Exercising my 2nd amendment over the weekend.

[delemorte]

Mosin-Nagant 91/30
Click here to watch Mosin-Nagant-9130 (http://media.putfile.com/Mosin-Nagant-9130)

[centerhill condor]

your second amendment will be in front of the Supreme court in the not too distant future.
Nice guns...used well.
CC

[delemorte]

For a gun that is 60+ years old and shooting 30 year old ammo she was pretty darn accurate. I bought it surplus so that was the first time i had gottent to shoot it.

[delemorte]

I tell you what thought. After shooting that and the 8MM Mauser shooting the M4 was like shooting a BB gun...
As far as the supremem court goes. every politician who has gone up against the NRA has lost so i i got not fear and the NRA coninues to get my annual donation.

[CARLSON-JET]

I'm always amazed at how many of these collectables are still out there. Nice vid btw.

[centerhill condor]

As far as the supremem court goes. every politician who has gone up against the NRA has lost so i i got not fear and the NRA coninues to get my annual donation.
this is a little different...we're gonna get a ruling if you can have guns only as part of a "well regulated state militia" or as an individual. The result could be quite far reaching.
This case stems from the near banning of gun, specifically handguns, ownership in DC. I hope they will rule such that other BS gun laws will be deemed unconstitutional.
Congress's power could be reigned in a bit.
We'll see.
CC

[homelessinaz]

It reads,
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
To me and many others it is plain that the first part of this sentence,
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,..."
Is there to justify the second part of the sentence,
"...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
In plain English, this sentence means, "Hey, we're going to need an organized volunteer Army, so we're not going to keep people from owning guns, so they can be in that organized volunteer Army"
In other words, the part about a well regulated militia actually means something. It means that the essence of the second part of the sentence (we can have guns) is justified by the first part of the sentence (we're going to need an organized volunteer Army).
HOWEVER, the more pro-gun violence among us argue that the clause about a well regulated militia refers to the fact that the government will maintain an organized militia to defend our nation, and thus the average citizen will be allowed to own guns of his own in order to keep that standing government militia from practicing tyranny over the citizen.
I'll keep my remarks short and simple here...that's pure fantasy. It's pure fantasy to believe that there is a line in the constitution granting you the right to maintain an arsenal in order to overthrow the government. If you were allowed to make preparations to overthrow your government, then the anti-sedition laws, the laws forbidding membership in a group which advocates the overthrow of the United States government by force, and the numerous state laws prohibiting the formation of "Private Armies" would've been declared unconstitutional. They haven't.
This was written before we had a massive military budget, millions of armed forces members and a massive supply of weapons of mass destruction. We no longer need Minutemen standing by in the woods with their muskets at the ready to defend our nation, we have a full time military for that. In the meantime, our inisitence on clinging to the gun has had no effect other than providing a rash of unnecessary gun violence and tragedy across this land; tragedies which strike women and minorities hardest.
It is time for the citizen to realize that guns are best held in the hands of those responsible for the safety of citizens, the steady hand of government.
Enjoy your time with your antiquated rifle, delemorte, and make sure you practice well enough that you'll be able to resist your government if it becomes tyrannical. I'd love to see what your Mosin-Nagant does against an Apache-Longbow.
Homeless

[OKIE-JET]

[QUOTE=homelessinaz;
It is time for the citizen to realize that guns are best held in the hands of those responsible for the safety of citizens, the steady hand of government.
Homeless[/QUOTE]
What most sane people already realize, is that the job of protecting ME, is best left up to ME. Where was law enforcement during the Virginia college killing spree? Waiting patiently by the phone for the call to tell them "send help we have umpteen people DEAD already", is where. ONE responsible gun owner could have saved 30+ human lives, but idiots think somehow we will be safe if we cant legally own guns:rolleyes:. Guess what Einstien? CRIMINALS DONT GIVE A SHIT WHATS LEGAL AND WHATS NOT, THATS WHY THEY ARE CRIMINALS. DUH! If you criminalize guns, only criminals will have them, and then everyone will be sitting ducks. Well no thanks, not me. My opinion is, the gov. doesnt have any business telling me whether or not I can own a gun, their business is executing me if I were to use it irresponsibly. IE, killing people.
You may see it as OK to be a potential victim of some loon. Well I dont.
If thats your choice, fine. Dont force it on the rest of us.

[Schi-502]

What Okie said!!!

[STV_Keith]

What most sane people already realize, is that the job of protecting ME, is best left up to ME.
You may see it as OK to be a potential victim of some loon. Well I dont.
If thats your choice, fine. Dont force it on the rest of us.
Problem is that most of the people in power aren't of this same opinion, and that's what scares me.
"A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject."

[homelessinaz]

What most sane people already realize, is that the job of protecting ME, is best left up to ME. Where was law enforcement during the Virginia college killing spree? Waiting patiently by the phone for the call to tell them "send help we have umpteen people DEAD already", is where. ONE responsible gun owner could have saved 30+ human lives, but idiots think somehow we will be safe if we cant legally own guns:rolleyes:. Guess what Einstien? CRIMINALS DONT GIVE A SHIT WHATS LEGAL AND WHATS NOT, THATS WHY THEY ARE CRIMINALS. DUH! If you criminalize guns, only criminals will have them, and then everyone will be sitting ducks. Well no thanks, not me. My opinion is, the gov. doesnt have any business telling me whether or not I can own a gun, their business is executing me if I were to use it irresponsibly. IE, killing people.
You may see it as OK to be a potential victim of some loon. Well I dont.
If thats your choice, fine. Dont force it on the rest of us.
OH MY GOD!!! How come with people like you, the answer is always a bigger gun, or more guns, or more bombs or bigger bombs? Is it so outrageous to think that maybe we could solve a problem without killing people?
Instead of seeing the problem as it actually is (two guns too many on the campus of Virgina Tech) you imagine some other problem, in this case NOT ENOUGH GUNS ON THE CAMPUS OF VIRGINA TECH!!!
I know, I know, if you were there and you'd had your gun...yada yada yada, WHATEVER!!!
If we all lived in your world and everyone on campus actually had a gun, what would happen would look something like this:
Gunman pulls out gun and starts shooting people,
Redneck #1 sees opportunity to be on FOX news as a great American gun toting hero, takes out his Chuck Norris gun and starts firing wildly at gunman,
Redneck #2, #3, #4 and on through redneck #400 see redneck #1, #2, #3 and all the others shooting and begin shooting at each other, all of them believing that they are shooting at someone who is on a shooting spree, all of them missing their targets and shooting innocent bystanders.
How would any of them know who was the real "bad guy"? Are we going to put bad guys in uniforms? Is it going to be like a first person shooter game, with a flashing red arrow over the head of the bad guys and a circle slash over the good guys when you have one of the good guys in your sights?
I'm sure that the rednecks would most likely just shoot the person with the darkest skin, which would make the end result of this policy the same as all conservative policies, impacting minorities the harshest.
Nevermind, I forgot, you've watched all the Dirty Harry movies, you know what you're doing. Just make sure you speak loudly enough for all the hot chick bystanders to hear your clever one-liners as you cooly dispatch the bad guys with your big ass gun.
Here's one, "Schools out, mother****er", or how about, "Class dismissed, bitch boy", and then you shoot him right between the eyes.
That would be tight, huh?
Wow, you must be the baddest mofo to ever post on a political rhetoric forum.
Homeless

[AzMandella]

It reads,
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
To me and many others it is plain that the first part of this sentence,
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,..."
Is there to justify the second part of the sentence,
"...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
In plain English, this sentence means, "Hey, we're going to need an organized volunteer Army, so we're not going to keep people from owning guns, so they can be in that organized volunteer Army"
In other words, the part about a well regulated militia actually means something. It means that the essence of the second part of the sentence (we can have guns) is justified by the first part of the sentence (we're going to need an organized volunteer Army).
HOWEVER, the more pro-gun violence among us argue that the clause about a well regulated militia refers to the fact that the government will maintain an organized militia to defend our nation, and thus the average citizen will be allowed to own guns of his own in order to keep that standing government militia from practicing tyranny over the citizen.
I'll keep my remarks short and simple here...that's pure fantasy. It's pure fantasy to believe that there is a line in the constitution granting you the right to maintain an arsenal in order to overthrow the government. If you were allowed to make preparations to overthrow your government, then the anti-sedition laws, the laws forbidding membership in a group which advocates the overthrow of the United States government by force, and the numerous state laws prohibiting the formation of "Private Armies" would've been declared unconstitutional. They haven't.
This was written before we had a massive military budget, millions of armed forces members and a massive supply of weapons of mass destruction. We no longer need Minutemen standing by in the woods with their muskets at the ready to defend our nation, we have a full time military for that. In the meantime, our inisitence on clinging to the gun has had no effect other than providing a rash of unnecessary gun violence and tragedy across this land; tragedies which strike women and minorities hardest.
It is time for the citizen to realize that guns are best held in the hands of those responsible for the safety of citizens, the steady hand of government.
Enjoy your time with your antiquated rifle, delemorte, and make sure you practice well enough that you'll be able to resist your government if it becomes tyrannical. I'd love to see what your Mosin-Nagant does against an Apache-Longbow.
Homeless
Well thank you for that lesson on the 2nd amendment. On the other hand the Supreme court doesn't agree. And for how many years? I guess I have no right to defend my home and family if it be necesary. I do believe that is what our forefathers meant. But you libs keep working on stripping all of our rights and soon you will have your socialistic utopia. This guy sure reminds me of Bag Head.

[homelessinaz]

I guess I have no right to defend my home and family if it be necesary. I do believe that is what our forefathers meant.
Oh, of course that's what they meant, that's why they didn't say ONE WORD about self defense, skeet shooting, deer hunting, etc.
The Supreme Court hasn't made a 2nd amendment ruling since 1980, and has only made 5 2nd amendment rulings. Most of those rulings have dealt with the question of what constitutes a true militia. In no case has the Court ruled about a person's right to own a gun for self defense. At this point, the Court has left the decision up to the states about laws about gun ownership. That's why some cities like NYC have been able to reduce their per capita crime rate through sensible gun control measures.
You're welcome.
Homeless

[OKIE-JET]

OH MY GOD!!! How come with people like you, the answer is always a bigger gun, or more guns, or more bombs or bigger bombs? Is it so outrageous to think that maybe we could solve a problem without killing people?
Instead of seeing the problem as it actually is (two guns too many on the campus of Virgina Tech) you imagine some other problem, in this case NOT ENOUGH GUNS ON THE CAMPUS OF VIRGINA TECH!!!
I know, I know, if you were there and you'd had your gun...yada yada yada, WHATEVER!!!
If we all lived in your world and everyone on campus actually had a gun, what would happen would look something like this:
Gunman pulls out gun and starts shooting people,
Redneck #1 sees opportunity to be on FOX news as a great American gun toting hero, takes out his Chuck Norris gun and starts firing wildly at gunman,
Redneck #2, #3, #4 and on through redneck #400 see redneck #1, #2, #3 and all the others shooting and begin shooting at each other, all of them believing that they are shooting at someone who is on a shooting spree, all of them missing their targets and shooting innocent bystanders.
How would any of them know who was the real "bad guy"? Are we going to put bad guys in uniforms? Is it going to be like a first person shooter game, with a flashing red arrow over the head of the bad guys and a circle slash over the good guys when you have one of the good guys in your sights?
I'm sure that the rednecks would most likely just shoot the person with the darkest skin, which would make the end result of this policy the same as all conservative policies, impacting minorities the harshest.
Nevermind, I forgot, you've watched all the Dirty Harry movies, you know what you're doing. Just make sure you speak loudly enough for all the hot chick bystanders to hear your clever one-liners as you cooly dispatch the bad guys with your big ass gun.
Here's one, "Schools out, mother****er", or how about, "Class dismissed, bitch boy", and then you shoot him right between the eyes.
That would be tight, huh?
Wow, you must be the baddest mofo to ever post on a political rhetoric forum.
Homeless
LMAO!...."Schools out mofo"....instant classic.....to be a forest dweller you watch too much TV.LOL! Oh, and only limp wristed buffons such as yourself would have to shoot that much.

[STV_Keith]

Mr Homeless. May I simply ask how many guns you own?

[havasu5150]

Well thank you for that lesson on the 2nd amendment. On the other hand the Supreme court doesn't agree. And for how many years? I guess I have no right to defend my home and family if it be necesary. I do believe that is what our forefathers meant. But you libs keep working on stripping all of our rights and soon you will have your socialistic utopia. This guy sure reminds me of Bag Head.
I agree!
Why is it that the libs have a very narrow view of the scope of the 2nd amendment, yet want to interpret the 1st amendment in the absolute broadest terms.

[Kachina26]

It is time for the citizen to realize that guns are best held in the hands of those responsible for the safety of citizens, the steady hand of government.
Homeless
Wow, how long did it take for you to type that out? I've been on the floor laughing my ass off for 10 minutes after reading it!
Mr Homeless. May I simply ask how many guns you own?
Probably afraid of them......
BTW delemorte, nice piece, but you might consider some hearing protection.

[TonkaDriver]

It is time for the citizen to realize that guns are best held in the hands of those responsible for the safety of citizens, the steady hand of government.
Homeless
You call yourself a Libertarian at the same time as you spout this crap.
What I know of Libertarians is that they don't support government interference in the lives of the citizens as long as they do no harm to other citizens. Therefore if a citizen wants to own and operate a gun it is none of the government's business unless the gun is used improperly against another citizen.
No wonder you are homeless. You have no clue what you are. What your posts say of you is that you confused the spelling of liberal with libertarian.
Maybe you should do some research concerning what libertarians truly believe before you call yourself one..
P.S. The murder rate in Australia went way up when the government confiscated weapons from law abiding citizens. Either Sweden or Switserland requires all households to have a working firearm at the ready for national defense and you can check their crime rate. A small town in redneck central (Georgia) passed an ordinance that required that all homes be armed and the criminals went elswhere.
None of the criminals were sure they would live if they broke into a house.
By the way, because of hunters the health of the game herds in this country has never been better.

[YeLLowBoaT]

and the country that has the most guns per capita, and also has the lowest crime rate is... switzerland. Kind of wonder why... more so since thier nat'l sport is target shooting.
Then thier are countrys like the UK... where they don't have guns, and a very low level of gun violance, but thier crimes against a person( murder, rape, mayhem, assult, robbery.... etc) are almost 4x higher then the US.
ever notice how all of the mass murder events, always happen in "no gun zones"? every thing from post offices to schools... kind of makes you wonder.
Fact is the VT thing should have never happend, as the nut job was already precluded to owning firearms, but do to a goverment agency not reporting that info to the proper goverment agencys he was aloud to legally buy them.
Maybe we should just enforce the gun control laws...
then there are people like Roise O'donnell.... Who firmly beleaves no one should have guns, but her body gaurds carry... hmmm link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5rhuLnrrwJQ)
So she can protect herself and her family, but Since I make a middle class wage and can't aford proffessional body gaurds... I should not be able to defend my family?

[homelessinaz]

Mr Homeless. May I simply ask how many guns you own?
How many guns do I own? I wonder why you'd ask that. Isn't that one of those questions you gun whackos get really sensitive about people asking?
Okay, I'll play along. Of course I don't own any guns. I have trained local, state and federal law enforcement officers whom I pay taxes to train and equip. So far I've never had any mishaps due to one of their guns being used against me or any of my housemates, nor have any of those firearms been involved in an accidental shooting. I'm quite comfortable with that.
If you're going to make the argument that I can't comment on gun control issues since I'm not a gun owner, I'd be willing to go along with that so long as everyone without ovaries will recuse themselves from the abortion debate.
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

How many guns do I own? I wonder why you'd ask that. Isn't that one of those questions you gun whackos get really sensitive about people asking?
Okay, I'll play along. Of course I don't own any guns. I have trained local, state and federal law enforcement officers whom I pay taxes to train and equip. So far I've never had any mishaps due to one of their guns being used against me or any of my housemates, nor have any of those firearms been involved in an accidental shooting. I'm quite comfortable with that.
If you're going to make the argument that I can't comment on gun control issues since I'm not a gun owner, I'd be willing to go along with that so long as everyone without ovaries will recuse themselves from the abortion debate.
Homeless
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x23/red-rider_1911nut/bangun.gif

[homelessinaz]

I agree!
Why is it that the libs have a very narrow view of the scope of the 2nd amendment, yet want to interpret the 1st amendment in the absolute broadest terms.
I have no problem with people wanting to exercise their second amendment right to bear arms as members of a well regulated militia...what's your point? Go ahead, go join a well regulated militia.
Like all other areas of the Constitution, the second amendment is subject to revision. People have been trying for YEARS (and show no signs of letting up) to modify a woman's right to privacy based on their religious beliefs, and the entire Republican party strategy for a couple decades has been based on promising their base that they'll repeal that right, so what makes you think that modifying or eliminating the second amendment is or should be off the table?
Folks REALLY need to stop hiding behind the Constitution, because the mere fact that it was written on some paper 220ish years ago by some dead white slave owners doesn't make it the inspired word of the almighty. If your entire argument is that "...hey, it's in the Constitution" then your argument is pretty weak.
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

I would also like to point out that since class 3 weapons were classifed in 1938... there has been one felony commited with them in the state of CA...
Some gun nut going on a killing spree? nope... It was a LA county sheriffs deputy using it to kill his wife and trying to make it look like a gang hit. Yeah cops should have guns... Do you want me to post the video of the DEA agent saying "I'm the only one in this room qualifed to have a gun" and 30 seconds latter shooing him self in the leg? I can... Or what about the cop that discharged her weapon with in inchs of a suspect on the ground and almost hittting her fellow officer...

[homelessinaz]

and the country that has the most guns per capita, and also has the lowest crime rate is... switzerland. Kind of wonder why... more so since thier nat'l sport is target shooting.
Fact is the VT thing should have never happend, as the nut job was already precluded to owning firearms, but do to a goverment agency not reporting that info to the proper goverment agencys he was aloud to legally buy them.
Maybe we should just enforce the gun control laws...
then there are people like Roise O'donnell.... Who firmly beleaves no one should have guns, but her body gaurds carry... hmmm link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5rhuLnrrwJQ)
So she can protect herself and her family, but Since I make a middle class wage and can't aford proffessional body gaurds... I should not be able to defend my family?
First off, I'd like to say that although gun ownership laws haven't been able to totally prevent violence, we surely could (AND SHOULD) pass a law against people like YOU being allowed to own or possess any type or writing instrument, typewriter, printing press or any other type of word processing equipment in order to prevent you from committing any further spelling or grammar errors. Yes, I am funny.
The rest of your post isn't really even worth replying to, since it sounds like you formed each and every one of your arguments by reading all the bumper stickers you saw in the parking lot outside the gun show.
Yeah, Switzerland is heavily armed and very peaceful, but it's a big stretch to say that their low crime rate is tied directly to gun ownership, isn't it? Switzerland is the way it is largely because they have been the wealthiest country in Europe for quite some time, they have practically no unemployment and have what is considered one of the world's most competitive economies.
You can sit there and argue that gun ownership reduces crime and gun confiscation increases crime, but if that were true we'd be able to end crime by arming everyone. In reality, POVERTY causes crime, and they don't have a poverty problem in Switzerland, which is why they basically don't have a gun violence problem either.
I'd agree with you that maybe we should enforce the laws we have on the books instead of enacting new laws, how about we begin by enforcing the law that gun owners be members of a WELL REGULATED MILITIA? I bet you'd be amazed how much that'd help. Next, how about we eliminate one of the largest and most obstructive lobbyist groups in America, the National Rifle Association. The NRA has worked to undermine and eliminate the government's ability to enact and enforce sensible gun control laws. If they'd stop obstructing, Congress and the Department of Justice would have a lot less trouble enforcing existing laws. Yes, what I mean is that the should be gun registration and a NATIONAL clearinghouse that enforces a law that prevents registrants (like mentally ill persons) from purchasing weapons and ammunition. This would mean a registry of gun owners and a waiting period, and you know the NRA won't let that happen, so enough with the pie in the sky crap about "enforcing existing laws" out of one side of your mouth and then saying, "no registry, no waiting list" out of the other.
Rosie wouldn't need armed guard if there weren't ARMED mentally ill right wing gun whackos making threats against her and her family's lives.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

I would also like to point out that since class 3 weapons were classifed in 1938... there has been one felony commited with them in the state of CA...
Some gun nut going on a killing spree? nope... It was a LA county sheriffs deputy using it to kill his wife and trying to make it look like a gang hit. Yeah cops should have guns... Do you want me to post the video of the DEA agent saying "I'm the only one in this room qualifed to have a gun" and 30 seconds latter shooing him self in the leg? I can... Or what about the cop that discharged her weapon with in inchs of a suspect on the ground and almost hittting her fellow officer...
I KNEW THAT SOMEONE WOULD BRING UP AGENT LEE PAIGE!!! Typical racists love to see a strong African-American get taken down a peg, especially when he's operating in a white man's world of law enforcement. I don't know about the other accidental discharge you mentioned, but WOW surprise it was a woman, how odd. It's my understanding that Agent Paige isn't the first law enforcement agent to have an accidental discharge, but he's sure the most famous.
Yeah, so Agent Paige accidentally shot himself, I guess you're right, everyone should have a gun. Good argument, flawless logic...idiot.
I had to do some googling to figure out what a class III weapon is, but from what I can gather it's a machine gun, silencer, short-barrel shotgun and things like that. You're claiming that only ONE felony has been committed with a class 3 weapon in CA since 1938? Just right off the top of my head, was that a class 3 weapon that the guy was shooting at police in the North Hollywood shootout? That's just off the top of my head, but I doubt you're correct.

[homelessinaz]

Maybe you should do some research concerning what libertarians truly believe before you call yourself one..
By the way, because of hunters the health of the game herds in this country has never been better.
Since you asked, I explained my Libertarianism in this post:
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127613&page=5&highlight=libertarian+big+tent
Secondly, I think it's great that you care so much about animal well-being that you are willing to kill them to keep them well. I never knew that all those guys with guns who head into the woods were just doing it to maintain the health of game herds. Did you all ever think of maybe going out there with FOOD instead of guns?
I hope that someday we'll maintain the health of the redneck herd the same way that rednecks maintain the health of the "game herds".

[YeLLowBoaT]

I KNEW THAT SOMEONE WOULD BRING UP AGENT LEE PAIGE!!! Typical racists love to see a strong African-American get taken down a peg, especially when he's operating in a white man's world of law enforcement. I don't know about the other accidental discharge you mentioned, but WOW surprise it was a woman, how odd. It's my understanding that Agent Paige isn't the first law enforcement agent to have an accidental discharge, but he's sure the most famous.
Yeah, so Agent Paige accidentally shot himself, I guess you're right, everyone should have a gun. Good argument, flawless logic...idiot.
I had to do some googling to figure out what a class III weapon is, but from what I can gather it's a machine gun, silencer, short-barrel shotgun and things like that. You're claiming that only ONE felony has been committed with a class 3 weapon in CA since 1938? Just right off the top of my head, was that a class 3 weapon that the guy was shooting at police in the North Hollywood shootout? That's just off the top of my head, but I doubt you're correct.
big diffrence between that and what I said... those guns were illegal. I'm talking about a legally owned firearm in the hands of its legal owners...
My point was that cops can not be trusted with the safety of others, they have enough probs with thier own safety.( not every cop, but enought of them that it is an issue. BTW the private range I shoot at has only ever removed one persons membership... it was a local PD officer...)
If you watch the video of the DEA agent. Its clear to anyone that understands the basic ideas behind safe gun handling that, he should not be armed. Go to youtube and look up "dumb women cop" you will see the other video. BTW women are generally better and safer shooters then men are.( like every thing else its just practice.)

[STV_Keith]

How many guns do I own? I wonder why you'd ask that. Isn't that one of those questions you gun whackos get really sensitive about people asking?
Okay, I'll play along. Of course I don't own any guns. I have trained local, state and federal law enforcement officers whom I pay taxes to train and equip.
Homeless
I will tell you exactly why I asked...because this is yet another case of someone who has no experience with something wanting to ban it because of some damn statistic that really means nothing. Criminals will be criminals wether they have a gun or not. It's just one of the more effective tools, but a TOOL nonetheless. Give a criminal a baseball bat and it's just as effective.
I own a Dodge pickup and a Pontiac car. What if when the Ford Explorers were all flipping over, that I went on a crusade to ban them? Didn't affect me one way or the other if they weren't around anymore, since I didn't want one or drive one anyway...and the argument could be made that in the hands of some "maniac" driving next to me, it could flip and kill me. Or how about ban Firestone tires because some blew up.
The point I'm trying to make is that people that are trying to ban/limit guns don't use them and don't care for them in the first place. It's feeling motivated, not rationally motivated, to be trying to get rid of them.
Pick the favorite thing you like to do...let's say canoeing, thanks to your avatar. :) What would you be saying to me or anyone that was trying to ban canoes? I don't use them, so it wouldn't matter to me if they got banned; but you like them, so you don't want to see them banned because someone else who thought differently than you didn't give 2 sharts about them, right?
Bottom line is do what you want and let me do what I want.
Now, about the other comments about waiting for the cops to show and protect you...If you were in your box (homeless right?) and someone stuck a knife through the window, how long would it take you for you or someone else to call the cops, the call get dispatched and an officer to respond? How long would it take that bad guy to gut you like a fish if that was his intent?
I once read a neat little quip: "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged."

[TonkaDriver]

Since you asked, I explained my Libertarianism in this post:
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127613&page=5&highlight=libertarian+big+tent
Secondly, I think it's great that you care so much about animal well-being that you are willing to kill them to keep them well. I never knew that all those guys with guns who head into the woods were just doing it to maintain the health of game herds. Did you all ever think of maybe going out there with FOOD instead of guns?
I hope that someday we'll maintain the health of the redneck herd the same way that rednecks maintain the health of the "game herds".
I read your linked posts. Proves my point completely. You indeed have no idea what a Libertarian is. If you are a Communist, you should register as one. There is an active Communist party for you to join so you can align yourself properly with all the other losers of your ilk.
In the case that you are just cunfused as well as misguided, Libertarians and Communists are polar opposites.
I hope that since you are so concerned with obeying all laws that the dwelling you and the rest of your livingmates reside in is properly zoned for so many occupants.
I wonder where the world would be if your mother as well as many others that brought your type into this world would have used their perceived right to choose to murder the unborn.

[Old Texan]

Folks we have learned something here, Internet Trolls paddle canoes and are World Citizens.
Now get back to "your" world Troll.

[Kachina26]

Since you asked, I explained my Libertarianism in this post:
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127613&page=5&highlight=libertarian+big+tent
Checked out that page, funny after 25 lines or so of a grammar lesson, you said..
And you folks actually want to CUT funding for education? With this level of public school performance on display, I think we out to consider spending even MORE!!!
ought, maybe:confused:

[homelessinaz]

I own a Dodge pickup and a Pontiac car. What if when the Ford Explorers were all flipping over, that I went on a crusade to ban them? Didn't affect me one way or the other if they weren't around anymore, since I didn't want one or drive one anyway...and the argument could be made that in the hands of some "maniac" driving next to me, it could flip and kill me. Or how about ban Firestone tires because some blew up.
Bottom line is do what you want and let me do what I want.
Now, about the other comments about waiting for the cops to show and protect you...If you were in your box (homeless right?) and someone stuck a knife through the window, how long would it take you for you or someone else to call the cops, the call get dispatched and an officer to respond? How long would it take that bad guy to gut you like a fish if that was his intent?
Geesh, where do I start? There is no comparison between an item which was designed to kill and a defective product that accidentally hurts people, however, I do believe that the Consumer Product Safey Commission seeks to limit the harm that flawed products can inflict, isn't that the same thing? I support that as well as limiting gun ownership.
I think conservatives go way too far with that whole, "I'm going to take care of myself and I don't need no guv'ment tryin to protect me" bit. How about we disband the FAA and get rid of all the air traffic controllers too? Aren't we all smart enough to see if we're about to hit another plane or a mountain? Do we really need to government to coddle us with terminal guidance and weather reports? How about the Food and Drug Administration too, let's get rid of them next. We'll just decide for ourselves what drugs work and what's bad. That's about how much sense you make when you suggest that armed and untrained citizens are ANY kind of substitute for the Police. How about if we dump the Fire Department too and we'll all just carry fire extinguishers?
Before you say it, I realize that having a fire extinguisher is a good idea and a good thing to do to help with the fire UNTIL the FD gets there, but the same analogy can't accurately be used with having a gun to handle things until a Police Officer arrives, because improperly using a fire extinguisher isn't likely to lead to indiscriminate killing, as with an improperly used gun.
Instead of being selfish and thinking about what you're going to do if you're threatened by violent crime, why not get beyond yourself and your selfish worldview and think about what we can do to reduce the root causes of violent crime, namely poverty and inequity; the problems associated with having a class of "haves" and a class of "have nots".
Seriously, there are things you can do to help. You could devote time and money to helping inner-city youth rise above their circumstances, you can donate to the Urban League or to other worthy charities and college scholarships. Seriously, conservatism is always talking about personal charities being better than government hand-outs, so why not?
My bottom line is if you don't want to be a victim of violent crime, the best thing to do isn't buying a gun to shoot your attacker, but investing in a solution that would keep your attacker from turning to a life of crime in the first place.
Aren't we all in this together, or is that just something conservatives say when they want to inspire national unity and patriotic fervor so that poor people will run off to war to protect the interests of rich people?
Homeless

[AzMandella]

Geesh, where do I start? There is no comparison between an item which was designed to kill and a defective product that accidentally hurts people, however, I do believe that the Consumer Product Safey Commission seeks to limit the harm that flawed products can inflict, isn't that the same thing? I support that as well as limiting gun ownership.
I think conservatives go way too far with that whole, "I'm going to take care of myself and I don't need no guv'ment tryin to protect me" bit. How about we disband the FAA and get rid of all the air traffic controllers too? Aren't we all smart enough to see if we're about to hit another plane or a mountain? Do we really need to government to coddle us with terminal guidance and weather reports? How about the Food and Drug Administration too, let's get rid of them next. We'll just decide for ourselves what drugs work and what's bad. That's about how much sense you make when you suggest that armed and untrained citizens are ANY kind of substitute for the Police. How about if we dump the Fire Department too and we'll all just carry fire extinguishers?
Before you say it, I realize that having a fire extinguisher is a good idea and a good thing to do to help with the fire UNTIL the FD gets there, but the same analogy can't accurately be used with having a gun to handle things until a Police Officer arrives, because improperly using a fire extinguisher isn't likely to lead to indiscriminate killing, as with an improperly used gun.
Instead of being selfish and thinking about what you're going to do if you're threatened by violent crime, why not get beyond yourself and your selfish worldview and think about what we can do to reduce the root causes of violent crime, namely poverty and inequity; the problems associated with having a class of "haves" and a class of "have nots".
Seriously, there are things you can do to help. You could devote time and money to helping inner-city youth rise above their circumstances, you can donate to the Urban League or to other worthy charities and college scholarships. Seriously, conservatism is always talking about personal charities being better than government hand-outs, so why not?
My bottom line is if you don't want to be a victim of violent crime, the best thing to do isn't buying a gun to shoot your attacker, but investing in a solution that would keep your attacker from turning to a life of crime in the first place.
Aren't we all in this together, or is that just something conservatives say when they want to inspire national unity and patriotic fervor so that poor people will run off to war to protect the interests of rich people?
Homeless
Funny you say how good the police are. today my house alarm malfunctioned. My neighbor called the police 15 min before I got home and guess what? They never even showed up. when I called them an hour later they said they were busy and had not had time to respond yet. Funny because there were two parked in the Walgreen's parking lot talking to eachother 5 blocks from my house when I passed by on my way home. You may have great trust in our law enforcement but I sure don't. And I have two lifelong friends who are sherrifs here and some of the things they tell me would make you puke. Like the fact that one of their main priorities is traffic tickets not because of safety but it generates revenue . Good thing somebody didn't really break in to my house whith my wife and children at home. They could be possibly dead and most likely cold before the police would show up because they were too busy trying to generate revenue. So you can take that liberal minded pea brain of yours and try to brainwash some retards because it won't work here.

[homelessinaz]

Funny you say how good the police are. today my house alarm malfunctioned. My neighbor called the police 15 min before I got home and guess what? They never even showed up. when I called them an hour later they said they were busy and had not had time to respond yet. Funny because there were two parked in the Walgreen's parking lot talking to eachother 5 blocks from my house when I passed by on my way home. You may have great trust in our law enforcement but I sure don't. And I have two lifelong friends who are sherrifs here and some of the things they tell me would make you puke. Like the fact that one of their main priorities is traffic tickets not because of safety but it generates revenue . Good thing somebody didn't really break in to my house whith my wife and children at home. They could be possibly dead and most likely cold before the police would show up because they were too busy trying to generate revenue. So you can take that liberal minded pea brain of yours and try to brainwash some retards because it won't work here.
Okay, so you're giving me another anecdote about some near tragedy, and you're angry about some non-emergency that could've been an emergency that the Police didn't respond to to your satisfaction, and you feel like that endows you with the right to keep lethal weapons in your house so you can respond in case someday it's not just a false alarm.
First off, what is with the preoccuation with being a victim of violent crime? If people were as vigilant about breast exams and and making wise health decisions (not smoking, avoiding red meat) as you all seem to be about being ready to be robbed, I'm sure many more lives would be saved than would be by arming yourselves.
Simply put, if you are aware of your surroundings, lock your house and stay away from dangerous areas (think dark mall parking lot, ATM at night, etc) and participate in a neighborhood watch program, your chances of being a victim of violent crime are very low. All this paranoia about making sure you always have a loaded gun leads me to the conclusion that you people are obsessed with and foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to shoot someone. It's just that simple.
I don't know if you just feel that shooting a "bad guy" would complete you as a man, or if it is from the violent video games, but your level of anxiety about the possibility of needing to shoot someone is WAY out of proportion to the threat. I really think that it is this way because you all want so desperately to prove that you have that killer instinct.
Secondly, I have now offered an alternative solution to killing people at least 3 different times, that alternative being to address the root cause of crime (poverty) before young people turn to a life I crime. I have brought that up at least 3 different times, yet no one comments about that. Instead of a reasonable reply to my proposal, I get heated rhetoric about me lacking the courage to kill people over some property and anecdotes about some shortcoming on the part of the Police which leads you to conclude that our only alternative is to break off into roving bands of armed suburban warrior tribes ala "Thunderdome".
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to address the problem of poverty than to try to kill the poor people who commit violent crimes? If you can't see yourself doing something as pacifist as that, could you at least imagine going to your local Police department as a concerned community member and discussing your concerns, instead of barricading yourself in your little stucco bunker and amassing an arsenal in hopes that you'll be able to kill some teenager who wants to come in and steal 2 or 3 of your 15 TV sets?
By the way, even if you are in your house and you have a loaded gun, the odds are poor that you'd be able to use it successfully against an armed intruder. Unless you have it loaded and on your person and are looking for danger around every corner, you would probably fair poorly against an armed intruder who is actively seeking to do you harm, and that's if you're even awake. Statistically, an armed homeowner is more likely to have his weapon used against him or stolen by an intruder.
Get real. Does ANYONE have anything to say that DOESN'T just amount to them beating on their chest and talking about being a suburban gunslinger?
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

all violent crimes are commited by those in poverty... :rolleyes:
yeah thats it...
you really are full of shit.
care to show us some numbers to back that statement up?
The chances of me being able to effectivly use a fire arm in defense of my life/ family is very high... Infact If you compare to the number of hours of weapons training( at professional training sites for leo) I've had in the last two years and compare it to the average hours of my local sheriff department has had in the last 5, you will see that I have almost 4x the number of hours of weapons training. Thats not including my miltary small arms training.

[sanger rat]

Dude, You need to get out and see the real world. Come spend the day with me delivering 30,000.00 dollars worth of liquor in the ghetto. You will be begging for a gun by lunch time. lol

[homelessinaz]

all violent crimes are commited by those in poverty... :rolleyes:
yeah thats it...
you really are full of shit.
care to show us some numbers to back that statement up?
The chances of me being able to effectivly use a fire arm in defense of my life/ family is very high... Infact If you compare to the number of hours of weapons training( at professional training sites for leo) I've had in the last two years and compare it to the average hours of my local sheriff department has had in the last 5, you will see that I have almost 4x the number of hours of weapons training. Thats not including my miltary small arms training.
You want numbers to back my statement up? Here, here's some numbers:
4, 11, 26, 4,729, 1776...
Are those enough numbers? Maybe I should go to the "Department of Crime/Poverty Correlation" website. You know what, I'm a college graduate, I've taken sociology and anthropology courses, and I know as well as you do that certain crimes are borne out an abundance of poverty and a lack of opportunity. I could sit here and list link after link after link, but is that REALLY the point?
The point is that you know and I know that violent crime and poverty go hand in hand in this country, which is why people go to San Diego on vacation, not Detroit, so if the best you have is, "you're full of shit" and a hollow challenge to me to put a bunch of stupid links up here, I don't feel the need to prove my point to you.
As far as your crabgrass commando qualifications; the hours and the dollars you have spent getting ready for your big day when you get to shoot a gun at a real live human being, you have just PROVED what I was saying, and that is that you and a lot of folks like you are fixated on the dream of someday killing someone. That's the scary part, that you all seem so intent and so fascinated and obsessed with getting to kill someone. THAT'S WHY NORMAL FOLKS THINK YOU'RE WEIRD!!! That's why Tackleberry from the "Police Academy" movies was such a funny character...he was like YOU!!!
You know what, if people were as obsessed with fire extinguishers and firefighting as you are with guns, and if they spent thousands of dollars on the latest fire extinguishers on the market and ran off to little fantasy adventure firefighter camps (like the private gun instruction you claim to have attended) and if they sat in chatrooms talking about make believe fires they put out, people would think, "WOW! There's something weird about that guy and his firefighting fetish. I think he'd actually WELCOME it if a fire broke out in his house."
Guess what...THAT'S YOU, but with guns and killing instead of fire extinguishers and firefighting. You're clearly obsessed and clearly disturbed, and it's my guess that you probably applied to several Police departments but were rejected when you brought all your guns to the interview and started blathering on about what a great shot you are, and that's the reason why you spend your weekends at fantasy gunfighter school, probably swinging off the nuts of real cops...am I getting warm?
Tell me, when you are at fantasy gunfighter school, do Police officers avoid you on break? Do they make up excuses when you invite them all out for a drink after class? Do you often tell them stories and then hear them all say, "...gee, that's pretty cool..." and then they uncomfortably try to sneak off to the bathroom, or the parking lot, or under their desks, or anywhere you're not?
I'll bet I am not too far off, am I?
Uh oh, I think I just heard a noise downstairs, I need to go throw a hand grenade and then spray the area with automatic weapons fire.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Dude, You need to get out and see the real world. Come spend the day with me delivering 30,000.00 dollars worth of liquor in the ghetto. You will be begging for a gun by lunch time. lol
You just made my point for me. What if you were delivering 30K worth or computers, or textbooks? Guns stores and liquor stores on every corner are exactly the problem. Seriously, all BS aside, am I the ONLY one who sees this?
If we can take care of the poverty, the crime will take care of itself. You won't need a gun, and the only people who'd still be demanding to have one would be people who are nuts.

[YeLLowBoaT]

You want numbers to back my statement up? Here, here's some numbers:
4, 11, 26, 4,729, 1776...
Are those enough numbers? Maybe I should go to the "Department of Crime/Poverty Correlation" website. You know what, I'm a college graduate, I've taken sociology and anthropology courses, and I know as well as you do that certain crimes are born out of anabundance of poverty and a lack of opportunity. I could sit here and list link after link after link, but is that REALLY the point? The point is that you know and I know that violent crime and poverty go hand in hand in this country, which is why people go to San Diego on vacation, not Detroit, so if the best you have is, "you're full of shit" and a hollow challenge to me to put a bunch of stupid links up here I don't feel the need to prove my point to you.
As far as your crabgrass commando qualifications; the hours and the dollars you have spent getting ready for your big day when you get to shoot a gun at a real live human being, you have just PROVED what I was saying, and that is that you and a lot of folks like you are fixated on the dream of someday killing someone. That's the scary part, that you all seem so intent and so fascinated and obsessed with getting to kill someone. THAT'S WHY NORMAL FOLKS THINK YOU'RE WEIRD!!! That's why Tackleberry from the "Police Academy" movies was such a funny character...he was like YOU!!!
You know what, if people were as obsessed with fire extinguishers and fire fighting, if they spent thousands of dollars on the latest fire extinguishers on the market and ran off to little fantasy adventure firefighter camps (like the private gun instruction you claim to have attended) and sat in chatrooms talking about make believe fires they put out, people would think, "WOW! There's something weird about that guy and his firefighting fetish. I think he'd actually WELCOME it if a fire broke out in his house."
Guess what...THAT'S YOU, but with guns and killing instead of fire extinguishers and firefighting. You're clearly obsessed and clearly disturbed, and it's my guess that you probably applied to several Police departments but were rejected when you brought all your guns to the interview and started blathering on about what a great shot you are, and that's the reason why you spend your weekends at fantasy gunfighter school swinging off the nuts of real cops...am I getting warm?
Tell me, when you are at fantasy gunfighter school, do Police officers avoid you on break? Do they make up excuses when you invite them all out for a drink after class? Do you often tell them stories and then hear them all say, "...gee, that's pretty cool..." and then uncomfortably try to sneak off to the bathroom, or the parking lot, or under their desks, or anywhere you're not?
I'll bet I am not too far off, am I?
Uh oh, I think I just heard a noise downstairs, I need to go throw a hand grenade and then spray the area with automatic weapons fire.
Homeless
Thanks of not backing up your statements with facts... hell one link form a police dept or national record keeping would been enough. Guess that was too much work for you...
You keep saying that getting rid of poverty would get rid of violent crime...
so lets talk about the violent crime that I beleave is the worst... rape.
Tell me how rapes are directly linked to poverty?
While your at it, explain how the most common cuase of death of pregant women is the men that inpreganted them and how that always relates to poverty.
Let me guess I'm also a crazy becuase I have atleast 2 weeks of food/ water at hand and a 72 hour kit for myself/my faimly in the closet by the door. I see no diffrence between those supplys and being armed/trained to defend myself.
One final Q...
lets just say that all guns were banned tomarrow, and no one in the US was in poverty, would you ban sword or knifes? They are just as leathal as a gun, infact the chances of dieing from a knife wound is higher then a bullet wound... so should we ban those too?

[ONAROLL]

Homeless,
I have to give you a little credit for holding onto your ideas, even though they fly in the face of most of mine, I really dont think you have any real world experience with random violence and murder committed against innocent citizens, my career has been based on the misfortunes of others, I think I have attained a skill and experience level at this point to comment here, if people intent on doing harm to others are not confronted at the time of the act, then they do as they please, who cares about the legal system, the educational system, the prison system when you, a friend, or a family member are in immediate danger. A person able to react to that situation with only the response necessary to stop the situation will in my opinion be a better person, I dont understand how you could lay in bed with your family sleeping in your home, hear the sound of an intruder entering and feel you do not have the "right" to arm yourself and protect your family, the thinking that "911" is your only means for protection, damn!!......its your family. I think if you heard the sound of your 13 year old daughters panties being ripped off her body and you had the decision to debate social order and the second ammendant or fire both barrels I would like to think, Homeless, you would aim and fire.............

[TonkaDriver]

First off, what is with the preoccuation with being a victim of violent crime?
Homeless and misguided, I would bet that if you were as lucky as I was to survive the violent crime of being robbed at gunpoint you may have a different outlook. The criminal that stuck a 9MM in my gut was simply a 34 year old convicted felon that was trying to impress his 15 year old girlfriend. He decided that $10 worth of beer was worth the next 14 years of his life just to impress a little girl with just how tough he was. I did what you advocate and pulled my cellphone out to call the police, which by the way did not prevent the crime. The criminal pointed the gun at me again from the back of his car to get me to put my phone down. If I had a gun on me in full view he never would have tried it. If I had pulled a gun at the same time as my phone we would not be paying to feed him as he serves his sentence of 14 years for armed robbery.
You throw out two college degrees that you say qualifies you to dictate the way the rest of us live our lives. I seriously doubt you have lived your life.
As far as eating red meat, Biology dictates that humans need meat to be healthy. Cows are herbavores and don't have canine teeth. Humans are omnivores and do have canine teeth. What do canine teeth have to do with anything you may ask? They are specifically designed to tear meat. Besides, if we were not meant to eat red meat, why does a steak taste so good?
Another point you made was that poverty is the single cause of violent crime and that is a result of a society with a class of have's and a class of havenot's. Unlike communist societies where your lot in life is determined by the commune, Our society in the USA is one based on the rewarding of excellence. Ask our Secretary of State. If you learn, work hard and don't give up you can go anywhere you want. Ask Oprah. (by the way, Both of them are Black Females. One conservative and the other Liberal)
Hey Homeless,
I have a challenge for you that would be right up your alley considering the degrees you hold that you are so proud of.
Post on every forum on HB the question of where the people on this site came up with the ability to spend $1500 to hundreds of thousands of dollars on their ***boats. Then post the raw data as well as your conclusions for all to comment on. I do realize that there is no government grant involved as that is your only source of income (My Tax Dollars). Maybe you could do it just because this is the kind of thing you have devoted your life to.
Before you judge people because they own a gun for personal safety maybe you should come to the understanding that bad people do bad things. How many child predators are poor?
You do studies for a living so you say, Show us some data.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Homeless and misguided, I would bet that if you were as lucky as I was to survive the violent crime of being robbed at gunpoint you may have a different outlook. The criminal that stuck a 9MM in my gut was simply a 34 year old convicted felon that was trying to impress his 15 year old girlfriend. He decided that $10 worth of beer was worth the next 14 years of his life just to impress a little girl with just how tough he was. I did what you advocate and pulled my cellphone out to call the police, which by the way did not prevent the crime. The criminal pointed the gun at me again from the back of his car to get me to put my phone down. If I had a gun on me in full view he never would have tried it. If I had pulled a gun at the same time as my phone we would not be paying to feed him as he serves his sentence of 14 years for armed robbery.
You throw out two college degrees that you say qualifies you to dictate the way the rest of us live our lives. I seriously doubt you have lived your life.
As far as eating red meat, Biology dictates that humans need meat to be healthy. Cows are herbavores and don't have canine teeth. Humans are omnivores and do have canine teeth. What do canine teeth have to do with anything you may ask? They are specifically designed to tear meat. Besides, if we were not meant to eat red meat, why does a steak taste so good?
Another point you made was that poverty is the single cause of violent crime and that is a result of a society with a class of have's and a class of havenot's. Unlike communist societies where your lot in life is determined by the commune, Our society in the USA is one based on the rewarding of excellence. Ask our Secretary of State. If you learn, work hard and don't give up you can go anywhere you want. Ask Oprah. (by the way, Both of them are Black Females. One conservative and the other Liberal)
Hey Homeless,
I have a challenge for you that would be right up your alley considering the degrees you hold that you are so proud of.
Post on every forum on HB the question of where the people on this site came up with the ability to spend $1500 to hundreds of thousands of dollars on their ***boats. Then post the raw data as well as your conclusions for all to comment on. I do realize that there is no government grant involved as that is your only source of income (My Tax Dollars). Maybe you could do it just because this is the kind of thing you have devoted your life to.
Before you judge people because they own a gun for personal safety maybe you should come to the understanding that bad people do bad things. How many child predators are poor?
You do studies for a living so you say, Show us some data.
I agree that is your right to own a gun for personal safety if you so choose.
To too have looked down the barrel of a large caliber handgun, and I can say that when the guy pointing the gun told me to hit the ground I did, and quickly.
However, I do not own a gun and I don't plan to. I don't see it as being necessary.

[TonkaDriver]

I agree that is your right to own a gun for personal safety if you so choose.
To too have looked down the barrel of a large caliber handgun, and I can say that when the guy pointing the gun told me to hit the ground I did, and quickly.
However, I do not own a gun and I don't plan to. I don't see it as being necessary.
Hey Ultra,
To start the study, Were you given your ***boat or did you use you knowledge and hard work to be able to buy it? How did you obtain the means to enjoy such a frivolous toy as homeless would probably call it? The story behind your success is also a valid part of the study as it may help to prove that America provides success to those that work to earn it.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Hey Ultra,
To start the study, Were you given your ***boat or did you use you knowledge and hard work to be able to buy it? How did you obtain the means to enjoy such a frivolous toy as homeless would probably call it? The story behind your success is also a valid part of the study as it may help to prove that America provides success to those that work to earn it.
After playing music for a living until I was 33, I have worked for the same Company for 23 years. I have been in a management position for 17 years and there have been times when my Department consisted of 106 people. I started boating again in 1994 with a Cole Super Hawk, in 1999 build a Warlock theft recovery and I am now on my third Ultra, which I own outright. I was a single parent from 1993 until my Son moved out in 2000. I devoted my like to being a parent and to my job, ( in that order) and my hard work paid off in both regards. My Son is an upstanding, hard working home owning citizen at 26 years old and I have a great life. He and I still do the boating thing together.
The things that I have been able to own as a result of my hard work are things that I enjoy very much, and therefore, are in no way frivolous. Boating is a passion. My .02

[Kachina26]

Tell me, when you are at fantasy gunfighter school, do Police officers avoid you on break? Do they make up excuses when you invite them all out for a drink after class? Do you often tell them stories and then hear them all say, "...gee, that's pretty cool..." and then they uncomfortably try to sneak off to the bathroom, or the parking lot, or under their desks, or anywhere you're not?
I'll bet I am not too far off, am I?
Uh oh, I think I just heard a noise downstairs, I need to go throw a hand grenade and then spray the area with automatic weapons fire.
Homeless
Funny, he posted this in another thread. I hope it's not a self portrait. Sorry YB, it was just to good to pass up:D
http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/Sorry_Babe.jpg

[AzMandella]

Okay, so you're giving me another anecdote about some near tragedy, and you're angry about some non-emergency that could've been an emergency that the Police didn't respond to to your satisfaction, and you feel like that endows you with the right to keep lethal weapons in your house so you can respond in case someday it's not just a false alarm.
First off, what is with the preoccuation with being a victim of violent crime? If people were as vigilant about breast exams and and making wise health decisions (not smoking, avoiding red meat) as you all seem to be about being ready to be robbed, I'm sure many more lives would be saved than would be by arming yourselves.
Simply put, if you are aware of your surroundings, lock your house and stay away from dangerous areas (think dark mall parking lot, ATM at night, etc) and participate in a neighborhood watch program, your chances of being a victim of violent crime are very low. All this paranoia about making sure you always have a loaded gun leads me to the conclusion that you people are obsessed with and foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to shoot someone. It's just that simple.
I don't know if you just feel that shooting a "bad guy" would complete you as a man, or if it is from the violent video games, but your level of anxiety about the possibility of needing to shoot someone is WAY out of proportion to the threat. I really think that it is this way because you all want so desperately to prove that you have that killer instinct.
Secondly, I have now offered an alternative solution to killing people at least 3 different times, that alternative being to address the root cause of crime (poverty) before young people turn to a life I crime. I have brought that up at least 3 different times, yet no one comments about that. Instead of a reasonable reply to my proposal, I get heated rhetoric about me lacking the courage to kill people over some property and anecdotes about some shortcoming on the part of the Police which leads you to conclude that our only alternative is to break off into roving bands of armed suburban warrior tribes ala "Thunderdome".
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to address the problem of poverty than to try to kill the poor people who commit violent crimes? If you can't see yourself doing something as pacifist as that, could you at least imagine going to your local Police department as a concerned community member and discussing your concerns, instead of barricading yourself in your little stucco bunker and amassing an arsenal in hopes that you'll be able to kill some teenager who wants to come in and steal 2 or 3 of your 15 TV sets?
By the way, even if you are in your house and you have a loaded gun, the odds are poor that you'd be able to use it successfully against an armed intruder. Unless you have it loaded and on your person and are looking for danger around every corner, you would probably fair poorly against an armed intruder who is actively seeking to do you harm, and that's if you're even awake. Statistically, an armed homeowner is more likely to have his weapon used against him or stolen by an intruder.
Get real. Does ANYONE have anything to say that DOESN'T just amount to them beating on their chest and talking about being a suburban gunslinger?
Homeless
so what you are saying is the police have a crystal ball and can determine which are real andwhich are false alarms. I give a perfect scenario as to why people need to depend on their own ability to protect themselves rather than wholely depend on the police. And what do you do. You make it out to be a trivial incodent. Tell that to whats his name from the washington Redskins.
You talk about curing poverty. How do you propose we do that. force people to stay in school? How do you propose we make people develop a sense of pride,determination,and good lifes decisions. The majority of poor are poor of their own decisions they have made in their lives. wether they droped out of school,became teenage parents,or just plain lazy.
for some reason you equate the belief of owning a gun for protection to being a redneck or wanting to kill someone. I for one am not a redneck nor do I wish to have to kill someone. But unlike you I am prepared to defend my family if neccisary. You sound like the kind of nutless person who would crawl out a window and run to a neighbors to get to a phone and wait for the police's lengthy respose time while leaving your family in harms way because you are to scared or as you put it to much of a "World Thinker" who would let his family possibly die.
You my friend are so far of left that I would think you would be better off finding a nice little socialistic country to live in, That way you can let the government decide what's best for you.I am glad you have such a great education. even if your degrees are just about the easiest to obtain next to a liberal arts degree. You are deffinately far superior to the rest of us. Not like you got an engineering,medical,phsics,aerospace or other degrees that truly need brains. You are deffinately the higher evolution of the species.:rolleyes: Mybe you could teach all of us to sit around and make excuses for why the poor are poor and how we should give up everything we have worked for to those who don't deserve it.

[delemorte]

wow is this thread still goin??? ill have to catch up now....

[delemorte]

Enjoy your time with your antiquated rifle, delemorte, and make sure you practice well enough that you'll be able to resist your government if it becomes tyrannical. I'd love to see what your Mosin-Nagant does against an Apache-Longbow.
Homeless
Wow you sound like a total dip shit. that antique is a functioning conversation peice that actually saw action in the second world war. Shooting it is just a reminder of the people who served with it. That along with the K98.
self defence is the bennelli in the safe and the M4 at the ready. Go hug a tree you looser.

[delemorte]

BTW delemorte, nice piece, but you might consider some hearing protection.
My boss said the same thing. I was wearing ear plugs... im not that stupid.

[delemorte]

Dude, You need to get out and see the real world. Come spend the day with me delivering 30,000.00 dollars worth of liquor in the ghetto. You will be begging for a gun by lunch time. lol
this made me laugh...

[Kachina26]

My boss said the same thing. I was wearing ear plugs... im not that stupid.
Well then, how stupid are you? J/K, couldn't pass it up.

[delemorte]

Wow... just wow... i just read all of that and i dont know what to say...
Well yes I do... but you know... ill keep this simple.
I do not live in a community with a gate or guards and do leave my dwelling. The police are not able to be there 100% of the times so there by are relegated to being a reactive force against crime and not a proactive one. So the burden to protect my home my life and my family are left up to me and me alone. Period point blank.
The Supreme Court has ruled the second amendment allows me to own as many firearms as I want so I am well within the law.
Lastly gun free zones are good guy gun free zones... Countries with a high population of gun owners and gun carriers have less issues... the swiss are an example but so is isreal. Terrorist stop using guns to stage attacks inside of Israel after the government started to encourage its citizens to become arms and conceal carry...
Yes guns can be dangerous. Yes there should be higher standards to own and carry a firearm. However a properly trained citizen prepared to defend him self is an asset to his home and his community.
Lastly, an armed country insures a free country... only tyrant’s fear an armed populous.

[delemorte]

Well then, how stupid are you? J/K, couldn't pass it up.
I own a hole in the water that i continue to throw money into...
Also that sig is freakin me out bro.. you need to switch it up....

[delemorte]

Carry.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531025.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616563)
Conceal carry
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531112.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616569)
Home defence
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723530935.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616557)
Shits and giggles...
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531124.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616573)

[AzMandella]

Carry.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531025.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616563)
Conceal carry
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531112.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616569)
Home defence
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723530935.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616557)
Shits and giggles...
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531124.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616573)
Oh boy I can't wait to see Nutless in Az reaction to this. You sir have now become a redneck. Pretty funny how he considers himself a "world Thinker". Yet he has managed to stereotype everyone on this board into somthing that is obviosly a lesser class than the one he seems to place himself in.

[delemorte]

interesting quote... Wasnt he a founding father and an original patriot? I wonder what he really thought about his second amendment? Can you think of a single person in the entire history of America that better represents what it means to be called a patriot or an american?
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)
Its about your rights given to you by our founding fathers and not having your goverment take them away...

[delemorte]

Oh boy I can't wait to see Nutless in Az reaction to this. You sir have now become a redneck. Pretty funny how he considers himself a "world Thinker". Yet he has managed to stereotype everyone on this board into somthing that is obviosly a lesser class than the one he seems to place himself in.
Just because I have used the word Yee Haa in a sentence in casual conversation does not make me a redneck sir.... However I am from the south so who the hell knows at this point...

[delemorte]

Oh boy I can't wait to see Nutless in Az reaction to this. You sir have now become a redneck. Pretty funny how he considers himself a "world Thinker". Yet he has managed to stereotype everyone on this board into somthing that is obviosly a lesser class than the one he seems to place himself in.
Oh and i forgot my back up..
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531084.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616565)
and the last ditch im gonna die but i got one more stuffed in my sock peice.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531049.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616567)

[delemorte]

Antiquate this you tree hugger...
Wasting ammo.... damn i love wasting ammo.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AbMYsZvqpOk

[ULTRA26 # 1]

delemorte
A serious looking collection you have there.

[YeLLowBoaT]

delemorte
A serious looking collection you have there.
Really thats nothing...

[delemorte]

if you ask the wife she thinks its alot but its really not. I know some guys with dozens. I like the antiques the best though. the story behind a WW2 K98 and to think about who carried it and where it might have seen action is really neat. not to mention my great grandfather carried one like mine in WW1 and WW2.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

if you ask the wife she thinks its alot but its really not. I know some guys with dozens. I like the antiques the best though. the story behind a WW2 K98 and to think about who carried it and where it might have seen action is really neat. not to mention my great grandfather carried one like mine in WW1 and WW2.
To someone like me, who doesn't own one, it looks like a nice collection. I know there are guys with many more. It's relative like anything else.

[delemorte]

To someone like me, who doesn't own one, it looks like a nice collection. I know there are guys with many more. It's relative like anything else.
Exactly... its like me looking at your sig and saying "holy crap thats a nice boat"...... but holy crap thats a nice boat...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Exactly... its like me looking at your sig and saying "holy crap thats a nice boat"...... but holy crap thats a nice boat...
Thanks for the compliment. :) :)

[Old Texan]

Funny, he posted this in another thread. I hope it's not a self portrait. Sorry YB, it was just to good to pass up:D
http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/Sorry_Babe.jpg
Oh my gawd, can you picture that lardasse in a canoe......:D :D :D :D
Fat old gay boy with a toy fetish, quite "Worldly" ther Mr. Citizen......:devil:

[bubbletop409]

Problem is that most of the people in power aren't of this same opinion, and that's what scares me.
"A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject."
Can't think of a better reason to vote out all incumbents. The framers of the Constitution did not foresee that this current gang of reps would try to be career politicans. That was never the intention, go to congress, represent your area for awhile, then a fresh face with fresh ideas, not this good ol boy BS. Most of them are out of touch with reality, and have no clue what their constituents desire.

[homelessinaz]

so lets talk about the violent crime that I beleave is the worst... rape.
Tell me how rapes are directly linked to poverty?
While your at it, explain how the most common cuase of death of pregant women is the men that inpreganted them and how that always relates to poverty.
Let me guess I'm also a crazy becuase I have atleast 2 weeks of food/ water at hand and a 72 hour kit for myself/my faimly in the closet by the door. I see no diffrence between those supplys and being armed/trained to defend myself.
One final Q...
lets just say that all guns were banned tomarrow, and no one in the US was in poverty, would you ban sword or knifes? They are just as leathal as a gun, infact the chances of dieing from a knife wound is higher then a bullet wound... so should we ban those too?
Rape and poverty:
I don't know if there is a correlation between sexual assault and poverty, it wouldn't seem like there would be, but I was talking about the relationship of poverty to crimes against property and crimes against people that occur when people are robbed for their possessions. I don't disagree with your assertion that men are most often responsible for attacks against their pregnant life partners either, but I don't know that to be a fact either. In either case, I don't see how either of your assertions disproves what I was saying, which is that poverty is the root cause of most violent crime. Remember that poverty is also linked to limited education, so when I say that poverty causes crime, I also include the crime that is borne out of lack of educational achievement.
If, as in your hypothetical scenario, poverty was eliminated and guns were banned and removed, I don't imagine we'd need to ban swords or knives, but since we're playing hypotheticals here, sure, I'd be in favor of banning anything that could be used as a weapon.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Ok lets talk about other crimes against a person...
assult, mayham, battery... explain how those are related to poverty.
since your against things that can be used as weapons... ok lets see...
Claw hammer... deadly
skrewdrivers... deadly
Pry bar... deadly( Infact I have used this as a deadly weapon... soon as it came out they desided they did not want my wallet that bad)
Razor knife... deadly
Chisel... deadly
Rope...deadly
What do all these "deadly weapons" have in common... they always stay in my truck. I use them almost every day for work, I could not make a living with out them... So yes lets ban every thing that could be used as a deadly weapon

[homelessinaz]

Homeless,
I have to give you a little credit for holding onto your ideas, even though they fly in the face of most of mine, I really dont think you have any real world experience with random violence and murder committed against innocent citizens, my career has been based on the misfortunes of others, I think I have attained a skill and experience level at this point to comment here, if people intent on doing harm to others are not confronted at the time of the act, then they do as they please, who cares about the legal system, the educational system, the prison system when you, a friend, or a family member are in immediate danger. A person able to react to that situation with only the response necessary to stop the situation will in my opinion be a better person, I dont understand how you could lay in bed with your family sleeping in your home, hear the sound of an intruder entering and feel you do not have the "right" to arm yourself and protect your family, the thinking that "911" is your only means for protection, damn!!......its your family. I think if you heard the sound of your 13 year old daughters panties being ripped off her body and you had the decision to debate social order and the second ammendant or fire both barrels I would like to think, Homeless, you would aim and fire.............
Once again instead of a rational discussion I'm being bombarded with apocolyptic hypothetical what ifs. How many people in this room have ever had a gun pointed at them or had to witness the rape of a family member? If you did, were you doing something at the time of the incident that increased your chances of being a victim?
I can lay in bed and get sleep at night despite the fact that I haven't weaponized my home because I have a shred of faith in the basic goodness of my fellow man. I don't believe most people (or even a lot of people) are out to do me harm. Honestly, you people are what scares me. You all go on with all your paranoia and hyper-readiness to kill someone over property, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that guy from Pasadena, Joe Horn, was one of your common heroes.
Speaking of Joe Horn, I hope that justice is served and that he is judged as harshly as he judged the two victims he murdered. This is EXACTLY why average citizens shouldn't be armed. 61 year old racist bigots decide to take the law into their own hands and appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner. Two men are dead by his hands, two men who were possibly guilty of stealing property from upper middle-class suburbanites who probably wouldn't have even noticed what was taken. Is that your idea of sanity and civilization?
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

The criminal that stuck a 9MM in my gut was simply a 34 year old convicted felon that was trying to impress his 15 year old girlfriend. He decided that $10 worth of beer was worth the next 14 years of his life just to impress a little girl with just how tough he was. I did what you advocate and pulled my cellphone out to call the police, which by the way did not prevent the crime. The criminal pointed the gun at me again from the back of his car to get me to put my phone down.
I have a challenge for you that would be right up your alley considering the degrees you hold that you are so proud of.
Post on every forum on HB the question of where the people on this site came up with the ability to spend $1500 to hundreds of thousands of dollars on their ***boats. Then post the raw data as well as your conclusions for all to comment on. I do realize that there is no government grant involved as that is your only source of income (My Tax Dollars). Maybe you could do it just because this is the kind of thing you have devoted your life to.
So, you'd REALLY be willing to kill another human being over $10 worth of beer and some pride? Consider this, if you don't like having guns pointed at you, maybe you should take it up with the Republicans who pander to pro-gun lobbyists, or the lobbyists themselves, like the NRA. Perhaps if they'd ALLOW some gun control, you wouldn't have to deal with being threatened with a gun.
If you want to tell me how you are able to afford your boat, feel free I guess, but I really don't see what that has to do with the topic of gun control. If you're bursting with pride, great. In any event, your "hobby" of boating, pardon me, ***boating is a great way to burn limited energy resources, sustain high gas prices, increase the US dependence on foreign oil and damage the environment.
Does it really matter if your boat is paid for in cash? Let me ask you this, have you saved all the money you're going to need for your child's college education as well as your retirement and the expense of medical bills later? The reason I ask is because conservatives are so big on not relying on government, I'd hate to think that you're compromising your rugged independence to pay for your ***boat lifestyle.
I don't understand what you mean when you say that you doubt I've lived my life. What do you mean?

[homelessinaz]

I agree that is your right to own a gun for personal safety if you so choose.
To too have looked down the barrel of a large caliber handgun, and I can say that when the guy pointing the gun told me to hit the ground I did, and quickly.
However, I do not own a gun and I don't plan to. I don't see it as being necessary.
Careful, ULTRA26, if you don't see owning a gun as absolutlely necessary and very patriotic, you might get a reputation around here. After all, how are we going to rely on you to overthrow tyrannical government? Why, according to Thomas Jefferson it's your patriotic duty to have guns, according to another ***boater.
Are you planning of freeloading your share of personal security from someone else who has the vision and foresight to own lots of assault rifles?
Gee whiz Ralphie, who's going to defend your family from Black Bart when he comes into your backyard?
Homeless
PS If Jefferson were alive today I totally think he'd be a ***boater.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Careful, ULTRA26, if you don't see owning a gun as absolutlely necessary and very patriotic, you might get a reputation around here. After all, how are we going to rely on you to overthrow tyrannical government? Why, according to Thomas Jefferson it's your patriotic duty to have guns, according to another ***boater.
Are you planning of freeloading your share of personal security from someone else who has the vision and foresight to own lots of assault rifles?
Gee whiz Ralphie, who's going to defend your family from Black Bart when he comes into your backyard?
Homeless
PS If Jefferson were alive today I totally think he'd be a ***boater.
no there is a big deffrence between some one that says I don't feel the need to own a gun for protection, but if you feel the need thats ok and some one that says all guns are bad and no one should have them.

[homelessinaz]

After playing music for a living until I was 33, I have worked for the same Company for 23 years. I have been in a management position for 17 years and there have been times when my Department consisted of 106 people. I started boating again in 1994 with a Cole Super Hawk, in 1999 build a Warlock theft recovery and I am now on my third Ultra, which I own outright. I was a single parent from 1993 until my Son moved out in 2000. I devoted my like to being a parent and to my job, ( in that order) and my hard work paid off in both regards. My Son is an upstanding, hard working home owning citizen at 26 years old and I have a great life. He and I still do the boating thing together.
The things that I have been able to own as a result of my hard work are things that I enjoy very much, and therefore, are in no way frivolous. Boating is a passion. My .02
That's such a beautiful and touching story, ULTRA26. A man has a job, makes money and buys stuff, how inspiring! Someone HAS TO make a movie about that, it's such an unusual and meaningful life.
All ribbing aside, what's your point? It sounds to me like you think that being a consumer and buying stuff is the meaning of life, like being a consumer is the height of freedom.
As a citizen, can't you think of anything more fulfilling than that? I'm not knocking you, but don't you think you could hope for more? I mean, what if you used your accumulated wealth to help another person? Imagine how many kids you could've taken to a doctor with all the money you've spent on boats and gas and all the associated costs of boating. I am not even kidding, what if you found some kid who needed an operation but whose family made too much money to get government assistance, but whose family was also too poor to pay? Wouldn't that feel great? Wouldn't you remember that feeling forever? What if you just used to money to send some kid to camp?
Think about it.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

I give a perfect scenario as to why people need to depend on their own ability to protect themselves rather than wholely depend on the police. And what do you do. You make it out to be a trivial incodent. Tell that to whats his name from the washington Redskins.
The majority of poor are poor of their own decisions they have made in their lives. wether they droped out of school,became teenage parents,or just plain lazy.
...You my friend are so far of left that I would think you would be better off finding a nice little socialistic country to live in, That way you can let the government decide what's best for you...
"What's his name from the Washington Redskins" (Sean Taylor) would've probably died even if he did have a gun. He was one guy facing 4 armed intruders. If he'd have started a massive gun battle it's more likely that his fiance and daughter who were in the room would've been hurt or killed.
It's funny how you see the poor in this country as being victims of their own laziness. Poor people in this country are largely hardworking, and they work harder than most middle class except for less money. They aren't victims of their own laziness or stupidity as much as they are victims of a government/industrial complex that has driven out much of the manufacturing sector of our economy while simutaneously weakening the organized labor movement through union busting and a National Labor Relations Board that has been stacked with pro Big Business (anti-labor) appointees for 19 of the last 27 years.
I don't feel the need to find a new country to live in, because this country is gradually moving in the direction I'd like to see it go. If you look here:
http://www.federalbudget.com/
You'll see that the most highly funded department is the Health and Human Services department. It's even better funded than the Department of Defense. It hasn't always been this way, so I see that progress IS being made, the People are being heard, and I will just stay and work to change this country, thank you very much.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Wow you sound like a total dip shit. that antique is a functioning conversation peice that actually saw action in the second world war. Shooting it is just a reminder of the people who served with it. That along with the K98.
self defence is the bennelli in the safe and the M4 at the ready. Go hug a tree you looser.
This post doesn't merit a reply.

[homelessinaz]

[QUOTE=delemorte;2926274]
Conceal carry
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531112.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616569)
Maybe if you display some of that famous conservative workin' ethic you can scrape up enough money to buy 11 MATCHING bullets for that concealed carry gun.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)
Its about your rights given to you by our founding fathers and not having your goverment take them away...
Here's a buch of other stuff he said:
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.
Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do.
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Every generation needs a new revolution.
Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.
Homeless

[STV_Keith]

Sorry, but this is a long one, to catch up on what has been said.
Geesh, where do I start? There is no comparison between an item which was designed to kill and a defective product that accidentally hurts people, however, I do believe that the Consumer Product Safey Commission seeks to limit the harm that flawed products can inflict, isn't that the same thing? I support that as well as limiting gun ownership.
So guns were designed ONLY to kill? No one does anything with them other than kill? I'm not a statistician, but I'm sure someone can come up with the stats of people killed by firearm and people killed by automobile...which has the higher death rate?
I think conservatives go way too far with that whole, "I'm going to take care of myself and I don't need no guv'ment tryin to protect me" bit. How about we disband the FAA and get rid of all the air traffic controllers too? Aren't we all smart enough to see if we're about to hit another plane or a mountain? Do we really need to government to coddle us with terminal guidance and weather reports? How about the Food and Drug Administration too, let's get rid of them next. We'll just decide for ourselves what drugs work and what's bad. That's about how much sense you make when you suggest that armed and untrained citizens are ANY kind of substitute for the Police. How about if we dump the Fire Department too and we'll all just carry fire extinguishers?
Interesting that all of the agencies you used to illustrate your point have nothing to do with the end user - they all regulate a business selling a product or service. FAA - airlines, not passengers; FDA - food processors, grocery stores, etc - not shoppers.
And who said anything about being a substitute for the police? I'm not looking to stop the gangs from doing their thing...I only care to protect MYSELF. If I choose to do so, I should not be limited to having less firepower/items to protect myself, than the criminals (which will obtain them illegally anyway) would have.
Instead of being selfish and thinking about what you're going to do if you're threatened by violent crime, why not get beyond yourself and your selfish worldview and think about what we can do to reduce the root causes of violent crime, namely poverty and inequity; the problems associated with having a class of "haves" and a class of "have nots".
What am I going to do to help everyone else? Not a damn thing. They aren't my responsibility...that's the Police's job...reduce the root causes of violent crime. I only care to protect myself because I know that the probability is that when the time comes, the police won't be there to do it for me.
And as for the haves and have nots, I'm a have because I choose to work for a living. I don't collect unemployment (even though I've currently been unemployed for 6 weeks), and probably never will, just like I don't ask the Government to "help me out" to pay my mortgage. Everyone that is physically able should have a job...keeps people out of trouble, but the problem is that most of these "have nots" as you say, don't have zip for a work ethic. They'd rather let someone else make the money and mail them a check. For those people, I have no empathy. If you do, that's great...go give all your money to the United Way or whatever - but I bust my butt for what I have and I'll be damned if someone is going to take it because they chose NOT to bust their butt.
Seriously, there are things you can do to help. You could devote time and money to helping inner-city youth rise above their circumstances, you can donate to the Urban League or to other worthy charities and college scholarships. Seriously, conservatism is always talking about personal charities being better than government hand-outs, so why not?
Not that we could expect a straight answer, but how much of this do you do?
My bottom line is if you don't want to be a victim of violent crime, the best thing to do isn't buying a gun to shoot your attacker, but investing in a solution that would keep your attacker from turning to a life of crime in the first place.
Your logic is flawed...because you are assuming that if everyone was given the same opportunities, the outcome would be the same. The sad fact is that there are many people that regardless of what is given to them, they always want more, and think that everyone else is taking it away from them...and will always seek the easy way out - never knowing the real value of an honest days' work. A life of crime is a decision, not a destiny.
Simply put, if you are aware of your surroundings, lock your house and stay away from dangerous areas (think dark mall parking lot, ATM at night, etc) and participate in a neighborhood watch program, your chances of being a victim of violent crime are very low. All this paranoia about making sure you always have a loaded gun leads me to the conclusion that you people are obsessed with and foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to shoot someone. It's just that simple.
So now you are saying that the chance of being a victim is so low that it almost won't happen if you're vigilant in doing those things...so why would it matter if I have a gun if the probability is SO LOW that I will ever have to use it to protect myself? See, it's like having a condom...Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Just because someone has it doesn't mean they will ever use it in any act of self defense or otherwise. If you believe that everyone is so good on the inside, then why can't we be trusted to own this weapon?
I have now offered an alternative solution to killing people at least 3 different times, that alternative being to address the root cause of crime (poverty) before young people turn to a life I crime. I have brought that up at least 3 different times, yet no one comments about that.
Who said anything about killing people? At least in my mind, protecting myself only requires that I STOP the criminal from doing whatever it is to me. When you say KILL, that's putting the tone of premeditation to the action, or that the only outcome of the altercation will result in death. And to your other question, I commented on it, read above.
By the way, even if you are in your house and you have a loaded gun, the odds are poor that you'd be able to use it successfully against an armed intruder. Unless you have it loaded and on your person and are looking for danger around every corner, you would probably fair poorly against an armed intruder who is actively seeking to do you harm, and that's if you're even awake. Statistically, an armed homeowner is more likely to have his weapon used against him or stolen by an intruder.
That certainly depends on your level of training and preparedness now doesn't it? That could easily be likened to having defensive driving or autocross type driving classes and preparation to make you a better driver on the road every day. Doesn't mean you're going to race to and from work, but trains your mind to look at/for things that the average, untrained individual doesn't know to look for. It becomes the responsibility of the gun owner to get the training they need; however, I'd give the upper hand to an untrained person WITH a weapon versus an untrained person WITHOUT a weapon in any confrontation.
If we can take care of the poverty, the crime will take care of itself. You won't need a gun, and the only people who'd still be demanding to have one would be people who are nuts.
OK, so how is that to happen? Am I supposed to work a bunch of extra hours, out of the goodness of my heart and give the money to someone else? Do you? What non-profit organization do you work for? Can I assume that you live in section 8 housing, and ride a bike to work because you have given all your money to the underprivileged in your area?
I was talking about the relationship of poverty to crimes against property and crimes against people that occur when people are robbed for their possessions.
So you think the criminals feel bad that they don't have a 55" TV, so they steal one and take it home to use? HELL NO - they steal it, sell it and buy other crap that does them no good (drugs, hookers, etc) - they don't use the money to better themselves.
I have a shred of faith in the basic goodness of my fellow man.
And that may one day get you killed. I guess you don't live anywhere near these poor people you keep talking about, because they may be coming for your stuff soon.
Two men are dead by his hands, two men who were possibly guilty of stealing property from upper middle-class suburbanites who probably wouldn't have even noticed what was taken.
So are you saying that had they stolen from someone in another income bracket that it would have be more or less of a crime? Do you see this as crime or do you see it as these two guys were trying to better themselves (albeit at someone else's expense)?
On a final note, I would like to add this...I am man enough to stand behind my views here and anywhere. My picture has been on this website, as well as others and I have more than 50 posts to my credit (more like 2000+ on this board alone). I can and have proved myself as a real person, with a real job, real boats, real guns, etc. You sir are a noobie on this board and I simply say that if you continue to ask us to believe that you are anything besides a troll looking to get a rise out of us, that you post up pictures of you, your house and your boat - I assume you own some kind of boat even though you keep saying how you should give up all your good stuff for the benefit of the poor in this world. And if you don't have a boat, why and how did you come to this website in the first place?
Just to clear it up, here's a picture of me, my house and one of my boats. What's fair is fair - I will post up what I have requested you do the same.
http://b9.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01562/92/58/1562998529_m.jpg http://a796.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_8bf5a0bfde721fb8df35dcc8ea7b1e1b.jpg http://a998.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/36/l_dda3e9f7d5b856dce4f0b5cc14a95bfd.jpg
There you go man, I'm as real as it gets...let's see if you can man up to prove the same.

[homelessinaz]

Ok lets talk about other crimes against a person...
assult, mayham, battery... explain how those are related to poverty.
since your against things that can be used as weapons... ok lets see...
Claw hammer... deadly
skrewdrivers... deadly
Pry bar... deadly( Infact I have used this as a deadly weapon... soon as it came out they desided they did not want my wallet that bad)
Razor knife... deadly
Chisel... deadly
Rope...deadly
What do all these "deadly weapons" have in common... they always stay in my truck. I use them almost every day for work, I could not make a living with out them... So yes lets ban every thing that could be used as a deadly weapon
Assaults and batteries are often included in robberies or in gang activites. Robberies and gang activity are correlated to poverty, joblessness and low eduactional achievement. What's your point?
For the record, if I have to be attacked, I'd prefer to be attacked with:
a Claw hammer, a skrewdriver, a Pry bar, a Razor knife, a Chisel or a Rope.
I don't see any of these being used successfully through a door or a car or from 400 yards away.

[STV_Keith]

For the record, if I have to be attacked, I'd prefer to be attacked with:
a Claw hammer, a skrewdriver, a Pry bar, a Razor knife, a Chisel or a Rope.
I don't see any of these being used successfully through a door or a car or from 400 yards away.
Really? You don't think a claw hammer or a pry bar can do some damage, including breaking your window to get at you?
Also, what are the statistics for deaths by firearms at over 400 yards? Most pistols won't even shoot that far. So now the criminals are shooting high powered rifles with scopes at the people they wish to steal from at 400 yards, then running 400 yds to get to the loot? C'mon, gimme a break man, now you're reaching BIG TIME.
Oh, and here's your under-educated, poor, repressed by the man, guy, NOT beating the crap of a car with a pry bar. Bear with the language until 40 seconds in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_JfC7BTiWA

[homelessinaz]

So guns were designed ONLY to kill? No one does anything with them other than kill? I'm not a statistician, but I'm sure someone can come up with the stats of people killed by firearm and people killed by automobile...which has the higher death rate?
Well, as far as I know THAT (killing) is exactly what guns are designed to do. Do you know differently? Are there people out there now marketing guns as dual purpose items? I'm sure you could use a gun as a really primitive hammer, or maybe even as a saw or something, but last I knew guns are designed to kill.
Interesting that all of the agencies you used to illustrate your point have nothing to do with the end user - they all regulate a business selling a product or service. FAA - airlines, not passengers; FDA - food processors, grocery stores, etc - not shoppers.
Yeah, they ensure that the public is protected during the transactions with airlines and grocers and the pharmaceutical industry. That's how I see the Police, as protectors.
And who said anything about being a substitute for the police? I'm not looking to stop the gangs from doing their thing...I only care to protect MYSELF. If I choose to do so, I should not be limited to having less firepower/items to protect myself, than the criminals (which will obtain them illegally anyway) would have.
The point isn't to disarm people like you, the point is to a) eradicate poverty and improve the standard of living so that guns aren't necessary for law abiding citizens to feel secure, and b) severely restrict the availability of guns in order to protect the public.
Bottom line, I'm not looking to disarm you so much as I am looking to remove threats against you. Get it?
What am I going to do to help everyone else? Not a damn thing. They aren't my responsibility...that's the Police's job...reduce the root causes of violent crime. I only care to protect myself because I know that the probability is that when the time comes, the police won't be there to do it for me.
Once again, the point isn't so much to reduce your options to protect yourself as it is to REMOVE THE THREATS AGAINST YOU.
While we're on this topic, I want to make an observation. You disavowed any responsibility towards helping your fellow man.
Is that really a Christian attitude?
I want to make this clear, I don't want this to turn into a scripture debate. I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, AND I DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW THE MIND OF CHRIST, but...I have read the Bible, and I am familiar with Christian principles.
For every "...turn the other cheek..." scripture I can come up with, I know that you can match me with a contrary scripture from the very same teatament. Honestly, that's one of my big problems with the Christian philosophy, that it has so many contradictions, so I am not looking to enter into a theological showdown here...
BUT,
If you are a believer, let me ask you this; would Jesus have a ***boat?
Would Jesus declare that he gives a damn about his fellow man and was ready to blow someone's guts out over a larceny?
Think about it...
And as for the haves and have nots, I'm a have because I choose to work for a living. I don't collect unemployment (even though I've currently been unemployed for 6 weeks), and probably never will, just like I don't ask the Government to "help me out" to pay my mortgage. Everyone that is physically able should have a job...keeps people out of trouble, but the problem is that most of these "have nots" as you say, don't have zip for a work ethic. They'd rather let someone else make the money and mail them a check. For those people, I have no empathy. If you do, that's great...go give all your money to the United Way or whatever - but I bust my butt for what I have and I'll be damned if someone is going to take it because they chose NOT to bust their butt.
Keith, you know damn good and well that those people whom you pass on the freeway onramp and the people who camp out in front of Home Depot who BEG for a chance to come to your house and perform some menial task WORK DAMN HARD for a living. You have to know that your worst day is their wet dream. The poor aren't poor because they're lazy, they're poor because they're contributions have been systematically cheapened.
Do YOU really want to work in a sweatshop all day for less than what you make now?
How about a corner taco stand? Do you want to do that for $80 a day? How'd you like it if you put out that kind of effort for no reward and then had some ***boater demean you because, in his eyes, you were poor and lazy?
So now you are saying that the chance of being a victim is so low that it almost won't happen if you're vigilant in doing those things...so why would it matter if I have a gun if the probability is SO LOW that I will ever have to use it to protect myself? See, it's like having a condom...Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
When was the last time that a child found an unattended condom and accidentally discharged it and killed his little sister?
On a final note, I would like to add this...I am man enough to stand behind my views here and anywhere. My picture has been on this website, as well as others and I have more than 50 posts to my credit (more like 2000+ on this board alone). I can and have proved myself as a real person, with a real job, real boats, real guns, etc. You sir are a noobie on this board and I simply say that if you continue to ask us to believe that you are anything besides a troll looking to get a rise out of us, that you post up pictures of you, your house and your boat - I assume you own some kind of boat even though you keep saying how you should give up all your good stuff for the benefit of the poor in this world. And if you don't have a boat, why and how did you come to this website in the first place?
That's a real nice house/boat/truck and all that, and honestly you've brought the most thought provoking points to the table so far, but...I don't know you, and even if I did know you and trust you, there are all kinds of people on this forum who scare me, so I am NOT going to be posting pics or personal info here. Maybe I can give you a link to some other forums I post on to establish that I am who I say I am, but I am NOT posting a pic where Rio Dog or YellowBoat can see them. Sorry, I am for real, but those guys kinda scare me.
Homeless

[STV_Keith]

Well, as far as I know THAT (killing) is exactly what guns are designed to do. Do you know differently? Are there people out there now marketing guns as dual purpose items? I'm sure you could use a gun as a really primitive hammer, or maybe even as a saw or something, but last I knew guns are designed to kill.
I guess this is more of a philosophical debate than it is one of fact...because an automobile can easily kill many people, even though that's not it's intended design. So an automotibile can kill many, even though it was designed for transportation. A gun may have originally been designed to kill, but that doesn't mean it always has to do so. I have personally shot tens of thousands of rounds recreationally from the time I was probably 5 or 6 until today - obviously always through a weapon - yet I have never shot or killed anyone. So, yes, items designed for one purpose can be used for other purposes.
Yeah, they ensure that the public is protected during the transactions with airlines and grocers and the pharmaceutical industry. That's how I see the Police, as protectors.
But you missed the point. Those organizations regulate one entity (company) providing a service to a patron (customer). The police are not going to regulate what crimes may be committed against a person, since criminal acts cannot (as of yet - yes, I saw that movie) be predicted by LE or the intended victim. Where the FAA and FDA have days/weeks/months to deal with problems and issues, the police are generally dealing with the aftermath of the crime.
The point isn't to disarm people like you, the point is to a) eradicate poverty and improve the standard of living so that guns aren't necessary for law abiding citizens to feel secure, and b) severely restrict the availability of guns in order to protect the public.
That is certainly good to hear. If you're not for disarming me, then how would you go about disarming the criminals? Problem is that law abiding citizens that legally procure and possess weapons are usually NOT the problem or offender. It's the criminal who has usually stolen or purchased a stolen weapon that is commiting a crime. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is a great quote to this point. The criminals are not afraid of the court system, and therefore will not abide by the laws regarding guns that law abiding citizens would...therefore, the only individuals hurt by passing legislation to remove weapons from the populace ONLY impact the law abiding citizens.
Until you can brainwash every person in the world to be a zombie, there will always be bad things happening. Wether those bad things are done physically, with a car or a weapon, just comes down to what the criminal had at his/her disposal to gain the upper hand on the intended victim. Where we currently have a fighting chance is that the criminals don't know who is armed and who isn't. That should be a deterrent, but since so few people carry compared to the populace, the odds are in their favor that they will come upon somone not able to protect themselves. That is NOT the situation I plan to put myself in. In my mind, protecting my person against a criminal is just as important (if not, moreso) than planning and protecting my retirement fund. Both will be needed down the road.
Bottom line, I'm not looking to disarm you so much as I am looking to remove threats against you. Get it?
I understand, but there is no way to disarm the criminals, period.
While we're on this topic, I want to make an observation. You disavowed any responsibility towards helping your fellow man. Is that really a Christian attitude?
And certainly I don't want to turn this into a religious topic (those always go downhill quickly). My personal thoughts and beliefs are not in question here. The matter at hand is to describe and delineate the reasons why a law abiding citizen would want the ability to protect him/her-self with a weapon.
Keith, you know damn good and well that those people whom you pass on the freeway onramp and the people who camp out in front of Home Depot who BEG for a chance to come to your house and perform some menial task WORK DAMN HARD for a living. You have to know that your worst day is their wet dream. The poor aren't poor because they're lazy, they're poor because they're contributions have been systematically cheapened.
The people I pass at the freeway offramps are largely "Vets" or so their signs say. These guys have the ability to buy a house for $1 down, way better deal than I had available to me. These guys get good medical coverage, better than I have. I've seen the news stories about the kind of coin these guys can bring in...but what it comes down to is willingness to work. Sure, their sign says they'll work, but they're hoping that you just toss them a buck and don't call them on it.
I've delivered a McDonalds burger or two to these guys in the past, and they are grateful, but again it's poor choices on their part that put them where they are. I have also spoken with people who help the homeless like this, and many times these guys just don't have the willpower to better themselves. If that's their choice, so be it. I have no problem with them being as little or as much as they choose...and for that choice, I don't feel that I should be burdened with having to support them.
Trump has way more money than me, but I don't ask him for money to buy a better truck than I have, or a newer boat, etc. I choose to do for myself, because I can provide for myself what no one else will. Every person has that option.
How'd you like it if you put out that kind of effort for no reward and then had some ***boater demean you because, in his eyes, you were poor and lazy?
I think we're getting a bit off topic here. We're not demeaning anyone...Just don't want anyone to saddle me down with their politics because they don't have the same value system that I do.
This comes back to the point I tried to make back on the first page of this thread...Let me do what I want and I'll let you do what you want. Why should you be telling me what I can and can't own? I choose not to do that to my fellow man. Do whatever you want, just don't tread on me. Simple - golden rule type stuff.
When was the last time that a child found an unattended condom and accidentally discharged it and killed his little sister?
So is it the weapons fault that the kid pulled the trigger? Or the kids fault? Or the parents fault for not properly supervising the situation and making there home/area safe? Or is it because those kids' parents were poor and everyone is out to get them? In this day and age, unfortunately it doesn't seem that people are getting smarter. Common sense is no longer common, and a thinning of the gene pool is the result.
My grandfather taught me how to shoot as a kid. I was target shooting his .45 pistol on his ranch at 11. When we got done, I was shown how to clean it, where to properly store it and I knew not to touch it until he was around for our next plinking session. Proper teaching techniques trained me to do the right thing. The fact that I was taught and shown, rather than left to my curiosity, is why I never played with the weapon when I shouldn't have. That's called responsibility, and everyone needs to learn some and have some in life. This is one reason we have so many lawsuits in this country, no one ever wants to take responsibility for their own actions.
That's a real nice house/boat/truck and all that, and honestly you've brought the most thought provoking points to the table so far, but...I don't know you, and even if I did know you and trust you, there are all kinds of people on this forum who scare me, so I am NOT going to be posting pics or personal info here. Maybe I can give you a link to some other forums I post on to establish that I am who I say I am, but I am NOT posting a pic where Rio Dog or YellowBoat can see them. Sorry, I am for real, but those guys kinda scare me.
Homeless
Thanks, I've worked hard for my stuff over the years. As you can see, I have nothing to hide. The guys on this board are here because we have mutual interests - here it's boats. I haven't quite figured out exactly why you are here yet, since I don't believe you own a boat. But putting yourself out there for all to see adds some credibility to your argument. Many people will ignore you or bash you or beat you up on these boards if you don't have some kind of presence. There are many people here that I hang out with and go boating with. Hell, there's a big contingent going to Havasu this weekend for the boat parade and I still might go. Getting involved and actually meeting people and participating is what these forums are all about.
If your whole intent is to come here and try to win a bunch of people over to your way of thinking, with nothing else than words, with no truth or real-ness to who or what you are, you will not get much if any attention to your politics here.
Also, I assume because it's late, that you disregarded quite a few of the questions I posed back for you in my last post. I'd certainly like to see your retort on those in your next reply. I only assume you are willing to respond to most of what I'm writing back, since some thought and time is going into it. Again, just have to prove yourself a worthy adversary to keep it going. ;)
Just my $.02 (it's free). :)

[YeLLowBoaT]

When was the last time that a child found an unattended condom and accidentally discharged it and killed his little sister?
Maybe if the parents would have tuaght them about firearms safety that would have never happend... hell if the parents had fallowed the laws in EVERY SINGLE state that would not have happend. Kids shooting other kids = parents fault, peroid.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Assaults and batteries are often included in robberies or in gang activites. Robberies and gang activity are correlated to poverty, joblessness and low eduactional achievement. What's your point?
For the record, if I have to be attacked, I'd prefer to be attacked with:
a Claw hammer, a skrewdriver, a Pry bar, a Razor knife, a Chisel or a Rope.
I don't see any of these being used successfully through a door or a car or from 400 yards away.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit a target at 400 yd off hand with iorn sights on a rifle? Or how hard that is to do with a hand gun? The US Army has done several studys about hitting targets at range... guess what they found out. Upwards of 90% of Trained Soldiers can not hit targets effectivly at over 100yds and upwards of 98% of them can't hit targets effectivly at over 200 yds. So whats the odds that some crimal/gang banger is going to be able to use a weapon effectivly at 400 yds? Or what about the FBI? they have done studys stating that the chances of you being hit in a fire fight with a crimal go down more then 50% after 7 yds. BTW 7 yds is a "magic" number for LEO, Its the range that contact weapons are consitered to be deadly. Other then the rope, every thing I listed was a contact weapon.

[OKIE-JET]

It seems apparent that arguing with nutlessinaz is a study in redundancy, because he has been brainwashed into believing some mythical fairytale type stuff.
BTW, I've been a volunteer with the big-brother, big-sister org. in the past.
This year I went to our local Atwoods store, and chose a leaf from their Angel Tree project and bought toys for a child at the Jesus House (our local homeless shelter). I DONT however give spare change to every bum who begs for money.
I dont need to justify myself to you or anyone else for that matter, so just cause you think of me, or any of us, as gun totin', murdering rednecks, doesnt make it the truth. Someone already said that crime is a choice, not a destiny. You should get out more, and see what reality is all about.
Your comment on being a victim, maybe because you were doing something that brought it on, is way off. Victims are chosen by chance (not all). If youre in a crackhouse, then expect some negative, but taking your lady to the movies, dinner, a simple walk? You can not sanely defend this.
You started out with the position of removing guns completely from the hands of citazens, but, can you give statistics on how many gun crimes were commited be legally owned guns in this country?:idea:
Do you believe that if we were to remove guns, that criminals would somehow be unable to attain them?:idea:
Maybe the difference were discussing here is as simple as the level of preparedness each of us feels the need for. I carry lifejackets onboard my boats, along with whistle, a few common tools (being a jetboat owner of coarse:D), extra hose, etc...I have a generator to power the house in case of a severe, lengthy power outage. I have equiped the wifes ride with jumper-cables, a blanket and various other precautionary measures to insure her safety on the road in case of an emergency.....So WHY NOT a gun for home protection?.....or road, or boat, or camping? WHY NOT? If some scumbag picks me or my family out, and MAKES me his choice for exploitation, then why can I not have something to level the field?
Question: Have you ever been on a road trip to an unfamiliar area, pulled into a convenience store, jumped out and gone inside, then immediately realized that you may have just opened the door to being a victim of a violent crime? All because you just stumbled into a place you may not belong? Talking in this day and age dont go too far with crackheads, you're going to have a hard time convincing them that they dont really want your money.
I'm sure you will have some crazy response to this about how I'm proving your point. After you post it, go to Compton and talk to those guys with rational debate, then come back with what you learn, and enlighten us about the warm, good feelings you have about ALL mankind.
P.S. Please wear your sunday best, and make sure to fill your wallet.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Careful, ULTRA26, if you don't see owning a gun as absolutlely necessary and very patriotic, you might get a reputation around here. After all, how are we going to rely on you to overthrow tyrannical government? Why, according to Thomas Jefferson it's your patriotic duty to have guns, according to another ***boater.
Are you planning of freeloading your share of personal security from someone else who has the vision and foresight to own lots of assault rifles?
Gee whiz Ralphie, who's going to defend your family from Black Bart when he comes into your backyard?
Homeless
PS If Jefferson were alive today I totally think he'd be a ***boater.
I already have a reputation around here, so it matters not. Owning a gun(s) is a personal choice. Many feel the need to own to be safe and secure. I don't. Owing a gun is not a duty it's a choice.

[TonkaDriver]

Rape and poverty:
If, as in your hypothetical scenario, poverty was eliminated and guns were banned and removed, I don't imagine we'd need to ban swords or knives, but since we're playing hypotheticals here, sure, I'd be in favor of banning anything that could be used as a weapon.
Sure would make it difficult to cook and eat without knives. Oh and maybe we should ban trees also because a very lethal weapon can be fashioned from a tree branch.
How much more rediculous can you get?

[TonkaDriver]

So, you'd REALLY be willing to kill another human being over $10 worth of beer and some pride? Consider this, if you don't like having guns pointed at you, maybe you should take it up with the Republicans who pander to pro-gun lobbyists, or the lobbyists themselves, like the NRA. Perhaps if they'd ALLOW some gun control, you wouldn't have to deal with being threatened with a gun.
If you want to tell me how you are able to afford your boat, feel free I guess, but I really don't see what that has to do with the topic of gun control. If you're bursting with pride, great. In any event, your "hobby" of boating, pardon me, ***boating is a great way to burn limited energy resources, sustain high gas prices, increase the US dependence on foreign oil and damage the environment.
Does it really matter if your boat is paid for in cash? Let me ask you this, have you saved all the money you're going to need for your child's college education as well as your retirement and the expense of medical bills later? The reason I ask is because conservatives are so big on not relying on government, I'd hate to think that you're compromising your rugged independence to pay for your ***boat lifestyle.
I don't understand what you mean when you say that you doubt I've lived my life. What do you mean?
No Clueless in AZ I would not be willing to kill someone over $10 worth of beer but he was. I am very willing and now able to kill someone that threatens my life with a gun or knife or any other weapon.
As far as my challenge to you to show us what your precious degrees give you the skill to do. It seems that you have formed multiple opinions about the people here without data of any kind. You don't know anything about the people on this site but you tell us how superior you are because you have two degrees that enable you to make a living from taxpayers like me and everyone on this site. I will guarentee you that nobody on this site but you makes an income low enough to be tax exempt.
What I mean by living life is not watching and studying. It is doing. You study and watch and then you tell all those you watch how superior you are.
I have the means to help my son go to college if he desires to do so as most on this site.
Unlike you I have never begged the taxpayers of this great country to provide for me. You seem to consider yourself a constitutional expert. Tell me where in the constitution is it specified that the government is obligated to provide grants for people to study other people? I must have missed that part.
The point is that the people you find on this site are hard working, honest people from all walks of life that enjoy going fast on water. You will find everything from medical doctors, lawyers, teachers and truck drivers and every other occupation you can think of here. All hard working and passionate about life. If someone enjoys the sport of shooting or hunting it means just that. You label anyone with a gun a redneck. You decide that anyone that owns a gun and enjoys shooting is bloodthirsty and wanting to kill other people and you call us paranoid. What a joke.

[delemorte]

This post doesn't merit a reply.
No it does. you missed the point that its an antique and historical.

[delemorte]

[QUOTE=delemorte;2926274]
Conceal carry
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/25723531112.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6616569)
Maybe if you display some of that famous conservative workin' ethic you can scrape up enough money to buy 11 MATCHING bullets for that concealed carry gun.
Homeless
Thats a insurance photo to show the capacity. during carrry it is full to the brim with hydroshocks. Come break into my home i would be happy to show them to you.

[delemorte]

Oh homeless so I get it... you don’t believe in guns and my right as an American to have one or 100. It’s your right as a citizen to disagree with me and I would never take that away from you or your right to voice your opinion...
But one question. How do you call your self a libertarian when you support the government’s right to take away the rights given to you by the constitution?
I think people that don’t believe in the rights given to them by the constitution and upheld by the Supreme Court are not capable of understanding this thing called democracy and thereby should forfeit their right to vote. I know this is hard for you to hear but I don’t feel you are responsible enough to comprehend the complex decisions involved so there for you will just have to go by my choices for government.
Don’t worry this is just one right that you have that we will be taken from you. However since you no longer have the right to vote then it will be up to me to decide what rights you will also no longer need..

[TonkaDriver]

Homeless,
I have a very valid question for you. You state that you believe in the goodness in your fellow man. Why do you need to lock your doors?

[delemorte]

Careful, ULTRA26, if you don't see owning a gun as absolutlely necessary and very patriotic, you might get a reputation around here. After all, how are we going to rely on you to overthrow tyrannical government? Why, according to Thomas Jefferson it's your patriotic duty to have guns, according to another ***boater.
Are you planning of freeloading your share of personal security from someone else who has the vision and foresight to own lots of assault rifles?
Gee whiz Ralphie, who's going to defend your family from Black Bart when he comes into your backyard?
Homeless
PS If Jefferson were alive today I totally think he'd be a ***boater.
Do you doubt Jeffersons Patriotism or his thoughts about this coutry? If it was not for people like that then you would not be living is such a great coutry and would experience first hand a tyranical goverment.. but after reading more of your post. I agree, I think you are a troll just looking to start some arguments... go post elsewere.

[homelessinaz]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit a target at 400 yd off hand with iorn sights on a rifle? Or how hard that is to do with a hand gun? The US Army has done several studys about hitting targets at range... guess what they found out. Upwards of 90% of Trained Soldiers can not hit targets effectivly at over 100yds and upwards of 98% of them can't hit targets effectivly at over 200 yds.
I don't know anything about the Army or what their problem is, but Marines have targets at 500 yards on their qualification. I don't think they use scopes.

[homelessinaz]

No it does. you missed the point that its an antique and historical.
Okay, your gun is old and historical, so are the gas chambers at Auschwitz, does that make them worthy of collecting?

[OKIE-JET]

I don't know anything about the Army or what their problem is, but Marines have targets at 500 yards on their qualification. I don't think they use scopes.
Okay, your gun is old and historical, so are the gas chambers at Auschwitz, does that make them worthy of collecting?
After what I and countless others have expressed, this is what you come up with?:rolleyes: :sleeping:

[YeLLowBoaT]

I don't know anything about the Army or what their problem is, but Marines have targets at 500 yards on their qualification. I don't think they use scopes.
so does the army... that does not mean they can effectivly hit the targets. The range I go to has a 1600 M target... so by your logic since its there I should be able to hit it.
Point is people that are trained to make those shots have trouble making those shots. So I'll ask you again, whats the chances of a gang banger make that kind of shot? after all poverty cuases violent crime... atleast thats what you keep saying.

[Old Texan]

I already have a reputation around here, so it matters not. Owning a gun(s) is a personal choice. Many feel the need to own to be safe and secure. I don't. Owing a gun is not a duty it's a choice.
As I warned you earlier, this one's a reallllllll far left nutjob. :devil:
By the way I missed your reply on his questioning your boating and personal lifestyle.......:D
Keep in mind he's a Troll with a short attention span. In a cople days he'll off to harass the Giant Truck Racers or some other group of redblooded folks he feels compelled to "school". I think Kilrtoy swamped his canoe on a high speed pass a couple summers back and he comes here to harass us over it.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Okay, your gun is old and historical, so are the gas chambers at Auschwitz, does that make them worthy of collecting?
Yes, those need to preserved... patton said it best, when he was asked about his orders that every one that could go see the death camps needed too. "one day, some one, some where will say this never happend..."

[OKIE-JET]

Yes, those need to preserved... patton said it best, when he was asked about his orders that every one that could go see the death camps needed too. "one day, some one, some where will say this never happend..."
Iran ring a bell?

[delemorte]

Okay, your gun is old and historical, so are the gas chambers at Auschwitz, does that make them worthy of collecting?
As a matter of fact those gas chambers are a living testimate to human suffering and why we hold freedom so dear... Hitler Stalin and Pol Pot were not afraid of their populous and you see the outcome.
you are truly clueless.

[Kachina26]

I think Kilrtoy swamped his canoe on a high speed pass a couple summers back and he comes here to harass us over it.
He was in the reeds counting spotted frogs for a grant when Klr made his famous spin out!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

As I warned you earlier, this one's a reallllllll far left nutjob. :devil:
By the way I missed your reply on his questioning your boating and personal lifestyle.......:D
Keep in mind he's a Troll with a short attention span. In a cople days he'll off to harass the Giant Truck Racers or some other group of redblooded folks he feels compelled to "school". I think Kilrtoy swamped his canoe on a high speed pass a couple summers back and he comes here to harass us over it.
I read this dude's comments and didn't see much need in responding. He makes me look like Rush. :D

[STV_Keith]

For the record, if I have to be attacked, I'd prefer to be attacked with:
a Claw hammer, a skrewdriver, a Pry bar, a Razor knife, a Chisel or a Rope.
I don't see any of these being used successfully through a door or a car or from 400 yards away.
Might want to check out this thread: http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172027
"FLINT, Mich. -- A 21-year-old Flint-area man has received a prison sentence of at least 5 1/2 years for a mutilating hammer attack on an exotic dancer.
Austin M. Schmidt earlier pleaded no contest in Genesee County Circuit Court to a reduced charge of assault with intent to do great bodily harm.
He'd been charged with attempted murder.
Authorities said Schmidt and Abbie VanAmburg smoked marijuana and were sitting in his car last year when he told her to close her eyes so he could give her a Sweetest Day gift.
Police said the Mundy Township man then repeatedly struck the 23-year-old with a hammer.
VanAmburg testified she received 30 blows to her head and arm.
She said she needed 25 staples and 50 stitches, and had an ear reattached.
Jay Clothier, Schmidt's attorney, said the attack was completely out of character and Schmidt was deeply remorseful."

[delemorte]

yup. and had she had a fire arm this would have ended differently or if a concerned citizen with a firearm had walked by this would have ended differently... Poor girl. Dont get in the car with a stranger after you just took all of his single's.

[delemorte]

http://news14.com/content/top_stories/590345/teen-suspect-shot-during-robbery/Default.aspx
I read this kind of stuff every day man...

[delemorte]

KILLING OF COUPLE HAS ELICITED SCANT LEADS
IMMIGRATION-STATUS CONCERN MAY PLAY ROLE IN SCARCITY OF TIPS
SHAWN CETRONE, SCETRONE@CHARLOTTEOBSERVER.COM
The Union County Sheriff's Office says it has few leads on what led to a home invasion and killing of an Indian Trail couple over the weekend.
The Sheriff's Office is running notices in Spanish-language publications that circulate around the county asking for people with information to come forward. Officers have also put up fliers in area businesses frequented by Latinos, said Lt. Robert Rollins. Interviews with neighbors and others haven't turned up a suspect. The county's Crimestoppers phone line hasn't received many tips either, investigators said.
In cases like this, people with knowledge about what happened may be reluctant to come forward because they're worried about their immigration status, Rollins said.
Carlos Armando Arteaga Del-Angel, 32, and Maria Elvira Celedon, 28, were shot dead about 3:15 a.m. Saturday at their home in Suburban Estates Mobile Home Park off Secrest Shortcut, about a mile north of Monroe.
When deputies arrived, they found Celedon's body on the back porch. Del-Angel's body was in a hallway.
Detectives said they believe they know the motive for the killings, but wouldn't release it.
Witnesses told investigators they saw a small, light-colored vehicle speeding away from the home around the time of the shootings. A woman who lives nearby has said about 3 a.m. she heard a woman scream, followed by what sounded "like a machine gun."
Investigators are looking for at least two suspects, Rollins said.
The couple had two children - a girl, 4, and a boy, who turned 6 the day his parents were killed, Rollins said.
The children as well as a 37-year-old female relative were in the home at the time of the shootings. They weren't injured, deputies said.
The children are in the custody of the Department of Social Services. Relatives from Atlanta are working to adopt them, Rollins said.
Police encourage anyone with information to call Union County Crime Stoppers at 704-283-5600. People offering tips can remain anonymous and are eligible for a reward of up to $1,000 for information leading to an arrest.

[STV_Keith]

Did you see this one?
Girl, 7, Shot 6 Times While Protecting Mother
DETROIT -- A 7-year-old-girl is being hailed as an "angel from heaven" and a hero for jumping in front of an enraged gunman, who pumped six bullets into the child as she used her body as a shield to save her mother's life.
Alexis Goggins, a first-grader at Campbell Elementary School, is in stable condition at Children's Hospital in Detroit recovering from gunshot wounds to the eye, left temple, chin, cheek, chest and right arm.
"She is an angel from heaven," said Aisha Ford, a family friend for 15 years who also was caught up in the evening of terror.
The girl's mother, Selietha Parker, 30, was shot in the left side of her head and her bicep by a former boyfriend, who police said was trying to kill Parker. The gunman was disarmed by police and arrested at the scene of the shooting, a Detroit gas station. Police identified him as Calvin Tillie, 29, a four-time convicted felon whom Parker had dated for six months.
Parker, who was treated and released at Detroit Receiving Hospital, is now at her daughter's bedside. She declined to comment Tuesday.
The drama began to unfold just before midnight Saturday, when Parker called Ford and asked if she and Alexis could spend the night at Ford's home.
"She said she had no heat and they were very cold, and I said , sure I'll come and get you," Ford said.
Ford said she drove her burgundy 1998 Ford Expedition to Parker's home on Dwyer. She said as Parker and Alexis walked up to her vehicle she saw a man on the porch, who she assumed was a furnace repairman. She said Alexis, who walks with a limp, slipped momentarily on the icy sidewalk and as she helped the girl up, she saw the man and recognized him as Tillie. He was holding a gun.
Tillie ordered them into the vehicle, cursed at the women and angrily told Ford to drive him to Six Mile Road, she said.
"He looked like he was enraged and didn't care what he did. I knew if we went to Six Mile, he would kill us," Ford said. Instead, she told him she needed gas and drove to the Fast Stop Gas station in the 5000 block of East Seven Mile Road, a station that requires customers to pay the attendant inside.
"I figured if he got out to pump the gas, I was going to take off," Ford said.
Instead, Tillie gave her $10 and told her put in $5 worth of gas.
Ford said she dialed 911 on her cell phone as she walked into the station.
"The first operator clicked off and I dialed again and told that operator a guy with a gun was holding me hostage with a mother and baby and threatening to kill us. I told her the name of the gas station and then she said they didn't have a unit to send."
Ford said she paid for $5 of gas and slowly returned to the vehicle, stalling for time as she handed Tillie the change. She said she kept stopping and starting the pump, hoping the police would show up.
"I told him I needed more gas and took money out of my purse and went back into the station," she said. The attendant, Mohammad Alghazali, 30, said he noticed Ford was crying and she told him what was happening. He called 911 as he heard shots coming from the vehicle.
"It was very scary. She (Ford) was scared and screaming when the guy was shooting. I was scared, too. I was on the phone talking to the police when he started shooting," he said
Parker told police that Tillie said Ford was taking too long
She said she pleaded with him but he pointed the gun at her and shot her in the side of the head. She told police she was shot in the arm as she lunged at Tillie.
Before Tillie could fire again, Alexis jumped over the seat between her mother and the gunman and begged him not to shoot her mother.
The police report said Tillie "without hesitation" pumped six shots into the child.
As police arrived, they saw Parker, covered in blood, running from the truck, screaming, "He just shot my baby."
The officers said Tillie came out to the vehicle holding a blue steel 9 mm semi automatic and dropped the weapon when ordered to do so. Officers said they found Alexis huddled on the floor under the steering wheel, covered in blood, surrounded by spent cartridge casings, a spent bullet on the floor and teeth on the seat. There were bullet holes in the windshield and blood inside.
Alghazali said a police car on a street nearby arrived in less than a minute after his call.
Marvin Bodley, a Detroit Public Schools attendance agent, spent two days at Alexis' hospital bedside and said it's miraculous that she's alive.
"What a courageous, courageous little girl," he said. "You see more bandages than child," he said. "It's a horrific sight."
Bodley said Alexis receives special education services at school, in part because of a weak left eye, which is the result of a massive stroke she suffered as an infant.
Ford said doctors at the time had predicted that when Alexis got older she would have trouble with tasks such as writing, but she is now able to write her name.
"She is a good little girl who is very protective of her mother," said Tonya Colbert, Parker's cousin.
Tillie is being held in the Wayne County Jail facing kidnapping, assault with intent to murder, child abuse, felony firearms and habitual criminal charges.
A preliminary examination is scheduled for Dec. 13.

[Old Texan]

He was in the reeds counting spotted frogs for a grant when Klr made his famous spin out!
:D :D :D :D Peripheral damge.....

[Old Texan]

Did you see this one?
Girl, 7, Shot 6 Times While Protecting Mother
DETROIT -- A 7-year-old-girl is being hailed as an "angel from heaven" and a hero for jumping in front of an enraged gunman, who pumped six bullets into the child as she used her body as a shield to save her mother's life.
Alexis Goggins, a first-grader at Campbell Elementary School, is in stable condition at Children's Hospital in Detroit recovering from gunshot wounds to the eye, left temple, chin, cheek, chest and right arm.
"She is an angel from heaven," said Aisha Ford, a family friend for 15 years who also was caught up in the evening of terror.
The girl's mother, Selietha Parker, 30, was shot in the left side of her head and her bicep by a former boyfriend, who police said was trying to kill Parker. The gunman was disarmed by police and arrested at the scene of the shooting, a Detroit gas station. Police identified him as Calvin Tillie, 29, a four-time convicted felon whom Parker had dated for six months.
Parker, who was treated and released at Detroit Receiving Hospital, is now at her daughter's bedside. She declined to comment Tuesday.
The drama began to unfold just before midnight Saturday, when Parker called Ford and asked if she and Alexis could spend the night at Ford's home.
"She said she had no heat and they were very cold, and I said , sure I'll come and get you," Ford said.
Ford said she drove her burgundy 1998 Ford Expedition to Parker's home on Dwyer. She said as Parker and Alexis walked up to her vehicle she saw a man on the porch, who she assumed was a furnace repairman. She said Alexis, who walks with a limp, slipped momentarily on the icy sidewalk and as she helped the girl up, she saw the man and recognized him as Tillie. He was holding a gun.
Tillie ordered them into the vehicle, cursed at the women and angrily told Ford to drive him to Six Mile Road, she said.
"He looked like he was enraged and didn't care what he did. I knew if we went to Six Mile, he would kill us," Ford said. Instead, she told him she needed gas and drove to the Fast Stop Gas station in the 5000 block of East Seven Mile Road, a station that requires customers to pay the attendant inside.
"I figured if he got out to pump the gas, I was going to take off," Ford said.
Instead, Tillie gave her $10 and told her put in $5 worth of gas.
Ford said she dialed 911 on her cell phone as she walked into the station.
"The first operator clicked off and I dialed again and told that operator a guy with a gun was holding me hostage with a mother and baby and threatening to kill us. I told her the name of the gas station and then she said they didn't have a unit to send."
Ford said she paid for $5 of gas and slowly returned to the vehicle, stalling for time as she handed Tillie the change. She said she kept stopping and starting the pump, hoping the police would show up.
"I told him I needed more gas and took money out of my purse and went back into the station," she said. The attendant, Mohammad Alghazali, 30, said he noticed Ford was crying and she told him what was happening. He called 911 as he heard shots coming from the vehicle.
"It was very scary. She (Ford) was scared and screaming when the guy was shooting. I was scared, too. I was on the phone talking to the police when he started shooting," he said
Parker told police that Tillie said Ford was taking too long
She said she pleaded with him but he pointed the gun at her and shot her in the side of the head. She told police she was shot in the arm as she lunged at Tillie.
Before Tillie could fire again, Alexis jumped over the seat between her mother and the gunman and begged him not to shoot her mother.
The police report said Tillie "without hesitation" pumped six shots into the child.
As police arrived, they saw Parker, covered in blood, running from the truck, screaming, "He just shot my baby."
The officers said Tillie came out to the vehicle holding a blue steel 9 mm semi automatic and dropped the weapon when ordered to do so. Officers said they found Alexis huddled on the floor under the steering wheel, covered in blood, surrounded by spent cartridge casings, a spent bullet on the floor and teeth on the seat. There were bullet holes in the windshield and blood inside.
Alghazali said a police car on a street nearby arrived in less than a minute after his call.
Marvin Bodley, a Detroit Public Schools attendance agent, spent two days at Alexis' hospital bedside and said it's miraculous that she's alive.
"What a courageous, courageous little girl," he said. "You see more bandages than child," he said. "It's a horrific sight."
Bodley said Alexis receives special education services at school, in part because of a weak left eye, which is the result of a massive stroke she suffered as an infant.
Ford said doctors at the time had predicted that when Alexis got older she would have trouble with tasks such as writing, but she is now able to write her name.
"She is a good little girl who is very protective of her mother," said Tonya Colbert, Parker's cousin.
Tillie is being held in the Wayne County Jail facing kidnapping, assault with intent to murder, child abuse, felony firearms and habitual criminal charges.
A preliminary examination is scheduled for Dec. 13.
Bless her little heart. She is one courageous little girl.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I think teddy sums it up pretty well. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=T_QjEL0uUgo&feature=related)

[delemorte]

Bless her little heart. She is one courageous little girl.
I saw that article a minute ago... and that guy needs a large boyfreind for the next 20 years..

[delemorte]

I think teddy sums it up pretty well. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=T_QjEL0uUgo&feature=related)
Go Uncle Ted!!!!

[sanger rat]

STV_Keith Your making it sound like it's a war zone over here.:eek: I'm going to Flint tomorrow with another load. Homelessinaz want to ride shotgun?:rolleyes:

[AzMandella]

Wow Homeless you really have a great veiw of the poor. Is this something you derived from one of your studies or do you actually have first hand experience with the poor. As for myself I attended high school in public school and mine happened to be one that was predominately hispanic so there were alot of poor children there. But the funny thing is you could tell which ones were going to make it in life and which were not. Those that studied and those who goofed off and failed classes or just plain dropped out or were expelled. These are the ones who are working at the taco stands as you put it. Now are we supposed to feel sorry for these people making $6.00 hr or just make all these menial jobs pay $60,000 a year. There will always be jobs that will never be major income or family supporting jobs. Those that put themseves in the position of being unemployable can only blame themselves. As for the homeless. You seem to make them out to be such a hard working group. I call B.S.. I have first hand dealings with them almost every week. My family buisiness is located in the industrial section of Tucson and it is a major area for the homeless. The park that they sleep in is 1 block away from us. Now as a hard working citizen, I am at work almost every weekend even though we are not open. You would not believe how many of them will walk into the shop to ask for money. My father and I will say "No I wont give you any money but if you would like I can let you do some work around here sweeping and cleaning up and I'll pay you $8.00 hr and can keep you busy all day." And 9 out of 10 will respond," Oh no I'm not looking for a job.", and walk away. A few will be happy for the chance and will come back weekend after weekend. We had one guy who was sleeping on our property and we gave him a full time job. Once he made enough money he got a small apartment and seemed to be on his way to becoming a contribution to society. After a few months he came to me and said that he was quiting and going back to the streets because it was an easier life. Go figure. Now I know there are people out there that are in dire straights due to situations beyond their control and I have no problem with tax funded programs to help them get back on their feet. But I'll be damned if I am going to help those that are not willing to help themslves. And unfortunately that seems to be a big majority of them. Remember this country was founded on the premise of democracy and free enterprise. And people from all walks of life can make of themselves whatever they choose. I find it funny that foriginers such as Korean and sych can come to this country with their families and no education. But work hard and most of them make something for themselves. But our own people cannot. And I believe that mostly has to do with pure laziness and the belief that they think the government owes them something. They are not willing to start at the bottom and work their way up.

[sanger rat]

Wow Homeless you really have a great veiw of the poor. Is this something you derived from one of your studies or do you actually have first hand experience with the poor. As for myself I attended high school in public school and mine happened to be one that was predominately hispanic so there were alot of poor children there. But the funny thing is you could tell which ones were going to make it in life and which were not. Those that studied and those who goofed off and failed classes or just plain dropped out or were expelled. These are the ones who are working at the taco stands as you put it. Now are we supposed to feel sorry for these people making $6.00 hr or just make all these menial jobs pay $60,000 a year. There will always be jobs that will never be major income or family supporting jobs. Those that put themseves in the position of being unemployable can only blame themselves. As for the homeless. You seem to make them out to be such a hard working group. I call B.S.. I have first hand dealings with them almost every week. My family buisiness is located in the industrial section of Tucson and it is a major area for the homeless. The park that they sleep in is 1 block away from us. Now as a hard working citizen, I am at work almost every weekend even though we are not open. You would not believe how many of them will walk into the shop to ask for money. My father and I will say "No I wont give you any money but if you would like I can let you do some work around here sweeping and cleaning up and I'll pay you $8.00 hr and can keep you busy all day." And 9 out of 10 will respond," Oh no I'm not looking for a job.", and walk away. A few will be happy for the chance and will come back weekend after weekend. We had one guy who was sleeping on our property and we gave him a full time job. Once he made enough money he got a small apartment and seemed to be on his way to becoming a contribution to society. After a few months he came to me and said that he was quiting and going back to the streets because it was an easier life. Go figure. Now I know there are people out there that are in dire straights due to situations beyond their control and I have no problem with tax funded programs to help them get back on their feet. But I'll be damned if I am going to help those that are not willing to help themslves. And unfortunately that seems to be a big majority of them. Remember this country was founded on the premise of democracy and free enterprise. And people from all walks of life can make of themselves whatever they choose. I find it funny that foriginers such as Korean and sych can come to this country with their families and no education. But work hard and most of them make something for themselves. But our own people cannot. And I believe that mostly has to do with pure laziness and the belief that they think the government owes them something. They are not willing to start at the bottom and work their way up.
Good post!:)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Wow Homeless you really have a great veiw of the poor. Is this something you derived from one of your studies or do you actually have first hand experience with the poor. As for myself I attended high school in public school and mine happened to be one that was predominately hispanic so there were alot of poor children there. But the funny thing is you could tell which ones were going to make it in life and which were not. Those that studied and those who goofed off and failed classes or just plain dropped out or were expelled. These are the ones who are working at the taco stands as you put it. Now are we supposed to feel sorry for these people making $6.00 hr or just make all these menial jobs pay $60,000 a year. There will always be jobs that will never be major income or family supporting jobs. Those that put themseves in the position of being unemployable can only blame themselves. As for the homeless. You seem to make them out to be such a hard working group. I call B.S.. I have first hand dealings with them almost every week. My family buisiness is located in the industrial section of Tucson and it is a major area for the homeless. The park that they sleep in is 1 block away from us. Now as a hard working citizen, I am at work almost every weekend even though we are not open. You would not believe how many of them will walk into the shop to ask for money. My father and I will say "No I wont give you any money but if you would like I can let you do some work around here sweeping and cleaning up and I'll pay you $8.00 hr and can keep you busy all day." And 9 out of 10 will respond," Oh no I'm not looking for a job.", and walk away. A few will be happy for the chance and will come back weekend after weekend. We had one guy who was sleeping on our property and we gave him a full time job. Once he made enough money he got a small apartment and seemed to be on his way to becoming a contribution to society. After a few months he came to me and said that he was quiting and going back to the streets because it was an easier life. Go figure. Now I know there are people out there that are in dire straights due to situations beyond their control and I have no problem with tax funded programs to help them get back on their feet. But I'll be damned if I am going to help those that are not willing to help themslves. And unfortunately that seems to be a big majority of them. Remember this country was founded on the premise of democracy and free enterprise. And people from all walks of life can make of themselves whatever they choose. I find it funny that foriginers such as Korean and sych can come to this country with their families and no education. But work hard and most of them make something for themselves. But our own people cannot. And I believe that mostly has to do with pure laziness and the belief that they think the government owes them something. They are not willing to start at the bottom and work their way up.
Well said AZM

[AzMandella]

Well Homeless. I see the police handled the Ohmaha shooting just fine. By the time they got there it was all over. I'm glad to see you have so much faith in the police being there for you. Obviosly this is a perfect example of the fact that the police cannot be everywhere all the time. Unfortunately there wasn't someone there to drop the bastard before he killed as many as he did.I know that if I were there and had a good vantage point I wouldn't have hesitate to try and save some of my fellow citizens. And guess what poverty had nothing to do with it.

[homelessinaz]

But one question. How do you call your self a libertarian when you support the government’s right to take away the rights given to you by the constitution?
There is not one word in the Constitution about private ownership of firearms. There is only the restriction of the federal government's power to infringe upon people's right to keep and bear arms. Ownership is not mentioned, so this provision could just mean that we're allowed to keep and bear the government's arms as members of that all important WELL REGULATED MILITIA.
Stop inventing parts of the COnstitution that aren't there. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.

[homelessinaz]

Iran ring a bell?
I don't know if you heard yet, but US intelligence now says that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Get over it.
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

I don't know if you heard yet, but US intelligence now says that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Get over it.
Homeless
hey smart guy, that was into reguards that some people don't think the holocost happend.

[homelessinaz]

Might want to check out this thread: http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172027
"FLINT, Mich. -- A 21-year-old Flint-area man has received a prison sentence of at least 5 1/2 years for a mutilating hammer attack on an exotic dancer.
Austin M. Schmidt earlier pleaded no contest in Genesee County Circuit Court to a reduced charge of assault with intent to do great bodily harm.
He'd been charged with attempted murder.
Authorities said Schmidt and Abbie VanAmburg smoked marijuana and were sitting in his car last year when he told her to close her eyes so he could give her a Sweetest Day gift.
Police said the Mundy Township man then repeatedly struck the 23-year-old with a hammer.
VanAmburg testified she received 30 blows to her head and arm.
She said she needed 25 staples and 50 stitches, and had an ear reattached.
Jay Clothier, Schmidt's attorney, said the attack was completely out of character and Schmidt was deeply remorseful."
Does anyone have any doubt that if this disturbed man had gotten access to a gun and shot her 30 times that she would be dead? Of course not. In this case, the unavailability of a gun saved this woman's life.
Why do you alternately argue with me and then make my own case for me? Are we in agreement or are we in disagreement? If we're in agreement, I am happy to have an ideological ally at last. If we are in disagreement, you are not supporting your opinion by continuing to validate MY opinion by providing anecdotal evidence supporting my assertion that fewer guns=less crime.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

I think this was my favorite line from the story:
"Police say most robbers don't want to hurt anyone, they just want the loot, but a victim's actions can sometimes foil their plan.
"Your actions can actually escalate the situation to more than what the suspect has intended," Peterson said.
Of course, you all would say the police officer is wrong in this case, but what does he know, he's only a law enforcement professional, right? If this cop were in this forum, you'd all argue with him and demand he provide proof of his claims by pasting a link proving that,"...most robbers don't want to hurt anyone, they just want the loot, but a victim's actions can sometimes foil their plan..."
And again, I ask, is keeping a few insured dollars in the cash register REALLY worth maiming or killing another human being? Was it worth it in this case, or in the case of Joe Horn in Pasadena, TX? Is human life THAT cheap now that we'd just as soon snuff it out over a few bucks?
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

I think teddy sums it up pretty well. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=T_QjEL0uUgo&feature=related)
Ted Nugent is your hero, and I get ragged on for calling your opinions redneck? Please, does this mean that you also are taking cues from Chuck Norris now and supporting Huckabee?
What does "The Hulkster" think about the 2nd amendment?
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

Ted Nugent is your hero, and I get ragged on for calling your opinions redneck? Please, does this mean that you also are taking cues from Chuck Norris now and supporting Huckabee?
What does "The Hulkster" think about the 2nd amendment?
Homeless
Never said he was my hero, Infact I disagree with alot of the things he says and does, but in that case I think he is right on... the last line pretty much says it all "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"

[STV_Keith]

Homeless, I noticed that you avoided pretty much everything that I spent the time to write to you yesterday, so I will simply bow out. It's becoming apparent to me that you just want to stir the pot. This is obviously why you won't show yourself, and you will likely NEVER show up at any boating event - you are a coward to your own beliefs. Your opinion will never change - you are aware of that right? And as such, you must be aware that our opinions will not change either.
Thank you, and good day.

[homelessinaz]

..Remember this country was founded on the premise of democracy and free enterprise. And people from all walks of life can make of themselves whatever they choose.
Oh please, like you were THERE when this country was founded. Yeah, all the founding fathers were concerned about was making a land where you could get a small business loan and open up a kiosk in the mall.
If you take a look outside the mainstream propaganda you call US History, you might learn that the "Revolutionary War" wasn't even a widely supported idea until it gained an air of inevidibility among the colonials. Simply put, "America" was nothing more than a great "get rich quick" scheme hatched by wealthy colonial elites. Most of these men were business owners and landowners, planters and businessmen who were dissatisfied with the oppressive taxes and unfair trade laws imposed by the crown. They got support for their unpopular revolutionary ideas by promising lucre to those who would support the revolt. Massive tracts of land held by colonials who supported the crown were divided up and distributed mainly to other colonial elites, and nominally to the common men who fought.
We can talk all day about opinion topics like the right and wrong of weapon ownership, but if you are going to start spouting out platitudes like, "this country was founded on the premise of democracy and free enterprise" I am going to call you on it.

[homelessinaz]

Homeless, I noticed that you avoided pretty much everything that I spent the time to write to you yesterday, so I will simply bow out. It's becoming apparent to me that you just want to stir the pot. This is obviously why you won't show yourself, and you will likely NEVER show up at any boating event - you are a coward to your own beliefs. Your opinion will never change - you are aware of that right? And as such, you must be aware that our opinions will not change either.
Thank you, and good day.
If I showed up at a "boating event" I'd have to worry about being literally beaten over the head. If you showed up at a thinking event, you'd have to worry about being beaten over the head with honest to goodness thoughts.

[homelessinaz]

hey smart guy, that was into reguards that some people don't think the holocost happend.
Ahmadinejad never said the holocaust didn't happen, in stark contrast, he had the moral courage to suggest that MAYBE we ought to confirm the 60 year old event with NEW technology.
It's arguable that things you could have faked 60 years ago (given the limited technology and the degree to which jews controlled the media) are no longer possible to fake. It's also a lot easier to prove or disprove things like the holocaust with modern forensic methods. That's all he was saying.
What's so wrong with updating the evidence?
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Do I really need to mention this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071206/ap_on_re_us/mall_shooting
Yeah, I know, if only you'd have been there with your trusty Red Rider with the compass in the stock and this thing which tells time...
Next time, Ralphie.
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

Do I really need to mention this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071206/ap_on_re_us/mall_shooting
Yeah, I know, if only you'd have been there with your trusty Red Rider with the compass in the stock and this thing which tells time...
Next time, Ralphie.
Homeless
So I take it you got all the facts in the case?

[YeLLowBoaT]

Ahmadinejad never said the holocaust didn't happen, in stark contrast, he had the moral courage to suggest that MAYBE we ought to confirm the 60 year old event with NEW technology.
It's arguable that things you could have faked 60 years ago (given the limited technology and the degree to which jews controlled the media) are no longer possible to fake. It's also a lot easier to prove or disprove things like the holocaust with modern forensic methods. That's all he was saying.
What's so wrong with updating the evidence?
Homeless
So my great uncle ( god rest his soul) who saw 1st hand the death camps and helped supply them with things like food and blankets( he was in Quater masters) was lieing when he told us about what he saw?
And my good family freind that had thier father bribe a officer to get him and his sister off the death train...has been lieing to my family for decades? BTW they never saw thier parents again.

[QuickJet]

Does anyone have any doubt that if this disturbed man had gotten access to a gun and shot her 30 times that she would be dead? Of course not. In this case, the unavailability of a gun saved this woman's life.
Why do you alternately argue with me and then make my own case for me? Are we in agreement or are we in disagreement? If we're in agreement, I am happy to have an ideological ally at last. If we are in disagreement, you are not supporting your opinion by continuing to validate MY opinion by providing anecdotal evidence supporting my assertion that fewer guns=less crime.
Homeless
How do you know he didn't have access to a firearm? Maybe he wanted the thrill of killing with a hammer. You don't know.
Taking guns away only takes the guns away from the law abidding since criminals arent supposed to have them anyways.......yet they still do for some reason.
Your theory is as week as you are. You say fewer guns=less crime. Since when is beating the shit out of someone with a hammer not a crime?
And Iran is still enriching Uranium and can have Nuclear weapons by 2012. (Well that's the latest FACT anyways.)
And yes, I wouldn't hesitate to kill ANYONE breaking into my house. My things are more important to me than some low life theif who is trying to steal them.
Hey, maybe you don't have a life worth protecting, but don't try to handicap those who do.

[homelessinaz]

So my great uncle ( god rest his soul) who saw 1st hand the death camps and helped supply them with things like food and blankets( he was in Quater masters) was lieing when he told us about what he saw?
And my good family freind that had thier father bribe a officer to get him and his sister off the death train...has been lieing to my family for decades? BTW they never saw thier parents again.
No offense, YB, but you're asking me to take your word about the holocaust because a guy who posts on a forum I post at had a good family friend who had a dad who bribed a guy to let him see a death train. Nothing against those people, but I think for something as significant as this, a little empircal evidence really is in order.
Homeless

[YeLLowBoaT]

No offense, YB, but you're asking me to take your word about the holocaust because a guy who posts on a forum I post at had a good family friend who had a dad who bribed a guy to let him see a death train. Nothing against those people, but I think for something as significant as this, a little empircal evidence really is in order.
Homeless
You know what, I'm done. Any one that can say the holocaust or the rape of nankind did not happen is not worth talking to.

[QuickJet]

No offense, YB, but you're asking me to take your word about the holocaust because a guy who posts on a forum I post at had a good family friend who had a dad who bribed a guy to let him see a death train. Nothing against those people, but I think for something as significant as this, a little empircal evidence really is in order.
Homeless
So you are telling the class that you have never heard of the Holocaust until Yellowboat told you about it??
You are a dueche bag...true story

[homelessinaz]

Homeless, I noticed that you avoided pretty much everything that I spent the time to write to you yesterday, so I will simply bow out. It's becoming apparent to me that you just want to stir the pot. This is obviously why you won't show yourself, and you will likely NEVER show up at any boating event - you are a coward to your own beliefs. Your opinion will never change - you are aware of that right? And as such, you must be aware that our opinions will not change either.
Thank you, and good day.
You know what? You're right, I did ignore most of what you said, and I apologize. I guess that I was more anxious to reply to all the belligerent posts. You're posts were more rational and logical and I guess that's why I skipped over them and answered the more heated posts. In other words, the squeaky wheel got all my grease.
I am going to go right this right now.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

And as for the haves and have nots, I'm a have because I choose to work for a living. I don't collect unemployment (even though I've currently been unemployed for 6 weeks), and probably never will, just like I don't ask the Government to "help me out" to pay my mortgage. Everyone that is physically able should have a job...keeps people out of trouble, but the problem is that most of these "have nots" as you say, don't have zip for a work ethic.
I see no shame in collecting unemployment benefits, because most of the unemployment in this nation is brought about because the labor movement has been sold out. In short, people pay their taxes to a government that makes it too hard to compete, so why SHOULDN'T they accept a payment when the economy that the government has funded fails to provide a fair return for their efforts?
Not that we could expect a straight answer, but how much of this do you do?
The straight answer is this...I do more work per week on a volunteer basis than I do on a paid basis. I truly believe that my purpose in this world is to better the condition of humanity. Making money is a side deal, something I do to stay alive. Because I want to maintain my annonymity I am not going to volunteer more than that. I hope you respect that.
Who said anything about killing people? At least in my mind, protecting myself only requires that I STOP the criminal from doing whatever it is to me. When you say KILL, that's putting the tone of premeditation to the action, or that the only outcome of the altercation will result in death. And to your other question, I commented on it, read above.
I believe that that last passage was something you learned in a "use of force" seminar, correct? This is what you say to the liberal civil rights attorney when he accuses you of wanton violence. "Shoot to stop, not to kill". I know all about that.
I'd give the upper hand to an untrained person WITH a weapon versus an untrained person WITHOUT a weapon in any confrontation.
I still maintain that a more peaceful and positive outcome can come from two people talking it out rather than shooting it out.
OK, so how is that to happen? Am I supposed to work a bunch of extra hours, out of the goodness of my heart and give the money to someone else? Do you? What non-profit organization do you work for? Can I assume that you live in section 8 housing, and ride a bike to work because you have given all your money to the underprivileged in your area?
In order:
You don't have to give MONEY to contribute, you can give of your time and talents.
Yes, I volunteer.
I am NOT divulging any details about my personal life on an open website.
I live with relatives in a rural setting.
I do not own a car; I carpool and I use public transportation when I can. Other time when I can't use shared resources I share a vehicle with relatives.
So you think the criminals feel bad that they don't have a 55" TV, so they steal one and take it home to use? HELL NO - they steal it, sell it and buy other crap that does them no good (drugs, hookers, etc) - they don't use the money to better themselves.
Rather than ask you for some link proving your hypothesis, I am just going to ask you to ask yourself how much you REALLY know about the motivations and choices of people who commit crimes, and how much of your opinions are based on stereotypes and things you hear on talk radio.
So are you saying that had they stolen from someone in another income bracket that it would have be more or less of a crime? Do you see this as crime or do you see it as these two guys were trying to better themselves (albeit at someone else's expense)?
I admit I subscribe to a philosophy based on social justice. The society we live in was built on the backs on slaves and indentured servants for the convenience and comfort of a class of elites.
It bothers me less to see the descendants of the slaves and the servants "steal" from the descendants of the ruling class than it does to see them perpetuate a cycle of violence against one another.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

You know what, I'm done. Any one that can say the holocaust or the rape of nankind did not happen is not worth talking to.
I'M NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, I'M SAYING, LET'S PROVE IT TO EVERYONE'S SATISFACTION!!! At any rate, I am not even the one who is saying this, I am just giving my opinion about what Ahmadinejad was saying.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I see no shame in collecting unemployment benefits, because most of the unemployment in this nation is brought about because the labor movement has been sold out. In short, people pay their taxes to a government that makes it too hard to compete, so why SHOULDN'T they accept a payment when the economy that the government has funded fails to provide a fair return for their efforts?
The straight answer is this...I do more work per week on a volunteer basis than I do on a paid basis. I truly believe that my purpose in this world is to better the condition of humanity. Making money is a side deal, something I do to stay alive. Because I want to maintain my annonymity I am not going to volunteer more than that. I hope you respect that.
I believe that that last passage was something you learned in a "use of force" seminar, correct? This is what you say to the liberal civil rights attorney when he accuses you of wanton violence. "Shoot to stop, not to kill". I know all about that.
I still maintain that a more peaceful and positive outcome can come from two people talking it out rather than shooting it out.
In order:
You don't have to give MONEY to contribute, you can give of your time and talents.
Yes, I volunteer.
I am NOT divulging any details about my personal life on an open website.
I live with relatives in a rural setting.
I do not own a car; I carpool and I use public transportation when I can. Other time when I can't use shared resources I share a vehicle with relatives.
Rather than ask you for some link proving your hypothesis, I am just going to ask you to ask yourself how much you REALLY know about the motivations and choices of people who commit crimes, and how much of your opinions are based on stereotypes and things you hear on talk radio.
I admit I subscribe to a philosophy based on social justice. The society we live in was built on the backs on slaves and indentured servants for the convenience and comfort of a class of elites.
It bothers me less to see the descendants of the slaves and the servants "steal" from the descendants of the ruling class than it does to see them perpetuate a cycle of violence against one another.
Homeless
Seems to me that the cronic has gotten the best of you.
I am NOT divulging any details about my personal life on an open website
What are you afraid of?

[delemorte]

So you dont beleive in the Holocaust???? OMFG you are truly an idiot.
buy a plane ticket go fly over there go see the death camps for your self.
Go talk to a survivor as there are still a few left. not for long i might add..
The Nazis were one of the best record keepers of history and by their own account did this horrible thing...
there is no talking to this antisemitic head case so i too will bow out..
and yes if the stripper was armed she could have protected her self. so could those people in that mall yesterday.
have a good day Hot Boaters.
Oh yeah one more thing.. damn i cant drop this...
So you mooch off of relatives and leech their bandwith to troll the internet and dont get paid so you dont really work a real job and dont contribute to society... sounds like you are a bum to me bro... go get a job stop mooching off of your releatives and become a usefull part of society.

[OKIE-JET]

Homeless, I noticed that you avoided pretty much everything that I spent the time to write to you yesterday, so I will simply bow out. It's becoming apparent to me that you just want to stir the pot. This is obviously why you won't show yourself, and you will likely NEVER show up at any boating event - you are a coward to your own beliefs. Your opinion will never change - you are aware of that right? And as such, you must be aware that our opinions will not change either.
Thank you, and good day.
Well, I couldnt have written this any better. I just skipped the last few post completely after the stupidity of his holocaust response, truly ignorant about being an American. This wet-rag isnt even worth discussing any longer.
Good day to you all, except nutless, I thank you for enduring my rants and views in this thread. We will debate another day.

[QuickJet]

I see no shame in collecting unemployment benefits, because most of the unemployment in this nation is brought about because the labor movement has been sold out. In short, people pay their taxes to a government that makes it too hard to compete, so why SHOULDN'T they accept a payment when the economy that the government has funded fails to provide a fair return for their efforts?
homeless
Why should the government have to provide ANYTHING????
I am convinced that this no namer is not for real. There is no way that anyone could be this far gone.
You were right Ultra.....He does make you look like Rush:D

[STV_Keith]

If I showed up at a "boating event" I'd have to worry about being literally beaten over the head. If you showed up at a thinking event, you'd have to worry about being beaten over the head with honest to goodness thoughts.
I can lay in bed and get sleep at night despite the fact that I haven't weaponized my home because I have a shred of faith in the basic goodness of my fellow man. I don't believe most people (or even a lot of people) are out to do me harm.
Last thought from me - so which of your quotes above is correct? It's obvious that you've never been to a boating event - one where people with differing views can come together, continue to talk about them, and have a beer or Pepsi. You ASSUME because our morals and value sets differ from yours, that we are automatically violent. You sir, are wrong.
On another note though, boating is not a poor mans hobby. They are expensive to buy and maintain, as well as to operate. They mostly require larger and average vehicles to get them to the body of water. But here you come to a website for boating enthusiasts, yet you own no boat, no car, no home...how could you expect to know or be able to grasp anything that we think since your lifestyle is clearly not capable of understanding the world in which WE live. I'm sure you're safe in your rural home...your nearest neighbor is probably 1/2 mile or more away. I would even go so far to say that a criminal will likely not go to your home (where you live with your relatives) when they have much more target rich environments closer to home.
Live your life the way you want to...we will do the same.
Guys, I respectfully offer that if we just stop feeding this guy, he will just go away.
I am done.
I'll see some of you in Havasu this weekend for the light parade. :)

[centerhill condor]

I'M NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, I'M SAYING, LET'S PROVE IT TO EVERYONE'S SATISFACTION!!! At any rate, I am not even the one who is saying this, I am just giving my opinion about what Ahmadinejad was saying.
what would be acceptable as proof? just curious.
The Persian president's position is that the issue deserves further study and why the HELL did the Jews have to establish a homeland in the middle east...he says that the europeans should be required to give up land for a Jewish state to "reperate" for the holocaust.
CC

[AzMandella]

Oh please, like you were THERE when this country was founded. Yeah, all the founding fathers were concerned about was making a land where you could get a small business loan and open up a kiosk in the mall.
If you take a look outside the mainstream propaganda you call US History, you might learn that the "Revolutionary War" wasn't even a widely supported idea until it gained an air of inevidibility among the colonials. Simply put, "America" was nothing more than a great "get rich quick" scheme hatched by wealthy colonial elites. Most of these men were business owners and landowners, planters and businessmen who were dissatisfied with the oppressive taxes and unfair trade laws imposed by the crown. They got support for their unpopular revolutionary ideas by promising lucre to those who would support the revolt. Massive tracts of land held by colonials who supported the crown were divided up and distributed mainly to other colonial elites, and nominally to the common men who fought.
We can talk all day about opinion topics like the right and wrong of weapon ownership, but if you are going to start spouting out platitudes like, "this country was founded on the premise of democracy and free enterprise" I am going to call you on it.
Wow you do live in your own little world. College education and you still don't make any sense. And yes my family,money,house and posesions do mean more to me than some lowlife scumbag.
But you were there and you do know huh? Now US history is propoganda ? Wow
I like how you completely ignored my calling you out about the socalled hard working poor. I guess that's because you also know that the majority of poor are that way by their own choices in life. If they want a helping hand they can begin by looking at the ends of their arms. I got an idea. why don't you go beg the government for some grant money for a study as to why hard working tax payers should give up our worldly posesions and everything we have worked for and give it all to those who don't even care about themselves. Or beter yet maybe you can find some correlation to why children of poor who dont have 52" plasma screens become disalusioned with life and give up. You know,find some new excuses for people so they don't have to eccept responsibilit for themseves. Either way it looks like most people here do not agree with anything you have to say. Hell even Ultra (who seems to be pretty good guy) who usually doesn't agree with us thinks you are a litle out there. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as far as left goes you have fallen off.

[AzMandella]

I see no shame in collecting unemployment benefits, because most of the unemployment in this nation is brought about because the labor movement has been sold out. In short, people pay their taxes to a government that makes it too hard to compete, so why SHOULDN'T they accept a payment when the economy that the government has funded fails to provide a fair return for their efforts.
Homeless
Labormovement sold out? Yeah right. And I guess it has nothing to do with lift minded unions that extort companys into paying some idiot who holds the bumper up on the assembly line like a CPA or a lawyer. Driving the price of that company's product up so high it can't compete with foreign competitors. Yeah iguess your right. the government sold GE, Ford, and numerous other companies to foreign countries so the could produce a product that people could afford. By your way of thinking they would have stayed here so the poor really could not afford anything. Wow you need to take the rose colered glasses off.

[AzMandella]

Seems to me that the cronic has gotten the best of you.
What are you afraid of?
No shiat Ultra. Seems to me from that post we have a looser who has two degrees but chooses to leach off his family rather than work to support himself. Now I know why he relates to the poor so well. He has the same lazy ass work ethics as they do. Just do enough to get by. And he would rather see the decendants of slaves ( which just about all of us are at some point in history) commit crimes against hard working people rather than take it out on each other.

[Old Texan]

What are you afraid of?
He's gay and in denial. He only comes here between "boyfriends with jobs".
He's a Troll......

[homelessinaz]

He's a Troll......
I don't even know what a troll is. You know what, this whole thing has gone WAY off topic and has would up being about me instead of about the issue of gun control. You guys are real great at having reasonable debates, just as long as everyone agrees.
I can just see you getting together at your boating events to discuss topics over a nice Pepsi.
"...so, here we are...everyone has their Pepsi...I can assume we've all watched Hannity and Colmes this week",
"...YES..."
"...and I assume we've all listened to Rush all week..."
"...YES..."
"...lastly, I assume we all agree with Sean and Rush, and with one another..."
"...YES..."
And then Ultra26 pipes up,"...but you know, Colmes did make a few good points",
"ULTRA 26 you are dismissed. Meeting adjourned."
Seriously, ULTRA is the only one who seems to grasp the concept of a discussion. It's too bad that he is so subject to peer pressure and felt it was necessary to bust on me to fit in. Maybe you should go get your guitar back, ULTRA, and we could jam sometime.
At any rate, this has become all about me, and personally I am tired of talking about me, so I guess this ends here. I'll go back to just reading your posts until I find something else worthy of comment. I am kinda looking forward to the elections so that I can witness the collective cyber groaning that will no doubt dominate this forum on the morning after election day.
I hope the US Supreme court affirms DC's right to outlaw weapons possession, and I hope lots of states follow their lead. I hope this happens because I am SO TIRED of watching the news and hearing a daily dead/wounded tally from our nation's school and mall shooting sprees.
Homeless

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I don't even know what a troll is. You know what, this whole thing has gone WAY off topic and has would up being about me instead of about the issue of gun control. You guys are real great at having reasonable debates, just as long as everyone agrees.
I can just see you getting together at your boating events to discuss topics over a nice Pepsi.
"...so, here we are...everyone has their Pepsi...I can assume we've all watched Hannity and Colmes this week",
"...YES..."
"...and I assume we've all listened to Rush all week..."
"...YES..."
"...lastly, I assume we all agree with Sean and Rush, and with one another..."
"...YES..."
And then Ultra26 pipes up,"...but you know, Colmes did make a few good points",
"ULTRA 26 you are dismissed. Meeting adjourned."
Seriously, ULTRA is the only one who seems to grasp the concept of a discussion. It's too bad that he is so subject to peer pressure and felt it was necessary to bust on me to fit in. Maybe you should go get your guitar back, ULTRA, and we could jam sometime.
At any rate, this has become all about me, and personally I am tired of talking about me, so I guess this ends here. I'll go back to just reading your posts until I find something else worthy of comment. I am kinda looking forward to the elections so that I can witness the collective cyber groaning that will no doubt dominate this forum on the morning after election day.
I hope the US Supreme court affirms DC's right to outlaw weapons possession, and I hope lots of states follow their lead. I hope this happens because I am SO TIRED of watching the news and hearing a daily dead/wounded tally from our nation's school and mall shooting sprees.
Homeless
Not trying to bust your balls I was serious. Tell me that you're not a heavy smoker of bud. And again, what are you afraid of? Nobody is going to come after you or harm you any more than they are going to come after me.
BTW, I'm not for more gun control or less gun control. The issue seems balanced as it is.

[delemorte]

I and personally I am tired of talking about me, so I guess this ends here.
totally agree.. thank god..

[eliminatedsprinter]

I have no problem with people wanting to exercise their second amendment right to bear arms as members of a well regulated militia...what's your point? Go ahead, go join a well regulated militia.
Like all other areas of the Constitution, the second amendment is subject to revision. People have been trying for YEARS (and show no signs of letting up) to modify a woman's right to privacy based on their religious beliefs, and the entire Republican party strategy for a couple decades has been based on promising their base that they'll repeal that right, so what makes you think that modifying or eliminating the second amendment is or should be off the table?
Folks REALLY need to stop hiding behind the Constitution, because the mere fact that it was written on some paper 220ish years ago by some dead white slave owners doesn't make it the inspired word of the almighty. If your entire argument is that "...hey, it's in the Constitution" then your argument is pretty weak.
Homeless
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
May I respectfully ask if you even know why we have a constitution??

[AzMandella]

I don't even know what a troll is. You know what, this whole thing has gone WAY off topic and has would up being about me instead of about the issue of gun control. You guys are real great at having reasonable debates, just as long as everyone agrees.
I can just see you getting together at your boating events to discuss topics over a nice Pepsi.
"...so, here we are...everyone has their Pepsi...I can assume we've all watched Hannity and Colmes this week",
"...YES..."
"...and I assume we've all listened to Rush all week..."
"...YES..."
"...lastly, I assume we all agree with Sean and Rush, and with one another..."
"...YES..."
And then Ultra26 pipes up,"...but you know, Colmes did make a few good points",
"ULTRA 26 you are dismissed. Meeting adjourned."
Seriously, ULTRA is the only one who seems to grasp the concept of a discussion. It's too bad that he is so subject to peer pressure and felt it was necessary to bust on me to fit in. Maybe you should go get your guitar back, ULTRA, and we could jam sometime.
At any rate, this has become all about me, and personally I am tired of talking about me, so I guess this ends here. I'll go back to just reading your posts until I find something else worthy of comment. I am kinda looking forward to the elections so that I can witness the collective cyber groaning that will no doubt dominate this forum on the morning after election day.
I hope the US Supreme court affirms DC's right to outlaw weapons possession, and I hope lots of states follow their lead. I hope this happens because I am SO TIRED of watching the news and hearing a daily dead/wounded tally from our nation's school and mall shooting sprees.
Homeless
No I think it is that Ultra can represent the left without coming off as a complete whacko. I like how you think we just dismiss Ultra. I for one think he is a standup guy who has a differsnt view than the rest of the conservatives here. It's you who cannot debate because your view is so far out in left field that you seem to exude a socialist mentality. But you really need to start hanging out with Blown 472 you two would be like two peas in a pod. especially about the Hollocaust. You can both pretend it never happened together.

[TonkaDriver]

No I think it is that Ultra can represent the left without coming off as a complete whacko. I like how you think we just dismiss Ultra. I for one think he is a standup guy who has a differsnt view than the rest of the conservatives here. It's you who cannot debate because your view is so far out in left field that you seem to exude a socialist mentality. But you really need to start hanging out with Blown 472 you two would be like two peas in a pod. especially about the Hollocaust. You can both pretend it never happened together.
You are close AZ,
CluelessinAZ is an admitted communist that calls himself a libertarian.

[eliminatedsprinter]

You are close AZ,
CluelessinAZ is an admitted communist that calls himself a libertarian.
That's kind of like a Nazi calling himself a Jew isn't it???:)

[SangerDoug1]

I agree with homeless in AZ. If we outlaw guns then they will go away, just like illegal drugs did. You don't see people on drugs anymore do you? They are non existent in America. If banning guns works as good as banning drugs did, I think Homeless is on the right track.

[SangerDoug1]

http://www.***boat.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif http://www.***boat.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif http://www.***boat.com/ubb/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.***boat.com/ubb/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.***boat.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[Schiada76]

I don't even know what a troll is. You know what, this whole thing has gone WAY off topic and has would up being about me instead of about the issue of gun control. You guys are real great at having reasonable debates, just as long as everyone agrees.
I can just see you getting together at your boating events to discuss topics over a nice Pepsi.
"...so, here we are...everyone has their Pepsi...I can assume we've all watched Hannity and Colmes this week",
"...YES..."
"...and I assume we've all listened to Rush all week..."
"...YES..."
"...lastly, I assume we all agree with Sean and Rush, and with one another..."
"...YES..."
And then Ultra26 pipes up,"...but you know, Colmes did make a few good points",
"ULTRA 26 you are dismissed. Meeting adjourned."
Seriously, ULTRA is the only one who seems to grasp the concept of a discussion. It's too bad that he is so subject to peer pressure and felt it was necessary to bust on me to fit in. Maybe you should go get your guitar back, ULTRA, and we could jam sometime.
At any rate, this has become all about me, and personally I am tired of talking about me, so I guess this ends here. I'll go back to just reading your posts until I find something else worthy of comment. I am kinda looking forward to the elections so that I can witness the collective cyber groaning that will no doubt dominate this forum on the morning after election day.
I hope the US Supreme court affirms DC's right to outlaw weapons possession, and I hope lots of states follow their lead. I hope this happens because I am SO TIRED of watching the news and hearing a daily dead/wounded tally from our nation's school and mall shooting sprees.
Homeless
20,000 New gun laws on the books since the sixties, gun crime rises.
States that grant right to carry, gun crime falls.
Liberal solution to gun crime?
More laws.:rolleyes:
Liberals are fckin imbeciles.
Hey numb nuts did you happen to notice that these massacres all occur in "gun free zones"?
A gun free zone is where only the criminals have guns, but you knew that didn't you?

[CARLSON-JET]

I agree with homeless in AZ. If we outlaw guns then they will go away, just like illegal drugs did. You don't see people on drugs anymore do you? They are non existent in America. If banning guns works as good as banning drugs did, I think Homeless is on the right track.
Good post. :D
This applies to murder, drinking and driving, Illegal immigration and on and on.. Making something illegal does not make it go away.
On another note. I feel everyone is responding to BonelesinAZ as if she were a man.. I'm thinking, not so much. :D

[cdog]

I live in a free state. :D :D :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/IMG_1785.jpg

[QuickJet]

I live in a free state. :D :D :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/IMG_1785.jpg
That's the best insurance policy I've ever seen.
AWESOME!!!

[homelessinaz]

Matthew Murray got plenty out of his rights this past week, but far be it for me to interfere on your sacred right to own really neat guns, even if it did cost two sisters their lives. I am sure their grieving parents don't mind the loss, as long as you walking hard-ons get to impress each other with your cool pictures of your totally awesome AK-47's, right?
And, let's not forget that there is a silver lining in every cloud. Jeanne Assam has gone from being a shamed ex-cop who was fired for lying in a report to being a trailer park sex symbol.
Here's what MoneyPitt had to say:
"Damn man, she saved untold amounts of lives....If I could affort the gas, I would drive up there and kiss her dead on the lips!!!!!!!.........YOU CAN NOT DENY THIS LADY IS NOT ONLY A HERO.......SHES "BAD TO THE BONE"........(FACT: IF SHE AINT, THEN THE TERM MEANS NOTHING!!!!!!!"
Look out Ann Coulter, there's a new bleach blonde, skanky, sunken faced, nicotine stained, gun toting, right wing slut/religious zealot on the block, and she's stealing your crowd!!!
Can you believe these quotes:
"God put us all in our special assignments," she said, "and he gave me the assignment of a law enforcer and that was what I was called to do."
"It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," (and I'm sure that God was saying, "KILL THAT ****ER! I NEVER LIKED HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE, FIRE HIS ASS UP!!!")
When asked whether she was married, Assam smiled and said, "God is going to find me the perfect man. I am saying that in front of all of you."
She said that she prayed to the Holy Spirit to guide her, and that she "knew [she] was the one given the assignment to stop this thing."
Why am I even bothering to ask if you can believe them, you guys probably just ran to go get some Vaseline after hearing them, right?
WOO HOO, KILLIN' FER JEEBUS!
Homeless

[QuickJet]

I agree with homeless in AZ. If we outlaw guns then they will go away, just like illegal drugs did. You don't see people on drugs anymore do you? They are non existent in America. If banning guns works as good as banning drugs did, I think Homeless is on the right track.
Agreed!!!
Why is it that idiots can't see past reality and try to live through fantasy.

[asch]

I think Homeboy is missing the point that the guy went on the offensive and committed crime(s) at which point he became a criminal. He doesn't seem to understand that the 2nd amend. doesn't apply to people who go out and murder. The woman that put him down went on the defensive, well within her right to do so and saved lives, period.
The comments about her being fired from her job and the name calling are irrelevant.
Homeboys pettiness resembles a couple others around here and its annoying.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

How in the hell did this become a religious discussion. A mad man goes on a shooting spree, an armed guard assists in stopping the terror. The guard is a hero end of story. It makes no difference if this occurred at a church or at a Jack in the Box. Homeless, WTF are you whining about. If you make valid points I will be more than happy to listen and agree. This isn't one of them.

[delemorte]

How in the hell did this become a religious discussion. A mad man goes on a shooting spree, an armed guard assists in stopping the terror. The guard is a hero end of story. It makes no difference if this occurred at a church or at a Jack in the Box. Homeless, WTF are you whining about. If you make valid points I will be more than happy to listen and agree. This isn't one of them.
Ultra,
When did you and I become right wingers?
as long as you walking hard-ons get to impress each other with your cool pictures of your totally awesome AK-47's, right?
And who the hell is showing of AK's?

[cdog]

Your 2nd amendment is the only way to back up your 1st. The constitution is not an ala cart menu. They all guarantee individual rights of the people or limit govt. powers.
Not to marginalize the deaths of those folks but more people died in car crashes and medical mal practice that day. You obviously have a different view of the way this country should look. Maybe you'd be happier in the UK. I'd be willing to donate some money to buy you a 1 way ticket.

[centerhill condor]

The guard is a hero end of story.
you got that right!
CC

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ultra,
When did you and I become right wingers?
I didn't think that we had :D :D

[delemorte]

I didn't think that we had :D :D
Well after listening to this nutjob i feel ultra right. I feel violated.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Well after listening to this nutjob i feel ultra right. I feel violated.
When one learns the historic meaning of the term "Left Wing" on quickly learns that most Americians are right wingers. Homeless and Poster X are the only true Left Wingers that I have seen on this Board. :idea:

[delemorte]

When one learns the historic meaning of the term "Left Wing" on quickly learns that most Americians are right wingers. Homeless and are the only true Left Wingers that I have seen on this Board. :idea:
then im sorry sir you guys are both crazy!!! :;)
As long as you dont step on my personal freedoms you can be left or right... it dont matter to me.

[eliminatedsprinter]

then im sorry sir you guys are both crazy!!! :;)
As long as you dont step on my personal freedoms you can be left or right... it dont matter to me.
Back in the late 1800s in the French Parliement the Communists and the Socialists got in so many physical altercations with everybody else, they had to be seperated to the left side of the isle (the left wing) of the hall. Thus the term "Left Wing" or "Left Winger" was applied to those who favored socialist/communist ideologies. The term "Right Winger" simply refers to those who oppose socialism or communism. The more strongly one opposes communism/socialism the farther right one is. I personally feel that communism and socialism are 2 of the most authoritarian forms of government ever devised, thus I am a Right Winger. If that makes me nuts, so be it.:D

[delemorte]

Back in the late 1800s in the French Parliement the Communists and the Socialists got in so many physical altercations with everybody else, they had to be seperated to the left side of the isle (the left wing) of the hall. Thus the term "Left Wing" or "Left Winger" was applied to those who favored socialist/communist ideologies. The term "Right Winger" simply refers to those who oppose socialism or communism. The more strongly one opposes communism/socialism the farther right one is. I personally feel that communism and socialism are 2 of the most authoritarian forms of government ever devised, thus I am a Right Winger. If that makes me nuts, so be it.:D
To be honest true communism is the ideal in my book. but greed and envy fook that up. But im down with the communist (by its truest definition)
"Communism is an ideology that promotes establishment of a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production. It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx."
everyone works, everyone contributes. those that dont work or dont contribute are left on the side. Think Star Trek. thats an ideological communist comunity. No currency and everyone contributes for the greater good.
Ideal but not practical in my book...

[delemorte]

then im sorry sir you guys are both crazy!!! :;)
As long as you dont step on my personal freedoms you can be left or right... it dont matter to me.
I missread that and thereby misstyoped this... i meant to say...
then bothTHOSE guys are crazy then.

[Schiada76]

To be honest true communism is the ideal in my book. but greed and envy fook that up. But im down with the communist (by its truest definition)
"Communism is an ideology that promotes establishment of a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production. It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx."
everyone works, everyone contributes. those that dont work or dont contribute are left on the side. Think Star Trek. thats an ideological communist comunity. No currency and everyone contributes for the greater good.
Ideal but not practical in my book...
This is great!
Communism! 100 million dead in 80 years!
Lets give it another try!!!:rolleyes:

[eliminatedsprinter]

To be honest true communism is the ideal in my book. but greed and envy fook that up. But im down with the communist (by its truest definition)
"Communism is an ideology that promotes establishment of a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production. It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx."
everyone works, everyone contributes. those that dont work or dont contribute are left on the side. Think Star Trek. thats an ideological communist comunity. No currency and everyone contributes for the greater good.
Ideal but not practical in my book...
Actually what you are describing (esp if you think Star Trek) is not Communism, but Utopian Socialism and it is from Robert Owen and Charles Fourier, not Karl Marx. It is actually older than the work of Karl Marx. Utopian Socialism (and the Socialist Movement) is much older than Karl Marx and Karl Marx actually found this ideology too extreme for his tastes...

[delemorte]

Actually what you are describing (esp if you think Star Trek) is not Communism, but Utopian Socialism and it is from Robert Owen and Charles Fourier, not Karl Marx. It is actually older than the work of Karl Marx. Utopian Socialism (and the Socialist Movement) is much older than Karl Marx and Karl Marx actually found this ideology too extreme for his tastes...
I meant that everybody works, everyone contributes (not nessecarily like some sci fi show). no class structure. but yes i totally agree it does not work and has costed untold lives and economies. Man is the mistake there and his greed/corruption and on the other end lasiness and wanting shit handed to you instead of working hard are the downfall of that idea.
Wouldnt it be nice if every one in the country worked to their fullest potential? I see everyone bitch about people being slack assesyet you disagree with everyone pitching in.

[cdog]

I meant that everybody works, everyone contributes (not nessecarily like some sci fi show). no class structure. but yes i totally agree it does not work and has costed untold lives and economies. Man is the mistake there and his greed/corruption and on the other end lasiness and wanting shit handed to you instead of working hard are the downfall of that idea.
Wouldnt it be nice if every one in the country worked to their fullest potential? I see everyone bitch about people being slack assesyet you disagree with everyone pitching in.
John Lennon is that you?:D Just screwin with ya!;)

[mike37]

homelessinaz = yapping dog you cant win she just wants to argue

[beernut]

you know guns dont kill ,people do, and guns are only one tool of many,many tools that can be used ,and by the way was that a 7.62x54 cal. in the first pic? m-44?

[homelessinaz]

This is great!
Communism! 100 million dead in 80 years!
Lets give it another try!!!:rolleyes:
So, do you ALWAYS speak in bumper stickers? Is that like speaking in tongues?
Here, I have one:
BUSH LIED, PEOPLE DIED!
Homeless

[QuickJet]

you know guns dont kill ,people do, and guns are only one tool of many,many tools that can be used ,and by the way was that a 7.62x54 cal. in the first pic? m-44?
Actually, Guns don't kill people....Bullets do.:)

[homelessinaz]

Wouldnt it be nice if every one in the country worked to their fullest potential? I see everyone bitch about people being slack assesyet you disagree with everyone pitching in.
Del, you feeling okay? Is your head hot? You just don't seem like yourself today.
Homeless

[STV_Keith]

And who the hell is showing of AK's?
Given that this thread was started by a gun OWNER, about guns, I'll oblige you with aforementioned picture of AK's. :)
Here's a couple of mine...
http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/guns/Saiga12s/converted-all.jpg
Another one:
http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/guns/MAK90/7-15-07_MAK90.jpg
And just to get the gun haters all riled up, a few more of my stash:
http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/guns/Saiga12s/7-15-07_saigas1.jpg

[Old Texan]

My Gawd STV, you're better armed than a lot of 3rd world countries!!!!
Is that one in the big pic, a "Canoe Cutter 47"? I hear there's a suspicious green one out there that needs sinking.......:devil: :D

[STV_Keith]

Haha, that's most of the AK collection...but JUST the AK collection. ;)

[Schiada76]

So, do you ALWAYS speak in bumper stickers? Is that like speaking in tongues?
Here, I have one:
BUSH LIED, PEOPLE DIED!
Homeless
Only problem is communism did kill 100 million and still counting.
You need to modify your lie to bring it more in line with a little bit of reality.
Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry. Vladimir Putin, Teddy the murderer, The Algore, Bush Senior, NSA, CIA, The gassed Kurds, the gassed Iranians, The Germang Govt., Mossad, etc. etc. etc. lied and terrorist died.:D
Why do they shoot people that try to escape from communists countries?:idea:

[YeLLowBoaT]

Stalin killed more people then hitler did...

[Schiada76]

Drugs kill more people in this country than guns do, liberals still love drugs and fear guns.:rolleyes: :D

[cdog]

Some get it. Some are just too fukin stupid.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/guncont2iz0.jpg

[Schiada76]

Some get it. Some are just too fukin stupid.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/guncont2iz0.jpg
Is that a bumper sticker?:idea: :rolleyes: :D

[delemorte]

John Lennon is that you?:D Just screwin with ya!;)
yeah sorry there.. i was having a warm and fuzzy moment...
Only problem is communism did kill 100 million and still counting.
But dont mistake true communisim with what lenin portraid as communism.
the issue with Stalin, Lenin etc is that they are human and in human nature there is
greed and power hungry monsters. True communism does not relaly work However
China has done very nice for it self. Not saying i want to live there mind you, I enjoy my bill of rigths.
But yes back on point.. 2nd amendment FTW.. down with a DC gun ban... Muhahaha..
and god damn i want an AK. My wife keeps saying i have enough though..
its time to sneak on in past her. I figure if i get it in the safe before she realizes it, i will have
it for a few months before she says anything.

[Schiada76]

yeah sorry there.. i was having a warm and fuzzy moment...
But dont mistake true communisim with what lenin portraid as communism.
the issue with Stalin, Lenin etc is that they are human and in human nature there is
greed and power hungry monsters. True communism does not relaly work However
China has done very nice for it self. Not saying i want to live there mind you, I enjoy my bill of rigths.
But yes back on point.. 2nd amendment FTW.. down with a DC gun ban... Muhahaha..
and god damn i want an AK. My wife keeps saying i have enough though..
its time to sneak on in past her. I figure if i get it in the safe before she realizes it, i will have
it for a few months before she says anything.
It's nice to see someone still believes in the tooth fairy.:rolleyes:
China has done very well for itself engaing in Capitalism, before that? Nothing but shit and executions.
True communism doesn't work becaues most people are lazy SLUGS. Your definition of "greed" would be anyone successful. Your thinking is bass ackwards. What institution of "higher" learning did you get your brain washing from?

[delemorte]

It's nice to see someone still believes in the tooth fairy.:rolleyes:
China has done very well for itself engaing in Capitalism, before that? Nothing but shit and executions.
True communism doesn't work becaues most people are lazy SLUGS. Your definition of "greed" would be anyone successful. Your thinking is bass ackwards. What institution of "higher" learning did you get your brain washing from?
Last time i checked China was still a communist country. and considering we are borrowing money from them to kill arabs then yes i would say they are doing just fine. they are also doing fine killing disodents and muffling free speech. never said i want to live there.
And yes by definition me wanting something nicer than my neighbor is the definition of greed. And yes lazzyness is a larger issue than greed. howewer Greed can also take the form of crime. people wanting something nice and to lazy to work for it so they steal it.
read all of my commment you and you will see me freely admit communism is not a feasable sollution, just a great idea in a perfect world, unless you dont mind putting disidents under t-72 tracks. it would alos be a great idea if uncle sam decided that i need not pay taxes ever again... or the wife would let me buy an AK.

[cdog]

or the wife would let me buy an AK.
http://www.jgsales.com/images/YugoM70FixedStockSM.jpg
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles-shotguns/ak-47-and-rpk-rifles/p/yugoslavian-ak-47-rifle-m70b1-with-wood-stock-/cPath/209_214/products_id/1442

[Schiada76]

Last time i checked China was still a communist country. and considering we are borrowing money from them to kill arabs then yes i would say they are doing just fine. they are also doing fine killing disodents and muffling free speech. never said i want to live there.
And yes by definition me wanting something nicer than my neighbor is the definition of greed. And yes lazzyness is a larger issue than greed. howewer Greed can also take the form of crime. people wanting something nice and to lazy to work for it so they steal it.
read all of my commment you and you will see me freely admit communism is not a feasable sollution, just a great idea in a perfect world, unless you dont mind putting disidents under t-72 tracks. it would alos be a great idea if uncle sam decided that i need not pay taxes ever again... or the wife would let me buy an AK.
Main Entry: greed
Pronunciation: \ˈgrēd\
Function: noun
Etymology: back-formation from greedy
Date: 1609
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed
No, wanting just compensation for hard work and success is not greedy.
What institute of higher learning did you receive your brain washing from?
Communism as Utopia?????:rolleyes:

[delemorte]

http://www.jgsales.com/images/YugoM70FixedStockSM.jpg
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles-shotguns/ak-47-and-rpk-rifles/p/yugoslavian-ak-47-rifle-m70b1-with-wood-stock-/cPath/209_214/products_id/1442
Yeah i know where i can pick up plenty. and after shooting my buddies i was pretty surprised at how accurate it was. we where tagging a 12 inch gong at 300 meters on iron sites and surplus ammo.
Main Entry: greed
Pronunciation: \ˈgrēd\
Function: noun
Etymology: back-formation from greedy
Date: 1609
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed
No, wanting just compensation for hard work and success is not greedy.
What institute of higher learning did you receive your brain washing from?
Communism as Utopia?????:rolleyes:
That public education for ya...
And no I don’t think wanting fare compensation for a job well done is greed. But wanting something far better than is required for the job could be... I drive a 06 4 door Tacoma when I did drive a 03 ranger. But I wanted something nicer and bigger so i upgraded. I own over a dozen firearms I really only need two. I own three cars and only really need two. You get the point. I was not calling you greedy, per say, because you have nice things just the idea that one wants better things in life that are not really required could be seen as greed.

[Schiada76]

Yeah i know where i can pick up plenty. and after shooting my buddies i was pretty surprised at how accurate it was. we where tagging a 12 inch gong at 300 meters on iron sites and surplus ammo.
That public education for ya...
And no I don’t think wanting fare compensation for a job well done is greed. But wanting something far better than is required for the job could be... I drive a 06 4 door Tacoma when I did drive a 03 ranger. But I wanted something nicer and bigger so i upgraded. I own over a dozen firearms I really only need two. I own three cars and only really need two. You get the point. I was not calling you greedy, per say, because you have nice things just the idea that one wants better things in life that are not really required could be seen as greed.
You didn't attend a University? The communist rhetoric sounds right out of Berzerkly.:idea: :D