ford or chevy

[Firefighter74]

Any input on weather I should keep my ford 460 or should I put a chevy motor in. I would like 750hp,blown or unblown. Bad thing is I live in Indiana and dont know to many places that can help.

[snake321]

I hear that ford's goin under and you're gonna have a hell of a time gettin spare parts for that thing.....

[GAWnCA]

Any input on weather I should keep my ford 460 or should I put a chevy motor in. I would like 750hp,blown or unblown. Bad thing is I live in Indiana and dont know to many places that can help.
Oh heck, stay with the Ford. Too bad you don't have PM.

[steelcomp]

Any input on weather I should keep my ford 460 or should I put a chevy motor in. I would like 750hp,blown or unblown. Bad thing is I live in Indiana and dont know to many places that can help.If you have the budget, 750 is very doable with your BB Ford. I'm putting together some top end kits that will address exactly what you're trying to accomplish. If you're interested, contact me at 805 350 1159 or scotfox@earthlink.net.

[dmontzsta]

I hear that ford's goin under and you're gonna have a hell of a time gettin spare parts for that thing.....
Ford will never "go under". Besides, most of the parts are after market these days anyway.

[snake321]

Why does 7/8's of this board run bbc????

[058]

Why does 7/8's of this board run bbc????Because 7/8's of this board are sheep............BAAAAAAA:D

[Sleeper CP]

Because 7/8's of this board are sheep............BAAAAAAA:D
:D :D :D ;)
Baaaahhh, Baaaahhhh, Naaaaaaahhhhhh:)
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[snake321]

Ford will never "go under". Besides, most of the parts are after market these days anyway.
Our local ford dealer went bellyup this year...

[058]

Our local ford dealer went bellyup this year...
....Your point is?

[roostwear]

Our local ford dealer went bellyup this year...
My sister-in-law lives in Middletown. I would expect nothing less from that town....

[snake321]

....Your point is?
People gave up on the fords....

[Blown 472]

Any input on weather I should keep my ford 460 or should I put a chevy motor in. I would like 750hp,blown or unblown. Bad thing is I live in Indiana and dont know to many places that can help.
Tons of info on here.
http://www.460ford.com/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=e5e4dbf3f2329bfbfcdb24b46d0f869b

[Blown 472]

People gave up on the fords....
All the more for us then.

[snake321]

My sister-in-law lives in Middletown. I would expect nothing less from that town....
She's still in business???

[snake321]

I shouldn't talk bad about fords, they keep me in business...

[roostwear]

With the bad attitude toward Fords, I would have thought you worked at Jackson, but not if "Ford keeps you in business".
Just do what everyone else does and head to Rookies and get hammered.

[snake321]

With the bad attitude toward Fords, I would have thought you worked at Jackson, but not if "Ford keeps you in business
I'm a paddle salesman.........

[thatguy]

Why does 7/8's of this board run bbc????
It's a lot easier. Thats why I run Chevy.
Tommy

[Jetaholic]

Why does 7/8's of this board run bbc????
Because ya don't have to mod the oiling system to get them to withstand extended high RPM use! :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156005&highlight=Oil+Pumps
Read this thread

[058]

Because ya don't have to mod the oiling system to get them to withstand extended high RPM use! :D
And what modifications would those be?:confused:

[Blown 472]

And what modifications would those be?:confused:
You know the one where you have to weld the pick up to the oil pump so it doesn't fall off.

[Jetaholic]

I've heard something about having to add an extra drainback hole in the lifter galley...there's one for ya. :D

[058]

I've heard something about having to add an extra drainback hole in the lifter galley...there's one for ya. :DWrong again...as usual. Try again and no cookie for you.

[058]

You know the one where you have to weld the pick up to the oil pump so it doesn't fall off.Or the one where you need to modify the oil pump to prevent spark scatter? Those spur gear pumps are deffently a technological breakthru in oiling, Ford stopped using those in the early 50s about the time the GM engineers finally figured out how to put an oil pump on their Chevy engines.

[Blown 472]

Or the one where you need to modify the oil pump to prevent spark scatter? Those spur gear pumps are deffently a technological breakthru in oiling, Ford stopped using those in the early 50s about the time the GM engineers finally figured out how to put an oil pump on their Chevy engines.
Then there is that whole 5 7 swap thing:rolleyes:

[steelcomp]

It's a lot easier. Thats why I run Chevy.
TommyThat's why most sheeple run Chevys. They're easy. :notam: Just about anyone can go to Pep Boys and build a hot rod Chevy.
There's doing it easy, or there's doing it better.
:D

[River Rat 005]

OH BOY!!!!!! Here we go again!!!!!!!:argue::boxingguy::cry:

[Sleeper CP]

OH BOY!!!!!! Here we go again!!!!!!!:argue::boxingguy::cry:
This is the nice thread. The one on "just jet's" got out of hand;)
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[ol guy]

Not keeping score but on the spare parts and parts availiability chevy EQUALS easy. Ford is just as easy and cheaper if you know how to do it. Just for SH$TS and giggles. 1980 southwind tunnel at NJBA off the trailer first pass in 1980 92mph. 429 tunnel ram and headers with the stuff I won't post. Then 1995 I played with a 1978 suothwind 18ft V-bottom jet, Single 850 and bottom and pump intake mods and GPS'd at 82mph and pulled skiers all day. THE BEST PART IS. ITS NOT WHO MADE IT IT IS HOW YOU BUILD IT AND CREATE A COMBO THAT WORKS TOGETHER. Ford GM chrysler They will all run if you just build a combo.MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[thatguy]

That's why most sheeple run Chevys. They're easy. :notam: Just about anyone can go to Pep Boys and build a hot rod Chevy.
There's doing it easy, or there's doing it better.
:D
Or if you just don't have the time, or inclanation. I have other interests also! :D :D
Tommy
PS- I ran mopars for years, Chevy's just kind of fit my time and budget better. I am not as enthusiastic about being a chevy guy as most ford guys are about fords.

[likwidsukr]

My sister-in-law lives in Middletown. I would expect nothing less from that town....
LMFAO!!!:eek:

[dmontzsta]

People gave up on the fords....
Thats funny, I was just at the desert and I did not see ONE chevy out there. Everyone had F series trucks, even the off road trucks were all F150s and Rangers. :D

[DMOORE]

YAWN...........
Darrell.

[steelcomp]

YAWN...........
Darrell.what, chevys bore you too?

[DMOORE]

what, chevys bore you too?
No, just all the kids yelling in the playground.
Darrell.

[058]

what, chevys bore you too?Simple minds are easily bored.....:D

[snake321]

Thats funny, I was just at the desert and I did not see ONE chevy out there. Everyone had F series trucks, even the off road trucks were all F150s and Rangers. :D
I drive an F250
Bought it from the dodge dealer....

[River Rat 005]

This is the nice thread. The one on "just jet's" got out of hand;)
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D
Sleeper, give it time. I don't know why some of these threads have to come to blows. Everyone has there preference. Build what you like and prove it on the track.
Tim

[Sleeper CP]

Sleeper, give it time. I don't know why some of these threads have to come to blows. Everyone has there preference. Build what you like and prove it on the track.
Tim
Oh, the other team and 058 had me rolling yesterday(lol) they had their creative juices flowwing that's for sure.;) No blow's just good old bench racing.:D
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[GAWnCA]

Sleeper, give it time. I don't know why some of these threads have to come to blows. Everyone has there preference. Build what you like and prove it on the track.
Tim
Heck, if you've got a Chevy build it, if you've got a Ford build that. Who cares as long as you're happy and you can get out and tear up the water.

[River Rat 005]

Yep thats the way I see it. I prefer Chevy as I know them better. All can run. Hell, I 've been beat by out boards now and then. It only hurts a little while. :(
Tim

[2manymustangs]

Or the one where you need to modify the oil pump to prevent spark scatter? Those spur gear pumps are deffently a technological breakthru in oiling, Ford stopped using those in the early 50s about the time the GM engineers finally figured out how to put an oil pump on their Chevy engines.
Chebby's have oil pumps now? Last one I looked inside of still had oil slingers on the bottom of the rods like an old tecumseh 5HP...
I would pull my boat around with no engine a rusty piece of barb wire tied to my johnson before I would own a boat with chebby power. :devil:

[HalletDave]

Chebby's have oil pumps now? Last one I looked inside of still had oil slingers on the bottom of the rods like an old tecumseh 5HP...
I would pull my boat around with no engine a rusty piece of barb wire tied to my johnson before I would own a boat with chebby power. :devil:
That would surely leave a mark:jawdrop: :D

[2manymustangs]

It's a risk I'm willing to take for the sake of staying loyal to the big bad blue oval! :devil:

[FuelInMyVeins82]

I've heard that fabricating a two piece front motor plate system on a ford is far more extensive than that of a Chevy. Something about the timing chain cover being in the way.

[2manymustangs]

Just take a little 3/8" x 3 1/2" bar stock and fab up one like this... Still needs polishing and the inside radius's put in, oh and a few holes poked in it...
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45092&stc=1&d=1197548376

[dmontzsta]

Funny thing is, dont the high end chevy guys relocate their dizzy into the RIGHT place? :)

[FuelInMyVeins82]

Just take a little 3/8" x 3 1/2" bar stock and fab up one like this... Still needs polishing and the inside radius's put in, oh and a few holes poked in it...
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45092&stc=1&d=1197548376
Most of the two piece plate systems I've see run up higher and incorporate the cooling system in the front of the block. They also use the bolt holes around the water jackets to make it stronger. Cool looking piece though. I would be interested to see it when it is all done and installed.
Heres a pic of what I was talking about. Its a chevy but gives the idea
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r309/JordanW82/misc006.jpg

[058]

I've heard that fabricating a two piece front motor plate system on a ford is far more extensive than that of a Chevy. Something about the timing chain cover being in the way.
Is that the best you can do for the Chevy vs. Ford arguement?....pretty lame if you ask me:yuk:

[FuelInMyVeins82]

Is that the best you can do for the Chevy vs. Ford arguement?....pretty lame if you ask me:yuk:
LOL Hey I think you can make big power with both. I was just pointing out a particular reason why I think some people are more apt to build a Chevy over a Ford. Theres also the fact that chevy parts are more accesable (whether its buying, or borrowing) while at the river. At the end of the day I think both have their advantages but your going to spend more money to make the same power that you would in a Chevy.
Besides whats w/ the distributor in the front?? It just looks bizzare.

[058]

LOL Hey I think you can make big power with both. I was just pointing out a particular reason why I think some people are more apt to build a Chevy over a Ford. Theres also the fact that chevy parts are more accesable (whether its buying, or borrowing) while at the river. At the end of the day I think both have their advantages but your going to spend more money to make the same power that you would in a Chevy.
Besides whats w/ the distributor in the front?? It just looks bizzare.Chevy parts more accessable? Not if you know where to look....As for used parts, yep, couldn't agree with you more. Ford guys tend to hang on to everything, myself included. Chevy guys seem to be poorer have more financial problems it seems as to why there are more used and used up parts available for Chevys.:D Make more power with a Chevy? I guess thats why you see more blowers on Chevys than on Fords, the Chevys need all the help they can get.;) :D Borrowing parts? If your hooptie didn't break there would be no need to borrow anything.:idea:

[jkh04200]

My buddy, major gear head, his last "race car" was a 71 mustang. His first ford. Very reputable engine builder down here put the combo together. My buddy did all the work, porting, cc'in, plishin the beams, assembly, etc. Builder said he had built and dyno'ed other BBF with the same stuff and had 800+hp. Buddy spend 2,000.00 total.
That was a screaming bitch. Many ppl paid him 200.00 to pull the intake to check for nitrous after he drilled them a new asshole in the old ford. LOL

[Warp Speed]

Chevy parts more accessable? Not if you know where to look....As for used parts, yep, couldn't agree with you more. Ford guys tend to hang on to everything, myself included. Chevy guys seem to be poorer have more financial problems it seems as to why there are more used and used up parts available for Chevys.:D Make more power with a Chevy? I guess thats why you see more blowers on Chevys than on Fords, the Chevys need all the help they can get.;) :D Borrowing parts? If your hooptie didn't break there would be no need to borrow anything.:idea:
Ok 058,
So Ford engines are far superior when it comes to design and power output!
Feel better now?? :D
But with the superior design and power advantage, you would think they would find victory lane more often!! :idea:
Either there isn't the advantage you speak of, or you Ford guy's need to quit bragging and get back to work on them!! :D
Us Chevy guy's seem to do alright for being at such a big handicap, be it financial or technical!! :D :D
Warp Speed ;)

[YeLLowBoaT]

Ok 058,
So Ford engines are far superior when it comes to design and power output!
Feel better now?? :D
But with the superior design and power advantage, you would think they would find victory lane more often!! :idea:
Either there isn't the advantage you speak of, or you Ford guy's need to quit bragging and get back to work on them!! :D
Us Chevy guy's seem to do alright for being at such a big handicap, be it financial or technical!! :D :D
Warp Speed ;)
have you ever looked at the rules for say drag racing or say boat racing?

[Warp Speed]

have you ever looked at the rules for say drag racing or say boat racing?
Yes I have....................and????? :confused:
Warp Speed ;)

[YeLLowBoaT]

Alot of them will only let you use a chevy or make you use a chevy( IE baning some ford products... like 385 seriers motors. do to having the max bore spacing be that of a BBC... ) Besides how many drag racers do you know that are actually useing Chevy parts ( where they are not forced too)?

[058]

Ok 058,
So Ford engines are far superior when it comes to design and power output!
Feel better now?? :D
But with the superior design and power advantage, you would think they would find victory lane more often!! :idea:
Either there isn't the advantage you speak of, or you Ford guy's need to quit bragging and get back to work on them!! :D
Us Chevy guy's seem to do alright for being at such a big handicap, be it financial or technical!! :D :D
Warp Speed ;)Glad to see youy finally admit it:D Since you are a NASCAR guy,
lets talk about NASCAR....Ford has the only engine that resembles a true passenger car engine, does the Chevy? Hardly, it looks more like a Ford than ever before. Lets look for the distributor, where is it? ....Oh there it is in the front, just like a Ford...Where is the fuel pump? Is it where you normally can find the fuel pump on a Chevy? ...oh, look its on the left side, just like the Ford. Heads....hummm they look more like a Yates Ford head that any typical Chevy, symetrical ports and all...Care to talk about chassis? The front suspension is a direct design from the 65 Galaxie no matter what sheet metal is on the car. The transmissions are all direct decendents from the Ford Toploader be it a Jerico or a Liberty. And lets not forget what rearends are under all the cars....what are they??...9" Ford rearends.:D May I remind you of the Chevy/Illmore problem, or are you familar with that? Let me refresh your memory....The Chevy was down on power and not competitive so they had a Ford Company [Cosworth] redesign the engine to make it competitive. Just because Ford isn't winning races now means nothing, every car co. struggles from time to time and since the Ford NASCAR engine is the oldest and closest to a true production engine on the race track it may be time to upgrade it, but you know the old saying "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery". I'm glad I've had this oppertunity to enlighten you. Come back any time for another lesson.:D

[dmontzsta]

Glad to see youy finally admit it:D Since you are a NASCAR guy,
lets talk about NASCAR....Ford has the only engine that resembles a true passenger car engine, does the Chevy? Hardly, it looks more like a Ford than ever before. Lets look for the distributor, where is it? ....Oh there it is in the front, just like a Ford...Where is the fuel pump? Is it where you normally can find the fuel pump on a Chevy? ...oh, look its on the left side, just like the Ford. Heads....hummm they look more like a Yates Ford head that any typical Chevy, symetrical ports and all...Care to talk about chassis? The front suspension is a direct design from the 65 Galaxie no matter what sheet metal is on the car. The transmissions are all direct decendents from the Ford Toploader be it a Jerico or a Liberty. And lets not forget what rearends are under all the cars....what are they??...9" Ford rearends.:D May I remind you of the Chevy/Illmore problem, or are you familar with that? Let me refresh your memory....The Chevy was down on power and not competitive so they had a Ford Company [Cosworth] redesign the engine to make it competitive. Just because Ford isn't winning races now means nothing, every car co. struggles from time to time and since the Ford NASCAR engine is the oldest and closest to a true production engine on the race track it may be time to upgrade it, but you know the old saying "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery". I'm glad I've had this oppertunity to enlighten you. Come back any time for another lesson.:D
Doesnt Ford still hold the most wins in NASCAR history?

[YeLLowBoaT]

Doesnt Ford still hold the most wins in NASCAR history?
I have no idea about that... but they do have something that I know chevy does not have... threepeat at la mans not to mention the 1,2,3 they had in one of those years... no other car manufactor has ever done that...

[Jetaholic]

I have no idea about that... but they do have something that I know chevy does not have... threepeat at la mans not to mention the 1,2,3 they had in one of those years... no other car manufactor has ever done that...
Not to thread jack, but I love your DCB sig line. :D

[Hass828]

Ford engines are for tug boats and sh-t haulers. Chevys are for racing:)

[IMPATIENT 1]

Ford engines are for tug boats and sh-t haulers. Chevys are for racing:)
i agree 100% my bbf sj towed in alot of bbc's :D that qualifies them as haulin shit and a tug boat at the same time right?lmao :D :D miss runnin a bbf, they stay on the water more than the trailer :idea: chevy's are alittle cheaper to build, i'll give you that. when peeps break alot of parts, company's mass produce em, makes the part cheaper;)

[Jetaholic]

when peeps break alot of parts, company's mass produce em, makes the part cheaper;)
Actually...it's when not that many people are building Fords they gotta make their money somehow. :D

[IMPATIENT 1]

Actually...it's when not that many people are building Fords they gotta make their money somehow. :D
another confused chebby guy :rolleyes: its because the bbf owners aren't replacing parts, the bbf parts will be higher since whoever developed that bbf part is trying to pay for production costs. bbc part builders know they're gonna recover their investment money quik:D :D :D lol, i'm a general motors tech and won't drive anything but chebby, but i like them bbfs in lake boats ;) currently buildin a stroked bbc :rolleyes: wishin i was building a cj headed 557bbf :(

[058]

Doesnt Ford still hold the most wins in NASCAR history?Only when they were truly STOCK cars.... I think Chevy claims "most stock car wins" in the Modern Era.....WTF is the "modern era"? When Ironhead Earnhart started winning? How convenent, Or when GM decided the "Modern era" started? I don't think a FWD Lumina or FWD Monte Carlo qualifys as a REAL stock car...especially since there is nothing more that a limp anemic V6 available in the Lumina and Monte Carlo. Wonder why GM was such a loser in the real "Stock Car" period of 62 thru 70 when you could accually purchase a competitive car off the showroom floor that could be raced with nothing more that a 8 point cage and a set of floating axles.....but then the GM cars could not compete in that arena even with Bill France in the back pocket of GM.....Hello!!.....Hey Warp Speed....what say you now? Or are you too young to remember REAL stock cars.:D

[Jetaholic]

another confused chebby guy :rolleyes: its because the bbf owners aren't replacing parts, the bbf parts will be higher since whoever developed that bbf part is trying to pay for production costs. bbc part builders know they're gonna recover their investment money quik:
Of course they will...cause they know you Ferd guys are eventually gonna get tired of paying high cost for building Ferds and will eventually switch to a better motor. :D

[468miller]

oh damn some guy just dumped a ford in my front lawn, wearin a chevy tshirt beggin for forgivness.........:D

[steelcomp]

Glad to see youy finally admit it:D Since you are a NASCAR guy,
lets talk about NASCAR....Ford has the only engine that resembles a true passenger car engine, does the Chevy? Hardly, it looks more like a Ford than ever before. Lets look for the distributor, where is it? ....Oh there it is in the front, just like a Ford...Where is the fuel pump? Is it where you normally can find the fuel pump on a Chevy? ...oh, look its on the left side, just like the Ford. Heads....hummm they look more like a Yates Ford head that any typical Chevy, symetrical ports and all...Care to talk about chassis? The front suspension is a direct design from the 65 Galaxie no matter what sheet metal is on the car. The transmissions are all direct decendents from the Ford Toploader be it a Jerico or a Liberty. And lets not forget what rearends are under all the cars....what are they??...9" Ford rearends.:D May I remind you of the Chevy/Illmore problem, or are you familar with that? Let me refresh your memory....The Chevy was down on power and not competitive so they had a Ford Company [Cosworth] redesign the engine to make it competitive. Just because Ford isn't winning races now means nothing, every car co. struggles from time to time and since the Ford NASCAR engine is the oldest and closest to a true production engine on the race track it may be time to upgrade it, but you know the old saying "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery". I'm glad I've had this oppertunity to enlighten you. Come back any time for another lesson.:DDamn 058...you stole my thunder. I always love to "enlighten" a Chebby guy when it comes to NASCAR. It took GM a LONG time to catch up with Ford's total domination of the superspeedway. As high tech as everything has gotten, Ford's engine still represents the basic Windsor block with a Cleveland style head. The Chevy engine has zero in common with any production engine GM ever built.
As far as NHRA, there's a blatant bias in favor of GM products, as well as in the magazines and racing media.
Lets face it...any idiot (no offense to anyone) can go to Pep Boys and build a hot rod Chevy. You have to know a little more about what you're doing to build a hot rod Ford. On the sportsman level, the pricing and parts availability is about even now days, but lets remember this. It was in the early 80's that performance anything from Detroit was a thing of the past, and the performance aftermarket was dying a slow mizerable death. That was untill Ford introduced the "new" mustang, with, factory forged pistons, tube headers, a true dual exhaust, aluminum intake, and a Holley four barrel. They soon had the first factory roller cam, first 5 spd tranas, and it wasn't long before fuel injection appeared. Ford, with that car, single handedly resurrected the aftermarket industry and a new interest in Performance cars from Detroit. The Mustang Camaro wars soon began again, but GM didn't get it, and the Camaro and Firebird soon became such pieces of junk that no one would buy them. Ford, on the other hand, kept a close eye on what their customers were asking for, and were true to their loyalists, continuing the trend with the Mustang, and the latest S197 design was the best one yet. Chevy still dosen't get it, as far as I can tell, with the new Camaro. It just dosen't look like a Camaro.
And how many years has the F150 been the no. one selling vehicle in the world?? How long has Ford dominated off road racing? And how ablout road racing? Look back at SCCA and see how long Ford dominated those classes.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Of course they will...cause they know you Ferd guys are eventually gonna get tired of paying high cost for building Ferds and will eventually switch to a better motor. :D
my last bbf lasted 25yrs, the last 3 with me beating it like it owed me money with a 200hp shot of nitrous:devil: on stock rods, stock crank, stock pistons, rings, bearings etc etc etc etc.only tore it down to build it up for more nitrous and i still shoved bottle after bottle of nitrous thru it till i sold it 3yrs later:D i've still got the old oe parts i pulled outta the bbf if you ever wanna build a standard bored bbf, you can prob reuse the 28yr old bearings too:D :D
btw, i'm a chevy guy;) just happen to like bbf(385) alittle more, not fords specifically.

[Jetaholic]

The truth about a Ford (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,2071.0.html)
Pics don't lie...

[058]

I have no idea about that... but they do have something that I know chevy does not have... threepeat at la mans not to mention the 1,2,3 they had in one of those years... no other car manufactor has ever done that...Not only Ford did that but with 50's technology, it was done with the 427 FE that the basic design goes back to the early to mid 50s when there was no CAD tech, flow bench, dyno tuning or other design aids available to help design the same engine that ran on European 83-84 octane gas and still made 485-515 HP that would last for 48 hours at race track speed with acceleration, gear changes and braking....in fact the winning engine made more HP at the end of the race that it did at the beginning. Ford engineers did NOT mark the engine crates with the HP-Torque & dyno figures on purpose so the race teams would not viy for the engines with the most HP/TQ. As far as the teams were concerned all the engines made the same HP/TQ. The engine that made the most HP and torque never got used and remained in it's crate. The engine that made the least HP was the one that won Le Mans. The FE 427 was so dominate that the FIA outlawed any engine over 5 liters after the 67 Le Mans. The Gulf Oil GT 40 car still remains the most winning car in history covering more miles in the least amount of time than any other single car.

[HIRED GUN]

058.......FORD built one heluva tractor!

[steelcomp]

Not only Ford did that but with 50's technology, it was done with the 427 FE that the basic design goes back to the early to mid 50s when there was no CAD tech, flow bench, dyno tuning or other design aids available to help design the same engine that ran on European 83-84 octane gas and still made 485-515 HP that would last for 48 hours at race track speed with acceleration, gear changes and braking....in fact the winning engine made more HP at the end of the race that it did at the beginning. Ford engineers did NOT mark the engine crates with the HP-Torque & dyno figures on purpose so the race teams would not viy for the engines with the most HP/TQ. As far as the teams were concerned all the engines made the same HP/TQ. The engine that made the most HP and torque never got used and remained in it's crate. The engine that made the least HP was the one that won Le Mans. The FE 427 was so dominate that the FIA outlawed any engine over 5 liters after the 67 Le Mans. The Gulf Oil GT 40 car still remains the most winning car in history covering more miles in the least amount of time than any other single car.The FE is still one of my favorite engines of all times. Nothing sounds like an un-corked FE with 14:1 and a big ass roller, breathing through stacks.

[IMPATIENT 1]

The truth about a Ford (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,2071.0.html)
Pics don't lie...
when you own the information, you can bend it all ya want ;) that's a truth.
go find the best tall deck oe mark iv block you can find, then find a 460bbf block. see how many cubes you can get out each.a 557bbf with the bigger bore piston, smaller stroke and unmolested block(no cutting the block to clear rods;) unlike bbc) would be a clear choice i think for a boat turnin less than 6500rpms. my guess is anytime a block gets material removed, it gets weaker, but i'm just a okie:rolleyes: :D the bbf 557 can run a smaller dome also since most bbf heads are smaller than 93cc. big piston surface, good flame traveling flattops, on a shorter stroke, more cubes, in a cheap cubic inch race, i'd go bbf.

[Jetaholic]

when you own the information, you can bend it all ya want ;) that's a truth.
go find the best tall deck oe mark iv block you can find, then find a 460bbf block. see how many cubes you can get out each.a 557bbf with the bigger bore piston, smaller stroke and unmolested block(no cutting the block to clear rods;) unlike bbc) would be a clear choice i think for a boat turnin less than 6500rpms. my guess is anytime a block gets material removed, it gets weaker, but i'm just a okie:rolleyes: :D the bbf 557 can run a smaller dome also since most bbf heads are smaller than 93cc. big piston surface, good flame traveling flattops, on a shorter stroke, more cubes, in a cheap cubic inch race, i'd go bbf.
Most Ford heads are smaller than 93cc? Not much of a variety there...we BBC guys have 2 different size heads...for different applications...and 3 different types of induction ports...
Personally I'll go for the variety and interchangability:D

[058]

The truth about a Ford (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,2071.0.html)
Pics don't lie...Ohhhh...Pleeeeeezzze....Is that the best you can do? Run along little boy and go cry to your momma about those big bad Ford people beating up on the poor little Chevy wimps. Go on....get.....the big people are talking here.....

[Jetaholic]

Ohhhh...Pleeeeeezzze....Is that the best you can do? Run along little boy and go cry to your momma about those big bad Ford people beating up on the poor little Chevy wimps. Go on....get.....the big people are talking here.....
How about that? The Ford guys tryin' to shut the Chevy guys up already! Must not want us here revealing the deep dark secrets of a Ford. :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

Not only Ford did that but with 50's technology, it was done with the 427 FE that the basic design goes back to the early to mid 50s when there was no CAD tech, flow bench, dyno tuning or other design aids available to help design the same engine that ran on European 83-84 octane gas and still made 485-515 HP that would last for 48 hours at race track speed with acceleration, gear changes and braking....in fact the winning engine made more HP at the end of the race that it did at the beginning. Ford engineers did NOT mark the engine crates with the HP-Torque & dyno figures on purpose so the race teams would not viy for the engines with the most HP/TQ. As far as the teams were concerned all the engines made the same HP/TQ. The engine that made the most HP and torque never got used and remained in it's crate. The engine that made the least HP was the one that won Le Mans. The FE 427 was so dominate that the FIA outlawed any engine over 5 liters after the 67 Le Mans. The Gulf Oil GT 40 car still remains the most winning car in history covering more miles in the least amount of time than any other single car.
then there was that single over head cam motor that ford built, just for nascar... you might have heard of it... it lasted one race before NASCAR baned it, but ford knows very little about racing... :D

[steelcomp]

when you own the information, you can bend it all ya want ;) that's a truth.
go find the best tall deck oe mark iv block you can find, then find a 460bbf block. see how many cubes you can get out each.a 557bbf with the bigger bore piston, smaller stroke and unmolested block(no cutting the block to clear rods;) unlike bbc) would be a clear choice i think for a boat turnin less than 6500rpms. my guess is anytime a block gets material removed, it gets weaker, but i'm just a okie:rolleyes: :D the bbf 557 can run a smaller dome also since most bbf heads are smaller than 93cc. big piston surface, good flame traveling flattops, on a shorter stroke, more cubes, in a cheap cubic inch race, i'd go bbf.BB Ford rod/stroke ratios actually make the BBF a potentially higher revving engine than the BB Chev. I had a 429 (2 bolt CJ engine, flat top cast pistons w/ 10.7:1 cr) in a 69 Mustang that I turned 7500 on the street all the time. Garage ported DOVE heads, Isky solid flat tappet, stock crank, stock cast pistons, stock shoulder cut rods, Accell dual point and a Buddy Bar 2 X 4 intake. Drove it for two years. Freekin car hauled ass!

[058]

058.......FORD built one heluva tractor!
You bet they did....you ever seen what those TRACTOR PULLERS are doing with the BBF? 9000 RPM for 25 seconds at a time under full throttle......FULL PULL.....BABY!!!!!....and thats with a 2 bolt block, cast crank and a stock block. Can you Chevy guys do that?....'com on Richey ....you can do better than that....:D

[IMPATIENT 1]

Most Ford heads are smaller than 93cc? Not much of a variety there...we BBC guys have 2 different size heads...for different applications...and 3 different types of induction ports...
Personally I'll go for the variety and interchangability:D
don't fix it if it ain't broke principal applies here brother;) all the different bbc heads are compression fixes. a flattoped 557bbf with d3 heads(92-93cc) is 11 to 1 and runs awesome on 93 pump gas :D but if you like slinging around a big crank,rods, and heavy domed piston, 11 to 1 540bbc go right ahead:D don't let common sense stop ya:D :D :D :D

[058]

How about that? The Ford guys tryin' to shut the Chevy guys up already! Must not want us here revealing the deep dark secrets of a Ford. :D
And what....pray tell are those "Secrets" The last thing I want to do is shut a Chevy guy up....he will do a good enough job of burying himself without my help.....:D

[steelcomp]

Most Ford heads are smaller than 93cc? Not much of a variety there...we BBC guys have 2 different size heads...for different applications...and 3 different types of induction ports...
Personally I'll go for the variety and interchangability:DWoo hoo!!! Holy caw, dude...you really don't know much about Fords. You can't count the number of different head castings Ford has. For the 385 series engine alone...I think there's like 8 different castings. Then we can talk FE...at least 12 different castings there...the Windsor, who knows how many there...You're a little behind the curve when it comes to selection.

[Jetaholic]

all the different bbc heads are compression fixes.
Compression "fixes"? How in the hell do you "fix" compression?
It's called "different compression ratios for different applications. :D

[steelcomp]

Compression "fixes"? How in the hell do you "fix" compression?
It's called "different compression ratios for different applications. :DNo, it's called the closed chamber heads sucked, so they had to "fix" it.

[HIRED GUN]

You bet they did....you ever seen what those TRACTOR PULLERS are doing with the BBF? 9000 RPM for 25 seconds at a time under full throttle......FULL PULL.....BABY!!!!!....and thats with a 2 bolt block, cast crank and a stock block. Can you Chevy guys do that?....'com on Richey ....you can do better than that....:D
actually 058 i was speaking the truth!........I go to a webpage that Mr. Steelcomp goes to frequently and its all about building motors for tractor pulling.....Ford is ahead of the pack.....choke on that sandwich,:D

[IMPATIENT 1]

Compression "fixes"? How in the hell do you "fix" compression?
It's called "different compression ratios for different applications. :D
lmao, you know what i mean:D just like chevy has a closed chamber for 396/427 to make a decent compression. even a flat topped 429bbf with the smallest chamber stock ford heads has a full point more compression than a 427bbc with the smallest bbc chambered head. still sounds cheaper to make more hp with a bbf cheap to me:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

[058]

Most Ford heads are smaller than 93cc? Not much of a variety there...we BBC guys have 2 different size heads...for different applications...and 3 different types of induction ports...
Personally I'll go for the variety and interchangability:D And the Chevy heads require a large domed piston to make any compresson thats worth a shit.....If you knew the basics of engines and HP you would know the dome will do more harm to a flame front than any other combustion chamber design.....I'll take the flat top piston anytime over a domed piston.....Sorry, Chevy loses again.....but thats expected...:D You guys should be getting used to that by now.

[steelcomp]

actually 058 i was speaking the truth!........I go to a webpage that Mr. Steelcomp goes to frequently and its all about building motors for tractor pulling.....Ford is ahead of the pack.....choke on that sandwich,:DWhen you get outside rule limitations like 4.840 bore center ONLY, and such, you'll see more BB Fords being built and winning than you'd imagine. Look at the Mountain Motor class in IHRA...it's been dominated by Ford. Tractor pulls are another place. Now there's a racing venue that'll prove an engine's metal.

[IMPATIENT 1]

while we're doin the ford vs chevy dealio again:D has anyone ever broke a bbf cast crank? i know i beat on 1 with @600-650hp and a 300hp shot and it never flinched:D i've just never herd of anyone cracking 1, just curious. i know someone somewhere went ape shit crazy with hp and done it but it'd be cool to know how far it got pushed:confused:

[058]

actually 058 i was speaking the truth!........I go to a webpage that Mr. Steelcomp goes to frequently and its all about building motors for tractor pulling.....Ford is ahead of the pack.....choke on that sandwich,:DAccccc....Acccc......I'm choking.....damn, never thought I'd see the day......Welcome to the DARK side:D

[steelcomp]

And the Chevy heads require a large domed piston to make any compresson thats worth a shit.....If you knew the basics of engines and HP you would know the dome will do more harm to a flame front than any other combustion chamber design.....I'll take the flat top piston anytime over a domed piston.....Sorry, Chevy loses again.....but thats expected...:D You guys should be getting used to that by now.Damn, and you were doing so good...don't tell that to the F1 guys. :D (Piston dome/chamber relationship is critical to making good power, but that's another thread)

[steelcomp]

Hey, lets not forget about the Cosworth!!

[058]

When you get outside rule limitations like 4.840 bore center ONLY, and such, you'll see more BB Fords being built and winning than you'd imagine. Look at the Mountain Motor class in IHRA...it's been dominated by Ford. Tractor pulls are another place. Now there's a racing venue that'll prove an engine's metal.
Funny you mention IHRA.....thats a subject the Chevy guys would rather forget..... They crow about NHRA and the 500" limit and the 9.2" deck height and how GM dominates the class...bring it up and they grow wood.....guess every blind squrrel finds a nut once in a while.

[058]

Damn, and you were doing so good...don't tell that to the F1 guys. :D (Piston dome/chamber relationship is critical to making good power, but that's another thread)
Thats another subject completly....you are talking about pent roof combustion chamber, a different animal completly on a different fuel....com' on, I expected more from you.....:D Edit: 4 valves, centrally located spark plug, small displacement, short stroke and a favorable rod ratio in the ultra high rpm range....What are they spinning now, 18K?.....different deal and very little in common with what we are ""discussing"".....ok...arguing.

[steelcomp]

Funny you mention IHRA.....thats a subject the Chevy guys would rather forget..... They crow about NHRA and the 500" limit and the 9.2" deck height and how GM dominates the class...bring it up and they grow wood.....guess every blind squrrel finds a nut once in a while.LOL...yeah, throw 'em a few nuts and they're usually pretty happy.:D Remember when Pro Stock was small blocks? There weren't too many aftermarket parts then, and you pretty much had what the factory offered. Can anyone say Jack Roush?

[steelcomp]

Thats another subject completly....you are talking about pent roof combustion chamber, a different animal completly on a different fuel....com' on, I expected more from you.....:D:D ...same principal applies. Actually I'm talking about the fast-burn "soft" headed 351C Yates design by Larry Widmer. A dome can always be used in your favor if you know how. It's hard to control what's going on inside a chamber without a dome. Like I said, another thread. In your defense, if a dome is just to raise compression without any thought in it's design, then it's true...you're probably better off without one.

[058]

:D ...same principal applies. Actually I'm talking about the fast-burn "soft" headed 351C Yates design by Larry Widmere. A dome can always be used in your favor if you know how. It's hard to control what's going on inside a chamber without a dome. Like I said, another thread. In your defense, if a dome is just to raise compression without any thought in it's design, then it's true...you're probably better off without one.
Damn....we lost the Chevy guys.....it was just getting good too. But its expected of them to run away when the going get tough.:D As to your comments on the "fast burn" chamber the SBF head did not usually need a domed piston as it was app. 35cc chamber and a flat top piston was all it needed for its legal compression ratio.

[steelcomp]

Damn....we lost the Chevy guys.....it was just getting good too. But its expected of them to run away when the going get tough.:D As to your comments on the "fast burn" chamber the SBF head did not usually need a domed piston as it was app. 35cc chamber and a flat top piston was all it needed for its legal compression ratio.Just like at the races :D
It wasn't untill everyone (NASCAR) figured that they were running upwards of 18:1 that there was ever a limit on CR. Those heads were designed to run with a dome. They ran a test engine on a dyno at near 20:1 and put enough timing in it to shove the crank right out the bhottom...it never detonated. :eek:
Few people really knew what was under Bill Elliott's hood when he was so dominant. That head was a big part of it. Bob Glidden's "Boss 429" Pro Stock head was the same technology (by Larry Widmer & Alan Root), and one of the main reasons he was so dominant.

[HIRED GUN]

Damn....we lost the Chevy guys.....it was just getting good too. But its expected of them to run away when the going get tough.:D As to your comments on the "fast burn" chamber the SBF head did not usually need a domed piston as it was app. 35cc chamber and a flat top piston was all it needed for its legal compression ratio.
easy 058...im here reading andlistening and learning...damm im hungry...where can i get a good snadwich?

[steelcomp]

easy 058...im here reading andlistening and learning...damm im hungry...where can i get a good snadwich?LOL...I've been mackin on a box of Triscuts.:D

[058]

easy 058...im here reading andlistening and learning...damm im hungry...where can i get a good snadwich? Dunno, Rich....We sold the Deli back in August, Try Togos or Subway.....:D :D

[058]

Hey Rich....If ya hurry you can order a pizza from Roundtable.....they deliver until midnite. I'll have a pepperoni, olive and mushroom....deepdish if you please:D

[058]

OK, i'm gonna put this whole Ford vs Chevy to rest now. I'll start with Ford designing the 1st low cost single casting V8 block in 1932. There had been V8s before but only high priced cars with multiple piece cast block assemblys. It was Ford engineers that figured how to properly balance a V8 engine and use the firing order to equalize bearing loads. It was Ford that designed the 1st 180 deg intake manifold for equal fuel distribution. It was Ford that used state of the art casting techniques and developed "Thinwall" castings. It was Ford that developed Nodular Iron for cast crankshafts [1951] that GM imitated when the Patent ran out after 17 years, GM called their cast parts "Armisteel" or something to that effect. Rumor has it that it was Ford that designed the Small block Chevy engine for GM as they had no light weight low priced V8 engine to replace the old inline 6 that powered Chevys for years. Ford designed 2 V8 engines in the very early 50s, one for domestic passenger car use and the other for world distribution for cars and light trucks. Ford felt the 'SBC' design was not strong enough for use in trucks and meet the demands of use in South America, Europe and Asia they decided to sell the light weight version. When that decision was made to keep the "World" engine the other design was offered to and sold to GM. Bullshit you say? Maybe, but consider this: early 265 V8s in Chevys had no part numbers on the block and heads and manifold, the oil filter was the same bypass type used on Flatheads, GM did not use any thinwall casting tecniques that were employed in the 1st Chevy V8s, but Ford did and called their thinwall castings "Precision Molding" All other GM castings were much more primitive at that time. Look at the way Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac and Pontiac engines were cast, quite primitive. I could say the SBC was the 1st low priced GM engine to use a full pressure oiling as the Stovebolt 6 used "dipper" rods and a oil tray in the pan to lube the poured babbit bearings, but I won't. The SBC uses a similar firing order as the Flathead if you account for the difference in cylinder numbering. This all may be bullshit but there were people that swear this is true but are no longer alive to confirm. This was taken from an article written by a Automotive journalist that interviewed a former Ford employee that claims to did some of the design work of the "Lightweight passenger car engine" that Ford sold. Now before you Chevy guys start having heart palpatations and blather that Zora Argus Duntov[sp] was the creator of the SBC consider this: He designed a beautiful set of Hemi heads for the Flathead Ford and they were called Ardun heads so there may have been a connection with Ford and GM thru him. Most old-timers remember the famous memo sent to the GM president from Duntov on how to steal the "Youth Market" from Ford as GM was severly lacking in a low priced exciting car that the youth was using to hotrod. Perhaps GM exectutives listened and acted when oppertunity knocked.

[Warp Speed]

Glad to see youy finally admit it:D Since you are a NASCAR guy,
lets talk about NASCAR....Ford has the only engine that resembles a true passenger car engine, does the Chevy? Hardly, it looks more like a Ford than ever before. Lets look for the distributor, where is it? ....Oh there it is in the front, just like a Ford...Where is the fuel pump? Is it where you normally can find the fuel pump on a Chevy? ...oh, look its on the left side, just like the Ford. Heads....hummm they look more like a Yates Ford head that any typical Chevy, symetrical ports and all...Care to talk about chassis? The front suspension is a direct design from the 65 Galaxie no matter what sheet metal is on the car. The transmissions are all direct decendents from the Ford Toploader be it a Jerico or a Liberty. And lets not forget what rearends are under all the cars....what are they??...9" Ford rearends.:D May I remind you of the Chevy/Illmore problem, or are you familar with that? Let me refresh your memory....The Chevy was down on power and not competitive so they had a Ford Company [Cosworth] redesign the engine to make it competitive. Just because Ford isn't winning races now means nothing, every car co. struggles from time to time and since the Ford NASCAR engine is the oldest and closest to a true production engine on the race track it may be time to upgrade it, but you know the old saying "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery". I'm glad I've had this oppertunity to enlighten you. Come back any time for another lesson.:D
I'm back for another lesson, but it is apparent I won't learn much from you! :D
I'll give you the distributor placement. ;)
Fuel pump location?? There is no provision for a fuel pump (just thought I would enlighten you)
Heads, very different, and not simmetrical (just thought I would enlighten you again)
Front suspension being a Galaxie design??? Been a long time since you looked at one of these cars, but I can tell by the rest of your info your living in the past.
Most teams prefer a T-101 (based on a BW t-10 trans) because it is just as strong and more efficient.
You are going to have to refresh my memory about the Cosworth deal, as I don't remember them doing anything for us, let alone redesigning the engine. I damn sure know it didn't happen with the new engine because we developed it from the ground up (actualy 2 versions, the RTP-4 and the RO7) Both designed and developed by GM racing and the engineering staff of top Chevy teams.
In my original post (and against my better jugement as these are no win threads because it is all what you do with pieces, not who made them) I wasn't refering to NASCAR, but all other forms of motorsports. But since you brought it up, I think we spanked everybody's ass last year with an engine design that had been around since 1955. Distributor in the rear, fuel pump in factory mount and all. :jawdrop:
Like I said, I wasn't refering to NASCAR, but all other types of motorsports. You die hard Ford guy's always talk about having superior stuff, so you should win constantly. Us little broke chevy guy's with our inferior pieces shouldn't even be close. So when you get your ass whipped (not in NASCAR) what is your excuse?? And if you don't think it ever happens, you need to crawl out from your parents basement sometime and join us in the 21st century!! :idea: :D
Maybe you should get back to work on the vehicle of your choice, cause we damn sure know it can't be for lack of power, you have the superior piece. But even with superior design and power output, we still "Whip That Ass" on a consistant basis. What's up with that!! :confused:
Warp Speed :D

[Warp Speed]

i agree 100% my bbf sj towed in alot of bbc's :D that qualifies them as haulin shit and a tug boat at the same time right?lmao :D :D miss runnin a bbf, they stay on the water more than the trailer :idea: chevy's are alittle cheaper to build, i'll give you that. when peeps break alot of parts, company's mass produce em, makes the part cheaper;)
You should be building a BBF then, what's stopping ya? :confused:
A couple of buck's, that's no excuse!! :)
Warp Speed :D

[Warp Speed]

Only when they were truly STOCK cars.... I think Chevy claims "most stock car wins" in the Modern Era.....WTF is the "modern era"? When Ironhead Earnhart started winning? How convenent, Or when GM decided the "Modern era" started? I don't think a FWD Lumina or FWD Monte Carlo qualifys as a REAL stock car...especially since there is nothing more that a limp anemic V6 available in the Lumina and Monte Carlo. Wonder why GM was such a loser in the real "Stock Car" period of 62 thru 70 when you could accually purchase a competitive car off the showroom floor that could be raced with nothing more that a 8 point cage and a set of floating axles.....but then the GM cars could not compete in that arena even with Bill France in the back pocket of GM.....Hello!!.....Hey Warp Speed....what say you now? Or are you too young to remember REAL stock cars.:D
No, I'm old enough to remember the early days. Ford and Chrysler owned the racing world. Unfortunatly, that is all you guy's have to fall back on. And don't get me wrong, it is something to be proud of. But instead of thanking all the brilliant Ford guy's of the time, you should be thanking the "bean counters" that ran GM then. Duntov and the boy's were forced to destroy more cool race engines than Ford or Chrysler ever produced. The "bean counters" that ran everything back then didn't see any advantage to racing in the market place (morons). So we got to sit back with our hands tied and watch the domination.
As Zora said "if it wasn't for the Chevy bean counters, the Cobra would have never been a threat".
Unfortunatly, bean counters present, Cobra dominates. Same thing for the early stock car era.
And it wasn't NASCAR being in GM's back pocket that ended the hayday of the Hemi-Boss-Cammer era, it was lack of good tires, too high speeds (no such thing!!) and fan safety that brought that to an end. Not to mention the FED regulations that killed performance cars of the era for ever.
And no, I don't think that the Lumina, the FWD Monte ect. are "real stock cars" but neither were the Taurus, Fusion or any of the others that have been used since the late eighties, regardless of make.
So keep talking about the "early day's", but they are gone forever. :confused:
Warp Speed :D

[Warp Speed]

Damn 058...you stole my thunder. I always love to "enlighten" a Chebby guy when it comes to NASCAR. It took GM a LONG time to catch up with Ford's total domination of the superspeedway. As high tech as everything has gotten, Ford's engine still represents the basic Windsor block with a Cleveland style head. The Chevy engine has zero in common with any production engine GM ever built.
As far as NHRA, there's a blatant bias in favor of GM products, as well as in the magazines and racing media.
Lets face it...any idiot (no offense to anyone) can go to Pep Boys and build a hot rod Chevy. You have to know a little more about what you're doing to build a hot rod Ford. On the sportsman level, the pricing and parts availability is about even now days, but lets remember this. It was in the early 80's that performance anything from Detroit was a thing of the past, and the performance aftermarket was dying a slow mizerable death. That was untill Ford introduced the "new" mustang, with, factory forged pistons, tube headers, a true dual exhaust, aluminum intake, and a Holley four barrel. They soon had the first factory roller cam, first 5 spd tranas, and it wasn't long before fuel injection appeared. Ford, with that car, single handedly resurrected the aftermarket industry and a new interest in Performance cars from Detroit. The Mustang Camaro wars soon began again, but GM didn't get it, and the Camaro and Firebird soon became such pieces of junk that no one would buy them. Ford, on the other hand, kept a close eye on what their customers were asking for, and were true to their loyalists, continuing the trend with the Mustang, and the latest S197 design was the best one yet. Chevy still dosen't get it, as far as I can tell, with the new Camaro. It just dosen't look like a Camaro.
And how many years has the F150 been the no. one selling vehicle in the world?? How long has Ford dominated off road racing? And how ablout road racing? Look back at SCCA and see how long Ford dominated those classes.
Key words are "Look back".
Well, Ford needs to start looking forward, cause that's were the competition is these days!! (both foreign and domestic)
Boy, if that comment isn't setting up an ASS WHIPPIN by Ford next year I don't know what is!! :redface:
Warp Speed :D

[Warp Speed]

Funny you mention IHRA.....thats a subject the Chevy guys would rather forget..... They crow about NHRA and the 500" limit and the 9.2" deck height and how GM dominates the class...bring it up and they grow wood.....guess every blind squrrel finds a nut once in a while.
IHRA, now that is about the best example of "Nothing is stock or factory"!
That is worse than saying "stock cars". At least in NASCAR, the base engine parts (heads, blocks) are from the factory.
The cars are about as stock too, Decals making the car look lke it was. It is REALLY "all about the teams" in IHRA pro-stock, as almost NONE of the parts are anything from Detroit. Unless that's were they are buying the hunks of billet from.
Which was my point from the get go, it is all about who is working on them, cause everybody has the access to the same parts these day's.
Now quit bragging about your favorite brand (doesn't matter which) and get to work on putting them up front again!
Warp Speed :D

[2manymustangs]

Doesnt Ford still hold the most wins in NASCAR history?
Let's just pretend for a second that the NASCAR sanctioning body would have let the 427 cammer run on the big ovals... Hemi would just be another insult.
Lest we not forget the old ford truck engines that cleaned house at Lemans in the 60's driving the GT40's. They were FE's (stands for ford EDSEL) and the import boyz still couldnt hang. Those were truly ford production engine castings...

[IMPATIENT 1]

You should be building a BBF then, what's stopping ya? :confused:
A couple of buck's, that's no excuse!! :)
Warp Speed :D
the tx-19 i bought came with a bbc, and i've been kiciking myself ever since i bought it for not yanking the fresh 11 to 1 bbf outta my sj and making a swap between the 2 boats before i sold the sj;)

[Blown 472]

No, I'm old enough to remember the early days. Ford and Chrysler owned the racing world. Unfortunatly, that is all you guy's have to fall back on. And don't get me wrong, it is something to be proud of. But instead of thanking all the brilliant Ford guy's of the time, you should be thanking the "bean counters" that ran GM then. Duntov and the boy's were forced to destroy more cool race engines than Ford or Chrysler ever produced. The "bean counters" that ran everything back then didn't see any advantage to racing in the market place (morons). So we got to sit back with our hands tied and watch the domination.
As Zora said "if it wasn't for the Chevy bean counters, the Cobra would have never been a threat".
Unfortunatly, bean counters present, Cobra dominates. Same thing for the early stock car era.
And it wasn't NASCAR being in GM's back pocket that ended the hayday of the Hemi-Boss-Cammer era, it was lack of good tires, too high speeds (no such thing!!) and fan safety that brought that to an end. Not to mention the FED regulations that killed performance cars of the era for ever.
And no, I don't think that the Lumina, the FWD Monte ect. are "real stock cars" but neither were the Taurus, Fusion or any of the others that have been used since the late eighties, regardless of make.
So keep talking about the "early day's", but they are gone forever. :confused:
Warp Speed :D
And how many chebbys are dominating the super stock ranks these days?

[Warp Speed]

OK, i'm gonna put this whole Ford vs Chevy to rest now. I'll start with Ford designing the 1st low cost single casting V8 block in 1932. There had been V8s before but only high priced cars with multiple piece cast block assemblys. It was Ford engineers that figured how to properly balance a V8 engine and use the firing order to equalize bearing loads. It was Ford that designed the 1st 180 deg intake manifold for equal fuel distribution. It was Ford that used state of the art casting techniques and developed "Thinwall" castings. It was Ford that developed Nodular Iron for cast crankshafts [1951] that GM imitated when the Patent ran out after 17 years, GM called their cast parts "Armisteel" or something to that effect. Rumor has it that it was Ford that designed the Small block Chevy engine for GM as they had no light weight low priced V8 engine to replace the old inline 6that powered Chevys for years. Ford designed 2 V8 engines in the very early 50s, one for domestic passenger car use and the other for world distribution for cars and light trucks. Ford felt the 'SBC' design was not strong enough for use in trucks and meet the demands of use in South America, Europe and Asia they decided to sell the light weight version. When that decision was made to keep the "World" engine the other design was offered to and sold to GM. Bullshit you say? Maybe, but consider this: early 265 V8s in Chevys had no part numbers on the block and heads and manifold, the oil filter was the same bypass type used on Flatheads, GM did not use any thinwall casting tecniques that were employed in the 1st Chevy V8s, but Ford did and called their thinwall castings "Precision Molding" All other GM castings were much more primitive at that time. Look at the way Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac and Pontiac engines were cast, quite primitive. I could say the SBC was the 1st low priced GM engine to use a full pressure oiling as the Stovebolt 6 used "dipper" rods and a oil tray in the pan to lube the poured babbit bearings, but I won't. The SBC uses a similar firing order as the Flathead if you account for the difference in cylinder numbering. This all may be bullshit but there were people that swear this is true but are no longer alive to confirm. This was taken from an article written by a Automotive journalist that interviewed a former Ford employee that claims to did some of the design work of the "Lightweight passenger car engine" that Ford sold. Now before you Chevy guys start having heart palpatations and blather that Zora Argus Duntov[sp] was the creator of the SBC consider this: He designed a beautiful set of Hemi heads for the Flathead Ford and they were called Ardun heads so there may have been a connection with Ford and GM thru him. Most old-timers remember the famous memo sent to the GM president from Duntov on how to steal the "Youth Market" from Ford as GM was severly lacking in a low priced exciting car that the youth was using to hotrod. Perhaps GM exectutives listened and acted when oppertunity knocked.
It'll take allot more than any of us can do to ever put this to rest, as it has been going on for as long as there has been the nameplates. Allot sharper guy's than any of us have tried to do so both on and off the race track for years and it hasn't worked. That is what has driven the evolution of the american performance/race engine.
So don't flatter your self 058 :D
I know for a fact the "Ford designed the small block chevy" is nothing more than a conspiracy theory started because Zora had relations with Ford pryor to going to work for GM, but Ford was "too smart" to listen to him (maybe a little too smart at the time, can you imagine what Shelby and Duntov could have done together?!?) about the hemi and other things so he got frustrated and parted way's.
Shortly after him landing at GM on the Corvette side (hell ya GM was lost back then, our flagship sports car had a straight six in it!) is when the design phase started on the small block, and he "assisted" Ed Cole and a group of other young engineers (one of whom I know) on the design and development of the new engine.
The first one's had no oil filter, or provisions for one, and the late (early one's) had the type that was the most tried and true of the time (better stuff being developed and used by others at the time, but we're still learnin').
Zora was instrumental in showing GM the "performance side" and how valuable it was to sales both present and future. Still, the front office kept there hands tied so they weren't able to do what they wanted to do so success was little when it came to the mid to late 60's performance day's as we know them. The success we had was from Zora, Smokey and variouse other individuals that presented their "what if" ideas to GM and the race track at the same time. Unfortunatly they were always shot down by the "Bean Counter" mentality and back ground of the upper brass at the time, there for it was short lived and spuratic, but there none the less.
The same goes for today. Ford was given the opportunity to submit a new engine design this year in NASCAR. It wasn't because the old engine isn't competative (The old small block Chev still winning races and championships also) but because Chrysler, and now Toyota had came back in the fray, and were given basic guidlines for dimensions and such, but otherwise a clean sheet of paper to design their new "stock car" engine with (and man has learned a thing or two in the last 50 years about manufacturing and race engine design!). NASCAR thought it only fair that GM and Ford should be allowed the same luxury. Ford worked on a new piece, and spent allot of time and money doing it, but withdrew thinking that the teams had enough change to work with due to the release of the new "Car of Tomorrow" :( (slumping sales by all american car company's and other financial woes played into it as well, along with maybe wanting to see what we did also).
GM on the other hand (they do catch on!) feels the performance part is bigger than ever in the US market, and we need to go as hard as we can if we were going to keep up with the forein manufacturer's onslaught (both American racing as we know it, and car and truck sales). So we worked night and day to develope the new engine, and the new car, and all other related systems. What happened? We stomped everybodie's ass all year (remember the 60's? we do!!). :D We actualy broke records dating back to 1953!!!
And believe me, NASCAR didn't give us nothin as they had the microscope on EVERYBODY this year!!! (especialy our teams)
If you look back, it was almost like in the 60's when a manufacturer came out with one of their secret super engine's, and domination ensued. But today, it isn't all about the engine anymore. I wish I could say it was all engine :D but it is more about the people working on them, the people working on the vehicles they go in (cirlce car, drag car, road race, boat, tractor pull ect.) and the support they have, beit the front office of your race team, the front office of your chosen manufacterer or vendor.
I've built plenty of Fords, worked for and had success with Jack Roush but my heart has always been with Chevy's since falling in love with my older brothers '64 Corvette when I was about seven.
Brand loyalty is up to what you like and everybody is different.
As I said in my first post in this thread (and I try to stay out of these vs. ones) Quit whinning about rules (yes, I know they are there but everybodie has the same ones) and bragging about yester year and start working on you shit. We just gave you a heapin' helpin' of what you are bragging about! And that goes for any racing venue.
Remember Pearl Harbor? One of the most well thought out and executed attacks in the history of confrontation. Caught us all sleeping and resting on our laurels.
That is until their plan of attack on the US auto market mature's, then the Harbor attack may take second place
We all had better get to work and quit whinning about this and that (too much anyway :D ) before Toyota decides to go drag racing also!!!
I would say class dissmissed to ya 058, but I'm not smart enough to teach anyone much, especialy not you. Just an observation by a racer!
Damn, what too much sleep will do!
Warp Speed :D

[Warp Speed]

And how many chebbys are dominating the super stock ranks these days?
I'm sorry 472...........did you say something???? :sleeping:
Warp Speed :D

[Blown 472]

I'm sorry 472...........did you say something???? :sleeping:
Warp Speed :D
Typical chebby owner, hemi dominates super stock, top fuel, funny car etc etc, but hey you can buy cheap shit parts.

[058]

Damn Warp, ya burning up the keyboard this morning.:D Nuthun like a little friendly discourse to stave off the winter boredom. Your points are well taken as I hope you take mine. In all seriousness I will never badmouth the Chevy, it is a good product but there is other products out there that are as good. This is for the guys that think the sun rises and sets on...._____ you fill in the blank. I gotta correct you on one point though, I don't type this stuff from my parent's basement. They died many years ago and I'm close to retirement age but its nice of you to think of me as a young whippersnapper, almost as good as getting carded when I buy beer.:D but that hasn't happen in over 40 years.

[steelcomp]

Key words are "Look back".
Well, Ford needs to start looking forward, cause that's were the competition is these days!! (both foreign and domestic)
Boy, if that comment isn't setting up an ASS WHIPPIN by Ford next year I don't know what is!! :redface:
Warp Speed :DWarp, you're dedicated and delusional, and I lke that. :D
So all you can say about what I wrote above is about my "look back" comment? Well, that's all any of us have to go on is past history, so yes, my point is look back at the dominance and winning records. It takes history to establish a champion, not just a few lucky years in a few lucky venues. Ford has always been an underdog to GM, yet they've handed GM their ass over the years more times than GM's handed Ford theirs. Like I said, the currrent Ford NASCAR engine still represents the basic windsor/Cleveland design, but your 7th, 8th, 19th, and 35th generation (or however many) GM NASCAR engine isn't anything close to anything "production" that GM offers. Keep trying, though.
The pendulem always swings. Once in a while it swings far enough in your direction to warrant some credit, so enjoy it while it lasts. :D
Oh, and as far as bean counters, I think it was Ford that completely dropped out of racing for how many years??? You think maybe that has something to do with what ever advantage you guys might have?
It's pretty much the reason the aftermarket and racing industry is so dominated (in numbers) by Chevy. Imagine to your dismay if you will, what it would be like if Ford had continued racing through the years.
I think Ford has proven throughout the years that when they wanted to come out and race, they'd do it, and do it with an unmistakeably successful and dominant presence, the underdog that they are.
That's why I've always liked Ford.

[IMPATIENT 1]

imagine if bbfs had the option of a million different head designs, intakes, pistons. how about a cheaper 4340 bbf crankshafts,blower intakes,etc.. this wouldn't even make a good conversation if they did ;)

[Jetaholic]

imagine if bbfs had the option of a million different head designs, intakes, pistons. how about a cheaper 4340 bbf crankshafts,blower intakes,etc.. this wouldn't even make a good conversation if they did ;)
Yeah...Fords might actually stand a chance! :D

[Hass828]

The truth about a Ford (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php/topic,2071.0.html)
Pics don't lie...
LOL :D :) :D thats normal wear&tear for a FORD

[Hass828]

imagine if bbfs had the option of a million different head designs, intakes, pistons. how about a cheaper 4340 bbf crankshafts,blower intakes,etc.. this wouldn't even make a good conversation if they did ;)
The only way to get that ford to haul ass until it blows up is to put a set of these heads that I hear they now have with chevy exhaust ports that take chevy headers and all. Oh and throw in a set of chevy rods while your at it.

[steelcomp]

The only way to get that ford to haul ass until it blows up is to put a set of these heads that I hear they now have with chevy exhaust ports that take chevy headers and all. Oh and throw in a set of chevy rods while your at it.Do you really think Chevy ex ports and headers are that much better? Not. What basically started that was Blue Thunder building a head for guys replacing their off shore Chevies with BB Fords and not having to go to the expense of replacing their entire exhaust system along with it. That can get expensive in those boats. Before that it just wasn't cost effective, as much as they wanted to replace the Chev with the Ford knowing how much better of an engine it is. And these are industrial/commercial applications, not performance or racing. The idea cought on, and so it is.
Not too many Chevs running a 6.6" rod, either. Maybe Chev rod journal dia., but that comes from offset grinding the BBF stock cast crank for more stroke. Crank journal dia. isn't exactly a "Chev" innovation.

[Jetaholic]

Why does 7/8's of this board run bbc????
Because ya have to mod the oiling system to get them to withstand extended high RPM use! :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156005&highlight=Oil+Pumps
Read this thread

[Hass828]

Do you really think Chevy ex ports and headers are that much better? Not. What basically started that was Blue Thunder building a head for guys replacing their off shore Chevies with BB Fords and not having to go to the expense of replacing their entire exhaust system along with it. That can get expensive in those boats. Before that it just wasn't cost effective, as much as they wanted to replace the Chev with the Ford knowing how much better of an engine it is. And these are industrial/commercial applications, not performance or racing. The idea cought on, and so it is.
Not too many Chevs running a 6.6" rod, either. Maybe Chev rod journal dia., but that comes from offset grinding the BBF stock cast crank for more stroke. Crank journal dia. isn't exactly a "Chev" innovation.
You damn right I know that chevy d port exhaust ports will flow a hell of a lot better that ford cj ex ports. and I fully understand that fords are industrial/commercial engines, not for raceing , hence not very much in the aftermarket for them.

[steelcomp]

You damn right I know that chevy d port exhaust ports will flow a hell of a lot better that ford cj ex ports. and I fully understand that fords are industrial/commercial engines, not for raceing , hence not very much in the aftermarket for them.So you're saying that the ports they put in the Ford heads with the chev. bolt pattern are "chevy" ports? LOL...that's rich. And you're going to compare a racing-only aluminum head chev D port to a production cast iron ford head? Whatever it takes, I guess. Why not compare it to the Boss 429 head? Well, I guess ignorance is bliss...;) :D
If you understood anything about rod ratio you'd understand more about the differences between the Ford and chev. ports and heads.

[Hass828]

So you're saying that the ports they put in the Ford heads with the chev. bolt pattern are "chevy" ports? LOL...that's rich. And you're going to compare a racing-only aluminum head chev D port to a production cast iron ford head? Whatever it takes, I guess. Why not compare it to the Boss 429 head? Well, I guess ignorance is bliss...;) :D
If you understood anything about rod ratio you'd understand more about the differences between the Ford and chev. ports and heads.
well there damn sure not ford ports. And I know all about the rod ratio thing, I like to run as long of a rod as possible also, but Ive never seen anyone blow up from having to short of a rod in an engine. Some of the really large ,really powerful engines have a horrible rod ratio. I'm not arguing the rod ratio thing with you because I agree to run as long of a rod as you can get in there and still stay out of the oil ring ,and have a strong ring pack. The only reason fords have a tall enough block to run that 6.7-6.8 rod is that they had to find a way to make that piece of junk weigh so much more than a chevy:)

[Sleeper CP]

The only reason fords have a tall enough block to run that 6.7-6.8 rod is that they had to find a way to make that piece of junk weigh so much more than a chevy:)
Hey now.......that is not nice. I may have to put the 512" Ford back together just to prove a point...........:idea:
( 512" = .080 4.44 x 4.14 off-set ground stock crank )
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[Hass828]

Hey now.......that is not nice. I may have to put the 512" Ford back together just to prove a point...........:idea:
( 512" = .080 4.44 x 4.14 off-set ground stock crank )
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D
No offense intended sleeper, I just hate it when these guys want to jump on one band wagon or the other . I actually enjoy building them all, as a matter of fact I just helped my best friend build a 512 with the same combo that you mentioned. It hauled ass but so far every time that he's been to the lake its had to be towed back in for one reason or the other. When you build a motor to the max and cover all of the bases and have good flowing heads and large cid and a good combo for cam & induction they will all run good. The motor doesnt know its a ford or a chevy. I just like to pick at these guys that are one sided. I dont give a damn what it is as long as its fast and it stays together.

[BrendellaJet]

Im a Chevy guy by preference. If I bought a boat and it had a 460 in it, Id build the shiat out of it and run it.

[Sleeper CP]

No offense intended sleeper,
The motor doesnt know its a ford or a chevy. I just like to pick at these guys that are one sided. I dont give a damn what it is as long as its fast and it stays together.
Exactly, I feel the same way . :)
But down deep inside the Chevy engine's wish they were Ford's :D
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[Hass828]

Exactly, I feel the same way . :)
But down deep inside the Chevy engine's wish they were Ford's :D
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D
LOL, fords have chevy envy:)

[steelcomp]

well there damn sure not ford ports. And I know all about the rod ratio thing, I like to run as long of a rod as possible also, but Ive never seen anyone blow up from having to short of a rod in an engine. Some of the really large ,really powerful engines have a horrible rod ratio. I'm not arguing the rod ratio thing with you because I agree to run as long of a rod as you can get in there and still stay out of the oil ring ,and have a strong ring pack. The only reason fords have a tall enough block to run that 6.7-6.8 rod is that they had to find a way to make that piece of junk weigh so much more than a chevy:)
LOL...well they're sure not chevy ports!:D
If you're going to argue a point, know what you're talking about. Really powerful engines that have horrible rod ratios not blowing up?? Those guys are destroying those monster engines right and left and it's 99% becuase of the rod ratio. They have piston speeds exceeding 300'/second. That's just crazy.
I'm mostly a Ford guy, but I'll build anything. I had a 467 in my last boat that was, lets just say, "healthy". :D Certainly not single minded by any means. The benefits that the 385 series Ford has over the BB Chev aren't "opinion", they're just design facts. Like you and sleeper agree, and I do too, the engine dosen't know if it's a Ford or chev. It does know, however, that it has a wider bore spacing, and a better rod ratio... both of which dictate many other benefits, but those are the main two, and those two things alone seperate the two engines in a huge way.

[steelcomp]

No offense intended sleeper, I just hate it when these guys want to jump on one band wagon or the other . I actually enjoy building them all, as a matter of fact I just helped my best friend build a 512 with the same combo that you mentioned. It hauled ass but so far every time that he's been to the lake its had to be towed back in for one reason or the other. When you build a motor to the max and cover all of the bases and have good flowing heads and large cid and a good combo for cam & induction they will all run good. The motor doesnt know its a ford or a chevy. I just like to pick at these guys that are one sided. I dont give a damn what it is as long as its fast and it stays together.LOL...Maybe your friend needs to get someone to help him that's not so one sided. It seems you're as much on a chevy band wagon as anyone here is on a Ford. :idea: Gotta hate that!
Just givin ya a hard time...it's all in fun.:D :D

[cfm]

I think GMPP (GM Performance Parts) has done a terrific job in getting racers and hotrodders mild-wild performance parts at good prices. Add to this, the advertising and reaching out they do also.
572 crate engines.
502 crate engines.
Spec small block race engines.
Oh, now the the LSX platform. Has anyone seen the performance levels of these things and the $$$ they get sold for ? Seen the prices on the L92 heads and the performance potentil out of the box ? Unbelieveable! Really have to give a big kudos to GM for there latest/greatest.
List goes on and on.
Getting these parts to the grass roots people and professional people alike, is what it takes.
=============
This is no disrespect to the other manufacturers by any means. It is my observence and opinion on how well GMPP is placing GM performance into the public eye.

[Sleeper CP]

I think GMPP (GM Performance Parts) has done a terrific job in getting racers and hotrodders mild-wild performance parts at good prices.
List goes on and on.
Getting these parts to the grass roots people and professional people alike, is what it takes.=============
.
Yes, Fords lack of support for the racer and aftermarket in the '70's and '80's was ridiculous. If you want people to use your product's make good pieces available for people.
They finally joined in on the 5.0 stuff after the aftermarket guy's showed them for years that the desire was there. "F"ing bean counter's at Ford and total lack of passion from the board was the problem. If Ford had helped make part's available there would not be near the split % wise.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[Hass828]

LOL...well they're sure not chevy ports!:D
If you're going to argue a point, know what you're talking about. Really powerful engines that have horrible rod ratios not blowing up?? Those guys are destroying those monster engines right and left and it's 99% becuase of the rod ratio. They have piston speeds exceeding 300'/second. That's just crazy.
I'm mostly a Ford guy, but I'll build anything. I had a 467 in my last boat that was, lets just say, "healthy". :D Certainly not single minded by any means. The benefits that the 385 series Ford has over the BB Chev aren't "opinion", they're just design facts. Like you and sleeper agree, and I do too, the engine dosen't know if it's a Ford or chev. It does know, however, that it has a wider bore spacing, and a better rod ratio... both of which dictate many other benefits, but those are the main two, and those two things alone seperate the two engines in a huge way. Then lets look at it another way. Lets look at these two engines in a totally stock form. If that bore spacing and rod ratio were that big of a performance advantage then those stock 460s{which still had the advantage of the spacing and ratio} wouldnt have been such SLUGS. An old stock 8.5 to1 454 would just walk all over one of them. I've owned several of each and I can tell you "NO ADVANTAGE" :idea: I'm a chevy man at heart but I'm not saying that a ford wont run , I'm just telling you dont go adding up all of those positives cause they also have some negatives to, Like cylinder head sealing sucks [to few bolts, no matter how big they are], weak mains[ever seen a main girdle on a chevy?]. We'll just leave the girdles for you girlly ford guys to wear around. :) :D Just funnin with ya , run what you want but dont go thinking that your brand doesnt have its weaknesses

[steelcomp]

Yes, Fords lack of support for the racer and aftermarket in the '70's and '80's was ridiculous. If you want people to use your product's make good pieces available for people.
They finally joined in on the 5.0 stuff after the aftermarket guy's showed them for years that the desire was there. "F"ing bean counter's at Ford and total lack of passion from the board was the problem. If Ford had helped make part's available there would not be near the split % wise.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:DA big part of it wasn't the fact that GM was producing performance parts, and Ford wasn't, it was that GM was backing racers, and Ford wasn't. If no one's racing a Ford, there's no reason for the aftermarket to produce parts for one. The aftermarket industry is driven by what wins on Sunday.
Ford was building the highest HP crate motors you could buy for quite a while, and long before Chevy was, but they were so far off the curve, no one cared. The SVO program had all kinds of performance crate engines from aluminum headed roller cam's 5.0L's to 600". The 385hp 351 windsor came with aluminum heads, a singel plane Motorsport intake, big hyd. falt tappet cam, roller rockers, HD rods, and was the highest HP small block crate engine available. The 460 CJ was 535 hp and had all the same as the 351...alum heads, single plane intake, .614" lift cam, etc. They even had a 600" short block assy (4.600 bore X 4.500 str.) available with aluminum rods, forged steel crank, SVO block w/ roller cam bearings, forged domed pistons, etc. This was back in '89, and the Motorsport catalogue was nothing but Ford's hardcore racing parts available to the public, including the E460 head, and the Boss 429 B441 head. Hell, they even sold (sell) a billet, in line 6cyl head that Alan Johnson makes, the M-6049-149.

[Sleeper CP]

Steel,
All of that is true but in the 70's and to the early 80's Ford didn't support
racing at all they didn't do jack to capitalize off of Glidden or Elliot and the SVO stuff should have been to the market 10 yrs earlier if not more. They couldn't produce a Cobra Jet 429 block and a good set of smblk or Bgblk heads? If you wanted a Hi-Po Ford part your best bet was FordPower parts for used stuff unless you could afford "Pro-Stock Paul" from Pro-Stock Engineering.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:D

[steelcomp]

Steel,
All of that is true but in the 70's and to the early 80's Ford didn't support
racing at all they didn't do jack to capitalize off of Glidden or Elliot and the SVO stuff should have been to the market 10 yrs earlier if not more. They couldn't produce a Cobra Jet 429 block and a good set of smblk or Bgblk heads? If you wanted a Hi-Po Ford part your best bet was FordPower parts for used stuff unless you could afford "Pro-Stock Paul" from Pro-Stock Engineering.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover:DI know, I know...that's why Ford was so far behind in the aftermarket. Not so, any more. :D

[058]

Then lets look at it another way. Lets look at these two engines in a totally stock form. If that bore spacing and rod ratio were that big of a performance advantage then those stock 460s{which still had the advantage of the spacing and ratio} wouldnt have been such SLUGS. An old stock 8.5 to1 454 would just walk all over one of them. I've owned several of each and I can tell you "NO ADVANTAGE" :idea: I'm a chevy man at heart but I'm not saying that a ford wont run , I'm just telling you dont go adding up all of those positives cause they also have some negatives to, Like cylinder head sealing sucks [to few bolts, no matter how big they are], weak mains[ever seen a main girdle on a chevy?]. We'll just leave the girdles for you girlly ford guys to wear around. :) :D Just funnin with ya , run what you want but dont go thinking that your brand doesnt have its weaknessesWeak mains? You don't know much about Fords, do you? Its apparent you don't by some of the statements you are making....Cylinder head sealing? no cookie for you on this one either, 4 bolts per cylinder seals just fine, thank you. I've seen more Chevys with cylinder head sealing problems than Fords especially when you toss in the bolt hole/water jacket problem and don't forget the deck cracking problem all stock BBC blocks seem to have. One thing you are correct on....no engine is perfect, they all have their weaknesses but if you are going to blather about the weaknesses of Fords at least know what you are talking about.:idea:

[Hass828]

Weak mains? You don't know much about Fords, do you? Its apparent you don't by some of the statements you are making....Cylinder head sealing? no cookie for you on this one either, 4 bolts per cylinder seals just fine, thank you. I've seen more Chevys with cylinder head sealing problems than Fords especially when you toss in the bolt hole/water jacket problem and don't forget the deck cracking problem all stock BBC blocks seem to have. One thing you are correct on....no engine is perfect, they all have their weaknesses but if you are going to blather about the weaknesses of Fords at least know what you are talking about.:idea:
If you think 4 bolts per cylinder is enough then you've never made enough cylinder pressure to make hp for sh-t. And if your going to BLATHER it would be good to know what your talking about,gm performance blocks dont have the head bolts into the water jacket and i've never seen one with a cracked deck.Those are " some " of the weeknesses of the ford and I have witnessed them personally. So go ahead and blather on

[058]

So I suppose the GM Performance blocks are like Fords with blind head bolt holes. Trouble is you have to buy a over-the-counter block for this feature as the stock BBC does not have this. And if you need all those little 7/16" head bolts to keep gaskets in your engine then it is you that should learn something about making horsepower. Since you are in the mood to blather tell me of these weak mains you seem to know so much about?

[steelcomp]

If you think 4 bolts per cylinder is enough then you've never made enough cylinder pressure to make hp for sh-t. And if your going to BLATHER it would be good to know what your talking about,gm performance blocks dont have the head bolts into the water jacket and i've never seen one with a cracked deck.Those are " some " of the weeknesses of the ford and I have witnessed them personally. So go ahead and blather onHass... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I'm just curious as to what the most HP YOU'VE ever made, 'cause you're really starting to sound like you don't know WTF you're talking about. :sqeyes:

[Hass828]

tell me of these weak mains you seem to know so much about?
Have you ever ran a main girdle in your ford? Why?

[Hass828]

Hass... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I'm just curious as to what the most HP YOU'VE ever made, 'cause you're really starting to sound like you don't know WTF you're talking about. :sqeyes:
Plenty, and all I am speaking of are the facts if you boys cant handle the truth then maybe you should start a thread called Ford peeps only. How much hp per cid have you made ?

[058]

Have you ever ran a main girdle in your ford? Why?
No

[Hass828]

No
What are they for? why are they out there?

[Blown 472]

Perhaps Lakes could tell us about his buddies nitro burning stock block and crank, cast crank ford that ran on nitro??? how many chivys have done that?

[058]

What are they for? why are they out there?To make idiots like you ask stupid questions.

[Hass828]

Perhaps Lakes could tell us about his buddies nitro burning stock block and crank, cast crank ford that ran on nitro??? how many chivys have done that?
rather ask why?

[Hass828]

To make idiots like you ask stupid questions.
More likely to add some more weight to the boat anchor:devil:

[Placecraft Dragstar]

Hass I am glade that its not just me that you get along with so well. :D