Tom Brown and Other Canadians

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Please tell us about the Canadian Health Care system

[WestTNRiverRat]

Don't know about the Canadian Health Care System but here's a very good review of socialized health care right here in the good ole US of A.
Short version: Nightmare
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005987

[468miller]

sollized, mostly free from the gov, but you have to wait forever to get anything, unless ur on ur deathbed........gfs a doc.........;)

[Kachina26]

According to a report released by Canada's Fraser institute in October click (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/commerce.web/newsrelease.aspx?nID=4967) The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8 weeks). I had one here under my health plan and waited about a week from the time the doc asked for it. As I recall it was due to my schedule being tight. click for more interesting snippets from the report (http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/10/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-hit-record.html)
I'll keep my healthcare, thank you.

[Kachina26]

Pumping money into it doesn't seem to help either.....
"With almost 10 years of successive increases in federal health care transfers and given that Canada's health care program is the second most expensive universal access program in the developed world, you would expect that we would have one of the world's premier health care systems. But by almost all measures, the extra funding has not produced the sort of improvements and results one would expect," Esmail said.
full article (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=639913)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'm looking to hear first hand from those involved.
Just curious how many folks here have looked closely and the medical insurance policies. Many have a lifetime benefit limits. Many have cancer limits, PT limits. large annual out of pocket expense maximums. Many health insurance policies will not fully cover you in case of a catastrophic illness.
HMO's, based on all that I read are far worse that the Canadian program. Again, I suggest that all of you look more closely at your coverage before possibly making uneducated decisions.
Why do I get the feeling that most of the Conservatives here are against the issue of Universal Health Care just because it is a proposal by the left. Here's one for you, in CA if the health care provider improperly denies a claim in whole or in part, the insured can't file any type of legal action against the carrier. Also, here in CA, the CA Dept of Insurance will not provide assistance with health care claims. You're out of luck and out of pocket. Until you guys face off against a health care provider, you have no idea how bad it is. Not to mention that insurers every year raise the cost and decrease the coverage. Our health care premium monthly is over $55,000, for 120 people, 35% under the age of 30.
The system is a f'n mess and I welcome intervention from the people.
Aagin, there is no such thing a free health care

[homelessinaz]

According to a report released by Canada's Fraser institute in October click (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/commerce.web/newsrelease.aspx?nID=4967) The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8 weeks). I had one here under my health plan and waited about a week from the time the doc asked for it. As I recall it was due to my schedule being tight. click for more interesting snippets from the report (http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/10/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-hit-record.html)
I'll keep my healthcare, thank you.
Well, I guess as long as YOU'RE taken care of, who cares about the less fortunate and the underserved who will NEVER get their CT scan? Under most of the plans for socialized medicine, people who can afford to have privatized health care will still have that option, thus saving you from having to mix with the unwashed masses at the doctor's office. It'll be about the same as the situation with education. Your kids don't have to mix with our kids in school because you keep them sequestered in private schools where they don't have to be around the children of the poor, even though you pay taxes to keep the public school system afloat. Don't worry, you'll still be able to see your doctor, perhaps even faster because you won't have to wait behind us charity cases. Maybe your doctor will even institute some kind of valet parking system, just to complete the experience.
Homeless

[WestTNRiverRat]

Well, I guess as long as YOU'RE taken care of, who cares about the less fortunate and the underserved who will NEVER get their CT scan? Under most of the plans for socialized medicine, people who can afford to have privatized health care will still have that option, thus saving you from having to mix with the unwashed masses at the doctor's office. It'll be about the same as the situation with education. Your kids don't have to mix with our kids in school because you keep them sequestered in private schools where they don't have to be around the children of the poor, even though you pay taxes to keep the public school system afloat. Don't worry, you'll still be able to see your doctor, perhaps even faster because you won't have to wait behind us charity cases. Maybe your doctor will even institute some kind of valet parking system, just to complete the experience.
Homeless
Shouldn't you be out looking for a new cardboard box? Winter is coming on you know.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well, I guess as long as YOU'RE taken care of, who cares about the less fortunate and the underserved who will NEVER get their CT scan? Under most of the plans for socialized medicine, people who can afford to have privatized health care will still have that option, thus saving you from having to mix with the unwashed masses at the doctor's office. It'll be about the same as the situation with education. Your kids don't have to mix with our kids in school because you keep them sequestered in private schools where they don't have to be around the children of the poor, even though you pay taxes to keep the public school system afloat. Don't worry, you'll still be able to see your doctor, perhaps even faster because you won't have to wait behind us charity cases. Maybe your doctor will even institute some kind of valet parking system, just to complete the experience.
Homeless
Homeless,
The health care issue runs way deeper than the haves and have nots. Many of the folks who are under the impression that have great health care coverage, in fact do not. Health care insurers are f'n animals with Claims Examiners who receive bonuses for reducing the amount service or payments for claims, at the expense of the insured or patient.
Come on Tom and all the guys from up North. Please inform us of how good or bad health care is in Canada.

[rrrr]

The Canadians aren't around to answer the original question, they're waiting in line to see a doctor.....:D :D
Insurance is supposed to cover unforeseen events. Health insurance wouldn't cost so much if it wasn't used for routine exams and common colds.
Expecting health insurance to pay for those items is analogous to taking my truck to the body shop and getting the hood repainted every time I get a rock chip.
Have you noticed the wording of the debate has changed from health insurance to "Universal Health Care"? That ups the costs tremendously.
As for this bit of genius:
Well, I guess as long as YOU'RE taken care of, who cares about the less fortunate and the underserved who will NEVER get their CT scan? Under most of the plans for socialized medicine, people who can afford to have privatized health care will still have that option, thus saving you from having to mix with the unwashed masses at the doctor's office.
Those "people that can afford privatized health care" are also the ones that will pay 100% of the burden for "Universal Health Care".
I pay a $5,000 monthly premium for seven employees.....so I should pay for everyone else too? :rolleyes:
We just need to let the Democrats pass their SCHIP bill so "poor" families making up to $80K a year can get coverage for their "children" up to age 24......
And don't forget they want to remove the requirement that a DL and SS number be provided to obtain coverage. Gee, who does that benefit?

[spectras only]

While I'm not an expert on the subject ,we canadians agree with most of the content of the article from the Fraser Institute ,that Kachina posted . What I can tell you, if you work for a large company like I do , your azz is covered pretty good . I pay the premiums through my company that used Blue Cross in the past , now we have Sunlife . My wife and I both can use each others benefit , that covers our son also until he's 21 . According to my payslip , I pay $ 30.55 for LTD2 per month and around $ 57.00 cdn per year for life ins. My dental coverage is 80% for maintenance and 55% for crown ,braces , root canal and cosmetic . Combining my policy with my wife's ,it's pretty much covered . It sure helped a lot when my son needed braces for almost two years . The big problem is wait for surgery , due to closing beds in nearly every hospitals in the past in this province .
Don't know if you remember a while back when hospitals started recruiting doctors and nurses to move south . Now that didn't help much either . We lost quite few good people . You probably bumped into some of them docs and nurses yourselves :idea: What I think we're still lacking of is equipment upgrades for every hospitals here . One of our hospitals [ Burnaby] got its CAT scan machine long time ago from the generous act of Michael J Fox who was born there . Can't see why a resource rich country like Canada has to rely on handouts for social needs:rolleyes: .
In a nutshell , medicare in Canada went downhill from the 90's , that's a fact .

[Tom Brown]

According to a report released by Canada's Fraser institute in October click (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/commerce.web/newsrelease.aspx?nID=4967) The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8 weeks). I had one here under my health plan and waited about a week from the time the doc asked for it. As I recall it was due to my schedule being tight. click for more interesting snippets from the report (http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/10/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-hit-record.html)
I'll keep my healthcare, thank you.
I know people who have needed surgery and gotten it the same day. In fact, when I tore a cartilage in my knee, I showed up at the hospital at about 3am and was operated on at 11am the same day.
As far as CT scans go, someone I know is fighting cancer and he seems to have no problem getting them the same day when an oncologist requests them. Routine CTs take a while but when there is an emergency need, they can happen whenever a doctor needs.
I don't know why some people become indignant about Canadian health care. Our system is excellent in many ways. It also sucks in some ways. We have some terrible doctors and we have some wonderful doctors. Is American health care that much better?
Look, I'm not saying Canadian health care is better than US health care. I wouldn't know. All I'm saying is that our care is not as desperately bad as some of the anecdotal stories suggests.
We hear all kinds of stories about people in the US becoming sick with no insurance and not getting proper medical treatment, etc. It's your basic fear mongering. Perhaps the stories told in the US about Canadian health care are told with the same intent.
I'll keep my health care, thank you. :)

[spectras only]

You might want to check the population of the areas where the waits are the longest, you might gain some insite as to why the waiting times are longer.
I can only speak for Vancouver where I had hands on experience ;) . I've injured my back years ago that immobilized me one day . Had to wait 2 months to get a CAT scan that find out I had a hairline fracture in my lower back .I was told then they can't do anything about it and I have to avoid lifting heavy objects . Fortunately I don't have a problem now , only an occasional tingle here and there . My wife had reconstruction surgery for sinus problems little over ten years ago , she has to have one again and it will take up to a year before she can have it done . Maybe she should go to Alberta or further where there are less people :idea: . Vancouver takes the grunt of problems from all over BC , because the best doctors are here , according to my friend's wife who works at VGH .
Back in the 70's I had a MC accident at 8.30 AM , I was taken to VGH with a double compound fracture with a bone sticking out . I was in the ER waiting til 2.30 PM , before I was rolled in the operating room. After two weeks in the cast the surgeon told me he have to brake my leg to set it straight because it's off a bit . Needless to say what I told him at the time :) and I have the proof today of the masterful operation ;) . Luckily they didn't shortened my leg in the process , so I could go skiing in 8 months with no limping :D . I have a lot more stories of other unfortunate events experienced by friends , but the list would be a little long . I'm not sure if I would want the US medicare though , cause you hear all the complains about that too .

[Kachina26]

Well, I guess as long as YOU'RE taken care of, who cares about the less fortunate and the underserved who will NEVER get their CT scan? Not me!
Under most of the plans for socialized medicine, people who can afford to have privatized health care will still have that option, thus saving you from having to mix with the unwashed masses at the doctor's office. It'll be about the same as the situation with education.
Well that's a relief.
Your kids don't have to mix with our kids in school because you keep them sequestered in private schools where they don't have to be around the children of the poor, even though you pay taxes to keep the public school system afloat.
Holy crap, you've bred???
Don't worry, you'll still be able to see your doctor, perhaps even faster because you won't have to wait behind us charity cases. Maybe your doctor will even institute some kind of valet parking system, just to complete the experience.
Homeless
Not likely.

[homelessinaz]

Not me!
Well that's a relief.
Holy crap, you've bred???
No, I haven't bred, but I have kids who I claim as partial progeny. That Hillary lady had it right when she noted that it takes a village to raise a child, and I am a part of that village.
You know, you guys, you capitalist cheerleader types throw out little overused phrases like, "capitalism works" and you expect to have people accept it on face valuse when you say that capitalism is the best system going, but how much time have you spent getting a non-American perspective on capitalism?
Can you list the disadvantages of capitalism?
If not, why not?
If so, how do you answer these charges?
Capitalism works for the winners, and the winners are invariably the cheaters. Capitalism REQUIRES that there be losers, and you, the SLIGHTLY priviledged class sit there and delight in the fact that you are MINOR winners.
I think I've made my point now.
Homeless

[Kachina26]

I think I've made my point now.
Homeless
We all have seen your point. Your point is so glaringly obvious that the only way you could hide it would require a special hat....
http://www.townfield.doncaster.sch.uk/images/Jan2004/clean%20slate%202004%20(36).jpg

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Thanks guys, pretty much in line with what my friends from Canada have told me.

[Big Warlock]

Thanks guys, pretty much in line with what my friends from Canada have told me.
You're moving to Canada????
crap, I won't have anyone to argue with!!!! :D

[Jordy]

You're moving to Canada????
crap, I won't have anyone to argue with!!!! :D
I think they still have the same internet up there... :notam: :idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

You're moving to Canada????
crap, I won't have anyone to argue with!!!! :D
Not any time soon and I think Jordy's right :D

[Keith E. Sayre]

At risk of jumping on anyones bandwagon here, I will add the only true story
that I know of regarding the Canada health system. I have a friend from there who visited me about 3 years ago. He had just won the boat race going around Vancouver island and is actually the mayor of a small town
there. During the race, he got a hernia and a broken finger. (it's an
endurance race in extremely rough water). The reason for his visit was he]was going to Phoenix to get the hernia operation and his finger fixed. He was
going to pay for it rather than wait to get it fixed there.
I'm not saying anything is good or bad, simply telling the one story that I know.
Keith Sayre

[Big Warlock]

Bottom line is either way you pay for it. And bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system. Many people, I wish I knew the statistic, have the money to purchase healthcare but choose not to. They spend their money on other things and then expect the "system" to cover them when it happens. I have seen it a few times.
I have no problem with a "public" system of heathcare that deals with situations where there is no coverage. But it will not be the first class system that those who pay into receive. Kind of like a "Doc in the Box" you see in the urgent care system. Takes care of the basics, but you are not going to get ICU treatment, long term cancer care, etc. etc. That would help the emergency rooms out and free up the healthcare system for those who pay into it.
But if you want to see a disaster, just look how soldiers are taken care of in the "government" system. If that doesn't scare you, nothing will. When I was in the Army, no chance you were going to see a Dr. unless death was upon you. And even then, chances were it was a contract Dr. out of the Philipines. One of the best things about the first Desert Storm was the amount of reserve Dr.'s called into service. Because casualties were so low, they had time to do many elective surgeries out in the desert, which was still much better than our facilities in Germany and back home. And these guys were awesome!!!

[Tom Brown]

Bottom line is either way you pay for it. And bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system.
Everything I have read indicates that, bang for the buck wise, everything beats your health care system.
For the most part, you folks get the cool new technologies first and we don't get them until the cost comes down a bit but our health care cost is a fraction of yours, systemically.

[QuickJet]

Everything I have read indicates that, bang for the buck wise, everything beats your health care system.
For the most part, you folks get the cool new technologies first and we don't get them until the cost comes down a bit but our health care cost is a fraction of yours, systemically.
Is'nt that kinda like saying the Chevy Cavalier is better than BMW 750 IL because it's cheaper?

[Jbb]

Brown said they are willing to pay for that...transgender surgery he wants....:jawdrop:

[HM]

Brown said they are willing to pay for that...transgender surgery he wants....:jawdrop:
Canuck says the wait is like 6 months.

[Tom Brown]

Is'nt that kinda like saying the Chevy Cavalier is better than BMW 750 IL because it's cheaper?
No. It's not like saying that at all.
If you read the thread, you will see where Big Warlock said, "bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system". This, of course, is incorrect. Your system is the least fiscally efficient system on the planet.
I understand the US pays a high price for pioneering a lot of procedures and technologies that we don't adopt until they are more cost effective. For what it's worth, we thank you for that. :D Quality of care is not what I was commenting on. If you read my post, you will find that I am commenting on value or, as Big Warlock calls it, "bang for the buck."

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Bottom line is either way you pay for it. And bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system. Many people, I wish I knew the statistic, have the money to purchase healthcare but choose not to. They spend their money on other things and then expect the "system" to cover them when it happens. I have seen it a few times.
I have no problem with a "public" system of heathcare that deals with situations where there is no coverage. But it will not be the first class system that those who pay into receive. Kind of like a "Doc in the Box" you see in the urgent care system. Takes care of the basics, but you are not going to get ICU treatment, long term cancer care, etc. etc. That would help the emergency rooms out and free up the healthcare system for those who pay into it.
But if you want to see a disaster, just look how soldiers are taken care of in the "government" system. If that doesn't scare you, nothing will. When I was in the Army, no chance you were going to see a Dr. unless death was upon you. And even then, chances were it was a contract Dr. out of the Philipines. One of the best things about the first Desert Storm was the amount of reserve Dr.'s called into service. Because casualties were so low, they had time to do many elective surgeries out in the desert, which was still much better than our facilities in Germany and back home. And these guys were awesome!!!
Rob,
I may be wrong on this but I heard that our soldiers and our Vets are getting first class care for the most part these days.
Our Health Care system is a mess. I just got a call from the hospital that I am having an endoscopy procedure done tomorrow. I have top of the line PPO coverage. The hospital cost for the 15 minute procedure is $5000, of which 20% is on me. This does not include the doctor or anesthesiologist. My total cost for this 15 minute procedure will be nearly $1500. and I'm only paying 20%.
I am sorry guys but US hospitals and insurance companies are bending us over every chance they get.
Again, I suggest that each and everyone of you who believes that they are fully covered for major medical look at your policy for lifetime benefit limits, cancer limits, PT limits and all other limits. I guaranty that many of you don't have nearly as good of coverage as you think.

[HM]

No. It's not like saying that at all.
If you read the thread, you will see where Big Warlock said, "bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system".
F't Canatard...Translation: Bang for the buck, means we get screwed more for a buck than you do. :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Everything I have read indicates that, bang for the buck wise, everything beats your health care system.
For the most part, you folks get the cool new technologies first and we don't get them until the cost comes down a bit but our health care cost is a fraction of yours, systemically.
I would like the people of the US to get involved in re-working our health care system.
Again, there is no such thing as free health care

[BoatPI]

One issue that is NOT mentioned here is Canadian income taxes. They are HIGH! And as an example they do not have a deduction for home mortgage interest or tax paid, all new houses have a GST tax imposed, soon being reduced to 5%. Not bashing, just other taxing issues to consider.
As Brown knows I have a townhome is a pricey area (Canmore), and they (city) can at any time add to the current federal property tax. Recently they considered adding about $1,000 to my property tax bill as a non owner occupied!!! Just because they can, and without a public vote 'to boot' (thats Canadian slang).

[OGShocker]

"bang for the buck."
That is what they call the lunch special at the Bunny Ranch.

[airpacker]

One issue that is NOT mentioned here is Canadian income taxes. They are HIGH! And as an example they do not have a deduction for home mortgage interest or tax paid, all new houses have a GST tax imposed, soon being reduced to 5%. Not bashing, just other taxing issues to consider.
As Brown knows I have a townhome is a pricey area (Canmore), and they (city) can at any time add to the current federal property tax. Recently they considered adding about $1,000 to my property tax bill as a non owner occupied!!! Just because they can, and without a public vote 'to boot' (thats Canadian slang).
There are no federal property taxes in Canada. Property taxes are assessed and collected at the municipal ( local ) level. In Ontario, we each pay a "health tax" annually on top of out federal and provincial income taxes, fed sales tax, provincial sales tax, and nine million other levies and taxes but no federal property tax.
Our health care system is funded thru fed and provincial taxes but run by each province individually. It is undermanaged by too many managers. Our hospitals are over burdened with BS. My kid has a runny nose, better take little( insert recent immigrant name here) to hospital. Hundres of thousands of non tax paying, refugee claimants and their families are eating up the system.It eats more than half of all taxes collected annually in this country. Free my ass. No optical or dental coverage unless you are a friggin welfare case, then its all free because you get free money and NO income taxes. I even pay sales tax on the med insurance plan I pay for to cover all the things the "system" does not.
Where ity does work out is if you need life saving surgery that would cost 100,200 or more thousand in the USA, here you will get it eventually and not lose every penny you have to get it.
What is needed is a blending of private care for small stuff and the government system to cover the big stuff but hey, thats illegal in Canada. I cannot PAY to have a cat scan or minor surgery or a broken arm fixed.

[SB]

No. It's not like saying that at all.
If you read the thread, you will see where Big Warlock said, "bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system". This, of course, is incorrect. Your system is the least fiscally efficient system on the planet.
I understand the US pays a high price for pioneering a lot of procedures and technologies that we don't adopt until they are more cost effective. For what it's worth, we thank you for that. :D Quality of care is not what I was commenting on. If you read my post, you will find that I am commenting on value or, as Big Warlock calls it, "bang for the buck."
Yes, we pay more per person. Mostly because of development costs.
"Again, I suggest that each and everyone of you who believes that they are fully covered for major medical look at your policy for lifetime benefit limits, cancer limits, PT limits and all other limits. I guaranty that many of you don't have nearly as good as you think."
And yes.
The US apparently has the burden of developing new expensive procedures and meds for the world.
A lot of people are not as covered as they think.
But our biggest problem is we spend too much on old people. Though I opposed socialized medicine, if it happened here, the one nice thing, is that old people would on an equal footing with the rest of us.
As for the horror stories, the endo cost $5,000 this year. Next year it will cheaper, faster, and better.

[spectras only]

Here's a breakdown for those people who are really interested in this topic .
It applies to British Columbia .Other provinces may have different plans !
Employees pay the full premium for Long Term Disability (LTD) coverage.
Great West Life insures this plan. Major plan features are:
No waiting period. You are eligible for Long Term Disability coverage upon your start date.
Benefits begin after you have been continuously disabled for 120 days.
If you remain continuously disabled, benefits could continue to age 65.
Additional sources of income may offset the benefit payable (e.g. LTD benefit amount payable offset by Canada Pension Plan disability benefits payable to you).
You have a choice of 3 different levels of coverage.
Basic coverage for an individual . My company shares 50% of my cost >
The government of British Columbia provides all B.C. residents with universal, basic medical coverage. The monthly premium is as follows: $54/month for single coverage, $96/month for couple, $108/month for family.
Eligibility
B.C. Medical coverage is effective on your start date.
For BC Medical purposes only, a common-law spouse is eligible for coverage on the first day of the month following the date of residing together and in order for a dependent child to remain eligible for coverage beyond age 18, they must meet all of the following requirements:
24 years of age or younger, (ineligible beyond the end of the month in which their 25th birthday falls)
mainly supported by the subscriber
neither married nor in a common-law relationship
in full-time attendance at an educational institute as a primary occupation. Course duration must be at least 3 months. Evening classes are not acceptable. If studying outside Canada, proof of registration is required annually
study program will lead to a certificate or degree that is recognized in Canada.
permanent home must be in British Columbia
*Please note: You can choose to keep your separated spouse as a dependent only if:
it is a separated spouse from a marriage relationship, not a common law relationship
AND only until you are divorced
OR until the separated spouse becomes involved in another relationship
OR up to one year after separation
OR until you want to add a new spouse to the plan (whichever is sooner)
Prescriptions
Covers 80% for all drugs legally requiring a prescription
Please Note: The BC government has introduced some changes to the PharmaCare program. All BC residents must now register for this program. Click here for more info.
*Please Note: Sun Life will reimburse a max. of 100 days supply of drugs. If you purchased more than 100 days worth of drugs you can submit to receive the rest of your reimbursement again in 3 months from the date of purchase. You only need to resubmit the Sun Life Explanation of Benefits Statement with either a note attached or the Sun Life Extended Health claim form, indicating what the submission is for and for how much. You do not need to resubmit copies of your prescription receipts.
Vision Care
Covers 80% for prescription eye exams, eyeglasses, prescription sun glasses, prescription safety glasses, contact lenses and laser eye correction surgery up to $250/family member/every 2 calendar years from the year in which you purchased. For example, if you make a purchase and use your full $250 in April 2004, the next time you can purchase is Jan. 1, 2006.
Paramedical practitioners, Hospital, Services & Supplies
Paramedical practitioners - 80% of the actual price paid for the service or 80% of the amount listed on the reasonable and customary fee guide for paramedical practitioners, whichever is less, up to a maximum of $500/family member/calendar year/type of practitioner. Paramedical practitioners include licensed: physiotherapy, chiropractor, naturopath, massage, acupuncture, psychologist, speech therapist, osteopath, podiatrist.
Semi-private hospital accommodation (100%)
Medical services and supplies (80%)
Dental benefit >
Explanation of Benefit
80% coverage for basic work, Sun Life will pay max. $2000/family member/calendar year for basic and major combined.
50% coverage for major, Sun Life will pay max. $2000/family member/calendar year for basic and major combined.
50% coverage for orthodontic work, Sun Life will pay max. $2000/family member/lifetime.
No premium costs and no deductible
Eligibility
You and your family are eligible for Dental care coverage on your start date. Eligible dependants include your spouse (including common-law spouse, provided you have no legal spouse) and all unmarried children under 21 years of age (or under 25 if in full-time attendance as a student at a school, college or university).
Children 21 years of age or over are eligible if incapable of self-sustaining employment by reason of mental or physical handicap and chiefly dependent on you for support or maintenance.
Common-law spouse means a person publicly represented as your spouse and who has been residing with you for a period of not less than one year.
If a dependent, other than a new-born infant, is in a hospital when insurance should commence, insurance will not become effective until the dependent is discharged from the hospital.
*Please note: You can choose to keep your separated spouse as a dependent only if:
it is a separated spouse from a marriage relationship, not a common law relationship
AND only until you are divorced
OR until the separated spouse becomes involved in another relationship
OR up to one year after separation
OR until you want to add a new spouse to the plan (whichever is sooner)

[Big Warlock]

:D No. It's not like saying that at all.
If you read the thread, you will see where Big Warlock said, "bang for the buck, nothing beats our health care system". This, of course, is incorrect. Your system is the least fiscally efficient system on the planet.
I understand the US pays a high price for pioneering a lot of procedures and technologies that we don't adopt until they are more cost effective. For what it's worth, we thank you for that. :D Quality of care is not what I was commenting on. If you read my post, you will find that I am commenting on value or, as Big Warlock calls it, "bang for the buck."
Well I appreciate your comments, hhowever.........
I will give an example. Years ago, not too far away, you had heart blockage and they would break your chest cavity and rip out some veins from your legs and cut out the blockage and then tie in the veins they ripped out of your legs that you really don't need.....they think. You recover for months.
Now, because of good old American greed, some innovative person designed, engineered and brought to market a procedure where they can run a catheter up from your groin, do a rooter job on ya and then install some stints to hold the artery open!!! Your out the next day, shaken but ready to get back on the wagon!!!
Ok, so the guy who invented this is a surgeon, rich beyond compare! Do I give a shiat??? NO!!!!! Am I grateful??? YES!!!!! I appreciate that my folks have stayed alive 20 years with good quality of life because of AMERICAN ingenuity!!!! And every SOB in the world wants to come here for the healthcare!!!!
Can there be improvements??? Yes!!!! As soon as I am made dictator, I will solve the problem. First, can you say TORT reform???? (John Edwards?) Sueing Dr.s because you focked up your body and died on their watch so your family thinks they are entitled to something??? That's #1!! That's why you pay $5K for a 15 min procedure!!! Insurance!!! Legal protection!!!!
#2.......The emergency room will no longer be utilized as your private focking healthcare service center. Learn to use Doc inthe BOx!!!
#3 .......Buy focking insurance!!!! Don't expect me to fund your sorry azz!!!! Work and cover what you need!!!! How many people on Hot Boat have a boat and no health insurance??? I wonder how that survey would go??? :D LOL Bet me I am not too far off!!! I know people that will drop hundreds every weekend for booze but have no health insurance. Is that my fault? Then "we" pick up the tab when they get hurt or deathly sick!!
Shall I go on????? :eek:
But I do wonder why all the Dr s and Nurses from Canada come to the USA to work? Want to guess??? (I was married to one FYI)

[spectras only]

:D
But I do wonder why all the Dr s and Nurses from Canada come to the USA to work? Want to guess??? (I was married to one FYI)
Because the grass [ or money :) ] is always greener on the other side :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

:D
Well I appreciate your comments, hhowever.........
I will give an example. Years ago, not too far away, you had heart blockage and they would break your chest cavity and rip out some veins from your legs and cut out the blockage and then tie in the veins they ripped out of your legs that you really don't need.....they think. You recover for months.
Now, because of good old American greed, some innovative person designed, engineered and brought to market a procedure where they can run a catheter up from your groin, do a rooter job on ya and then install some stints to hold the artery open!!! Your out the next day, shaken but ready to get back on the wagon!!!
Ok, so the guy who invented this is a surgeon, rich beyond compare! Do I give a shiat??? NO!!!!! Am I grateful??? YES!!!!! I appreciate that my folks have stayed alive 20 years with good quality of life because of AMERICAN ingenuity!!!! And every SOB in the world wants to come here for the healthcare!!!!
Can there be improvements??? Yes!!!! As soon as I am made dictator, I will solve the problem. First, can you say TORT reform???? (John Edwards?) Sueing Dr.s because you focked up your body and died on their watch so your family thinks they are entitled to something??? That's #1!! That's why you pay $5K for a 15 min procedure!!! Insurance!!! Legal protection!!!!
#2.......The emergency room will no longer be utilized as your private focking healthcare service center. Learn to use Doc inthe BOx!!!
#3 .......Buy focking insurance!!!! Don't expect me to fund your sorry azz!!!! Work and cover what you need!!!! How many people on Hot Boat have a boat and no health insurance??? I wonder how that survey would go??? :D LOL Bet me I am not too far off!!! I know people that will drop hundreds every weekend for booze but have no health insurance. Is that my fault? Then "we" pick up the tab when they get hurt or deathly sick!!
Shall I go on????? :eek:
But I do wonder why all the Dr s and Nurses from Canada come to the USA to work? Want to guess??? (I was married to one FYI)
Rob,
Thought I should clarify this issue.
Twenty-seven years ago, in Zurich, Switzerland, Dr. Andreas Gruentzig performed the first coronary angioplasty on an awake human patient. In doing so, he forever altered the role of the cardiologist in treating heart and vascular disease.
Switzerland has socialized medicine
What is the average life expectancy in Canada vs the US?
We pick up the tab for the uninsured now, and we do it in a very wasteful and unorganized manner. Tort reform is a must, which I have stated previously. Seems Canadians are happy and satisfied with their health care for a reason. I don't think you nor I are in a position to bash Canadian health care.
The other reason that we are bent over as much as we are is greed. I don't see Medicine and big capitalist business, which it has become.

[SB]

The other reason that we are bent over as much as we are is greed. I don't see Medicine and big capitalist business, which it has become.
Well the best way I know to motivate people is greed. I notice that money attracts brains. I want the best, smartest people working on my health. I don't see any benefit in telling med students that they are going to paid like social workers. None at all.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well the best way I know to motivate people is greed. I notice that money attracts brains. I want the best, smartest people working on my health. I don't see any benefit in telling med students that they are going to paid like social workers. None at all.
SB, if you do some research, you will find that not all of the best doctors are the highest paid.
As I just pointed out to Rob (BW)
Twenty-seven years ago, in Zurich, Switzerland, Dr. Andreas Gruentzig performed the first coronary angioplasty on an awake human patient. In doing so, he forever altered the role of the cardiologist in treating heart and vascular disease.
This breakthrough was not a result of greed. It was a result of a doctor's dedication to the field of medicine.
Doctors is Countries where medicine is socialized, get paid very well and hardly like social workers. Here in So Cal, there are too many doctors and lawyers and as such pay is not as high as you might think.
Persoanlly I would much rather have my doctor care about my health then the money he makes taking care of my health.

[Big Warlock]

SB, if you do some research, you will find that not all of the best doctors are the highest paid.
As I just pointed out to Rob (BW)
Twenty-seven years ago, in Zurich, Switzerland, Dr. Andreas Gruentzig performed the first coronary angioplasty on an awake human patient. In doing so, he forever altered the role of the cardiologist in treating heart and vascular disease.
This breakthrough was not a result of greed. It was a result of a doctor's dedication to the field of medicine.
Doctors is Countries where medicine is socialized, get paid very well and hardly like social workers. Here in So Cal, there are too many doctors and lawyers and as such pay is not as high as you might think.
Persoanlly I would much rather have my doctor care about my health then the money he makes taking care of my health.
I think stents were invented by a Cardiologist in Dallas, Texas.

[Big Warlock]

Home » HistoryCenter » Biographies » Gruentzig
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After employing Dotter's techniques of transluminal angioplasty, which he had learned from Eberhart Zeitler in Nuremberg, Andreas Gruentzig, a young German physician working at University Hospital in Zurich, Switzerland, began toying with the idea of adding a balloon to the Dotter catheters. He started fashioning prototypes in his own kitchen, searching for a viable material and design. In 1975 he developed a double-lumen catheter fitted with a polyvinylchloride balloon that would set in motion a revolution in medicine.
He presented the results of animal studies with the balloon at the American Heart Association meeting in 1976 and was met with skepticism, although a few individuals saw the potential of his work. Dr. Richard Myler of Saint Mary's Hospital in San Francisco suggested they collaborate and the two performed the first human coronary angioplasty intraoperatively during bypass surgery in San Francisco.
In September 1977, in Zurich Switzerland, Gruentzig performed the first coronary angioplasty on an awake human. Now, a year later, when he presented the results of his first four angioplasty cases to the 1977 AHA meeting, the audience burst into applause, acknowledging his breakthrough with a standing ovation.
Gruentzig began a careful, rigorous process of furthering and disseminating the technique through live demonstration courses and establishment of a PTCA registry at the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute to gather and share experience. Throughout the 1980's, improvements in angioplasty technology continued exponentially.
Gruentzig's breakthrough was a synthesis of all that had come before and because of the brilliant way in which he fostered its acceptance, the field of interventional cardiology has forever altered the role of the cardiologist in treating coronary artery disease.
Following are some video clips of an interview with Dr. Gruentzig, conducted in September of 1985, one month before a plane crash claimed his life on October 27. The interview was conducted in his office at Emory University Hospital by Burt Cohen. We've titled these clips "Grand Rounds" and the topics are:
Guess where he sold his invention and made his money?????? :eek:

[Tom Brown]

Well I appreciate your comments, hhowever.........
Before you tell us about the US capturing the U-571 and cracking the enigma code, give this a read.
"In 2004, per-capita spending for health care in the U.S. was more than double that in Canada: in the U.S., it totaled US$6,096; in Canada, US$3,038."
"A 2007 review of all studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the U.S., in a Canadian peer-reviewed medical journal, found that "health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent."[6] Life expectancy is longer in Canada, and its infant mortality rate is lower than that of the U.S., but there is debate about the underlying causes of these differences. The World Health Organization's ratings of health care system performance among 191 member nations, published in 2000, ranked Canada 30th and the U.S. 37th, and the overall health of Canadians 35th and Americans 72nd."
[interesting comments regarding exceptions to the above system performance figures in which the US system out-performs the Canadian systems are not quoted but worth reading as referenced in the link below.... IMO]
"As both countries consider changes to their systems, there is debate over whether resources should be added to the public or private sector. Although Canadians and Americans have each looked to the other for ways to improve their respective health care systems, there exists a substantial amount of conflicting information regarding the relative merits of the two systems.[13] In Canada, the United States is used as a model and as a warning against increasing private sector involvement in health care. In the U.S., meanwhile, Canada's mostly monopsonistic health system is seen by different sides of the ideological spectrum as either a model to be followed or avoided.[14][15]"
Quotes from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared )

[Big Warlock]

The good Dr left the world of socialized medicine to make his fortune in the good, ol USof A!! Where He then lost his live, in his own, own private aircraft (I assume paid for by his invention!) LOL
Gruentzig, an instrument-rated pilot, and his wife died in an airplane crash in their Beechcraft Baron in Forsyth, Georgia on 1985-10-27.

[Big Warlock]

Before you tell us about the US capturing the U-571 and cracking the enigma code, give this a read.
"In 2004, per-capita spending for health care in the U.S. was more than double that in Canada: in the U.S., it totaled US$6,096; in Canada, US$3,038."
"A 2007 review of all studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the U.S., in a Canadian peer-reviewed medical journal, found that "health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent."[6] Life expectancy is longer in Canada, and its infant mortality rate is lower than that of the U.S., but there is debate about the underlying causes of these differences. The World Health Organization's ratings of health care system performance among 191 member nations, published in 2000, ranked Canada 30th and the U.S. 37th, and the overall health of Canadians 35th and Americans 72nd."
[interesting comments regarding exceptions to the above system performance figures in which the US system out-performs the Canadian systems are not quoted but worth reading as referenced in the link below.... IMO]
"As both countries consider changes to their systems, there is debate over whether resources should be added to the public or private sector. Although Canadians and Americans have each looked to the other for ways to improve their respective health care systems, there exists a substantial amount of conflicting information regarding the relative merits of the two systems.[13] In Canada, the United States is used as a model and as a warning against increasing private sector involvement in health care. In the U.S., meanwhile, Canada's mostly monopsonistic health system is seen by different sides of the ideological spectrum as either a model to be followed or avoided.[14][15]"
Quotes from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared )
Any idea how many Americans go to Canada for medical care? Canadians to USA?

[Tom Brown]

Any idea how many Americans go to Canada for medical care? Canadians to USA?
If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.

[Jbb]

If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.
Tom Brown......Healthcare Badass.....:jawdrop:

[Big Warlock]

If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.
LOL, good comeback!!! :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.
:D :D

[rrrr]

If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.
Tom Brown.......compassionate Canatard.
:D :D

[canuck1]

One issue that is NOT mentioned here is Canadian income taxes. They are HIGH! And as an example they do not have a deduction for home mortgage interest or tax paid, all new houses have a GST tax imposed, soon being reduced to 5%. Not bashing, just other taxing issues to consider.
As Brown knows I have a townhome is a pricey area (Canmore), and they (city) can at any time add to the current federal property tax. Recently they considered adding about $1,000 to my property tax bill as a non owner occupied!!! Just because they can, and without a public vote 'to boot' (thats Canadian slang).
Our taxes are high????? Compaired to California????? BS
What is the take home pay for someone that makes 10g a month there with a family of 4? I will have the girls get me the numbers for here tommorrow.
How about property taxes... high end neighborhood, million $ home +/-
And yes we can't write off a mortgage.... but we do not pay capital gains on that property either, I can flip a house a year tax free.... can you?

[canuck1]

Any idea how many Americans go to Canada for medical care? Canadians to USA?
How about Americans/Canadians that go to Mexico.....

[GOTTBoat]

If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.
Health care smealth care, what kind of jet fighter does the Canadian Air Force fly?:D

[Big Warlock]

How about Americans/Canadians that go to Mexico.....
Your right! Quite a few actually. Dental and cosmetic surgery. The mighty dollar!! And the reason is there is no medical litigation! Thus costs are kept down. Downside is obvious. But I know alot of people that go down there for medical reasons.
And many Mexicans come north for free healthcare!!! :D

[Boatcop]

Everyone is harping about the US Health Care Crisis.
The US Health Care System is the best in the world. NO ONE gets turned away who needs it. (Except in isolated incidents, like Harbor General in LA County, which is a Govt. run facility by the way)
The problem isn't the care. The problem is how to pay for it. I think I can speak with some authority on this, as my wife has been in the Health care Field for 18 years. 13 in the Private sector and 5 in Govt. service.
The one constant in both, is that when health care is free, either through MEDICAID type programs or direct free service, such as the Indian Health Service, people take OVER advantage of it.
Rather than run down to the store for a bottle of cough syrup or Tylenol, they go to the Doctor. And if the Doctor can't see them, they go to the Emergency Room. The Doctor's or hospitals get paid a pittance from the Govt. for their care, and those costs have to be born by the rest of us. We all know that an aspirin doesn't cost $97.50 dollars, but that's what we're charged at the hospital. Why? To make up for treating those who are treated for free, or for next to nothing through the Govt.
Go into a County Hospital and look around the Emergency Room. You will see that most of those waiting for care are parents with sniffling little kids, who could be home treated with OTC meds. But since their care is "free" for them, they'll take up space, time and resources in the ER, and end up getting that same OTC medication for free from the hospital.
Ultra is right (did I really say that? :eek:) in that Tort reform is sorely needed in the medical spectrum. Because every facility and Doctor is afraid of losing everything due to a lawsuit, they order more tests than needed, just to be sure to cover every possible scenario. Sure they have malpractice insurance, but to the tune of 10s of thousands per month, or possibly 100s of thousands a month for some specialties (OB/GYN for one).
Just removing the high judgments and subsequent Malpractice Insurance would put approx 1 million dollars per Doctor per year back into the system, and take it off the backs of patients and Health Insurance Companies.
The US has the best health care in the world. You don't see Americans going to other countries for "better" care. Cheaper maybe, but not better.
Yes. I am lucky. Through my work I have fantastic coverage. And when I retire I'll have that, along with Military (Tri-care), MEDICARE, etc. I am covered for anything for however long I need. My wife will have her Federal Insurance (BC/BS) along with the Indian Health System. Again, covered for anything for however long it's needed.
If you want a Health Care Crisis, look at Darfur or nearly any other countries on the African or Asian Continent. But we sure as hell don't have one here.

[spectras only]

Adding fuel to the fire :)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22184921/

[Big Warlock]

Everyone is harping about the US Health Care Crisis.
The US Health Care System is the best in the world. NO ONE gets turned away who needs it. (Except in isolated incidents, like Harbor General in LA County, which is a Govt. run facility by the way)
The problem isn't the care. The problem is how to pay for it. I think I can speak with some authority on this, as my wife has been in the Health care Field for 18 years. 13 in the Private sector and 5 in Govt. service.
The one constant in both, is that when health care is free, either through MEDICAID type programs or direct free service, such as the Indian Health Service, people take OVER advantage of it.
Rather than run down to the store for a bottle of cough syrup or Tylenol, they go to the Doctor. And if the Doctor can't see them, they go to the Emergency Room. The Doctor's or hospitals get paid a pittance from the Govt. for their care, and those costs have to be born by the rest of us. We all know that an aspirin doesn't cost $97.50 dollars, but that's what we're charged at the hospital. Why? To make up for treating those who are treated for free, or for next to nothing through the Govt.
Go into a County Hospital and look around the Emergency Room. You will see that most of those waiting for care are parents with sniffling little kids, who could be home treated with OTC meds. But since their care is "free" for them, they'll take up space, time and resources in the ER, and end up getting that same OTC medication for free from the hospital.
Ultra is right (did I really say that? :eek:) in that Tort reform is sorely needed in the medical spectrum. Because every facility and Doctor is afraid of losing everything due to a lawsuit, they order more tests than needed, just to be sure to cover every possible scenario. Sure they have malpractice insurance, but to the tune of 10s of thousands per month, or possibly 100s of thousands a month for some specialties (OB/GYN for one).
Just removing the high judgments and subsequent Malpractice Insurance would put approx 1 million dollars per Doctor per year back into the system, and take it off the backs of patients and Health Insurance Companies.
The US has the best health care in the world. You don't see Americans going to other countries for "better" care. Cheaper maybe, but not better.
Yes. I am lucky. Through my work I have fantastic coverage. And when I retire I'll have that, along with Military (Tri-care), MEDICARE, etc. I am covered for anything for however long I need. My wife will have her Federal Insurance (BC/BS) along with the Indian Health System. Again, covered for anything for however long it's needed.
If you want a Health Care Crisis, look at Darfur or nearly any other countries on the African or Asian Continent. But we sure as hell don't have one here.
Apparently you didn't attend the premier of SICKO with Ultra and Tom Brown!!! :eek:

[Big Warlock]

Subject: Survival of the fittest:
There was a Chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange
students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the prof noticed
one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back and stretching
as if his back hurt.
The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him
he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists
in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and
install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question.
He asked, " Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"
The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man
said this was no joke.
"You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of
the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they
begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get
used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four
sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. the pigs, who are used to
the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them
and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom.
They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go
back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten
how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.
The young man told the professor that that is exactly what he sees happening
to America. The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms-
just a little at a time.
(One should always remember "There is no such thing as a free lunch"; and "You
can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it
yourself.)
This has so much meaning to me and seems to be what's going on in this country
today, that I wanted to send this to ya'll. If you also see all of the government "help" as a problem for the future of democracy in America, please say so!!!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Our taxes are high????? Compaired to California????? BS
What is the take home pay for someone that makes 10g a month there with a family of 4? I will have the girls get me the numbers for here tommorrow.
How about property taxes... high end neighborhood, million $ home +/-
And yes we can't write off a mortgage.... but we do not pay capital gains on that property either, I can flip a house a year tax free.... can you?
In CA property tax on a newly purchased $1,000,000 home is about $10,500 a year. Take home pay from 10K a month with a family of 4 varies greatly depending on mortgage interest. My guess with a home loan of $350,000 which is about average, a guy, with a family of 4, making $120K is paying about 28% total in taxes. My CA is worth close to $700,000 but my property tax is under $2,400 because I bought it 21 years ago for $138,000
Again, there is no such thing as free health care.

[BoatPI]

Like Ultra my income tax load is about 28% adjusted. And yes, If I want I can flip a house a month rolling it over into another property or to specific limited stocks. When this all washs out I have a feeling that the true out of pocket costs are lower in USA. Figuring that many employers provide some health insurance, and the cost of months co pays etc. Here we can purchase catastrophic insurance, I know as friend has it to cover his as* and not loose his house. It kicks in at 10K in a year and costs $200 a month, up to 3 million lifetime. So it can be done even when self employed. We do pay much more for prescription drugs, and as stated we get it first as somehow we have the burden of supporting the R % D. Canada has an excleelent system, but ours is way ahead in many ways, but we $$. A larger country and more USC/UCLA research centers here. In all of this discussion THREE issues are the truth.
1. Canadians are much more grateful for what they receive.
2. Amaricans are not and batch way too much.
3. Canada has the population equal to that of California.

[Kim Hanson]

Homeless,
The health care issue runs way deeper than the haves and have nots. Many of the folks who are under the impression that have great health care coverage, in fact do not. Health care insurers are f'n animals with Claims Examiners who receive bonuses for reducing the amount service or payments for claims, at the expense of the insured or patient.
Come on Tom and all the guys from up North. Please inform us of how good or bad health care is in Canada.
I pay around 12-14 hundred bucks a year and it is great if you ask me..........( . )( . )............:D :D

[Tom Brown]

The US Health Care System is the best in the world. NO ONE gets turned away who needs it. (Except in isolated incidents, like Harbor General in LA County, which is a Govt. run facility by the way)
The mantra here is the same.
Go into a County Hospital and look around the Emergency Room. You will see that most of those waiting for care are parents with sniffling little kids, who could be home treated with OTC meds. But since their care is "free" for them, they'll take up space, time and resources in the ER, and end up getting that same OTC medication for free from the hospital.
That's exactly what any Canadian ER is like. Any one. "Free" health care has it's drawbacks.
We have instituted a quietly implemented policy of adding huge wait times for treatment in ERs. There will be a digital sign announcing the wait... typically between 3 & 6 hours... and a poster suggesting care will be much quicker at any of the numerous clinics in town.
I was sent to a hospital ER once by a local doctor. He called first to let them know I was coming. When I told the desk who I was, they took me right in. Once in the treatment area, it was interesting to see doctors and nurses just hanging out, doing nothing, in a room full of empty beds. I was the only patient at the time. The people in the waiting room were being inconvenienced as part of a reeducation program.
The reason I haven't commented specifically on US health care is that I've never received any. The closest I've come is a time I was in Florida on vacation and some medication run out. It was a medication that was adjusted weekly based on blood testing. My nurse called me on a cell phone with a new dose for the week and I ran out the day before I left. I thought about just not worrying about it but ended up going to Walgrens and a very kind pharmacist gave me some rather expensive medication. He told me he had no way of legally charging me so he simply handed me the meds and wished me well on my journey.
I, of course, thanked the commie bastard, left, and then reported his socialist and subversive activity to the CIA for further investigation. Anything done for a common good, rather than for personal greed, is wrong and needs to be stopped before the non-capitolist infection spreads.

[Tom Brown]

LOL, good comeback!!! :D
Thanks. :D
I find it very interesting how so many of us feel so correct in our views of the system we believe in when both systems seem to be serving their populations very well. Both systems also seem to have serious issues.

[Jbb]

I, of course, thanked the commie bastard, left, and then reported his socialist and subversive activity to the CIA for further investigation. Anything done for a common good, rather than for personal greed, is wrong and needs to be stopped before the non-capitolist infection spreads.
I hope he was tazed!....:mad:

[OGShocker]

If your health care system really was as good as you say, they would be able to cure you of being a moron.
Normally, I don't find you to be all that funny, but that was BEAUTIFUL! :D
Mark

[Froggystyle]

Rob,
I may be wrong on this but I heard that our soldiers and our Vets are getting first class care for the most part these days.
Wrong... I'll leave it at that.
Our Health Care system is a mess. I just got a call from the hospital that I am having an endoscopy procedure done tomorrow. I have top of the line PPO coverage. The hospital cost for the 15 minute procedure is $5000, of which 20% is on me. This does not include the doctor or anesthesiologist. My total cost for this 15 minute procedure will be nearly $1500. and I'm only paying 20%.
You should do it yourself. Or ask if anyone on Hot Boat is a surgeon and can come over with a case of beer and knock it out for you... :rolleyes:
People seem to make light of the risk taken by the hospital, doctors and insurance companies to allow you to get a "15 minute" operation. You can sue the shit out of them for nearly any reason, and they have to defend it. If there is the slightest actual hiccup in the proceedure or otherwise, you will nearly always win a settlement.
My 2002 Chevy truck costs me about $120/month for insurance. I have a nearly flawless driving record, it is a big, safe truck and not particularly expensive. If it gets hurt, you take off old sheetmetal and put new stuff on. The guy doing that work isn't a surgeon though, he is a low-income worker working in a body shop somewhere in East County. When they paint it, they aren't doing it in a completely sterile operating theatre, surrounded by four or five support people to do the job.
My health insurance costs me about the same.
You explain to me how they provide top notch health insurance for the same price as insuring an aging Chevy truck to a medically retired SEAL veteran with a list of past procedures and medical issues as long as your arm. Doesn't make sense.
I severely dislocated my finger about four months ago mountain bike riding. I mean, pointing a different direction completely, 100% dislocated. I reduced it myself while out there and rode home, but realised that this was the hand that the military had cut the nerve to during one of my other surgeries. I have no feeling on the inside of my hand any more, but it also doesn't hurt every time I move my left wrist... fair trade off. Bummer is, with no nerve sensation, maybe this was a lot worse than I thought it was... Better go to Kaiser...
I rolled in there about 5:00. I got brought right in, looked at in ER, sent to X-Ray just in case, the films beat me back to the ER and they said congratulations son and gave me my self-reduction merit badge and sent me on my way. Total time? 45 minutes.

[Jbb]

Last time Brown got shot...He went to Veternarian Sam Losco for treatment....It was not pretty...:jawdrop:

[spectras only]

[QUOTE=Tom Brown;2937528]
That's exactly what any Canadian ER is like. Any one. "Free" health care has it's drawbacks.
I've developed asthma a few years ago and had to drive myself to the ER to get checked out . I could hardly breath , yet they made me sign all kinds of forms before finally set me down in a room ,waiting another 2-3 minutes before a nurse put on a ventilator . I've immediately felt a 100 % better :) . Last year had another mild attack and said to myself f*ck it , lets call the ambulance . The fireman were at my house in less than two minutes getting the mask on . The ambulance was 5 minutes behind . They took me into the ER promptly ,bypassing the patients in the waiting room . The ambulance cost was $ 52 that got reimbursed from Sunlife through my plan .
The point of this is , free health care would still provide me with a ride in the ambulance , but I would have to cough up considerable amount of $$$ to get any care , prescription etc.....!
.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Wrong... I'll leave it at that.
You should do it yourself. Or ask if anyone on Hot Boat is a surgeon and can come over with a case of beer and knock it out for you... :rolleyes:
People seem to make light of the risk taken by the hospital, doctors and insurance companies to allow you to get a "15 minute" operation. You can sue the shit out of them for nearly any reason, and they have to defend it. If there is the slightest actual hiccup in the proceedure or otherwise, you will nearly always win a settlement.
My 2002 Chevy truck costs me about $120/month for insurance. I have a nearly flawless driving record, it is a big, safe truck and not particularly expensive. If it gets hurt, you take off old sheetmetal and put new stuff on. The guy doing that work isn't a surgeon though, he is a low-income worker working in a body shop somewhere in East County. When they paint it, they aren't doing it in a completely sterile operating theatre, surrounded by four or five support people to do the job.
My health insurance costs me about the same.
You explain to me how they provide top notch health insurance for the same price as insuring an aging Chevy truck to a medically retired SEAL veteran with a list of past procedures and medical issues as long as your arm. Doesn't make sense.
I severely dislocated my finger about four months ago mountain bike riding. I mean, pointing a different direction completely, 100% dislocated. I reduced it myself while out there and rode home, but realised that this was the hand that the military had cut the nerve to during one of my other surgeries. I have no feeling on the inside of my hand any more, but it also doesn't hurt every time I move my left wrist... fair trade off. Bummer is, with no nerve sensation, maybe this was a lot worse than I thought it was... Better go to Kaiser...
I rolled in there about 5:00. I got brought right in, looked at in ER, sent to X-Ray just in case, the films beat me back to the ER and they said congratulations son and gave me my self-reduction merit badge and sent me on my way. Total time? 45 minutes.
Wes,
If you have private health insurance that costs $120 a month I suggest you look more closely at your policy. Never heard of great coverage for $120 a month.
The $5000 had nothing to do with the any of the doctors involved, only the Hospital. We see things differently Wes.
Again, if you have private health care that costs $120 a month, I don't believe you have great
coverage.
My PPO premium is close to $6700 a year. As I've said the system is broken

[Dave C]

I agree our system has some flaws.
It would work better if everyone paid into it.:mad:
If they passed some sort of health care reform they need to mandate payments for those without insurance and allow an opt-out for those that pay into private insurance.
Plus we innovate for most of the rest of the world. That ain't cheap.
BTW for those of you who think W/C insurance is expensive you haven't seen nothing until you see a doctors malpractice premium. :sqeyes: :sqeyes:

[Froggystyle]

Wes,
If you have private health insurance that costs $120 a month I suggest you look more closely at your policy. Never heard of great coverage for $120 a month.
I don't have private, I am part of group medical that I have for myself, some of the officers of Trident and some key employees. I have great coverage and no dependants.
I have a guy working for me that pays almost $800/month. He is paying for himself, his ex-wife, her kid and his kid with her. His is under $200, hers is almost $400 since she doesn't work here.
Dependant coverage is very expensive.
FYI, I offer health care to everyone who works here, but they need to pay for it themselves if they want it.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I agree our system has some flaws.
It would work better if everyone paid into it.:mad:
If they passed some sort of health care reform they need to mandate payments for those without insurance and allow an opt-out for those that pay into private insurance.
Plus we innovate for most of the rest of the world. That ain't cheap.
BTW for those of you who think W/C insurance is expensive you haven't seen nothing until you see a doctors malpractice premium. :sqeyes: :sqeyes:
Good post
I don't have private, I am part of group medical that I have for myself, some of the officers of Trident and some key employees. I have great coverage and no dependants.
I have a guy working for me that pays almost $800/month. He is paying for himself, his ex-wife, her kid an
d his kid with her. His is under $200, hers is almost $400 since she doesn't work here.
Dependant coverage is very expensive.
FYI, I offer health care to everyone who works here, but they need to pay for it themselves if they want it.
Wes,
Private to me is anything that isn't Govt.
We have about 120 people Aetna PPO and HMO by employee choice. Monthly premium $55,000. No lifetime benefit limits, no cancer limits, $500 ded and $2000 annual out of pocket on the PPO which is 80/20. PPO Dr. visits 20 co-pay.
The company pays for 70% for most employee and the dependents, while a few of us are covered 100%. I'm very lucky. Nonetheless, the price of health care and insurance IMO is broken and needs to be addressed. It is also mu opinion that the hospital charge for the test that I had this morning was outrageously high I can afford it however, many people can't. For those who are paying for coverage, an additional $1500 for a test, is something many can't afford.

[Classic Daycruiser]

I know people who have needed surgery and gotten it the same day. In fact, when I tore a cartilage in my knee, I showed up at the hospital at about 3am and was operated on at 11am the same day.
As far as CT scans go, someone I know is fighting cancer and he seems to have no problem getting them the same day when an oncologist requests them. Routine CTs take a while but when there is an emergency need, they can happen whenever a doctor needs.
I don't know why some people become indignant about Canadian health care. Our system is excellent in many ways. It also sucks in some ways. We have some terrible doctors and we have some wonderful doctors. Is American health care that much better?
Look, I'm not saying Canadian health care is better than US health care. I wouldn't know. All I'm saying is that our care is not as desperately bad as some of the anecdotal stories suggests.
We hear all kinds of stories about people in the US becoming sick with no insurance and not getting proper medical treatment, etc. It's your basic fear mongering. Perhaps the stories told in the US about Canadian health care are told with the same intent.
I'll keep my health care, thank you. :)
My questions is:
1) Is it free?
2) Do they really use Indian medicine men?
2) How far do you drive to get that same day CT Scan...4 days???

[spectras only]

Not trying to take credits away from medical research done in the us , but other countries doing the same ;) .Bigger population produce more experts to choose from , no brainer there .
If you'd research what's happening in Vancouver [ UBC and Simon Fraser combined] there are a lot of that going on here .
Here's just one example . Lot of charity is going on by some pretty rich dudes [ Jim Pattison for one ] and many unanimous folks .
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2007/21/c7590.html

[WestTNRiverRat]

I've got Cigna Premium for myself and my 5 dependents through my employer.
Cost is $220 per month. $20 copay for Dr visit and $40 for specialist visit. No referrals from my primary care provider. I go to whoever I want to. Wife had female surgery and a C-section scar removed back in April. Six hour surgery, two different surgeons, Ob/Gyn and Plastic Surgeon and 3 days in hospital in a private room. Total bill was $42,000. I paid $150 copay.
Included in that bill was a charge for $1375 for administrative fees. When I inquired I was told it was collected to cover the costs of uninsured patients.
That's one of the main reasons medical treatment is so costly. You'll get treated even if you can't pay. Then those that have insurance pays for everybody.

[Big Warlock]

Normally, I don't find you to be all that funny, but that was BEAUTIFUL! :D
Mark
I was unaware that I had pissed you off at some point? :D You surely cannot be for socialized medicine with your "homepage" the RNC???

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I've got Cigna Premium for myself and my 5 dependents through my employer.
Cost is $220 per month. $20 copay for Dr visit and $40 for specialist visit. No referrals from my primary care provider. I go to whoever I want to. Wife had female surgery and a C-section scar removed back in April. Six hour surgery, two different surgeons, Ob/Gyn and Plastic Surgeon and 3 days in hospital in a private room. Total bill was $42,000. I paid $150 copay.
Included in that bill was a charge for $1375 for administrative fees. When I inquired I was told it was collected to cover the costs of uninsured patients.
That's one of the main reasons medical treatment is so costly. You'll get treated even if you can't pay. Then those that have insurance pays for everybody.
How much does your employer pay? No doubt much more than your $220 share. Still sounds like good coverage

[Old Texan]

Good post
Wes,
Private to me is anything that isn't Govt.
We have about 120 people Aetna PPO and HMO by employee choice. Monthly premium $55,000. No lifetime benefit limits, no cancer limits, $500 ded and $2000 annual out of pocket on the PPO which is 80/20. PPO Dr. visits 20 co-pay.
The company pays for 70% for most employee and the dependents, while a few of us are covered 100%. I'm very lucky. Nonetheless, the price of health care and insurance IMO is broken and needs to be addressed. It is also mu opinion that the hospital charge for the test that I had this morning was outrageously high I can afford it however, many people can't. For those who are paying for coverage, an additional $1500 for a test, is something many can't afford.
Ultra, you mentioned once before that you don't pay anything for insurance and your statement here says your company pays 100%. Since it's part of your benefit package I believe you are paying for it through your work efforts. Technically therefore you are getting nothing for free which better clariifes that earlier statement. ;)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ultra, you mentioned once before that you don't pay anything for insurance and your statement here says your company pays 100%. Since it's part of your benefit package I believe you are paying for it through your work efforts. Technically therefore you are getting nothing for free which better clariifes that earlier statement. ;)
You are correct. Nothing is free, I agree

[WestTNRiverRat]

How much does your employer pay? No doubt much more than your $220 share. Still sounds like good coverage
Don't have a clue what they pay. I do know what some guys are paying that took a buy out 3 years ago. They kept the Cigna Premium coverage and pay aprox $500/month for employee and spouse coverage. They're all over 50 y/o because you had to be at least 50 to take the buyout.
The problem with "free" health care are the people that take advantage of the system. That costs the ones that are able to pay more in the long run. IMO
Look at the fraud in Medicare and Medicaid. Hell look at the fraud in the Food Stamp program. Last year they arrested a ring here in Memphis that were making false ID's, applying for and receiving food stamps. It's a debit card now for those that don't have any exposure to it. Then selling the cards for half of the face value for cash. It was a mother and son led ring and neither one had a high school education but they had taken Uncle Sam for over a million bucks in food stamp fraud. That's why you can't compare the U.S to Canada and Switzerland. We have more scum in this country that would rather take advantage of the system than both those countries have in total population.
So now they're in jail for 30 years and we're still feeding the SOB's. Sorry but I'm tired of paying for scumbags that don't want to work and think they're supposed to be on some kind of entitlement program.

[WestTNRiverRat]

Hot off the press. This is why I don't want the government in charge of my health needs.
Medicaid fraud costing Billions (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22184921/)

[Tom Brown]

My questions is:
1) Is it free?
Yes, to some. Those of us who pay taxes shoulder the load.
We can walk into a medical clinic, hospital, doctor's office, or whatever, and they will ask to see our provincial health card. From there, we are asked to sit for several hours while the doctor finishes his round of golf and returns to push through a few patients.
When Canadians talk about a health plan, it isn't for direct medical attention. Corporate and private health plans, in Canada, cover things like drugs and some things that aren't covered by the health care system like crutches. I needed crutches when I had knee surgery about 10 years ago and, had I not have had coverage with my company, I would have had to pay a $10 rental fee for the crutches. For drugs, I pay only the dispensing fee. It usually is less than $2.
The effect of these corporate plans is that people go to their physician to have over the counter medications and treatments prescribed so they can be covered by their corporate drug plans. Health care ends up paying $85 for a doctor visit so a patient can have $20 worth of medication covered by their insurance.
2) Do they really use Indian medicine men?
Yes. Subjects are always needed when calibrating CT systems.
2) How far do you drive to get that same day CT Scan...4 days???
The CT machine is down the hall from the cancer center so if an oncologist were to request a CT, the walk (or roll if in a wheel chair) would be only a couple of minutes.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Don't have a clue what they pay. I do know what some guys are paying that took a buy out 3 years ago. They kept the Cigna Premium coverage and pay aprox $500/month for employee and spouse coverage. They're all over 50 y/o because you had to be at least 50 to take the buyout.
The problem with "free" health care are the people that take advantage of the system. That costs the ones that are able to pay more in the long run. IMO
Look at the fraud in Medicare and Medicaid. Hell look at the fraud in the Food Stamp program. Last year they arrested a ring here in Memphis that were making false ID's, applying for and receiving food stamps. It's a debit card now for those that don't have any exposure to it. Then selling the cards for half of the face value for cash. It was a mother and son led ring and neither one had a high school education but they had taken Uncle Sam for over a million bucks in food stamp fraud. That's why you can't compare the U.S to Canada and Switzerland. We have more scum in this country that would rather take advantage of the system than both those countries have in total population.
So now they're in jail for 30 years and we're still feeding the SOB's. Sorry but I'm tired of paying for scumbags that don't want to work and think they're supposed to be on some kind of entitlement program.
There is a great deal of insurance fraud among private health care providers as well. I'm not sure you are correct in your assumption that the US has more scum than other Countries.
Nothing is free!

[Big Warlock]

This is a good debate. No really easy answers. But I do like what I have. And I did make my points regarding socialized medicine.
Bottom line is something needs to be provided for those without, otherwise we (taxpayers) end up footing the bill anyways. I just don't think the level of care should be on par with those that pay into the system.

[WestTNRiverRat]

There is a great deal of insurance fraud among private health care providers as well. I'm not sure you are correct in your assumption that the US has more scum than other Countries.
Nothing is free!
More than Switzerland I'm sure. Don't know about Canada. :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

This is a good debate. No really easy answers. But I do like what I have. And I did make my points regarding socialized medicine.
Bottom line is something needs to be provided for those without, otherwise we (taxpayers) end up footing the bill anyways. I just don't think the level of care should be on par with those that pay into the system.
Rob, I agree. At least you understand.