Progressive Boat Insurance is a RIP OFF!!!

[Giacopuzzi]

Progressive Boat Insurance is using every excuse to deny a claim for damage caused by my '05 29 Fountain comming off of the anchor Memorial Day Weekend at Havasu and washing up on shore in front of Windsor Beach. It was beaten on the shore for hours before we found it, the breakers there are huge on a big weekend and it caused the stringers to delaminate and stress cracks. DO NOT BUY INSURANCE FROM PROGRESSIVE! They will pay the small claims but if your boat really gets damaged they will do everything in thier power to deny the claim. Even the Fountain factory agrees that they are totally wrong. They originally stated it was a manufacturing issue then they said it was the Magic Tilt Trailer. I'm done, it's time for litigation.

[Jordy]

It was beaten on the shore for hours before we found it, the breakers there are huge on a big weekend and it caused the stringers to delaminate and stress cracks.
The stringers delaminated from huge breakers at Havasu? Aren't Fountain's made to run in the ocean though??? :idea: :jawdrop:
Someone had better get some popcorn cooking. :)

[yopengo]

That sucks. :eek: Where did you have it anchored? Why did you leave it on a windy Havasu day? :confused:
Good luck with your litigation.

[YeLLowBoaT]

The stringers delaminated from huge breakers at Havasu? Aren't Fountain's made to run in the ocean though??? :idea: :jawdrop:
Someone had better get some popcorn cooking. :)
I think this said it all right there.
http://www.soulfulspike.com/membersavatars/smileys/pop.gif
Of corse the factory things they are wrong... if they were right they would be eating the cost of a new boat.

[No Name]

Even the Fountain factory agrees that they are totally wrong.
What a shocker……:D

[INSman]

Progressive Boat Insurance is using every excuse to deny a claim for damage caused by my '05 29 Fountain comming off of the anchor Memorial Day Weekend at Havasu and washing up on shore in front of Windsor Beach. It was beaten on the shore for hours before we found it, the breakers there are huge on a big weekend and it caused the stringers to delaminate and stress cracks. DO NOT BUY INSURANCE FROM PROGRESSIVE! They will pay the small claims but if your boat really gets damaged they will do everything in thier power to deny the claim. Even the Fountain factory agrees that they are totally wrong. They originally stated it was a manufacturing issue then they said it was the Magic Tilt Trailer. I'm done, it's time for litigation.
PM thecardudes here on Hb, he has a good attorney referral for you. I would make sure to cc: the Dept. of Insurance and the Insurance Commissioner for your state as well.

[ChumpChange]

3 posts and a bash. :idea:
This isn't a Newbie coming on to bash though, unless he created his screen name back in February of 2006 in order to one day bash. It was all his master plan.

[RiverDave]

Progressive Boat Insurance is using every excuse to deny a claim for damage caused by my '05 29 Fountain comming off of the anchor Memorial Day Weekend at Havasu and washing up on shore in front of Windsor Beach. It was beaten on the shore for hours before we found it, the breakers there are huge on a big weekend and it caused the stringers to delaminate and stress cracks. DO NOT BUY INSURANCE FROM PROGRESSIVE! They will pay the small claims but if your boat really gets damaged they will do everything in thier power to deny the claim. Even the Fountain factory agrees that they are totally wrong. They originally stated it was a manufacturing issue then they said it was the Magic Tilt Trailer. I'm done, it's time for litigation.
I'm assuming that's your boat in the avatar and signiature? Why would you need a tilt trailer for a V-Bottom? Any pics of the damage, stringer delamination?
By the way, not to hate, but these guys are right.. The stringers shouldn't delaminate from something like that. Especially not with any of the conditions Havasu has to offer. (I don't care how bad it is)
On the other side though, I agree with you 100% on progressive. My girlfriend was in the middle of a pile up (car rear ended her and pushed her into the car ahead of her etc..) She had progressive and some back injuries as a result of the accident. Progressive got to the point of putting her on "permanent hold" not answering or returning her calls, and every other scum bag low life thing you can think of.. She ended up having to sue to get her medical bills paid.. Incidentally she "settled" went to the dr's as much as she could with the money she got, and still to this day has back problems as a result. F progressive.
RD

[Havasu1986]

I'm assuming that's your boat in the avatar and signiature? Why would you need a tilt trailer for a V-Bottom? Any pics of the damage, stringer delamination?
By the way, not to hate, but these guys are right.. The stringers shouldn't delaminate from something like that. Especially not with any of the conditions Havasu has to offer. (I don't care how bad it is)
On the other side though, I agree with you 100% on progressive. My girlfriend was in the middle of a pile up (car rear ended her and pushed her into the car ahead of her etc..) She had progressive and some back injuries as a result of the accident. Progressive got to the point of putting her on "permanent hold" not answering or returning her calls, and every other scum bag low life thing you can think of.. She ended up having to sue to get her medical bills paid.. Incidentally she "settled" went to the dr's as much as she could with the money she got, and still to this day has back problems as a result. F progressive.
RD
In his 1st quote he said that the boat was being beating up on the shore before he found the boat. Would that make a difference. :confused:

[ratso]

Being in the boat and fiberglass repair business, and also not seeing what exactly happened or the damage to the boat, I still highly doubt that this incident caused the stringers to break loose, unless they were already weak or a factory flaw... I am sure they are willing to repair the fiberglass and gelcoat damage etc... but they have some fairly sharp individuals with that company (at least in this part of the country) and I deal with them on a regular basis. Not to say you are trying to "scam" Progressive, so don't take it that way, but in my 34 years being around this business, I've seen every trick in the book. Progressive Agents have always been straight up honest with me, even though they and the customers might not always see eye to eye. My advice, get another opinion from another repair shop before you fly off the handle and blame what could have been a pre existing condition on your insurance company. I would be glad to look at any and all pics you might have. If you don't want it to turn into another ***boat bashing thread, then PM me for my email. ;)

[W.O.T]

Is it the insurance companys fault that the boat wasnt anchored properly or good enough? Will they cover that? I usually use Progressive for my jet boat. Never had to file anything though

[ratso]

...and also, is it the repair shop saying the stringers delaminated or broke loose? Is there access to actually see this now, or is it just an educated guess from the marine shop?

[HM]

Is it the insurance companys fault that the boat wasnt anchored properly or good enough? Will they cover that? I usually use Progressive for my jet boat. Never had to file anything though
That is a good thing...because they don't insure boats with over the transom headers. If you ever had a claim, they would cancel your insurance as soon as they discovered them and deny the claim even if your claim had nothing to do with your headers.

[DEMOMAN]

I think that a boat of this weight would take severe damage from being lifted up 3' and dropped on to the beach for several hours. There is a big difference between landing in water while running through rollers and getting slammed onto the beach. Give the guy a break.

[Big Warlock]

I think Kachina uses a Fountain bottom? :D

[W.O.T]

That is a good thing...because they don't insure boats with over the transom headers. If you ever had a claim, they would cancel your insurance as soon as they discovered them and deny the claim even if your claim had nothing to do with your headers.
Really? i was suprised when they didnt ask about the exhaust! I had to give some slightly (off) Hp and top speed numbers. I just cancelled my policy about a month ago. I will be more careful next time i purchase insurance. Thanks
Goodluck with your claim.

[Jordy]

Give the guy a break.
A beak, oh, break. :D :D :D
I believe everyone is just looking for a little more info here as the story, as written, doesn't make alot of sense, and not that post numbers give you credibility, but stuff like this with 3 posts is a little harder to swallow in light of some of the recent creativity on the boards. ;)

[RiverDave]

Boats all off of trailers on the freeway and stringers don't delaminate. Hell there was one guy on here that jumped his Nordic up an embankment, over a picnic table (cleared it completely) and landed skidding to a halt, and other then some gelcoat scratches the boat was fine.
If the stringers broke loose, then that's a factory defect, or this boat had some serious abuse long before it broke free from the anchor.
RD

[HDF WATERDOG]

I was at Windsor Memorial Day and though the week. Some of the biggest breakers I ever saw, maybe two foot at the most. I don't see stringers delaminating. BTW, I have Progressive too.

[DeltaSigBoater]

The stringers delaminating/breaking loose could’ve been caused by a multitude of things that happened or didn’t happen, when the boat was being built. The boat being pounded by both the waves and the shore, probably accelerated the delamination. Definitely sounds like a factory defect. Of course a manufacture is going to say different in order to avoid paying out the money for the warranty repair work.
just my $.02

[BadKachina]

Do a search on OSO, I've seen a couple of threads where the stringers delaminate from the transoms and bulkheads in Fountains. They use plywood laminated stringers and bulkheads which are fine as long as there aren't any holes or areas where they can take in water. I know I've seen the pics where they are cracked right at the transom, I couldn't find the thread since it's been a while. I'll keep looking and see what I can find, but I think it's happened before, it's probably not from washing up on shore.

[Washed Ashore]

Being in the boat and fiberglass repair business, and also not seeing what exactly happened or the damage to the boat, I still highly doubt that this incident caused the stringers to break loose, unless they were already weak or a factory flaw... I am sure they are willing to repair the fiberglass and gelcoat damage etc... but they have some fairly sharp individuals with that company (at least in this part of the country) and I deal with them on a regular basis. Not to say you are trying to "scam" Progressive, so don't take it that way, but in my 34 years being around this business, I've seen every trick in the book. Progressive Agents have always been straight up honest with me, even though they and the customers might not always see eye to eye. My advice, get another opinion from another repair shop before you fly off the handle and blame what could have been a pre existing condition on your insurance company. I would be glad to look at any and all pics you might have. If you don't want it to turn into another ***boat bashing thread, then PM me for my email. ;)
I also am in the repair industry and we currently repair an average of 260 boats a year.The majority of work we do is insurance.Progressive ins. is with out a doubt the best company to deal with,We deal with adjusters that know there shit and rarely have to wrestle with them on price.I also would like to see pic's of the damage,If its legit I can get it covered.If there is an issue on the delamination that I feel is a warranty,I can work with the factory to get it resolved.
Jeff Glow
Smooth as Glass
(209)869-3545

[Luckie Stiff]

The stringers delaminated from huge breakers at Havasu? Aren't Fountain's made to run in the ocean though??? :idea: :jawdrop:
:)
That's what I was thinking??? :confused:

[HM]

It sounds like this is the Natalie Wood Fountain that doesn't like to take showers...
She prefers to wash up on shore. :jawdrop: :D

[ratso]

I also am in the repair industry and we currently repair an average of 260 boats a year.The majority of work we do is insurance.Progressive ins. is with out a doubt the best company to deal with,We deal with adjusters that know there shit and rarely have to wrestle with them on price.I also would like to see pic's of the damage,If its legit I can get it covered.If there is an issue on the delamination that I feel is a warranty,I can work with the factory to get it resolved.
Jeff Glow
Smooth as Glass
(209)869-3545
Jeff... All of our experiences with them go very well. The adjusters follow up on jobs for the customer and try their best to take care of all parties involved. I just don't see Progressive trying to outright screw anyone, but I suppose everyone has their stories if they personally don't feel they are getting what they deserve. My advice is that hopefully they will bring the boat to you for another opinion and everyone can come to a satisfactory agreement. I know I once had to argue with an insurance company for three months to get an issue resolved, and others even after the job was completed, I have had to wait a couple of months for a check. With Progressive, they almost always show up the same day or next, and in 99% of the cases, they cut me a check right there on the spot. That my friends is service, and no other company has topped that.

[OCMerrill]

I will say this Progressive does suck. Weather the boat had issues or not the company is CRAP.
I had them when we first bought our motor home. One year old coach and we had a rear blowout. Progressive said the tire came apart under warranty...Firestone (Liars within themselves) said Impact damage.
We rode that "tastes great...less filling" bull shit for over 4 months. Fawk it, and wrote a check to have the coach fixed. About $3k
Now for the kicker...Progressive raised our rates the next year because we had a claim they NEVER paid on.
Fock Progressive. They are a Horse's Ass.

[ratso]

I will say this Progressive does suck. Weather the boat had issues or not the company is CRAP.
I had them when we first bought our motor home. One year old coach and we had a rear blowout. Progressive said the tire came apart under warranty...Firestone (Liars within themselves) said Impact damage.
We rode that "tastes great...less filling" bull shit for over 4 months. Fawk it, and wrote a check to have the coach fixed. About $3k
Now for the kicker...Progressive raised our rates the next year because we had a claim they NEVER paid on.
Fock Progressive. They are a Horse's Ass.
A Firestone that came apart? No way!:D

[boat boy]

Something’s wrong with delamination, back in the late 90's. My boat partners at that time a I owned a 17' four winds, they had it at lake mead...got caught up in a monsoon...boat was anchored bow and stern tight to the beach...the swells crashed over the open bow and eventually dumped enough water into the boat to cause the bow anchor to break loose and the boat swung into the rocky shore line causing all kinds of damage including actually sinking the boat...this was only a cheap four winds no lamination to the stringers. The insurance company wound up totaling the boat.

[ClownRoyal]

Something’s wrong with delamination, back in the late 90's. My boat partners at that time a I owned a 17' four winds, they had it at lake mead...got caught up in a monsoon...boat was anchored bow and stern tight to the beach...the swells crashed over the open bow and eventually dumped enough water into the boat to cause the bow anchor to break loose and the boat swung into the rocky shore line causing all kinds of damage including actually sinking the boat...this was only a cheap four winds no lamination to the stringers. The insurance company wound up totaling the boat.
You priced a new Four Winns lately? You would think they were custom built.

[OCMerrill]

A Firestone that came apart? No way!:D
Stupid me...I continued to run them as they were new right? Placed that nice spare on there and rolled on...Guess what? ...again an inner rear dual except on the drivers side about a year later. Fock! Oh the memories.
In the end I had three major tread peels while the carcus's still held air. Firestone was never to blame. Every time damage to the coach.
I did tons of research on forums and the net on what will hold up. I now run...Michelin XPS Ribs. Motorhome and my boxtrucks all have these tires now. Expensive.
I won't even buy a Bridgestone tire. Fock that whole company.

[Giacopuzzi]

I can understand that you guys think I'm some kind of scammer but it just isn't true. This is what happened. I bought this '05 Reggie Fountain Special Edition Fever single with only 43 hours on the hull and the 500EFI computer in August '05 from a guy at Lake Tahoe that had just bought a nice 35’ Fountain Lightning. The boat looked and drove like new. Absolutely Perfect! It had a like new aluminum I beam Magic Tilt trailer. I called Magic Tilt and the trailer was the correct one for the boat. I contacted the Fountain dealer in Northern California for a history. They knew the boat, just minor warranty work. All good! I love the boat!
I use the boat at Saguaro Lake outside of Phoenix, a small lake in Arizona. I wash the boat every time in and wipe it down every time out of the water so I would have noticed any stress cracks if they had started prior to this incident. It had 105 hours on it this second trip to Havasu since I owned it. I launched at 12:30 to 1:00AM Saturday night to avoid the launch line in the AM. I then moored it on a decent anchor in front of Windsor. Probably a stupid move on my part! It was a solid mooring in my opinion. I stayed on the boat 2 hours trying to sleep unsuccessfully. Then I decided to go back to the hotel for some Zs.
We came back after breakfast around 7:30. Found that the anchor had broken lose and the boat was straight on the shore. As it took six guys 30 plus minutes to get it off the shore it was being lifted and dropped repetitively onto a solid sand and rocky shore. And there was this 10 inch through the gelcoat scratch high up on the front port side. I couldn’t understand where that could have come from? There was nothing high enough on the beach to scratch it there? Maybe it was knocked off the anchor in the dark I don't know? I have no idea what happened other than the anchor had broken lose.
After I got it back on the trailer there were not only scratches and gouges on the very bottom but stress cracks in front of the bulk head on either side underneath and on the lower port side. The drive and prop were also torn up really good. The Insurance adjuster said there are no impact marks in the stress cracked areas. Progressive says it’s a manufacturer issue. So I contacted Martin Sanborne at Fountain for feedback (5 year hull warranty). He basically sent an email back saying the boat was not built to be dropped onto the beach. So then Progressive phoned me and stated that they agreed to pay for the structural damage, verbally. Meanwhile the shop Phoenix Fiberglass was backlogged and put me off for 2 months then 3 then 4. The upholsterer was unavailable etc etc... The insurance company and Phoenix Fiberglass say use the boat for the summer and I do.
Finally I get it into the shop 3 weeks ago. The upholsterer pulls the cabin interior out. Then a new Progressive adjuster comes back to look at the boat again and decides that they won't cover the structural damage. They say I need to authorize the shop to cut the cabin interior floor to verify just what the problem is, which I do. We find the delaminated stringers. Progressive says manufacturer problem. I contact Fountain again they say the same thing, most likely caused by the beach.
The next week the adjuster says it’s possibly caused by the trailer? The trailer has a warped six foot 2x6 rail on the lower port section of the hull, yet is still supporting the boat at the mount points. How much support can a 2x6 on it's side support anyway except at the mount points? The Progressive adjuster says they will contact Fountain again and send pictures. They never did so. Now Progressive won't pay for the upholsterer either. What sucks is that they originally agreed to pay for the damage and now are backpedaling. Even the Progressive adjuster (Great Guy) says they should just take care of it "It's just a check". He said yesterday it’s his manager that is denying the structural damage and this manager has never even seen the boat, only pictures. In my opinion the Progressive manager is looking for any excuse to deny the structural damage claim. I get a call this afternoon from the claims handler saying they are denying the structural damage.
What am I supposed to do at this point? I don't know if it is or isn't a manufacturer issue. But the cracks were not there prior to the beach incident. Do I drop another $15K into a boat that is supposed to be covered by my insurance policy and a worthless Fountain Hull Warranty? This totally sucks!

[YeLLowBoaT]

I'm just wondering, what exactly does the fountain warrenty say?
I would also get a 2nd "IMO" about what cuased the stress cracks and delam... your going to need that anyways if you want to take this to litigation

[ratso]

Get a 2nd opinion definitely. It does sound like you have a case, and no matter how good a company might be, you do run across dicks as it seems his manager is being. If the stringers show no signs of rot damage, which on an 05 is highly highly unlikely... then this has to fall on the shoulders of Progressive or Fountain. If nothing can be resolved after another "expert" opinion, you only have 2 choices... pay for it yourself or take them all to court. Once again also, I tried to stress in my post that I wasn't claiming you to be a scammer. I just see a lot of it in this business and the insurance companies are getting some qualified people out there to check things over finally. Sounds like Jeff at "Smooth As Glass" might be able to help you out.;)

[Havasu Hangin']

The insurance company should pay the claim, then fight with the manufacturer if they feel it is caused by them.
They make ALOT of money from your premiums...the least they could do is spend a little back doing what's right for their policyholder.

[Giacopuzzi]

I totally agree! Anybody know of a good shop I could take it to in the Phoenix area for a second opinion? I was thinking of Extreme Marine but I'm not sure if they have their own fiberglass shop in house? Sun Valley is the only other one I can think of. I did send Jeff my email so when I get his I'll send pictures. I do appreciate the feedback!

[DCB]

I know it might be a bit of a drive, but if it were my boat, I would be taking it to Jeff. Even if you end up having to pay for it yourself, you will have a piece of mind that jeff will fix it correctly

[Rvr Swpr]

[QUOTE
Jeff Glow
Smooth as Glass
(209)869-3545[/QUOTE]
ROOTBEER FLOAT, Best restoration I've seen,incredible.

[C-2]

How rough was the water at 1:00 a.m.?
You left the boat at 3:00 a.m. – so the boat was only tossed around for 4.5 hours?
Was the boat sideways on shore?

[C-2]

And maybe BoatPI could help sort it out - doesn't he work for an adjuster?

[Giacopuzzi]

If I remember correctly, the conditions when I left it were very light chop with a slight wind from the West. I was moored nose out to the West. Obviously a big mistake on my part!
When I found the boat it was nose straight in to shore East just South of the North ramp of Windsor. It had dug a v trench in the sand and rocks. Anchor totally broken lose and rope lose but still tied to bow eye. Big boat wakes and a stronger wind from the West. As I said it was being lifted and droped onto the beach with every wave.

[earl-bob]

All Ins Is A Joke

[Patyacht]

And there was this 10 inch through the gelcoat scratch high up on the front port side. I couldn’t understand where that could have come from? There was nothing high enough on the beach to scratch it there? Maybe it was knocked off the anchor in the dark I don't know? I have no idea what happened other than the anchor had broken lose.
Maybe someone ran into the boat, or just maybe someone went for a joy ride and left the boat on the rocks..... Just some possibilities!! :idea: :idea:

[DansBlown73Nordic]

I would never in a million years leave a row boat let alone a expensive boat like a Fountain alone for 4 1/2 hours. You must have ROCKS IN YOUR HEAD!!!!:idea:
That boat cost 75Gs or more. You leave it tied to a anchor for 4 1/2 hours so you don't have to deal with a line at the launch ramp....:rolleyes: :confused: :sqeyes:

[AZJD]

I also am in the repair industry and we currently repair an average of 260 boats a year.The majority of work we do is insurance.Progressive ins. is with out a doubt the best company to deal with,We deal with adjusters that know there shit and rarely have to wrestle with them on price.I also would like to see pic's of the damage,If its legit I can get it covered.If there is an issue on the delamination that I feel is a warranty,I can work with the factory to get it resolved.
Jeff Glow
Smooth as Glass
(209)869-3545
Wow, your screen name is so appropriate for this thread.:D :D :D

[BoatPI]

Todd's office does not do much work for Progressive directly. I would suggest that you call Todd and discuss this with him and mention that I refered you. With this amount damage involvement of an experienced surveyer is needed. He also knows Reggie and has done work for Fountain too. A surveyer recgonized nationally like Todd may make your case.
www.boatman.com
Look at the site, the level of experience speaks for itself. Perhaps you can convince Progressive to pay for an inspection and report, if not you may consider paying for it yourself. Todd is one of the best in the world, and he will not lead you down a road just for your $. Good luck.

[KLEPTOW]

I will say this Progressive does suck. Weather the boat had issues or not the company is CRAP.
I had them when we first bought our motor home. One year old coach and we had a rear blowout. Progressive said the tire came apart under warranty...Firestone (Liars within themselves) said Impact damage.
We rode that "tastes great...less filling" bull shit for over 4 months. Fawk it, and wrote a check to have the coach fixed. About $3k
Progressive didn't pay because unless you've been living in cave somewhere, ever one knows Firestones tires never coming apart, it's always the owners fault.
Just ask me i've only had 2 sets come apart and the 3rd set is cracking after only 2 years and just over 22,000 miles, but it's all my fault.
But as long as they keep paying them claims they can keep coming apart maybe they will figure out it aint worth it.
Now for the kicker...Progressive raised our rates the next year because we had a claim they NEVER paid on.
I'll bet they knew you didn't take the Firestones off your rig and that you would be back.
Fock Progressive. They are a Horse's Ass.
Oh by the way not to rub salt in your wound but Firestone paid me just short of 4 grand for the damage to the Bed of my F-250 pick & a new set of removable tread tires.
p.s. I had the check in about 4 weeks.

[ratso]

Wow, your screen name is so appropriate for this thread.:D :D :D
:idea:

[Washed Ashore]

Todd's office does not do much work for Progressive directly. I would suggest that you call Todd and discuss this with him and mention that I refered you. With this amount damage involvement of an experienced surveyer is needed. He also knows Reggie and has done work for Fountain too. A surveyer recgonized nationally like Todd may make your case.
www.boatman.com
Look at the site, the level of experience speaks for itself. Perhaps you can convince Progressive to pay for an inspection and report, if not you may consider paying for it yourself. Todd is one of the best in the world, and he will not lead you down a road just for your $. Good luck.
Great Advice,A letter from Pheonix Fiberglass would also be in your best interest.
Jeff Glow
smoothasglass@sbcglobal.net

[thatguy]

I have found Progressive to be pretty fair and informative if you ask detailed questions. They also have covered items of mine that USAA (Our primary insurer) would not cover. Like out of state RVs and the like.
I had no problem getting claims on some minor damage at least. (Just over $1500.00)
Tommy

[OCMerrill]

Oh by the way not to rub salt in your wound but Firestone paid me just short of 4 grand for the damage to the Bed of my F-250 pick & a new set of removable tread tires.
p.s. I had the check in about 4 weeks.
When was this?
This was back in 1999-2000 in my case. A class action lawsuit developed later on I understand. I was asked to send the bad tires to a law firm and did that but never did follow up.
Firestone changed the Steeltex name to Transforce because of all the bad press. Glad you got something out of it.
Maybe it's a better company now.:idea: :rolleyes:

[squirt'nmyload]

i'm pretty sure i've seen this boat out at saguaro quite a few times. i think i even ran across the lake next to you once. nice boat and i hope you get this worked out :)

[Giacopuzzi]

The shop Jim Hess at Phoenix Fiberglass says he wants to stay neutral and wants to stay out of it. His statement to me is basically that he can only say there is damage but does not want to say to me what he thinks the root cause was. Yet it was his original assessment to the Progressive adjuster that the structural damage could possibly have been a manufacturing issue. He also said after cutting out the floor that Fountain applied to dry a laminate to stick to the stringers. However he abandoned that theory after I insisted he call Martin Sanborne at Fountain to discuss the cause. Then after that call it was also him that suggested to Progressive that it may be the trailer not supporting the boat correctly. An idea he got from Martin Sanborne. He does a lot of business for Progressive and it seems he wants to buddy up with them. He just was reauthorized after my boat arrived the first time at his shop in June to be an approved repair shop for Progressive. That pretty much says it all! He has been absolutely no help other than telling me I owe him money for cutting the floor out of the boat and lifting it off the trailer for inspection. As I mentioned I now also owe for the upholsterer removing the cabin interior. I asked Jim for an estimate for repairing the structural, attached (Lots of hours). This estimate does not include the original estimate to fix the bottom of the boat $7K (Non Structural, nicks and scratches) or the upholsterer to R&R the interior.
By the way, Jim Hess also stated that if the boat was foam filled it would have never come apart. Now as part of the repair he wants to foam fill the stringer area even though Fountain never used foam. I would think Fountain knows what they are doing. In my opinion the foam if wet could cause damage.

[ratso]

The shop Jim Hess at Phoenix Fiberglass says he wants to stay neutral and wants to stay out of it. His statement to me is basically that he can only say there is damage but does not want to say to me what he thinks the root cause was. Yet it was his original assessment to the Progressive adjuster that the structural damage could possibly have been a manufacturing issue. He also said after cutting out the floor that Fountain applied to dry a laminate to stick to the stringers. However he abandoned that theory after I insisted he call Martin Sanborne at Fountain to discuss the cause. Then after that call it was also him that suggested to Progressive that it may be the trailer not supporting the boat correctly. An idea he got from Martin Sanborne. He does a lot of business for Progressive and it seems he wants to buddy up with them. He just was reauthorized after my boat arrived the first time at his shop in June to be an approved repair shop for Progressive. That pretty much says it all! He has been absolutely no help other than telling me I owe him money for cutting the floor out of the boat and lifting it off the trailer for inspection. As I mentioned I now also owe for the upholsterer removing the cabin interior. I asked Jim for an estimate for repairing the structural, attached (Lots of hours). This estimate does not include the original estimate to fix the bottom of the boat $7K (Non Structural, nicks and scratches) or the upholsterer to R&R the interior.
By the way, Jim Hess also stated that if the boat was foam filled it would have never come apart. Now as part of the repair he wants to foam fill the stringer area even though Fountain never used foam. I would think Fountain knows what they are doing. In my opinion the foam if wet could cause damage.
I hate foam filled boats. Every one we tear into is waterlogged. If the laminate is dry, that can definitely cause the stringers to come loose. I would make the trip to "Smooth As Glass"... Bottom line, Fountain or Progressive should cover it. Saying that if the boat was foam filled then this would have never happened... is bullshit. Is he trying to say the foam would cover up a "shit layup job"?:rolleyes:

[Giacopuzzi]

That was exactly what I thought! I believe the foam is BS. And also if the dry laminate actually is an issue then why did it tear the stringer surfaces appart when it came apart? I need to get some pictures posted so you can see what I mean. I need to publish them on one of my sites later today.

[BoatPI]

This has alot to do with expertise. We can all guess what the cause and effect was for what specifically occurred, but a well trained marine surveyer is needed.
If this ever occurs in the Havasu area many of you know another well respected surveyer in Bullhead, Bill Dials.
www.boatman.com

[Washed Ashore]

[QUOTE=Giacopuzzi;2909291]The shop Jim Hess at Phoenix Fiberglass says he wants to stay neutral and wants to stay out of it.
Well,???????????
I do not understand this at all:confused: There is a cause and effect on all accidents!!!! I stand behind what I believe.If the damage is caused by the accident or if its cause by poor craftmans ship,I will call it as I see it.I do not need any single account to stay in bussiness.I am loyal to my customer,no matter who's toes I step on!!!!Progressive is a big account,If they are wrong, they are wrong.I do not degrade, if you ask me if its shit? i'm going to tell you its shit!!
Jeff Glow

[Giacopuzzi]

Jeff Glow,
Thanks for taking the time from your day to look at the pictures and call me with your take on the damages, it was a great help! If I can't find a decent shop here in Phoenix I will definately roll the boat up to Smooth as Glass.
Jay

[pvhca]

Take your boat to Fiberglass Reformations in Lake Havasu 928-855-0877, they have an excellent reputation. I haven't used them in over 3 years but everyone in the repair business in Havasu basically reccommends them. Just my 2 cents. Might be worth another opinion.

[Debbolas]

I think Kachina uses a Fountain bottom? :D
You guys are getting slow.............19 posts before you mention Kachina ;)
Kachina Boat insurance is my FAVORITE :D

[Moneypitt]

I would never in a million years leave a row boat let alone a expensive boat like a Fountain alone for 4 1/2 hours. You must have ROCKS IN YOUR HEAD!!!!:idea:
That boat cost 75Gs or more. You leave it tied to a anchor for 4 1/2 hours so you don't have to deal with a line at the launch ramp....:rolleyes: :confused: :sqeyes:
These are my thoughts exactly. What were you thinking?.....:confused:
If you were insured against your own negligence, hire a lawyer to do all this arguing for you. Don't wait, the stress and strain of this will take it's toll on you, let the lawyer call the insurance company and do what ever it is lawyers do........MP

[Dave C]

sounds like you need an expert to make the determination that will hopefully settle the dispute. I would strongly recommend that you get an expert assessment NOW in writing because it sounds like its headed in that direction.
Protect yourself.
Besides the expert's assessment may in fact move this along to resolution. The parties are pointing fingers at each other now and the guilty party won't have a legal leg to stand upon once the expert makes a determination.
It will also be evidence in your suit against the guilty party.
good luck.
BTW IMHO get a survey and take it to Jeff. :devil:

[Racey]

Progessive sucks and on top of that they are a complete rip off!!! their motorcycle insurance is astronomical, i had a buddy that was an adjuster for them, he was checking random prices for himself one day, they wanted more money to insure him on an yamaha R1 than to insure him in a brand new z06 :eek:, every other insurance company was less than half the money to insure the bike. after seeing that quote i told myself these guys are out of their heads.

[ratso]

Progessive sucks and on top of that they are a complete rip off!!! their motorcycle insurance is astronomical, i had a buddy that was an adjuster for them, he was checking random prices for himself one day, they wanted more money to insure him on an yamaha R1 than to insure him in a brand new z06 :eek:, every other insurance company was less than half the money to insure the bike. after seeing that quote i told myself these guys are out of their heads.
Yeah, probably because most Vettes I see are running the speed limit, and most people that ride things like an R1 are running 100 mph over the speed limit. I wouldn't insure any of those idiots either...;)

[DeepVee]

I hate to mention this since this probably is not the boat but isn't there still an ongoing effort to find a damaged Fountain that was involved in an fatal accident last summer on Havasu?

[ratso]

I hate to mention this since this probably is not the boat but isn't there still an ongoing effort to find a damaged Fountain that was involved in an fatal accident last summer on Havasu?
I think it was a white one...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I think it was a white one...
You're right it was a white one.

[Giacopuzzi]

Do you believe this sh*t! The surveyer hired by Progressive and for the benifit of Progressive states this to prove thier case in court;
"7. CONCLUSION
7.1 The damage to the vessel described in par.5.3 and as itemized on Progressives' estimate of 26 October, 2007 are a result of the vessels grounding and attempts to refloat.
7.2. The cracks in the gelcoat and delamination and bonding issues are more than likely due to the vessel being improperly supported by its trailer in those areas. These issues were probably exacerbated by the working and increased stresses on the already stressed hull anytime the vessel proceeded at speed in a seaway."
I am not understanding how not supporting the boat in the areas of damage could possibly have anything to do with the fiberglass being ripped off the stringers. In my mind there had to be impact to cause this!
The conclusion is
DON'T BUY PROGRESSIVE INSURANCE IT'S A RIP OFF!!!!!!!!

[ratso]

Do you believe this sh*t! The surveyer hired by Progressive and for the benifit of Progressive states this to prove thier case in court;
"7. CONCLUSION
7.1 The damage to the vessel described in par.5.3 and as itemized on Progressives' estimate of 26 October, 2007 are a result of the vessels grounding and attempts to refloat.
7.2. The cracks in the gelcoat and delamination and bonding issues are more than likely due to the vessel being improperly supported by its trailer in those areas. These issues were probably exacerbated by the working and increased stresses on the already stressed hull anytime the vessel proceeded at speed in a seaway."
I am not understanding how not supporting the boat in the areas of damage could possibly have anything to do with the fiberglass being ripped off the stringers. In my mind there had to be impact to cause this!
The conclusion is
DON'T BUY PROGRESSIVE INSURANCE IT'S A RIP OFF!!!!!!!!
I would keep fighting it...

[ColeTR2]

I'm done, it's time for litigation.
Glad to hear you're going to fight back ....

[meaniam]

Even if the trailor did the damage. It is still damage. Would that still be covered. I would think so. Even if the trailor was wrong and it was his stupidity I heard insurance has to pay. Hell a board could break away from the trailor and insurance would have to cover it. Or at least thats what I thought.
Hell I pay insurance for everybodys f-ups including mine.
First it sounds like you need to speak with the surveyor. Have him explain the findings. and how it affects you. and how to prevent it in the future.
Then I would find a diffrent repair shop. You are the customer not the insurance company. They may cut the check, But your premium pays for it. and without you there would be no work. Having a shop tell you they are afraid to tell you what your damage is and what he belives cuased it. There is no way he can be nuetral with that attuide. Speak what you honestly belive. and there will be no recourse. Insurance copanies dont place buisness. Customers do.
Toss that shop.

[ratso]

Post up some pics or shoot me an email, especially with it sitting on the trailer and the damage sustained from it beating on the rocks.

[Giacopuzzi]

Check this out!!!
I spoke with Joe the owner of Malich Motors in Tacoma, Washington. They are the only Fountain dealer on the west coast and the one that sold the boat new. As you will recall, Progressive and now the Progressive Surveyor are saying the rail on my trailer that is a 2x6 about 10 feet long that is mounted at the ends and is slightly warped in the middle, caused the damage by not supporting the hull properly. How much support can a 2x6x10 laying on its side support when one can flex it with one hand? Joe at Malich says that the rail the surveyor says is not supporting the boat properly is only there as a guide to load the boat. Joe states that he believes there is no possible way that the warped rail has anything to do with the damage. This just shows the extent Progressive will go to not to pay for damages they owe for.
And it appears that the policy will not pay for damage to the boat caused by the trailer. They will only pay for damage caused by a collision. Another thing, if the boat or trailer are damaged during transport, it is not covered either? I can't believe they are able to sell empty policies and pull shit like this!
Tomorrow I'm following up with Martin Sanborne of Fountain. I also have a call into Magic Tilt Trailers to hear their response? The Plot thickens!!!
Progressive Insurance Sucks!!!!

[INSman]

There is not really that much that should NOT be covered aside from Mfg. defects, coverage acquired by false means or information on the original application, operating while intoxicated or while in the act of committing a crime or while more than 50 miles away from shore in the ocean.
Have you read any of these specific "Exclusions" on your policy ?!?
If not already done so, you should contact the Department of Insurance in your state and put them on notice of what you think are "Bad Faith" claims settlement practices. Not sure if filing a "complaint" does the same or not.

[Giacopuzzi]

There is not really that much that should NOT be covered aside from Mfg. defects, coverage acquired by false means or information on the original application, operating while intoxicated or while in the act of committing a crime or while more than 50 miles away from shore in the ocean.
Have you read any of these specific "Exclusions" on your policy ?!?
If not already done so, you should contact the Department of Insurance in your state and put them on notice of what you think are "Bad Faith" claims settlement practices. Not sure if filing a "complaint" does the same or not.
FYI, I've read the policy over several times and called my cousin whom is an agent and sells Progressive policies in California. He verified everything I mentioned. There are little escape clauses throughout the policy.

[ratso]

Check this out!!!
I spoke with Joe the owner of Malich Motors in Tacoma, Washington. They are the only Fountain dealer on the west coast and the one that sold the boat new. As you will recall, Progressive and now the Progressive Surveyor are saying the rail on my trailer that is a 2x6 about 10 feet long that is mounted at the ends and is slightly warped in the middle, caused the damage by not supporting the hull properly. How much support can a 2x6x10 laying on its side support when one can flex it with one hand? Joe at Malich says that the rail the surveyor says is not supporting the boat properly is only there as a guide to load the boat. Joe states that he believes there is no possible way that the warped rail has anything to do with the damage. This just shows the extent Progressive will go to not to pay for damages they owe for.
And it appears that the policy will not pay for damage to the boat caused by the trailer. They will only pay for damage caused by a collision. Another thing, if the boat or trailer are damaged during transport, it is not covered either? I can't believe they are able to sell empty policies and pull shit like this!
Tomorrow I'm following up with Martin Sanborne of Fountain. I also have a call into Magic Tilt Trailers to hear their response? The Plot thickens!!!
Progressive Insurance Sucks!!!!
A 10 foot board should have at least 3 supports...