Engine Prices

[KineticoH20]

Now that winter is upon us and lots of people are contimplating winter mods to thier boats. I have been wondering why after market engines have to cost 25k to 35 for a 600hp EFI engine. I know builders need to make money but when someone says they have 30k into a 600hp engine it makes me say hmmmm. Is there nobody that makes a decent 600hp engine for under 20k? I would love to hear others thought on the matter. I called Pfaff today and was quoted 30k for the 600efi not installed without tax:jawdrop:

[Moneypitt]

Now that winter is upon us and lots of people are contimplating winter mods to thier boats. I have been wondering why after market engines have to cost 25k to 35 for a 600hp EFI engine. I know builders need to make money but when someone says they have 30k into a 600hp engine it makes me say hmmmm. Is there nobody that makes a decent 600hp engine for under 20k? I would love to hear others thought on the matter. I called Pfaff today and was quoted 30k for the 600efi not installed without tax:jawdrop:
My thoughts on the matter?
You can pay it now, or pay it later......Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go????......... Build it yourself or stay on the beach............You can learn an awful lot for 30K.............Build it right or build it again...........If it was easy, everyone would be doing it..........Real ***boats don't have hatches.................OR tribal flames.....Enough thoughts?..............MP

[WishIknew]

Check this guy out Obnoxious001 on the boards !!!!!!!!!!

[Havasu1986]

Real ***boats don't have hatches.................OR tribal flames.....Enough thoughts?..............MP
But chicks don't dig those type of boats. :eek: :D

[scooooter7]

:idea: It's real simple, call a Teague, Pfaff, Brummett, Peto, Sterling, Zul, Boostpower, GT and ask what brand components they use for block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, intake, carb, ignition, gaskets, bearings, balancer, exhaust for your 600hp motor, then go price those items from your favorite source, once you have those numbers, then you need to figure in all the machining & balancing & build time & dyno time they put into those engine packages and you'll find that you won't get one done for any less than 20-25k, minimum !! try it you'll see.:idea:
Then contact Obnoxious001 on the boards. He'll do you fair and square. And he's right up the street from you.

[TOBTEK]

I know where you can get a fresh $ 60,000.00 ++ GT 588ci EFI quad rotor motor WITH 6,000.00 Stelling headers, and a set of tail pipes for just a tat over 30K:D

[Moneypitt]

But chicks don't dig those type of boats. :eek: :D
Can't argue with the truth..:D :D........ But do chicks dig the owners of those boats,:rolleyes: or their money?:idea: ................
And the part about prices for the componants is dead on........Unfortunatly, it takes a certain amount of experience and skill to make a box of parts into an engine, and a great deal of skill to make them live........Look at all the flaming threads about equipment failures, expensive equipment failures.........MP

[WishIknew]

Then contact Obnoxious001 on the boards. He'll do you fair and square. And he's right up the street from you.
And you dont have to pay for a new tilt up with a freeway view:eek: :eek:

[finsfan4life]

On top of that, I am sure u all heard new engines are increasing 2 to 3k in prices due to the new catylatic converter requirements...

[WishIknew]

On top of that, I am sure u all heard new engines are increasing 2 to 3k in prices due to the new catylatic converter requirements...
Is that on new only???????

[Moneypitt]

Is that on new only???????
No, anyboat with tribal flames will have to have a cat converter.....Some will need two, plus an algore carbon offset certificate.........MP
Seriously, come out to Parker Thanksgiving weekend and watch the Phaff motors run in the K boat and SS......Then decide how fast you really want to go...And what you want to spend.........MP

[obnoxious001]

WishIknew and Scooter,, thanks guys.
I have assembled engines for one of the big names that Huffpower listed, as well as working for a couple of other extremely well known marine engine assemblers, and marine parts dealers back to the late 70's. I am pretty low key, don't go out of my way to drop names, but happy to give people my "references" by PM.
I have built quite a few expensive engines, worth up to $40-$50k also, but am capable of assembling a nice engine that will last without busting the bank also.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/504/1318_x_10_black_background.jpg

[DeltaSigBoater]

My thoughts on the matter?
You can pay it now, or pay it later......Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go????......... Build it yourself or stay on the beach............You can learn an awful lot for 30K.............Build it right or build it again...........If it was easy, everyone would be doing it..........Real ***boats don't have hatches.................OR tribal flames.....Enough thoughts?..............MP
But chicks don't dig those type of boats. :eek: :D
They used to :idea:

[C-2]

Then contact Obnoxious001 on the boards. He'll do you fair and square. And he's right up the street from you.
+3 on Obnoxious001

[uLtRADeNniS]

But chicks don't dig those type of boats. :eek: :D
they don't huh?

[Kilrtoy]

THEY ARE A FU CKING SCAM
PERIOD............................................ ...........................
how in the hell does a viper motor cost almost the same as a complete viper car....
SCAM

[uLtRADeNniS]

THEY ARE A FU CKING SCAM
PERIOD............................................ ...........................
how in the hell does a viper motor cost almost the same as a complete viper car....
SCAM
DING DING DING!!!!!!
I cant agree more! I strongly believe that Viper motors and 525, 600 Mercs are a WASTE of money! (unless your offshore racing!) Go engine builder....enough said!;) :D

[Kilrtoy]

DING DING DING!!!!!!
I cant agree more! I strongly believe that Viper motors and 525, 600 Mercs are a WASTE of money! (unless your offshore racing!) Go engine builder....enough said!;) :D
THEY ARE SCAM ALSO...
I know, I know
marine this, marine that...
BULLSHIT
600HP super chevy 8K turnkey and two year warranty

[scarabrick2]

We have a guy who does engines also for the big marine shops in so cal.
Just did my friends 502 rebuild to a 540..... 800 + pounds torque and 800+ HP at 5600 rpm's.
Search " 502 rebuild " but VEGASHALLETT
Lets just say, he gets a lot of buisness from GT, pfaff, and others.
If you want a good deal and motor PM me. I'll get you his info....
My friends motor is only 800 + hp with a little side mounted whipple but built to handle the twin whipple top mount set up. Yah thats over 1000+ hp.
Build the engine strong(short block) and top if off with whatever you want.

[OGShocker]

I know where you can get a fresh $ 60,000.00 ++ GT 588ci EFI quad rotor motor WITH 6,000.00 Stelling headers, and a set of tail pipes for just a tat over 30K:D
He'd have to spend another $25K to make it right.:idea:
:D

[BADBLOWN572]

Real ***boats don't have hatches.................OR tribal flames.....
So because a boat is not a circle race boat, or a drag boat, it is not a ***boat? Moneypitt, would you consider a twin turbo Schiada a ***boat? I know of plenty of boat with either tribal flames, or hatches that definitely fall into pretty much ANYONE's ***boat Category.
I have read a lot of your posts and it seems that if it is not a backyard project, a restoration, or a flat bottom you do not see it as being a "***boat." Would you consider the boats that I am building as a ***boat? :eek:

[BADBLOWN572]

I can deliver a good 600h.p. motor for under $20K. I have been teaming up with Shaver Engineering up in Torrance to put together a marine package. Right now I am the only one that can get their marine motors. I have been more than impressed with what I have seen & tested! Shaver is known for their sprint car motors, indy car motors, etc... If you go and search the Internet for Shaver Engineering or Ron Shaver, I am sure that you will be impressed. :)
The motor is a 509cid engine and Shaver is offering a 1 year 100 hour warranty on the motor. A 2nd year extra 100 hour warranty is available for an extra $1K. I can come in just under $20K for the motor (EFI) without headers, but with everything else ready to drop in the boat.
Here are a couple of pictures of the one that I put in our red boat. This model is has a carb, but EFI is not a problem. :)
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43095&stc=1&d=1195056489
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43096&stc=1&d=1195056489

[mbrown2]

Would you consider the boats that I am building as a ***boat? :eek:
I would....
These ol' schoolers think if you can't burn your leg on an open header it is not a hot boat...literally......no hot pipes to burn legs, no hot boat.

[scarabrick2]

Looks nice.....
Put some braided hose on that bad boy..
The black green stripe has to go.......
Not a bad price.... 600 hp is really not that hard to make.
How much for say 800 hp efi ???

[BADBLOWN572]

Looks nice.....
Put some braided hose on that bad boy..
The black green stripe has to go.......
Not a bad price.... 600 hp is really not that hard to make.
How much for say 800 hp efi ???
SS Braided is an option. This picture shows a very base motor. Does come with the MSD box, Distrib, Alternator, Starter, Raw Water Pump, Coupler, Bellhousing, spark arrestor, etc... All that you would have to do is to pull out an existing motor, hook up exhaust, and drop this one in. Will also plug into the standard 9pin GM Plug. :)
We are doing our 750 package. Not an 800. We have not built one with EFI yet, but probably somewhere high 20's or very low 30's with EFI.

[Moneypitt]

So because a boat is not a circle race boat, or a drag boat, it is not a ***boat? Moneypitt, would you consider a twin turbo Schiada a ***boat? I know of plenty of boat with either tribal flames, or hatches that definitely fall into pretty much ANYONE's ***boat Category.
I have read a lot of your posts and it seems that if it is not a backyard project, a restoration, or a flat bottom you do not see it as being a "***boat." Would you consider the boats that I am building as a ***boat? :eek:
I would have to see and hear one first, since I never have.:idea: I would agree there are some very powerful boats out there, showroom stuff that has been nicely appointed. That said, do you consider a Lambo a "hotrod"? Is a Porche, off the showroom floor, a hotrod?......To me a hotrod is a "backyard" project. An old coupe or roadster, a 55 Chevy with more power than appointments. Does Codington build hotrods? NO.......He builds customs......Is a circle or drag boat a ***boat, loosly, yes. IMO, a ***boat has an exposed engine, no stereo, and many hours of hard work done by the owner. There are far more ***boats that never see a race course than those that do....As I have said before, all the money in the world doesn't make it a ***boat, and the idea of the owner taking it in for service sorta defies the description "***boat".......This debate has been beaten into the ground before with no real agreement reached. We all have our own idea what a ***boat is, and that is fine.......Maybe a new discription, "high performance showroom boat" would be a better name for the Corvettes and Porches of the marine industry......Then again, maybe I am just envious of the ballers that can afford the type of boats you build. When I get rich and famous I may change my attitude and order two..........It is all good...........MP

[rrrr]

........ "high performance showroom boat".......
LOL!! :D

[BADBLOWN572]

I would have to see and hear one first, since I never have.:idea: I would agree there are some very powerful boats out there, showroom stuff that has been nicely appointed. That said, do you consider a Lambo a "hotrod"? Is a Porche, off the showroom floor, a hotrod?......To me a hotrod is a "backyard" project. An old coupe or roadster, a 55 Chevy with more power than appointments. Does Codington build hotrods? NO.......He builds customs......Is a circle or drag boat a ***boat, loosly, yes. IMO, a ***boat has an exposed engine, no stereo, and many hours of hard work done by the owner. There are far more ***boats that never see a race course than those that do....As I have said before, all the money in the world doesn't make it a ***boat, and the idea of the owner taking it in for service sorta defies the description "***boat".......This debate has been beaten into the ground before with no real agreement reached. We all have our own idea what a ***boat is, and that is fine.......Maybe a new discription, "high performance showroom boat" would be a better name for the Corvettes and Porches of the marine industry......Then again, maybe I am just envious of the ballers that can afford the type of boats you build. When I get rich and famous I may change my attitude and order two..........It is all good...........MP
Ok. I see your point and I respect your opinion, but I think that you are looking at "***boats" in a very limited scope. I have read many of your posts and have seen you make comments that could be considered "putting down" or "discrediting" many boats that you would not consider a "***boat." Those boats have owners and their owners hopefully love the boat and would consider it a "***boat."
I partially agree with a lot of what you say, but I also disagree in many ways too. For example, my dream "river/lake" boat would be one of my DCM cruisers with a 704cid 1,000+ h.p. naturally aspirated V-drive. If I left it at that, you would probably consider it a "***boat." However, my dream boat would have full interior, motor under the hatch, and a bumping stereo. I do like having creature comforts in my boats. It makes them more user friendly and will allow me to take multiple people with me to also enjoy the party. So, the boat would start off as a "***boat" in your opinion, but by the end of the day, it probably wouldn't. I want a boat that looks like Grandpa's cruiser until you pull up next to it and it blows your doors off. :) Does a hatch and/or stereo make it any less of a "***boat?" To me, not a chance.
It is also pretty clear that you go to either Needles, lower river, or other places where there is minimal traffic and smooth conditions. Your "***boat" would not work well at places like Parker or Havasu. I have spent many of summers going to Parker with a Biesemeyer K boat. That is the LAST boat that I would use out there on a weekend. The ride punishes you! Many of the ***boats in Parker/Havasu would not work well where you are at. So, a person needs to cater the type of boat they purchase/build/restore/etc... to the type of boating that they are doing. None of which discounts the other, but tailors the boat to the boating of the customer.
I would just say to be very mindful of the way you are coming across. :) I would consider each and every one of the boats that I build as being a "***boat." They are custom tailored to the customer and built from scratch. Just because they have a 350 with an I/O in them doesn't eliminate them from the "***boat" category.

[Dave C]

so true... :D I agree with the Hotrod analogy too.
I just don't think we have a moniker to differentiate the two.... and probably should.
Maybe a new discription, "high performance showroom boat" would be a better name for the Corvettes and Porches of the marine industry......
IMO the guys that buy the "tribal flame boats" and strip them down to rebuild it themselves have a "hot rod" also. They are not very common but they are out there and some are ever bit as customized as the "exposed engine" boats... Hell some of us have even been known to swap motors between the two ;) ;)

[Dave C]

getting back to prices..... We build motors for our cars and use ever bit of quality and HP in them for much less $$$$ than our damn boat motors. But we don't have to buy all the extra crap that goes in the boat.
One of the reasons for the difference is all the crap that goes on the marine motor. So factor in exhaust, mounts, coolers, pumps, pulleys, lines, linkage, induction, electronics, etc. etc. EFI parts are a couple of grand.
all this extra crap adds up quick. If you are not careful you can spend $8,000+ before you even buy a long block :eek: :eek:
However with that said once the marine motor goes over a certain price then one is just throwing good money after bad..

[BADBLOWN572]

all this extra crap adds up quick. If you are not careful you can spend $8,000+ before you even buy a long block :eek: :eek:
Agreed 100%.

[Dave C]

and for that matter the older boats don't have half the crap the new ones have.....
coolerS (plural), jacketed exhaust, different bellhousings & mounts, brackets, pumps, pulleys, blah blah ..... all overpriced too.:mad: plus the older stuff is cheaper because it has been massed produced for 30+ years and some of it is standarized.
I guess if there wasn't any money in all these extra parts Rex Marine would have more time to post here. ;)
Agreed 100%.
I priced this out several times. Say you bought a ZZ572 w/ Carb (good motor) NOT including the price of the motor itself it would cost me $8,500 to rig it and install it (myself) in my boat. That's just parts and NO warranty. That doing things cheaply as possible.
If I wanted to get some bling I would need different exhaust, braided lines, blah blah... add thousands.:eek:
ahhh but what the hell do I know... I've only done this 4 times

[uLtRADeNniS]

THEY ARE SCAM ALSO...
I know, I know
marine this, marine that...
BULLSHIT
600HP super chevy 8K turnkey and two year warranty
Exactly... Why would someone pay $40k, $50k and up for a Merc or Viper motor, when you can go visit a top notch engine builder... and walk out with a reliable blower motor that makes 1000hp and still runs on pump gas!

[Moneypitt]

Badblown and Dave C, You both have far more experience than me in the marine end of motorsports, or maybe even all motorsports. Your ideas, opinions, and services are valuable to the boating public. I must admit there is more than one way to skin a cat..........I like your sleeper boat idea, big heavy, well appointed, Screamer!!!:sqeyes: ..........Kinda like a 57 Mercury sedan with a dual quad Lincolin engine..........Typical creature comfort car of the 50s, but able to show most of the T Birds the taillights once it got wound up........Boats are boats, and boaters are boaters. We need to stand united to protect our passion from being regulated out of existence.......The people you serve are the people that get active in groups when their recreation is threatened. The people like me are outlaws hanging back in the shadows hoping no one sees us and our un muffled exhaust........But together we are all ***boaters willing to help a fellow boater out of a jam if necessary.....MP

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I would....
These ol' schoolers think if you can't burn your leg on an open header it is not a hot boat...literally......no hot pipes to burn legs, no hot boat.
Can I use that? :D
I bought this 454 out of the ***boat spam forums for $3,500. I took it to Paul Grichar Racing engines and disassembled it. Paul replaced the valve springs, rings, bearings and touched things up a bit. I had to buy a new oil pan.
It has a solid roller cam, ported 291 heads, plenty of compression and 660 carbs. On paper this thing should be well over 600 hp for a grand total of $4500. I could break this thing 5 times and still be ahead of what some of these guys get for their high dollar engines :)
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/jerrysgallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSC04484a.JPG
As far as the "***boat" debate, I think moneypit is an old schooler that feels like people today have lost touch with the grass roots of ***boating.
Obviously back in 1965, ***boat was derived from HotRod. If you define a hotrod traditionally and try and equate that to water you probably won't consider wakeboard boats or cookie cutter flatillas as "***boats".
I believe many of the people in here are more refined than the traditional "old school" grease monkey hotrodders and prefer comfort with their speed or just comfort period. And then there's the guys who only care about what the ladies think.
With all these different views and personallities mixed in here we'll never all agree on the definition of a true ***boat but in the end moneypit is right.:D

[DeltaSigBoater]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43096&stc=1&d=1195056489
What's DMP on the valve cover covers?
I would....
These ol' schoolers think if you can't burn your leg on an open header it is not a hot boat...literally......no hot pipes to burn legs, no hot boat.
I was gonna write some long profound novel like reply, but I though of this instead... :idea: run that boat of Danny's (pictured above). After running the boat use an inferred thermometer get a surface temperature reading of the exhaust header. Note the temp. reading. Now touch the exhaust manifold/header… HOT isn’t it ?
:D

[dirty old man]

Sounds to me like none of you have ever bought a pair of Merc 1075's @ $155,000 each. After you deduct the #6, what do you think the motor is worth. You do get the first 50 hour service included, after that, its about $25,000 a pop to refreshen. Quit bitchen

[uLtRADeNniS]

Sounds to me like none of you have ever bought a pair of Merc 1075's @ $155,000 each. After you deduct the #6, what do you think the motor is worth. You do get the first 50 hour service included, after that, its about $25,000 a pop to refreshen. Quit bitchen
Unfortunately I'm not at the income level where I can write a check for hundreds of thousands of dollars for motors! But I'm happy that you have achieved on such a high level that permits you to do so. Thats really awesome!.. Although if I had that cash lying around...my beliefs wouldn't change.... I STILL wouldn't buy one of those motors. Its all about personal preference I suppose!
Post some pics of your set up though... I would be interested in taking a peek!

[C-2]

Sounds to me like none of you have ever bought a pair of Merc 1075's @ $155,000 each. After you deduct the #6, what do you think the motor is worth. You do get the first 50 hour service included, after that, its about $25,000 a pop to refreshen. Quit bitchen
Bought a pair - shiat, I'm gonna guess over 3/4 of us on here haven't even seen a pair in person (except at the boat show).
I'm still feeling the pain for YOUR fuel bill on that boat ride you posted up, lol :eek:

[DeltaSigBoater]

Sounds to me like none of you have ever bought a pair of Merc 1075's @ $155,000 each. After you deduct the #6, what do you think the motor is worth. You do get the first 50 hour service included, after that, its about $25,000 a pop to refreshen. Quit bitchen
Cigarette on Lake Mead :idea: I'm sure I've seen your boat before, or the blur of it passing my sorry 50mph on a good day @ WOT ass. :D

[soupersonic]

Sounds to me like none of you have ever bought a pair of Merc 1075's @ $155,000 each. After you deduct the #6, what do you think the motor is worth. You do get the first 50 hour service included, after that, its about $25,000 a pop to refreshen. Quit bitchen
Never will either, i dont know what a #6 drive costs, im guessing about 40,000 because ive seen used ones in the 10-20 k range. The prices Merc and Illmor demand for these motors is a focking joke. The parts are no better than anyone else can get. There ane definately better builders out there for a hell of alot less. Even if i had the money i wouldnt buy a 1075 Merc. Id call Larry Peto,Jay Ershen,Jeff Strech or Dave Palmer and have a better motor for a FRACTION of the price. 600-700 EFI is definately achievable for the 20k range.You just have to bypass the high priced reputations.

[newmexico]

THEY ARE A FU CKING SCAM
PERIOD............................................ ...........................
how in the hell does a viper motor cost almost the same as a complete viper car....
SCAM
I asked that same question to a big marine engine builder once. His answer was the warranty. What is warranty for ONE year worth?

[Dave C]

to each his own......
Also I think there are very few people that can actually pull of a custom build. And of those that can, some of them are too busy to do it. So for the ordinary guy the HP showroom boat seems to be a very viable alternative (albeit expensive one) ;)
my favorite boat is still the 21 Daytona with a big old blower motor. Over transom exhaust pissing off the neighbors... f-ck em if they can't take a joke.
I would love to have both if I could afford it. Both boats are fun in their own way.
the low freeboards are a kick in the pants because you "feel" the speed. But there is nothing like cruising around long distances WFO in a bigger cat and sucking up the big snot.
either way... good times are ahead!:devil:
I much prefer to hang out with any ***boater than the sailboat crowd ;)
Badblown and Dave C, You both have far more experience than me in the marine end of motorsports, or maybe even all motorsports. Your ideas, opinions, and services are valuable to the boating public. I must admit there is more than one way to skin a cat..........I like your sleeper boat idea, big heavy, well appointed, Screamer!!!:sqeyes: ..........Kinda like a 57 Mercury sedan with a dual quad Lincolin engine..........Typical creature comfort car of the 50s, but able to show most of the T Birds the taillights once it got wound up........Boats are boats, and boaters are boaters. We need to stand united to protect our passion from being regulated out of existence.......The people you serve are the people that get active in groups when their recreation is threatened. The people like me are outlaws hanging back in the shadows hoping no one sees us and our un muffled exhaust........But together we are all ***boaters willing to help a fellow boater out of a jam if necessary.....MP
P.S. don't put me in BB's category... that boy got SKILLZ I ain't got ;) plus he keeps questionable company (i.e. R.D. sux)

[NOTALENT]

What causes the prices so high....
1. Components used/machine work needed
2. Labor rate/ time to build
3. Quality of the work done
4. The name your paying to run/ Reputation
5. Warranty (pretty much the same on marine)
Everyone knows you pay mostly for the name. Lots of good builders out there who do quality work without marking it up a great deal.

[dirty old man]

I don't know why some of you don't think Merc components aren't of the best quality, plus a warranty. I'm hard pressed to buy a quality 1.000 hp motor, transmission, dry sump system, gimble assembly (inner and outer), hydraulic steering, one of the best exhaust systems, and a really strong dry sump drive,(#6) for much less. If someone can direct me to a supplier who furnishes all new (no used or rebuilt) from a well known and established brand, I'll gladly look

[redneckcharlie]

THEY ARE A FU CKING SCAM
PERIOD............................................ ...........................
how in the hell does a viper motor cost almost the same as a complete viper car....
SCAM
Thats some funny shit right there!!!! Don't forget the 20 year financing option.

[dirty old man]

Further thoughts, where are you people buying your hi performance products from anyway; Volvo Racing Division? OMC? If you buy any new, semi -hi dollar or hi-hi dollar boat, what else can you do but buy Merc

[KineticoH20]

All good reading guys, except for the it's a hot boat it's not debate:rolleyes: Lets keep this topic flowing, I know i'm getting alot out of it as I'm sure others are. Thx to all who responed:)

[Family Jewell]

Now that winter is upon us and lots of people are contimplating winter mods to thier boats. I have been wondering why after market engines have to cost 25k to 35 for a 600hp EFI engine. I know builders need to make money but when someone says they have 30k into a 600hp engine it makes me say hmmmm. Is there nobody that makes a decent 600hp engine for under 20k? I would love to hear others thought on the matter. I called Pfaff today and was quoted 30k for the 600efi not installed without tax:jawdrop:
I would take a look at the crate motors offered by the automotive mannufactures. Ezample Chevrolet has a 572 that makes 620hp and 650 ft pds torque. This motor is great for jet boat appilcation or a stern drive if of course you upgrade your drive to handle the additional power which you are going to have to do any way. Hot Boat did and article on and Eliminator customer that was feeling the same about engine prices as you. The Client went out and purchased two 572's and Eliminator installed the motors. At 50 hours on the motors Hot boat paid a visit and went for a ride and the out come was unbelieveable. The boat ran top end 124 mph in a 28 Eliminator Daytona, at idle and cruising the motors were very docile. Chevrolet Makes several other engines and one with a complete fuel injection set up. 502 c.i. 502 hp fuel injected ram jet. I personally have the 572/620 in my 20.6 cole jet and could not be happier. Engiine starts first time every time, no oil leaks, and for power you can't beat for the price.

[NOTALENT]

I would take a look at the crate motors offered by the automotive mannufactures. Ezample Chevrolet has a 572 that makes 620hp and 650 ft pds torque. This motor is great for jet boat appilcation or a stern drive if of course you upgrade your drive to handle the additional power which you are going to have to do any way. Hot Boat did and article on and Eliminator customer that was feeling the same about engine prices as you. The Client went out and purchased two 572's and Eliminator installed the motors. At 50 hours on the motors Hot boat paid a visit and went for a ride and the out come was unbelieveable. The boat ran top end 124 mph in a 28 Eliminator Daytona, at idle and cruising the motors were very docile. Chevrolet Makes several other engines and one with a complete fuel injection set up. 502 c.i. 502 hp fuel injected ram jet. I personally have the 572/620 in my 20.6 cole jet and could not be happier. Engiine starts first time every time, no oil leaks, and for power you can't beat for the price.
Theres been alot of debate on this subject. Glad to hear its working out for you. The only flaw I would see is there is no warranty...Thats a big deal for some people.

[scarabrick2]

I would like to see them drop the PAN and check the bearing on the rods and crank. Then , give me a un bias opnion. Plus, pull the cam and check that also.
I have bought NEW motors from GM and took them apart..... Lets just say I had to buy new bearings and re check/torque everything

[beaverretriever]

Sounds to me like none of you have ever bought a pair of Merc 1075's @ $155,000 each. After you deduct the #6, what do you think the motor is worth. You do get the first 50 hour service included, after that, its about $25,000 a pop to refreshen. Quit bitchen
Hey, these engines of yours wouldn't happen to be in a 42 Outerlimits Carbon Edition would they? :idea: :)

[Family Jewell]

Theres been alot of debate on this subject. Glad to hear its working out for you. The only flaw I would see is there is no warranty...Thats a big deal for some people.
There is a parts warranty.

[Family Jewell]

I would like to see them drop the PAN and check the bearing on the rods and crank. Then , give me a un bias opnion. Plus, pull the cam and check that also.
I have bought NEW motors from GM and took them apart..... Lets just say I had to buy new bearings and re check/torque everything
I agree in years past the quality has not been there however i think that has changed. I purchased a brand new LS6 in 1980 and the cam lobes were bad before I ever started it. The 572 has H beam rods and I know that Chevrolet collaborated with several engine builders and custom engine parts manufactures and ran this motor at full throttle on the dyno for about a 1000 hours. That is always a good test but you have to stand back a little just in case some thing lets go.

[scarabrick2]

Lol
Stand Way Back !!!!!!:d
I Read Somewhere That The Test Is Unreal Wot, Idle ,wot Ect....
Glad It Payed Out For You

[C-2]

Paying for inflated egos, overpriced parts and a never ending fuel funnel....
.
.
.
.
.
...I'm thinking my potato chip tastes pretty good right about now. :)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I used a crate 502/502 in my Team Warlock 25 Euro. The cost was $5200 and it was a great motor.

[NOTALENT]

There is a parts warranty.
Nope...states clearly in there catalog:
This warranty does NOT cover damage due to improper use or an application that is not approved by GM including use related to racing or competition MARINE or motorcycle applications, or further non vechicle usage.

[KineticoH20]

I used a crate 502/502 in my Team Warlock 25 Euro. The cost was $5200 and it was a great motor.
John may I ask why then you went with the H.O and headers for 15k more? just curious.

[Dave C]

stop giving away all the secrets... ;)... if anyone asked you paid $30,000 for it ;)
I bought this 454 out of the ***boat spam forums for $3,500. I took it to Paul Grichar Racing engines and disassembled it. Paul replaced the valve springs, rings, bearings and touched things up a bit. I had to buy a new oil pan.
It has a solid roller cam, ported 291 heads, plenty of compression and 660 carbs. On paper this thing should be well over 600 hp for a grand total of $4500. I could break this thing 5 times and still be ahead of what some of these guys get for their high dollar engines :)
I've also used 502 bottom ends before.... good parts, Nitrated crank, J/E pistons, dimple rods..... nice piece for a decent price. The 502/502 has some good parts too. Good enough for most applications short of heavy nitrous, blowers and turbos.
I think much of it is in the setup. If things are setup wrong then the results will "vary." I've seen some people use GM crate motors in race cars with excellent results.
BTW standard rule of thumb when you take delivery of new motor (from any source)... double check torque and a couple of clearances.... You'd be surprised:eek: sometimes people have a bad day:eek:
Stock GM motors have much lower tolerances than a custom build but in most stock applications that is OK. It all depends on what you use it for..

[scarabrick2]

Never will either, i dont know what a #6 drive costs, im guessing about 40,000 because ive seen used ones in the 10-20 k range. The prices Merc and Illmor demand for these motors is a focking joke. The parts are no better than anyone else can get. There ane definately better builders out there for a hell of alot less. Even if i had the money i wouldnt buy a 1075 Merc. Id call Larry Peto,Jay Ershen,Jeff Strech or Dave Palmer and have a better motor for a FRACTION of the price. 600-700 EFI is definately achievable for the 20k range.You just have to bypass the high priced reputations.
Two thumbs up for JEFF STRETCH !!!!!!!!!!
BTW Thanks for hooking up my bro. Your a man of his word...
Bring that big boat of your out here one day.... Drinks are on us :) :) :)
Rick

[soupersonic]

Two thumbs up for JEFF STRETCH !!!!!!!!!!
BTW Thanks for hooking up my bro. Your a man of his word...
Bring that big boat of your out here one day.... Drinks are on us :) :) :)
Rick
Thats a healthy motor for a 27'er :D I would definately like to see more of Mead. Ill sure let you guys know when im going up. You can show the newb around :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

John may I ask why then you went with the H.O and headers for 15k more? just curious.
I bought the Ultra 26 after the boat was built. Also, the 502/502 was a carb motor and wasn't real fuel friendly.
My Warlock had a drive, so that wasn't an issue. I bought the boat as a recovered theft. No engine, interior. I put this boat back together in about three months, and put about 150 hours on it, over two seasons. I ran a small blower on in for a about 4 months and leaned it out and melted the tops of two pistons. I was lucky that the cylinder walls were not damaged at all so it was just a matter of replacing the two pistons. I ran it for the rest of the season and then bought my first Ultra. Sold the Warlock for 25K a few months later.
I have often thought about trying to find a FI system from an HP525, and setting up a crate 502/502 with the same cam and valves. An HP525 is basically a 502/502 with a few mods. Sorry for the long winded answer.

[KineticoH20]

I have been looking at crate motors all day on line. Im not looking for a blower set up however read earlier that you can not get an 800hp engine for less than 30k. I found this one, I don't know if it's quality or not as im not much of a wrench but the price was good I thought.
http://www.smedingperformance.com/540blown.htm

[NOTALENT]

I have been looking at crate motors all day on line. Im not looking for a blower set up however read earlier that you can not get an 800hp engine for less than 30k. I found this one, I don't know if it's quality or not as im not much of a wrench but the price was good I thought.
http://www.smedingperformance.com/540blown.htm
Smeding does some good work, but if you notice they dont list what brand rotating assemblies they use (possibly to cut down on price) and also from what I hear they use MSD knock off distributors...not sure if its true, but I sent a few emails and havent heard back.....We just did close to that same build up with a Dart block and a scat rotating assembly. Working on a 540 Marine right now as well. 650+HP cant wait to see the finished product and the numbers it puts out. If your in the market let me know what your looking for...I may be able to hook ya up.

[burtandnancy2]

Let me add a little fuel to the fire. Of course guys like Gary Teague, Paul Pfaff, Bob Teague, Carson Brummet, Larry Peto all in the west, and Sterling and KE in the east build great motors in every horsepower range at various prices. But who supplies the OEM's (boat manufactors) at a discount sufficient enough to be competitive, and distributors who stock and warehouse products, and the dealers who service and repair for the consumer? Only companies like Mercruiser (Brunswick). Its not free, nor is the schooling for the techs who do the work. After all, you can't go to Detroit (or Tokyo) and buy a new car direct at any cost...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I have been looking at crate motors all day on line. Im not looking for a blower set up however read earlier that you can not get an 800hp engine for less than 30k. I found this one, I don't know if it's quality or not as im not much of a wrench but the price was good I thought.
http://www.smedingperformance.com/540blown.htm
Not without an intercooler, IMO

[KineticoH20]

Smeding does some good work, but if you notice they dont list what brand rotating assemblies they use (possibly to cut down on price) and also from what I hear they use MSD knock off distributors...not sure if its true, but I sent a few emails and havent heard back.....We just did close to that same build up with a Dart block and a scat rotating assembly. Working on a 540 Marine right now as well. 650+HP cant wait to see the finished product and the numbers it puts out. If your in the market let me know what your looking for...I may be able to hook ya up.
As soon as I'm out of this boat we will certainly talk.

[Rob Freeman]

tand l engines nascar engine and boat enthusiests 598 bbc all the good stuff dart big m dart pro one heads isky tool room springs 30 hrs not even a spark plug change dynoed at 705 hs 775 tq at 4400 10 500 out the door !! if youd like to see the build sheet and dyno let me know theese guys build for cup , buesch ect they know there chit and cheap too again tand l engine developement just outside of charlette oh and the heads ared completely ported and polished this would cost another 1500 to 2 k elsewhere

[NOTALENT]

tand l engines nascar engine and boat enthusiests 598 bbc all the good stuff dart big m dart pro one heads isky tool room springs 30 hrs not even a spark plug change dynoed at 705 hs 775 tq at 4400 10 500 out the door !! if youd like to see the build sheet and dyno let me know theese guys build for cup , buesch ect they know there chit and cheap too again tand l engine developement just outside of charlette oh and the heads ared completely ported and polished this would cost another 1500 to 2 k elsewhere
They definitely got some nice stuff at great costs...what type of warranty do they offer?

[Rob Freeman]

They definitely got some nice stuff at great costs...what type of warranty do they offer?
1 year on all engines theese guys will sell you a great engine cheap been around for twenty some years just be sure to give them plenty of time to build they are extreamly buisy it took 12 weeks for mine but worth every minute just for the savings its woth it but the motor rocks hast used a lick of oil starts at the click of the key although i upgraded to a biggs performance 1050 stage 5 that t and l said was baddass so ive been happy this power was on a relatively small cam should see 250 hrs easy max lift of only 575 easy on valve train

[Rob Freeman]

dont read it if you cant understand my typing dick head

[laveydayz]

Hey, these engines of yours wouldn't happen to be in a 42 Outerlimits Carbon Edition would they? :idea: :)
I know the boat you are thinking of. Its has 800SC's and #6 drives and Blue w/carbon TOAD paint job. Talked to that guy at Lake Mead Marina. Big ass boat. Very bitchin.
I think he may have sold that thing. It was advertised at Lake Cumberland Marine.

[OGShocker]

Kick rocks you ****ing illiterate kook.
Wow Jon, I am not sure he knows who he is ***king with. :D

[Rob Freeman]

i garentee you wouldnt say that to my face !!! always a tuff guy hiding behind a key pad ! youre just jealous cause i can afford a real engine !

[BadKachina]

Kick rocks you ****ing illiterate kook.
Uh oh...:jawdrop:

[Rob Freeman]

Wow Jon, I am not sure he knows who he is ***king with. :D
no i dont , nor do i care , i simply add an opinion , and get the typing police on my ass , i have nothing to prove nor care to have to prove it ! ive been there and grew up !

[laveydayz]

no i dont , nor do i care , i simply add an opinion , and get the typing police on my ass , i have nothing to prove nor care to have to prove it ! ive been there and grew up !
You guys are classic!!
That Nascar country (NC), has some great motor builders. A friend of mine that I grew up, with went to work for Robert Yates racing, managing the motor shop several years ago. Some of the dyno testing he tells me about is crazy. From the RPM's they spin at, building a nice 600hp reliable marine motor would be cake. He says the same thing. Marine is way over priced.
One of these days im going to take him up on coming out to visit. I have seen pics and that facility is incredible.

[KineticoH20]

Ok here is a dumb question, remember i'm no engine guru. When you buy a GM or like engine what is needed and at what cost to get it to marry a typical Merc outdrive.

[beaverretriever]

I know the boat you are thinking of. Its has 800SC's and #6 drives and Blue w/carbon TOAD paint job. Talked to that guy at Lake Mead Marina. Big ass boat. Very bitchin.
I think he may have sold that thing. It was advertised at Lake Cumberland Marine.
Yeah, his name is Bob. I was guessing that may be him posting. He has a house next door to my parents. Awesome boat. The blue, grey, flourescent yellow and carbon 42. I wasn't sure what engines he had. I knew they were bitchen though.

[Moneypitt]

Kick rocks you ****ing illiterate kook.
i garentee you wouldnt say that to my face !!! always a tuff guy hiding behind a key pad ! youre just jealous cause i can afford a real engine !
Do you think now would be a good time to re open "what classifies as a ***boat??" discussion?......No, OK.....Just thought this was getting a little off subject.......MP

[Flashwave]

Now days
1.) closed cooling heat exchanger $?
2.) Sea Water Pump $400
3.) Inconel Exhaust valves $350
4.) Cam $290
5.) ECM Programming $500-$1000
6.) Headers $2-$5K
7.) Roller Rockers $350
8.) Sea Strainer $500
9.) Marine Alternator $200
10.) Power Steering $1000
11.) Engine mounts $450
12.) Wiring harness $300
13.) Oil cooler $700
14.) Remote oil filter mount $280
15.) Bell Housing $350
16.) Coupler $350
This is a ball park estimate. I'm sure there is more.
Prices are from CP's catalog

[INI]

Now days
1.) closed cooling heat exchanger $?
2.) Sea Water Pump $400
3.) Inconel Exhaust valves $350
4.) Cam $290
5.) ECM Programming $500-$1000
6.) Headers $2-$5K
7.) Roller Rockers $350
8.) Sea Strainer $500
9.) Marine Alternator $200
10.) Power Steering $1000
11.) Engine mounts $450
12.) Wiring harness $300
13.) Oil cooler $700
14.) Remote oil filter mount $280
15.) Bell Housing $350
16.) Coupler $350
This is a ball park estimate. I'm sure there is more.
Prices are from CP's catalog
getting the same as we speak..

[BADBLOWN572]

1 year on all engines theese guys will sell you a great engine cheap been around for twenty some years just be sure to give them plenty of time to build they are extreamly buisy it took 12 weeks for mine but worth every minute just for the savings its woth it but the motor rocks hast used a lick of oil starts at the click of the key although i upgraded to a biggs performance 1050 stage 5 that t and l said was baddass so ive been happy this power was on a relatively small cam should see 250 hrs easy max lift of only 575 easy on valve train
Are you running hydraulic or solid rollers?

[dirty old man]

Beaveretrever, no, in a 38 Top Gun on a hoist on the lake. There's only been one boat (v bottom) to pass it and that was a 40 Hallett

[KineticoH20]

Ok here is a dumb question, remember i'm no engine guru. When you buy a GM or like engine what is needed and at what cost to get it to marry a typical Merc outdrive.
Anyone?

[DeltaSigBoater]

Beaveretrever, no, in a 38 Top Gun on a hoist on the lake. There's only been one boat (v bottom) to pass it and that was a 40 Hallett
I passed a 40' Hallett one time :D
going up Mountain Pass :rolleyes:

[48hr club]

7 grand gets you 600hp
http://www.dougherbert.com/dhp496chevybbstroker600hp-p-25850.html?cPath=614_615

[Flashwave]

Add $12K to the $7K bare engine and you can actually turn the prop with it.

[KineticoH20]

Now days
1.) closed cooling heat exchanger $?
2.) Sea Water Pump $400
3.) Inconel Exhaust valves $350
4.) Cam $290
5.) ECM Programming $500-$1000
6.) Headers $2-$5K
7.) Roller Rockers $350
8.) Sea Strainer $500
9.) Marine Alternator $200
10.) Power Steering $1000
11.) Engine mounts $450
12.) Wiring harness $300
13.) Oil cooler $700
14.) Remote oil filter mount $280
15.) Bell Housing $350
16.) Coupler $350
This is a ball park estimate. I'm sure there is more.
Prices are from CP's catalog
Why does a boat motor need power steering?

[Dave C]

last time I checked I saw XR's on sale for $7,200.... out of state no tax.
But you still have to buy the gimbal $2,500 and pumps and cables.
Anyone?

[Havasu1986]

Ok here is a dumb question, remember i'm no engine guru. .
You must have took print shop with Ray King at B.H.S. like me. :eek: :D I heard the re-union was fun this year. :rolleyes:

[KineticoH20]

You must have took print shop with Ray King at B.H.S. like me. :eek: :D I heard the re-union was fun this year. :rolleyes:
LMAO How fun can a Bellflower reunion be:eek: For as many performance cars and boat I have bought I amit I'm an idiot! as far as wrenching.

[KineticoH20]

You must have took print shop with Ray King at B.H.S. like me. :eek: :D I heard the re-union was fun this year. :rolleyes:
Actually I was Don Moore's TA in photo you remember him?

[Rob Freeman]

Are you running hydraulic or solid rollers?
hydroliic , could get another easy 75 going solid , im waiting on some seat of the pants trials on the new red zone lifters to see how they fair , then might take the leap to a solid roller cam . Although in already at the breaking point of my xr drive . its held up so far but i truly feel its not a if but a when will it break kind of deal ! besides in all honesty im running close to 90 in a 29 fountain and its fast enough . The best part is the getting there, it truly throws you back in youre seat and keeps you there till it tops out . thats what its all about for me , vvveeerrrooom big bore baby !!