BBF snout drive info ???

[Squirtin Thunder]

I am thinking real hard and have a boat picked out, to start running Nostalgia Flat with SCSC. Some of the guys are still running off the flywheel but I know for the boat to turn right I need to install the engine in the right direction. So I need some help. I am planning on running a cast crank 429 BBF for a short time to help me get used to the boat. I will be stepping it up in the future to a high quality forged stroker deal. I know I can have a new crank cut with a BBC snout later but is there a adapter that can be used with the BBF stock snout ?
Second what do I have to do to have the Whirl-a-way switched around ?
Thanks guys

[lilrick]

I think that I would contact bergerron and see what they offer for the balancer driven application. Also, on the whirl way there are directional DOGS that are RH or LH and these are what you would replace . Call JJ Beaver for that stuff. This is makes much more sense by the way. :D

[2manymustangs]

You may find a forged steel school bus or dump truck version of the 429 crank that has a large snout that can be cut down.
I get some of my engine cores from a place in downtown St Louis called Mendenhal, they are a MAJOR authorized ford rebuilder and have sold me 391 forged truck cranks. They know all the numbers and have a large inventory. I know that there is a forged steel, large snout 460 truck crank available.
The Castilio bros down south of Downey CA should know and be able to get you a core also. They are awesome grinders and could set you up. You guys are lucky to have them so close, our good crank grinders in St Louis are all closed.

[2manymustangs]

Just sitting here on this rainy day and did a little homework, on one of the ford truck forums it explains that most all of the 370 (429 stroke) bus/truck engines were cast cranks with a few exceptions BUT claims that the 1970ish 429 large truck engines were all steel cranks. I found listings of three short blocks for sale that show the crank snout being 1 3/4" dia. My 429 CJ engine has a 1 3/8" dia. crank snout. A 1 3/4" forged steel snout should give you plenty of meat to work with.
If you cant find a 429 heavy truck crank locally let me know and I will call Mendenhal rebuilders, they should have em. :D

[LeE ss13]

Why not just do what the late great John McCray did, build the engine to rotate counter-clockwise. All you need is a reverse rotating cam and gears.

[superdave013]

fish on X 3
haha

[LeE ss13]

Ya know ....... my idea of the best 80mph Nostalgia Flat race boat would be a 450 lb B-Boat with an all aluminum FI SBC using a dry sump to get the engine as low as possible. Then, have the bottom re-worked to non-legal limits (for an SS, PS, or K), so it can go around a single pin turn like a Champ Boat. Throw in a 110 lb driver and $3,000 worth of electronics to keep it under 80 and you'd be good to go! Oh yeah, and paint it yellow.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I will be stepping it up in the future to a high quality forged stroker deal. I know I can have a new crank cut with a BBC snout later but is there a adapter that can be used with the BBF stock snout ?
Does anyone make or is it even possible to get an adapter that would allow for the comon BBC snout drive ?

[superdave013]

that's easy lathe work, not cheep lathe work, just easy lathe work. :)
But lets see you get the boat before we worry about all that.
fish off

[2manymustangs]

La Mirada, Calif The Castillo brothers, top, top, top crank grinders!
Something like peeling off the crank snout is a cake walk and they should also be able to find the forged steel 429 truck crank core for you.:idea:
The cost of having the crank snout cut to BBC diameter would be WAY less than any adaptors or snout supports.

[Squirtin Thunder]

La Mirada, Calif The Castillo brothers, top, top, top crank grinders!
Something like peeling off the crank snout is a cake walk and they should also be able to find the forged steel 429 truck crank core for you.:idea:
The cost of having the crank snout cut to BBC diameter would be WAY less than any adaptors or snout supports.
It looks like I need to build the engine with a F600 & up commercial 429 truck crank. So the search shall begin.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2933983#post2933983post2933983

[dmontzsta]

I have a 429 Forged Steel Crank. HFD is working on it and will cut it down and mock it up in the block to be the exact same dimensions as a BBC. So as far as everything goes, the motor will accept BBC balancer and adapter. :)

[Squirtin Thunder]

I have a 429 Forged Steel Crank. HFD is working on it and will cut it down and mock it up in the block to be the exact same dimensions as a BBC. So as far as everything goes, the motor will accept BBC balancer and adapter. :)
Great info, thanks Don !

[Squirtin Thunder]

We run a flange straight off the crank, also have one with bolt on counter weight for external balance. These are double keyed to the crank. I would suggest double keying the crank and the drive unit, whether it is a balancer or a drive flange.......I think Rex sells the drive flanges...........Ray
So no need to run the balancer then on an internal balanced engine with the drive flang ?

[Moneypitt]

Why not just do what the late great John McCray did, build the engine to rotate counter-clockwise. All you need is a reverse rotating cam and gears.
A liitle more is required.....A reverse rotation starter and a reverse rotation OIL PUMP........While having these cranks cut down, remember to double key the snout. Some people use an additional 1/4" key, but I've been lucky with 2, 3/16ths keys......MP

[2manymustangs]

Your probably going to have to still somehow run the ballancer spacer / hatchet weight. I am assuming that engines produced that late were externally ballanced in leiu of what I just went through in finding a internally ballanced (zero imbalance) 164 toot flex plate for my 1970 429CJ. I had to go all the way back to around 1975 to find a flexplate that had no counterweight on it and in 1975 there seem to have been both versions.

[LeE ss13]

A liitle more is required.....A reverse rotation starter and a reverse rotation OIL PUMP........MP
OK I forgot the starter. Here is what we did back in the '70. We put a 327 all the way back in a Corvair. The engine has to turn anti-clockwise. (English expression). The cam was the kind they used in Marine reversed engines. It turned the same way as a standard engine by using two gears instead of a chain. Crank turned backwards, cam turned forward. That way the distributor and the oil pump turned the same way. Unfortunately, those Marine gears were not designed to turn 7K. After a couple of months running at the drags, the gears grenaded and exited out the timing cover. It was a fun little deal.

[Moneypitt]

Why not just get a BBC steel crank, flange would fit, flexplate/flywheel would fit. Oh, then you'll need a BBC block, a pair of heads, rods and pistons, headers, intake, oil pan/pump, and some nickel and dime shit, and like magic, A competitive boat engine......MP

[Squirtin Thunder]

Your probably going to have to still somehow run the ballancer spacer / hatchet weight. I am assuming that engines produced that late were externally ballanced in leiu of what I just went through in finding a internally ballanced (zero imbalance) 164 toot flex plate for my 1970 429CJ. I had to go all the way back to around 1975 to find a flexplate that had no counterweight on it and in 1975 there seem to have been both versions.
I have right now both set ups available. My goal at this point is to get one of these big truck cranks, re-balance everything and get all parts necessary.

[2manymustangs]

Let me know if you have a hard time finding the crank, PM me with your phone number and I will let you know how much a core from Mendenhal is.
What kind of rods and pistons are legal in the class your gonna run? Do you think you can you rebalance everything to get it internally ballanced? I guess running a modified hatchet/spacer behind the BBC ballancer/flange and a flex plate with a weight wouldnt be too big of a dealio.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Let me know if you have a hard time finding the crank, PM me with your phone number and I will let you know how much a core from Mendenhal is.
What kind of rods and pistons are legal in the class your gonna run? Do you think you can you rebalance everything to get it internally ballanced? I guess running a modified hatchet/spacer behind the BBC ballancer/flange and a flex plate with a weight wouldnt be too big of a dealio.
The hatchet spacer came in '79 and I have 2 of those spacer, but all my other parts and spacers are '68 up to '77. Those early spacers are just that spacers with no wieghts. The nostalgia classes have an open engine rule, meaning there is no rule other than machanically sound and safe. I have to look up the PS engine rules but I think it is pritty open with a max ci of 500". The 429s are internally balanced(C8 D0 D1 Blocks) the ones that are not use the D9TE blocks.
Thank you

[LakesOnly]

ST,
Van has already machined down several big snout steel truck cranks in the past, and then rekeyed/double-keyed them for Chrysler stuff back when he was using those cranks in his race cars.
Your situation ain't no big deal. Just find a crankshaft and cross the snout/balancer bridge when you get to it. It doesn't take much and then you can run the same driveline gear that all the BBC powered circle boats run. The components don't give a crap what brand name they are associated with. Simply put, they are balancers, couplers, etc. Just machine to fit.
LO

[dmontzsta]

ST,
Van has already machined down several big snout steel truck cranks in the past, and then rekeyed/double-keyed them for Chrysler stuff back when he was using those cranks in his race cars.
Your situation ain't no big deal. Just find a crankshaft and cross the snout/balancer bridge when you get to it. It doesn't take much and then you can run the same driveline gear that all the BBC powered circle boats run. The components don't give a crap what brand name they are associated with. Simply put, they are balancers, couplers, etc. Just machine to fit.
LO
+1

[Moneypitt]

OK, all kidding aside. This is an area in a boat that has to be dead on. No almost fits, no Mikey Moused adaptations. Those long snouted Ford cranks are scary and alignment is critical. Remember flats aint jets. In a jet the front of the engine is in the back seat, in a flat these parts are at your hip. Safety first..........MP

[dmontzsta]

OK, all kidding aside. This is an area in a boat that has to be dead on. No almost fits, no Mikey Moused adaptations. Those long snouted Ford cranks are scary and alignment is critical. Remember flats aint jets. In a jet the front of the engine is in the back seat, in a flat these parts are at your hip. Safety first..........MP
I agree, that is why taking a forged steel factory dumptruck crank (1.75") and cutting it to the exact size of a BBC snout which is 1.31", is the best bet. Either that or ponying up for a Bryant crank w/ BBC snout.

[2manymustangs]

I agree, that is why taking a forged steel factory dumptruck crank (1.75") and cutting it to the exact size of a BBC snout which is 1.31", is the best bet. Either that or ponying up for a Bryant crank w/ BBC snout.
Who is the nice old guy in Downey CA that makes billet cranks for Sonny's? I got to tour his shop about 8 years ago. He was also into racing R.C. boats with weed eater motas...

[GofastRacer]

Talkin about Velasco??..:confused:

[superdave013]

Talkin about Velasco??..:confused:
those are around 3K these days. Heck, at that price Squirtin will prolly get a spare.

[Squirtin Thunder]

those are around 3K these days. Heck, at that price Squirtin will prolly get a spare.
For that price I should not need a spare !

[2manymustangs]

Ya, thats him... Velasco's, is he still out there doin his thing??? He did say that he was building some of Sonny's cranks when I was getting the nickle tour... Cool stuff, we went to the back shop where the real hogging down of the billets take place, LOTS o metal chips. :eek:

[GofastRacer]

Ya, thats him... Velasco's, is he still out there doin his thing??? He did say that he was building some of Sonny's cranks when I was getting the nickle tour... Cool stuff, we went to the back shop where the real hogging down of the billets take place, LOTS o metal chips. :eek:
Well, it's been a long time since I been in there, but it still shows his same address on Benedict???, Yep, he had a lot of cool stuff there!...

[lilrick]

I got a Velasco crank out of a MOUZER motor....:D

[2manymustangs]

If I remember correctly he did his own nitriding and hard chrome for the journals as options/upgrades.

[superdave013]

For that price I should not need a spare !
you will need spare everything if you plan to run with the big dogs.
Lets see some pics of the boat.

[Squirtin Thunder]

you will need spare everything if you plan to run with the big dogs.
Lets see some pics of the boat.
We are going to run the Nostalgia Flat class for the remainder of the '08 season. As far as running with the Big Dogs, when we are comfortable we will step up. When I am all ready for doing this Dave, One complete spare engine for the Flat and one for the Jet. At least that is the plan.We are going to have two tow vehicals now, no biggy.

[GofastRacer]

If I remember correctly he did his own nitriding and hard chrome for the journals as options/upgrades.
That he did!..:)