So who are you voting for??

[Not So Fast]

After reading about and listening to most of the candidates for President who will you be voting for?:idea: There just isnt a clear cut winner IMO, each one has serious flaws when you research them. The US needs some good leadership at this point in time. :( NSF

[ULTRA26 # 1]

After reading about and listening to most of the candidates for President who will you be voting for?:idea: There just isnt a clear cut winner IMO, each one has serious flaws when you research them. The US needs some good leadership at this point in time. :( NSF
Bobby. so far I'm with you. nobody stands tall IMO.

[sanger rat]

Ron Paul:)

[Mrs 2LKHVSU]

I vote for HAPPY HOUR! :D

[catman-do]

I think what America needs is someone that will stand up and tell everyone to f..k off and stop crying about everything. America used to be a country full of people that would fall down, stand back up, wipe off their pants and get back into the grind.... all in order to "do the right thing". Now its becoming a country of people that fall down, let people kick them while they are down, and then sue the owner of the land that they fell on, oh yeah and then before they get back up they need govt assistance in order to "do the right thing". (and im NOT talking about RE industry, more about lazy workers).
On a serious note, im voting for Mitt Romney, I think we need a Mormon prez. That way I wont be able to buy beer any day of the week at the river, and then when I want some coke for my Capt, i wont be able to find that either. :mad: BUT, we will have strong family value back! :rolleyes:

[Troy McClure]

Hilary
J/K :D

[OCMerrill]

Hilary
J/K :D
At first I am like oh SHIT.....then I thanked God (who I think is real...and just doesn't like ***boat.:) ) that you were J/K. :D

[Kachina26]

Ron Paul:)
RuPaul?
http://www.poolparty.com/quotes/images/2007/04/28/rupaul.jpg

[Troy McClure]

At first I am like oh SHIT.....then I thanked God (who I think is real...and just doesn't like ***boat.:) ) that you were J/K. :D
Ha, ha... no, I'm a small (micro?) business owner.... the dems don't have my best interest in mind...:( :(
Actually do they have any U.S. citizen's welfare in mind?

[mickeyfinn]

RON PAUL

[KineticoH20]

RUDY......RUDY........RUDY.........:idea: :D

[soulboater#1]

For the person who will lower the gas price!!!:D

[BEER&WATER]

RON PAUL
COPY THAT

[hotsand65]

RuPaul?
http://www.poolparty.com/quotes/images/2007/04/28/rupaul.jpg
How the hell does he hide his thang?

[blown65]

I can guarantee it wont be obama nor hitlery.

[cab_01]

Anyone that votes for a Dimocrat is a focking idiot.

[homelessinaz]

Yeah, what we need is more Republican leadership, because things are moving along so well right now. :rolleyes:
You do realize you're insulting 50% of the population (or more), idiot?
OH SNAP! Right on SW Bob!

[42' johnny]

Ron Paul !!!!!!!!
42

[Flyinbowtie]

I don't know yet. I am still holding out hope for some sort of miracle.
I know a few I won't be voting for, but I really have not decided yet.
Trying to find a legit traditional conservative in this bunch ain't easy.
Honestly, it has been awhile since I felt strongly that one candidate was the man we needed. I have believed strongly that some were men we most assuredly didn't need...kinda depressing to tell ya the truth.

[OutCole'd]

I don't know yet. I am still holding out hope for some sort of miracle.
I know a few I won't be voting for, but I really have not decided yet.
Trying to find a legit traditional conservative in this bunch ain't easy.
Honestly, it has been awhile since I felt strongly that one candidate was the man we needed. I have believed strongly that some were men we most assuredly didn't need...kinda depressing to tell ya the truth.
I agree, I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two morons.

[homelessinaz]

Ha, ha... no, I'm a small (micro?) business owner.... the dems don't have my best interest in mind...:( :(
Actually do they have any U.S. citizen's welfare in mind?
Actually, Democrats in Congress have recently taken at least 3 actions I can think of to aid small businesses.
This bill simplifies the tax process for small businesses:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-46
This Bill, introduced by Heath Shuler (D, NC) recognizes that small businesses are hit harder by rising energy costs and addresses that:
http://www.house.gov/smbiz/democrats/PressReleases/2007/pr-05-23-07-energy.htm
Lastly, this article illustrates that Democrats seem to be more in tune with the issues that small businesses face in trying to offer competitive health care:
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/12/health_costs_a.php
Why did you say that Democrats don't have the interests of small business owners in mind? Can you give a specific example of something that a Democrat has done that hurts small business interests?
Homeless

[Outnumbered]

Yeah, what we need is more Republican leadership, because things are moving along so well right now. :rolleyes:
You do realize you're insulting 50% of the population (or more), idiot?
There is not much difference between Republican and Democrat anymore. It used to be more clear-cut and fell nicely along the Conservative and Liberal lines. And I am talking more fiscal than social.
Bush is not a Conservative and neither is Arnold...both have given the Republican party a stigma that it may never shake. Voting for another moderate/liberal Republican is just as bad as voting Democrat--it will only worsen our path to socialism and weakness. We need a true conservative that will close the borders, lift enviro restrictions which prohibit drilling new oil fields and building new refineries, cut social spending, reduce taxes, encourage small business development, etc.
The problem is that every time someone comes along that is even close to this mold the liberal media make him look like an idiot and a bigot/racist. Newt Gingrich and Pat Buchanan come to mind.
Maybe it is time to just start over and change the system completely? It seems to have got way out of control, abused, and just a complete joke.

[homelessinaz]

I agree, I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two morons.
I think that the two party system we've settled for for years has allowed both parties to ignore the will of the people. If we dislike what "our party" offers us in the way of legislation or candidates, our only options are to vote for the "other party", effectively cutting off our own noses to spite our faces (unlikely), or to not vote at all.
When there is talk of new parties, there is an automatic cynical reaction as if it would be physically impossible to have new parties; as if we were speaking about time travel or a fountain of youth. This automatic cynical reaction is the best thing that the two party racket has going for it. I think America will either overcome this cynicism or it will forever be a captive of what has ceased to be a representative republic and has in a very real way become a dual monarchy.
Homeless

[Riomouse911]

I was hoping to hear more from Bill Richardson.. He started out being a guy closest to what I wanted, but he's been off the charts the past couple of months..

[cdog]

I wish Ron Paul had a chance. I'd vote for anyone who'd shit can the irs.:D

[westair]

Actually, Democrats in Congress have recently taken at least 3 actions I can think of to aid small businesses.
This bill simplifies the tax process for small businesses:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-46
This Bill, introduced by Heath Shuler (D, NC) recognizes that small businesses are hit harder by rising energy costs and addresses that:
http://www.house.gov/smbiz/democrats/PressReleases/2007/pr-05-23-07-energy.htm
Lastly, this article illustrates that Democrats seem to be more in tune with the issues that small businesses face in trying to offer competitive health care:
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/12/health_costs_a.php
Why did you say that Democrats don't have the interests of small business owners in mind? Can you give a specific example of something that a Democrat has done that hurts small business interests?
Homeless
Democrats are trying to make it mandatory for small business to supply health
care to employees ...... and how about that family leave act, to allow employees to come and go as they please.
How about the minimum wage, always trying to increase it when its meant for
unskilled entry employees.
Yea democrats are great for small business!!

[cab_01]

Yeah, what we need is more Republican leadership, because things are moving along so well right now.
Economy up. new jobs up 94,000 last month, Surge is working in Iraq so you are right things are moving well. The mortgage mess may put us into a recession, but we will go into one anyway. it is inevitable.
You do realize you're insulting 50% of the population (or more), idiot?
Yes I do, obviously you are one of them and the shoe fits.

[YeLLowBoaT]

The better Q is who do you not want in office. That list is getting pretty long

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

While I don't agree with everything McCain stands for, I think he's the only one with a very important quality that I would like, but never see in politicians . . . integrity. He doesn't change his views based on the polls. If he doesn't really have integrity, he sure is a better actor than the rest of them. Don't know who I'm voting for yet, but I guess I'd better make up my mind soon. :idea:

[hkunz]

No choices yet, BUT.... After seeing the debacles close up that the last Democrat put us in (regardless of the spin doctors in the media), and the long term damage to our country he did, my choice is NOT Democrat, or more specifically, the person who has the best chance of making it "NOT Democrat".
I wasn't aligned with any particular party until after the 92 elections. It wasn't the election per se, but the resulting destruction of our rights. Some might argue that the current administration has taken away rights, but the big boost towards that loss of rights was inherited via previous policies.
Added to the rights issues were the half-baked foreign policies in which the military was downgraded until it was needed, then sacrificed. Here is some simple math, for the unbelievers - take a labor pool that is required to do certain work, and has years of training to become proficient. Cut thier end strength by 15%. Gives you 85% left. Next year, since the military "can do" (didn't complain), cut another 15%. Repeat until our enemies and wannabe enemies realize we can no longer defend ourselves, then blame the military for not being able to do what is needed.
Cases in point - Bosnia, Somalia, East Timor, Jordan. Those are just the ones I have intimate personal knowledge of, and may include places you may never have heard of.
Like I said - NOT Democrat.

[westair]

While I don't agree with everything McCain stands for, I think he's the only one with a very important quality that I would like, but never see in politicians . . . integrity. He doesn't change his views based on the polls. If he doesn't really have integrity, he sure is a better actor than the rest of them. Don't know who I'm voting for yet, but I guess I'd better make up my mind soon. :idea:
He does seem to have integrity and seems like a qualified guy but unfortunately
his stand on immigration will be his down fall.

[Outnumbered]

Democrats are trying to make it mandatory for small business to supply health
care to employees ...... and how about that family leave act, to allow employees to come and go as they please.
How about the minimum wage, always trying to increase it when its meant for
unskilled entry employees.
Yea democrats are great for small business!!
As a small biz owner for over 15 years, I would agree with this.

[Tremor Therapy]

The better Q is who do you not want in office. That list is getting pretty long
Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner, winner, winner!
Unfortunately my votes for the past 3 elections have been more about who I DON'T want in office! I can't remember the last person I actually wanted to vote FOR!

[Warlockjer]

Hey Bobby, you knew this would get interesting and it is;)

[LhcBrad]

I wish Ron Paul had a chance. I'd vote for anyone who'd shit can the irs.:D
I hear this alot "If Ron Paul had a chance i would vote for him"
I think he might have a chance. But for some reason you never hear about him from the media. Not that the media matters to me. They all are liars.

[westair]

I wish Ron Paul had a chance. I'd vote for anyone who'd shit can the irs.:D
That would be Huckabee.

[Outnumbered]

... But for some reason you never hear about him from the media...
Because they are afraid of him and his agenda. They will ignor him and do anything else they can to make him look hopeless and/or extremist. Unfortunately, most people will buy into this and the guy will be doomed.
If you just listen/watch/read the mainstream media you would think that Clinton and Obama are the only ones running for office:rolleyes:

[Not So Fast]

Hey Bobby, you knew this would get interesting and it is;)
Not any help is it, Jerry? I have no idea except like most replies stated, I know who I dont want in office:idea: All I know is we need a change for the better and fast. NSF

[HDF WATERDOG]

I'm still waiting for "None of the Above" to be added to the ballot.

[hkunz]

All I know is we need a change for the better and fast. NSF
I hear this a lot, but what is the opinion based upon? Mass media's version of the truth? I think that the only "better" that big media would go for would be a true socialist; they would find out too late that since true socialism requires fascism to work, they'd be out of a job and in confinement. Don't take my word for it, ask the reporters from Venezuala, Cambodia, Myanmar, USSR, old poland, etc. Oops, sorry, they're all dead, aren't they?
The current president inherited the tech-crash recession, the USS Cole non-action, and the Taliban/Osama situation. Anyone else, be they Democrat, Libertarian, Green Party, all would have been handed the same mess on many fronts. BUT, because big media doesn't like Republicans/conservatives/whichever way they think the wind blows, only the Republican gets blamed.

[CoolCruzinCobra]

None of the Demos will get my vote.
Rudy sound good

[Tremor Therapy]

Not to stir the waters or anything, but the only person I would vote for at this time would be Colin L. Powell. I have always had a great amount of respect for him and his opinions, and even when I disagreed with his point of view, it was easy to see that he man had conviction in his thoughts and words.
Now the person that is going to get elected is going to be the one who will finally tackle the illegal alien issue, the troops/Iraq issue, and one that shows up with an actual plan to get the economy going again. There are real some tough issues coming up, and we are going to need someone who can handle them. God help us if Billary or Guilliani get there first, because we will be doomed! :sqeyes:

[HDF WATERDOG]

I'd vote for Powell twice if I could.

[redneckcharlie]

I was hoping to hear more from Bill Richardson.. He started out being a guy closest to what I wanted, but he's been off the charts the past couple of months..
I live in NM where Richardson is Governor. I can go on for days with the crap he has done to this state! The man is a very good politician, and that is all he is. He will flat put it to his constituents to further his own gain. His entire platform was that of his predecessor, Gov. Gary Johnson. He has done a classic bait and switch in this state with raising every fee from MVD to hunting permits. His "tax cuts" were not even that, they were rebates to the people of NM. The extremely small amount that was given back to the citizens of NM in rebates was expotenially made back on the other side. ;)

[CARLSON-JET]

I'm leaning just a little towards Paul. :D

[redneckcharlie]

Not to stir the waters or anything, but the only person I would vote for at this time would be Colin L. Powell. I have always had a great amount of respect for him and his opinions, and even when I disagreed with his point of view, it was easy to see that he man had conviction in his thoughts and words.
Now the person that is going to get elected is going to be the one who will finally tackle the illegal alien issue, the troops/Iraq issue, and one that shows up with an actual plan to get the economy going again. There are real some tough issues coming up, and we are going to need someone who can handle them. God help us if Billary or Guilliani get there first, because we will be doomed! :sqeyes:
I'd have to agree with you Colin Powell is a respectable man, but he's way to smart to have his reputation sullied with the likes of what we have on Capital Hill!

[homelessinaz]

While I don't agree with everything McCain stands for, I think he's the only one with a very important quality that I would like, but never see in politicians . . . integrity. He doesn't change his views based on the polls. If he doesn't really have integrity, he sure is a better actor than the rest of them. Don't know who I'm voting for yet, but I guess I'd better make up my mind soon. :idea:
If you live in Arizona you no doubt HAVE to have seen McCain change his views on immigration. At first he and Senator Kennedy came out for comprehensive immigration reform but were ultimately swayed by the racist rhetoric expressed by a small but vocal minority of "minutemen" (klansmen is more like it). He went from talking about helping migrants get on a legal path to citizenship to just echoing what all the rednecks were calling for, a useless effort to "secure the border".
He adopted a controversial stance based on his knowledge of the subject, a stance based on reason and logic, but ultimately he was forced to reverse his stance because of public opinion. He's now with the anti-immigrant crowd.
At first I saw a lot of character in McCain because of his ability to work across the aisle on issues like campaign finance reform, but after he reversed himself on immigration reform to help his presidential campaign I lost all faith in McCain. If he's willing to appease bigots and xenophobes to advance his own interests, he isn't a man of the people.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Democrats are trying to make it mandatory for small business to supply health
care to employees ...... and how about that family leave act, to allow employees to come and go as they please.
How about the minimum wage, always trying to increase it when its meant for
unskilled entry employees.
Yea democrats are great for small business!!
Democrats are trying to make it EASIER to get benefits for your employees if you're a small business owner. Two of the top Republican contenders (Romney and Huckabee) are intimating that they'd make it mandatory for people to buy thier own health insurance, and Romney has already made it mandatory for people to buy their own health insurance as the governor of Massachusetts. If that's going to happen, what's the difference?
If you want to get right down to it, Dems are the only ones talking about having a government funded public healthcare system, which would finally take the burden of providing health insurance off of the employer, and wouldn't that be good?
FMLA: An employer covered by FMLA is any person engaged in commerce or
in any industry or activity affecting commerce, who employs 50 or more
employees for each working day during each of 20 or more calendar
workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year. In other words, if you don't employ at least 50 employees, it doesn't apply to you. Surely if you can employ 50 people you can make arrangements to let the ones who have just given birth take a few weeks off, can't you? As an employer you are entitled to expect certain things from employees, but do you REALLY think you're entitled to expect them to shoot out babies on their lunch break and be back on the clock by 1PM? Where are YOUR family values?
Surely you must agree that even an unskilled entry level employee should be able to take care of their family, unless you are of the opinion that unskilled entry level employees shouldn't be permitted to breed...don't forget, if the peasants aren't allowed to breed they'll eventually die out, and then you'll be stuck trying to get the emancipation proclaimation reversed so you can get your slaves back. Wouldn't it just be easier to let the peasants breed?
In a land as rich as America, where the top 1% hold 33% of the wealth, we can afford to have a little wealth redistribution so that the basic needs of the least of us can be met. We have people who have no place to sleep and nothing to eat, and then we have billionaires who have a different yacht for each day of the week, who have more money than they have spoiled children to blow it on cocaine and $1000 purses.
I know that when you hear talk like this you probably imagine that I am trying to suggest that YOU should have to do with less so that others can have more, and I'll bet that's because YOU actually think that YOU are a member of the upper class. You at least think that you are a member of the middle class, right?
I hate to burst your bubble, but if you are sitting in a boating chatroom on Saturday instead of dropping one of your mistresses off on Rodeo Drive and then jumping into your private helicopter to go meet with the Trilateral Commission, you aren't a member of the upper class.
I know you have a watercraft and an LCD screen TV in your SUV, and maybe you even own a few pieces of property, but you are most likely a petty bourgeois who is proud of the basic luxuries that you are able to afford. You are made to feel like you are member of the upper middle class so that you will vote with the interests of the upper class in mind, but trust me, if we were to redistribute the wealth of this nation, more than 90% of us would gain, not lose. The distribution of wealth is THAT lopsided, so stop worrying about the common people running off with all your precious treasures, you'd benefit too.
Homeless

[cdog]

None of the Demos will get my vote.
Rudy sound good
rudys a demorat in a republicans suit. That guy's a douche bag. Fuk rudy! Either give me a real republican or prepare for hitlery.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/clinton_hillary_eatsbabies.jpg

[WestTNRiverRat]

Where do you homeless people get all the good weed?
I can tell you're as fuked up as a tree lizard. :D

[redneckcharlie]

Democrats are trying to make it EASIER to get benefits for your employees if you're a small business owner. Two of the top Republican contenders (Romney and Huckabee) are intimating that they'd make it mandatory for people to buy thier own health insurance, and Romney has already made it mandatory for people to buy their own health insurance as the governor of Massachusetts. If that's going to happen, what's the difference?
If you want to get right down to it, Dems are the only ones talking about having a government funded public healthcare system, which would finally take the burden of providing health insurance off of the employer, and wouldn't that be good?
FMLA: An employer covered by FMLA is any person engaged in commerce or
in any industry or activity affecting commerce, who employs 50 or more
employees for each working day during each of 20 or more calendar
workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year. In other words, if you don't employ at least 50 employees, it doesn't apply to you. Surely if you can employ 50 people you can make arrangements to let the ones who have just given birth take a few weeks off, can't you? As an employer you are entitled to expect certain things from employees, but do you REALLY think you're entitled to expect them to shoot out babies on their lunch break and be back on the clock by 1PM? Where are YOUR family values?
Surely you must agree that even an unskilled entry level employee should be able to take care of their family, unless you are of the opinion that unskilled entry level employees shouldn't be permitted to breed...don't forget, if the peasants aren't allowed to breed they'll eventually die out, and then you'll be stuck trying to get the emancipation proclaimation reversed so you can get your slaves back. Wouldn't it just be easier to let the peasants breed?
In a land as rich as America, where the top 1% hold 33% of the wealth, we can afford to have a little wealth redistribution so that the basic needs of the least of us can be met. We have people who have no place to sleep and nothing to eat, and then we have billionaires who have a different yacht for each day of the week, who have more money than they have spoiled children to blow it on cocaine and $1000 purses.
I know that when you hear talk like this you probably imagine that I am trying to suggest that YOU should have to do with less so that others can have more, and I'll bet that's because YOU actually think that YOU are a member of the upper class. You at least think that you are a member of the middle class, right?
I hate to burst your bubble, but if you are sitting in a boating chatroom on Saturday instead of dropping one of your mistresses off on Rodeo Drive and then jumping into your private helicopter to go meet with the Trilateral Commission, you aren't a member of the upper class.
I know you have a watercraft and an LCD screen TV in your SUV, and maybe you even own a few pieces of property, but you are most likely a petty bourgeois who is proud of the basic luxuries that you are able to afford. You are made to feel like you are member of the upper middle class so that you will vote with the interests of the upper class in mind, but trust me, if we were to redistribute the wealth of this nation, more than 90% of us would gain, not lose. The distribution of wealth is THAT lopsided, so stop worrying about the common people running off with all your precious treasures, you'd benefit too.
Homeless
No offense, are you really this naive? A government funded health care system? Why don't you ask someone from Canada, Cuba, or any of the other systems like this how well they run.
On a completely different note, the Dems no there is absolutely no way this will ever be implemented. It is simply a way for them to garner support. Its a classic bait and switch plan. Its no different on the other side of the aisle either.

[cdog]

Democrats are trying to make it EASIER to get benefits for your employees if you're a small business owner. Two of the top Republican contenders (Romney and Huckabee) are intimating that they'd make it mandatory for people to buy thier own health insurance, and Romney has already made it mandatory for people to buy their own health insurance as the governor of Massachusetts. If that's going to happen, what's the difference?
If you want to get right down to it, Dems are the only ones talking about having a government funded public healthcare system, which would finally take the burden of providing health insurance off of the employer, and wouldn't that be good?
FMLA: An employer covered by FMLA is any person engaged in commerce or
in any industry or activity affecting commerce, who employs 50 or more
employees for each working day during each of 20 or more calendar
workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year. In other words, if you don't employ at least 50 employees, it doesn't apply to you. Surely if you can employ 50 people you can make arrangements to let the ones who have just given birth take a few weeks off, can't you? As an employer you are entitled to expect certain things from employees, but do you REALLY think you're entitled to expect them to shoot out babies on their lunch break and be back on the clock by 1PM? Where are YOUR family values?
Surely you must agree that even an unskilled entry level employee should be able to take care of their family, unless you are of the opinion that unskilled entry level employees shouldn't be permitted to breed...don't forget, if the peasants aren't allowed to breed they'll eventually die out, and then you'll be stuck trying to get the emancipation proclaimation reversed so you can get your slaves back. Wouldn't it just be easier to let the peasants breed?
In a land as rich as America, where the top 1% hold 33% of the wealth, we can afford to have a little wealth redistribution so that the basic needs of the least of us can be met. We have people who have no place to sleep and nothing to eat, and then we have billionaires who have a different yacht for each day of the week, who have more money than they have spoiled children to blow it on cocaine and $1000 purses.
I know that when you hear talk like this you probably imagine that I am trying to suggest that YOU should have to do with less so that others can have more, and I'll bet that's because YOU actually think that YOU are a member of the upper class. You at least think that you are a member of the middle class, right?
I hate to burst your bubble, but if you are sitting in a boating chatroom on Saturday instead of dropping one of your mistresses off on Rodeo Drive and then jumping into your private helicopter to go meet with the Trilateral Commission, you aren't a member of the upper class.
I know you have a watercraft and an LCD screen TV in your SUV, and maybe you even own a few pieces of property, but you are most likely a petty bourgeois who is proud of the basic luxuries that you are able to afford. You are made to feel like you are member of the upper middle class so that you will vote with the interests of the upper class in mind, but trust me, if we were to redistribute the wealth of this nation, more than 90% of us would gain, not lose. The distribution of wealth is THAT lopsided, so stop worrying about the common people running off with all your precious treasures, you'd benefit too.
Homeless
Cuba is only 90 miles from Key West. I think your canoe will make it.:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Democrats are trying to make it EASIER to get benefits for your employees if you're a small business owner. Two of the top Republican contenders (Romney and Huckabee) are intimating that they'd make it mandatory for people to buy thier own health insurance, and Romney has already made it mandatory for people to buy their own health insurance as the governor of Massachusetts. If that's going to happen, what's the difference?
If you want to get right down to it, Dems are the only ones talking about having a government funded public healthcare system, which would finally take the burden of providing health insurance off of the employer, and wouldn't that be good?
FMLA: An employer covered by FMLA is any person engaged in commerce or
in any industry or activity affecting commerce, who employs 50 or more
employees for each working day during each of 20 or more calendar
workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year. In other words, if you don't employ at least 50 employees, it doesn't apply to you. Surely if you can employ 50 people you can make arrangements to let the ones who have just given birth take a few weeks off, can't you? As an employer you are entitled to expect certain things from employees, but do you REALLY think you're entitled to expect them to shoot out babies on their lunch break and be back on the clock by 1PM? Where are YOUR family values?
Surely you must agree that even an unskilled entry level employee should be able to take care of their family, unless you are of the opinion that unskilled entry level employees shouldn't be permitted to breed...don't forget, if the peasants aren't allowed to breed they'll eventually die out, and then you'll be stuck trying to get the emancipation proclaimation reversed so you can get your slaves back. Wouldn't it just be easier to let the peasants breed?
In a land as rich as America, where the top 1% hold 33% of the wealth, we can afford to have a little wealth redistribution so that the basic needs of the least of us can be met. We have people who have no place to sleep and nothing to eat, and then we have billionaires who have a different yacht for each day of the week, who have more money than they have spoiled children to blow it on cocaine and $1000 purses.
I know that when you hear talk like this you probably imagine that I am trying to suggest that YOU should have to do with less so that others can have more, and I'll bet that's because YOU actually think that YOU are a member of the upper class. You at least think that you are a member of the middle class, right?
I hate to burst your bubble, but if you are sitting in a boating chatroom on Saturday instead of dropping one of your mistresses off on Rodeo Drive and then jumping into your private helicopter to go meet with the Trilateral Commission, you aren't a member of the upper class.
I know you have a watercraft and an LCD screen TV in your SUV, and maybe you even own a few pieces of property, but you are most likely a petty bourgeois who is proud of the basic luxuries that you are able to afford. You are made to feel like you are member of the upper middle class so that you will vote with the interests of the upper class in mind, but trust me, if we were to redistribute the wealth of this nation, more than 90% of us would gain, not lose. The distribution of wealth is THAT lopsided, so stop worrying about the common people running off with all your precious treasures, you'd benefit too.
Homeless
I haven't heard a clear enough plan from any of the Dems to be able to say for sure that I could back their Universal Health care plans. I know from experience that health care is our Company's largest expense. Right now we are at about 120 people and our monthly health care premium is over $50K.
Seems to me that those in Congress have the best heath care available and it is Govt run. Many other Countries Universal Health Care and it works quite well. The heath care system in the Country is broken badly, and leaving it at status quo isn't going to fix it. I would be willing to try any viable alternative to what we have now.
No offense, are you really this naive? A government funded health care system? Why don't you ask someone from Canada, Cuba, or any of the other systems like this how well they run.
On a completely different note, the Dems no there is absolutely no way this will ever be implemented. It is simply a way for them to garner support. Its a classic bait and switch plan. Its no different on the other side of the aisle either.
Charlie,
I know quite a few folks from Canada who are very happy with their Health Care System. Maybe Tom Brown and some of the Canadian HB guys will chime in. It may be you who is being naive

[redneckcharlie]

I'm curious, and this isn't a loaded question. What do you guys think is wrong with the health care in our country? Is it price, what, please be specific.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'm curious, and this isn't a loaded question. What do you guys think is wrong with the health care in our country? Is it price, what, please be specific.
Health Care in the US is run by insurance companies and not providers.
Quality in some cases.
Cost of care
Cost of coverage
Cost of prescription drugs

[redneckcharlie]

Health Care in the US is run by insurance companies and not providers.
Quality in some cases.
Cost of care
Cost of coverage
Cost of prescription drugs
I'd agree with you guys in some areas. That last prescription drug act was a complete joke. Well thats not true, its a huge windfall for the drug companies. The cost of coverage has alot to do with the cost of the service provided. I'm not quite sure how you would fix this one. I would think some kind of oversite would be a good start. Unfortunately for most things, when the government gets involved it makes things much worse!

[Outnumbered]

HomelessinAZ AKA Robin Hood is a perfect example of why this country is doomed. Liberals like him think the hard working people who are most successful don't deserve to keep what they have and should give it to the "less fortunate" by government mandate--redistribution of wealth.
The more you penalize or prohibit success the less likely people are to strive to succeed. Tax the "rich" and give to the "poor" is Socialism. Socialism is not what this country was founded upon.
We are the most charitable nation in the world by choice, the truly needy will be taken care of by private foundations and charities by choice, not under government mandate. We do not need the Feds to force us to give to the "needy". If left with enough discretionary income (not taxed to death) we will give to charity. We are compassionate people in the USA.
If I am going to pay for a government funded health care system, why not a government funded transportation system, computer system, food system, etc? Where does it end? To think government funded health care helps small business is laughable. I guess the care is FREE and no one has to pay for it:rolleyes: It just magically appears.
No one in this country is going without emergency health care. The Dems use the scare tactics to push their Socialist plans. Even the illegals get free health care. There are no people being turned away at emergency rooms to go die in the street.
Homeless is preaching straight out of the Move-on.org playbook. If makes me sick to think that people like him are for real. In fact, HomelessinAZ scares me.

[Troy McClure]

If you want to get right down to it, Dems are the only ones talking about having a government funded public healthcare system, which would finally take the burden of providing health insurance off of the employer, and wouldn't that be good?
Homeless
You're Libertarian? Please show me where Gov't run ANYTHING is part of the Libertarian's agenda. Come on, at least get your arguments/beliefs straight:rolleyes:

[WestTNRiverRat]

Liberalism: The haunting fear that somebody, somewhere, may be able to help themselves.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'd agree with you guys in some areas. That last prescription drug act was a complete joke. Well thats not true, its a huge windfall for the drug companies. The cost of coverage has alot to do with the cost of the service provided. I'm not quite sure how you would fix this one. I would think some kind of oversite would be a good start. Unfortunately for most things, when the government gets involved it makes things much worse!
Charlie,
There are a few areas that need work, and one being tort reform., The legal system keeps medical practice insurance high, which of course, trickles down like everything else. The Govt seems to do a decent job with health care for the VA,. Not sure way everyone would be so against expanding a similar system. IMO, the insurance system is worse than the Govt. Again, just my opinion. I'm really pissed at Bush for his his Medicare prescription drug program that doesn't allow Medicare to negotiate prices with drug Companies. In many cases Medicare is paying 1500 % more than the VA for the same drug. A**hole :)
HomelessinAZ AKA Robin Hood is a perfect example of why this country is doomed. Liberals like him think the hard working people who are most successful don't deserve to keep what they have and should give it to the "less fortunate" by government mandate--redistribution of wealth.
The more you penalize or prohibit success the less likely people are to strive to succeed. Tax the "rich" and give to the "poor" is Socialism. Socialism is not what this country was founded upon.
We are the most charitable nation in the world by choice, the truly needy will be taken care of by private foundations and charities by choice, not under government mandate. We do not need the Feds to force us to give to the "needy". If left with enough discretionary income (not taxed to death) we will give to charity. We are compassionate people in the USA.
If I am going to pay for a government funded health care system, why not a government funded transportation system, computer system, food system, etc? Where does it end? To think government funded health care helps small business is laughable. I guess the care is FREE and no one has to pay for it:rolleyes: It just magically appears.
No one in this country is going without emergency health care. The Dems use the scare tactics to push their Socialist plans. Even the illegals get free health care. There are no people being turned away at emergency rooms to go die in the street.
Homeless is preaching straight out of the Move-on.org playbook. If makes me sick to think that people like him are for real. In fact, HomelessinAZ scares me.
We pay for a Govt funded Police Department, Fire Department and many other services. Nothing is free, obviuosly. Everyone would pay for Health Care as most do already.

[Troy McClure]

I hate to burst your bubble, but if you are sitting in a boating chatroom on Saturday instead of dropping one of your mistresses off on Rodeo Drive and then jumping into your private helicopter to go meet with the Trilateral Commission, you aren't a member of the upper class.
Homeless
I guess I could pick apart your comments all day here but this is the last one.
Although you are right, I'm definitely NOT upper class....YET....:confused: :D
Take away the incentive though, and THINK why bother.....:(

[Rvr Swpr]

Whoever runs against Mrs. Clinton is going to have to go up against both Mrs. Clinton and Mr.Clinton. Hell,he is campaighning already and saying he will be in all cabinet meetings.Plus Obama will be the V.P. on the ticket. The republicans are in for a tough run.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Whoever runs against Mrs. Clinton is going to have to go up against both Mrs. Clinton and Mr.Clinton. Hell,he is campaighning already and saying he will be in all cabinet meetings.Plus Obama will be the V.P. on the ticket. The republicans are in for a tough run.
I agree.

[Froggystyle]

You do realize you're insulting 50% of the population (or more), idiot?
Yeah, but it is the dumb 50% so we should be OK... ;)

[Froggystyle]

Why did you say that Democrats don't have the interests of small business owners in mind? Can you give a specific example of something that a Democrat has done that hurts small business interests?
Homeless
Corporate tax on top of state income tax for starters. Double taxation for small business owners and anyone who invests in them. How about the aforementioned health care plan... STAY OUT OF MY HEALTH CARE PLANNING!!!! The way they are trying to "help" the small businessman is to mandate that we provide health care...
We don't need that kind of help. We need less regulation, less taxation, less burden on our productivity, more rights for legal workers, less rights for illegal ones, aggressive pursuit of illegal labor employers and realistic environmental requirements... for starters...

[Rvr Swpr]

TRIDENT goes back to the top of the list,for now

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Corporate tax on top of state income tax for starters. Double taxation for small business owners and anyone who invests in them. How about the aforementioned health care plan... STAY OUT OF MY HEALTH CARE PLANNING!!!! The way they are trying to "help" the small businessman is to mandate that we provide health care...
We don't need that kind of help. We need less regulation, less taxation, less burden on our productivity, more rights for legal workers, less rights for illegal ones, aggressive pursuit of illegal labor employers and realistic environmental requirements... for starters...
Businesses should not be required to provide health care. As I said, health care cost us $50K a month. the system is broken.

[redneckcharlie]

Yeah, but it is the dumb 50% so we should be OK... ;)
LMFAO! Thats great! :D

[Excessive Force]

Richard Prior <NONE OF THE ABOVE>...

[Froggystyle]

Businesses should not be required to provide health care. As I said, health care cost us $50K a month. the system is broken.
Broken is the first word you would think of... followed by a hundred other ones that would probably be censored on here...
What I wish would happen just won't, but I swear that if I ever get enough money to run a stand-alone campaign without the need for special interest investment I am going to either run myself or put someone more qualified as the head of the "Realist" party and destroy both the Republican and Democrat strangleholds.
With a political philosophy based loosely on "jack up the fan belt and drive under a new car" I think you could really start to make headway.

[redneckcharlie]

[QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2933723]Charlie,
There are a few areas that need work, and one being tort reform., The legal system keeps medical practice insurance high, which of course, trickles down like everything else. The Govt seems to do a decent job with health care for the VA,. Not sure way everyone would be so against expanding a similar system. IMO, the insurance system is worse than the Govt. Again, just my opinion. I'm really pissed at Bush for his his Medicare prescription drug program that doesn't allow Medicare to negotiate prices with drug Companies. In many cases Medicare is paying 1500 % more than the VA for the same drug. A**hole :)
I completely agree with you on the bs and that Medicare program. The taxpayers took it completely on that one. I haven't had a nice thing to say to my representatives since then. Not everyone that is conservative totally agrees with what goes on, atleast I don't. But being self employed, the last thing I want is more government for me and my business. The amount of government red tape I deal with on a daily basis is extremely frustrating. I just can't imagine anything good coming from the Feds telling me how I'm going to take care of my own health.
As for being naive about the health care system in Canada, my Uncles family is from Quebec, and I've never heard him or anybody else in his family say anything good about their system. They all tell of extremely long lengths of time trying to see physicians. But like most people, everybody has different experiences.

[beaverretriever]

Mike Huckabee

[redneckcharlie]

I forgot, you couldn't be any more correct with Tort Reform Ultra26! That would be a good start for alot of the problems in this country.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I completely agree with you on the bs and that Medicare program. The taxpayers took it completely on that one. I haven't had a nice thing to say to my representatives since then. Not everyone that is conservative totally agrees with what goes on, atleast I don't. But being self employed, the last thing I want is more government for me and my business. The amount of government red tape I deal with on a daily basis is extremely frustrating. I just can't imagine anything good coming from the Feds telling me how I'm going to take care of my own health.
As for being naive about the health care system in Canada, my Uncles family is from Quebec, and I've never heard him or anybody else in his family say anything good about their system. They all tell of extremely long lengths of time trying to see physicians. But like most people, everybody has different experiences.
Again, maybe Tom Brown and others from Canada will give us their opinion.

[HDF WATERDOG]

I'd say Ultra 26 seems to know what he's talking about. I'm just a small business owner and I'm getting hammered bad by the current laws on medical. I should finished med school and never practiced. Hang the shingle and charge $100 plus to refer to another Dr.

[Rvr Swpr]

Mike Huckabee
Huckabee made a serious mistake letting that convicted rapist out of prison,less than a year later the guy kills two women.Read th history on it. Huckabee should have stayed out of it.

[sanger rat]

I'm leaning just a little towards Paul. :D
Nice Avatar!:D

[Outnumbered]

Corporate tax on top of state income tax for starters. Double taxation for small business owners and anyone who invests in them. How about the aforementioned health care plan... STAY OUT OF MY HEALTH CARE PLANNING!!!! The way they are trying to "help" the small businessman is to mandate that we provide health care...
We don't need that kind of help. We need less regulation, less taxation, less burden on our productivity, more rights for legal workers, less rights for illegal ones, aggressive pursuit of illegal labor employers and realistic environmental requirements... for starters...
Great points Froggy. I have always said that until you direct your own company and write those large checks out to the IRS etc, you really have no idea how prohibitive the government makes it to succeed. People always seem to envy those that work for themselves as if it makes them an automatic success. We work hard, take risks, employ, and produce. Then people like HomelessinAZ think we should "share the wealth" with mooches like him who want Uncle Sam to pay their way.:mad:

[Troy McClure]

Again, maybe Tom Brown and others from Canada will give us their opinion.
OR, just read up on it yourself...socialized health care??
Here's a quick one... http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/hl856.cfm
A quote from the article...
"...in a system in which health services are free at the point of consumption, queuing is the most common form of rationing scarce medical resources. And since patient satisfaction plays no part in determining incomes or other economic rewards for health care providers and administrators in the public system, patients' time is treated as if it has no value. There are no penalties in the system for making people wait."
Sound a little like the CA DMV? Really want our Gov't to run your health care?

[homelessinaz]

Here's a quick one... http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/hl856.cfm
Really want our Gov't to run your health care?
Oh, the heritage foundation? Gee, THEY'VE got no reason to be biased about this issue, have they?
The Heritage Foundation is a bought and paid for arm of the Republican Party. The only thing they care about when taking policy positions is attempting to sound more right wing than their competition, the Cato institute.
Don't believe me? Follow the money:
Major donors
In 1973, businessman Joseph Coors contributed a quarter-million dollars to start The Heritage Foundation. Since then, money has come from the founders of Amway Corp. and the conservative Bradley, Olin and Scaife foundations. Billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife and other wealthy individuals also have been Heritage Foundation donors.
Corporate support
Heritage has received support from nearly 100 major corporations, including Chase Manhattan Bank, Dow Chemical Company, Ford Motor Company, General Motors, GlaxoSmithKline, Mobil, and Procter & Gamble.
Foreign support and relations
Heritage's 1995 annual report acknowledges a $400,000 grant from the Korean conglomerate Samsung. Another donor, the Korea Foundation, which receives money from the South Korean government, has given Heritage almost $1 million.
Did you see that part about Amway being a major supporter? Gee, that's a solid reliable ethical bunch, I sure THEY just want what's best for the common man.
You know what, all it takes to maintain the status quo of our inadequate health care system is for people like you to rely upon and spread the cyncial message of,"Our government is incompetent, just look at the potholes". As long as big insurance and big pharmacutical can keep you hamstrung with this line of bogosity, they'll be assured of having an eternal LOCK on the health care monopoly.
Homeless

[SangerDoug1]

Oh, the heritage foundation? Gee, THEY'VE got no reason to be biased about this issue, have they?
The Heritage Foundation is a bought and paid for arm of the Republican Party. The only thing they care about when taking policy positions is attempting to sound more right wing than their competition, the Cato institute.
Don't believe me? Follow the money:
Major donors
In 1973, businessman Joseph Coors contributed a quarter-million dollars to start The Heritage Foundation. Since then, money has come from the founders of Amway Corp. and the conservative Bradley, Olin and Scaife foundations. Billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife and other wealthy individuals also have been Heritage Foundation donors.
Corporate support
Heritage has received support from nearly 100 major corporations, including Chase Manhattan Bank, Dow Chemical Company, Ford Motor Company, General Motors, GlaxoSmithKline, Mobil, and Procter & Gamble.
Foreign support and relations
Heritage's 1995 annual report acknowledges a $400,000 grant from the Korean conglomerate Samsung. Another donor, the Korea Foundation, which receives money from the South Korean government, has given Heritage almost $1 million.
Did you see that part about Amway being a major supporter? Gee, that's a solid reliable ethical bunch, I sure THEY just want what's best for the common man.
You know what, all it takes to maintain the status quo of our inadequate health care system is for people like you to rely upon and spread the cyncial message of,"Our government is incompetent, just look at the potholes". As long as big insurance and big pharmacutical can keep you hamstrung with this line of bogosity, they'll be assured of having an eternal LOCK on the health care monopoly.
Homeless
Total BS.
I don't think I'd want the same people who run the DMV and the IRS to have anything to do with my healthcare.
The Government IS incompitent!!! 100%
Who in there right mind would want government involved in every aspect of our lives???

[homelessinaz]

People always seem to envy those that work for themselves as if it makes them an automatic success. We work hard, take risks, employ, and produce. Then people like HomelessinAZ think we should "share the wealth" with mooches like him who want Uncle Sam to pay their way.:mad:
You know what petty small business owners like you are? You are nothing but a buffer between the real business elites of this country, the TRUE Establishment, and the teaming masses of people who work too hard for too little to benefit too few. Because there are enough bootlicking sellouts like yourself walking around pacified because you got your little piece of the pie there is an illusion that "anyone can make it in the USA". If that was true then 1% of the population wouldn't hold 33% of the wealth, while the other 99% were encouraged to fight each other over differences of race and class.
Yeah, Mr. Main Street Pickle Vendor puffing up his chest with pride at all the taxes you pay and how you're the "backbone of America". Whatever. Most likely you are some guy who pays undocumented immigrants a slave's wage to ride around in the back of your pickup truck and blow leaves all day. I'm sure after you drop them back off in front of Home Depot you probably crank up the Sean Hannity Show on your AM radio and nod your head in agreement about how we need to close the border...but leave behind a few of those little brown boys who work so cheap and require no health care benefits.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Total BS.
I don't think I'd want the same people who run the DMV and the IRS to have anything to do with my healthcare.
The Government IS incompitent!!! 100%
Who in there right mind would want government involved in every aspect of our lives???
You know what, I'll give you partial credit here, because I am guessing you got a basic government education...
...and I DAMN SURE don't want whoever it was who taught you to read and write to be in charge of my healthcare!
Someone please explain that joke to Sanger Doug when you get a chance.
Why can't people like you ever look on the bright side of the government's ability to do a job right? Hey, there's that great military you all love so much, that's a government program.
Isn't that surge something else? If they can pull off a surge like that, who know's what that old guv'ment is capable of?
You are barely worth arguing with, I'm done with you. Someone bring on STV Keith, at least his arguments are worth half a shit.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Seems to me that those in Congress have the best heath care available and it is Govt run. Many other Countries Universal Health Care and it works quite well. The heath care system in the Country is broken badly, and leaving it at status quo isn't going to fix it. I would be willing to try any viable alternative to what we have now.
EXACTLY!!! My niece (4 years old) went to the doctor to have her neck looked at because she woke up in terrible pain and her mom was worried that she might have meningitis. A doctor saw her for less than 5 minutes, sent her home with a sugar-free sucker and sent a bill for $341!!! Their insurance paid for most of it, my sister was left with a $34.10 bill to pay, but how does he get away with charging that much? Most people won't squawk about it because their insurance pays most of it. That's part of the reason that the healthcare system is so screwed up, because we accept a $341 bill because our insurance companies pay most of it.
If Congress can get healthcare and retirement for life, if we can keep all those Soldiers immunized and healthy, if we can pour out BILLIONS on useless and redundant weapons systems that can NEVER be used, I think we can find enough in the budget for something as important as the health of our citizens.
No one ever seems to mention that what we pay in increased taxes we'll save in the form of healthcare premiums.
Homeless

[Outnumbered]

You know what petty small business owners like you are? You are nothing but a buffer between the real business elites of this country, the TRUE Establishment, and the teaming masses of people who work too hard for too little to benefit too few. Because there are enough bootlicking sellouts like yourself walking around pacified because you got your little piece of the pie there is an illusion that "anyone can make it in the USA". If that was true then 1% of the population wouldn't hold 33% of the wealth, while the other 99% were encouraged to fight each other over differences of race and class.
Yeah, Mr. Main Street Pickle Vendor puffing up his chest with pride at all the taxes you pay and how you're the "backbone of America". Whatever. Most likely you are some guy who pays undocumented immigrants a slave's wage to ride around in the back of your pickup truck and blow leaves all day. I'm sure after you drop them back off in front of Home Depot you probably crank up the Sean Hannity Show on your AM radio and nod your head in agreement about how we need to close the border...but leave behind a few of those little brown boys who work so cheap and require no health care benefits.
Homeless
Yes, I have 12 illegal Mexican appraisers working for me. My clients love it when they show up at the house in their primer color Pinto and pick their weeds as they measure the house. It's a little extra service we offer to bump out the competition.;)
Your comments above show just how ignorant and hopelessly sad you really are.

[Outnumbered]

Anyone else think that Homeless is Blown472 undercover?

[SangerDoug1]

You know what, I'll give you partial credit here, because I am guessing you got a basic government education...
...and I DAMN SURE don't want whoever it was who taught you to read and write to be in charge of my healthcare!
Someone please explain that joke to Sanger Doug when you get a chance.
Why can't people like you ever look on the bright side of the government's ability to do a job right? Hey, there's that great military you all love so much, that's a government program.
Isn't that surge something else? If they can pull off a surge like that, who know's what that old guv'ment is capable of?
You are barely worth arguing with, I'm done with you. Someone bring on STV Keith, at least his arguments are worth half a shit.
Homeless
Don't dictate how a system that you don't pay into should work.
Why should Government provide healthcare???
We need less governmnet in this country not more.
Who is to pay for your sociialistic healthcare system?
And thanks for bringing up the schools in this country. If the healthcare system was run anything like the education system (which it would) you would have malpractice lawsuits clogging up our fvcked up judicial system.
Hey Homeless, get a job, move out of your parents basement and start paying your way. Until them don't tell me how YOU think the government should spend MY money.

[homelessinaz]

There are a few areas that need work, and one being tort reform. The legal system keeps medical practice insurance high, which of course, trickles down like everything else.
That's one of those explanations that people hear and accept at face value because it sounds right. It just has a certain "truthiness" to it that makes people think that there's no reason to verify the claim.
"It must be true, because it sounds true".
Dartmouth economists studied the issue between 1991 and 2003 and found it wasn't true that doctor's insurance rates were going up due to awards on malpractice suits. Doctor's insurance rates were going up because insurance companies weren't making enough profit. This is an area that is SCREAMING for government oversight and government regulation, and imagine how much easier that would be if government provided healthcare.
Bush (to his credit), actually proposed a $250,000 cap on noneconomic damages and made the cap a key component of his malpractice reform proposal.
Here is the link if you're interested in reading it yourself:
http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2005/06/01/rising_doctors_premiums_not_due_to_lawsuit_awards/
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Don't dictate how a system that you don't pay into should work.
Why should Government provide healthcare???
We need less governmnet in this country not more.
Who is to pay for your sociialistic healthcare system?
And thanks for bringing up the schools in this country. If the healthcare system was run anything like the education system (which it would) you would have malpractice lawsuits clogging up our fvcked up judicial system.
Hey Homeless, get a job, move out of your parents basement and start paying your way. Until them don't tell me how YOU think the government should spend MY money.
Thank you, Master of Time, Space and Reality for providing a concrete answer about how this as yet unattempted program would fare.
Did I mention you have no idea how to craft an argument? You are great for spouting off trite and over used cliches, but that's about it.
Homeless
P.S. I am sure what I don't pay in taxes is far less than what the government spends prosecuting neanderthals like you for DUI, public intoxication and disorderly conduct at monster truck events.

[homelessinaz]

Anyone else think that Homeless is Blown472 undercover?
Have rexone check, I don't care.

[Outnumbered]

Thank you, Master of Time, Space and Reality for providing a concrete answer about how this as yet unattempted program would fare.
Did I mention you have no idea how to craft an argument? You are great for spouting off trite and over used cliches, but that's about it.
Homeless
P.S. I am sure what I don't pay in taxes is far less than what the government spends prosecuting neanderthals like you for DUI, public intoxication and disorderly conduct at monster truck events.
Your insults make you quite the hypocrite there Homeless. You try to sound so scholarly but you really just look ignorant and naive.

[homelessinaz]

Yes, I have 12 illegal Mexican appraisers working for me. My clients love it when they show up at the house in their primer color Pinto and pick their weeds as they measure the house. It's a little extra service we offer to bump out the competition.;)
Your comments above show just how ignorant and hopelessly sad you really are.
Did you say you're an appraiser? Well then, you're a part of the real estate industry that is built upon fake money and debt held by China, aren't you? In other words, you are the beneficiary of a hollow economy fueled by bad loans. You're also about to be the beneficiary of a socialist like arrangement where the government is going to intecede on behalf of a bunch of no account bums who bit off more than they can chew and tell lenders that they can't have the money they are owed.
Wow, it's something else that you still have the nerve to claim you're a success when this whole real estate market that you deal in is a sham.
Let me ask you about your meteoric rise to mega wealth there sir...did you get your appraiser certification by going to some kind of weekend seminar, or did you slave away in night school for 6 long hard weeks?
That you would sit there and condescend to me because you're a "big time businessman" and I'm just some intellectual leech on society is mindblowing, considering that as far as I know your whole "business empire" is based on looking for cracks in the foundation and figuring out how old someone's water heater is.
Tell me something, do you have the little magnetic sign on the side of your truck, or did you go whole hog and pay for the vinyl wrap? Thanks for weighing in, J.P. Morgan.
Homeless

[Outnumbered]

Have rexone check, I don't care.
Yes, Rexone is part of our Right-Wing special anti-liberal operations team. I will get him on it right away (no pun intended).:rolleyes:
Give me a break. I could give a rat's ass if Blown 472 had 6 screen names on here.

[homelessinaz]

Your insults make you quite the hypocrite there Homeless. You try to sound so scholarly but you really just look ignorant and naive.
Oh yeah?
...people like HomelessinAZ think we should "share the wealth" with mooches like him who want Uncle Sam to pay their way.:mad:
Now you want to have an elevated discussion? If my tone is terse I guess it's because it seems to be the only thing people on this board seem to understand.
Homeless

[earl-bob]

Has Anyone Check Out Bill Richardson? He Is Bad Ass . He Has Been There And Done That! He Is Not Getting E Nuf Pres.

[homelessinaz]

The more you penalize or prohibit success the less likely people are to strive to succeed. Tax the "rich" and give to the "poor" is Socialism. Socialism is not what this country was founded upon.
Yeah, okay, tax the rich and give to the poor is socialism. How does this sound: heap resentment on top of humiliation by taxing the middle class to feed the poor and start a class war between the 99% of us who work for the 1% who hold 33% of the wealth in this nation. As long as we working class people (that includes most everyone on this board I'm willing to bet) allow ourselves to be pitted against one another by petty class distinctions we'll all be servants to the rich forever.
No one in this country is going without emergency health care. The Dems use the scare tactics to push their Socialist plans. Even the illegals get free health care. There are no people being turned away at emergency rooms to go die in the street.
You're absolutely right about that, there is a lot of socialized medicine already in place in America, and somehow we manage to still be the most prosperous nation on Earth, despite the commonly held belief that socialized medicine will bankrupt us.
Go figure, you made my point for me.
Homeless

[Outnumbered]

Did you say you're an appraiser? Well then, you're a part of the real estate industry that is built upon fake money and debt held by China, aren't you? In other words, you are the beneficiary of a hollow economy fueled by bad loans. You're also about to be the beneficiary of a socialist like arrangement where the government is going to intecede on behalf of a bunch of no account bums who bit off more than they can chew and tell lenders that they can't have the money they are owed.
Wow, it's something else that you still have the nerve to claim you're a success when this whole real estate market that you deal in is a sham.
Let me ask you about your meteoric rise to mega wealth there sir...did you get your appraiser certification by going to some kind of weekend seminar, or did you slave away in night school for 6 long hard weeks?
That you would sit there and condescend to me because you're a "big time businessman" and I'm just some intellectual leech on society is mindblowing, considering that as far as I know your whole "business empire" is based on looking for cracks in the foundation and figuring out how old someone's water heater is.
Tell me something, do you have the little magnetic sign on the side of your truck, or did you go whole hog and pay for the vinyl wrap? Thanks for weighing in, J.P. Morgan.
Homeless
:D :D :D You are so clever, did you think that up yourself?:D
First off, I never claimed to be wealthy or to have any business empire. I am proud of what I have done and have done it for myself and my family without the help of any government program. Part of a "sham"...you are so ignorant. I've been in the biz for 18+ years and have never had a single complaint, investigation, or accusation. The "shamers" in this business don't last more than 5 years at the most.
Secondly, how do I benefit from any bail-out program? You obviously have no idea how the business works.
Third, it takes 2 years to get an appraiser license. Six weeks--You have that confused with RE agent. Again, you are ignorant and have failed to make any sense in your retort.
And finally, you managed to throw that ever so clever insult and personal attack in at the end--classic liberal tactics.
You are fun to mess with. Keep it coming.:D

[homelessinaz]

We pay for a Govt funded Police Department, Fire Department and many other services. Nothing is free, obviuosly. Everyone would pay for Health Care as most do already.
Thanks for that ULTRA26, I appreciate the support.
Interestingly, here in Arizona we've seen a rash of examples of conservative led administrations privatizing even those very crucial government areas you mentioned; police, fire and corrections. Arizona has just instituted statewide use of photo radar enforcement that is contracted out to private parties, we have Rural Metro providing firefighting and ambulance services to municipalities, and Corrections Corporation of America is opening it FIFTH privately owned and operated prison in the state. I guess some righties would just as soon see the office of the President be privatized.
Homeless

[SangerDoug1]

Thank you, Master of Time, Space and Reality for providing a concrete answer about how this as yet unattempted program would fare.
Did I mention you have no idea how to craft an argument? You are great for spouting off trite and over used cliches, but that's about it.
Homeless
P.S. I am sure what I don't pay in taxes is far less than what the government spends prosecuting neanderthals like you for DUI, public intoxication and disorderly conduct at monster truck events.
Again you avoid the questions.
You have no say on taxes since it is something you pay no part in. Please, let the responsable adults tend to the matters at hand. You need not worry about your next meal as I'm sure there enough bleeding heart liberals left in this country that will take care of you forever.

[homelessinaz]

Secondly, how do I benefit from any bail-out program? You obviously have no idea how the business works.
If people aren't buying and selling houses, are you getting money to appraise them? Don't get all swelled with pride because you did it all without guv'ment help when you are in an industry that is being propped up with tax dollars.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Again you avoid the questions.
You have no say on taxes since it is something you pay no part in. Please, let the responsable adults tend to the matters at hand. You need not worry about your next meal as I'm sure there enough bleeding heart liberals left in this country that will take care of you forever.
WHAT QUESTIONS? All I am seeing from you are bellicose proclamations about what would happen if there was socialized medicine.
And, you are incorrect, I have just as much say in how taxes are spent as you do. There is no poll tax, so anyone can vote, and unlike you I actually do vote, even when there's a 'rasslin match on TV.
Homeless

[Outnumbered]

If people aren't buying and selling houses, are you getting money to appraise them? Don't get all swelled with pride because you did it all without guv'ment help when you are in an industry that is being propped up with tax dollars.
Homeless
Why yes I do. In addition to lenders I work for CPA's, attorneys, REO/Repo companies, etc. The work is not all generated from RE sales, in fact very little of mine is. The bail out will have no effect on my business. It is a bogus feel-good program anyway and will have little impact on the market.

[SangerDoug1]

WHAT QUESTIONS? All I am seeing from you are bellicose proclamations about what would happen if there was socialized medicine.
And, you are incorrect, I have just as much say in how taxes are spent as you do. There is no poll tax, so anyone can vote, and unlike you I actually do vote, even when there's a 'rasslin match on TV.
Homeless
The first question is why free health care?
Everyone needs a car, should we give those away to people who don't have them as well. Where does it stop?
Don't you think quality will be in jeprody?
Why do you think the government needs to be up our asses from the time we are born till the time we die?
And no, you have no right to tell me how to spend MY money. I pay thousands every year in taxes where as you pay none. Obviously I am the one that will be paying for YOUR free health care. It's nothing more than legalized robbery. Take what I have worked hard for for years and give it to some pile of shit that is too damn lazy to take care of himself.
It's the freeloaders such as yourself that are ripping this country apart.

[Charley]

HomelessAZ... As a business owner I would rather not start into this battle by slinging mud at you. I only want to say that until you have the responsibility and pressure of having employees and their families that rely on you succeeding in the marketplace., well you probably will never empathize with what we actually do. Every person in this great country has the opportunity to start and operate a business. If the business owner is successful he or she reaps the rewards and too the victor go the spoils. When the Democrats and Liberals want to take the profit out of small business and give it back to the working class via higher wages, mandatory health care etc... all they do is take the incentive out of being a small business owner. Let's take workmans comp for instance... The implimentation was designed to protect the worker, yet it is now so heavily abused and emersed in fraudulant claims that it ultimately just takes money from Honest hard workers pockets... in other words when a big chunk of the profit goes to an overpriced insurance riddled with fraud by low life pu$$ies who wanna take the system for a ride... Honest Joe doesnt get his well deserved raise this year. Owning a business is tough enough even when you are killing it in your industry.... take away the "lotto style" financial incentive of being a successful business owner and you will have country full of workers and no one seeing the reason to take the risk and stress of starting a business! No Thanks!! Capitalism works, let it work

[earl-bob]

Well Said.

[Outnumbered]

HomelessAZ... As a business owner I would rather not start into this battle by slinging mud at you. I only want to say that until you have the responsibility and pressure of having employees and their families that rely on you succeeding in the marketplace., well you probably will never empathize with what we actually do. Every person in this great country has the opportunity to start and operate a business. If the business owner is successful he or she reaps the rewards and too the victor go the spoils. When the Democrats and Liberals want to take the profit out of small business and give it back to the working class via higher wages, mandatory health care etc... all they do is take the incentive out of being a small business owner. Let's take workmans comp for instance... The implimentation was designed to protect the worker, yet it is now so heavily abused and emersed in fraudulant claims that it ultimately just takes money from Honest hard workers pockets... in other words when a big chunk of the profit goes to an overpriced insurance riddled with fraud by low life pu$$ies who wanna take the system for a ride... Honest Joe doesnt get his well deserved raise this year. Owning a business is tough enough even when you are killing it in your industry.... take away the "lotto style" financial incentive of being a successful business owner and you will have country full of workers and no one seeing the reason to take the risk and stress of starting a business! No Thanks!! Capitalism works, let it work
Yes, well said. Thanks for getting back on track with some good solid logic. I was starting to get caught up in his BS--although it was kind of fun.:D

[homelessinaz]

HomelessAZ... As a business owner I would rather not start into this battle by slinging mud at you.
Why, do you feel that "as a business owner" you are better than I am? Seriously, what was that comment all about?
There are plenty of points I could argue in your letter, but in the interest of not rehashing what's already been said I'll pick and choose.
If the business owner is successful he or she reaps the rewards and too the victor go the spoils.
Okay, what I hear you saying here is that it's every man for himself. Where is the brotherhood in that? Where's the national unity and common good in that? Don't give me a bunch of jingoistic rhetoric about "helping my fellow American" if in the end it's going to be every man for himself.
Let's take workmans comp for instance... The implimentation was designed to protect the worker, yet it is now so heavily abused and emersed in fraudulant claims that it ultimately just takes money from Honest hard workers pockets... in other words when a big chunk of the profit goes to an overpriced insurance riddled with fraud by low life pu$$ies who wanna take the system for a ride...
Oh, so my fellow laborer is to blame for the flaws in the workman's comp system? Is that who you blame for the worker's compensation laws? This isn't surprising, because it's a common tactic of capital to try to divide labor against itselflike this; this is just another example. You are trying to get labor to look at fellow laborers as the problem in this situation.
You know, if captial hadn't abused labor in the first place, there would be no need for workers comp laws. The laws were first put on the books in the early 20th century, when business interests were far more overt in asserting their political influence. The workman's compensation laws were enacted because capital wasn't looking out for the interests of labor. If it weren't for the harsh conditions that laborers were forced to endure, and the countless lives lost because of capital's refusal to provide basic safety on the job, there would be no need for workman's comp.
Despite any abuses of the workman's comp system by labor, capital has still been able to turn a nice profit, haven't they? Ultimately, how can you blame labor for trying to exploit the system, given the prevailing "...to the victor go the spoils" laissez faire attitude you espouse?
In other words, if labor is cheating, where do you think they learned to do that?
Capitalism works, let it work
Sure, capitalism works, if what you're trying to do is concentrate the wealth of the many into the hands of the few, it's a great system.
If you are trying to turn working people against one another to the point that they will gladly watch each other's children starve to DEATH in the gutter while they wryly quip, "...to the victor go the spoils..." I can't think of a better system.
Hey, that starving kid's parents couldn't corner the market in their industry, so they really had no right to have kids anyways, did they? Survival of the fittest and all, right?
You raised good quesitons and you took the debate to a deeper level by maintaining a civil discourse, but I have no respect for the capitalist system and never will. It is a system that puts greed above humanity.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

The first question is why free health care?
Everyone needs a car, should we give those away to people who don't have them as well. Where does it stop?
Why free health care? Because I am pro-life, pro-not-dying. Health care saves lives. What kind of a question is that?
Don't you think quality will be in jeprody?
Capitalists will cut corners to increase profits, that's why privatized medicine scares me...that's why quality is in jeopardy when there is a profit motive in medicine. Socializing medicine will improve quality, IMO.
Why do you think the government needs to be up our asses from the time we are born till the time we die?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why is that either the government abandons us or is up our asses from cradle to grave? Can't there be a middle ground?
I pay thousands every year in taxes where as you pay none. Obviously I am the one that will be paying for YOUR free health care. It's nothing more than legalized robbery. Take what I have worked hard for for years and give it to some pile of shit that is too damn lazy to take care of himself.
It's the freeloaders such as yourself that are ripping this country apart.
It's people like you...people who believe that if you aren't turning a profit you have no reason to exist...people who believe that man's highest calling is to make a buck...who exemplify the worst that capitalism has to offer.
By your logic, a devoted housewife and mother is a "pile of shit" because all she does is raise kids and maintain a household, and that doesn't require her to pay taxes. I do a lot of work in my community, and most of it isn't paid, ergo I haven't paid taxes in a few years. I guess that makes me a pile of shit in your eyes, a freeloader.
Homeless

[SangerDoug1]

Why free health care? Because I am pro-life, pro-not-dying. Health care saves lives. What kind of a question is that?
The government doesn't owe you anything. If you are so pro-life, get a job so that you can buy health care and live. You have no entitlements.
Capitalists will cut corners to increase profits, that's why privatized medicine scares me...that's why quality is in jeopardy when there is a profit motive in medicine. Socializing medicine will improve quality, IMO.
You are wrong, the only thing that keeps privatized medicine in buisiness is QUALITY. If the quality sucks, the consumer would just go to the next guy.
With socialized health care you would have people that make 80,000 and under eligable for Healthcare. Why would someone that makes 80,000 a year need government handouts?
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why is that either the government abandons us or is up our asses from cradle to grave? Can't there be a middle ground?
Abandon us???? What are you 12? Do you really need the government telling you what to do and in control of your life?
It's people like you...people who believe that if you aren't turning a profit you have no reason to exist...people who believe that man's highest calling is to make a buck...who exemplify the worst that capitalism has to offer.
Wrong, it's people like me that expect my fellow man to carry his own weight and any weight he has added (children etc.) If I have to work my ass off to pay for my health care and sustain my way of life, then others should be expected to as well.
With the amount of illegals steeling from our country on a daily basis, do you really think it wise to provide free ANYTHING???
By your logic, a devoted housewife and mother is a "pile of shit" because all she does is raise kids and maintain a household, and that doesn't require her to pay taxes. I do a lot of work in my community, and most of it isn't paid, ergo I haven't paid taxes in a few years. I guess that makes me a pile of shit in your eyes, a freeloader.
Homeless
Wrong again....See I have a devoted house wife who raises our children while I'm out earning the bucks. She enables me to earn a good living of which I pay my taxes. We are a team. You (and other freeloaders like you) contribute nothing to the tax base. Your paultry volunteer work (however appreciated) pales into comparrison to the amount your contribution would be if you were employed.
You are obviousley educated.....so get a job and quit defending those who choose not to work but would rather suck off us like the leaches they are.

[SangerDoug1]

Okay, what I hear you saying here is that it's every man for himself. Where is the brotherhood in that? Where's the national unity and common good in that? Don't give me a bunch of jingoistic rhetoric about "helping my fellow American" if in the end it's going to be every man for himself.
Homeless
Where is the brotherhood in people (such as yourself) living off the hard work of others? Why is it the successfull ones are always to blame and the less fortunate are never expected or required to make much of themselves?
And it is the working class and the wealthy that help out more in private charities than any other class. We give and give and give yet the government wants to take more and more and more. When is enough enough? If the unthinkable happends and Free healthcare becomes a reality, what will they want next?
You need to leave the governmental nest and become a man. Do you even have the ability to provide for yourself let alone a family?

[SangerDoug1]

Why, do you feel that "as a business owner" you are better than I am? Seriously, what was that comment all about?
Homeless
Ha ha ha...too easy! Well as a buisiness owner I'm sure he's a better provider. As a better provider he is a better husband, father, friend and contributor to society. He pays taxes, his employess pay taxes etc.
So YES, in many ways he is BETTER than you.

[LEADFOOTjosh]

VOTE FOR PEDRO
http://www.dvdfuture.com/images/upload/napoleon_dynamite.jpg

[Charley]

Why, do you feel that "as a business owner" you are better than I am? Seriously, what was that comment all about?
I honestly don't see where you gathered that from this statement... It was obvious everyone else was ramming on you, I wanted to be clear I wasn't meaning to with my post.
Okay, what I hear you saying here is that it's every man for himself. Where is the brotherhood in that? Where's the national unity and common good in that? Don't give me a bunch of jingoistic rhetoric about "helping my fellow American" if in the end it's going to be every man for himself
The business owner has many responsibilities just two of which are keeping his employees happy and making the business profit and grow. I suppose to address your attack on my "brotherhood" ... well some of my employees act like my brothers, some act like my kids... they each get treated accordingly. I can honestly look at my record and be confident that as my company grew from its humble beginnings I most definitely took better care of my employees and myself.
Oh, so my fellow laborer is to blame for the flaws in the workman's comp system? Is that who you blame for the worker's compensation laws? This isn't surprising, because it's a common tactic of capital to try to divide labor against itselflike this; this is just another example. You are trying to get labor to look at fellow laborers as the problem in this situation.
You must be kidding.... the fat fellow laborer sitting on the couch eating cheatos and putting his fake neckbrace on to grocery shop for more cheatos is who you have to blame for your relationship problems.... oh and yes I know I spelled "Cheatos" wrong
You know, if captial hadn't abused labor in the first place, there would be no need for workers comp laws. The laws were first put on the books in the early 20th century, when business interests were far more overt in asserting their political influence. The workman's compensation laws were enacted because capital wasn't looking out for the interests of labor. If it weren't for the harsh conditions that laborers were forced to endure, and the countless lives lost because of capital's refusal to provide basic safety on the job, there would be no need for workman's comp.
oh I agree that employees need some protection, I just argue the implimentation in this scenario.. it's broke.
Despite any abuses of the workman's comp system by labor, capital has still been able to turn a nice profit, haven't they?
Some do, but once again you are missing the point, at both the consumers and the employees expense
Ultimately, how can you blame labor for trying to exploit the system, given the prevailing "...to the victor go the spoils" laissez faire attitude you espouse? Where do you think the employees learned to cheat
WOW!!! I suppose all my employees problems are my fault too?? like the guy I caught stealing cable from my warehouse to support his meth habit? Or maybe the employee I caught filling up his daughters tank with the company gas card because her boyfriend left her recently and she couldn't make ends meet? 1000 bux in 3 months on that one..Ya... all my fault...:rolleyes:
Sure, capitalism works, if what you're trying to do is concentrate the wealth of the many into the hands of the few, it's a great system.
Your talking about Big business, for the most part I am not.
You raised good quesitons and you took the debate to a deeper level by maintaining a civil discourse, but I have no respect for the capitalist system and never will. It is a system that puts greed above humanity.
Homeless
...and the bleeding heart liberal surfaces :D No offense man I respect your right to your point of view...Best of luck to you HomelessAZ

[Troy McClure]

Oh, the heritage foundation? Gee, THEY'VE got no reason to be biased about this issue, have they?
Sorry, moveon.org didn't have anything that would support my argument. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

OR, just read up on it yourself...socialized health care??
Here's a quick one... http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/hl856.cfm
A quote from the article...
"...in a system in which health services are free at the point of consumption, queuing is the most common form of rationing scarce medical resources. And since patient satisfaction plays no part in determining incomes or other economic rewards for health care providers and administrators in the public system, patients' time is treated as if it has no value. There are no penalties in the system for making people wait."
Sound a little like the CA DMV? Really want our Gov't to run your health care?
As I stated earlier. I know quite a few Canadians who are very happy with their health care and system. Again, I am hoping that Tom Brown or other Canadian HB members will chime in. As I recall past comments have all been positive.
BTW nothing is free.

[Kachina26]

Surely if you can employ 50 people you can make arrangements to let the ones who have just given birth take a few weeks off, can't you? As an employer you are entitled to expect certain things from employees, but do you REALLY think you're entitled to expect them to shoot out babies on their lunch break and be back on the clock by 1PM? Where are YOUR family values?
Homeless
FML, like just about any other program is constantly abused. I've worked at a company that deals with FML for 2 years now, and in that time, I've seen 2 people use it for care of a newborn. While a dozen or more use it when it looks like they are gonna get called on a graveyard shift in the rain or for Friday night poker and the like.
Anyone else think that Homeless is Blown472 undercover?
If Blown could construct an opinion of his own or even a coherent sentence perhaps. Besides, I've not seen the Jews implicated in any wrong doings, so that pretty much eliminates Blown completely.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Why free health care? Because I am pro-life, pro-not-dying. Health care saves lives. What kind of a question is that?
There is no such think as free health care
Capitalists will cut corners to increase profits, that's why privatized medicine scares me...that's why quality is in jeopardy when there is a profit motive in medicine. Socializing medicine will improve quality, IMO.
I agree
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why is that either the government abandons us or is up our asses from cradle to grave? Can't there be a middle ground?
Again I agree
It's people like you...people who believe that if you aren't turning a profit you have no reason to exist...people who believe that man's highest calling is to make a buck...who exemplify the worst that capitalism has to offer.
Hopefully you are worng about this opinion
By your logic, a devoted housewife and mother is a "pile of shit" because all she does is raise kids and maintain a household, and that doesn't require her to pay taxes. I do a lot of work in my community, and most of it isn't paid, ergo I haven't paid taxes in a few years. I guess that makes me a pile of shit in your eyes, a freeloader.
I doubt that this us the case
Homeless
Just my .02

[hkunz]

Charlie,
In many cases Medicare is paying 1500 % more than the VA for the same drug.
Do you get your meds from the VA? I do. They have a VERY limited variety of older medicines. Nothing new. Of the four scripts I will take for the rest of my life, my 100% paid for by the VA medical plan supplies just one. The other three scripts are "too new", even though Blue Cross supplies one of those for free because it is too cheap to charge a co-pay. You really can't use the VA as a comparison to anything else, because the meds aren't really like the ones available elsewhere. That said, my Mom goes to Algadones for her meds because Medicare is too expensive.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Do you get your meds from the VA? I do. They have a VERY limited variety of older medicines. Nothing new. Of the four scripts I will take for the rest of my life, my 100% paid for by the VA medical plan supplies just one. The other three scripts are "too new", even though Blue Cross supplies one of those for free because it is too cheap to charge a co-pay. You really can't use the VA as a comparison to anything else, because the meds aren't really like the ones available elsewhere. That said, my Mom goes to Algadones for her meds because Medicare is too expensive.
You missed the entire point of my post. Bush's Medicare prescription drug bill agrees to pay full retail on all prescription drugs. Medicare is not allowed to negotiate the price. The VA was used as another federal health care system that does negotiate drug prices. This is not the case with private insurers as well. Bush's Medicare drug program was a sell out to American tax payers.

[STV_Keith]

I like a lot of what Ron Paul has to say, but as mentioned previously, I believe he will be made out to be a lunatic/extremist, that will only separate the Republican vote count.
Currently, my check mark goes to Fred Thompson. I like his stand on the 2nd amendment and immigration. He's an atty, so he knows how the system works, and how to work it. Most importantly, I believe he's electable. Unfortunately, he has said that if he isn't the Republican candidate, he won't run as Independent against the others. If he doesn't make it, and RP goes independent, I'd likely vote there.
From the R debate, Romney scares me...reminds me of the Kerry flip flopper. I can see the integrity in McCain, but the other two are better (for me) at this point.
You are barely worth arguing with, I'm done with you. Someone bring on STV Keith, at least his arguments are worth half a shit.
Homeless
Ohh, I see you are up to almost 100 posts now. Between the gun thread the the politics thread, you're on your way. Please leave me out of your rants. I don't care to debate you on any topic, as I don't believe any argument would even get you to think outside your very narrow box. You are as set in your ways as we are in ours, so give up. In my book, you are a lost cause - and you'd do well to consider me the same in your book.
As I've said to you before, prove to me you are a real person, MAN UP and show your face at a boating event, then I and others around here could take you serious enough to debate with. At this point, you are just some captain keyboard who wants to interject your opinion wherever you can. Anyone on this board, trying to join our little community (yes, we are little and fairly tight nit), that doesn't own a vehicle or a BOAT - which this forum is based around - in my opinion is not worth debating with. You won't find me over on canoeingforthehomeless.com, so why do you come here? When you have something to offer to the Hot Boat community, other than your narrow views on society, then try again.

[ekbearly]

Ron Paul

[SB]

Of course you have a valid point about the Heritage Foundation, it doesn't pretend to be anything but right wing. However:
Thank you, Master of Time, Space and Reality for providing a concrete answer about how this as yet unattempted program would fare.
Uh, communism has been tried and it was a complete FAILURE, always, EVERYWHERE it was tried.
You are great for spouting off trite and over used cliches, but that's about it.
Please, you're the one with the manifesto open in front of you while you type.
In a land as rich as America, where the top 1% hold 33% of the wealth, we can afford to have a little wealth redistribution so that the basic needs of the least of us can be met.
Giggle, snort. Try spouting this crap in Eastern Europe, they'd laugh. You could go into the poorest minority neighborhood in the US and be laughed at. And since the thread topics is votes, how many votes did your candidate get in the last election?
We have people who have no place to sleep and nothing to eat,
Uh, no you're wrong again, here in America (capitalist bastards), the poor people are fat, it's the first time in history.
I know you have a watercraft and an LCD screen TV in your SUV, and maybe you even own a few pieces of property, but you are most likely a petty bourgeois
Ha, you said "bourgeois". Ha, ha. You must be pullin' my leg. Nobody says that anymore, even on campus.
but trust me, if we were to redistribute the wealth of this nation, more than 90% of us would gain, not lose. The distribution of wealth is THAT lopsided, so stop worrying about the common people running off with all your precious treasures, you'd benefit too.
Nope wrong again. Your fockin math fockin sucks. Try again. Take all Bill Gates $50 billion away and give it to 300 million people. No effect. Oh, and where did that $ come from? Capitalism?
and then we have billionaires who have a different yacht for each day of the week
All men should have so much. And does it not occur to you that the construction and purchase of a yacht redistibutes wealth from the buyer to the exploited masses who built it?

[SB]

Trying to decide between Ron Paul and McCain.
McCain has suffered for supporting our President on the war and immigration, hardly seems fair. Oh well.

[Troy McClure]

Trying to decide between Ron Paul and McCain.
McCain has suffered for supporting our President on the war and immigration, hardly seems fair. Oh well.
If you saw the Youtube debates, McCain came across as kind of a pompous, war mongering ass. Not that I, necessarily, disagree with his views (except immigration), he just came off looking like a bully. I know that sounds a little weird, just the feeling I got from it.
Paul, on the other hand as others have noted, has some great points but ended up looking a little weak in the debate ( I guess, thanks to McCains bullying?)
Just something I noticed, not supporting one over the other..

[homelessinaz]

As I've said to you before, prove to me you are a real person, MAN UP and show your face at a boating event, then I and others around here could take you serious enough to debate with. At this point, you are just some captain keyboard who wants to interject your opinion wherever you can. Anyone on this board, trying to join our little community (yes, we are little and fairly tight nit), that doesn't own a vehicle or a BOAT - which this forum is based around - in my opinion is not worth debating with. You won't find me over on canoeingforthehomeless.com, so why do you come here? When you have something to offer to the Hot Boat community, other than your narrow views on society, then try again.
ROFLMAO!!! Oh, quit playin'! No, seriously man, I think people are starting to see through our whole "Keith and Homeless pretend to be enemies" charade!!! It was good while it lasted, and we had some laughs behind their backs, but I can't keep it up. That was good though, wasn't it?
Hey, my old lady wanted me to tell you that you left that casserole dish at our house on Sunday. I emptied out the enchiladas (MINE!) and washed it. Either I can drop it off at your place on my way home tomorrow, or you can just pick it up at my place. I guess if I don't see you before the Christmas party (DON'T FORGET) I'll just give it back to you then.
Take it easy Bro!
"Homeless"

[homelessinaz]

"Uh, communism has been tried and it was a complete FAILURE, always, EVERYWHERE it was tried."
This is crap, there are plenty of places that are still run by socialist style governments. Had the US CIA not interfered in the affairs of countries like Nicaragua, El Salvador and Cuba, there is no telling how much more well off the citizens of these countries would be. Venezuela and China are both countries that have socialist style governments and who are doing well enough to have favorable trade balances with us.
Finally, if communist/socialist/collectivist theory was such a miserable failure, would it be catching on here in the US the way it is? More and more in this country average citizens, the working class and the prolatariat are demanding that leaders (and those who would seek leadership) offer solutions to our problems that are based on the wealthy sharing with the poor.
What I am saying is that whether or not you realize it, whether or not you like it, and even as you stand there day after day being proud of your country for "winning the cold war", your country, OUR COUNTRY is moving away from this cold hearted "every man for himself" mentality and toward group solutions to group problems. If you don't like it, you can't really do much about it, because both parties are likely to nominate someone this election cycle who, when viewed objectively, would likely seem as socialist.
If capitalism was superior to collectivism, countries like the US wouldn't be moving towards socialism. Even though the USSR has fallen, it's legacy lives on. Make no mistake, it's happening, deal with it. I don't know how old you are, but if you are around in 50 years you'll see that the country you're living in will look more like the country I am endorsing, not the one you'd like to see.
"Uh, no you're wrong again, here in America (capitalist bastards), the poor people are fat, it's the first time in history."
People are getting fatter, but they are also getting more and more malnourished from eating McDonald's 3 or 4 days a week. Fatter doesn't mean healthier of more well nourished.
"Bill Gates $50 billion away and give it to 300 million people. No effect. Oh, and where did that $ come from? Capitalism?"
Wasn't Bill Gates's wealth determined to be a product of an illegal monopoly that violated anti-trust laws? This goes back to my point about the winners in a capitalist society being the cheaters.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

Where is the brotherhood in people (such as yourself) living off the hard work of others? Why is it the successfull ones are always to blame and the less fortunate are never expected or required to make much of themselves?
And it is the working class and the wealthy that help out more in private charities than any other class. We give and give and give yet the government wants to take more and more and more. When is enough enough? If the unthinkable happends and Free healthcare becomes a reality, what will they want next?
You need to leave the governmental nest and become a man. Do you even have the ability to provide for yourself let alone a family?
You know what, if the RICH in this country really feel as though they owe nothing to the poor, then I think from now on that the RICH can stop coming to our ghettos and asking the children of the poor (to whom they owe NOTHING) to go to war to fight and die for the interests of the RICH. If nothing is owed to the poor people then all you right wing chicken hawks can go protect your own interests from now on.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

You must be kidding.... the fat fellow laborer sitting on the couch eating cheatos and putting his fake neckbrace on to grocery shop for more cheatos is who you have to blame for your relationship problems.... oh and yes I know I spelled "Cheatos" wrong
Funny, this makes it sound like you are of the opinion that the natural state of the working person is sloth and corruption. It sounds like you have this paternal attitude that if it weren't for captains of industry like yourself we'd all just lay around all day wondering if it was time to shit or take a nap. Maybe we were all better off when we had masters to keep us on the straight and narrow.
Homeless

[STV_Keith]

ROFLMAO!!! Oh, quit playin'! No, seriously man, I think people are starting to see through our whole "Keith and Homeless pretend to be enemies" charade!!!
"Homeless"
I'm sure the people in here know what to see through.

[homelessinaz]

I'm sure the people in here know what to see through.
OH SHIT DUDE!!! I thought that was in private message. FCK!!! Sorry. I'm trying to call your cell (I don't want to wake anyone up), either pick it up or call me.
Later,
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

OH SHIT DUDE!!! I thought that was in private message. FCK!!! Sorry. I'm trying to call your cell (I don't want to wake anyone up), either pick it up or call me.
Later,
Homeless
PICK UP DUDE!!! Can we take these messages down?

[Outnumbered]

I have grown bored with this thread. This Homeless guy has waaaaayyy too much time on his hands. Maybe if we ignore him he will go away. I don't mind debating a little politics with fellow boaters once in a while but this guy is like a non-stop move-on.org shill.
This is ***boat.COM dammit:sqeyes: . So, HomelessinAZ post up some intelligent contributions about boats or other toys or get the fock out. You are a broken record.:rolleyes: It is getting old.

[Kachina26]

OH SHIT DUDE!!! I thought that was in private message. FCK!!! Sorry. I'm trying to call your cell (I don't want to wake anyone up), either pick it up or call me.
Later,
Homeless
I think we've found a clue...........
Oh, and congrats on 100!!!!!!

[Old Texan]

"Uh, communism has been tried and it was a complete FAILURE, always, EVERYWHERE it was tried."
This is crap, there are plenty of places that are still run by socialist style governments. Had the US CIA not interfered in the affairs of countries like Nicaragua, El Salvador and Cuba, there is no telling how much more well off the citizens of these countries would be. Venezuela and China are both countries that have socialist style governments and who are doing well enough to have favorable trade balances with us.
Finally, if communist/socialist/collectivist theory was such a miserable failure, would it be catching on here in the US the way it is? More and more in this country average citizens, the working class and the prolatariat are demanding that leaders (and those who would seek leadership) offer solutions to our problems that are based on the wealthy sharing with the poor.
What I am saying is that whether or not you realize it, whether or not you like it, and even as you stand there day after day being proud of your country for "winning the cold war", your country, OUR COUNTRY is moving away from this cold hearted "every man for himself" mentality and toward group solutions to group problems. If you don't like it, you can't really do much about it, because both parties are likely to nominate someone this election cycle who, when viewed objectively, would likely seem as socialist.
If capitalism was superior to collectivism, countries like the US wouldn't be moving towards socialism. Even though the USSR has fallen, it's legacy lives on. Make no mistake, it's happening, deal with it. I don't know how old you are, but if you are around in 50 years you'll see that the country you're living in will look more like the country I am endorsing, not the one you'd like to see.
"Uh, no you're wrong again, here in America (capitalist bastards), the poor people are fat, it's the first time in history."
People are getting fatter, but they are also getting more and more malnourished from eating McDonald's 3 or 4 days a week. Fatter doesn't mean healthier of more well nourished.
"Bill Gates $50 billion away and give it to 300 million people. No effect. Oh, and where did that $ come from? Capitalism?"
Wasn't Bill Gates's wealth determined to be a product of an illegal monopoly that violated anti-trust laws? This goes back to my point about the winners in a capitalist society being the cheaters.
Homeless
Here we go, after a week our visiting Gay Communist TROLL has spat out his agenda.:rolleyes:
Things must be boring around the commune around the holidays when all the other loafers head into town to reload on supplies........

[Not So Fast]

I posted this question in hopes of hearing some answers about what might be the next President :( Sadly enough and the reason why I dont like politics or bringing them up is that the subject turned into a cluster f--k of everything and nothing with no clear cut results. Seems some have a much higher post count though and of that I have wasted too much time reading about the persons personal veiws on EVERYTHING. :( NSF

[Froggystyle]

I posted this question in hopes of hearing some answers about what might be the next President :( Sadly enough and the reason why I dont like politics or bringing them up is that the subject turned into a cluster f--k of everything and nothing with no clear cut results. Seems some have a much higher post count though and of that I have wasted too much time reading about the persons personal veiws on EVERYTHING. :( NSF
Boy... do I ever know how you feel.
Fred Thompson so far for me.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I'm thinking I'll write myself in...can't be any worse than any of the others...:)

[homelessinaz]

I have grown bored with this thread. This Homeless guy has waaaaayyy too much time on his hands. Maybe if we ignore him he will go away. I don't mind debating a little politics with fellow boaters once in a while but this guy is like a non-stop move-on.org shill.
This is ***boat.COM dammit:sqeyes: . So, HomelessinAZ post up some intelligent contributions about boats or other toys or get the fock out. You are a broken record.:rolleyes: It is getting old.
You're telling ME to stop expressing my opinions? I will not, and you can't make me, because I am an American and I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I can say what I want and you can't stop me.
Whadda ya think of that?
Homeless

[QuickJet]

You're telling ME to stop expressing my opinions? I will not, and you can't make me, because I am an American and I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I can say what I want and you can't stop me.
Whadda ya think of that?
Homeless
Since you have nothing in common with any of this forum's members, why do you feel the need to visit and share your far left, wako opinions?

[Rattle Can Lou]

You're telling ME to stop expressing my opinions? I will not, and you can't make me, because I am an American and I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I can say what I want and you can't stop me.
Whadda ya think of that?
Homeless
I can pray you go away. You are scary dude....

[Troy McClure]

You're telling ME to stop expressing my opinions? I will not, and you can't make me, because I am an American and I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I can say what I want and you can't stop me.
Whadda ya think of that?
Homeless
YAWN................................
Dolt. :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

[blown65]

You're telling ME to stop expressing my opinions? I will not, and you can't make me, because I am an American and I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I can say what I want and you can't stop me.
Whadda ya think of that?
Homeless
actually all it takes is an admin to shut ya up. LOL

[Nord]

Wow.........thanks God I'm too busy in retail this time of season to follow good threads that get ruined :notam:

[Outnumbered]

...I will not, and you can't make me, because I am an American and I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I can say what I want and you can't stop me.
Whadda ya think of that?
Homeless
I think you sound like a cry baby throwing a tantrum...
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/pjcomix/blog/crybaby1.jpg

[homelessinaz]

Since you have nothing in common with any of this forum's members, why do you feel the need to visit and share your far left, wako opinions?
Ever hear of "The Fairness Doctrine"? Is was a piece of FCC regulations until the early 80's when an FCC comissioner under Reagan declared that the doctrine hurt the public interest and violated the 1st amendment.
Well, bed news. The same 2 senators who argued most vociferously against the bill, Reid and Kerry, are now shaking the dust off of the bill and talking about re-institution it to include, among other things the internet. You may all (hopefully) be required to give equal time and bandwidth to opposing points of view in these chatrooms real soon.
On the real side, sirs, you have to realize that these times are going to be changing soon. You got your 8 years. Althought I wouldn't claim the man or woman as my own, either Hillary or Obama, they are without one doubt your next President and Vice President. This will bring about change. I understand why this makes folks like you angry, but YOU MUST learn to deal with being the party in the minority again. Having me on your board will help.
Homeless

[homelessinaz]

actually all it takes is an admin to shut ya up. LOL
I assume you are talking about having an admin use their power to remove me from this list. Is that right? Well, just to you know, an admin would have to demonstrate that my speech is harmful to others of that it has the potential to be harmful to others. Otherwise, I've got freedom of speech to say what I want, and if anyone shuts me down, I'll sue. I'll sue the board itself, whatever moderator shuts me off, and I'll start a nationwide boycott of all businesses who sponsor this site.
Now what are you thinking?
Homeless

[Outnumbered]

...I'll sue. I'll sue the board itself, whatever moderator shuts me off, and I'll start a nationwide boycott of all businesses who sponsor this site.
Now what are you thinking?
Homeless
I think you are what is wrong with the country. "I'll sue you....waaaaaaaa.......I'll sue you.......waaaaaa". You are too funny:D

[WestTNRiverRat]

I assume you are talking about having an admin use their power to remove me from this list. Is that right? Well, just to you know, an admin would have to demonstrate that my speech is harmful to others of that it has the potential to be harmful to others. Otherwise, I've got freedom of speech to say what I want, and if anyone shuts me down, I'll sue. I'll sue the board itself, whatever moderator shuts me off, and I'll start a nationwide boycott of all businesses who sponsor this site.
Now what are you thinking?
Homeless
I was thinking that you were an idiot. Now I'm thinking that you're the gay love child of Jane Fonda and Jesse Jackson. :D :D

[Old Texan]

I assume you are talking about having an admin use their power to remove me from this list. Is that right? Well, just to you know, an admin would have to demonstrate that my speech is harmful to others of that it has the potential to be harmful to others. Otherwise, I've got freedom of speech to say what I want, and if anyone shuts me down, I'll sue. I'll sue the board itself, whatever moderator shuts me off, and I'll start a nationwide boycott of all businesses who sponsor this site.
Now what are you thinking?
Homeless
The TROLL has just threatened us. :rolleyes:
Sue us over putting you on "Ignore" Lamebrain. Now go paddle out in front of Ferry, you Fairy.......

[blown65]

rof, I'm sure the site is really worried about your threat of a lawsuit.
as for the sponsors, I guess your their problem. lucky them

[eliminatedsprinter]

I assume you are talking about having an admin use their power to remove me from this list. Is that right? Well, just to you know, an admin would have to demonstrate that my speech is harmful to others of that it has the potential to be harmful to others. Otherwise, I've got freedom of speech to say what I want, and if anyone shuts me down, I'll sue. I'll sue the board itself, whatever moderator shuts me off, and I'll start a nationwide boycott of all businesses who sponsor this site.
Now what are you thinking?
Homeless
Delusions of grandeur + a complete lack of understanding of the constitution=Pure comedy.:D :D :D

[Rexone]

Privately owned website. ***boat can do whatever they please as far as allowing or not allowing anyone to post on the site for any reason or none at all. Just by threatening to sue is a violation of terms and conditions agreed to at signup. It takes all kinds I guess. Sue happy jackasses are much of the problem in this country.
Gotta love these internet tough guys.
As far as who I might vote for that's a good question. I'm reg republican so in Ca those are my primary choices. Really undecided and no one is really standing out for me yet.
As far as general election I have no problem voting non republican if the person with the values and goals I would like to see emerged. I presently don't see that person on the dem side. As others have said I too would vote for Powell I think over anyone on the current slate. But that opportunity's not likely to present itself.

[Old Texan]

Privately owned website. ***boat can do whatever they please as far as allowing or not allowing anyone to post on the site for any reason or none at all. Just by threatening to sue is a violation of terms and conditions agreed to at signup. It takes all kinds I guess. Sue happy jackasses are much of the problem in this country.
Gotta love these internet tough guys.
So did you toss the Troll Mike????? Just curious.:devil:

[Rexone]

So did you toss the Troll Mike????? Just curious.:devil:
No I run a pretty easy program here. Forum guidelines not followed, physical threats, porn, real offensive material will get you tossed or threads moved and locked. The guy's got an opinion to which he's free to express as long as it's within that scope of acceptability. Threatening ***boat or the volunteer moderators with lawsuits is old news here and great entertainment from a few who somehow think they gained website ownership when they signed up.
The beat goes on :)

[Old Texan]

I think you should go FU(K yourself, then climb in that big gay canoe and ride it off Niagara Falls.
Yep that's what you should do alright.
PS- HURRY!
Bilgie you forgot to tell him to pack his bowling ball for the ride.........:D

[Old Texan]

No I run a pretty easy program here. Forum guidelines not followed, physical threats, porn, real offensive material will get you tossed or threads moved and locked. The guy's got an opinion to which he's free to express as long as it's within that scope of acceptability. Threatening ***boat or the volunteer moderators with lawsuits is old news here and great entertainment from a few who somehow think they gained website ownership when they signed up.
The beat goes on :)
Good deal. He will be taught this is a Democracy and we even tolerate admitted Communists, although I have no idea why.......
I still maintain he's a TROLL.:idea:

[eliminatedsprinter]

Good deal. He will be taught this is a Democracy and we even tolerate admitted Communists, although I have no idea why.......
I still maintain he's a TROLL.:idea:
I think he's hilarious.:D :D :D Part of me thinks he is an act, kind of like Archie Bunker or Major Hochstetter....;) ;) ;)

[Old Texan]

I think he's hilarious.:D :D :D Part of me thinks he is an act, kind of like Archie Bunker or Major Hochstetter....;) ;) ;)
You'd almost have to believe it's a put on. Lord help him if he is what he claims. Life is gonna be pretty rough in the real world.:eek: :D :D
He's got more Meathead in him than Archie though. Actually I could see him really being Meathead.....Probably got a lil' fatgirl like Gloria hangin' around the commune.:devil:

[eliminatedsprinter]

You'd almost have to believe it's a put on. Lord help him if he is what he claims. Life is gonna be pretty rough in the real world.:eek: :D :D
He's got more Meathead in him than Archie though.
No doubt, but Archie was a brilliant act by Carroll O'Conner, that was created in order to make Bigots look foolish. Meathead mostly reflects how Rob Reiner really is.

[eliminatedsprinter]

I still maintain he's a TROLL.:idea:
Most likely. But one can hope it's just a hilarious act.