B&E Results in 2 Dead Robbers

[Old Texan]

Yesterday in Pasadena, TX a suburb of Houston, a 70 year old man called 911 to report hearing breaking glass alerting him to a breakin at his neighbors home. Knowing the neighbors were not home he made the emergency call for help and while watching the house saw 2 men coming out carrying a white bag. He told the 911 dispatcher he was getting his gun and stopping the 2 from leaving. The dispatcher to no avail told him not to, heard him rack a shell in the chamber of his shotgun, and off he went.
The man confronted the 2 as they came through a gate in the neighbors yard and ordered them to halt. They instead decided to run and the man shot 1 in the chest with his shotgun and the other in the side. Perp 1 died on the spot and perp 2 made it several houses down before dying.
The man then called 911 back and told them what happened. When police arrived he retraced his steps and calmly explained the whole incident in detail.
The 2 dead were of hispanic descent with various ID from Puerto Rico, Columbia, and the Dominican Republic.
Authorities say there will be debate about the shooting as the man was defending his neighbor's property rather than his own. Good news is he will perhaps be within his rights if the neighbor had asked he watch over things or considers the man had more rights to the property than the thieves which justifies him defending the property.
Here's hoping the old fellow gets no billed for the shooting and gets a good neighbor award.

[mmered8299]

Sadley the old man will spend the rest of his life in jail.

[Old Texan]

Sadley the old man will spend the rest of his life in jail.
I wouldn't bet on it. Texas Grand Juries view property rights as defendable.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Only thing wrong with that story is the other guy limped a few houses down before he died...

[boats&bars]

God Bless Texas, I hope they throw him a parade,nothing worse than a thief.:)

[Schiada76]

Sadley the old man will spend the rest of his life in jail.
Not in Texas he won't!:D
Give him a medal. I think they need to put a bounty on scumbags like these.:D

[DelawareDave]

Sadley the old man will spend the rest of his life in jail.
I suspect that since it happened in Texas, this may not be true.

[uvindex]

I wouldn't bet on it.Agreed. And if he needs money for legal fees, I'll bet there will be plenty of law-abiding citizens willing to cough up a few bucks (me included).

[BoatPI]

Please forward his address so I can send a box of replacement '00' buckshot for him.

[Jbb]

Bang.......Bang.....Adios, dogshit thieves..........Game over.......Excellent Outcome!

[ratso]

I love it... the bastards won't be in jail on my dime.:D

[Her454]

There was a story here in Nor Cal about a month ago where a marine on leave was visiting his family and walking the neighborhood with his sisters I believe...and a child came running out of a house yelling for help saying his dad was hurting his mom. The marine went up to the door and heard screams etc and went in..... wife was getting beat up pretty bad, bloody etc. The marine hits the husband and takes him down and holds him until police get there....... then he's charged with assault, by BOTh the husband and the wife. Several witnesses and he goes to jail because he went IN the house to help her.
He spent 2 days in jail and after the story hit the media he was offered free legal counsel and was receiving $$ in the mail from all over the US. Apparently he was at risk of losing his military career and spending quite a bit of time in jail for it.
Crazy focking world. He helps someone out thats getting beat up, in front of their children.....and ends up in jail possibly losing his career, pension etc.

[thumbs]

Devils advocate here:
Lets say your 17 your old kid gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and next thing you know he is leaning in the window of a car and stealing some CD's. The owner comes out with a shotgun and say "halt" but like most kids he just takes off running. Next thing you know he is laying dead in the street because some guy was protecting his property.
How do you like the vigilante mentality now?

[ratso]

Devils advocate here:
Lets say your 17 your old kid gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and next thing you know he is leaning in the window of a car and stealing some CD's. The owner comes out with a shotgun and say "halt" but like most kids he just takes off running. Next thing you know he is laying dead in the street because some guy was protecting his property.
How do you like the vigilante mentality now?
Let's say my 17 year old wouldn't get mixed up with a crowd like that.;)

[thumbs]

Let's say my 17 year old wouldn't get mixed up with a crowd like that.;)
Of course not. That is always someone else's kid. Everyone here on HB has perfect lives. :rolleyes:

[Sleek-Jet]

Devils advocate here:
Lets say your 17 your old kid gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and next thing you know he is leaning in the window of a car and stealing some CD's. The owner comes out with a shotgun and say "halt" but like most kids he just takes off running. Next thing you know he is laying dead in the street because some guy was protecting his property.
How do you like the vigilante mentality now?
Hopefully I raised him with enough sense not to do that...
If I somehow failed in that regard, hopefully I raised him with enough sense not to run...
The only thing I fault the old man with is not pumping another round into perp #2 and dropping him on the spot.
And here I thought it was going to be a boring day on ***boat...

[SB]

It's a fair point.
No cop would have taken that shot.
I'll bet the law states that you can use deadly force to protect your person but not your property.
You are allowed to use reasonable force to stop a crime, so we'll see.

[thumbs]

Hopefully I raised him with enough sense not to do that...
If I somehow failed in that regard, hopefully I raised him with enough sense not to run...
The only thing I fault the old man with is not pumping another round into perp #2 and dropping him on the spot.
And here I thought it was going to be a boring day on ***boat...
Again, I know that everyone here has raised perfect kids, their boat is paid for, never had a drink and got behind the wheel, house is paid for.......
But what if...

[topless]

Devils advocate here:
Lets say your 17 your old kid gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and next thing you know he is leaning in the window of a car and stealing some CD's. The owner comes out with a shotgun and say "halt" but like most kids he just takes off running. Next thing you know he is laying dead in the street because some guy was protecting his property.
How do you like the vigilante mentality now?
If more people would shoot when these scumbags ran, it would make the next scumbag think twice. The law now makes it too easy for criminals to get away with breaking it.
Now, let's say your 17 year old broke into your neighbors house and was caught red handed, tried to run when asked to stop, got shot but didn't die. Are you one of those who is going to sue or are you going to tell him he's lucky to be alive?

[Jyruiz]

Two less scumbags to worry about. Nice job old timer.

[Schiada76]

It's a fair point.
No cop would have taken that shot.
I'll bet the law states that you can use deadly force to protect your person but not your property.
You are allowed to use reasonable force to stop a crime, so we'll see.
Let me help you out here.
NOT.
.
.
.
.
..
IN.
.
.
.
.
..
TEXAS:D :D

[Jbb]

Again, I know that everyone here has raised perfect kids, their boat is paid for, never had a drink and got behind the wheel, house is paid for.......
But what if...
We could play this game all day...your point is?......
I am guessing you would have helped them load up the truck?...

[Sleek-Jet]

Again, I know that everyone here has raised perfect kids, their boat is paid for, never had a drink and got behind the wheel, house is paid for.......
But what if...
Yeah, you're right... Even scumbags have mothers... :rolleyes:
If my son/daughter got shot and killed in the middle of commiting a crime (like breaking and entering)... while I would mourn my loss, I can say from this vantage point that I would not blame the person pulling the trigger. Not that the guy would become my best buddy, but I wouldn't hold him or her accountable anymore than the law would.
Crimes have consequences...

[Old Texan]

It's a fair point.
No cop would have taken that shot.
I'll bet the law states that you can use deadly force to protect your person but not your property.
You are allowed to use reasonable force to stop a crime, so we'll see.
Below is Texas' "Castle Doctrine" which allows deadly force to protect you and yours. What is to be questioned is in consideration of your neighbor's property.
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
relating to the use of force or deadly force in defense of a person.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 9.01, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subdivisions (4) and (5) to read as follows:
(4) "Habitation" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
(5) "Vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
SECTION 2. Section 9.31, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (e) and (f) to read as follows:
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.
(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
SECTION 3. Section 9.32, Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
SECTION 5.
(a) Sections 9.31 and 9.32, Penal Code, as amended by this Act, apply only to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is covered by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for this purpose. For the purposes of this subsection, an offense is committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of the offense occurs before the effective date.
(b) Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, as amended by this Act, applies only to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of this Act. An action that accrued before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in effect at the time the action accrued, and that law is continued in effect for that purpose.
SECTION 6. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.

[thumbs]

If more people would shoot when these scumbags ran, it would make the next scumbag think twice. The law now makes it too easy for criminals to get away with breaking it.
Agreed.
Now, let's say your 17 year old broke into your neighbors house and was caught red handed, tried to run when asked to stop, got shot but didn't die. Are you one of those who is going to sue or are you going to tell him he's lucky to be alive?
I'll tell him he is lucky to be alive.

[DMOORE]

Only thing wrong with that story is the other guy limped a few houses down before he died...
:)
Not really, he had "some" time to suffer.
Darrell.

[thumbs]

We could play this game all day...your point is?..
If the guys were caught and found guily in our court system would they be sentenced to death for this crime? Of course not. Should they be??????
I am guessing you would have helped them load up the truck?...Why would you guess that? Did I say something that lead you to believe I think it's ok to steal from other?
I'm just being the Devils advocate here. I'm not saying that it's ok to steal but I also don't think that this crime should be punishable by death.

[thumbs]

Not that the guy would become my best buddy, but I wouldn't hold him or her accountable anymore than the law would.
Crimes have consequences...
Do you think that theft should be punishable by death?

[Jbb]

If the guys were caught and found guily in our court system would they be sentenced to death for this crime? Of course not. Should they be??????
Why would you guess that? Did I say something that lead you to believe I think it's ok to steal from other?
I'm just being the Devils advocate here. I'm not saying that it's ok to steal but I also don't think that this crime should be punishable by death.
Here's what I think.........I think If I were you......I would not move to Texas....and steal anything.....

[ratso]

Of course not. That is always someone else's kid. Everyone here on HB has perfect lives. :rolleyes:
Not perfect... just so many parents let their kids run over them and lose control... BTW, mine is 25 now, and has never even raised his voice to me or back talked me, yet I see parents with 5 year olds that put up with shit like that all the time.

[Jbb]

Do you think that theft should be punishable by death?
Do you have any thoughts as to why states are turning to these type of laws?........Do you think It might be because hard working, law abiding people, might just be tired of criminals getting slapped on the wrist....and set free to commit more crimes?

[thumbs]

Here's what I think.........I think If I were you......I would not move to Texas....and steal anything.....
Why not answer the question with your opinion?

[ratso]

If the guys were caught and found guily in our court system would they be sentenced to death for this crime? Of course not. Should they be??????
Why would you guess that? Did I say something that lead you to believe I think it's ok to steal from other?
I'm just being the Devils advocate here. I'm not saying that it's ok to steal but I also don't think that this crime should be punishable by death.
They have already been sentenced...;)
thumbs, not ragging on you, but what if the thieves had guns? What if the home owners were home? Too many times the innocent victims are shot and killed... way too often for me. Serves the bastards right. I'm glad they're dead, because I have been the "victim" of crimes like this in the past and wasn't lucky enough to catch them. Shoot em, kill em, and start deterring this kind of bullshit!:mad:

[ratso]

Do you think that theft should be punishable by death?
Yes...

[Jbb]

Why not answer the question with your opinion?
Ok My opinion is this .....If a criminal were to enter my property to commit a crime .....and I caught him..(them)...my first reaction would be to protect my loved ones, and my property....by whatever legal means open to me.....would I shoot them....yes I would...

[Sleek-Jet]

Do you think that theft should be punishable by death?
I believe that everyone has a right to protect his or her property... if they feel they need and are within their rights to use deadly force... then so be it...
The people that commit these crimes are counting on the mentality of "I shouldn't get killed over it... "

[MKEELINE]

What if the thieves were on a treadmill?

[ratso]

What if the thieves were on a treadmill?
They wouldn't have been able to run away then, would they...:D

[thumbs]

They have already been sentenced...;)
thumbs, not ragging on you, but what if the thieves had guns? What if the home owners were home? Too many times the innocent victims are shot and killed... way too often for me. Serves the bastards right. I'm glad they're dead, because I have been the "victim" of crimes like this in the past and wasn't lucky enough to catch them. Shoot em, kill em, and start deterring this kind of bullshit!:mad:
I'm not taking any of this as ragging on me and I hope you guys arent either. Just a debate.
Your question above changes things in my opinion as they are armed. I would shoot to kill if and only if I thought my LIFE or the LIFE of another was threatened. I would not kill someone because they stole something from me or worse yet my neighbor.
Is it OK to kill a man for stealing your car?
Is it ok to kill a kid for stealing a pack of gum?
If you answer yes to the first question then no to the second then where is the line drawn?

[MKEELINE]

They wouldn't have been able to run away then, would they...:D
But could they have flown? Hummmm.

[Old Texan]

It isn't like the man shot them in cold blood. He told them to stop. They saw he had a gun and decided to run. They made 3 bad choices yesterday:
1- Robbing a house
2- Robbing a house next to a gun owner that doesn't put up with criminals
3- Running instead of obeying a man aiming a shotgun at your chest that isn't afraid to pull the trigger
So far the identity of the man hasn't been publicly released, but I assure you from the talk around town, he is considered in the right and few have thought he did wrong, police included from what I've heard.

[thumbs]

What if the thieves were on a treadmill?
Again, this changes everything. Do the theives have clearance for take-off? Are they FAA approved?

[R.A.D.man]

We just need a law that says if you flee from your capture, you can be shot. Then lots of crimes are punishable by death:D

[topless]

So far the identity of the man hasn't been publicly released, but I assure you from the talk around town, he is considered in the right and few have thought he did wrong, police included from what I've heard.
God I miss Texas.

[Old Texan]

God I miss Texas.
And Texas misses You......:D

[roostwear]

I'm not taking any of this as ragging on me and I hope you guys arent either. Just a debate.
Your question above changes things in my opinion as they are armed. I would shoot to kill if and only if I thought my LIFE or the LIFE of another was threatened. I would not kill someone because they stole something from me or worse yet my neighbor.
Is it OK to kill a man for stealing your car?
Is it ok to kill a kid for stealing a pack of gum?
If you answer yes to the first question then no to the second then where is the line drawn?
So the old man should have let them get away?

[SB]

Interesting conundrum.
What if the thief had my camcorder with a tape in it, 2 hours of irreplaceable home movies. I might shoot.
But if he ejected the tape, I wouldn't shoot him over a $300 camcorder.

[ratso]

I'm not taking any of this as ragging on me and I hope you guys arent either. Just a debate.
Your question above changes things in my opinion as they are armed. I would shoot to kill if and only if I thought my LIFE or the LIFE of another was threatened. I would not kill someone because they stole something from me or worse yet my neighbor.
Is it OK to kill a man for stealing your car?
Is it ok to kill a kid for stealing a pack of gum?
If you answer yes to the first question then no to the second then where is the line drawn?
Lines are drawn for everything... That's why there are speed limits and numerous other laws. Would I shoot a kid over a pack of gum? Give me a break. If someone is breaking into my house, there is a definite possibility they could also harm me. Bang...

[thumbs]

So the old man should have let them get away?
No. He should do whatever he can to keep them there short of deadly force.
Do you have an opinion on the questions I posed?

[topless]

No. He should do whatever he can to keep them there short of deadly force.
Do you have an opinion on the questions I posed?Maybe in his old age he forgot his glasses and was aiming for the knees. Did ya ever think of that???

[thumbs]

Lines are drawn for everything... That's why there are speed limits and numerous other laws. Would I shoot a kid over a pack of gum? Give me a break. If someone is breaking into my house, there is a definite possibility they could also harm me. Bang...
Agreed. But where do you draw the line if you think a theif (that did not threaten to harm anyone) should be punished by death?
BTW - I know Mr. Ratso would not put a cap in a kids ass over some Dubble-bubble. I was just making a point.

[oldbuck40]

Maybe in his old age he forgot his glasses and was aiming for the knees. Did ya ever think of that???
lmao yea Ali you know he did! he's from Texas BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG!:D

[Schiada76]

Shoot the bastards until the rest of the dumfcks get the message, then keep shooting the ones too stupid to get it.:D :D

[thumbs]

Maybe in his old age he forgot his glasses and was aiming for the knees. Did ya ever think of that???
Good point....lol.

[CARLSON-JET]

It isn't like the man shot them in cold blood. He told them to stop. They saw he had a gun and decided to run. They made 3 bad choices yesterday:
1- Robbing a house
2- Robbing a house next to a gun owner that doesn't put up with criminals
3- Running instead of obeying a man aiming a shotgun at your chest that isn't afraid to pull the trigger
So far the identity of the man hasn't been publicly released, but I assure you from the talk around town, he is considered in the right and few have thought he did wrong, police included from what I've heard.
I would add they forgot THE most important thing here.
#4 "They" the deceast forgot to read the Texas law that enables one to protect their property. Had the home owner been home the same results could have been enforced.
There is an old saying here in america.. " Don't to the crime if you can't do the time". Ignorance is not a defense, and that holds up in court everytime.

[MKEELINE]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Blammo.JPG
Answer your question?
Rio
No. That appears to be some type of bird and therefore would have wings that will help with lift. A thief, on the otherhand, would not have wings and wouldn't or shouldn't be able to fly. Now, if the thief was added by a shotgun blast I imagine he would fly pretty good.
What I really want to know is, did you send that drawing to the Art Institute yet? There maybe a scholarship in your future.
Oh well, two less scumbags to worry about. Good work.

[ratso]

Agreed. But where do you draw the line if you think a theif (that did not threaten to harm anyone) should be punished by death?
BTW - I know Mr. Ratso would not put a cap in a kids ass over some Dubble-bubble. I was just making a point.
If he is in my home, or frankly anybody's home ripping people off. If they are breaking into my car, my business, mostly sums it up. They better plan on doing some harm because I am going to. I would hate to shoot anybody, but if they are unarmed, they won't be going to jail without at least a visit to the hospital.

[fourspeednup]

My only comment...the county should send the families of the deceased the bill for the old man's ammo wasted on those scumbags
In all fairness though thumbs has a point. Pretty doubtful a trained LEO would shoot a fleeing suspect in the back unless he was positive a very serious crime had been committed and he felt the guy was an immediate threat.

[Classic Daycruiser]

Below is Texas' "Castle Doctrine" which allows deadly force to protect you and yours. What is to be questioned is in consideration of your neighbor's property.
and they have to find 12 jury members to convict. I'm guessing this case will be in the courts for 10-12 years. 82 year old man goes to jail....yeah right.:jawdrop: :D

[topless]

If you enter my property uninvited with the intent to violate me, you WILL pay the price. You decide if it's worth it.
RioI'm getting exited now, so what time will you not expect me?:D

[roostwear]

No. He should do whatever he can to keep them there short of deadly force.
Do you have an opinion on the questions I posed?
Why short of deadly force?

[YeLLowBoaT]

All you people saying deadly force was too much... lets be real other then a weapon how on earth would a 70 year old man stop 2 young men?

[Moneypitt]

The real question here is not what the old man did. The real question, in Texas, is did these guys need killin'...........Case closed..........Do you have any idea how many people are still alive simply because it is illegal to kill them?........MP

[Ryphraph]

Agreed. But where do you draw the line if you think a theif (that did not threaten to harm anyone) should be punished by death?
BTW - I know Mr. Ratso would not put a cap in a kids ass over some Dubble-bubble. I was just making a point.
I wouldn't wait until a thief was in my house to decide whether or not he is going to threaten me or my family...
Due to the nature of thieves and crime in general, he is already a threat.
Ryph

[Old Texan]

The evening news just played back the 911 tape. The old guy who I believe wasn't 70 but in his 60's, told the dispatcher he was going to confront the robbers and not allow them to leave. The dispatcher kept telling him no, it wasn't safe but he was very insistant and pretty much said he would shoot them if he felt at all threatened. He even talked about the new law I posted earlier and somewaht discussed the fact it was the neighbor's proeperty not his. But he felt obligated to stop the burglary if the police didn't arrive.
When they came out of next door he announced he was going out, racked in a shell and told the dispatcher, "Hear that, I'm racking in a shell...."
With the phone still picking up what was said by the man, he stepped out and said "Stop or you're dead....." 2 shots were fired and you know the rest. It happened pretty quickly and they apparentlyemerged right next to his property.
From the tape it is going to be pretty interesting how this works out.
A little background info from the news footage. The man's name is Joe Horn. The neighborhood is pretty upscale. The homes 3,000+ SF, 2 stories, 3 car garage, brick, 6 foot wood fences, and probably a subdivision less than 10 years old. Joe talked very intelligently and knew full well what was happeneing. He came across as a man defending his neighborhood against thieves and had no reservations other than stopping the crime and defending himself against harm.
He issued his quick warning with full intent that he was shooting to kill.
I'll try and send a link to the 911 tape as it becomes available.
This is going to be interesting how the Grand Jury views it.

[Baja Big Dog]

Devils advocate here:
Lets say your 17 your old kid gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and next thing you know he is leaning in the window of a car and stealing some CD's. The owner comes out with a shotgun and say "halt" but like most kids he just takes off running. Next thing you know he is laying dead in the street because some guy was protecting his property.
How do you like the vigilante mentality now?
Lets say Im an Iraqi vet, wounded in war, and the govt is focking around about disability, not to be a burden on loved ones I make a very minaml living doing what ever my pain level lets me do, I survive, but barley. I save up enough "funny money" to go out and buy a few CD's that I have been dreaming about for months, they are bright spot in my sit life. And your able bodied 17 year old douche bag walks down the street (able bodied and could be flipping burgers at Mc Donald's, that I wish I could) and decides he wants my CD's.....
HMMMMM lets see??
How about... BANG....... YOU PIECE OF SHIT MOTHER FOCKER!!
Then they could interview you and all your neighbors on TV and they can say "he was such a good boy!!"
God Bless Texas!!!

[thumbs]

Can anyone here actually answer the original question I asked? Here it is in case you forgot.
Lets say your 17 year old kid gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and next thing you know he is leaning in the window of a car and stealing some CD's. The owner comes out with a shotgun and say "halt" but like most kids he just takes off running. Next thing you know he is laying dead in the street because some guy was protecting his property.
Do you feel that your kid deserved to die for this crime where he was not a threat to anyone at any time? Anyone care to answer rather than dodge?

[thumbs]

Lets say Im an Iraqi vet, wounded in war, and the govt is focking around about disability, not to be a burden on loved ones I make a very minaml living doing what ever my pain level lets me do, I survive, but barley. I save up enough "funny money" to go out and buy a few CD's that I have been dreaming about for months, they are bright spot in my sit life. And your able bodied 17 year old douche bag walks down the street (able bodied and could be flipping burgers at Mc Donald's, that I wish I could) and decides he wants my CD's.....
HMMMMM lets see??
How about... BANG....... YOU PIECE OF SHIT MOTHER FOCKER!!
Then they could interview you and all your neighbors on TV and they can say "he was such a good boy!!"
God Bless Texas!!!
Again, not worth killing over in my opinion.
If your kid stole from you would you shoot him?

[Moneypitt]

Can anyone here actually answer the original question I asked? Here it is in case you forgot.
Do you feel that your kid deserved to die for this crime where he was not a threat to anyone at any time? Anyone care to answer rather than dodge?
I don't think anyone here wants to kill anyone. Talk is cheap. If it came right down to it I doubt any talkers would be killing anyone running away from a vehicular break in. They might want to in hindsight, but actully pulling the trigger, I doubt it. As with this case in Texas, I guess you would have to be there. Spit second decisions are not always right, not always politically correct, and quite often deadly. The alternative to deadly force is non deadly force. Shoot a fleeing thief in the leg...Opps, big mistake. Now there are two stories, his and yours, and chances are after he sues you he will own what he was trying to steal from you. Deadly force, one story, yours.....A fine line here, and each situation would be very different. This is a big deal to LE in their daily task of just doing their job.....I think the Texas shooter should have had a drop gun handy, even if it was a toy gun. The fact that he shouted out a warning may just save his ass, although I doubt a warning is necessary in Texas. Texas is like a whole different country. Don't mess with Texas........Is that an answer?.........MP

[YeLLowBoaT]

Again, not worth killing over in my opinion.
If your kid stole from you would you shoot him?
there is a big diffrence between some punk stealing from you and your kid.
you don't like people shooting people, we get it.

[thumbs]

I don't think anyone here wants to kill anyone. Talk is cheap. If it came right down to it I doubt any talkers would be killing anyone running away from a vehicular break in. They might want to in hindsight, but actully pulling the trigger, I doubt it.
This is partly my point. Everyone wants to be all vigilante like say kill the focker. But flip the script and no one can give a straight answer to a direct question. This is because if they answered honestly they look like a hypocrite.

[thumbs]

there is a big diffrence between some punk stealing from you and your kid.
What is the difference? It's OK for your kid to steal but not someone else's. That punk could be your kid.

[YeLLowBoaT]

What is the difference? It's OK for your kid to steal but not someone else's. That punk could be your kid.
no its not ok for my kid to steal from me, but unlike some punk kid, I'm not responsible for some punk off the street, I am responsible for my kid...
after all they have to come home some time, when they do a ass whopping is waiting for them.

[topless]

What is the difference? It's OK for your kid to steal but not someone else's. That punk could be your kid.Yeah but did he dine and dash? That right there should get a cap popped in his ass.

[ratso]

This is partly my point. Everyone wants to be all vigilante like say kill the focker. But flip the script and no one can give a straight answer to a direct question. This is because if they answered honestly they look like a hypocrite.
I already stated it would be hard for me to shoot someone... but I'll be damned if I'm gonna condemn someone for having the balls to do it and get another piece of shit off the street.

[Jbb]

This is partly my point. Everyone wants to be all vigilante like say kill the focker. But flip the script and no one can give a straight answer to a direct question. This is because if they answered honestly they look like a hypocrite.
:p

[thumbs]

:p
Ouch. That one was deep....lol:)

[YeLLowBoaT]

I think this fits here
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x23/red-rider_1911nut/bangun.gif

[Old Texan]

Here's the link to the live 911 call. Joe Horn, "Move, you're dead....." Boom, Boom, Boom!
And 2 burgulars are no more.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5538780

[topless]

Here's the link to the live 911 call. Joe Horn, "Move, you're dead....." Boom, Boom, Boom!
And 2 burgulars are no more.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5538780I want Joe Horn in my neiborhood.:)

[Old Texan]

I want Joe Horn in my neiborhood.:)
He was determined that no one was going to rob anything in his neighborhood. I liked the statement that if they had been his other neighbor he knew real well, he'd have already been over there stopping the breakin.
It appears from what I can tell on the tape and what information has been released, that Horn was in his yard and the perps came through the gate onto his property.
So far the "legal experts" speaking through the media have felt he should be within his rights since he was on his property and the thieves approached him.
Joe Horn had a gun and Joe Horn had no second thoughts in using it to protect his life and his neighbor's property. This wasn't a case of mischievous teenagers breaking into cars. These were "professional" thieves all to common to urban areas that case the neighborhood and break into homes when the occupants are away.
There have been several "kick in" robberies not far from this location. Hopefully those lowlifes will be aware the next door they kick in may have a Joe Horn waiting with a shotgun.
I just hope the GJ nobills ol' Joe. He's a good neighbor.

[mbrown2]

In all fairness though thumbs has a point. Pretty doubtful a trained LEO would shoot a fleeing suspect in the back unless he was positive a very serious crime had been committed and he felt the guy was an immediate threat.
I think that is part of problem as well....I am not looking for Rambo cops, but the legal system has put too many restrictions on cops and in doing so the criminals know there are less consequences to pay....if the criminals knew that cops may put them in the ground, maybe they would be more deterred to commit a crime.

[Jbb]

Here's the link to the live 911 call. Joe Horn, "Move, you're dead....." Boom, Boom, Boom!
And 2 burgulars are no more.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5538780
One thing is for sure.....those two scumbags wont be robbing anyone else.....bang.....bang!........

[seanv]

JOE HORNE is a focking AMERICAN CITIZEN! the scum had i.d's from other countries. they were caught in the act of theft. sorry they didnt understand "move your dead". great job mr. horne wish more in this country had a spine

[Bite the Bullet]

Something to think about before you drop the hammer...most law enforcement agencies have what's known as a shooting policy...listed below are a few examples:
1. Background - what's behind your crook...kids, school, church, block wall...remember, the round you fire is most likely lethal up to a mile.
2. Age of suspect
3. Last Resort - what other options do you have.
4. Knowledge that a crime occurred - No guessing permitted!
5. Seriousness of the crime
All of the above goes out the window if the suspect is pointing a gun at you, a loved one or if your lives are in imminent danger!!!

[Sleek-Jet]

Yeah, you're right... Even scumbags have mothers... :rolleyes:
If my son/daughter got shot and killed in the middle of commiting a crime (like breaking and entering)... while I would mourn my loss, I can say from this vantage point that I would not blame the person pulling the trigger. Not that the guy would become my best buddy, but I wouldn't hold him or her accountable anymore than the law would.
Crimes have consequences...
Do you think that theft should be punishable by death?
I believe that everyone has a right to protect his or her property... if they feel the need and are within their rights to use deadly force... then so be it...
The people that commit these crimes are counting on the mentality of "I shouldn't get killed over it... "
Can anyone here actually answer the original question I asked? Here it is in case you forgot.
Do you feel that your kid deserved to die for this crime where he was not a threat to anyone at any time? Anyone care to answer rather than dodge?
Some of us already did answer it...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Everytime I read the title of this thread, it reminds me of Dane Cook.
B&E Results

[ULTRA26 # 1]

That guy is funny as hell. I saw him do a monologue on SNL that had me rolling for about 15 minutes.
He's had a show on HBO for a while now where he talks about when he got the urge to do a B&E. He's got some original stuff. :D :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Have you heard his story about shooting the cashew off the tip of his dick? :D
No, but just the thought of it made me laugh

[ULTRA26 # 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3oNVnuYYo
That was great
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDMQgs3d0kg