Global Warming-"Greatest Scam in History"

[Flyinbowtie]

Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming 'Greatest Scam in History'
By John Coleman
Nov. 7, 2007
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/comments_about_global_warming/
It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.
Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild "scientific" scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minute documentary segment.
I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you "believe in." It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won't believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.
I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.
In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped. The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.
:D :eek: :)

[Sleeper CP]

Mr. Coleman is on here in San Diego on KUSI TV channel 9 he calls it his retirement job. He has talked about the subject from time to time. I'm glad he is getting some national attention on it.
He was on Rush's show on Friday with the guest host Paul Smith, he did a great job talking about the pier pressure and people chasing grant money.
Paul Smith even mentioned that he heard the envor wacko's talking about the ice retracting in Greenland to apoint here it is exposing tree trunks that have never been see before. Yes you read that right" tree trunks that have never been seen before".
Oh shit, that means that at some point it had been warm enough for tree's to grow there before. Well before the man started pumping greenhouse gases into the air.:eek: Boy that doesn't help their arguement does it.
I want so badly for this train to get derailed it needs to get derailed.... I hope it is not to late.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[bigq]

When it doesnt happen they just say it is because of them bringing attention to it.:rolleyes:
On the other hand if it gets us off of oil dependency from other countries I am all for it.;)

[Old Texan]

Gee does this mean al Gore is full of S--t????? The Nobel Prize has lost it's luster????
Who'd a' thunk.........:devil:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

On the other hand if it gets us off of oil dependency from other countries I am all for it.;)
I'm with you on this one

[Blown 472]

Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) the USA guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA. Moreover, the U.S. government agreed to divert oil from the USA, even if this causes domestic shortages. The U.S. government also guaranteed delivery of oil in U.S. tankers if commercial shippers become unable or unwilling to carry oil from the USA to Israel.
Think about this kiddies when you are pumping your tank full.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Moneypitt]

Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) the USA guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA. Moreover, the U.S. government agreed to divert oil from the USA, even if this causes domestic shortages. The U.S. government also guaranteed delivery of oil in U.S. tankers if commercial shippers become unable or unwilling to carry oil from the USA to Israel.
Think about this kiddies when you are pumping your tank full.:mad: :mad: :mad:
OK, another rant about Israel, but how does this relate to algores bullshit about global warming?.....The agreement you quoted is not a hoax, or "the greatest scam in American history". No one has made movies/docudramas denouncing what you have said here. Hell, most of us didn't even know about the oil to Israel agreement, so how could it be a scam or hoax?.....If someone stood up and said we do not have this agreement, if someone made a movie saying we don't have this agreement, never have had, and never will, That would be a scam......I see this agreement as an amendment to our initial pledge to help Israel combat the evil forces in their region, forces that are dead set on killing all the non muslims in the world. Be they Christians or jews. Blown, truth be told, the biggest scam is making people believe that Israel actually needs our help. If WE gave them the green light, believe me, it would be over in a few days. The Israelies don't fight wars like we do, they go in, kick ass, and if necessary, stay to prevent the same armies from regrouping. We could learn a great deal about how to eliminate the terror threat against us from Israel. I say let them do what is necessary to bring peace to the middle east, once and for all.........But wait, we can't let them do that because of Arab oil that WE are so dependant on......Catch 22, they hold back, at our request, so we, in turn say look, if push comes to shove down the road we will back you up with OIL for your military machine.....If you dug deep enough you'll probably find a mirrored agreement from them to us in time of need.......No Blown, not a scam or a hoax, just something quietly worked out among allies in the war on terror and the much publicized Jihad against every man, woman, and child that is not muslim..........Remember Blown "The enemy of our enemy, is our friend"...........MP

[bigq]

Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) the USA guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA. Moreover, the U.S. government agreed to divert oil from the USA, even if this causes domestic shortages. The U.S. government also guaranteed delivery of oil in U.S. tankers if commercial shippers become unable or unwilling to carry oil from the USA to Israel.
Think about this kiddies when you are pumping your tank full.:mad: :mad: :mad:
Ah more Jew bashing..fun:rolleyes:
Here is the wording from the memorandum, no "guarantee", a best effort for them to purchase from the US if they have no other means. The strategic supply is for US consumption also since we barely drill from our own shores.
The United States recognizes that the Egypt-Israel Agreement initialed on Sept. 1, 1975 (hereinafter referred to as the agreement), entailing the withdrawal from vital areas in Sinai, constitutes an act of great significance on Israel's part in the pursuit of final peace. That agreement has full United States support.
1. The United States Government will make every effort to be fully responsive, within the limits of its resources and Congressional authorization and appropriation, on an ongoing and long-term basis, to Israel's military equipment and other defense requirements, to its energy requirements and to its economic needs. The needs specified in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4 below shall be deemed eligible for inclusion within the annual total to be requested in fiscal year '76 and later fiscal years.
2. Israel's long-term military supply needs from the United States shall be the subject of periodic consultations between representatives of the U.S. and Israeli defense establishments, with agreement reached on specific items to be included in a separate U.S.-Israeli memorandum. To this end, a joint study by military experts will be undertaken within three weeks. In conducting this study, which will include Israel's 1976 needs, the United States will view Israel's requests sympathetically, including its request for advanced and sophisticated weapons.
3. Israel will make its own independent arrangements for oil supply to meet its requirements through normal procedures. In the event Israel is unable to secure its needs in this way, the United States Government, upon notification of this fact by the Government, of Israel, will act as follows for five years, at the end of which period either side can terminate this arrangement on one year's notice.
(a) If the oil Israel needs to meet all its normal requirements for domestic consumption is unavailable for purchase in circumstances where no quantitative restrictions exist on the ability of the United States to procure oil to meet its normal requirements, the United States Government will promptly make oil available for purchase by Israel to meet all of the aforementioned normal requirements of Israel. If Israel is unable to secure the necessary means to transport such oil to Israel, the United States Government will make every effort to help Israel secure the necessary means of transport.
(b) If the oil Israel needs to meet all of its normal requirements for domestic consumption is unavailable for purchase in circumstances where' quantitative restrictions through embargo or otherwise also prevent the United States from procuring oil to meet its normal requirements, the United States Government will promptly make oil available for purchase by Israel in accordance with the International Energy Agency conservation and allocation formula as applied by the United States Government, in order to meet Israel's essential requirements. If Israel is unable to secure the necessary means to transport such oil to Israel, the United States Government will make every effort to help Israel secure the necessary means of transport.
Israeli and U.S. experts will meet annually or more frequently at the request of either party, to review Israel's continuing oil requirement.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Gee does this mean al Gore is full of S--t????? The Nobel Prize has lost it's luster????
Who'd a' thunk.........:devil:
Not sure that it means anything other than someone's opinion :D
Just curious how a TV Weatherman and founder of a cable weather channel qualifies as an expert in the field of Climatology?
Is this another reliebale piece from The Blogosphere? :) :)

[bigq]

Not sure that it means anything other than someone's opinion :D
Just curious how a TV Weatherman and founder of a cable weather channel qualifies as an expert in the field of Climatology?
Is this another reliebale piece from The Blogosphere? :) :)
Same thing that qualifies all the other BS scientist that signed the consensus paper...lol "consensus":rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

I'm with you on this one
Great! We all finally agree. This does mean you support drilling ANWR and off shore right?

[Sleeper CP]

Not sure that it means anything other than someone's opinion :D
Just curious how a TV Weatherman and founder of a cable weather channel qualifies as an expert in the field of Climatology?
Is this another reliebale piece from The Blogosphere? :) :)
Are you curious what makes an ex-VP an expert. Mr. Coleman has spent many years studying weather and it's trends. Your question about how starting the weather channel makes him an expert is as bout as stupid as a guy who didn't know better said to me "just because Bruce Crower has a company named after him, that doesn't make him an expert on making horsepower" Phuking idiot.
Mr. Coleman talked about talking to his mentor, a PHd from MIT and other's that he talked to about this subject. His has studied Climatology for 30 plus years, far longer than Al Gore, do you consider Gore and expert:confused:
I have heard Mr. Coleman on numerours ocasions talk about how complicated computer weather models are, they are complicated enough for 2 weeks out, the global warming wacko's want to tell us what is going to happen 20 years out... your kidding me aren't you. As far as the computer model's go ...
Garbage in Garbage out..
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Schiada76]

Not sure that it means anything other than someone's opinion :D
Just curious how a TV Weatherman and founder of a cable weather channel qualifies as an expert in the field of Climatology?
Is this another reliebale piece from The Blogosphere? :) :)
Oh fer ****s sake.:rolleyes:
More lib think from the resident leftist who prefers to believe a POLITICIAN who has been proven over and over again to be an abject liar over a WEATHERMAN in regards to................................................ ..the weather.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

Are you curious what makes an ex-VP an expert. Mr. Coleman has spent many years studying weather and it's trends. Your question about how starting the weather channel makes him an expert is as bout as stupid as a guy who didn't know better said to me "just because Bruce Crower has a company named after him, that doesn't make him an expert on making horsepower" Phuking idiot.
Mr. Coleman talked about talking to his mentor, a PHd from MIT and other's that he talked to about this subject. His has studied Climatology for 30 plus years, far longer than Al Gore, do you consider Gore and expert:confused:
I have heard Mr. Coleman on numerours ocasions talk about how complicated computer weather models are, they are complicated enough for 2 weeks out, the global warming wacko's want to tell us what is going to happen 20 years out... your kidding me aren't you. As far as the computer model's go ...
Garbage in Garbage out..
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Liberals define garbage in garbage out.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Steve 1]

Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) the USA guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA. Moreover, the U.S. government agreed to divert oil from the USA, even if this causes domestic shortages. The U.S. government also guaranteed delivery of oil in U.S. tankers if commercial shippers become unable or unwilling to carry oil from the USA to Israel.
Think about this kiddies when you are pumping your tank full.:mad: :mad: :mad:
Bent your knowledge of History is piss poor to say the least, Suggestion do some research on it!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Are you curious what makes an ex-VP an expert. Mr. Coleman has spent many years studying weather and it's trends. Your question about how starting the weather channel makes him an expert is as bout as stupid as a guy who didn't know better said to me "just because Bruce Crower has a company named after him, that doesn't make him an expert on making horsepower" Phuking idiot.
Mr. Coleman talked about talking to his mentor, a PHd from MIT and other's that he talked to about this subject. His has studied Climatology for 30 plus years, far longer than Al Gore, do you consider Gore and expert:confused:
I have heard Mr. Coleman on numerours ocasions talk about how complicated computer weather models are, they are complicated enough for 2 weeks out, the global warming wacko's want to tell us what is going to happen 20 years out... your kidding me aren't you. As far as the computer model's go ...
Garbage in Garbage out..
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Gore is no expert on the science of Climatology. Global Warming wackos or Wackos who state that Global Warming is a hoax and a scam. Take your pick. I am not as easily convinced as you are about many things, and this issue is one of them. Fact is the climate is warming. The question remains is man having any affect on this process. Kicking our addiction to foreign oil, is a good thing regardless.
When Coleman's mentors, and the majority of this scientific community start speaking out with such authority, then maybe. Until then, I will continue to listen, learn and continue to support alternative energy sources and better fuel efficiency.
Are you stating that being a TV weather man and starting a cable weather channel make Colman an expert of climate change?
Phuking idiot. If this was directed at me please let me know.

[Kachina26]

Bent your knowledge of History is piss poor to say the least, Suggestion do some research on it!
But, he did. And the source (http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4504) is extremely reliable:rolleyes:

[Steve 1]

But, he did. And the source (http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4504) is extremely reliable:rolleyes:
Just went to the site and found these Gems Bent forgot to post here.
Must Reads . . .
OIL prices aren't rising - the US dollar is plummeting!
Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel’s oil supply – no matter what?
Yes, the War is for Oil - and the Oil is for israel
IRAQ Oil to be Shipped to ISRAEL
The Russians Are Coming
Redrawing Borders (to get at the OIL)
Mike Gravel, Rocks!
Condi’s Albright Moment
israeli pipedreams
OIL roads lead to israel
Secret Relationship Between israel and Oil
Kazakh oil fund pours millions into israel
Israeli Zionists swoop low to spread fear & paranoia

[058]

OK, just for the sake of arguement lets agree that there is Global Warming. How does anyone know IF its man-made or a natural occurance? And If its man-made how does any pro global warming person account for the warming of Mars, that is warming at about the same rate the earth is? Could it be that the planets are warming because the Sun is getting hotter? What say you now, Algore?:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

OK, just for the sake of arguement lets agree that there is Global Warming. How does anyone know IF its man-made or a natural occurance? And If its man-made how does any pro global warming person account for the warming of Mars, that is warming at about the same rate the earth is? Could it be that the planets are warming because the Sun is getting hotter? What say you now, Algore?:idea:
A good point

[Sleeper CP]

Gore is no expert on the science of Climatology. Global Warming wackos or Wackos who state that Global Warming is a hoax and a scam. Take your pick. I am not as easily convinced as you are about many things, and this issue is one of them. Fact is the climate is warming. The question remains is man having any affect on this process. Kicking our addiction to foreign oil, is a good thing regardless.
Are you stating that being a TV weather man and starting a cable weather channel make Colman an expert of climate change?
Phuking idiot. If this was directed at me please let me know.
"The question remains is man having any affect on this process." It may not have been clear but that is Mr. Colemans point. The earth will go through it's cycles with or without human influence(sp). It has been doing so for millions of years. Far before the industrial revolution and the enternal combustion engine.
He also stated that since the earth receives 99% of its heat from the Sun he can't believe the global warming wacko's haven't given more thought to the sun's cycle's. He then stated that the answer is obvious : They can't regulate the sun. But they can regulate us.
For the record, Mr. Coleman know's that the earth has warmed 1.2 degree's average over the last 50 yrs. or so, but only .4 degree's is accounted for by human activity. (So the experts say) His point is the earth has been cooler and the earth has been warmer it is just a cycle and would happen with or without us(people).
"Are you stating that being a TV weather man and starting a cable weather channel make Colman an expert of climate change?" Interesting question:idea: Was Howard Cossell (sp) an expert on boxing ? How many experts are there on horse racing that weren't jockies? Was Smokey Ulich (sp) an engineer. Does he need a Phd in Climatetology to be an expert. Do you know how many "F"ing Phd's are Physiologist's and Thereipast (sp) that are truely phucked up people. And they tell other's how to raise children and how to get along in marriage.
As far as the "Phucking idiot" comment... not directed at you .. you are just a liberal.. I would ask you to consider the "Airplane on the Treadmil" question. On the face of it, with the conventional knowledge of a treadmill, something that makes you stay in place no matter how fast you run, I believed the answer to be "Hell no it won't fly" And then information that I hadn't considered was put infront of me. (IE. the propulsion system is not connected to the treadmill, there is only so much friction created by the tires and wheel bearings and the wheels will free-wheel on the axles).
Holy crap, the thing can fly and the wheel's will just roll at the speed of the plane plus the speed of the treadmill. Wow, I just learned something new, I guess I need to change my opinion. And I did.
Now apply the above to "Global Warming" or "Man made Global Warming" If the retraction of ice sheets in Greenland are uncovering tree trunks that no one has ever seen before, what does that tell you?:idea:
If the Roman's grew wine grapes in what is now Great Britian and grapes will not grow there today, does that tell you anything?:idea:
If the earth receives 99% of it's heat from the sun and the sun has had more surface activity over the last 5 years than every measured before could that tell you anything? :idea:
And lastly, if the same scientist that are today screaming global warming are in part the same crowd that 24 yrs ago were screaming global cooling " The next ICE Age is comming if we don't do something quicK" doesn' that make you stop and give pause to this? :idea:
It's about money and the control of your life (activities) your house, your car, boat, your job. Think about it please.
And the "phucking idiot" that made the comment about Bruce Crower, the man had asked me why "an engine with more compression makes more horsepower, there is no such thing as a free lunch and the engine should loose effeciancy through pumping losses having to compress the air/fuel mixture more" I started to say " Well my understanding of it from things I have read and from talking about engine efficencies(sp) with Bruce Crower is..."
In any case, I would ask you to think about what is to be gained and what is to be lost on the "Man made Global Warming scam" and who win's and who looses.
Just my .02 and then some ;)
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ULTRA26 # 1]

"The question remains is man having any affect on this process." It may not have been clear but that is Mr. Colemans point. The earth will go through it's cycles with or without human influence(sp). It has been doing so for millions of years. Far before the industrial revolution and the enternal combustion engine.
He also stated that since the earth receives 99% of its heat from the Sun he can't believe the global warming wacko's haven't given more thought to the sun's cycle's. He then stated that the answer is obvious : They can't regulate the sun. But they can regulate us.
For the record, Mr. Coleman know's that the earth has warmed 1.2 degree's average over the last 50 yrs. or so, but only .4 degree's is accounted for by human activity. (So the experts say) His point is the earth has been cooler and the earth has been warmer it is just a cycle and would happen with or without us(people).
"Are you stating that being a TV weather man and starting a cable weather channel make Colman an expert of climate change?" Interesting question:idea: Was Howard Cossell (sp) an expert on boxing ? How many experts are there on horse racing that weren't jockies? Was Smokey Ulich (sp) an engineer. Does he need a Phd in Climatetology to be an expert. Do you know how many "F"ing Phd's are Physiologist's and Thereipast (sp) that are truely phucked up people. And they tell other's how to raise children and how to get along in marriage.
As far as the "Phucking idiot" comment... not directed at you .. you are just a liberal.. I would ask you to consider the "Airplane on the Treadmil" question. On the face of it, with the conventional knowledge of a treadmill, something that makes you stay in place no matter how fast you run, I believed the answer to be "Hell no it won't fly" And then information that I hadn't considered was put infront of me. (IE. the propulsion system is not connected to the treadmill, there is only so much friction created by the tires and wheel bearings and the wheels will free-wheel on the axles).
Holy crap, the thing can fly and the wheel's will just roll at the speed of the plane pulls the speed of the treadmill. Wow, I just learned something new, I guess I need to change my opinion. And I did.
Now apply the above to "Global Warming" or "Man made Global Warming" If the retraction of ice sheets in Greenland are uncovering tree trunks that no one has ever seen before, what does that tell you?:idea:
If the Roman's grew wine grapes in what is now Great Britian and grapes will not grow there today, does that tell you anything?:idea:
If the earth receives 99% of it's heat from the sun and the sun has had more surface activity over the last 5 years than every measured before could that tell you anything? :idea:
And lastly, if the same scientist that are today screaming global warming are in part the same crowd that 24 yrs ago were screaming global cooling " The next ICE Age is comming if we don't do something quicK" doesn' that make you stop and give pause to this? :idea:
It's about money and the control of your life (activities) your house, your car, boat, your job. Think about it please.
And the "phucking idiot" that made the comment about Bruce Crower, the man had asked me why "an engine with more compression makes more horsepower, their is no such thing as a free lunch and the engine should loose effeciancy through pumping losses having to compress the air/fuel mixture more" I started to say " Well my understanding of it from things I have read and from talking about engine efficencies(sp) with Bruce Crower is..."
In any case, I would ask you to think about what is to be gained and what is to be lost on the "Man made Global Warming scam" and who win's and who looses.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Crower from Crower cams? Scp, this case is not as clear as the airplane/treadmill issue. When it becomes as clear, I will make up my mind,. I am on the fence on this issue as I have been for quite a while. Not sure that makes me a a Liberal, or anything else, for that matter. I do have some views that are somewhat liberal, and I have some views that are somehwhat conservative.
I do thank you for continuing to express you opinions and discuss issues like the mature adult that you are. As was agreed with AZM, if we connected on the water, I'm sure we would get along just fine. Seems we have more in
common than not. I have been a gear head, since I was child. I love fast cars, fast boats and HP. This will never change. There is an older guy up the street, who helped me with my Warlock, named Amos Satterly. Amos used to build some serious HP blower motors for drag boats. I learned some stuff from Amos. Not sure what made me think of Amos???
As someone else said to me, if I ever saw you broken down, I would be right there with a rope and a cold one, rest assured.

[Sleeper CP]

Crower from Crower cams?
.
Yes that Crower, I grew up knowing three of his children. I told the dipstick that said "just because his name is on a company doesn't mean he know's how to make horsepower" , that saying that is as lame as saying " Chuck Yeager isn't an engineer so what does he know about flying".
I then rolled off a bunch of Bruce's accomplishments including the fact that he was the first person to "top mount " a GMC blower on an engine and that when GM designed the 396 big block it wouldn't live on the dyno under durability test's the engineers from GM(including Zora Duntov) called Bruce to ask him what his thoughts were. He had the answer for them 2 minutes after seeing the broken parts.
My point is, just because Mr. Coleman doesn't have a PHD in Climateology doesn't mean you or anyone else should discount his lifes work. He has studied weather for 30 plus yrs.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Steve 1]

http://www.junkscience.com/
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp
http://www.ecoenquirer.com/red-cheeked-squirrel.htm

[Blown 472]

OK, another rant about Israel, but how does this relate to algores bullshit about global warming?.....The agreement you quoted is not a hoax, or "the greatest scam in American history". No one has made movies/docudramas denouncing what you have said here. Hell, most of us didn't even know about the oil to Israel agreement, so how could it be a scam or hoax?.....If someone stood up and said we do not have this agreement, if someone made a movie saying we don't have this agreement, never have had, and never will, That would be a scam......I see this agreement as an amendment to our initial pledge to help Israel combat the evil forces in their region, forces that are dead set on killing all the non muslims in the world. Be they Christians or jews. Blown, truth be told, the biggest scam is making people believe that Israel actually needs our help. If WE gave them the green light, believe me, it would be over in a few days. The Israelies don't fight wars like we do, they go in, kick ass, and if necessary, stay to prevent the same armies from regrouping. We could learn a great deal about how to eliminate the terror threat against us from Israel. I say let them do what is necessary to bring peace to the middle east, once and for all.........But wait, we can't let them do that because of Arab oil that WE are so dependant on......Catch 22, they hold back, at our request, so we, in turn say look, if push comes to shove down the road we will back you up with OIL for your military machine.....If you dug deep enough you'll probably find a mirrored agreement from them to us in time of need.......No Blown, not a scam or a hoax, just something quietly worked out among allies in the war on terror and the much publicized Jihad against every man, woman, and child that is not muslim..........Remember Blown "The enemy of our enemy, is our friend"...........MP
You see the date?

[Boatcop]

The agreement between the US and Israel regarding oil came about through the Great :rolleyes: President Jimmy Carter and his mid-east Peace accord between Egypt and Israel. It was a carrot on a stick (incentive) for Israel to sign off on the Great :rolleyes: President Jimmy Carter's Middle East Treaty.
And we all have seen how well the Great :rolleyes: President Jimmy Carter's peace plan has worked.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Yes that Crower, I grew up knowing three of his children. I told the dipstick that said "just because his name is on a company doesn't mean he know's how to make horsepower" , that saying that is as lame as saying " Chuck Yeager isn't an engineer so what does he know about flying".
I then rolled off a bunch of Bruce's accomplishments including the fact that he was the first person to "top mount " a GMC blower on an engine and that when GM designed the 396 big block it wouldn't live on the dyno under durability test's the engineers from GM(including Zora Duntov) called Bruce to ask him what his thoughts were. He had the answer for them 2 minutes after seeing the broken parts.
My point is, just because Mr. Coleman doesn't have a PHD in Climateology doesn't mean you or anyone else should discount his lifes work. He has studied weather for 30 plus yrs.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Not discounting anything, I just don't see it as the gospel. The same would, and does, hold true from the opposing view.

[Old Texan]

Not sure that it means anything other than someone's opinion :D
Just curious how a TV Weatherman and founder of a cable weather channel qualifies as an expert in the field of Climatology?
Is this another reliebale piece from The Blogosphere? :) :)
Here's what you do. Go to Vegas with Al Gore and play Roulette, Craps, or whatever game Al claims to know. Then you bet your life savings according to Al's selections. When you come home deadasse broke maybe you will realize Al Gore is a pompous idiot.
If my choice is a man that has dedicated the majority of his life to weather and has made a very good living and has the credibility among "experts" Coleman does, I'll damn sure take his opinion with far more trust than an idiot who would sell his soul for the Presidency or any attention he could possibly muster.
Argue what you will or as you may, but when you use folks such as Gore and Joe Wilson as your "experts", you run a very precarious race.

[Sleeper CP]

Argue what you will or as you may, but when you use folks such as Gore and Joe Wilson as your "experts", you run a very precarious race.
Well, that about puts this debate into prespective:D
Thanks Texan, :)
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[AzMandella]

OK, just for the sake of arguement lets agree that there is Global Warming. How does anyone know IF its man-made or a natural occurance? And If its man-made how does any pro global warming person account for the warming of Mars, that is warming at about the same rate the earth is? Could it be that the planets are warming because the Sun is getting hotter? What say you now, Algore?:idea:
The other day I was watching a show on global warming that was showing astronomers that had an orbital model. the earthis on an eliptical orbit around the sun.No planet does. Picture if you can an eliptical rubberband but it is stiff but plyable.It holds it shape. Now grab each end of the longest diameter with your fingers.Now if pull on the rubberband a little. The ends pull farther apart and the sides move a little closer..let go and the ends move closer and the sides move farhter away.If you do this you see how the orbit of earth changes it orbit back and forth throughout it's cycle. And they have proven that it's cycle is roughly every 100 yrs. so every 50 ish yrs we go from one extreme to the other.And theres no way we can stop it. And right now we are at our cloest to the sun And yes Mars is going through the same warming patern. But then alot of the meteoroligist say the measured output of the sun hasn't changed. And the way it's measured that's true. Take a propane torch and light it. Set the flame to a constant output no wold your hand above it about 5 ft. Nowove your hand 6" closer. Feel the heat change? The output of the torch didn't change but it got warmer. Astronomers have known this for years. But the eco-freaks just don't listen. So yes there is global warming and man has a very small impact on it. I have been an amatuer Astronomer for many years and know a few scientist at the U of A and they say the same thing. I have seen Algore's movie 1-1/2 times. couldn't stand it the second time. The senario he dipicts is actually very plausible. During the warm period the poles mely a little and the cool periods show patterns of cooling and wet periods. But to put the whole world in an alarmists attitude to it. While taking it to the bank. Remember Al Gore was a medeocre student but an excelent "politician". Now everything the astronamers are saying is based on phsics. A very real and reliable proof.

[Moneypitt]

You see the date?
Yeah, 1975..........Where were you in 1967? I know exactly where I was, what I was doing, and why I was doing it.........Blown, do you think all this started on 9/11?.........
This muslim crap has been going on for centuries, even amongst themselves. I did notice that this terrible agreement you speak of gives Israel the OPTION to BUY oil from the US strategic reserves, nothing about GIVING them anything.....As usual Blown, anything that involves the jews makes you blind with rage, not sure why, don't care why. Even if you found something legit to bitch about, no one here would listen, you have cried wolf several times too often already to be taken seriously.........MP

[058]

The other day I was watching a show on global warming that was showing astronomers that had an orbital model. the earthis on an eliptical orbit around the sun.No planet does. Picture if you can an eliptical rubberband but it is stiff but plyable.It holds it shape. Now grab each end of the longest diameter with your fingers.Now if pull on the rubberband a little. The ends pull farther apart and the sides move a little closer..let go and the ends move closer and the sides move farhter away.If you do this you see how the orbit of earth changes it orbit back and forth throughout it's cycle. And they have proven that it's cycle is roughly every 100 yrs. so every 50 ish yrs we go from one extreme to the other.And theres no way we can stop it. And right now we are at our cloest to the sun And yes Mars is going through the same warming patern. But then alot of the meteoroligist say the measured output of the sun hasn't changed. And the way it's measured that's true. Take a propane torch and light it. Set the flame to a constant output no wold your hand above it about 5 ft. Nowove your hand 6" closer. Feel the heat change? The output of the torch didn't change but it got warmer. Astronomers have known this for years. But the eco-freaks just don't listen. So yes there is global warming and man has a very small impact on it. I have been an amatuer Astronomer for many years and know a few scientist at the U of A and they say the same thing. I have seen Algore's movie 1-1/2 times. couldn't stand it the second time. The senario he dipicts is actually very plausible. During the warm period the poles mely a little and the cool periods show patterns of cooling and wet periods. But to put the whole world in an alarmists attitude to it. While taking it to the bank. Remember Al Gore was a medeocre student but an excelent "politician". Now everything the astronamers are saying is based on phsics. A very real and reliable proof.Don't use 50 cents words while talking to a liberal. The use of "eliptical" will do nothing but confuse them. :D I gotta hand it to Algore as he has sold the liberals on the idea of buying and selling "Carbon Credits" pure genius, pay money to ease your conscious. Gonna trade credits on the Mercantile Exchange just as they do with pollution credits, another racket to promote the re-distribution of wealth. But then again liberals that follow Algore are not the brightest lights in the harbor. Guess you can sell them on anything, Barnum was right.:D

[Blown 472]

Yeah, 1975..........Where were you in 1967? I know exactly where I was, what I was doing, and why I was doing it.........Blown, do you think all this started on 9/11?.........
This muslim crap has been going on for centuries, even amongst themselves. I did notice that this terrible agreement you speak of gives Israel the OPTION to BUY oil from the US strategic reserves, nothing about GIVING them anything.....As usual Blown, anything that involves the jews makes you blind with rage, not sure why, don't care why. Even if you found something legit to bitch about, no one here would listen, you have cried wolf several times too often already to be taken seriously.........MP
Lemme see, do I care?? na.:idea:

[Moneypitt]

Lemme see, do I care?? na.:idea:
So now you don't care? You hijacked a thread about the scam of global warming, throw some hype around about oil agreements, your hype is discounted, totally, you ask about a date, know nothing about your own hoax/scam ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! And now, after the scam/hoax YOU started is shown to be crap, you no longer care......My head hurts........MP

[AzMandella]

Don't use 50 cents words while talking to a liberal. The use of "eliptical" will do nothing but confuse them. :D I gotta hand it to Algore as he has sold the liberals on the idea of buying and selling "Carbon Credits" pure genius, pay money to ease your conscious. Gonna trade credits on the Mercantile Exchange just as they do with pollution credits, another racket to promote the re-distribution of wealth. But then again liberals that follow Algore are not the brightest lights in the harbor. Guess you can sell them on anything, Barnum was right.:D
You know it's funny but the if the earth did not orbit the way it doe's it would theoretically be thown out into space. it's sort of a sling shot theory.We race by the sun and once we start to get away from it we slow and turn only to be pulled back to race by it again and so on and so on. But if it traveled a perfect circular orbit it would slowly pull away from the sun. Not to mention no seasons,which is also affected by the angle of tilt from one end of it's orbit to the other. You know there is one thing that no one can stop is the fact that this planet will burn up eventually. Our sun,which is nothing more than a star,will evenyually burn up any way. All stars burn hotter as they exhaust ther fuel. All stars continue to burn brighter and hotter until they go supernova.A stars death. They burn hotter and hotter till it blows it's outer shell of an becomes a red giant . Then burns till there's nothing left and implodes. It's funny but if you put this theory to the test using the last 75 yrs of recording you get the mid 70' global cooling scare.In the early 60's scientists notice a small cooling trend.By the mid 70's the government was giving grant's in the millions to study the efect of our CO2 production on the atmosphere. All the sudden we have a global colling scare spearheaded by none other than the left wing. As history knows nothing materialized. funniy thing though. If figure the timeline from the time they started to notice a cooling trend till now it's almost 50yrs. Right in the timeline of cold to hot and drought to drought and cold to cold every 100 yrs give or take. Not to mention tree rings show the same thing with droughts to droughts,and wet to wet periods 100 yrs apart. And 50yrs from each other.

[Poster X]

It's very simple. If we heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, the worst that can happen is we foster some energy resources other than fossil fuels a little ahead of schedule. We learn to practice recycling which is an economic boost anyway. We achieve new levels of science and cleaner to operate industrialization which is good for everyone regardless of global warming.
If we DO NOT heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, we esentially destroy the only planet we have and strip our kids of any future we want for them and will probably piss off God.
The cost is negligable and most of the technology that comes from eco friendly ventures is American - and I support the next American technological boom, which seems to be alternate ecofriendly technologies. Whether you noticed it or not, our dollar is in the crapper and we're outsourcing everything but porn. While you idiots are arguing over who has the biggest dick almost everything that is right about America is being legislated out of existence. Let's lead at something besides bragging about the past or stalemating over resources.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

It's very simple. If we heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, the worst that can happen is we foster some energy resources other than fossil fuels a little ahead of schedule. We learn to practice recycling which is an economic boost anyway. We achieve new levels of science and cleaner to operate industrialization which is good for everyone regardless of global warming.
If we DO NOT heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, we esentially destroy the only planet we have and strip our kids of any future we want for them and will probably piss off God.
The cost is negligable and most of the technology that comes from eco friendly ventures is American - and I support the next American technological boom, which seems to be alternate ecofriendly technologies. Whether you noticed it or not, our dollar is in the crapper and we're outsourcing everything but porn. While you idiots are arguing over who has the biggest dick almost everything that is right about America is being legislated out of existence. Let's lead at something besides bragging about the past or stalemating over resources.
Welcome back Poster.
Err on the side of caution, as I have stated over and over again

[Moneypitt]

It's very simple. If we heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, the worst that can happen is we foster some energy resources other than fossil fuels a little ahead of schedule. We learn to practice recycling which is an economic boost anyway. We achieve new levels of science and cleaner to operate industrialization which is good for everyone regardless of global warming.
If we DO NOT heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, we esentially destroy the only planet we have and strip our kids of any future we want for them and will probably piss off God.
The cost is negligable and most of the technology that comes from eco friendly ventures is American - and I support the next American technological boom, which seems to be alternate ecofriendly technologies. Whether you noticed it or not, our dollar is in the crapper and we're outsourcing everything but porn. While you idiots are arguing over who has the biggest dick almost everything that is right about America is being legislated out of existence. Let's lead at something besides bragging about the past or stalemating over resources.
So we drive our manufacturing base offshore with un necesary bullshit laws, and this somehow is good for our country?....I can't see how. Sure if we develope cleaner industry it is a step in the right direction, but at what cost to our economy in the mean time?..Anything associated with algores bullshit is, well, bullshit regardless of how you look at it......MP

[ULTRA26 # 1]

So we drive our manufacturing base offshore with un necesary bullshit laws, and this somehow is good for our country?....I can't see how. Sure if we develope cleaner industry it is a step in the right direction, but at what cost to our economy in the mean time?..Anything associated with algores bullshit is, well, bullshit regardless of how you look at it......MP
Ray, we drove more offshore than we should have long before GW was even an issue. Go into any major retail store that you would like and find any product made in the USA. Good luck. China and Mexico seem to rule.

[Sleeper CP]

It's very simple. If we heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, the worst that can happen is we foster some energy resources other than fossil fuels a little ahead of schedule. We learn to practice recycling which is an economic boost anyway. We achieve new levels of science and cleaner to operate industrialization which is good for everyone regardless of global warming.
If we DO NOT heed the warnings of global warming and are wrong, we esentially destroy the only planet we have and strip our kids of any future we want for them and will probably piss off God.
The cost is negligable and most of the technology that comes from eco friendly ventures is American - and I support the next American technological boom, which seems to be alternate ecofriendly technologies. Whether you noticed it or not, our dollar is in the crapper and we're outsourcing everything but porn. While you idiots are arguing over who has the biggest dick almost everything that is right about America is being legislated out of existence. Let's lead at something besides bragging about the past or stalemating over resources.
Not that I recall:confused: And BTW Asian porn is not half bad.;) And who is legistating, we can't drill in Alaska, we won't drill off our coast's, we won't build Nuclear plant's (last one was built 25+ yrs ago) , we haven't built a new oil/gas refinery in the US in 22 yrs( it's either 22 or 27) and the Clinton administraition put millions of tons of shell oil off limit's for a few political contributions from his friends.
You know we are screwed up aren't we. And Oh, people like the Kennedy's don't want wind power put within eye sight of their vacation homes. :idea:
Something needs to change here:mad:
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Poster X]

We need to get off fossil fuel anyway - it will eventually run out or become so expensive only czars can use it. Forget all the old bullshit and move forward. We haven't built refineries because people don't want them in their cities. We haven't built nuclear power plants because people don't want them in their cities. Neither were Presidential policies. Shell oil would only add 2% to our reserves and would cost a trillion to renew. An administration that has liberally spent more money and created more debt than any other administration in history (nor it's supporters) can't really talk about economy or debt. You're lucky if we don't deport you to Mexico and keep the Mexicans. At this point it's best you shut up and nod your head a lot.

[Old Texan]

We need to get off fossil fuel anyway - it will eventually run out or become so expensive only czars can use it. Forget all the old bullshit and move forward. We haven't built refineries because people don't want them in their cities. We haven't built nuclear power plants because people don't want them in their cities. Neither were Presidential policies. Shell oil would only add 2% to our reserves and would cost a trillion to renew. An administration that has liberally spent more money and created more debt than any other administration in history (nor it's supporters) can't really talk about economy or debt. You're lucky if we don't deport you to Mexico and keep the Mexicans. At this point it's best you shut up and nod your head a lot.
Apparently the hot air relief valve in your headcovering needs expunged again so here ya are, blowing more hot air with little content. Lecturing is a wonderful thing if you have a better plan, but per ususal you just drop by to throw out idiotic insults and statemnets with no depth.
Tell us what altenative sources you have in mind that would have an immediate effect "Oh Wiseasse One"?????? Or should we all just sit down and do nothing until some "Genius" drops down from the heavens with Dilithium Crystals or a Perpetual Energy Machine.
Technology is advanicng rapidly but not rapidly enough to stop the whining blowhards pushing bad legislation.

[Poster X]

How are you going to be my latex salesman if you can't even keep up with a thread?
The solution is simple, we invest in alternate energy resources and develop them. When you're done throwing away over a billion a day we could probably do it with just the interest that money would have earned. I did not vote for Bush so I guess I am a little better than you who did. However, you can redeem yourself by being less an idiot in the future. Help your kids out, buy into the future, not the "today."

[Old Texan]

How are you going to be my latex salesman if you can't even keep up with a thread?
The solution is simple, we invest in alternate energy resources and develop them. When you're done throwing away over a billion a day we could probably do it with just the interest that money would have earned. I did not vote for Bush so I guess I am a little better than you who did. However, you can redeem yourself by being less an idiot in the future. Help your kids out, buy into the future, not the "today."
And these "Alternate Energy Sources" are??????
So what are you doing, feeding steroids to squirrels so they can spin bigger wheels?
Once again hollow banter.

[Poster X]

And these "Alternate Energy Sources" are??????
So what are you doing, feeding steroids to squirrels so they can spin bigger wheels?
Once again hollow banter.
You've never heard of battery power, solar power, nuclear power, wind power, hydroelectric power, biodiesel, gasification, geothermal energy, photovoltaics, steam, tidal energy, ethanol, or pedal power (which you deserve)?

[Moneypitt]

There is an older guy up the street, who helped me with my Warlock, named Amos Satterly. Amos used to build some serious HP blower motors for drag boats. I learned some stuff from Amos. Not sure what made me think of Amos???
Famous Amos......Damn, have not heard that name for a couple of decades. Just for the record here, IMO, he ranks right up there with Keith Black, Ed Pink, Austin Coil,(sp) Lee Beard, Dale Armstrong, Alan Johnson, and a host of other very sucessful pioneers of high performance motorsports.....A list of things he hasn't done would be alot easier to compile than a list of things he has.........Takes me back to Saturday nights at "the Beach", fogged in and fuelers doing things that seemed to be impossible.......MP

[Sleeper CP]

We need to get off fossil fuel anyway - it will eventually run out or become so expensive only czars can use it. Forget all the old bullshit and move forward. We haven't built refineries because people don't want them in their cities. We haven't built nuclear power plants because people don't want them in their cities. Neither were Presidential policies. Shell oil would only add 2% to our reserves and would cost a trillion to renew. An administration that has liberally spent more money and created more debt than any other administration in history (nor it's supporters) can't really talk about economy or debt. You're lucky if we don't deport you to Mexico and keep the Mexicans. At this point it's best you shut up and nod your head a lot.
We need to get off fossil fuel anyway
Are you still under the impression that crude oil comes from dinosaurs and plant life? Do some research on Dr. Thomas Gold (Cornell University) and Dr. J.F. Kenny (Gas Resources Corporations). A short cut might be an article from WorldNetDaily. Edit: Dr. Gold's book is "The Deep Hot Biosphere"
I'll give you one quote " competent physicists,chemists,chemical engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have know that natural petroleum does not evolve from biological materials since the last quarter of the 19th century"
We haven't built refineries because people don't want them in their cities. We haven't built nuclear power plants because people don't want them in their cities
So do you have an alternative or do you just bitch and moan? I find it interesting that people like algore can't find it in themselves to support Nuclear power when it is one of the cleanest powers available?
Some years back in San Diego County in San Marcos there was a planned Trash to Energy plant. What a good use for trash burn it and make energy. But holy crap did the lefty wackos come out of the woodwork.
I'm not a big fan of the French, but 80% of their domestic energy comes from their Nuclear power plants. I think that is a good thing. We should be so smart.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[sangervdrive]

We need to get off fossil fuel anyway
Are you still under the impression that crude oil comes from dinosaurs and plant life? Do some research on Dr. Thomas Gold (Cornell University) and Dr. J.F. Kenny (Gas Resources Corporations). A short cut might be an article from WorldNetDaily.
I'll give you one quote " competent physicists,chemists,chemical engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have know that natural petroleum does not evolve from biological materials since the last quarter of the 19th century"
We haven't built refineries because people don't want them in their cities. We haven't built nuclear power plants because people don't want them in their cities
So do you have an alternative or do you just bitch and moan? I find it interesting that people like algore can't find it in themselves to support Nuclear power when it is one of the cleanest powers available?
Some years back in San Diego County in San Marcos there was a planned Trash to Energy plant. What a good use for trash burn it and make energy. But holy crap did the lefty wackos come out of the woodwork.
I'm not a big fan of the French, but 80% of their domestic energy comes from their Nuclear power plants. I think that is a good thing. We should be so smart.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
I live in Ames, Iowa and we have a trash to energy type plant. Go figure there is no landfill here yet we have electricity.
How is that not a good idea???

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Famous Amos......Damn, have not heard that name for a couple of decades. Just for the record here, IMO, he ranks right up there with Keith Black, Ed Pink, Austin Coil,(sp) Lee Beard, Dale Armstrong, Alan Johnson, and a host of other very sucessful pioneers of high performance motorsports.....A list of things he hasn't done would be alot easier to compile than a list of things he has.........Takes me back to Saturday nights at "the Beach", fogged in and fuelers doing things that seemed to be impossible.......MP
Ray, the last time I was at the shop was about two years ago. As I reacll his Son was doing most of the work, but Amos was still kicking. He's got to be getting close to eighty. What a great guy and amazing engine builder. As a favor to a mutual friend at a Chevy dealer Amos assembled a 502/502 and set it in my Warlock, back in Jan 99.
I live in Ames, Iowa and we have a trash to energy type plant. Go figure there is no landfill here yet we have electricity.
How is that not a good idea???
Shit, I am known as the class lefty, and this seems to be a great way of producing energy. Imagine that :D

[Poster X]

I'm pro nuclear power. Hell, I'm pro burning the shit out gas while I can afford it. However, anti nuclear power has NOT been a presidential platform from either side. Lefty whackos do not have to come out of the woodwork to sideline nuclear power and petroleum processing plants. As soon as a bill comes up for one in your neighborhood, watch how fast everyone over the age of eighteen comes out of nowhere and votes against it. It's always a good idea, long as it doesn't affect you. Hence the curbing of progress on those two fronts.

[Old Texan]

You've never heard of battery power, solar power, nuclear power, wind power, hydroelectric power, biodiesel, gasification, geothermal energy, photovoltaics, steam, tidal energy, ethanol, or pedal power (which you deserve)?
And here I'd have thought you had something original. I should have known.:rolleyes:
And where haven't you heard, noticed, tried to attain coherent awareness of, or whatever that your list seems to be the heavy focus of scientists worldwide???????????
Just back to beat you gums per usual........

[ULTRA26 # 1]

And here I'd have thought you had something original. I should have known.:rolleyes:
And where haven't you heard, noticed, tried to attain coherent awareness of, or whatever that your list seems to be the heavy focus of scientists worldwide???????????
Just back to beat you gums per usual........
You buddy is wearing off of you.
:confused: :confused: :confused: Say what?
I would be willing to bet that Poster isn't involved in Carbon Offsets, and I can say neither am I. Imagine that.

[Poster X]

And here I'd have thought you had something original. I should have known.:rolleyes:
And where haven't you heard, noticed, tried to attain coherent awareness of, or whatever that your list seems to be the heavy focus of scientists worldwide???????????
Just back to beat you gums per usual........
Conversations with you are a bit of a circle jerk. If your wife asks you for sex do you respond "you don't know what the hell you want you crazy bitch, get back with me when you clear that pond you call a brain?" I answered your question. When you get through showing off for the rest of the brain trust get back with me and we'll discuss your journey back into the rational world. You'll only have to lie about voting for Bush for a decade or two. ;)

[Moneypitt]

Hey, how about a collective round of applause for all the treehugging greenies out there that want to keep us in the stone age of power production.......Saving us from ourselves once again.........Of course we have to give credit to the founding member of Greenpeace, algore..........MP

[Old Texan]

You buddy is wearing off of you.
:confused: :confused: :confused: Say what?
I would be willing to bet that Poster isn't involved in Carbon Offsets, and I can say neither am I. Imagine that.
Poster is actually John Kerry.
You're going to have to 'splain your first sentence there "Ricky". It didn't quite translate.:)

[Sleeper CP]

I live in Ames, Iowa and we have a trash to energy type plant. Go figure there is no landfill here yet we have electricity.
How is that not a good idea???
Get this. The Energy Plant was killed because the Clean Air wackos didn't like it. As an extra benefit of the plant they were going to have a small desalination water plant connected to it. San Diego County imports more that 90% of our water needs. If the desalination plant worked they could pump water from the Pacific Ocean and use it to create steam for the power plant and as a by product produce drinking water. But the enviro wackos killed it.:mad:
Sleeper CP

[Old Texan]

Conversations with you are a bit of a circle jerk. If your wife asks you for sex do you respond "you don't know what the hell you want you crazy bitch, get back with me when you clear that pond you call a brain?" I answered your question. When you get through showing off for the rest of the brain trust get back with me and we'll discuss your journey back into the rational world. You'll only have to lie about voting for Bush for a decade or two. ;)
At least since you've been away you kinda figured out Sex involves women. Too bad you you've become so attached to animals and inflatables you can't take advantage of this new found discovery.
Bush has no effect either way on the energy sector in the long run, just something for you to whine about. The problems have been growing since the industrial revolution started and idiots like yourself don't want to admit we are working constantly on new technologies and the R&D needs to be funded rather than taxed like your "Hopeful Candidates" suggest.
Now go lay back down in front of the trailer park and get back to being a speed bump. And don't you blame Bush cause it hurts everytime a redneck pickup runs over ya'......:devil:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

At least since you've been away you kinda figured out Sex involves women. Too bad you you've become so attached to animals and inflatables you can't take advantage of this new found discovery.
Bush has no effect either way on the energy sector in the long run, just something for you to whine about. The problems have been growing since the industrial revolution started and idiots like yourself don't want to admit we are working constantly on new technologies and the R&D needs to be funded rather than taxed like your "Hopeful Candidates" suggest.
Now go lay back down in front of the trailer park and get back to being a speed bump. And don't you blame Bush cause it hurts everytime a redneck pickup runs over ya'......:devil:
So it's back to king of the insults. Act my age would ya. :D :D

[bigq]

Nuclear power plants and hydrogen cars should be the way to go. The public has a lack of knowledge on how safe a "new" nuclear plant is and I would vote to put one in my town no problem. From what i understand we even utilize the waste now and no emissions.
As bag face said there is tons of money to be made here, it's always about the money.
Whether or not we will run out of oil is really irrelevant at this point. Look at who controls it and the price. Do we in the USA really want this. I have maybe God willing another 50 years on this planet, but my daughters another 90 or so and I want not only the planet here, but the red, white and blue also..flourishing.

[Poster X]

At least since you've been away you kinda figured out Sex involves women. Too bad you you've become so attached to animals and inflatables you can't take advantage of this new found discovery.
Bush has no effect either way on the energy sector in the long run, just something for you to whine about. The problems have been growing since the industrial revolution started and idiots like yourself don't want to admit we are working constantly on new technologies and the R&D needs to be funded rather than taxed like your "Hopeful Candidates" suggest.
Now go lay back down in front of the trailer park and get back to being a speed bump. And don't you blame Bush cause it hurts everytime a redneck pickup runs over ya'......:devil:
I never said tax. Neither did any candidates. There's plenty of money that can be directed towards alternate energy sources. Kinda funny how you have no problem spending 35 billion dollars a month on a non renewable war, and you don't mind borrowing more money than any nation on earth, you don't mind giving away our resources such as the stock market and american ports, you don't mind a blind eye to illegal immigration but yet, this pesky energy thing for the future gets under your skin?

[Old Texan]

I never said tax. Neither did any candidates. There's plenty of money that can be directed towards alternate energy sources. Kinda funny how you have no problem spending 35 billion dollars a month on a non renewable war, and you don't mind borrowing more money than any nation on earth, you don't mind giving away our resources such as the stock market and american ports, you don't mind a blind eye to illegal immigration but yet, this pesky energy thing for the future gets under your skin?
Your fat legged fraulein candidate wants to tax hell out of oil company profits. She wants "her" government to take the money for research. Oh yeah I forgot, you don't favor private sector research in the socialist Utopia.
Other than that point, the remaider of your rambling is typical low content spewing driven by your hatred of reality and those that actually run the world.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Nuclear power plants and hydrogen cars should be the way to go. The public has a lack of knowledge on how safe a "new" nuclear plant is and I would vote to put one in my town no problem. From what i understand we even utilize the waste now and no emissions.
As bag face said there is tons of money to be made here, it's always about the money.
Whether or not we will run out of oil is really irrelevant at this point. Look at who controls it and the price. Do we in the USA really want this. I have maybe God willing another 50 years on this planet, but my daughters another 90 or so and I want not only the planet here, but the red, white and blue also..flourishing.
Good post Bigg. I completely agree. If I have another 30 years I will have done well. But I have a 26 year old Son who is planning on child or two, and I too would like my Son and my grandchildren to enjoy the planet and the USA as I have.
Your fat legged fraulein candidate wants to tax hell out of oil company profits. She wants "her" government to take the money for research. Oh yeah I forgot, you don't favor private sector research in the socialist Utopia.
Other than that point, the remaider of your rambling is typical low content spewing driven by your hatred of reality and those that actually run the world.
What Tex, the Oil Companies aren't making enough profit? Do you expect the Oil Companies to invest in alternate energy? Do you expect Oil Companies to support better Eco cars? Do you expect the Oil Companies do do anything other than make as much profit as possible? Expecting Big Oil do anything other than the status quo, is similar to expecting GW Bush to be able to pronounce the word "Nuclear" It ain't gonna happen.
If you have it your way, nothing will change with regard to kicking our addiction to foreign oil, better fuel economy, less pollution, etc. etc. etc. BTW, my little Honda Civic SI, as you called it my Eco status symbol car, will smoke your big tank SUV across the railroad tracks, from 0-60, 1/4 mile and 60-0, and get me over 30 mpg on the highway, not to mention fill-ups, even at CA's $3.50 a gallon price for Premium, at under $40.00. :D :D :D

[Propster]

This graph was interesting. Historical levels of CO2 have been good for the planet. Plants seem to like more CO2. More plants add more fuel for animals. In fact, some of the ice ages had 4 times more CO2 than there is today. With todays doomsday predictions, shouldn't the planet have been burning up? The more likely suspects are sun activity, earth axis cycle variability and orbital distance cycles.
Source:www.geocraft.com
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image277.gif
Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya -- 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period ).
Temperature after C.R. Scotese http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm
CO2 after R.A. Berner, 2001 (GEOCARB III)
There has historically been much more CO2 in our atmosphere than exists today. For example:
During the Jurassic Period (200 mya), average CO2 concentrations were about 1800 ppm or about 4.7 times higher than today.
The highest concentrations of CO2 during all of the Paleozoic Era occurred during the Cambrian Period, nearly 7000 ppm -- about 18 times higher than today.
The Carboniferous Period and the Ordovician Period were the only geological periods during the Paleozoic Era when global temperatures were as low as they are today. To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today-- 4400 ppm.
According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today. Clearly, other factors besides atmospheric carbon influence earth temperatures and global warming.

[Poster X]

Your fat legged fraulein candidate wants to tax hell out of oil company profits. She wants "her" government to take the money for research. Oh yeah I forgot, you don't favor private sector research in the socialist Utopia.
Other than that point, the remaider of your rambling is typical low content spewing driven by your hatred of reality and those that actually run the world.
Texan, you ignorant slut. Exxon could fund global research with their catering bill. To hell with them paying a little extra tax for the good of us making them vastly wealthy. Maybe they can move their traiterous ass to Dubai with Halliburton? That'll be quite a flight for you to suck them off but, you'll live.

[Schiada76]

Texan, you ignorant slut. Exxon could fund global research with their catering bill. To hell with them paying a little extra tax for the good of us making them vastly wealthy. Maybe they can move their traiterous ass to Dubai with Halliburton? That'll be quite a flight for you to suck them off but, you'll live.
Dumb ass fcking communist.
Big evil oil makes a 10% profit, if they raise taxes on the oil companies the CONSUMER pays it, imbecile.
The tax burden on gasoline already far exceeds evil oils profits.
What other kind of logic can you expect from some left wing loon that believes in communism.

[Schiada76]

General info for the nitwit leftists.
Hydrogen fuel cells are a minimum of twenty years away for autos, my brother is in the business.
Solar, not affordable.
Wind, not affordable
Batteries? Where the hell do think the energy comes to charge them?:rolleyes:
Nuke, GREAT source of clean energy, not a tree hugging lib homo that will let that happen though.
New refinery? Great break out 20 billion to satisfy you eco freaks.
Drill ANWR? YES!
Drill offshore? YES

[Old Texan]

Texan, you ignorant slut. Exxon could fund global research with their catering bill. To hell with them paying a little extra tax for the good of us making them vastly wealthy. Maybe they can move their traiterous ass to Dubai with Halliburton? That'll be quite a flight for you to suck them off but, you'll live.
This is why we love to debate an elitist windbag. All his wonderful adventures back into the past where he dreamed he was on stage with the SNL crew. I remember the skit where you made your only appearance that didn't get thrown on the cutting room floor like your peasized brain did when the stork brought you out into the daylight. Belushie(sp) was the Hulk and you were the turd he left behind in the crushed toilet bowl.
Why will Big Oil spend money on R&D if their profits are "stolen"? This is going no where since we now will be back on the thieving oil companies and how they are putting it to us.
Tell us "Legend in Your Own Mind" who sets the prices?
Own any oil stock? If you don't, why? If you do quit bitchin', it's capitalism.

[Old Texan]

Good post Bigg. I completely agree. If I have another 30 years I will have done well. But I have a 26 year old Son who is planning on child or two, and I too would like my Son and my grandchildren to enjoy the planet and the USA as I have.
What Tex, the Oil Companies aren't making enough profit? Do you expect the Oil Companies to invest in alternate energy? Do you expect Oil Companies to support better Eco cars? Do you expect the Oil Companies do do anything other than make as much profit as possible? Expecting Big Oil do anything other than the status quo, is similar to expecting GW Bush to be able to pronounce the word "Nuclear" It ain't gonna happen.
If you have it your way, nothing will change with regard to kicking our addiction to foreign oil, better fuel economy, less pollution, etc. etc. etc. BTW, my little Honda Civic SI, as you called it my Eco status symbol car, will smoke your big tank SUV across the railroad tracks, from 0-60, 1/4 mile and 60-0, and get me over 30 mpg on the highway, not to mention fill-ups, even at CA's $3.50 a gallon price for Premium, at under $40.00. :D :D :D
The above highlighted is a false statement. The oil price debate is old and doesn't need to be rehashed. We've been there before. Y'all just keep dropping from your spiel the gains technology is making to change things for the better. Hybrid SUV's are here, and will continue to replace current gas guzzlers. And don't fall for the BS that Big Oil isn't trying to produce more efficentcy from the ground to the tank. It's happening everyday inspite of the bureaucracy that is your real enemy.
Exxon and Haliburton aren't the enemy in spite of what the Utopian Fool thinks.
Al Gore, Joe Wilson, Bill Clinton and now the "Bagheaded Boob". Real credible crew you run with.......:rolleyes: :devil:
Nothing wrong with a Civic SI, just not practical for what I need to do. Besides unlike you, I have no fears when crossing the rails.:D

[Steve 1]

General info for the nitwit leftists.
Hydrogen fuel cells are a minimum of twenty years away for autos, my brother is in the business.
Solar, not affordable.
Wind, not affordable
Batteries? Where the hell do think the energy comes to charge them?:rolleyes:
Nuke, GREAT source of clean energy, not a tree hugging lib homo that will let that happen though.
New refinery? Great break out 20 billion to satisfy you eco freaks.
Drill ANWR? YES!
Drill offshore? YES
Yes and the Trillion eight billion barrels of recoverable Oil in one Oil shale deposit only, we most likely have around 3+ trillion in various forms not mentioning Coal about 30% of the worlds total that can be made into fuel.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The above highlighted is a false statement. The oil price debate is old and doesn't need to be rehashed. We've been there before. Y'all just keep dropping from your spiel the gains technology is making to change things for the better. Hybrid SUV's are here, and will continue to replace current gas guzzlers. And don't fall for the BS that Big Oil isn't trying to produce more efficentcy from the ground to the tank. It's happening everyday inspite of the bureaucracy that is your real enemy.
Exxon and Haliburton aren't the enemy in spite of what the Utopian Fool thinks.
Al Gore, Joe Wilson, Bill Clinton and now the "Bagheaded Boob". Real credible crew you run with.......:rolleyes: :devil:
Nothing wrong with a Civic SI, just not practical for what I need to do. Besides unlike you, I have no fears when crossing the rails.:D
When did you read me praising Gore or Wilson.
I don't think any big business is the enemy. However, at least I am realistic with my expectations. Business is business.
More efficiency from the ground to the tank, benefits Oil. More efficiency from the tank to the wheels, is not.
I too support Nuclear power plants. More solar more wind, and less fossil is 20 years away only if that where it's placed on the to do list.

[Schiada76]

When did you read me praising Gore or Wilson.
I don't think any big business is the enemy. However, at least I am realistic with my expectations. Business is business.
More efficiency from the ground to the tank, benefits Oil. More efficiency from the tank to the wheels, is not.
I too support Nuclear power plants. More solar more wind, and less fossil is 20 years away only if that where it's placed on the to do list.
What part of capitalism don't you understand?
It's more than twenty years away according to the people in the business. What? Are you going to have cankle girl wave her wand and POOF it's all wonderful and profitable? Socialists are fools.:rolleyes:

[Old Texan]

When did you read me praising Gore or Wilson.
I don't think any big business is the enemy. However, at least I am realistic with my expectations. Business is business.
More efficiency from the ground to the tank, benefits Oil. More efficiency from the tank to the wheels, is not.
I too support Nuclear power plants. More solar more wind, and less fossil is 20 years away only if that where it's placed on the to do list.
Never said the word "Praise". More of an issue of using their statements, actions, et al to defend your position and covering their actions.
The efficiency of Big Oil to improve technolgies including the environmental issues concerning recovery, refining, and distribution damn well benefits you if you are as you claim concerned with the environment. Efficiency also reduces operating costs in accord with regulations of course. If you think many governmental decisions are just and quotas of various types they randomly throw in place help either the environment or the people's pocketbook, you are mistaken. Where do these Pols get the right information to pass good legislation? You seem to be quite a stickler for the view of "experts" to rule in decision making, but on this issue the "stickle is fickle".
Traditionally from what I see, hear, and read every day is a Liberal socialist leaning group of politicians that will do everything in their power to stifle big business with unfair legislation. From many of your recent statements of what's wrong in general and the consequences of jobs and business moving offshore coupled with unfair trade favoring China for example, I really am confused how you can support these poilticians.
As far as the second half of the statement, tank to wheels, I'm missing your meaning.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Never said the word "Praise". More of an issue of using their statements, actions, et al to defend your position and covering their actions.
The efficiency of Big Oil to improve technolgies including the environmental issues concerning recovery, refining, and distribution damn well benefits you if you are as you claim concerned with the environment. Efficiency also reduces operating costs in accord with regulations of course. If you think many governmental decisions are just and quotas of various types they randomly throw in place help either the environment or the people's pocketbook, you are mistaken. Where do these Pols get the right information to pass good legislation? You seem to be quite a stickler for the view of "experts" to rule in decision making, but on this issue the "stickle is fickle".
Traditionally from what I see, hear, and read every day is a Liberal socialist leaning group of politicians that will do everything in their power to stifle big business with unfair legislation. From many of your recent statements of what's wrong in general and the consequences of jobs and business moving offshore coupled with unfair trade favoring China for example, I really am confused how you can support these poilticians.
As far as the second half of the statement, tank to wheels, I'm missing your meaning.
Tex, there is no need to try to spin things with me. You should know better by now.
Regardless of all the efforts by Oil to be efficient, the price and profits levels remain egregious.
Seems to me that the profits for heating oil gasoline must be in line with public necessities such as electricity, water etc. Recent oil company profits have come at the expense of the American consumer, and are outrageously high. Of course you will say, this is how capitalism works. Supply and demand, etc, yada yada yada. I don't buy this with necessities
While this may be the case, the only way for the American people to avoid being bent over any further, is move away from oil related products. I am aware that this easier said than done, but it needs to be done.

[AzMandella]

You've never heard of battery power, solar power, nuclear power, wind power, hydroelectric power, biodiesel, gasification, geothermal energy, photovoltaics, steam, tidal energy, ethanol, or pedal power (which you deserve)?
Aside from nuclear the one you forgot and probably the best is Hydrogen Fusion. Solar and battery just cannot be replentished quick enough to be of much use for transportation.Funny how nobody commented on my post about the earths orbit. I guess since it is proven science and can easily be the cause of global warming we should just ignore it. I guess just like Gore and the other alarmists it makes too much sense so just ignore it and continue to cry the sky is fall all the while cashing in all the way to the bank.

[Moneypitt]

Aside from nuclear the one you forgot and probably the best is Hydrogen Fusion. Solar and battery just cannot be replentished quick enough to be of much use for transportation.Funny how nobody commented on my post about the earths orbit. I guess since it is proven science and can easily be the cause of global warming we should just ignore it. I guess just like Gore and the other alarmists it makes too much sense so just ignore it and continue to cry the sky is fall all the while cashing in all the way to the bank.
AzM, a very large percentage in this forum agree that global warming is a joke. Exactly what percentage, I can't tell you, but most......And most are aware of this cycle, warming, cooling, warming, cooling, etc etc. It is only a few algore fans that keep shouting the sky is falling. I, for one was aware of the earths orbital cycle, as well as the suns 11 year cycle of surface changes. To attempt to use 50 or 100 years of climate change as a guideline is like trying to say it rained here 5 years ago on Nov 12th, why didn't it rain here today?........Oh, global warming must be to blame....I say BS....And those that are screaming about this today will be screaming about a coming Ice Age in the near future...........I don't know which morons are worse, those that spout it, or those that swallow it............MP

[Schiada76]

Tex, there is no need to try to spin things with me. You should know better by now.
Regardless of all the efforts by Oil to be efficient, the price and profits levels remain egregious.
Seems to me that the profits for heating oil gasoline must be in line with public necessities such as electricity, water etc. Recent oil company profits have come at the expense of the American consumer, and are outrageously high. Of course you will say, this is how capitalism works. Supply and demand, etc, yada yada yada. I don't buy this with necessities
While this may be the case, the only way for the American people to avoid being bent over any further, is move away from oil related products. I am aware that this easier said than done, but it needs to be done.
Explain why 10% profit margin is "outrageously" high?
Why aren't all the taxes on gas "outrageously" high?
Why are gas prices "outrageously" high now but not under the catuh administration when they were higher?
When oill companies were going out of business left and right why weren't gas prices "outrageously" low?
Why is a legitimate business, charging a fair markup, providing goods and services to a spoiled public defined by liberals as "being bent over"?
Why can't liberals come up with solutions for "being bent over" other than having the government steal money from honest business and give it to them?
Because they are socialists that have no solutions, only whining.
Libs are scum

[Schiada76]

Aside from nuclear the one you forgot and probably the best is Hydrogen Fusion. Solar and battery just cannot be replentished quick enough to be of much use for transportation.Funny how nobody commented on my post about the earths orbit. I guess since it is proven science and can easily be the cause of global warming we should just ignore it. I guess just like Gore and the other alarmists it makes too much sense so just ignore it and continue to cry the sky is fall all the while cashing in all the way to the bank.
AZM this is simple.
For the liberals:
Summer=HOT
Winter=COLD
The end.:D

[Poster X]

Aside from nuclear the one you forgot and probably the best is Hydrogen Fusion. Solar and battery just cannot be replentished quick enough to be of much use for transportation.Funny how nobody commented on my post about the earths orbit. I guess since it is proven science and can easily be the cause of global warming we should just ignore it. I guess just like Gore and the other alarmists it makes too much sense so just ignore it and continue to cry the sky is fall all the while cashing in all the way to the bank.
As I said, better to go along with it and be wrong, than to not go along with it and be wrong.

[Moneypitt]

As I said, better to go along with it and be wrong, than to not go along with it and be wrong.
Wrong? What you just said is wrong. By allowing the sky is falling mentality to dictate our current industrial standards we are giving up far too much to other countries that don't give a shit. If you're really worried, maybe we should invade South American and STOP the mass removal of the rain forests. Plants are our lifesavers, converting Carbon dioxide to the stuff we breathe, OXYGEN...There is where the sky is truly falling, yet no one even mentions that. The earth was covered in Carbon Dioxide until the plants, which thrive on it, came into being and did the conversion for us........So, algore, besides selling your phony carbon offsets, do something about the rampant distruction of the forests...I saw a news deal about the floods and mudslides in Mexico. Guess what, the hills that slid into the village had been denuded of trees by THAT village.......Morons...........MP

[Boatcop]

Why do people blame the Oil companies for the price of gas? And their "obscene" profits?
Here is a breakdown on 1 gallon of gas on Nov 5th 2007 in California:
Retail prices $3.23
Crude Oil Cost $2.20 ($92.40/barrel)
Federal Excise Tax $0.18
State Excise Tax $0.18
State and Local Sales Tax $0.24
Refinery Cost and Profits $0.39
State Underground Storage Tank Fee $0.01
Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits $0.03
So out of $3.23 per gallon, the oil companies (If they own their own refineries) get 42 cents. And they have to pay marketing, distribution and refinery costs out of that. Keep in mind, that is for individual stations, too. So I would guess their net profit is about 1/3 of that or 21 cents. About 6.5%
Most businesses operate on about a 15% profit margin.
Oil companies do not set crude oil prices, and very few of them "own" their own oil fields. And the percentage of oil that comes from their own fileds are a very small percentage of the oil they produce. They have to pay for the oil from OPEC members, and when OPEC prices go up, their costs go up.
But their profit margin remains about the same.
By contrast taxes and fees take 61 cents. (19%)

[058]

Why do people blame the Oil companies for the price of gas? And their "obscene" profits?
Here is a breakdown on 1 gallon of gas on Nov 5th 2007 in California:
Retail prices $3.23
Crude Oil Cost $2.20 ($92.40/barrel)
Federal Excise Tax $0.18
State Excise Tax $0.18
State and Local Sales Tax $0.24
Refinery Cost and Profits $0.39
State Underground Storage Tank Fee $0.01
Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits $0.03
So out of $3.23 per gallon, the oil companies (If they own their own refineries) get 42 cents. And they have to pay marketing, distribution and refinery costs out of that. Keep in mind, that is for individual stations, too. So I would guess their net profit is about 1/3 of that or 21 cents. About 6.5%
Most businesses operate on about a 15% profit margin.
Oil companies do not set crude oil prices, and very few of them "own" their own oil fields. And the percentage of oil that comes from their own fileds are a very small percentage of the oil they produce. They have to pay for the oil from OPEC members, and when OPEC prices go up, their costs go up.
But their profit margin remains about the same.
By contrast taxes and fees take 61 cents. (19%)
Alan, Don't ruin a good liberal arguement with facts. You know they don't use facts when making their arguements, just feelings.:D

[centerhill condor]

Good to see the Poster back on the PRF.
So, I went and saw the dino Imax...wow great thing to watch Highly recommended.
The movie showed a bunch of paleonologists digging for fossils and bones...in the desert. Just so we're clear the animals lived in temperate areas with forests and all that stuff...now they're deserts...for the past millions of years and with no man made global warming.
Where was Al Gore? how did man kill the dinos when there weren't any man?
CC

[Schiada76]

Good to see the Poster back on the PRF.
So, I went and saw the dino Imax...wow great thing to watch Highly recommended.
The movie showed a bunch of paleonologists digging for fossils and bones...in the desert. Just so we're clear the animals lived in temperate areas with forests and all that stuff...now they're deserts...for the past millions of years and with no man made global warming.
Where was Al Gore? how did man kill the dinos when there weren't any man?
CC
Evil oil killed them, they used their time machine to go back to the Pleistocene and set up their asteroid attraction device so they could turn the dinosaurs into CRUDE OIL!!!!!!!!!
aaaarrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Theyr'e reading my mind right now!! Where's my ALCOA beanie!!!!!!!!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Oil Company Profits
The Investment U e-Letter: Issue # 653
March 23, 2007
Oil Company Profits: Just Who Is Gouging Whom?
by Alexander Green, Investment Director, The Oxford Club
And at first blush, many would agree. Over the past 12 months, for example,
ExxonMobil has made pre-tax profits of $164 billion on sales of $369.5 billion. That's a lot.
http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2007/20070323.html
$.42 a gallon seems like an obscene amount of profit when considering that gas used to cost less that this per gallon.
Here is another breakdown
Gasoline Retailer $.01 cents per gallon
Oil Company $.08 cents per gallon
Refining $.29 cents per gallon
Marketing/Distribution $.32 cents per gallon
Taxes $.59 cents per gallon
Cost of crude $1.71 per gallon (delivered)
The retailer $.01 a gallon The Company $.37 if it refines it's own.
Again, retailer $.01 Company $.37

[Flyinbowtie]

Heavens to Betsy, I had no idea my little post would generate this kind of response!:eek: :eek: :D
Well, here is another opinion to add to the plethora that have been expressed.
-I'd like to see the USA;
a) Put some of the whize kids we have in this country on the alternative fuels search, lord knows we supplement enough higher education at various Hallowed institutes that we could push for such research. Ultimately, it is sound to find a way to move to an energy source that doesn't pollute the environment.
b) In the interset of national security, start exploiting known reserves we control. ANWAR, the gulf of Mexico leases in our turf, etc. Allow the ususal folks to get in there and recover the crude.
Now, here comes the twist. That crude does not hit the open market. That crude is under price controls, and is only available in the U.S. at retail pumps. That crude has profit built into it for the compaines, I don't exepect them to do this fer free. Resasonable profit for the work, after all, it is our oil they want to go after.
I have no interest in allowing anymore drilling in new sources in U.S. turf that puts product onto the open market so that the Chinese can bid it up and take it. If the oil compaines don't want to do this, then perhaps we need to look at the possibility of gettting the government in there to do it. I don't like the idea of the government doing it, but we need the oil.
b(1)
Federal taxes and state sales taxes on fuel are stopped. Tha'tll bring the prices down more than anything. To make up the money, we outlaw earmarks at the federal level. We tax political candidates who want to us the TV. We cancel congressional retirement extras. They get no goodies, they get an IRA, they pay into social security. No lifetime B.S If we get term limits in or start voting the jerks out after two terms, they'll have plenty of time to put something together out in the private sector.
One formula for diesel and gas nationwide. Cooking all this shiznit for the different states with limited refining capacity s B.S.
c) We have almost reached a point where being an Eco-Socialist in this country is a dangerous thing. Once the audience wathcing American Idol wakes up and figures out that these people who have been trying for years to engineer this country into their Socialist Utopia, and one of the reasons fuel prices are where they are is because we have not added to the petro-infrastructure in decades due to them protesting and using the ESA to stop every single attempt at building refining capacity, and the American idol watchers see that Eco-Socialism= screwing the public, maybe they'll wake up.
The situation as it is, right now, is going to result in a massive rescession, and that will become apparent when the 1st quarter retail numbers for 2008 hit the airwaves and we find that Wal, K, and all the other marts have not sold the stuff.
d) No more natural gas fired, oil fired power plants to be built. Save the damn oil & petro stuff for other things, like the for fuel for the things that grow the food, harvest the food, and bring the food to the store. Heat houses with gas, etc. It is efficent at doing so. Build the Nucs, build the dams (hydro) build the geothermal, build the trash burner, etc. It isn't wise to use oil to fire a power plant. Enncourage the development of solar heat/electric technology. Even now it is much more efficient than most folks think. At 4-6 bucks a gallon for fuel, it'll be even more so.
I find myself tending to believing folks who have no horse in the race when it comes to this Global Warming deal. The earth has been heating and cooling for long before we got here. It will continue to do so. Whether we are having any impact on it, (as a species) is a long way from being "fact"., Mr. Gore's movie not withstanding and whether he invented the internet or not, the man is a buffon; raised in a hotel and believing his own propaganda isn't healthy, Al.
We are dealing with a well organized and well-funded group of people who have been pushing the citizens of this country around for about 4 decades. They have brought us to where we are, and our obsession working for a living, raising our families and assuming our elected officials will represent us with honor and honesty has failed.
Start showing up at the poles. Vote the self-serving pricks out. If they ignore the demands of the people who elect them, if they fail to act in the best interest of the country, throw them out. Do so every couple of years and we will make the change.
Wake up, people.
We've had it so good in this country for so long that we have people making a damn fine living stopping a road going through because of riparian field mouse habitat.
We pay them thousands of dollars to find a route around the habitat that they approve of. So we can build a road, to drive on to go to work.
We've had it so good for so long in this country that we have reached a place where we think that being nice and talking to people who want nothing more than to kill us, our children, and our childrens children will make them like us.
We've had it so good for so long we think it will go on forever.
Go ask somebody who lived through the depression what that was like.
Go ask somebody who lived through World War II what that was like.
Go ask somebody who lived through the doldrums of the Carter Admin. what that was like, when the rate on a 30 year loan was 19%.
The great silent majority of America needs to rise up.We need to shut down the poison that is Political Correctness, and take the country back from the Self-Chosen Self Blessed Self Right-Righteous Few who have been quietly controlling every step this country takes for too damn long, writing bullshit laws that line their own pockets all under the guise of saving the planet, fixing the satan that is the U.S., etc, and making more American Idol obsessed Americans dependant on the Federal Government, which consolidates their political power, and ensures their political lives.
While all the while China rises, and now has us by the scrotum, and open a new power plant every other day.
While Russia sits on vast reserves of crude, and arms Iran with Nuclear technology.
While a pissant dictator steps onto our shore, into the U.N., and calls our president the great satan, and offers oil vouchers to ou cities.
And look at the quality of people we have running for president.:rolleyes:
But hey this is just my opinion, throwing out a few thoughts, some possibilites and food for thought. I'm sure lots of folks think I am wrong.
I might be about some of the little details.
But I sure as hell am not wrong about the big picture. No amount of double talk or Al Gore movies or Nobel Przes or hillary trying to shove more B.S. at me while all the time trying to control my life is going to convince me otherwise.
Good Day.:D

[Steve 1]

This graph was interesting. Historical levels of CO2 have been good for the planet. Plants seem to like more CO2. More plants add more fuel for animals. In fact, some of the ice ages had 4 times more CO2 than there is today. With todays doomsday predictions, shouldn't the planet have been burning up? The more likely suspects are sun activity, earth axis cycle variability and orbital distance cycles.
Source:www.geocraft.com
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image277.gif
Dave the Lefties do not and will not get the connection between CO2 and Biomass! It has to do with the 60s mentality instilled in their pointed traitor heads.

[Boatcop]

Oil Company Profits
The Investment U e-Letter: Issue # 653
March 23, 2007
Oil Company Profits: Just Who Is Gouging Whom?
by Alexander Green, Investment Director, The Oxford Club
And at first blush, many would agree. Over the past 12 months, for example,
ExxonMobil has made pre-tax profits of $164 billion on sales of $369.5 billion. That's a lot.
http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2007/20070323.html
$.42 a gallon seems like an obscene amount of profit when considering that gas used to cost less that this per gallon.
Here is another breakdown
Gasoline Retailer $.01 cents per gallon
Oil Company $.08 cents per gallon
Refining $.29 cents per gallon
Marketing/Distribution $.32 cents per gallon
Taxes $.59 cents per gallon
Cost of crude $1.71 per gallon (delivered)
The retailer $.01 a gallon The Company $.37 if it refines it's own.
Again, retailer $.01 Company $.37
How can you call that 42 cents or 37 cents "profit" when their costs come out of it? Their gross take is a hell of a lot different than net take. Realize that operating, insurance, exploration, R & D, maintenance, etc. is all taken out of that 37-42 cents.
Why do liberals feel that ANY profit for business is obscene?
Heinz company (John Kerry's wife) profits were 205.3 million lfirst quarter 2007.
US-based Heinz, a manufacturer and marketer of processed food products, has reported 5.8% gain in profits for the first quarter of 2007.
The company's profits increased to $205.3 million, or $0.63 a share, in the first quarter compared with $194.1 million, or $0.58 a share, for the same period last year. The company also reported an increase in its sales by 9.1% to $2.25 billion.
Art Winkleblack, CFO of Heinz said that the company expects a further increase of 5.5% in commodity costs and so Heinz may increase the prices of its products.
Why isn't anyone screaming about the obscene profits of Big Catsup?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

How can you call that 42 cents or 37 cents "profit" when their costs come out of it? Their gross take is a hell of a lot different than net take. Realize that operating, insurance, exploration, R & D, maintenance, etc. is all taken out of that 37-42 cents.
Why do liberals feel that ANY profit for business is obscene?
Heinz company (John Kerry's wife) profits were 205.3 million lfirst quarter 2007.
Why isn't anyone screaming about the obscene profits of Big Catsup?
The retailer $.01 a gallon The Company $.37 if it refines it's own.
Again, retailer $.01 Company $.37
Doesn't this seem a little off?
Alan,
Read the link in my previous post

[Moneypitt]

Heavens to Betsy, I had no idea my little post would generate this kind of response!:eek: :eek: :D
Well, here is another opinion to add to the plethora that have been expressed.
-I'd like to see the USA;
a) Put some of the whize kids we have in this country on the alternative fuels search, lord knows we supplement enough higher education at various Hallowed institutes that we could push for such research. Ultimately, it is sound to find a way to move to an energy source that doesn't pollute the environment.
b) In the interset of national security, start exploiting known reserves we control. ANWAR, the gulf of Mexico leases in our turf, etc. Allow the ususal folks to get in there and recover the crude.
Now, here comes the twist. That crude does not hit the open market. That crude is under price controls, and is only available in the U.S. at retail pumps. That crude has profit built into it for the compaines, I don't exepect them to do this fer free. Resasonable profit for the work, after all, it is our oil they want to go after.
I have no interest in allowing anymore drilling in new sources in U.S. turf that puts product onto the open market so that the Chinese can bid it up and take it. If the oil compaines don't want to do this, then perhaps we need to look at the possibility of gettting the government in there to do it. I don't like the idea of the government doing it, but we need the oil.
b(1)
Federal taxes and state sales taxes on fuel are stopped. Tha'tll bring the prices down more than anything. To make up the money, we outlaw earmarks at the federal level. We tax political candidates who want to us the TV. We cancel congressional retirement extras. They get no goodies, they get an IRA, they pay into social security. No lifetime B.S If we get term limits in or start voting the jerks out after two terms, they'll have plenty of time to put something together out in the private sector.
One formula for diesel and gas nationwide. Cooking all this shiznit for the different states with limited refining capacity s B.S.
c) We have almost reached a point where being an Eco-Socialist in this country is a dangerous thing. Once the audience wathcing American Idol wakes up and figures out that these people who have been trying for years to engineer this country into their Socialist Utopia, and one of the reasons fuel prices are where they are is because we have not added to the petro-infrastructure in decades due to them protesting and using the ESA to stop every single attempt at building refining capacity, and the American idol watchers see that Eco-Socialism= screwing the public, maybe they'll wake up.
The situation as it is, right now, is going to result in a massive rescession, and that will become apparent when the 1st quarter retail numbers for 2008 hit the airwaves and we find that Wal, K, and all the other marts have not sold the stuff.
d) No more natural gas fired, oil fired power plants to be built. Save the damn oil & petro stuff for other things, like the for fuel for the things that grow the food, harvest the food, and bring the food to the store. Heat houses with gas, etc. It is efficent at doing so. Build the Nucs, build the dams (hydro) build the geothermal, build the trash burner, etc. It isn't wise to use oil to fire a power plant. Enncourage the development of solar heat/electric technology. Even now it is much more efficient than most folks think. At 4-6 bucks a gallon for fuel, it'll be even more so.
I find myself tending to believing folks who have no horse in the race when it comes to this Global Warming deal. The earth has been heating and cooling for long before we got here. It will continue to do so. Whether we are having any impact on it, (as a species) is a long way from being "fact"., Mr. Gore's movie not withstanding and whether he invented the internet or not, the man is a buffon; raised in a hotel and believing his own propaganda isn't healthy, Al.
We are dealing with a well organized and well-funded group of people who have been pushing the citizens of this country around for about 4 decades. They have brought us to where we are, and our obsession working for a living, raising our families and assuming our elected officials will represent us with honor and honesty has failed.
Start showing up at the poles. Vote the self-serving pricks out. If they ignore the demands of the people who elect them, if they fail to act in the best interest of the country, throw them out. Do so every couple of years and we will make the change.
Wake up, people.
We've had it so good in this country for so long that we have people making a damn fine living stopping a road going through because of riparian field mouse habitat.
We pay them thousands of dollars to find a route around the habitat that they approve of. So we can build a road, to drive on to go to work.
We've had it so good for so long in this country that we have reached a place where we think that being nice and talking to people who want nothing more than to kill us, our children, and our childrens children will make them like us.
We've had it so good for so long we think it will go on forever.
Go ask somebody who lived through the depression what that was like.
Go ask somebody who lived through World War II what that was like.
Go ask somebody who lived through the doldrums of the Carter Admin. what that was like, when the rate on a 30 year loan was 19%.
The great silent majority of America needs to rise up.We need to shut down the poison that is Political Correctness, and take the country back from the Self-Chosen Self Blessed Self Right-Righteous Few who have been quietly controlling every step this country takes for too damn long, writing bullshit laws that line their own pockets all under the guise of saving the planet, fixing the satan that is the U.S., etc, and making more American Idol obsessed Americans dependant on the Federal Government, which consolidates their political power, and ensures their political lives.
While all the while China rises, and now has us by the scrotum, and open a new power plant every other day.
While Russia sits on vast reserves of crude, and arms Iran with Nuclear technology.
While a pissant dictator steps onto our shore, into the U.N., and calls our president the great satan, and offers oil vouchers to ou cities.
And look at the quality of people we have running for president.:rolleyes:
But hey this is just my opinion, throwing out a few thoughts, some possibilites and food for thought. I'm sure lots of folks think I am wrong.
I might be about some of the little details.
But I sure as hell am not wrong about the big picture. No amount of double talk or Al Gore movies or Nobel Przes or hillary trying to shove more B.S. at me while all the time trying to control my life is going to convince me otherwise.
Good Day.:D
That right there boys and girls is my nomination for PRF post of the year....MP

[Sleeper CP]

Heavens to Betsy, I had no idea my little post would generate this kind of response!:eek: :eek: :D
Go ask somebody who lived through the doldrums of the Carter Admin. what that was like, when the rate on a 30 year loan was 19%.
.
Good Day.:D
At 4:45 today I almost posted "Hey where is the SOB that started this thread anyway".;) Maybe I should have.
Your comments about Jimmy Carter are just out of hand though. Don't you know a few here believe him to be the next best thing after Bill Clinton:rolleyes:
I believe our Nation's energy policy, or more like lack there of is amoung Pres. Bushes biggest failures:mad: What an icreadable wasted opportunity over the last 8 yrs. to talk to the public about a 14-16 year plan to use our reserves, build Nuke's and work on alternative power sources at the same time.
He has certainly done a poor on this .
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[AzMandella]

You know it's funny but when they released the top paid 50 CEO's of 2006 only 2 Oil CEO's made the list. They were in the bottom 50%. But I never hear people bitchen and moaning that their paying to much for their Ipods and computers. Yes thats right Steve Jobs of Apple was #1 with $600,000,000.If I remember right the highest oil CEO was around 350 - 400 mil. So if a few cents a gallon is bad imagine what he makes per Ipod or desktop. Remember this is a FREE Enterprise system.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

You know it's funny but when they released the top paid 50 CEO's of 2006 only 2 Oil CEO's made the list. They were in the bottom 50%. But I never hear people bitchen and moaning that their paying to much for their Ipods and computers. Yes thats right Steve Jobs of Apple was #1 with $600,000,000.If I remember right the highest oil CEO was around 350 - 400 mil. So if a few cents a gallon is bad imagine what he makes per Ipod or desktop. Remember this is a FREE Enterprise system.
Maybe I remember this wrong but it seems that Exxon'ss profits last year were off the charts higher the other corps, with the exception of other Oil

[AzMandella]

Maybe I remember this wrong but it seems that Exxon'ss profits last year were off the charts higher the other corps, with the exception of other Oil
I'm sure both made far more overall. But this is what the CEO was paid for the year.

[TonkaDriver]

Maybe I remember this wrong but it seems that Exxon'ss profits last year were off the charts higher the other corps, with the exception of other Oil
You are wrong, During the congressional hearings where a bunch of self serving politicains lambasted oil execs The facts were 9 to 10% profit margins. Ask Apple or Microsoft to post those margins and there would be a stockholder revolt. What would happen if the oil companies did what other retailers do and marked their product up 400% like Jewelers and then had 50% off sales where the net is still 100% over the product cost?
I wonder what your insurance company's profit margin was this year? If you look at profit as a percentage they are not out of line. If your brocker was only bringing you 9% on your investments you would be looking for another broker or you should be.

[redneckcharlie]

The retailer $.01 a gallon The Company $.37 if it refines it's own.
Again, retailer $.01 Company $.37
Doesn't this seem a little off?
Alan,
Read the link in my previous post
I'm curious, what s the profit margin in your industry? The point of the retailer making much less is fairly moot. That retailer went into business knowing what the margin is. That is their choice. The fuel margin may be small, but if your going to use that as an argument, you need to show what the margin is on the rest of the merchandise that is sold. IE, soda, candy, cigarettes, etc.

[Old Texan]

Flyinbowtie-
Great Post!!!!!

[OKIE-JET]

Flyinbowtie-
Great Post!!!!!
Agreed!

[centerhill condor]

Maybe I remember this wrong but it seems that Exxon'ss profits last year were off the charts higher the other corps, with the exception of other Oil
Exxon was the world's largest company until just about 6 months ago...shouldn't they have the biggest profits? They're in it for the money right?
CC

[Schiada76]

GREAT post FBT.:D
Ultra, why can't you socialists understand profit margin as a percentage of gross?:rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'm curious, what s the profit margin in your industry? The point of the retailer making much less is fairly moot. That retailer went into business knowing what the margin is. That is their choice. The fuel margin may be small, but if your going to use that as an argument, you need to show what the margin is on the rest of the merchandise that is sold. IE, soda, candy, cigarettes, etc.
Net profit is between 4 and 5%, at the highest
Sorry but 75 billion annual profit seems excessive, but then most of your guys are so wealthy you don't mind paying $4.00, soon to be $5.00 a gallon for diesel. As it is today, with crude being over $90 a barrel, oil company profits are not at the level they have been in recent years. I blame the American people as much as blame big Oil. How many of you guys are driving trucks as your daily drivers? How many or your wives are driving V8 SUV's? Until the American people stop using excessive amounts of fuel, we can count on excessive oil company profits and high prices at the pump. Fools.
Exxon was the world's largest company until just about 6 months ago...shouldn't they have the biggest profits? They're in it for the money right?
CC
CC what is the largest company now?
GREAT post FBT.:D
Ultra, why can't you socialists understand profit margin as a percentage of gross?:rolleyes:
Is there another way to measure profit?

[Schiada76]

Is there another way to measure profit?[/QUOTE]
There must be for you socialists as you contnue to believe 9% profit is being "bent over".
Why aren't there more companies flocking to get into the oil business if the margin is so "outrageously high"?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Is there another way to measure profit?
There must be for you socialists as you contnue to believe 9% profit is being "bent over".
Why aren't there more companies flocking to get into the oil business if the margin is so "outrageously high"?[/QUOTE]
Use your head for a chage.
Exxons profit increased 56% between 04 and 06
Chevron 29%
Conoca/Phillips 91%
Marathon 315%
Don't be a dullard Schiada
It's not about margin it's about net profit.
9% on 500 billion is being bent over.

[redneckcharlie]

There must be for you socialists as you contnue to believe 9% profit is being "bent over".
Why aren't there more companies flocking to get into the oil business if the margin is so "outrageously high"?
Use your head for a chage.
Exxons profit increased 56% between 04 and 06
Chevron 29%
Conoca/Phillips 91%
Marathon 315%
Don't be a dullard Schiada
It's not about margin it's about net profit.
9% on 500 billion is being bent over.[/QUOTE]
It is absolutely about the margin! Have you ever taken an economics class? The amount at the end is irrelevent(for the sake of this argument), all business operates with a margin approach. You stated 4 -5 % for your industry. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that for a second. If that was the case, why open the doors at all? You can get that with just about any investment right now, and not have to deal with employees, overhead, etc. I drive an F250 deisel everyday for work and pleasure, and I'm by no means a baller, but the last thing I want anyone doing is deciding for society what an appropriate profit and wage is for me! If people do not want to pay my rate, they simply will not hire me. You have a choice with the oil companies, buy an all electric car. Buy a hybrid. Ride a bike. Use public transportation. You do not have to buy their product if you do not want to! Now I do see one major problem with that scenario. The boat would have to go away, unless your into sail boats! ;)

[Schiada76]

There must be for you socialists as you contnue to believe 9% profit is being "bent over".
Why aren't there more companies flocking to get into the oil business if the margin is so "outrageously high"?
Use your head for a chage.
Exxons profit increased 56% between 04 and 06
Chevron 29%
Conoca/Phillips 91%
Marathon 315%
Don't be a dullard Schiada
It's not about margin it's about net profit.
9% on 500 billion is being bent over.[/QUOTE]
No, you're wrong, it is about margin.
Private business doesn't owe you socialists anything.
You do realize, adjusted for inflation, gas prices aren't really outrageously high don't you?
Why aren't you whining about Microsoft "bending you over"?
Better yet why aren't you whining about the government bending you over on a gallon of gas?

[Old Texan]

There must be for you socialists as you contnue to believe 9% profit is being "bent over".
Why aren't there more companies flocking to get into the oil business if the margin is so "outrageously high"?
Use your head for a chage.
Exxons profit increased 56% between 04 and 06
Chevron 29%
Conoca/Phillips 91%
Marathon 315%
Don't be a dullard Schiada
It's not about margin it's about net profit.
9% on 500 billion is being bent over.
Rather than resorting to your namecalling which you always point out from "everyone else", :rolleyes: why not explain these numbers you've posted.
"Increased profits" is a meaningless term unless there is an expalantion of profit vs cost.
Margins are meaningless?????
Are we assuming that Marathon is making 315% Net Profit????????
As to your ongoing soapbox about what everyone drives, please expalin how I can pull a trailer and get 4-5 grown adults in a compact car, both required to do business???????
My daughter drives a Chevy Suburban and hauls 4 kids throughout their daily routine plus hauls merchandise for their business. Please explain how she can accomplish this with a minvan other than making extra trips.
Your rhetoric is argumentative and composed mainly of liberal talking points, not realistic situations. Most folks if possible will drive smaller, economic vehicles if they are practical, but for most it makes no sense to have 3-4 vehicles to perform specific purposes. You yourself have 2 vehicles as I understand it, is this practical for everyone? What kind of economic savings would there be if each person had 2-3 vehicles to use for specific purposes? The argument makes just as much sense or lack of as what you've preached to us several posts back.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Use your head for a chage.
Exxons profit increased 56% between 04 and 06
Chevron 29%
Conoca/Phillips 91%
Marathon 315%
Don't be a dullard Schiada
It's not about margin it's about net profit.
9% on 500 billion is being bent over.
It is absolutely about the margin! Have you ever taken an economics class? The amount at the end is irrelevent(for the sake of this argument), all business operates with a margin approach. You stated 4 -5 % for your industry. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that for a second. If that was the case, why open the doors at all? You can get that with just about any investment right now, and not have to deal with employees, overhead, etc. I drive an F250 deisel everyday for work and pleasure, and I'm by no means a baller, but the last thing I want anyone doing is deciding for society what an appropriate profit and wage is for me! If people do not want to pay my rate, they simply will not hire me. You have a choice with the oil companies, buy an all electric car. Buy a hybrid. Ride a bike. Use public transportation. You do not have to buy their product if you do not want to! Now I do see one major problem with that scenario. The boat would have to go away, unless your into sail boats! ;)[/QUOTE]
Sorry Charlie but you have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the business I am in. If we sell 150 million in gross saless means 7.5 million i profit. Where I come from, that's a substancial profit. Please Charlie. we are not talking about profit margins from small business. There is a difference.
You are referring to investment income and not profiet from gross sales. Our company does invest 150 million to make 5% or 7.5 million, it sells 150 million in product. Charlie, I am not going to give you sh*t for your comments, but lord knows I could.
Profit margins decrease with the increase of gross sales increase. Have none of you folks heard of volume sales? 10% net profit on gross sales of 500 billions is outrageous, just like 15% net profit on gross sales of 150 million in my business would be outrageous. Why should auto insurance companies be allowed to charge unreasonable premiums for something that is required by law. They shouldn't be allowed and they are not. I don't see any difference
Gasoline like insurance, electricity and water are not luxury items and as such, profits from such business should be regulated. IMO, there is little difference between the issue here and your local power company charging $500 a month for a small residence.

[centerhill condor]

Gasoline like insurance, electricity and water are not luxury items and as such, profits from such business should be regulated.
I'm glad you finally came out of the closet and put your commie crap right out here in the open. Modern revolutionary, indeed!
CC

[Old Texan]

Sorry Charlie but you have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the business I am in. If we sell 150 million in gross saless means 7.5 million i profit. Where I come from, that's a substancial profit. Please Charlie. we are not talking about profit margins from small business. There is a difference.
You are referring to investment income and not profiet from gross sales. Our company does invest 150 million to make 5% or 7.5 million, it sells 150 million in product. Charlie, I am not going to give you sh*t for your comments, but lord knows I could.
Profit margins decrease with the increase of gross sales increase. Have none of you folks heard of volume sales? 10% net profit on gross sales of 500 billions is outrageous, just like 15% net profit on gross sales of 150 million in my business would be outrageous. Why should auto insurance companies be allowed to charge unreasonable premiums for something that is required by law. They shouldn't be allowed and they are not. I don't see any difference
Gasoline like insurance, electricity and water are not luxury items and as such, profits from such business should be regulated. IMO, there is little difference between the issue here and your local power company charging $500 a month for a small residence.
Thank God you have nothing to do with running a business other than whatever it is you claim to do. The above statement is utterly ridiculous as it applies to business outside of the realm in which you exist.
I sure hope for your sake the owners or board of directors of "Acme Insurance" or whatever your company is, don't read ***boat PRF. If so you will be soon kicking a can down the highway....
Gotta go, I have an afternoon of sales calls and I guarantee they aren't based on the "Ultra Business Plan".....:rolleyes:
Again, Amazing, simply Amazing..........

[Old Texan]

I'm glad you finally came out of the closet and put your commie crap right out here in the open. Modern revolutionary, indeed!
CC
The man is a piece of work indeed........:D
CC, you've struck the nail directly on the head. Socialism LIVES.....It's called Liberalism and it's a diease. Many Libs like our buddy are in denial, but it's there.

[redneckcharlie]

It is absolutely about the margin! Have you ever taken an economics class? The amount at the end is irrelevent(for the sake of this argument), all business operates with a margin approach. You stated 4 -5 % for your industry. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that for a second. If that was the case, why open the doors at all? You can get that with just about any investment right now, and not have to deal with employees, overhead, etc. I drive an F250 deisel everyday for work and pleasure, and I'm by no means a baller, but the last thing I want anyone doing is deciding for society what an appropriate profit and wage is for me! If people do not want to pay my rate, they simply will not hire me. You have a choice with the oil companies, buy an all electric car. Buy a hybrid. Ride a bike. Use public transportation. You do not have to buy their product if you do not want to! Now I do see one major problem with that scenario. The boat would have to go away, unless your into sail boats! ;)
Sorry Charlie but you have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the business I am in. If we sell 150 million in gross saless means 7.5 million i profit. Where I come from, that's a substancial profit. Please Charlie. we are not talking about profit margins from small business. There is a difference.
You are referring to investment income and not profiet from gross sales. Our company does invest 150 million to make 5% or 7.5 million, it sells 150 million in product. Charlie, I am not going to give you sh*t for your comments, but lord knows I could.
Profit margins decrease with the increase of gross sales increase. Have none of you folks heard of volume sales? 10% net profit on gross sales of 500 billions is outrageous, just like 15% net profit on gross sales of 150 million in my business would be outrageous. Why should auto insurance companies be allowed to charge unreasonable premiums for something that is required by law. They shouldn't be allowed and they are not. I don't see any difference
Gasoline like insurance, electricity and water are not luxury items and as such, profits from such business should be regulated. IMO, there is little difference between the issue here and your local power company charging $500 a month for a small residence.[/QUOTE]
Actually Ultra, give me all the xxit you want. I have a thick skin and I do know what I'm talking about. Actually, I know what the model is for most insurance companies as well. The Insurance industry is a major investor, on many of the casinos, that I work on. They are not investing(as you state) at a six percent rate!. As far as your example of margins going down with the increase of gross sales, that completely depends on the curve a particular business operates on. There are so many factors with that curve it isn't even funny. Despite your belief, not every company drops their margin with the increase in sales. Market conditions depict that.
Now, getting back to the original argument of fuel(that was the original thing right), should we reduce our use of foreign resources? That depends, from a strategic point of view, no. Use your adversaries resources before your own, thats a simple strategy of power. Should fuel economy be better, absolutely! The public can change that. As soon as people stop buying products that use excessive amounts of fuel(you and I included), the auto industry will raise the standards. Its a slippery slope when you let public sentiment dictate the profitibality of private industry.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Rather than resorting to your namecalling which you always point out from "everyone else", :rolleyes: why not explain these numbers you've posted.
"Increased profits" is a meaningless term unless there is an expalantion of profit vs cost.
Margins are meaningless?????
Are we assuming that Marathon is making 315% Net Profit????????
As to your ongoing soapbox about what everyone drives, please expalin how I can pull a trailer and get 4-5 grown adults in a compact car, both required to do business???????
My daughter drives a Chevy Suburban and hauls 4 kids throughout their daily routine plus hauls merchandise for their business. Please explain how she can accomplish this with a minvan other than making extra trips.
Your rhetoric is argumentative and composed mainly of liberal talking points, not realistic situations. Most folks if possible will drive smaller, economic vehicles if they are practical, but for most it makes no sense to have 3-4 vehicles to perform specific purposes. You yourself have 2 vehicles as I understand it, is this practical for everyone? What kind of economic savings would there be if each person had 2-3 vehicles to use for specific purposes? The argument makes just as much sense or lack of as what you've preached to us several posts back.
Don't be a dullard is hardly name calling,
No. A 315% increase would mean that if Marathon made a $100 pre-2004. Between 04 and 06 that they made $415. Profit vs cost is moot, when discussing increased profit. The only factor is initial profit.
You obvioulsy can't handle your needs with a Hugo and nor can your daughter. More than not, this isn't the case.
My points are valid to many. Don't try and spin this issue into talking points BS., Tax, are you saying that you can't afford to own a second or third vehicle that good gas mileage or you saying that you just chose not to? Seems to me it's the later.
Actually Ultra, give me all the xxit you want. I have a thick skin and I do know what I'm talking about. Actually, I know what the model is for most insurance companies as well. The Insurance industry is a major investor, on many of the casinos, that I work on. They are not investing(as you state) at a six percent rate!. As far as your example of margins going down with the increase of gross sales, that completely depends on the curve a particular business operates on. There are so many factors with that curve it isn't even funny. Despite your belief, not every company drops their margin with the increase in sales. Market conditions depict that.
Now, getting back to the original argument of fuel(that was the original thing right), should we reduce our use of foreign resources? That depends, from a strategic point of view, no. Use your adversaries resources before your own, thats a simple strategy of power. Should fuel economy be better, absolutely! The public can change that. As soon as people stop buying products that use excessive amounts of fuel(you and I included), the auto industry will raise the standards. Its a slippery slope when you let public sentiment dictate the profitibality of private industry.
We have not been talking about investing 6% You baiscally called me a liar when I stated that our Company operates on 5% gross sales profit margin.
We don't invest 150 million to make 5% we sell sell a 150 million in product, to net 5% 7.5 million in profit. There is a huge different. I wasn't trying to be am a**hole.
Of course we should use up their oil before we use our own, but IMO, reduce our dependence. Are Utility companies considered private industry? Why should oil be?

[Moneypitt]

I though supply and demand played a big role in the market. But now we have a surplus of fuel, and demand is at a low, yet the wall street prices are still going to the moon, along with the prices at the pump........Refineries must move product, (demand), in order to keep supplies at a constant level. So what is happening now?.....Speculators are screwing us, the same as the realestate industry continually telling us how bad it is......Can someone explain to me what it will take to bump the housing industry back to normal....Rock bottom interest rates? Total collapse of housing values? With all these foreclosures going on, the speculators should be buying like crazy, but no one is........The banks are stuck with all these houses, so when do the selling prices get back to reality?..........Is this what the banks are crying about? "We loaned XXXXXXXXXX for John Q Modern to buy this house,, and now he can't pay, and the house is only worth ZZZZZZZZZZ....Am I even close here?...............MP

[redneckcharlie]

Don't be a dullard is hardly name calling,
No we are considering that if Marathon made a $100. between 04 and 06 that they made $415. Profit vs cost is moot, when discussing increased profit. The only factor is initial profit.
You obvioulsy can't handle your needs with a Hugo and nor can your daughter. More than not, this isn't the case.
My points are valid to many. Don't try and spin this issue into talking points BS., Tax, are you saying that you can't afford to own a second or third vehicle that good gas mileage or you saying that you just chose not to? Seems to me it's the later.
We have not been talking about investing 6% You baiscally called me a liar when I stated that our Company operates on 5% gross sales profit margin.
We don't invest 150 million to make 5% we sell sell a 150 million in product, to net 5% 7.5 million in profit. There is a huge different. I wasn't trying to be am a**hole.
Of course we should use up their oil before we use our own, but IMO, reduce our dependence. Are Utility companies considered private industry? Why should oil be?
First off, I've NEVER called you names! Many here have, and I've never been one of them. If you can't handle someone questioning the validity of something you better stop hanging out in this forum. As far as your point on your companies profit margin, you posted that to show how thin it was. My point was that if its that slim, theres no reason to even be open for business. That percentage can be gained easily without any of the headaches. :mad:

[Schiada76]

So ultraleft now wants to nationalize the oil industry.
Ultra you're a communist.:rolleyes:
This boob even puts insurance up there with essentials for life.
What about food , clothing and housing? You don't need gas if you don't have food and shelter.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
liberals are fools

[ULTRA26 # 1]

First off, I've NEVER called you names! Many here have, and I've never been one of them. If you can't handle someone questioning the validity of something you better stop hanging out in this forum. As far as your point on your companies profit margin, you posted that to show how thin it was. My point was that if its that slim, theres no reason to even be open for business. That percentage can be gained easily without any of the headaches. :mad:
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that for a second. If that was the case, why open the doors at all? You can get that with just about any investment right now, and not have to deal with employees, overhead, etc.
This was you response to me answering your question about our company's % of profit. 5% of 150 million is sales isn't thin by means.
So ultraleft now wants to nationalize the oil industry.
Ultra you're a communist.:rolleyes:
This boob even puts insurance up there with essentials for life.
What about food , clothing and housing? You don't need gas if you don't have food and shelter.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
liberals are fools
The more you write better I appear, so please keep it up.

[Schiada76]

So enlighten us 'O great and powerful one.
Why don't the big bad oil companies make 100% profit?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

So enlighten us 'O great and powerful one.
Why don't the big bad oil companies make 100% profit?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
As I said, the more you yap the better it makes me look.
100% profit:confused:

[Schiada76]

As I said, the more you yap the better it makes me look.
100% profit:confused:
Sure Ultralefty why not?
The big evil all powerful oil companies are bending you over right? Why don't they just bend you over further? They are big evil oil why wouldn't they?
Why don't they charge 1000% percent profit?
Enlighten us, communist.

[redneckcharlie]

This was you response to me answering your question about our company's % of profit. 5% of 150 million is sales isn't thin by means.
The more you write better I appear, so please keep it up.
Where did I call you a name? :rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Sure Ultralefty why not?
The big evil all powerful oil companies are bending you over right? Why don't they just bend you over further? They are big evil oil why wouldn't they?
Why don't they charge 1000% percent profit?
Enlighten us, communist.
Grow up, would you please.
Where did I call you a name? :rolleyes:
No names. You stated that didn't buy my statement for a minute. This implys that I am not telling the truth, or that I am lying. You don't understand this?

[Schiada76]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2892322]Grow up, would you please.
QUOTE]
So? Why not 1000% Ulefty? Why do they only bend you over 9% when they could bend you over 2000%?
They are big mean and all powerful aren't they?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

So? Why not 1000% Ulefty? Why do they only bend you over 9% when they could bend you over 2000%?
They are big mean and all powerful aren't they?
:) :) :idea:

[redneckcharlie]

Grow up, would you please.
No names. You stated that didn't buy my statement for a minute. This implys that I am not telling the truth, or that I am lying. You don't understand this?
So, everytime someone states something you don't buy, that will be interpreted as you calling them a liar. You insinuated previously by my post that I'm somewhat less knowledgeable than you in this area(and thats putting it nicely). So, I'm going to interpret that as you calling me a dumbxxck. I find it curious you didn't discount my statements about your industries business model. If you want to turn this into some type of personal attack, then so be it. And i inturn will do the same. I don't run my life running around insulting people, and I inturn expect the same. The difference with me is I actually go to Havasu and I have no problem dealing with someone man to man! Thats a dangerous path to go down, over people discussing an issue!

[Schiada76]

:) :) :idea:
Come on Ulefty it's a simple question, don't go all Hillery on us.
Why don't they charge more than 9% profit if they are bending you over?

[Steve 1]

The man is a piece of work indeed........:D
CC, you've struck the nail directly on the head. Socialism LIVES.....It's called Liberalism and it's a diease. Many Libs like our buddy are in denial, but it's there.
Right it is just a CLOAK NAME/CODE WORD the lefties use for their Grand Nanny State and end Game of Full Blown Communism. Others would be “Progressive” “Free thinking” “National” These worthless Dirt-Balls have never spent a day in the real world and running a business.

[never_fast_enuf]

Profit Margin
A ratio of profitability calculated as gross earnings divided by revenues (or, said another way, gross profits divided by sales). It measures how much out of every dollar of sales a company actually keeps in earnings.
Profit margin is very useful when comparing companies in similar industries. A higher profit margin indicates a more profitable company that has better control over its costs compared to the competitors in the industry. Profit margin is displayed as a percentage a 20% profit margin, for example, which means that the company has a net income of $0.20 for each dollar of sales.
Investopedia Commentary
Looking at the earnings of a company often doesn't tell the entire story. Increased earnings are good, but an increase does not mean that the profit margin of a company is improving. For instance, if a company has costs that have increased at a greater rate than sales, it leads to a lower profit margin. This is an indication that costs need to be under better control.
Related Links
The Bottom Line On Margins
See also: After Tax Profit Margin, Du Pont Identity, Net earnings, Revenue

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Profit Margin
A ratio of profitability calculated as gross earnings divided by revenues (or, said another way, gross profits divided by sales). It measures how much out of every dollar of sales a company actually keeps in earnings.
Profit margin is very useful when comparing companies in similar industries. A higher profit margin indicates a more profitable company that has better control over its costs compared to the competitors in the industry. Profit margin is displayed as a percentage a 20% profit margin, for example, which means that the company has a net income of $0.20 for each dollar of sales.
Investopedia Commentary
Looking at the earnings of a company often doesn't tell the entire story. Increased earnings are good, but an increase does not mean that the profit margin of a company is improving. For instance, if a company has costs that have increased at a greater rate than sales, it leads to a lower profit margin. This is an indication that costs need to be under better control.
Related Links
The Bottom Line On Margins
See also: After Tax Profit Margin, Du Pont Identity, Net earnings, Revenue
Nfe, some good info. Not sure why the NeoClowns like paying more than they should for fuel. 9% this month, 15% same time a year ago, and I guaranty the % will rise again.
People seem to think that our Company's 5% net profit on a 150 million in sales in lean. Seems to me to me this a very healthy profit, but then what do I know about making money :confused: Just a dumb uneducated pinko commie. :D

[Steve 1]

Nfe, some good info. Not sure why the NeoClowns like paying more than they should for fuel. 9% this month, 15% same time a year ago, and I guaranty the % will rise again.
People seem to think that our Company's 5% net profit on a 150 million in sales in lean. Seems to me to me this a very healthy profit, but then what do I know about making money :confused: Just a dumb uneducated pinko commie. :D
Clue Leftie; No Profit No Company Got that?? But wait in the wonderful wacky land of lib-OZ if you need money just raise prices see post office! But in the real world of DemocRats profit is a bad word, now I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Clue Leftie; No Profit No Company Got that?? But wait in the wonderful wacky land of lib-OZ if you need money just raise prices see post office! But in the real world of DemocRats profit is a bad word, now I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve, apparantly you haven't had your shots today. Now what did Nurse Ratchet tell you about skipping your meds.

[Old Texan]

Don't be a dullard is hardly name calling,
No. A 315% increase would mean that if Marathon made a $100 pre-2004. Between 04 and 06 that they made $415. Profit vs cost is moot, when discussing increased profit. The only factor is initial profit.
You obvioulsy can't handle your needs with a Hugo and nor can your daughter. More than not, this isn't the case.
My points are valid to many. Don't try and spin this issue into talking points BS., Tax, are you saying that you can't afford to own a second or third vehicle that good gas mileage or you saying that you just chose not to? Seems to me it's the later.
HUgo huh.:D
Ultra, I do choose not to own a "Hugo" or a compact due to the fact I just don't have the room. I own 3 vehicles. 2 trucks and an older Porsche. I own 3boats. I own 2 tractors. I live on 2 lots in a gated resort subdivision and have boat storage off property. My youngest daughter lives with me (temporarily 'til the new house is done), which is 1 more car and her fiance "thinks" he lives here, 1 more truck. Point is it isn't prctical to own more vehicles. Get the picture?????
Like it or not you don't get the picture with oil companies, business profit, your "neocon" nonsense about the rest of us not caring about high energy prices, and other topics I'm beginning to feel are more numerous than first thought.
You continually take posts out of context and do as much or more name calling than anyone here. You are often dense when it comes to satirical statements and have a highly elitist opinion of many. How's that grab ya????:eek: :D :devil:
You've got Charlie wound up trying to deal with your lack of business knowledge calling him akin to stupid, just because you don't agree and yet can't baclk up your pointbecause it's weak. And quite frankly you're just pretty much unreasonable. :idea: :D
Now that I have all that out in the open I will return to my elderly, out of my element, neocon, angry, ridiculous, equal rights denying life......:devil: :D
P.S.- Don't take it personal and notice I didn't go into your short fuse with that temper of yours.:devil: :D

[never_fast_enuf]

Nfe, some good info. Not sure why the NeoClowns like paying more than they should for fuel. 9% this month, 15% same time a year ago, and I guaranty the % will rise again.
People seem to think that our Company's 5% net profit on a 150 million in sales in lean. Seems to me to me this a very healthy profit, but then what do I know about making money :confused: Just a dumb uneducated pinko commie. :D
Look, I don't enjoy paying higher gas prices either but you can't pin the blame on the Oil companies. Their profit margin is essentially the same as it has been for years and is right in line with other big industry.
The fact is, oil companies are in business to make a profit. They are in business to make money for the owners and shareholders....period.
If they had boosted their margins during the last several years, you would have an argument but they haven't. They have sold record amounts of fuel and when you combine that with the steep rise in the cost of crude, of course they will show record income. I just don't see how you can gripe about record top line revenue when their profit margin hasn't risen.
Lastly, the government makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do and they don't have the expense and exposure of getting it out of the ground, refining it and getting it to the pumps. They just sit back with their hands out.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

HUgo huh.:D
Ultra, I do choose not to own a "Hugo" or a compact due to the fact I just don't have the room. I own 3 vehicles. 2 trucks and an older Porsche. I own 3boats. I own 2 tractors. I live on 2 lots in a gated resort subdivision and have boat storage off property. My youngest daughter lives with me (temporarily 'til the new house is done), which is 1 more car and her fiance "thinks" he lives here, 1 more truck. Point is it isn't prctical to own more vehicles. Get the picture?????
Like it or not you don't get the picture with oil companies, business profit, your "neocon" nonsense about the rest of us not caring about high energy prices, and other topics I'm beginning to feel are more numerous than first thought.
You continually take posts out of context and do as much or more name calling than anyone here. You are often dense when it comes to satirical statements and have a highly elitist opinion of many. How's that grab ya????:eek: :D :devil:
You've got Charlie wound up trying to deal with your lack of business knowledge calling him akin to stupid, just because you don't agree and yet can't baclk up your pointbecause it's weak. And quite frankly you're just pretty much unreasonable. :idea: :D
Now that I have all that out in the open I will return to my elderly, out of my element, neocon, angry, ridiculous, equal rights denying life......:devil: :D
P.S.- Don't take it personal and notice I didn't go into your short fuse with that temper of yours.
Sure I get the picture. It isn't conveient for you to own a small vehicle or you chose not to.
I forgot that you get the picture, and guys like me who are smart enough to understand profit.
With regard to name calling (with the exception of one goofy engineer) you're a bit of. It seems you say anything you can to get a rise out of me, whether is true or not.
You're comments regarding my lack of business knowlegde are funny. As I recall Charlies called me "AKIN": to a liar, so I thought I should point out his comments wree wrong.
Now that I have all that out in the open I will return to my elderly, out of my element, neocon, angry, ridiculous, equal rights denying life OK :D
Look, I don't enjoy paying higher gas prices either but you can't pin the blame on the Oil companies. Their profit margin is essentially the same as it has been for years and is right in line with other big industry.
The fact is, oil companies are in business to make a profit. They are in business to make money for the owners and shareholders....period.
If they had boosted their margins during the last several years, you would have an argument but they haven't. They have sold record amounts of fuel and when you combine that with the steep rise in the cost of crude, of course they will show record income. I just don't see how you can gripe about record top line revenue when their profit margin hasn't risen.
Lastly, the government makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do and they don't have the expense and exposure of getting it out of the ground, refining it and getting it to the pumps. They just sit back with their hands out.
Actually, they have operated at different profit margins over the last few years. While prices are gas prices are high now, profit margins are down. Profits right now, while still very high, are more in line. The profit margin last year and year before were obscene. If oil stays near $100, expect the price of gas to rise until it's over $5.00 per gallon. With regard to the tax the Govt receives, I guess we could eliminate it and drive on dirt and gravel roads.

[never_fast_enuf]

Take a look at this Ultra and tell me what you think.
Lets say you build a widget that costs you $100.00 per widget. You in turn sell that widget for $110.00 You make a profit of 10 bucks per widget (10% margin). If you sell 1000 widgets per year, your top line revinue is $110,000.00 with a profit of $10,000.00
Now, one year later, consumption of your widget is way up. In fact, you sell 2000 widgets. The down side is that your cost to make them is now $200.00 per widget. You don't lower your 10 points of margin so you now sell them to the public for $220.00 per widget. NOW you make a profit of $20.00 per widget. Are you screwing your customers?
Doing the math, that means you had a massive record top line revenue of $440,000.00 and profit of $40,000.00!!! That profit is 400% higher than last year. Again, did you screw your customers?

[Old Texan]

Hey Ultra, who sets the price of gasoline?:idea:

[Steve 1]

Steve, apparantly you haven't had your shots today. Now what did Nurse Ratchet tell you about skipping your meds.
Skipping Meds??? Why you would be the forum expert on that!

[Moneypitt]

This .20 cents per dollar sold is not a 20% profit margin........Example, you pay $1.00 for a widget....You mark it up 30%......Sale price is $1.30, right.....That is not a 30% profit as you have bought the widget for 76.9% of what you sold it for....A 23.1% profit...........The multipliers are 1.42 for a 30% profit, (or cost $1.00, sell at $1.42= 30% profit).....1.67 = 40%.........So a widget bought for $1.00 needs to sell for $1.67 to make a 40% profit.....MP
The oil companies look like the villans, but it is based on BILLIONS of gallons being sold worldwide. Even a few cents per gallon adds up quickly when you consider the number of gallons sold.......We have it very good compared to other places around the globe, our gas is the cheapest in the modern world......MP

[Schiada76]

Nfe, some good info. Not sure why the NeoClowns like paying more than they should for fuel. 9% this month, 15% same time a year ago, and I guaranty the % will rise again.
People seem to think that our Company's 5% net profit on a 150 million in sales in lean. Seems to me to me this a very healthy profit, but then what do I know about making money :confused: Just a dumb uneducated pinko commie. :D
No ultra we don't like paying more for gas, we're just smart enough to not lay blame where it isn't due and epect the government to make it all warm and fuzzy again.:rolleyes:

[never_fast_enuf]

With regard to the tax the Govt receives, I guess we could eliminate it and drive on dirt and gravel roads.
The federal gas tax was levied back in 1956 with the promise of finishing the interstate highway system. Well, that system was completed by 1982.
A share of the federal tax is diverted to purposes other than roads, including urban mass transit, ferry boats, railroads, historic renovation, hiking trails, landscaping, covered bridges, scenic byways and Appalachian redevelopment.
The feds also hold this money ransom, forcing states to comply with a variety of mandates from drinking ages, to blood-alcohol content, clean-air standards, law enforcement, union contracts and more.

[Schiada76]

Actually, they have operated at different profit margins over the last few years. While prices are gas prices are high now, profit margins are down. Profits right now, while still very high, are more in line. The profit margin last year and year before were obscene. If oil stays near $100, expect the price of gas to rise until it's over $5.00 per gallon. With regard to the tax the Govt receives, I guess we could eliminate it and drive on dirt and gravel roads.
This is where your liberal lack of business acumen really shines through.
Companies don't change their targeted profit margin year by year, they have good years and bad years. Why don't broaden your research to include the years the oil companies were negative?:rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

The federal gas tax was levied back in 1956 with the promise of finishing the interstate highway system. Well, that system was completed by 1982.
A share of the federal tax is diverted to purposes other than roads, including urban mass transit, ferry boats, railroads, historic renovation, hiking trails, landscaping, covered bridges, scenic byways and Appalachian redevelopment.
The feds also hold this money ransom, forcing states to comply with a variety of mandates from drinking ages, to blood-alcohol content, clean-air standards, law enforcement, union contracts and more.
The State here steals it too.
When will these libs start screaming about the 40% out right waste of tax dollars the way they do about business?
Oh wait, never, they loooooove socialism.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The federal gas tax was levied back in 1956 with the promise of finishing the interstate highway system. Well, that system was completed by 1982.
A share of the federal tax is diverted to purposes other than roads, including urban mass transit, ferry boats, railroads, historic renovation, hiking trails, landscaping, covered bridges, scenic byways and Appalachian redevelopment.
The feds also hold this money ransom, forcing states to comply with a variety of mandates from drinking ages, to blood-alcohol content, clean-air standards, law enforcement, union contracts and more.
Do you have a problem with this? I don't

[ULTRA26 # 1]

This .20 cents per dollar sold is not a 20% profit margin........Example, you pay $1.00 for a widget....You mark it up 30%......Sale price is $1.30, right.....That is not a 30% profit as you have bought the widget for 76.9% of what you sold it for....A 23.1% profit...........The multipliers are 1.42 for a 30% profit, (or cost $1.00, sell at $1.42= 30% profit).....1.67 = 40%.........So a widget bought for $1.00 needs to sell for $1.67 to make a 40% profit.....MP
The oil companies look like the villans, but it is based on BILLIONS of gallons being sold worldwide. Even a few cents per gallon adds up quickly when you consider the number of gallons sold.......We have it very good compared to other places around the globe, our gas is the cheapest in the modern world......MP
Ray I agree that we have it better than some.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/27/news/companies/exxon/
At the volume gasoline is sold, a 3 to 5% margin of profit would still net Big Oil Billions in profit.
I guess I'm not smart enough to talk business with all of the ultra sucessful money poeple on HB. So I think I will STFU and keep driving my little car and continue to laugh all the way to the bank :D :D :D

[never_fast_enuf]

Ray I agree that we have it better than some.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/27/news/companies/exxon/
At the volume gasoline is sold, a 3 to 5% margin of profit would still net Big Oil Billions in profit.
I guess I'm not smart enough to talk business with all of the ultra sucessful money poeple on HB. So I think I will STFU and keep driving my little car and continue to laugh all the way to the bank :D :D :D
What other corporations would you like to dictate how much money they are allowed to make? It is this line of thinking that scares the hell out of most non liberals.
Apple makes a profit margin of over 50% per Iphone. Should that be regulated? Should they be capped at say 15%? What about shareholders of Apple? Should there even be shareholders of Apple or should the government just control every aspect of business?
These questions are not leaps when one starts to complain that a 9% profit margin is too much. You and I have discussed the amount of money we make per year. How would you like it if a politician looked at the amount you make and said "you know what, you can live on far less. We are going to take everything you make over 50K a year".

[ULTRA26 # 1]

What other corporations would you like to dictate how much money they are allowed to make? It is this line of thinking that scares the hell out of most non liberals.
Apple makes a profit margin of over 50% per Iphone. Should that be regulated? Should they be capped at say 15%? What about shareholders of Apple? Should there even be shareholders of Apple or should the government just control every aspect of business?
These questions are not leaps when one starts to complain that a 9% profit margin is too much. You and I have discussed the amount of money we make per year. How would you like it if a politician looked at the amount you make and said "you know what, you can live on far less. We are going to take everything you make over 50K a year".
I see oil as I do utilities. I also see oil as a necessity right up there with food and clothes.
They have for many years, especially since I started getting hit with AMT.
Help me with this. Why doesn't the price of gas follow the price of oil?

[Old Texan]

This .20 cents per dollar sold is not a 20% profit margin........Example, you pay $1.00 for a widget....You mark it up 30%......Sale price is $1.30, right.....That is not a 30% profit as you have bought the widget for 76.9% of what you sold it for....A 23.1% profit...........The multipliers are 1.42 for a 30% profit, (or cost $1.00, sell at $1.42= 30% profit).....1.67 = 40%.........So a widget bought for $1.00 needs to sell for $1.67 to make a 40% profit.....MP
The oil companies look like the villans, but it is based on BILLIONS of gallons being sold worldwide. Even a few cents per gallon adds up quickly when you consider the number of gallons sold.......We have it very good compared to other places around the globe, our gas is the cheapest in the modern world......MP
To achieve 30%, divide cost by .70
By the way I beleive Ultra is ignoring my question, "Hey Ultra, who sets the price of gasoline?"

[Old Texan]

I see oil as I do utilities. I also see oil as a necessity right up there with food and clothes.
They have for many years, especially since I started getting hit with AMT.
Help me with this. Why doesn't the price of gas follow the price of oil?
Ultra, who sets the price of gasoline?
Are you also suggesting we allow the government to regulate gas, food, and clothing? They regulate utilities......:idea:
Which brings forth another question, is Cable TV a utility? Which leads us to is a Utility a necessity?
Wellllllll......??????

[Moneypitt]

Ultra, who sets the price of gasoline?
Are you also suggesting we allow the government to regulate gas, food, and clothing? They regulate utilities......:idea:
Which brings forth another question, is Cable TV a utility? Which leads us to is a Utility a necessity?
Wellllllll......??????
I have inside info that said John is at one of his kid's basketball games this evening, he'll be back..........MP

[AzMandella]

I see oil as I do utilities. I also see oil as a necessity right up there with food and clothes.
They have for many years, especially since I started getting hit with AMT.
Help me with this. Why doesn't the price of gas follow the price of oil?
You may look at gas as an utility but it's not. Is it absolutely neccasary to put 100 gal in your boat and burn it all weekend? If you want government to regulate gasoline prices then they would have to regulate what is necessary travel also. That means no more driving up to the mountain to watch the sunset. The wife cannot just go window shopping at the mall for the hell of it and families can nolonger go on vacation as it in not a necesity to see Mickey Mouse. In fact very little of our driving habbits are necesity. In fact there is public transpotation for getting to work so you cannot count that one either.

[Moneypitt]

You may look at gas as an utility but it's not. Is it absolutely neccasary to put 100 gal in your boat and burn it all weekend? If you want government to regulate gasoline prices then they would have to regulate what is necessary travel also. That means no more driving up to the mountain to watch the sunset. The wife cannot just go window shopping at the mall for the hell of it and families can nolonger go on vacation as it in not a necesity to see Mickey Mouse. In fact very little of our driving habbits are necesity. In fact there is public transpotation for getting to work so you cannot count that one either.
That works if you have a million people in 800 sq blocks......Not so well if you have a million people in 800 sq miles........Most sucessful public transportation was in place as the population grew....As cities and suburbs expanded the public part of transportation lagged way behind, as now is evidenced in the greater LA areas.........Here in Ventura county, a 25 minute car trip is a 2 hour bus ride, EACH WAY...........The sucessful transit systems took advantage of our habits and our way of life. It is a given in NYC that you're going to ride the subway, people always have and always will. But here in So Cal people have always driven themselves, and as creatures of habit, always will. So efforts of mass transit will struggle to break even and require govenment subsities to survive.....Rising gas prices MAY change a few habits, but in the long run people here will drive. In my own personal experience a job in Camarillo, 7 minutes by car, is almost an hour by bus........Turns an 8 hour day into a 10 hour day.......Is 2 hours worth the gas? And does that make it a necessity.........MP

[AzMandella]

That works if you have a million people in 800 sq blocks......Not so well if you have a million people in 800 sq miles........Most sucessful public transportation was in place as the population grew....As cities and suburbs expanded the public part of transportation lagged way behind, as now is evidenced in the greater LA areas.........Here in Ventura county, a 25 minute car trip is a 2 hour bus ride, EACH WAY...........The sucessful transit systems took advantage of our habits and our way of life. It is a given in NYC that you're going to ride the subway, people always have and always will. But here in So Cal people have always driven themselves, and as creatures of habit, always will. So efforts of mass transit will struggle to break even and require govenment subsities to survive.....Rising gas prices MAY change a few habits, but in the long run people here will drive. In my own personal experience a job in Camarillo, 7 minutes by car, is almost an hour by bus........Turns an 8 hour day into a 10 hour day.......Is 2 hours worth the gas? And does that make it a necessity.........MP
I agree with you. That not all areas have efficient public transportation. Yeah it would turn a 8hr day into a 10 and 12hr day. But my point was it is not an imperitive necesity to drive to work. There are other means if you had to. I do not believe in government regulation. With exception of a very few things. My point was that 90% of our driving habbits are not necesity but pleasure and as such it is not comparable to utilities.

[Moneypitt]

I agree with you. That not all areas have efficient public transportation. Yeah it would turn a 8hr day into a 10 and 12hr day. But my point was it is not an imperitive necesity to drive to work. There are other means if you had to. I do not believe in government regulation. With exception of a very few things. My point was that 90% of our driving habbits are not necesity but pleasure and as such it is not comparable to utilities.
Agreed, gasoline and utilities are not in the same league. I seem to remember back when things were regulated, AT&T, milk, etc etc.. Then regulations were lifted for competitive pricing to benefit the consumer, and the consumer, (you and me) took it in the ass...............Higher prices and less bang for the buck.....Then there were stories going the other way, un regulated to regulated.....And the consumer, again you and me, took it in the ass again.........Damn politicans...............MP

[ULTRA26 # 1]

You may look at gas as an utility but it's not. Is it absolutely neccasary to put 100 gal in your boat and burn it all weekend? If you want government to regulate gasoline prices then they would have to regulate what is necessary travel also. That means no more driving up to the mountain to watch the sunset. The wife cannot just go window shopping at the mall for the hell of it and families can nolonger go on vacation as it in not a necesity to see Mickey Mouse. In fact very little of our driving habbits are necesity. In fact there is public transpotation for getting to work so you cannot count that one either.
The part about gasoline for pleasure I agree with, but there is large portion of gasoline that is needed to get to work. Not all areas have public transportain, not to mention that oil is a natural resource, being that is comes from the earth. We don't agree about this and that's fine.

[AzMandella]

The part about gasoline for pleasure I agree with, but there is large portion of gasoline that is needed to get to work. Not all areas have public transportain, not to mention that oil is a natural resource, being that is comes from the earth. We don't agree about this and that's fine.
sure there are alot of areas that do not have public transportation making a car a nececity to get to work. But for many others like myself and from the looks of it you do not live in the boonies, it is more of a convenience than a nececity. for me it only takes 15 min by car to work. But would take 45min + by bus. That makes it far more convenient for me to drive. But if I didn't have a car there is no excuse for me to not be able to get to work. It just would take more time out of my day. People back east do it all the time. My brother in law lives in Jersey but works in Manhatten. He spends 1-1/2 hours each way. But it's still way cheaper than driving especialy with the prices they pay to park in Mqanhatten. I was there in June and went to B&H Photo in Manhatten and it cost me 25 bucks for 2 hrs. And I know for myself I burn way more gas in theother things I do than driving to and from work. It is in no way comparable to say Natural Gas to heat my house. SWG is the only providor for natural gas for quite a few states and that gives them a Monopoly. That's where Gov. regulation comes in hand.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

sure there are alot of areas that do not have public transportation making a car a nececity to get to work. But for many others like myself and from the looks of it you do not live in the boonies, it is more of a convenience than a nececity. for me it only takes 15 min by car to work. But would take 45min + by bus. That makes it far more convenient for me to drive. But if I didn't have a car there is no excuse for me to not be able to get to work. It just would take more time out of my day. People back east do it all the time. My brother in law lives in Jersey but works in Manhatten. He spends 1-1/2 hours each way. But it's still way cheaper than driving especialy with the prices they pay to park in Mqanhatten. I was there in June and went to B&H Photo in Manhatten and it cost me 25 bucks for 2 hrs. And I know for myself I burn way more gas in theother things I do than driving to and from work. It is in no way comparable to say Natural Gas to heat my house. SWG is the only providor for natural gas for quite a few states and that gives them a Monopoly. That's where Gov. regulation comes in hand.
AZM, I understand what you are saying. Most of my anger at big oil is not a result of today's prices and profits. 05 and 06 oil profits were insane. If the price of gas was to remain as it is today, vs the cost of oil, I wouldn't complain. But IMO in won't. I do respect your opinion and you make sense.

[Old Texan]

I have inside info that said John is at one of his kid's basketball games this evening, he'll be back..........MP
He's mad at me. Got his feelings hurt and is ignoring me.
The old "he can dish it out but can't take it" apparently applies.

[eliminatedsprinter]

OK, just for the sake of arguement lets agree that there is Global Warming. How does anyone know IF its man-made or a natural occurance? And If its man-made how does any pro global warming person account for the warming of Mars, that is warming at about the same rate the earth is? Could it be that the planets are warming because the Sun is getting hotter? What say you now, Algore?:idea:
Actually it is believed that Mars is warming because it is in a warming phase in it's "solar wobble". Our Ice ages and warming trends are also influenced by our own "solar wobble", in addition to solar activity. "Greenhouse gasses" have always been thought to be a lesser factor in our warming/cooling cycles than "solar wobble" and solar activity. Galileo Galilei actually was the first to notice that climite warming was associated with increased sunspot activity.
P.S. I'm no expert, but I do have scientists in my family (my father and step father) and I did take climatology in college.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ultra, who sets the price of gasoline?
Are you also suggesting we allow the government to regulate gas, food, and clothing? They regulate utilities......:idea:
Which brings forth another question, is Cable TV a utility? Which leads us to is a Utility a necessity?
Wellllllll......??????
The price of gasoline is established by many factors, two which are supply and demand, and the price of crude.
No.
No, cable TV is not a utility.
Wellllllllll what?
He's mad at me. Got his feelings hurt and is ignoring me.
The old "he can dish it out but can't take it" apparently applies.
Feelings hurt about what? Are you OK?

[Old Texan]

The price of gasoline is established by many factors, two which are supply and demand, and the price of crude.
I have not found anyone or any where that has actually answered the question specifically. I wonder why? I agree with what you've stated and it's mostly in line with what I think and what apparently others think, but it surely seems there must be more to it as far as a set formula. Plus who exactly determines the formula?
The Commodities Market for a large part must set the prices?
OPEC has a lot of say in the price of crude.
Available supply effects the cost of gasoline but there certainly seems more to than that. I'm pleading ignorance and continue to be very curious exactly how the prices are determined. Per barrel cost on the Commodities Exchange seems the most evident, but I really don't know.
I know right now we have a lack of rigs in the Gulf of Mexica because drillers are getting at least double the daily rate in SA, Africa, and Asia. This surely leads to a shortage in domestic supply for the future.
Texas rig builders (including a growing number of Chinese firms) right now are covered up building and refurbing equipment going out of the country. Again, drilling is happening more overseas and probably helping drive up prices.
Someone??????

[058]

Actually it is believed that Mars is warming because it is in a warming phase in it's "solar wobble". Our Ice ages and warming trends are also influenced by our own "solar wobble", in addition to solar activity. "Greenhouse gasses" have always been thought to be a lesser factor in our warming/cooling cycles than "solar wobble" and solar activity. Galileo Galilei actually was the first to notice that climite warming was associated with increased sunspot activity.
P.S. I'm no expert, but I do have scientists in my family (my father and step father) and I did take climatology in college.OK, I'll accept that. Wobble or the Sun getting hotter, either/or. Point being is that the climate change is not man-made and beyond our control. The people that want to make it political are the ones that stand to profit from the hype. These same people want to control more of our lives and reap tax $$$$ from the revenue collected from taxation and the sale/trading of carbon credits. Funny how the phrase "Global warming" got dropped like a hot potato when someone brought up "Global cooling" and all the hype that went with that in the 1970s. Now is called "Climate Change"... covers all bases no matter what the weather does. If it rains on a day that it didn't 3 years ago then it must be "Climate Change" and we're all doomed. If it snowed in an area that usually doesn't get snow...its "Climate Change" and "We need to do something about it now before its too late" If there is a drought somewhere then it most definitly "Climate Change" and "greenhouse gasses" need to be eliminated ASAP. If Co2 is so bad then why does all plant life need it to convert to oxygen via photosynthesis? Did Algore address this in his blockbuster movie?.....I dunno, didn't see the movie, I didn't want to contribute to 'Global Warming'.....Sorry....'Climate Change' by driving my car to the theater.:D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I have not found anyone or any where that has actually answered the question specifically. I wonder why? I agree with what you've stated and it's mostly in line with what I think and what apparently others think, but it surely seems there must be more to it as far as a set formula. Plus who exactly determines the formula?
The Commodities Market for a large part must set the prices?
OPEC has a lot of say in the price of crude.
Available supply effects the cost of gasoline but there certainly seems more to than that. I'm pleading ignorance and continue to be very curious exactly how the prices are determined. Per barrel cost on the Commodities Exchange seems the most evident, but I really don't know.
I know right now we have a lack of rigs in the Gulf of Mexica because drillers are getting at least double the daily rate in SA, Africa, and Asia. This surely leads to a shortage in domestic supply for the future.
Texas rig builders (including a growing number of Chinese firms) right now are covered up building and refurbing equipment going out of the country. Again, drilling is happening more overseas and probably helping drive up prices.
Someone??????
Come on Tex. Since none of us know but you, please tell us. :rolleyes:
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=EM664&page=teacher

[TonkaDriver]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2894495]The price of gasoline is established by many factors, two which are supply and demand, and the price of crude.
Just for the record that is three, not two. (supply, demand, price of crude)
By the way, the commodities market sets the price. Speculators are running up the price. The quicker the oil companies recognize the opportunity that E85 represents the better. The infrastructure already exists for delivery to the public.
With E85 we could pull our oil off the world market and tell Hugo to pound sand as he is the largest single source of our imports. The only thing Libs would have to do is allow ANWAR to be drilled even though they can drill the oil from outside anwar.
Remember the opposition to the pipeline and the panic over the caribou herds? They have become a nuisance since the pipeline was built because of record numbers.
Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Just for the record that is three, not two. (supply, demand, price of crude)
By the way, the commodities market sets the price. Speculators are running up the price. The quicker the oil companies recognize the opportunity that E85 represents the better. The infrastructure already exists for delivery to the public.
With E85 we could pull our oil off the world market and tell Hugo to pound sand as he is the largest single source of our imports. The only thing Libs would have to do is allow ANWAR to be drilled even though they can drill the oil from outside anwar.
Remember the opposition to the pipeline and the panic over the caribou herds? They have become a nuisance since the pipeline was built because of record numbers.
Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail.
Sorry there Kurt. I've always thought of Supply and Demand as one issue, however, you are correct it is two.
Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail
You should have quit while you were ahead. :)

[Steve 1]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2894495]The price of gasoline is established by many factors, two which are supply and demand, and the price of crude.
Just for the record that is three, not two. (supply, demand, price of crude)
By the way, the commodities market sets the price. Speculators are running up the price. The quicker the oil companies recognize the opportunity that E85 represents the better. The infrastructure already exists for delivery to the public.
With E85 we could pull our oil off the world market and tell Hugo to pound sand as he is the largest single source of our imports. The only thing Libs would have to do is allow ANWAR to be drilled even though they can drill the oil from outside anwar.
Remember the opposition to the pipeline and the panic over the caribou herds? They have become a nuisance since the pipeline was built because of record numbers.
Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail.
"Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail."
I see the forum communist took this bait!

[eliminatedsprinter]

OK, I'll accept that. Wobble or the Sun getting hotter, either/or. Point being is that the climate change is not man-made and beyond our control. The people that want to make it political are the ones that stand to profit from the hype. These same people want to control more of our lives and reap tax $$$$ from the revenue collected from taxation and the sale/trading of carbon credits. Funny how the phrase "Global warming" got dropped like a hot potato when someone brought up "Global cooling" and all the hype that went with that in the 1970s. Now is called "Climate Change"... covers all bases no matter what the weather does. If it rains on a day that it didn't 3 years ago then it must be "Climate Change" and we're all doomed. If it snowed in an area that usually doesn't get snow...its "Climate Change" and "We need to do something about it now before its too late" If there is a drought somewhere then it most definitly "Climate Change" and "greenhouse gasses" need to be eliminated ASAP. If Co2 is so bad then why does all plant life need it to convert to oxygen via photosynthesis? Did Algore address this in his blockbuster movie?.....I dunno, didn't see the movie, I didn't want to contribute to 'Global Warming'.....Sorry....'Climate Change' by driving my car to the theater.:D
There are always demagogues who seek to exploit fear and hysteria for their own political or idealogical gain. It was no suprise to me at all, when the same folks who had always advocated more government control and limitations on individuals, industry, and commerce, jumped on the first hint of a theory, that gasses produced by industry and autos etc, might somhow be affecting the climate.
The fact is, that when a shameless, in your face, demagogue, like VP Gore, takes up a cause (no matter how superficially noble) it makes sceptics, like me, look at that cause with a high index of suspicion.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

"Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail."
I see the forum communist took this bait!
Please tell us Steve. What does your response have to do with politics or GW?

[Steve 1]

Please tell us Steve. What does your response have to do with politics or GW?
Read again what I wrote!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I see the forum communist took this bait!
Please tell us Steve. What does your response have to do with politics or GW?
Again, Steve ???

[Steve 1]

Please tell us Steve. What does your response have to do with politics or GW?
Again, Steve ???
What does being the forum Commie have to do with POLITICS ???

[ULTRA26 # 1]

What does being the forum Commie have to do with POLITICS ???
Nice!
The Price of Gasoline: What's Behind It?
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=EM664&page=teacher

[Steve 1]

Please tell us Steve. What does your response have to do with politics or GW?
Again, Steve ???
Is that it????
http://www.UploadYourImages.com/img/826241cocapuffs.jpg (http://www.UploadYourImages.com)

[Steve 1]

Nice!
The Price of Gasoline: What's Behind It?
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=EM664&page=teacher
Your flag!
http://www.UploadYourImages.com/img/684321commie_flag.jpg (http://www.UploadYourImages.com)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Is that it????
http://www.UploadYourImages.com/img/826241cocapuffs.jpg (http://www.UploadYourImages.com)
Please knock it off and get back on topic

[Steve 1]

Please knock it off and get back on topic
First off I am on topic, Secondly who the hell are you???

[ULTRA26 # 1]

First off I am on topic, Secondly who the hell are you???
Sure Steve

[AzMandella]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2894495]The price of gasoline is established by many factors, two which are supply and demand, and the price of crude.
Just for the record that is three, not two. (supply, demand, price of crude)
By the way, the commodities market sets the price. Speculators are running up the price. The quicker the oil companies recognize the opportunity that E85 represents the better. The infrastructure already exists for delivery to the public.
With E85 we could pull our oil off the world market and tell Hugo to pound sand as he is the largest single source of our imports. The only thing Libs would have to do is allow ANWAR to be drilled even though they can drill the oil from outside anwar.
Remember the opposition to the pipeline and the panic over the caribou herds? They have become a nuisance since the pipeline was built because of record numbers.
Libs opposing ANWAR drilling shows all of us that they want America to fail.
I don't know about the E85 delio. If people think the price of a gallon of gas is outa sight. It takes twice as much E85 to go the same distance as gas. and with E85 around 3 bucks a gallon thats the equvelent of 6 bucks a gal. NOt to mention that since all the corn farmers are selling to E85 makers and driving up the price of corn that is now making prices of milk,beef,pork and chicken, go up because those ranchers and farmers are having to pay higher prives for cornfeed. so it is actually costing even more to run an E85 car indirectly.

[Steve 1]

Sure Steve
http://www.UploadYourImages.com/img/343106liberals21.jpg (http://www.UploadYourImages.com)
http://www.UploadYourImages.com/img/661569liberal_moron.jpg (http://www.UploadYourImages.com)

[Schiada76]

[QUOTE=TonkaDriver;2894678]
I don't know about the E85 delio. If people think the price of a gallon of gas is outa sight. It takes twice as much E85 to go the same distance as gas. and with E85 around 3 bucks a gallon thats the equvelent of 6 bucks a gal. NOt to mention that since all the corn farmers are selling to E85 makers and driving up the price of corn that is now making prices of milk,beef,pork and chicken, go up because those ranchers and farmers are having to pay higher prives for cornfeed. so it is actually costing even more to run an E85 car indirectly.
Ethanol is BS, look at who THAT boondoggle benefits if you want to talk about getting bent over. Start with Archer Daniels Midland and ConAgra.:rolleyes:

[AzMandella]

[QUOTE=AzMandella;2895032]
Ethanol is BS, look at who THAT boondoggle benefits if you want to talk about getting bent over. Start with Archer Daniels Midland and ConAgra.:rolleyes:
Yeah one of my friends bought a E85 suburban and is pissed as hell that they never told him it was going to cost him twice as much to drive.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

It's my understanding that producing Ethanol from corn requires more energy than the product will produce. Or in other words, you can't produce a gallon of Ethanol, using the energy from a gallon of Ethanol.

[Sleeper CP]

:confused: It's my understanding that producing Ethanol from corn requires more energy that the product will produce. Or in other words, you can't produce a gallon of Ethanol, using the energy from a gallon of Ethanol.
Something like that. It would be stated in BTU's. But it does take more energy to produce Ethanol then it takes to produce gasoline. And the energy has to come from somewhere and if it is from coal you just used up more energy and added more greenhouse gases than the benifit you wish to gain from the Ethanol:mad: It is indeed a boondoggle. Sybolizume (sp)over substance
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

Come on Tex. Since none of us know but you, please tell us. :rolleyes:
I have asked a question that I don't have a specific answer for and stated as such. Your lesson site is nothing new and goes directly back to my question.
Roll your eyes and exhibit your sarcasm if that's all you have, but I've posted a legitimate question far more on topic than your duel with Steve.
I thought someone that proffesses such concern for energy costs would perhaps take how pricing is established more seriously. Apparently I was wrong.

[Old Texan]

By the way, the commodities market sets the price. Speculators are running up the price.
The Commodities Market is a major factor in the prices I agree. But is this the "main" piece of the formula?
OPEC claims they are just following the "trend" but yet have a big hand in how much crude is released for world usage. This has a major effect on the supply side. Manipulation? China and India have fast growing demands and definitely effect the supply side but how much does this directly effect gas prices in regards to the futures?
The 2005 hurricane season had such an extreme effect on prices it leads me to suspect manipulation by either the oil companies or the markets. It's just hard to put a finger on any specifics.
My opinion on E85 is it isn't an answer to anything about rising prices. It is just an alternative to fossil fuel and not a longterm practical one in spite of the efforts of ConAgra and Archer to build numerous refining facilities.

[Schiada76]

It's my understanding that producing Ethanol from corn requires more energy that the product will produce. Or in other words, you can't produce a gallon of Ethanol, using the energy from a gallon of Ethanol.
It's a HUGE scam by the scum bag politicians and BIG AG. The leftwing oil company hating loons love it because they're too stupid to understand Ultra's post.:D
In the meantime the tree hugging America haters are blocking all proposed offshore LPG terminals here in the state of Fruits and Nuts.:rolleyes: :mad:

[centerhill condor]

fourth and final UN report out today...these guys really like hearing themselves talk.
All of it is statistics...chance of such and such.
Me thinks a couple of Persian A bombs will help raise the temp much more than MMGW. Question of leadership..much easier to invent little green men than deal with the devil we can see.
You may not be aware the global warming that we have today began sometime ago and killed "giant mammals"...mankind was able to adapt and conquer the new "warmer" world.
Does no one recall the dust bowl of just 80 years ago? Was that MMGW or was it something else? and how did we end it? or did it just "go away"?
CC

[Propster]

It's my understanding that producing Ethanol from corn requires more energy than the product will produce. Or in other words, you can't produce a gallon of Ethanol, using the energy from a gallon of Ethanol.
Just more BS from the oil companies. What do you expect, they are oil men, not farmers. From what I understand, it takes a gallon of oil to bring a gallon of oil to market if you figure the cost to drill, pump, collect, ship, refine, pump, truck the fuel. While it is obvious that it takes a lot of energy to bring oil to market, you wont hear it from them.
How does it work? They start with 2 gallons of oil!
Ethanol will get cheaper and more effecient to produce with the economy of scale and when more types of fermenting material come on line, including algea and ag waste technologies. Bio-diesel is beginning to be a big player too, as it less energy dependant to produce than alcohol. Brazil is a good example, they decided to wean themselves from imported oil during the last oil embargo. All of their vehicles are required to be able to run on locally produced ethanol and biodiesel.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Just more BS from the oil companies. What do you expect, they are oil men, not farmers. From what I understand, it takes a gallon of oil to bring a gallon of oil to market if you figure the cost to drill, pump, collect, ship, refine, pump, truck the fuel. While it is obvious that it takes a lot of energy to bring oil to market, you wont hear it from them.
How does it work? They start with 2 gallons of oil!
Ethanol will get cheaper and more effecient to produce with the economy of scale and when more types of fermenting material come on line, including algea and ag waste technologies. Bio-diesel is beginning to be a big player too, as it less energy dependant to produce than alcohol. Brazil is a good example, they decided to wean themselves from imported oil during the last oil embargo. All of their vehicles are required to be able to run on locally produced ethanol and biodiesel.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us.
From Wik
Producing corn is very energy intensive, and uses fossil fuels in virtually every step of the crop cycle: transporting and planting the seeds; operating farm equipment; making and applying fertilizer; and transporting the corn to market. Fertilizer, herbicide, and insecticide production consume the most fossil fuels. Fossil-fuel based fertilizers also contaminate the soil and groundwater, but they can not be replaced by natural fertilizer: there are not enough animals to provide the fertilizer to grow the corn necessary to produce all the grain-based ethanol needed to run American cars. And the herbicides and pesticides necessary to grow corn at an industrial scale leach into the groundwater, too.
There is an ongoing debate concerning the amount of energy it takes to produce ethanol from corn. For example, it takes energy equivalent to about one gallon of gasoline to make four pounds of nitrogen, the main ingredient in most fertilizer, and every one of the more than 15 million acres (61,000 km²) planted in corn is dusted with about 58 pounds of nitrogen. Given the variety of factors that go into growing corn, estimates vary widely about the amount of energy used: one estimate contends that it would require 1.5 gallons of ethanol to provide the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. Others challenge these conclusions, asserting that this analysis is based on obsolete data and miscalculated key energy values and does not account for the useful by-products, such as animal feed, of making ethanol; taking all that into account, ethanol could provide up to 40% more energy than is consumed in making it.
BTW, I am all for the use of enthanol and every other non-oil based energy. I view the US as needing to do everything that it can to kick it's dependence on foreign oil.
The issue of methanol production is debatable and I have not taken one position or another.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us
That makes two of us. :)

[Schiada76]

From Wik
Producing corn is very energy intensive, and uses fossil fuels in virtually every step of the crop cycle: transporting and planting the seeds; operating farm equipment; making and applying fertilizer; and transporting the corn to market. Fertilizer, herbicide, and insecticide production consume the most fossil fuels. Fossil-fuel based fertilizers also contaminate the soil and groundwater, but they can not be replaced by natural fertilizer: there are not enough animals to provide the fertilizer to grow the corn necessary to produce all the grain-based ethanol needed to run American cars. And the herbicides and pesticides necessary to grow corn at an industrial scale leach into the groundwater, too.
There is an ongoing debate concerning the amount of energy it takes to produce ethanol from corn. For example, it takes energy equivalent to about one gallon of gasoline to make four pounds of nitrogen, the main ingredient in most fertilizer, and every one of the more than 15 million acres (61,000 km²) planted in corn is dusted with about 58 pounds of nitrogen. Given the variety of factors that go into growing corn, estimates vary widely about the amount of energy used: one estimate contends that it would require 1.5 gallons of ethanol to provide the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. Others challenge these conclusions, asserting that this analysis is based on obsolete data and miscalculated key energy values and does not account for the useful by-products, such as animal feed, of making ethanol; taking all that into account, ethanol could provide up to 40% more energy than is consumed in making it.
BTW, I am all for the use of enthanol and every other non-oil based energy. I view the US as needing to do everything that it can to kick it's dependence on foreign oil.
The issue of methanol production is debatable and I have not taken one position or another.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us
That makes two of us. :)
That makes three.
Drill ANWR and offshore NOW!:D

[AzMandella]

Just more BS from the oil companies. What do you expect, they are oil men, not farmers. From what I understand, it takes a gallon of oil to bring a gallon of oil to market if you figure the cost to drill, pump, collect, ship, refine, pump, truck the fuel. While it is obvious that it takes a lot of energy to bring oil to market, you wont hear it from them.
How does it work? They start with 2 gallons of oil!
Ethanol will get cheaper and more effecient to produce with the economy of scale and when more types of fermenting material come on line, including algea and ag waste technologies. Bio-diesel is beginning to be a big player too, as it less energy dependant to produce than alcohol. Brazil is a good example, they decided to wean themselves from imported oil during the last oil embargo. All of their vehicles are required to be able to run on locally produced ethanol and biodiesel.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us.
YOu better do some more research. Yeah Brazil was trying to wean themselves of gasoline but it aint working. There they use sugar caine to produce ethanol. But they are now finding that they cannot raise sugar caine fast enought o replace what they use. So they are starting to run out of sugar cane. One study that I saw showed it would be near imposible for america to become completely dependent on ethanol as we could not grow enough fast enough to meet the national demand. Lets not forget that it takes twice as much ethanol as fuel to equal the same energy. They basicly said we would have to convert half the nation to crops. Not to mention the fact that the little ethanol we already use is starting to drive up the price of beef,poultry,pork,and dairy products because the ranchers and farmers are having to pay more for corn feed to feed the livestock because the corn farmers are getting top dollar to sell it to make ethanol. Ethanol is a good idea from the outside but is not good in the longrun. I just hate to see people forced to change to an alternative that is not a cure. Just another bandaid till we come up with the cure. I'd be more than happy to quit driving my fossil fuel vehicles if you could get the Liberal eco freaks and politicians to push nuclear for home and residential and hydrgen fusion for transportation. Hell most the nuclear technology is from the U.S but it's the rest of the world that's starting to use it.

[centerhill condor]

and we're all still here? I was under the impression this would be one of the worst hurricane season on the charts due to man made global warming and unless something happens in the next 20 hours we'll have yet another quiet season...is the computer model wrong?
And if we can't predict the weather one year accurately how on God's green earth can we do it 100 years out?
Just curious.
And on another note, Did you notice when the Gov of GA prayed for rain...it rained!
CC

[Old Texan]

and we're all still here? I was under the impression this would be one of the worst hurricane season on the charts due to man made global warming and unless something happens in the next 20 hours we'll have yet another quiet season...is the computer model wrong?
And if we can't predict the weather one year accurately how on God's green earth can we do it 100 years out?
Just curious.
And on another note, Did you notice when the Gov of GA prayed for rain...it rained!
CC
Actually God was involved. He looked down and saw that Cynthia McKinney was in town and just got her hair done up all big and puffy......Good time for a cloudburst.:devil:
Who says God ain't got a righteous sense of humor, eh?:D

[Moneypitt]

After the Atlantic huricane season ended with fewer storms, will the sky is falling group blame that on MMGW?? Here is an article from todays paper that has some new (to me) info about this farce.......MP
Al Gore, global warming and convenient untruths
By Deroy Murdock
deroy.murdock@gmail.com
Monday, December 3, 2007
When Nobel laureate Al Gore collects his peace prize in Oslo on Dec. 10, he should tell those gathered exactly what he meant when he remarked about global warming: "I believe it is appropriate to have an overrepresentation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are."
"Overrepresentation"? Is that anything like "misrepresentation"?
Gore's approach infects the debate and even the methodology of so-called global warming. From the former vice president to unseen academics, some who clamor for statist answers to this alleged climate crisis employ dodgy measurement techniques, while others embrace hype and fear-mongering to promote massive government intervention to combat an entirely questionable challenge.
Worse yet, this applies to objective researchers, not just opinionated activists. For starters, U.S. temperature data suffer from the "garbage in, garbage out" syndrome.
As surfacestations.org meteorologist Anthony Watts discovered, numerous NASA and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration temperature sensors are situated not in open fields at uniform heights, as required, but near parking lots, beside central-air exhaust ducts and even above barbecue grills.
Stranger still, NASA adopted a new technique in 2000 to calculate average annual temperatures. NASA essentially gave a 0.27 degrees Fahrenheit (0.15 degrees Centigrade) "bonus" to readings for the last seven years.
However, Canadian statistical analyst Steve McIntyre of ClimateAudit.org caught NASA's mathematical mistake. After the space agency admitted and corrected its glitch, America's warmest year shifted from 1998 to 1934. Global-warming enthusiasts should clarify why America was hotter during the less-developed Great Depression, yet cooler in purportedly carbon-choked 1998.
"The alarmists who trumpeted recent years as warmest ever' in the United States (by a mere tenth of a degree) now dismiss this reversal — 2000 and subsequent years being cooler than 1900 — as just being a tenth of a degree or so," said Competitive Enterprise Institute scholar Chris Horner. "Well, either that's a big deal whichever direction it falls, or it isn't. Which time are you lying?"
Meanwhile, the British High Court of Justice ruled Oct. 10 that Gore's picture, "An Inconvenient Truth," peddles convenient untruths. The court ordered that British secondary schools could present Gore's movie only if students receive a guidance note distancing the Education Department from "the more extreme views of Mr. Gore" and admitting there are two sides, not one, to global warming.
University of California-Santa Barbara professor emeritus Daniel Botkin recently lamented in The Wall Street Journal that some of his warming-oriented colleagues believe "the only way to get our society to change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe, and that, therefore, it is all right and even necessary for scientists to exaggerate. Wolves deceive their prey, don't they?' one said to me recently."
Oslo's applause notwithstanding, egregious errors, distortions and lies have no place in what is supposedly unbiased scientific inquiry regarding one of Earth's most controversial questions.
— Deroy Murdock writes for Scripps Howard News Service. E-mail him at deroy.murdock@gmail.com.

[centerhill condor]

"Overrepresentation"? Is that anything like "misrepresentation"?
.
It depends on what the definition of "is" is...
Go try that overrepresentation crap under oath...oh, my bad...nuthin' happens if you're a liberal democrat..
CC

[Schiada76]

New Study Explodes Human-Global Warming Story
Monday, December 10, 2007 9:55 AM
By: Philip V. Brennan
As much of the U.S. is being blasted by vicious ice storms, a blockbuster report published in a prestigious scientific journal insists that the evidence shows that climate warming is both natural and unstoppable and that carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant.
Writing in the International Journal of Climatology of the Royal Meteorological Society, professor David H. Douglass (of the University of Rochester), professor John R. Christy (of the University of Alabama), Benjamin D. Pearson and professor S. Fred Singer (of the University of Virginia) report that observed patterns of temperature changes ("fingerprints") over the last 30 years disagree with what greenhouse models predict and can better be explained by natural factors, such as solar variability.
The conclusion is that climate change is "unstoppable" and cannot be affected or modified by controlling the emission of greenhouse gases, such as CO2, as is proposed in current legislation.
According to Dr. Douglass: “The observed pattern of warming, comparing surface and atmospheric temperature trends, does not show the characteristic fingerprint associated with greenhouse warming. The inescapable conclusion is that the human contribution is not significant and that observed increases in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases make only a negligible contribution to climate warming.”
One of his co-authors, Dr. John Christy, added: “Satellite data and independent balloon data agree that atmospheric warming trends do not exceed those of the surface. Greenhouse models, on the other hand, demand that atmospheric trend values be 2-3 times greater.
"We have good reason, therefore, to believe that current climate models greatly overestimate the effects of greenhouse gases. Satellite observations suggest that GH models ignore negative feedbacks, produced by clouds and by water vapor, that diminish the warming effects of carbon dioxide.”
And the third co-author, Dr. S. Fred Singer, said: “The current warming trend is simply part of a natural cycle of climate warming and cooling that has been seen in ice cores, deep-sea sediments, stalagmites, etc., and published in hundreds of papers in peer-reviewed journals.
"The mechanism for producing such cyclical climate changes is still under discussion; but they are most likely caused by variations in the solar wind and associated magnetic fields that affect the flux of cosmic rays incident on the earth’s atmosphere.
"In turn, such cosmic rays are believed to influence cloudiness and thereby control the amount of sunlight reaching the earth’s surface* and thus the climate.
"Our research demonstrates that the ongoing rise of atmospheric CO2 has only a minor influence on climate change. We must conclude, therefore, that attempts to control CO2 emissions are ineffective and pointless — but very costly."
That's it ladies, THE DEBATE IS OVER!
You can return to your regulary scheduled hysteria over aids, DDT, overpopulation, oil and all evil consevative businesses.:D :D

[Moneypitt]

That's it ladies, THE DEBATE IS OVER!
You can return to your regulary scheduled hysteria over aids, DDT, overpopulation, oil and all evil consevative businesses. [QUOTE]
You're kidding right?....This debate will never be over. If we had an ice incrusted North America, the algore cult would still say it was because of MMGW.........To admit they are wrong now is something that just won't happen. The algore group will go to their graves saying it is all caused by MMGW........."Screw real science, we can swindle millions from the sheep of the world and they'll never wake up or figure out how we did it."...
This "debate" was over before it started for most of us. For the others, this will mean nothing, as usual...........Ignorance is bliss..........MP

[Old Texan]

So does Al have to give back his Nobel?:devil:

[sangervdrive]

[B]Ignorance is bliss..........MP
That should be Gores platform if he ever runs for anything again!;)

[Schiada76]

So does Al have to give back his Nobel?:devil:
I'm not sure.:idea:
He said something idiotic in his acceptance speach about how it was time to wage peace on the planet.:confused: :rolleyes: :sleeping:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Another's view point
Global warming will step up after 2009: scientists
By Deborah Zabarenko, Environment Correspondent
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Global warming is forecast to set in with a vengeance after 2009, with at least half of the five following years expected to be hotter than 1998, the warmest year on record, scientists reported on Thursday.
Climate experts have long predicted a general warming trend over the 21st century spurred by the greenhouse effect, but this new study gets more specific about what is likely to happen in the decade that started in 2005.
To make this kind of prediction, researchers at Britain's Met Office -- which deals with meteorology -- made a computer model that takes into account such natural phenomena as the El Nino pattern in the Pacific Ocean and other fluctuations in ocean circulation and heat content.
A forecast of the next decade is particularly useful, because climate could be dominated over this period by these natural changes, rather than human-caused global warming, study author Douglas Smith said by telephone.
In research published in the journal Science, Smith and his colleagues predicted that the next three or four years would show little warming despite an overall forecast that saw warming over the decade.
"There is ... particular interest in the coming decade, which represents a key planning horizon for infrastructure upgrades, insurance, energy policy and business development," Smith and his co-authors noted.
The real heat will start after 2009, they said.
Until then, the natural forces will offset the expected warming caused by human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels, which releases the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide.
"HINDCASTS" FOR THE FUTURE
"There is ... particular interest in the coming decade, which represents a key planning horizon for infrastructure upgrades, insurance, energy policy and business development," Smith and his co-authors noted.
To check their models, the scientists used a series of "hindcasts" -- forecasts that look back in time -- going back to 1982, and compared what their models predicted with what actually occurred.
Factoring in the natural variability of ocean currents and temperature fluctuations yielded an accurate picture, the researchers found. This differed from other models which mainly considered human-caused climate change.
"Over the 100-year timescale, the main change is going to come from greenhouse gases that will dominate natural variability, but in the coming 10 years the natural internal variability is comparable," Smith said.
In another climate change article in the online journal Science Express, U.S. researchers reported that soot from industry and forest fires had a dramatic impact on the Arctic climate, starting around the time of the Industrial Revolution.
Industrial pollution brought a seven-fold increase in soot -- also known as black carbon -- in Arctic snow during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, scientists at the Desert Research Institute found.
Soot, mostly from burning coal, reduces the reflectivity of snow and ice, letting Earth's surface absorb more solar energy and possibly resulting in earlier snow melts and exposure of much darker underlying soil, rock and sea ice. This in turn led to warming across much of the Arctic region.
At its height from 1906 to 1910, estimated warming from soot on Arctic snow was eight times that of the pre-industrial era, the researchers said
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0837368420070809?feedType=RSS&rpc=22&sp=true
A link to the EPA Website
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/road.html

[Moneypitt]

Like I said, it'll never be over..........MP
PS 1934 WAS HOTTER than 1998 if real numbers are used......If you look up "real numbers" in algores dictionary you'll find NOTHING.......

[Schiada76]

Like I said, it'll never be over..........MP
PS 1934 WAS HOTTER than 1998 if real numbers are used......If you look up "real numbers" in algores dictionary you'll find NOTHING.......
But Ray, didn't you enjoy the Algores disciples post?
He actually quoted some idiots that use the word "hindcast".:rolleyes: :)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Like I said, it'll never be over..........MP
PS 1934 WAS HOTTER than 1998 if real numbers are used......If you look up "real numbers" in algores dictionary you'll find NOTHING.......
:D :D
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/recordtemp2005.html

[eliminatedsprinter]

I'm not sure.:idea:
He said something idiotic in his acceptance speach about how it was time to wage peace on the planet.:confused: :rolleyes: :sleeping:
His whole speech was idiotic. He is such a drama queen it's embarrassing to watch....

[Cas]

bump

[Blown 472]

bump
A year old? wow, nice to see ya back.

[Cas]

A year old? wow, nice to see ya back.
thanks. I just needed to bring it back to the top so it could be easily found by someone looking for it.
how ya been?

[Blown 472]

Good and you? I wish this global warming would start, ****ing snowing again and was 10 below last night and it is only dec.

[Cas]

yea, no kidding! Here in No California where I live, it's been getting down into the 20's at night. Not as cold as your area but it's pretty damn cold for around here.
Doing good also.