULAR PADS. IT SHOULD REMOVE MOST OF THE SWIRLS AND START LOOKING GOOD.
7 FINNALLY USE A ORBITAL BUFFER WITH A TERRY OR WOOL POLISH AND WAX PAD AND REBUFF AGAIN. ANOTHER 4HRS. (IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE GLASS NOW)
8 APPLY YOUR FAVORITE WAX AND ENJOY. PROBABLY ANOTHER HOUR.
I WILL UPDATE THIS POST WITH PICTURES AND 3M PART NUMBERS IN THE MORNING.
Yes, you can go though the gel-coat. but your probably won't with the buffer. It's more likely that you will sand though it with the 1000 grit paper. If you start to see an eggshell effect forming in the gel, you are starting to sand through it, so STOP. What you can do is burn it (discolor) so keep the buffer moving, and when the compound is gone, STOP!
I don't go though quite as many steps. If you do a good job with the 1000 and 1500 grit paper, you should only have to buff the boat one time if you use a compound designed for gel coat, such as 3M Marine's "High Gloss gel coat compound", in the white and blue can (gallon and quarts) Use this compound with a "3M sbs" pad, and them polish with their "pefect it foam pad glaze" (with a foam pad...) watch this stuff though, if it slings around, it stains really bad. I do not like using wax boats, I prefer the glaze (or something like it) and leave it alone. If your boat is heavily oxidized, you might go 600, 1000, 1500, on the wet sanding, but look out, the 600 will go right through the gel if you are not careful. color sanding and buffing is long hard work, so stock up the fridge and have fun! The top and sides on a 18 foot boat will probably take 18-20 hours total.

[Danhercules]

Hey, Squitcha?,
Got any more pics of your boat? I cannot find them in the gallery.

[Squirtcha?]

Hey dan
Nope, I changed computers and haven't swapped over that harddrive to this one yet. The only one's I have are on my pages right now.

[1Bahnerjet]

PlaceCraft 20, After carefully reading your instructions, I walked out to boat pulled off cover and without even touching gel cote it looks 100% better, Maybe I'll vacuum the carpet. wink
---------------------
Drive What You Own And Like What You Drive

[old rigger]

what the hell, I think I'll throw my 2 cents as well.
Squirtcha, yes I learned to always add a little liquid dish soap to the water if you're using a bucket to sand with. Lots of guys just stick a nozzel on the hose and turn it down to a trickel and don't use a bucket. I like using a bucket. Dont put so much soap in that you have a bucket of water that you could wash a car with, just add some to the water and slush it around with you hand. Does 2 things, keeps the sandpaper clean and keeps the surface of the boat clean too. You pick up a little piece of grit in the paper (you can feel this grit by the way too) you'll just put in more deep scratches that you'll have to sand out. This is where guys run into problems, sanding the wrong way to begin with, buffing it out and seeing deep scratches still there. Then they have to go back and sand more, usually going through the gel.
The one thing I haven't seen anybody mention is using a squeegee. You're pissin in the wind with out one. After you sand an area, wipe it dry with the squeegee and look at the surface from and angle, not from above but down lower to the boat and you'll be able to see the areas you've missed (holidays) and the parts you've knocked down. you want the entire surface to have the same look to it, there will be a sheen to it, nothing shiney.
If all you have is an angle grinder to buff with, you have to be pretty careful or you'll burn the gelcoat. They spin way too many RPMS. Try to beg borrow or steal a buffer from someone. The easist way to go through gel is by using a grinder or aplying to much presure to the gel with the buffer. If you're local to Long Beach, I have 2 and you can borrow one if needed.
For compound I've always used the 3M stuff that's self de-grading. That way you dont have to use all the other stuff. I don't have the part # here but any good paint shop carries the stuff. One compound is all you need. Always keep your pad clean and move SLOWLY across the surface of the boat applying no more weight to the buffer than the weight of the machine. Moving quickly back and forth just causes swirls.
Always start out with 600 grit unless your blocking clear that might be over metalflake or that crappy wood grain shit. That clear has become very thin by just curing through the years in the sun. I use nothing but 1200 on clear.
ALWAYS using your squeegee to wipe the water away to see if you've removed each layer of sanding marks. Oh yeah, always soak your sandpaper for 24 hours in water before you start to sand. Dump the water the paper was soaking in. Any little specks of shit that have floated off will be suspended in the water now, and that's what you're trying you get rid of.
After you've done the 600 dance, go to 1000 then 1200. If you've done it right, the actual buffing process is a cake walk. You've got that surface just beggin' to be buffed out, and buffing out 1200 sanding is real easy.
Never buff in direct sunlight either, causes swirls too.
[ April 30, 2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: old rigger ]

[old rigger]

brianwhiteboy,
I see you live in LA. I'm in Long Beach. If you have the time someday, and can swing by, I'd like to take a look at what you were told is not worth fixing. I've never seen a boat that had the original gel on her that couldn't be brough back to at least some kind of life. Unless it was full of stains or gouges. Maybe it was re-geled sometime back and thats what is checking? I don't know but I'd like to check it out.
I'm not trying to drum up business or anything, cause I'm not in the boat biz anymore. If nothing else, we can wet sand a little bit, buff it out and see what's what.
[ April 30, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: old rigger ]

[PLACECRAFT20]

UPDATE ON PARTS NUMBERS I USED
3M EXTRA DUTY POLISHING COMPOUND 05954
3M PERFECT III EXTRA CUT COMPOUND 05936
3M PERFECT III RUBBING COMPOUND 05933
3M PERFECT III GLAZE 05937
I ALSO USED A CALIFORNIA WATERBLADE SQEEGE WHILE SANDING TO SEE IF IT HAD BEEN SANDED CORRECTLY.
I USE A RUNNING WATERHOSE TURNED DOWN REAL LOW FOR WATER.
I SURE WISH I KNEW ABOUT THE 3M GELCOAT COMPOUND BEFORE I STARTED MY JOB! HOPEFULLY IT CUTS ALOT QUICKER AND SAVES TIME.
FINNALY I MIGHT HAVE GONE OVERBOARD. I JUSTED WANTED A SHOW STOPING SHINE. I WILL POST PICTURES LATER. I DID NOT HAVE TIME TO TAKE THEM THIS MORNING.

[old rigger]

PC20,
I don't think you went over board and I bet your boat looks fantastic! I'd like to try some of those compounds you used myself. Always looking for a better way to do things...........thanks
I've used the orbital buffer too like you for the final coat of wax, works great. Wish they were around when I was a kid waxing molds after school. Would have made my afternoons a lot more fun.

[Squirtcha?]

brianwhiteboy
If I were you.........I'd take Old Rigger up on his offer. It's a real good opportunity to get some expert advice!

[TOOMNYTOYS]

I GUESS ILL ADD TO THIS AS I OWN A DETAIL COMPANY. I HAVE A VAST EXPERIANCE IN THE BOAT DETAILING AREA AS TO WHICH THAT IS WHAT I STARTED OUT DOING ONLY FOR A GOOD MANY YEARS. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GEL COAT AND CLEAR COAT "CARS FOR THE MOST PART".THE FIRST THING IS HEAT. THIS IS WHAT COMPOUNDS PRODUCE TO BUFF OUT THE OXIDATION OR DEFECTS. AUTO COMPOUNDS ARE DESIGHNED TO WORK IN THE RANGES OF 1200 RPM-1750 RPMS AS TO ANYTHING OVER THAT RANGE COULD AND WILL BURN THE CLEAR COAT AND CAUSE AWFULL LOOKING SWIRL MARKS THUS DESTORING THE PAINTS PROTECTION.BOAT COMPOUNDS HAVE A HIGHER RPM RATING AS YOU NEED TO BUFF ON GEL COAT AT RANGES TO 1500-2700 RPMS. SO NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN IF YOU USE THE RIGHT COMPOUNDS ON GEL COAT YOU CAN AND WILL PRODUCE A PERFECT FINISH WITH A SMALL AMOUNT OF LABOR THUS ELIMINATING THE NEED FOR COLOR SANDING ETC. LEAVE THE SANDING FOR REMOVING DEFECTS AND GEL REPAIRS. A GOOD SOURCE FOR PURCHASING 3M PRODUCTS IS WAL MART IN THE BOAT SECTION. THE WAL MARTS BY LAKES ETC. HAVE THE MOST SLECTION ON THE PRODUCTS AND THAT IS THE CHEAPEST PLACE YOU WILL GET THEM. THE ONE THING I ALWAYS START OFF WITH IS THE ONE STEP LIGHT OX COMPOUND. ILL DO A SECTION AND IF IT IS COMING OUT GOOD I PROCEEDE IN THAT MANOR. ITS NICE BEACAUSE AFTER ILL GO BACK AND HIT THE DEEPER AREAS WITH MORE ABRASIVE COMPOUNDS IF NEEDED. IF NOT THE JOB IS DONE AS TO WITCH THE ONE STEP IS A COMPOUND AND A WAX. SORRY FOR THE BOOK BUT I THOUGHT ILL ADD AND HOPEFULLY SAVE SOME OF YOU TIME AND MONEY. IF ANYONE HAS ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR ADVICE FEEL FREE TO E MAIL ME OR CALL ME ANY TIME 909 757 2800.
ONE LAST THING IS BE CARFULL USING THE BUFFER. IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS TOOL WATCH OUT FOR THE CORD AND WEDGING IT IN THE TRAILER, SWIM STEP, RAILS WELL YOU GET THE POINT HOPEFULLY. A "CORD WRAP" COULD VERY EASLY CAUSE SEROUSE INJURY.

[79Hawaiian]

I did some wet sanding last season, nothing too drastic. I do have metal-flake. I used 1500 and then put a coat of glaze on, not wax. I just took the boat out of storage (been a slacker) and it is still shining which is something it never has done before. It always looks like shit after I bring it home after the long winter. I keep it outside with 2 covers on it and the wax still burns off. The glaze is easier to apply, lasts longer, and gives a better shine.
I was told by a friend that Klass makes the best glaze out there. Just bought some but have not applied yet.

[DUCKY]

I too use a squeegee, just forgot to mention it. , you can wipe it down with a towel, though. Old rigger is right. Sand until your surface is even and the scratches go the same direction, then go finer. I usually use a squirt bottle for the water, and do add a little soap, too.
Good Luck.