"Import" cars and trucks...

[Froggystyle]

I didn't want to defile the Pearl Harbor threads with a jacking about import vehicles, but wanted to address a post... So, here it is for anyone who wants to get down with it...
Could you imagine how all those men would feel if they saw all the people in America driving around hondas?? its disgusting.
I know a ton of WWII vets, and the vast majority of them drive import cars. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Honda, Toyota etc...
In additon to being a great compass for us from a hard work, honor and integrity perspective, I think that their generation regards value highly. Hence the import vehicle purchases.
I have owned only domestic vehicles my whole life. I have held the title on over 40 vehicles myself, and every single one of them was a Dodge or Chevy, save two huge Ford mistakes. With what is out there right now, the best vehicle for my needs was a Toyota. Didn't even occur to me that I was buying an import. Most of it was built here after all.
I think that if we want to start building vehicles with the styling, features, performance, economy and value of the Japanese imports, people may buy them.
One of the guys who works for me just bought a new Honda hybrid and I have gotten to ride in it a couple of times. I also took a new Chevy "Cobalt" for a ride recently.
No comparison. The Chevy is trying, but when American manufacturers try to build an import competitor, they ususally mess it up in my opinion. Maybe we suck at making plastic look nice, or maybe we don't do as good of a job of designing in the first place or something, but plastic interiors in imports seem a lot nicer than plastic interiors in domestics.
Within a couple of days of ownership, I had the interior of the FJ stripped down to parade rest. Amazingly, all of the clips that hold the interior on are not only reuseable, but they are replaceable. Lots of stuff is physically attached by screws with covers, and many things are really easy to work on. Complete contrast to the domestic credo of "if you ever have to pull this part again you are screwed".
I am becoming a convert. I am just getting done with a lease for Audrey's BMW 5 series, and she is getting an Infinity G35 next. Truck is sold, so there are no domestics in the family any more. But even when I had my 2500HD, the engine (by far the best part) was a Japanese engine... Hopefully, my next vehicle will be a Ferrari, so that will be imported too. I only buy imported motorcycles. Ducati, Yamaha and Suzuki in particular.
Does anyone really hold that much racial bigotry anymore that they consider a Japanese vehicle supporting our enemies?

[BowTie Rick]

I wouldn't buy a Mitsubishi. :D
http://www.archives.gov/education/history-day/bright-ideas/images/nagasaki.gif

[Cole Trickle]

A car is a car.
I have only owned one import since I started driving (Civic Hatch in HS that ended up being a peice)
There are certain things I look for in a car. Value, performance, RWD and looks. So far there really isn't a import car in my price range that meets those criterias.
I think Hondas and Toyotas are great cars and they serve there purpose. I have almost pulled the trigger on both a V6 Accord and Acura TL. When it came down to it I didn't prefer the ride, handling and Tq steer standard on a 240+ hp FWD ride.
Toyotas really don't appeal to me (I like the new Tundra and the old Supra) because of there ultra conservative styling and bland performance. Most Toyota owners buy that car drive it for 150K miles and then replace it with the same thing.
If I was looking for a track day car for Jen and had the budget I would throw her into a Evo over anything on the planet. Alot of bang for the buck
High end Euros like MBZ,BMW and Jag do little for me. I appreciate the high end big HP cars but the under 75K variants are imho glorified money pitts with zero bang for the buck and sub par performance.
on the other hand if I was jewish or had family invloved in the hollocaust I probably would never ever look at a mbz or bmw.(War is war but hate is hate)

[hkunz]

I'd say some do look at it that way, but not all any more. Think about it, anyone who is voting for the first time next election only knows of the Gulf War from history books. Vietnam and WWII are ancient history for them.

[sangervdrive]

Imagine there were a world war III and the sides were similar to the sides in WWII.
If we had to start converting factories over to wartime production what do you think Hyndai and Honda and Mitsu ect. would do? I doubt they would help us. I am a manufacturing student and have some extremely knowlegable chinese proffesors and they say that in China and Japan they laugh at us becuase we buy the sh*t that they don't even want. Their whole goal is to make us think we need something so we then buy it.
Look at all the 9 axis CNCs and stuff. No company in Japan (generalization) buys machines like that yet many of them make them. In Japan, China companies are taught to make their own specific machines for every purpose yet they sell tons of sophisticated CNCs to Americans becuase we think we need it, THEN when it breaks down where do we go?? The only people that fix it, the people who built it.
We all need to stand up for ourselves and support the companies that supported our country for decades. IMO
BTW call me old fashioned if you want but I'm 23 years old.

[Froggystyle]

Toyotas really don't appeal to me (I like the new Tundra and the old Supra) because of there ultra conservative styling and bland performance. Most Toyota owners buy that car drive it for 150K miles and then replace it with the same thing.
I agree with you on the Supra... but I will go out on a limb here and state for the record that I don't think the FJ is either conservative or bland. I drove one and it pretty much changed whatever opinion I had of them.
Strangely enough, I may never have gone and drove one, but a freind of mine owns one, and I used it to run an errand while in Havasu. After driving it around a little, I came to the conclusion that it was a hell of a lot more truck than I thought it was. Ended up buying one as a result.

[Lightning]

Good points Wes, I would consider import cars before domestic, however when it comes to trucks....it's USA made, no questions asked. They are a lot less cheap looking inside IMO
On another note.... buying a Toyota car is supporting more American jobs vs. buying a Ford Mustang. 60% of Mustang is made in Mexico, 90% of Camry is made in the USA.

[mondorally]

Question for the Boycott the Enemy crowd:
Should we only boycott the Japanese or anyone we've had a war/skirmish/pissing match with? To be fair it should be an all or nothing boycott:idea: .......
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_wars
List of wars involving the United States
1700s
American Revolutionary War, 1775 – 1783
Boston campaign, 1775 - 1776
Canadian Theatre, 1775 - 1776
New York and New Jersey campaign, 1776 - 1777
Saratoga Campaign, 1777
Philadelphia Campaign, 1777 - 1778
Western Theatre, 1775 - 1782
Northern Theater, 1778 - 1781
Southern Theatre, 1775 - 1782
Quasi-War, France, 1798 – 1800
1800s
First Barbary War, 1801 – 1805
War of 1812, 1812 – 1815
Lake Champlain Campaign, 1812 - 1814
Niagara Campaign, 1812 - 1814
Detroit Campaign, 1812 - 1814
Chesapeake Campaign, 1813 - 1814
Creek War, 1813 - 1814
Southern Campaign,
Second Barbary War, 1815
First Seminole War, 1817 - 1818
Second Seminole War, 1835 - 1842
Mexican-American War, 1846 – 1848
Third Seminole War, 1855 - 1858
American Civil War, 1861 – 1865
Union blockade, 1861 - 1865
Eastern Theater, 1861 - 1865
Western Theater, 1861 - 1865
Lower Seaboard Theater, 1861 - 1865
Trans-Mississippi Theater, 1861 - 1865
Pacific Coast Theater, 1863
Korean Expedition, 1871
Spanish-American War, 1898
Philippine Insurrection, 1899 - 1902
1900s
Boxer Rebellion, 1900 - 1902
Mexican Expedition, 1916 - 1917
World War I, 1917 – 1918
European Theatre, 1917 - 1918
First Battle of the Atlantic, 1917 - 1918
Polar Bear Expedition, 1918 - 1919
American Expeditionary Force Siberia, 1918 - 1920
World War II, 1941 – 1945
Second Battle of the Atlantic, 1941 - 1945
Pacific War, 1941 - 1945
African Theatre, 1942 - 1943
European Theatre, 1944 - 1945
Cold War, 1947 - 1990
Korean Conflict, 1950 - 1953
Operation PBFORTUNE, Guatemala, 1952
Operation Ajax, 1953
Operation PBSUCCESS, Guatemala, 1954
Operation Blue Bat, Lebanon, 1958
Bay of Pigs Invasion, Cuba, 1961
Vietnam Conflict, 1962 - 1973
Operation Powerpack, Dominican Republic, 1965 - 1966
Operation Eagle Claw, Iran hostage crisis, 1980
First Gulf of Sidra Incident, 1981
Operation Urgent Fury, Invasion of Grenada, 1983
Operation El Dorado Canyon, Libya, 1986
Iran-Iraq War, 1987 - 1989
Operation Just Cause, Panama 1989 - 1990
Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, 1989
Persian Gulf War, 1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Operation Desert Shield, 1991
Somali Civil War, 1992 - 1994
Operation Provide Relief, 1992
Operation Restore Hope, 1992 - 1994
Yugoslav Wars, 1994 - 1999
Bosnian Conflict, 1994 - 1995
Kosovo Conflict, 1997 - 1999
2000s
War on Terrorism, 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines 2002 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa 2002 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003 - present
Waziristan War, 2004 - present
War in Somalia, 2006 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Trans Sahara 2007 - present

[Lightning]

We all need to stand up for ourselves and support the companies that supported our country for decades. IMO
I'm all for it....as long as they can make stuff that is equal or better in quality.

[catman-do]

Like it was said before, most of the Jap imports are built here anyways. So therefore I AM still supporting our economy! My last Ford was built in Mexico (i believe), so whats that say for buying a Ford....

[RT21]

I didn't want to defile the Pearl Harbor threads with a jacking about import vehicles, but wanted to address a post... So, here it is for anyone who wants to get down with it...
I know a ton of WWII vets, and the vast majority of them drive import cars. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Honda, Toyota etc...
In additon to being a great compass for us from a hard work, honor and integrity perspective, I think that their generation regards value highly. Hence the import vehicle purchases.
I have owned only domestic vehicles my whole life. I have held the title on over 40 vehicles myself, and every single one of them was a Dodge or Chevy, save two huge Ford mistakes. With what is out there right now, the best vehicle for my needs was a Toyota. Didn't even occur to me that I was buying an import. Most of it was built here after all.
I think that if we want to start building vehicles with the styling, features, performance, economy and value of the Japanese imports, people may buy them.
One of the guys who works for me just bought a new Honda hybrid and I have gotten to ride in it a couple of times. I also took a new Chevy "Cobalt" for a ride recently.
No comparison. The Chevy is trying, but when American manufacturers try to build an import competitor, they ususally mess it up in my opinion. Maybe we suck at making plastic look nice, or maybe we don't do as good of a job of designing in the first place or something, but plastic interiors in imports seem a lot nicer than plastic interiors in domestics.
Within a couple of days of ownership, I had the interior of the FJ stripped down to parade rest. Amazingly, all of the clips that hold the interior on are not only reuseable, but they are replaceable. Lots of stuff is physically attached by screws with covers, and many things are really easy to work on. Complete contrast to the domestic credo of "if you ever have to pull this part again you are screwed".
I am becoming a convert. I am just getting done with a lease for Audrey's BMW 5 series, and she is getting an Infinity G35 next. Truck is sold, so there are no domestics in the family any more. But even when I had my 2500HD, the engine (by far the best part) was a Japanese engine... Hopefully, my next vehicle will be a Ferrari, so that will be imported too. I only buy imported motorcycles. Ducati, Yamaha and Suzuki in particular.
Does anyone really hold that much racial bigotry anymore that they consider a Japanese vehicle supporting our enemies?
So, it is now racial bigotry to try and support your countries manufacturing infrastructure?

[sangervdrive]

So, it is now racial bigotry to try and support your countries manufacturing infrastructure?
Exactly, I don't know but if it is racial bigotry so be it.

[Froggystyle]

We all need to stand up for ourselves and support the companies that supported our country for decades. IMO
For example?

[Cole Trickle]

I agree with you on the Supra... but I will go out on a limb here and state for the record that I don't think the FJ is either conservative or bland. I drove one and it pretty much changed whatever opinion I had of them.
Strangely enough, I may never have gone and drove one, but a freind of mine owns one, and I used it to run an errand while in Havasu. After driving it around a little, I came to the conclusion that it was a hell of a lot more truck than I thought it was. Ended up buying one as a result.
I hear ya.
Probably a very nice ride just does absolutely zero for me. I would rather own a jeep wrangler if I was looking for an off road toy because I prefer the styling.
Honestly I think that jeep needs to make a SRT-8 wrangler and sell it for 30k;):jawdrop:

[Cole Trickle]

For example?
Levis......
I bought 2 pairs while on sale tuesday;)

[Froggystyle]

So, it is now racial bigotry to try and support your countries manufacturing infrastructure?
No, it is racial bigotry to condemn a purchase from another country. "Japanese" is a race as well as a citizenship.
And again, I ask... what company is US owned that builds autos in the US out of US goods?
What is the concern, that Americans build it, or that Americans profit from it? Because the two are very different things these days.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

With the exception of a few BMW's and one Acura, I too have been primarily a US owner. Last year I bought a Civic SI and so far it has been a great car. As I recall, the SI was built in Canada. My Son just picked up a new G35S and I was amazed at how much car this thing is. Tight, great fit and finish and quick. More than the power with a 6 cyl to have smoked my Trailblazer SS.
While the Civic has been nice, I have my eye in the new 135 BMW or a G37S 6sp. We'll see how long I can hold out with 200HP :D :D
No issue one way or the other with regard to country of origin. (except I would not buy a car made in China, period)

[sangervdrive]

OK, I'm going on a rant here and I apologize but this issue is hot button to me.
I hate it when people give that stupid arguement about their import being assembled here. Where did the parts come from? How many jobs did that assembly plant really "create"? Where do the big money engineering jobs exist? Where is the big check sent every time you buy an import?? Who reaps the benefits of every import car assembled in the USA??? You can bet its not America.
There are two reasons import manufacturers built facilities in America; Land is relatively cheap/no import costs, and then they could say the cars were built here because they know some Americans have a problem with that.
I understand that some people are simply looking for the car they want and don't care and thats fine they can do whatever, but it still breaks my heart everytime I see an American driving one of those things. No pride, no regard to heritage, no respect to the vets that have died.
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is how trendy imports are, and right or wrong thats how I see it. People only want flashy imports because its a status symbol, gone are the days when a rock star went and bought a black cadillac to cruise to the next gig in. Well, not me I'll stick with the same brands of cars that pulled this country through the great depression, the dust bowl, the Great War and the Korean Conflict.

[Froggystyle]

I hear ya.
Probably a very nice ride just does absolutely zero for me. I would rather own a jeep wrangler if I was looking for an off road toy because I prefer the styling.
Honestly I think that jeep needs to make a SRT-8 wrangler and sell it for 30k;):jawdrop:
For me it was the opposite. I don't like the way the Wrangler looks with 4 doors, and they have never been easy enough to use every day to want one. Plus, you want to talk about flimsy... As a former Scout owner, we used to joke that Jeep stood for "Junk, Each and Every Part" because you had to essentially replace the vehicle to really put the wood to it.

[Cole Trickle]

With the exception of a few BMW's and one Acura, I too have been primarily a US owner. Last year I bought a Civic SI and so far it has been a great car. As I recall, the SI was built in Canada. My Son just picked up a new G35S and I was amazed at how much car this thing is. Tight, great fit and finish and quick. More than the power with a 6 cyl to have smoked my Trailblazer SS.
While the Civic has been nice, I have my eye in the new 135 BMW or a G37S 6sp. We'll see how long I can hold out with 200HP :D :D
No issue one way or the other with regard to country of origin. (except I would not buy a car made in China, period)
It's a sickness:D
At times I wish I had the 6spd for gas on the 60 mile round trip ride. If gas contiunes to rise I will probably be forced to go with a slow reliable import;)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

It's a sickness:D
At times I wish I had the 6spd for gas on the 60 mile round trip ride. If gas contiunes to rise I will probably be forced to go with a slow reliable import;)
And I think I might be terminal. :D

[Froggystyle]

I understand that some people are simply looking for the car they want and don't care and thats fine they can do whatever, but it still breaks my heart everytime I see an American driving one of those things. No pride, no regard to heritage, no respect to the vets that have died.
Thems big words son... You may just consider who you are talking to and the sacrifices they have made to stand a post. You ever stood a watch for your country?
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is how trendy imports are, and right or wrong thats how I see it. People only want flashy imports because its a status symbol, gone are the days when a rock star went and bought a black cadillac to cruise to the next gig in. Well, not me I'll stick with the same brands of cars that pulled this country through the great depression, the dust bowl, the Great War and the Korean Conflict.
Again, which brand specifically? You need to probably do some research on this one to find one that is American owned, purchases it's parts from Americans and had anything to do with the Great Depression, The Dust Bowl or any wars.
What you might find through your jinoistic haze is a reality that our military aircraft now feature japanese electronics and Taiwanese hardware. You will find that we are shooting guns built overseas and most were built using foreign money...
How about you go ask your teacher for some more speaking points and come back later...

[Cole Trickle]

For me it was the opposite. I don't like the way the Wrangler looks with 4 doors, and they have never been easy enough to use every day to want one. Plus, you want to talk about flimsy... As a former Scout owner, we used to joke that Jeep stood for "Junk, Each and Every Part" because you had to essentially replace the vehicle to really put the wood to it.
Agreed the Jeep would be a terrrible everyday driver. I refuse to pay 30K for a car that will sit all but 4 weekends a year. I imagine the FJ is quite comfortable and quiet.
Realisticly I would have a place for either in my stable. We are a 2 car family (GTO, Z71) I could never get rid of a full size truck/suv do to towing and hauling. The GTO is the only thing I could ditch and I would much rather drive that on my commute than a "inbetween" vehicle like a jeep,FJ,Xterra.
When and if I retire and we do the around the US thing in a coach I would have a jeep hooked up behind.

[Cole Trickle]

And I think I might be terminal. :D
__________________________________________________
Flat Line:D :devil:

[Froggystyle]

Agreed the Jeep would be a terrrible everyday driver. I refuse to pay 30K for a car that will sit all but 4 weekends a year. I imagine the FJ is quite comfortable and quiet.
Comfortable, quiet, powerful, nicely trimmed, well equipped for off-road...lockers, traction control etc... This may well turn out to be the best vehicle I have ever owned as a daily driver.
Realisticly I would have a place for either in my stable. We are a 2 car family (GTO, Z71) I could never get rid of a full size truck/suv do to towing and hauling. The GTO is the only thing I could ditch and I would much rather drive that on my commute than a "inbetween" vehicle like a jeep,FJ,Xterra.
Well, your situation is different than mine. Imagine having a tow vehicle for towing that wasn't your daily driver. If you didn't have to tow, what would you own and drive everyday?
When and if I retire and we do the around the US thing in a coach I would have a jeep hooked up behind.
We primarily tow with the toter right now, and I am buying a diesel Chevy van for the shop truck. I can tow with that for small jobs if need be, and it will get truck ownership out of my hair... something I have never liked.

[Froggystyle]

I won't buy a japanese car. I might consider a german or scandanavian import, but it's already a strike against them in my book. No French either.
???? Why one and not the other? The whole genocide thing I would think would turn me more against Germans than the Japanese. Holocaust etc...
And what did the Scandanavians do?
Yeah, I know, global economy, shareholders & dividends, blah, blah, blah.
I curse them every time I have to get out a metric wrench.
I choose to drive an American truck (made in Tennesee). I checked.
So to answer your question, we're out here.
Constructed in Tennessee... Look on the back of most of your parts and you will find "Hecho en Mexico" stamped into them.
My Chevy was primarily metric BTW... I don't think it had a standard fastener on it.

[Baja Big Dog]

OK, I'm going on a rant here and I apologize but this issue is hot button to me.
I hate it when people give that stupid arguement about their import being assembled here. Where did the parts come from? How many jobs did that assembly plant really "create"? Where do the big money engineering jobs exist? Where is the big check sent every time you buy an import?? Who reaps the benefits of every import car assembled in the USA??? You can bet its not America.
Wrong, America does benifit from Jap cars being built here, Americans build them and get paid for building them, and pay taxes on the money they make.
There are two reasons import manufacturers built facilities in America; Land is relatively cheap/no import costs, and then they could say the cars were built here because they know some Americans have a problem with that.
I understand that some people are simply looking for the car they want and don't care and thats fine they can do whatever, but it still breaks my heart everytime I see an American driving one of those things. No pride, no regard to heritage, no respect to the vets that have died.
Pretty deep...No pride? come on, I work hard for my money, and because I choose to make a major purchase like a car, and decide that I want something that is 1; stylish, 2; cost effective, 3;has resale, 4; will last and not be in the shop every other day!,
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is how trendy imports are, and right or wrong thats how I see it. People only want flashy imports because its a status symbol, gone are the days when a rock star went and bought a black cadillac to cruise to the next gig in. Well, not me I'll stick with the same brands of cars that pulled this country through the great depression, the dust bowl, the Great War and the Korean Conflict.
Also gone is .20 cent gas, 5 cent coffee etc

[catman-do]

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is how trendy imports are, and right or wrong thats how I see it. People only want flashy imports because its a status symbol, gone are the days when a rock star went and bought a black cadillac to cruise to the next gig in. Well, not me I'll stick with the same brands of cars that pulled this country through the great depression, the dust bowl, the Great War and the Korean Conflict.
What is just plain WRONG about this part is that most of the "flashy/ trendy" cars that are being driven around today ARE American. Maybe not in the sticks of Iowa, but in the majority of the US the flashy cars are the Escalades, Escalade EXT, STS, 300C, H2, H3, Lifted Trucks (almost all are American), Navigators, E Class MB, CLS MB (in case you didnt know MB is now an American owned company). That statement you just made was plain ignorant. Maybe back in the Fast and Furious days import Honda's ruled, but those days are fading quick and almost completely gone.

[Cole Trickle]

Comfortable, quiet, powerful, nicely trimmed, well equipped for off-road...lockers, traction control etc... This may well turn out to be the best vehicle I have ever owned as a daily driver.
Well, your situation is different than mine. Imagine having a tow vehicle for towing that wasn't your daily driver. If you didn't have to tow, what would you own and drive everyday?
We primarily tow with the toter right now, and I am buying a diesel Chevy van for the shop truck. I can tow with that for small jobs if need be, and it will get truck ownership out of my hair... something I have never liked.
GTO......I make the wifey drive the slow boring truck:D :devil:
If we hit the lottery the Truck will sit and she would get her audi rs4 and I would get the shortly arriving ZL1 vette;)

[Jbb]

I only buy Yugo........

[Froggystyle]

GTO......I make the wifey drive the slow boring truck:D :devil:
If we hit the lottery the Truck will sit and she would get her audi rs4 and I would get the shortly arriving ZL1 vette;)
Precisely. Without the work aspect, most people wouldn't own a truck I have found. I certainly wouldn't. Pure neccessity for me. I hate driving it every day though.
So, you would buy a Nazi car huh? Traitor! :D

[Froggystyle]

I only buy Yugo........
You know what they called the four door variant?

[sangervdrive]

What is just plain WRONG about this part is that most of the "flashy/ trendy" cars that are being driven around today ARE American. Maybe not in the sticks of Iowa, but in the majority of the US the flashy cars are the Escalades, Escalade EXT, STS, 300C, H2, H3, Lifted Trucks (almost all are American), Navigators, E Class MB, CLS MB (in case you didnt know MB is now an American owned company). That statement you just made was plain ignorant. Maybe back in the Fast and Furious days import Honda's ruled, but those days are fading quick and almost completely gone.
I'm sure youre right that it is a regional thing. I never stood post nor did I ever even attempt to incinuate that I had.
I fully realize that I will never win this argument and thats fine. I'll continue on my path regardless.

[sangervdrive]

Also gone is .20 cent gas, 5 cent coffee etc
I disagree the money that gets made through assembling a toyota camry is minute in the grand scheme its not even funny. thats why they can afford to assemble them here. America benefits very little from these manufacturers.

[Cole Trickle]

Precisely. Without the work aspect, most people wouldn't own a truck I have found. I certainly wouldn't. Pure neccessity for me. I hate driving it every day though.
So, you would buy a Nazi car huh? Traitor! :D
<----- not Jewish... and I would try and punish it every time I got behind the wheel:devil: :D
The only trucks that I have found fun to drive were the modded/lowered regular cab silverados and Ford Lightnings. I think you are getting the best of both worlds.
Driving a lifted truck everyday is like beating off with sandpaper.:jawdrop: :mad: ;) :D

[Jbb]

You know what they called the four door variant?
Wego!

[sangervdrive]

Also, I'm not retarded I realize that many parts of "American" cars were not made in America. My point is that if its an American car the chances are good that the injection molds were made here, the dies were probably made here and all other "high tech" or "high precision" parts probably were as well. Because otherwise there would be very little chance of any of the parts being conforming.
I could care less about the cheap stuff, hell if Mexico wants to mold a bunch of plastic sh*t for my car thats fine, but I would much rather have an American living in America being the one that designed the parts and built the mold. Rather than a Japanese engineer living in Japan. But thats just me, not meaning to step on anyones toes.

[Jbb]

Thems big words son... You may just consider who you are talking to and the sacrifices they have made to stand a post. You ever stood a watch for your country?
Sanger.....you dont live far enough away from Froggy......to talk like that...:p

[BigDogIvan]

Wego!
They also were looking at building a truck.
Allgo :D

[LOWRIVER2]

Call me what you want. I don't see it as bigotry. I "try" to buy products in which the company that "profits" the most from the mfg.,is U.S. That being said, I don't base it solely on Japanese. I have three vehicles. First two are a truck and SUV, both U.S. My commuter car is foreign and I bought it used so the profit does'nt go back to another country. This day and age, we all know just about every country OTHER than the U.S. has fingers in U.S. cars. The majority of the profit still goes back to the U.S. Sometimes the best equipment for a job unfortunately is foreign built and you have to buy it to ultimately make the best profit. Example for me is our asphalt grinding machines on my second job. The large ones are German made and simply last much longer than their American counterparts. I see the idea as a consideration that each person makes for themselves.
It's increasingly hard to buy products that include a profit to U.S. companies as this nation outsources, becomes ever more service oriented, etc. My primary weapon is'nt made in the U.S. but my agency does'nt allow an option other than Smith Wesson (they stopped making the 4506 a few years back and actually had a majority share holders stake by England until recently), anyways. I will have a problem the day we as a country buy the majority of our military weapons systems from overseas, bad road to go down.
Free trade is important but so is small business and I'm sure you, of all people Wes, are aware of this.
Do I lose sleep over it? Hell no, but attempting to buy stuff that has U.S. based profit is no harder than tossing plastic into a recycle bin.
As for cars, yes, the foreign ones are better designed, built for the most part. I simply never will like foreign trucks over U.S. made ones, but that's me.
With the CARB laws and what it's done to the sand car industry, I'd say that should be one of your big concerns now Wes. The whole fiasco with Sand Car Co.'s being forbidden to sell a complete car right now arose when the CARB tried to sanction Joyner Industries imported sand cars with LS1's and the American Importer said "If you're going to look at me, look at all the American mfg.'s" It has definately put a dent in that industry and will eventually shut down a lot of mom and pop sand car builders.

[sangervdrive]

Thems big words son... You may just consider who you are talking to and the sacrifices they have made to stand a post. You ever stood a watch for your country?
Again, which brand specifically? You need to probably do some research on this one to find one that is American owned, purchases it's parts from Americans and had anything to do with the Great Depression, The Dust Bowl or any wars.
What you might find through your jinoistic haze is a reality that our military aircraft now feature japanese electronics and Taiwanese hardware. You will find that we are shooting guns built overseas and most were built using foreign money...
How about you go ask your teacher for some more speaking points and come back later...
I consider the military a completely seperate entity as I have very little control over what they do or don't buy and where it comes from. I fully understand the power of the global marketplace and understand completely that I have sacrificed very little for our way of life. Thats why I try to defend it with one of the few things I can control (the things I buy)
PS. I glad to live in a country where we get to choose.

[Froggystyle]

Free trade is important but so is small business and I'm sure you, of all people Wes, are aware of this.
Well, I use American parts with American labor, built in American shops and sell to Americans. But I do so because the best pricing that I could get for any of my manufacturing processes and keep the quality where it needs to be to be acceptable as a Trident was found right here in the US. It is an economics thing for me, that I happen to end up coming up on the same side as national zealots on.
With the CARB laws and what it's done to the sand car industry, I'd say that should be one of your big concerns now Wes.
None at all. What effects me effects the entire industry. It will not be made illegal to buy a boat because the market is too big and too many politicians own boats. But if it became difficult, the same difficulty level would extend across the industry, and we are in a better position to comply with almost any regulation than most. I had the same discussion with regard to the smog laws on high performance boat engines. Doesn't effect me. If there is a price increase, it will increase across the industry. If we have to use smaller motors... nobody can make better use of a small motor than we can.
The whole fiasco with Sand Car Co.'s being forbidden to sell a complete car right now arose when the CARB tried to sanction Joyner Industries imported sand cars with LS1's and the American Importer said "If you're going to look at me, look at all the American mfg.'s" It has definately put a dent in that industry and will eventually shut down a lot of mom and pop sand car builders.
Honestly... What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The problem here is CARB... not Joyner.
That said, I can't think of a single complex machine that I would ever buy from China.

[LOWRIVER2]

Well good for you then:D
I'd say there's a good chance all of us will be impacted in the next twenty-30 years by changes in technology for what is used to propel us on all transportation levels. The companies that succeed will be those that adapt to the changes, just as you did with the outdrives.
My grandfather was born in 1901 and rode in a horse/wagon around the town of Bisbee Az. as a kid. He died in 1985 with space shuttles in orbit. I think we will see some large changes in transportation modes in our life times just as he did in his.

[RT21]

Honestly... What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The problem here is CARB... not Joyner.
That said, I can't think of a single complex machine that I would ever buy from China.[/QUOTE]
Racist

[Froggystyle]

My grandfather was born in 1901 and rode in a horse/wagon around the town of Bisbee Az. as a kid. He died in 1985 with space shuttles in orbit. I think we will see some large changes in transportation modes in our life times just as he did in his.
I dream of it every day. Unfortunately, I think the legacy my generation is really turning over is the X-box.
We have national debt problems, but they aren't because we are buying Japanese or German cars... they are because we are spending too much money as a people and as a country. We are in too much debt (I should talk) and have been greedily subsidizing our debt with other governments loans. All the while, reducing our requirement level for our purchase quality. There was a time when things that are as poorly constructed as most items you see on a shelf these days just wouldn't have sold. Now, we have "rolled back" the prices on so many things, it would just not be competetive to try and put a quality piece next to most of them. Not in consumption volumes in any case.
I don't know where I am going to end up fitting in, but even without a lot of money, I usually buy quality over everything else... country of origin included.

[Froggystyle]

Racist
No, experience. The experience I have had with large-part projects from Chinese manufacturing has been well sub-standard. I think that individual parts are well suited to Chinese manufacturing, but the design, assembly, logistics and creativity I have seen doesn't seem to work well. Put a Joyner Commando next to a Rhino as an example. Sure, it is less money, but it is a whole lot less vehicle too...
It boils down to why you would build in China... to save money. If you are building in China to keep the quality high and the price comparable... you may end up with something. My new favorite audio company, "Exile" is building under American supervision, using American design and engineering in China. They have two American engineers over there full time ensuring quality and hardware content. They are building over there because they really seriously couldn't find an American firm that was up to the challenge for anything approaching a reasonable price. Sad but true.
If you are building in China to cut price, be the low price leader on a mechanical device like a sand car or a vehicle, the quality is ususally low across the board as well. Dihatsu's suck, so did Yugo's and Daewoos. None are vehicles I would buy.

[@theRVR]

Like it was said before, most of the Jap imports are built here anyways. So therefore I AM still supporting our economy! My last Ford was built in Mexico (i believe), so whats that say for buying a Ford....
Just remember when a foreign car is built in the states, it keeps the american worker employed but the profit goes to the company in their own country.

[Froggystyle]

Just remember when a foreign car is built in the states, it keeps the american worker employed but the profit goes to the company in their own country.
Right, but are you that concerned whether or not the Chairman of GM gets the profit, or the American worker and industry?
This gets back to Unions of course as well, but we won't start that up just yet... ;)

[@theRVR]

I only buy Yugo........
you can double the value of a Yugo if you fill it with gas.:D

[@theRVR]

Right, but are you that concerned whether or not the Chairman of GM gets the profit, or the American worker and industry?
This gets back to Unions of course as well, but we won't start that up just yet... ;)
yes the problem with american car companies are the unions, they need to eliminate them.

[catman-do]

Sanger- Why do you limit it to the car industry? Is it just because the acrs are the biggest physical item we see in our day-to-day lives? There are many other industries that are over sees. Your computer your typing on probably is imported, along with your clothes, tv's, any other electronic device, and the steel used to build your building has a 60% chance that it came from over sees. I dont see a problem with free trade. We also sell many other items to other countries. Its a big circle. If we cut them off of our spending then they would cut us off from what they are purchasing.

[Ivan Dan]

Imagine there were a world war III and the sides were similar to the sides in WWII.
If we had to start converting factories over to wartime production what do you think Hyndai and Honda and Mitsu ect. would do? I doubt they would help us. I am a manufacturing student and have some extremely knowlegable chinese proffesors and they say that in China and Japan they laugh at us becuase we buy the sh*t that they don't even want. Their whole goal is to make us think we need something so we then buy it.
Look at all the 9 axis CNCs and stuff. No company in Japan (generalization) buys machines like that yet many of them make them. In Japan, China companies are taught to make their own specific machines for every purpose yet they sell tons of sophisticated CNCs to Americans becuase we think we need it, THEN when it breaks down where do we go?? The only people that fix it, the people who built it.
We all need to stand up for ourselves and support the companies that supported our country for decades. IMO
BTW call me old fashioned if you want but I'm 23 years old.
If we have WWIII life as we know it may never exist again. SCARY $HIT if you ask me. Korea, Iran, China.....:jawdrop: it would get really ugly really quick. We all should be praying everyday that this never happens.

[HammerDown]

:idea: What I don't understand is...when I see a Foreign vehicle with American Flag/USA stickers all over it, just what are they proud of :confused:
If I may touch on the "Maybe we suck at making plastic look nice, or maybe we don't do as good of a job of designing in the first place or something, but plastic interiors in imports seem a lot nicer than plastic interiors in domestics." deal.
The 06 Corolla-S I sold last June (thank goodness)was the cheapest feeling vehicle I've ever owned. Plastic everywhere, the sheet metal was paper thin, the paint (while very nice looking) would chip if a bug hit it. I bought it strictly for fuel mileage and it did deliver that however, I had zero pride driving it or owning it and lost thousands just to get it out of my garage...with only 6000 miles on it! The new Tundras have the cheapest looking plastic dash and surrounding items I've ever looked at, and this is a tough Truck? The inside door handles feel like hollow plastic that might snap off at any use.:rolleyes:
I'll stick with vehicles that carry an American name plate on them, like my Chevy Corvette, Ford F-250 and Harley Davidson...Unless I can some day afford that 25'th anniversary Lamborghini Countach I've always wanted...;)

[Luckie Stiff]

[QUOTE=Froggystyle;2932080]
So, it is now racial bigotry to try and support your countries manufacturing infrastructure?
My country's manufacturing infrastructure is NOT located in Canada or Mexico, when you can find a vehicle made by the big 3 that is MADE IN AMERICA, I'll buy it, until then I'll support the Union auto workers at Toyota, Acura & Honda. In addition to "American" made cars & trucks, please locate me an American made electronic device, take a look at your boat, how much of it was made here? You'd be surprised.

[Luckie Stiff]

Levis......
I bought 2 pairs while on sale tuesday;)
Made in China since 2002!

[Luckie Stiff]

Where did the parts come from?
Most of the American made Toyota parts are produced in Michigan and St. Louis, Honda & Acura use both Canadian & American plants for their US made cars, where are the American car makers' parts made? Oh yeah, Mexico!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

<----- not Jewish... and I would try and punish it every time I got behind the wheel:devil: :D
The only trucks that I have found fun to drive were the modded/lowered regular cab silverados and Ford Lightnings. I think you are getting the best of both worlds.
Driving a lifted truck everyday is like beating off with sandpaper.:jawdrop: :mad: ;) :D
I agree. My Lightning is still a blast to drive and does a decent job of towing the Ultra. It stays parked in AZ so I don't get tp drive ot much. :D
My F150 Lightning was built in Canada

[Froggystyle]

So, it is now racial bigotry to try and support your countries manufacturing infrastructure?
My country's manufacturing infrastructure is NOT located in Canada or Mexico, when you can find a vehicle made by the big 3 that is MADE IN AMERICA, I'll buy it, until then I'll support the Union auto workers at Toyota, Acura & Honda.
You quoted me as saying that, but I didn't... I was contesting it. Change it if you will please... :D
BTW... I am with you on the "American" cars thing.
In addition to "American" made cars & trucks, please locate me an American made electronic device, take a look at your boat, how much of it was made here? You'd be surprised.
Bad example if you are quoting me still... Our laminates, interior, construction materials, wire, clamps, stainless hardware, gelcoats, fiberglass, trailer steel, trailer, billet aluminum components, nav lighting, switches, engines, drives, propellers and hoses are all made and assembled in America by American companies. After an audit we did, we found the overseas production was limited on our boat to our audio system (designed, funded and controlled by an American corporation) and our interior LED lighting. In all actuality, our boat is about 98% American built.

[Froggystyle]

:idea: What I don't understand is...when I see a Foreign vehicle with American Flag/USA stickers all over it, just what are they proud of :confused:
Being Americans. Having the freedom to drive whatever they want... among other things.
If I may touch on the "Maybe we suck at making plastic look nice..." deal.
The 06 Corolla-S I sold last June (thank goodness)was the cheapest feeling vehicle I've ever owned. Plastic everywhere, the sheet metal was paper thin, the paint (while very nice looking) would chip if a bug hit it. I bought it strictly for fuel mileage and it did deliver that however, I had zero pride driving it or owning it and lost thousands just to get it out of my garage...with only 6000 miles on it!
How much was that Corolla new? Go price-match it to a Cobalt and see how they stack up. You want to talk about cheap plastic boy... you need to look at GM.
:The new Tundras have the cheapest looking plastic dash and surrounding items I've ever looked at, and this is a tough Truck? The inside door handles feel like hollow plastic that might snap off at any use.:rolleyes:
Don't go hang out in one of the new Chevy Tahoe's, Suburbans or pickups then. All I could think about the whole time I was looking at them was how it looked like a pile of ABS exploded in them. Kept me from buying one in fact.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though...
:I'll stick with vehicles that carry an American name plate on them, like my Chevy Corvette, Ford F-250 and Harley Davidson...Unless I can some day afford that 25'th anniversary Lamborghini Countach I've always wanted...;)
Well, my C5 Corvette was nice, but the interior was failing badly on it after only four years. The fiberglass bolsters on the drivers seat had cracked from getting in and out of it, the main dashboard center console had wiggled itself loose and cracked, the plastic grommets that held the interior carpet against the tranny tunnel had long since given up... they might have been bad when I bought the car now that I think about it.
In my truck the rear panel behind the back seat has clips that failed, the "A" pillar keeps popping itself loose after being removed properly once to put the Edge programmer in place, the seats again have started to show wear around the seams of the drivers door, though it is a premium leather package... The carpet, interior, headliner and dashboard are all different but similar colors. I think that is one of the big things that pisses me off about it frankly. Couldn't you at least get the color right? The interior is one color, but all of the plastic that bolts to it is slightly darker, and the carpet is a different color still. The two different types of plastic that make up the dashboard are also dissimilar in color and texture. The trim lines around the Denali dashboard I bought aren't even close to accurate, and as I stated before, the pervasive attitude about the whole thing is that it will never, ever come apart again, but if it does you will need to replace the panel more than likely.
I like all cars. For this purpose, I liked a Toyota best...

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I'll stick with the ol gas guzzlers.;)
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/10365Blue_68.jpg

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Hey Froggy, I was lookin for ya at bluewater the last few days.:confused:

[Froggystyle]

I'll stick with the ol gas guzzlers.;)
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/10365Blue_68.jpg
If it makes you feel any better, I just traded my Chevy truck for a 1967 Camaro...
Of course it is for sale... just thought I would throw that in there. ;)
Gorgeous Chevelle BTW...

[Froggystyle]

Hey Froggy, I was lookin for ya at bluewater the last few days.:confused:
Didn't make it. :(
We had a boat ready to go for the evaluations back in October, but they had the helo crash and postponed them. Pushing it to here was going to be too much of a pinch to get the 710 boat done, so we had to pass on it.
We will probably get something together with them though anyway. They feel bad that we missed because of the cancellation, and realize that we don't produce boats every week (or even month for that matter) yet. We will get it evaluated when it is done.
Would have liked to have met you though...

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Didn't make it. :(
We had a boat ready to go for the evaluations back in October, but they had the helo crash and postponed them. Pushing it to here was going to be too much of a pinch to get the 710 boat done, so we had to pass on it.
We will probably get something together with them though anyway. They feel bad that we missed because of the cancellation, and realize that we don't produce boats every week (or even month for that matter) yet. We will get it evaluated when it is done.
Would have liked to have met you though...
Great group of people. I would have liked to see how yours stacked up. My favorites were the conquest and the E-ticket (for that category).
I'll catch ya at the next gig (if I'm working it). :cool:
Keep the Camaro for sat eve cruise nights.

[Froggystyle]

Great group of people. I would have liked to see how yours stacked up. My favorites were the conquest and the E-ticket (for that category).
I'll catch ya at the next gig (if I'm working it). :cool:
Keep the Camaro for sat eve cruise nights.
Wish we would have made it. We love all those folks too.
Those are nice boats. Good company to be in for sure.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'll stick with the ol gas guzzlers.;)
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/10365Blue_68.jpg
Beautiful 68

[Luckie Stiff]

Froggy- I wasn't quoting you or anyone in particular, just statements I saw posted, sorry if you felt I was disrespecting you, none was intended. As for the boat parts, I had zero idea that you manufacture boats, again, I was talking to the masses and not to your in particular, sorry about that, by the way, Good on You for doing the audit, it's people like you that see quality over the $$$ that keep me thinking we'll be alright............someday

[Flyinbowtie]

Interesting thread.
Wes, my father and his four brothers were all in the Navy during WWII.
All are gone now.
One was an officer, full commander. I have the Sabre he was given when he was commisioned and graduated, he had no children. The other four, including my father, were blue water sailors.
None of them, to my knowledge, ever owned a vehicle built overseas, and this was a choice they made and wereloud and proud of it. My mother remarried after my Dad died in '83. The gent she married was a Pearl Harbor Survivor, a Submariner; 30 year man. He served on the Bream, the Wahoo, & the Bowfin, that I know of.
He was the same way. No imports. Japanese, to be specific.
American TV's, appliances, etc.
Period.
He died one month prior to the 50th anniversary of 12-07-41. He and Mom were going to go for the memorial, Mom went alone. She still gets the WWII Subvets newsletter. I read it. They are contemplating the closure of their group, their numbers are rapidly decreasing.
In 1988 I went looking for a small 4wd diesel tractor, with a bucket and a 4-way box, in the 20-25 HP range.
The Fords were built in Japan, as were the John Deeres, and very other one I could find within 150 miles of my home. I wanted to buy American, but wound up with a Kubota.
The damn thing has proven indestructable.
I support buying stuff made here where the $ is gonna stay here. It just seems to make sense to me. The problem is we don't build many consumer items in this country anymore. The companies we used to know as domestic builders are now domestic importers.
It is damn near impossible to buy a car made entirely here. Looking at stickers, they tell ya what % of the car is built/assmebled/etc in north America.
I am an anomally on here, I guess. I am 49, still own the only brand new vehicle I have ever bought, a 1997 F-350 4x4 CC Long Bed diesel truck, which I converted to a dually. The interior looks brand new. I shampoo the carpets, I wax the truck. I am anal. I will own it until my ass falls through it's rusted out floors. They ain't rusty.
Although I LOVE driving it usually I drive '65 Beetle that is for sale, I am gonna buy my kid's 97 Tacoma to try and keep some of my $ in my pocket, and keep "tonka" for hauling the camper and boat.
The WWII generation had every right to flip the bird to everything that came from the shores of the folks that killed their parents, brothers, sisters, and whom they fought against. Their kids probably have some right to the same feelings.
Todays people need to read and understand history, but they don't. They get pissed at who the media tells them to, they like who the media tells them too, and they drive what the neighbors drive because they think it makes them cool. Or, Heaven hlep us, what some pissant celebrity says is cool.
We are loosing our identity, our culture, and our ability to export anything but Big Macs and movies is declining as well. It is just my opinion, but greed brought us to this place. A loss of our national identity and pride, coupled with individual greed, corporate greed, political greed, and a lack of understanding of history. We tend to forget what happened last week, our enemies; past, present, and future never forget a damn thing.
Soory for the rant...:rolleyes:

[OCMerrill]

Froggy I might suggest you avoid having your FJ "Wrapped" with an American flag type theme. :D :D
Post up some pics of what your doing.
BY the way Barrett Jackson 08...should I be looking for you there?

[Luckie Stiff]

Todays people need to read and understand history, but they don't. They get pissed at who the media tells them to, they like who the media tells them too, and they drive what the neighbors drive because they think it makes them cool. Or, Heaven help us, what some piss ant celebrity says is cool.
We are loosing our identity, our culture, and our ability to export anything but Big Macs and movies is declining as well. It is just my opinion, but greed brought us to this place. A loss of our national identity and pride, coupled with individual greed, corporate greed, political greed, and a lack of understanding of history. We tend to forget what happened last week, our enemies; past, present, and future never forget a damn thing.
Sorry for the rant...:rolleyes:
Very well said FBT, we must drink from the same well

[Flyinbowtie]

Very well said FBT, we must drink from the same well
Could Be:D
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1525934.jpg
My Dad had this snapshot in amongst some some stuff I found. He was an old Dry Lakes racer, was at the first meet after the war, we believe he is the guy in the light colored shirt in the middle. Sent the pic to Chrisman with a letter, but never got a response.

[Ziggy]

If the demostics went metric they could get a little more precision in the manufacturing process.
American laborers do not have the same "Attention to Detail" as the Asian and European workers. "Good enough for Government work" doesn't fly overseas. Fit and finish is drastically different. Domestic tolerances are bigger, makes for easier manufacturing and assembly. Take the gap of the hood to the fender on most any domestic mainstream car and it is not equal, then look at the Japanese and Euro cars evenly spaced. Its this type of quality, or lack of, that represents the overall quality of the marque.
As Proud as we are to be American we do not have the same standards as do the "enemies". Most cars will be nice and tight for 40-50k miles but thats where the long term quality really begins to show.
While most Foreign vehicles have evolved and transformed dramatically for the sake of improvement the domestics have basically remained on the same/similar platforms for decades.

[Flyinbowtie]

Agreed, Ziggy.
The "domestics" or what is left of them, have been slow to change, strangled by absurd regulatory shizint, and the metric issue should have been dealt with 30 years ago.
Taking pride in a product means putting a little bit of yourself into it; my Dad's favorite line when I was getting into building cars was "Boy, if it is worth doing once, it is worth doing right. Your name will be forever associated with that machine, remember that."
I did.
I taught it to my sons.
Somewhere along the line, that kind of pride in wok went away. I saw a deal on TV the other night about the new hot rod engine in the Corvettes, hand assembled by one guy who signs a plate on the top of the engine when it is done. That gave me hope for the future.
A global market is going to force these compaines to produce a quality piece, or die. They can't fight the government regs, cheap overseas labor, etc. and get away with an inferior product anymore. The influx of offshore auto compaines in the U.S. building product here proves that our labor force can still do the work, it is the domestic auto corporate culture that needs to change, imho

[Luckie Stiff]

That is a BITCHIN' car! Do you have a higher res pic of it you can email me? I know a lot of greybeards that are sharp as tacks when it comes to old hot rods, they may know some of it's history. On another note, you say Gold Country eh? I'm interviewing in Jamestown next month, could be moving there in a few months! Never been up there, but it sure looks neat from what I've seen.

[Riomouse911]

The frustrating part is I really REALLY WANT to buy American...but the luck I have had outside of the '99 Super Duty is terrible. Case in point, my '91 Toytoa 4WD, 175K on the dials when I sold it.. with the original brake shoes on the rear. I bought a new set, but every time I took it in the mechanics said the ones on it were still good. The new owner got the brake shoes still in the box, and a truck that looked and ran like new. Best truck i've ever had.
My Impala.. Vega (A true rust bucket POS), Suburban, Silverado, Fairmont wagon.. ALL were regulars to the shop for steering, A/C, electrical, fuel pumps, drive lines.. you name it. And it was never right, and I usually had to go back 2-3x to get the thing fixed.
After the Ford SD, which has been a great rig, I got an '04 Scion. Ugly little runt, but it runs like a top, lowered with 215-40-17tires/rims so it handles like it's on rails, parks anywhere, and gets 33 MPG. 45k trouble free miles.
My company car, an 06' Ford 500. THREE (soon to be 4) trips to the dealer in LESS THAN 12k miles. Vacuum issues 2 times (It's now acting up again) and the trunk lid decided to pop open last spring on the only rainy day for months, so everything in the trunk got soaked on the 91 freeway. Needless to say, I was pretty soured.
Despite my lousy luck with American marques I recently spoke to Jay Photoglou a couple of times about a GMC or Chevy 2500 SUV (Yukon XL or Suburban) because we need more room with the kiddos. The wife and I thought long and hard about a GM rig, then we found a sweet deal we couldn't pass up on a Toyota Sequoia, so we got that. (Traded in the '05 Lexus, again zero problems to speak of.) Based on the tales friends and aquaintances have had with theirs, I'm thinking this purchase should be as trouble free as the other foreign cars I've owned.
In closing, YES I want to buy a home-grown product, and YES I want to support fellow Americans. NO I don't want to support every mechanic in town, NO I don't want to have to rent cars again while it's in the shop, and NO I don't want to have little or no faith in the car I'm in getting me home without the help of a tow truck. I've been there several times, not again.

[Baja Big Dog]

I wonder how many "closet" import drivers are out there????:D :confused:

[RT21]

The bigger question is if they are bigoted closet import drivers...:D

[RT21]

None at all. What effects me effects the entire industry. It will not be made illegal to buy a boat because the market is too big and too many politicians own boats. But if it became difficult, the same difficulty level would extend across the industry, and we are in a better position to comply with almost any regulation than most. I had the same discussion with regard to the smog laws on high performance boat engines. Doesn't effect me. If there is a price increase, it will increase across the industry. If we have to use smaller motors... nobody can make better use of a small motor than we can.
There already is a boat like yours with a smaller motor. It is called a pontoon. Do you think potential customers of yours will spend 150 large and be stuck with a V-6? Face it, if big motors go, so goes the "***boat" industry.
Also, which auto company is at the front of shoving small motors down our throat? Bonus points if you also can guess which US political party is on board with them.

[sangervdrive]

If the demostics went metric they could get a little more precision in the manufacturing process.
American laborers do not have the same "Attention to Detail" as the Asian and European workers. "Good enough for Government work" doesn't fly overseas. Fit and finish is drastically different. Domestic tolerances are bigger, makes for easier manufacturing and assembly. Take the gap of the hood to the fender on most any domestic mainstream car and it is not equal, then look at the Japanese and Euro cars evenly spaced. Its this type of quality, or lack of, that represents the overall quality of the marque.
As Proud as we are to be American we do not have the same standards as do the "enemies". Most cars will be nice and tight for 40-50k miles but thats where the long term quality really begins to show.
While most Foreign vehicles have evolved and transformed dramatically for the sake of improvement the domestics have basically remained on the same/similar platforms for decades.
Good post but I disagree a little bit, I personally think that the importers good quality is due to the Toyota Production System, and not really their line workers vigilance. I don't disagree that as a whole they are a hard working, loyal people but from what I understand they just do what they are told, its the system that makes their cars better. That being said I feel that as more people like me, soon to graduate, trained on lean MFG, Kaizen, Pokayoke, Toyota Production System, and many other techniques that have been in place overseas for decades get into the workforce, things will change.
We can and will produce the best products in the world because I feel that it is our country that has the imagination, the will, and the perseverance to make it happen. Think about it Japan was in isolation until what? the thirties?? most of the knowledge on manufacturing they have they copied off of the domestics, their only advantage over the years is a simple theory, "Continuous Improvement"
Everyone has horror stories of their domestic that was always in the shop and the import that ran forever. Personally I drive a 2000 Chevy Cavalier about 28 very hard mpg (5 speed, with a short shifter :)) and it has 170,000, on the clock I bought it for $500 wrecked in the front fixed it for an additional $800. It looks good, has never spitted or sputtered and runs beautifully. Maybe it was the pick of the litter, maybe its just a good car from a good company.? Who knows

[Froggystyle]

There already is a boat like yours with a smaller motor. It is called a pontoon. Do you think potential customers of yours will spend 150 large and be stuck with a V-6?
Well, frankly the largest expense in the entire boat is the engine and drive. Hard costs of the boat minus motor and drive is about $40K. Add even the cheapest motor and it goes up $14K. My price on a 710 Ilmor with a drive is about $70K+. Add steering and it is essentially double the cost of the boat.
Bottom line is, with a V-6, the boat wouldn't be more than $80K.
Face it, if big motors go, so goes the "***boat" industry.
Well, I humbly disagree. It would spell doom for boats with big motors. Would certainly make owning boats that could go faster with smaller power a lot more attractive, wouldn't you think? It won't end ***boating... it will just change it. I will still have a fast boat, I don't know about you...
Also, which auto company is at the front of shoving small motors down our throat? Bonus points if you also can guess which US political party is on board with them.
I dunno... Who?