Am I crazy pulling 6000lbs with an 02 Yukon?

[Jeff U.]

Hi Guys,
I'm looking at buying an early 80's oldschool daycruiser. Heavy boat, lots of wood. Boat weighs in at 5200 and I figure with the trailer and gear I'm at 6000.
The Yulon is a 2002, 5.3, 373, tow package. It's my wife's primary vehicle, and she loves it (I have a long commute, so I drive an Acura). We park the Yuk in the garage which is important to her, and me too quite frankly. I don't believe a Sub or XL would fit... too long.
I'm sure the Yuk would do fine on on the flats. My concern is Cajon Pass going to the river, and Grapevine going to Bass Lake. In a perfect world, I could buy a 2500 Yukon with an 8.1 and Allison trans but I can't. And I'm reading here on the board that people aren't that impressed with the 6.0 Denali's (I'm not even sure which trans that thing has, do they put Allison's in those).
Of course, maybe you all will say my Yukon will be fine. What do you think my options are?
Thanks
Jeff

[Oldschool427]

I have a friend that pulls his 24' Campbell Day Cruiser 5400 lbs on the trailer. It does alright, slow on grades mpg not so good. He stores his boat at Campbell in Havasu most of the time. It just depends on how often you tow and how far. I would be more concerned about stopping it a 65 mph then towing. Nothing like a truck chassis for stopping, even if trailer has brakes. I go with a 2500.
I tow my 24' Campbell behind my 30' 5th wheel, with my 2005 Ford SD F250 6.0 Power stroke. It stops all three.

[cc322]

Imo it will do ok, but ever since I went to a Superduty or any 3/4 ton truck it is so much more stable. Power is better, braking is better much more relaxed drive. You can always just store it out there and use the suv for launch ramps only :D

[Jeff U.]

I hear ya both. I'm probably only going to Havasu 2x a summer. My folks have a cabin on Lake Arrowhead with a dock. It will spend most of the summer up there. I'll bring it down the hill for Labor and Memorial Day weekends at Havasu.
I'll store it in OC because I see myself taking it in the ocean quite a bit. So at the end of the day, we're only talking about 2-3 trips a year to the river, and I'm having a hard time justifying the purchase of a new SUV just for that. But if the consensus was that the Yukon isn't an option, then I'd have to consider that.
Regarding the Denali... besides the 6.0 motor, is there anything else different in the drive train that would assist in towing (over the standard Yukon)? ie. larger radiator, better trans, larger breaks, etc.
Jeff

[Oldschool427]

Towing package is about all you can do at this point. It should have larger radiator and brakes with the towing package. I would make sure your boat trailer has a good set of brakes on it, electric disks. My is a 75 someone converted it in 1999 to electric disk.
If your looking for a day Cruiser go to our site: campbellboatowners.org look under classified.
http://campbellboatowners.org/cl-07-07_73-24-CC.html nice 73 24'

[cc322]

I personally dont think that there is a suv out there that does a great job of towing over a wide variety of roads. On the other hand the Excursion was imo the best suv for that sole purpose (towing) but they do not make it anymore. I think a 1/2 ton is a half ton no matter what, sure they rate them for a certain load but I wouldnt want to push it, you will only notice the difference when you bump up to a 3/4 ton. Like someone else mentioned tow package, and maybe taller gears.

[Beer-30]

I pulled my 8500-pounder behind my wife's '04 Yukon with auto-ride and 22s. The auto-ride leveled it right out and in the tow/haul mode, it stiffens the rear shocks for better stability. I read that in the manual :wink:
It did MUCH better than I expected it to. My previous dually needed brakes and a few other things when the purchase happened. We took the Yukon also because if we DIDN'T buy it, we would just be running the 5.3 to Scottsdale AZ and back and not the 454.
The trailer has discs on 4 wheels, so it really wasn't an issue with brakes. Suspension did great, love the autoride.
I wouldn't do it to the car again, though. Too much on the wheel bearings and such. If the surge brakes on the trailer went out, it would be a hell of a ride.
So, yes you CAN. But, no you SHOULDN'T.

[Jeff U.]

Thanks for the feedback, Beer. I actually did a search on this topic and read thru a number of your posts. Like I mentioned above, I only see 2-3 trips a year to the river, where I'd need to make it over Cajon Pass. It kills me to think of buying a new tow rig just for that. I'll try the Yukon and see how she does.
If I WERE to look into a Suburban (couple years old), is there a big difference between the 6.0 and 8.1? Could I get away with the 6.0? If the 6.0 would do the job, is there a reason why I couldn't use a Denali?
Sorry for all the questions, but I know a lot of you guys have already walked this path ;)

[Havasu Hangin']

No, you are not crazy. I used to tow my old daycruiser (6,000lbs) with a Tahoe and it did just fine. The key is to baby that tranny- they don't like hills. If you take it easy on the hills, the motor and trans will be very happy with you.
Hell, unless you have a dedicated tow vehicle, it's all about trade-offs anyway. These guys that tell you "bigger is better" for a vehicle that you will only tow a couple times a year with, don't have to pay the gas bill the other 362 days.
Can't tow with a SUV? lol...I'm using a 8.1 Sub to haul my 12Klb boat around, and it does great. In fact, I used my buddy's 07 1 ton Chevy 3500 dually to tow my boat, and I actually liked the Sub better (more comfortable).

[BadKachina]

Towing package is about all you can do at this point. It should have larger radiator and brakes with the towing package. I would make sure your boat trailer has a good set of brakes on it, electric disks. My is a 75 someone converted it in 1999 to electric disk.
If your looking for a day Cruiser go to our site: campbellboatowners.org look under classified.
http://campbellboatowners.org/cl-07-07_73-24-CC.html nice 73 24'
That's a cool old boat. If I needed a third I'd buy it.;)

[Jeff U.]

No, you are not crazy. I used to tow my old daycruiser (6,000lbs) with a Tahoe and it did just fine. The key is to baby that tranny- they don't like hills. If you take it easy on the hills, the motor and trans will be very happy with you.
Is there any point to my putting a trans cooler on the Yukon? Would that help at all? If yes, can you recommend one and place to get it installed?
Thanks!

[Beer-30]

Is there any point to my putting a trans cooler on the Yukon? Would that help at all? If yes, can you recommend one and place to get it installed?
Thanks!
If you ordered it originally with the towing package, it should be adequate for what you are doing.
If you had to add the hitch and wiring, you don't have the tow package and I would put a stacked-plate style ahead of the AC condenser somewhere.

[Jeff U.]

Beer, I'm the 2nd owner of this Yukon. I think it has the tow package as it has a real nice receiever mounted, with the trailer light hookups. The guy I bought it from said it had the tow package with the 3:73 rear. Is there a way I can confirm all this for myself? Maybe a sticker somewhere on the vehicle or something?

[Beer-30]

It would be on the sticker that has all of the three-digit codes. I think it would be in the center console or in the glove box. If someone here knows the code for trailering package? Also, the gear ratio is decoded there. I have forgotten more than I knew about that, I think the codes were GU? for ratio. GU4, GU6 - type of thing.
G80 is positraction, that one I know.

[Havasu Hangin']

Is there any point to my putting a trans cooler on the Yukon? Would that help at all? If yes, can you recommend one and place to get it installed?
Thanks!
I don't think those 1/2 ton Yukons come with an external trans cooler- just the one that is built into the radiator. The problem is that when you are on a hill, and your engine temp comes up, the radiator cooler becomes less effective. With no trans temp guage, it's easy to cook the trans without knowing it.
I put my own external cooler on with parts from Summit. If you aren't that handy with tools, most good trans shops will be able to plump one in front of the radiator for you.
Also, those L460E trans don't like towning in overdrive on slight hills. If the trans starts hunting gears, it will build up heat, so just downshift and slow down a little.
Really, the only thing that would kill that Yukon towing 6K lbs is inpatience. Keep it serviced with good fluid, take your time towing, and you'll be fine.

[Jeff U.]

Great info HH! I'll find a trans shop and look into getting a trans cooler. Anything else you guys would? I was thinking about a performance chip too. Are they worth the money?
Jeff

[YeLLowBoaT]

Really, the only thing that would kill that Yukon towing 6K lbs is inpatience. Keep it serviced with good fluid, take your time towing, and you'll be fine.
that statement is pretty much true of any truck... Always love seeing people towing a 25'+ boat up 50 to tahoe doing 70+ up the hills... Seem more then a few on the side of the road or at a truck stop with engine/tranny probs... always makes me smile :)
Best thing you can do to save your tranny is keep your foot out of it.

[Beer-30]

I have towed just about every type of combo. I am sure there are several setups that I haven't, but I have pulled trailers since before I could legally drive.
I dabbled in truck driving for awhile. That teaches one alot about hills, loads, gears, HP, etc.
My theory out of all of this: If it requires a 1/2ton, get a 3/4ton. If it requires/suggests a 3/4ton, get a 1ton. Etc, etc. It's not about being the biggest or baddest, it is safety and TIME. When you are pulling loads for a living/money, you can't afford to be broke down. If you step up the pulling unit to one-step above what is required, you stand a much better chance of not breaking it.
Now. For just the very occasional pull, it won't matter much. It is longevity I am referring to. If you plan on having a vehicle 5+ years and tow with it throughout the year - it becomes very important which vehicle you choose.
One of the reasons my '98 Dually was as nice as it was when I sold it after 9 years was how heavy-duty it was. All of those years of towing didn't phase it. No shakes, rattles, squeaks, saggy frame. It is hard to hurt a one-ton. I am not saying that EVERYONE should run out and get a one-ton. I just mention it as an example of what works for one may or not work for another.
That being said, HH and YellowBoat are exactly right. NO MATTER what the tow rig is, you just have to respect what it is doing at the time. With my '98 gas motor (7400 Vortec) I would let the load slow it down to where I could still accelerate uphill.
Example: As the incline knocked it down from OD, I would let it pull 3rd. If I could still gain speed in 3rd, I would leave it. If it was knocking it down more, I would let it gradually - at part throttle/not full - down to 50 or so and it would bump down to 2nd gear (4L80E). I never met a hill I couldn't pull in 2nd. At 50 in second, it was about 3400rpm. The engine sounded happy and not under a load. I could almost always accelerated, if I had to slow down to 45 or something, I could always regain speed. That meant the truck was "happy". I would just set the cruise and let it run.
I never broke any drivetrain pieces and the tranny fluid was always looking good.
Just treat it right.

[Havasu Hangin']

Great info HH! I'll find a trans shop and look into getting a trans cooler. Anything else you guys would? I was thinking about a performance chip too. Are they worth the money?
Jeff
If you are going to invest in a Tranny cooler, you may want a Tranny temp guage, too.
I put a Wester's Tune on my Sub, and the extra HP is nice. The only thing is that you need to be a little careful with your new found horsepower.
GM builds in "torque management" into their computers. This means that the computer will pull out timing during hard acceleration to save the tranny stress. If you modify the computer (and take some or all of the torque management out), understand that while towing, the extra torque will be transmitted to the tranny.
Like Beer-30 stated, if you climb hills at part-throttle, you'll be fine. With my Tahoe, I drug my 6,000lb boat up and down the Grapevine, Cajon Pass, and Needles grade in the heat with no problems at all.
Just be patient, downshift, and watch the trans temp as much as the engine temp. Trans temp is the true test of how hard your rig is working on hills.

[Jeff U.]

I'm thinking that a trans cooler and chip is the way to go, for my situation. Great advice on my needing to be aware of the "torque management" if I put a chip in it. I wouldn't have thought of that. Couple of questions:
1. I'm familiar with Superchips and Westers. Would you recommend one or the other? Do they both delete the "torque management" profile?
2. Can you recommend a trans cooler? Should I just go the GMC dealer and ask to have one put in? Aamco? I'll also look to have whoever does it put a gauge in too... which begs yet another question - what trans temp range should I stay in?
Thanks for all the help here guys, I appreciate it.
Jeff

[Havasu Hangin']

1. I'm familiar with Superchips and Westers. Would you recommend one or the other? Do they both delete the "torque management" profile?
After doing a little research, I went with the Westers. Lydon's tunes eliminate the torque management, and because of the dual tune I can run 87 or 91, depending on whether I am towing or not.
Is it better than Superchips? I guess that depends on who you ask. I'm not sure Hypertech or Superchips completely eliminate torque management, like the Westers does.
2. Can you recommend a trans cooler? Should I just go the GMC dealer and ask to have one put in? Aamco? I'll also look to have whoever does it put a gauge in too... which begs yet another question - what trans temp range should I stay in?
I replaced my stock one with the biggest one I could find, which might be a little overkill for a Yukon:
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/bmm-70297_w.jpg
The fan helps in the HOT Havasu temps on slow hills and stop-n-go traffic. Overall, it lowered my temps by 40 degrees or so, which is pretty amazing because my truck came with the HD package, which included an external tube and fin cooler.
Summit Coolers (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294924500+4294839034+115)
B&M says the plate type is better over the tube and fin type, but I'm not sure it will matter much on your Yukon. Most trans shops instal the Flex-o-Lite stuff.
As for the temps, here is a good rule of thumb:
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInfo/trans_life_expectancy.jpg
Mine used to average 200 degrees, and creep up to 240 degrees on long, slow hills. Now, it averages 150 degrees, and gets up to around 200 degrees on long, slow, hot hills.

[Jeff U.]

HH, great info! I think I look into the Westers chip.
Did you install the trans cooler yourself? If yes, can you describe the process a little?
Thanks!

[Havasu Hangin']

HH, great info! I think I look into the Westers chip.
Did you install the trans cooler yourself? If yes, can you describe the process a little?
Thanks!
Luckily, since mine had a cooler already installed, I just had to modify the stock plumbing. Basically, you have two hard lines- one runs from the trans to the radiator, and the return line exits the radiator back to the trans.
To help heat the oil a little, you can run the exit line from the radiator to the new cooler in front of the radiator (so the fluid will pass through the radiator first). Then, you'll need a line exiting from the new cooler, and tap into the return line to the trans that you removed from the radiator.
Or, you can bypass the radiator, and just plumb those lines directly to the new cooler in front of the radiator.
I did mine with aluminum hard line, and a small piece of steel braided. I used flared fittings, bent the aluminum tubing, and used AN fittings at the cooler and junction to the return line. The easier way would be to use rubber hose and barb fittings- that's up to you.
To mount it, some coolers just zip-tie to the radiator. I bought some aluminun stock from Home Depot, and cut and bent it to fab a couple brackets to mount it to the cross members behind the grill, but 1" off the radiator.
If you go rubber hose and barb fittings, it'll probably take you no more than a couple hours. Longer if you want to mess with the hard line bending and compression fittings.

[Jeff U.]

HH,
You are the man :) I'd say I'm ready to go.
Thanks for the all help guys! This is a great Forum.
Jeff

[brianthomas]

Luckily, since mine had a cooler already installed, I just had to modify the stock plumbing. Basically, you have two hard lines- one runs from the trans to the radiator, and the return line exits the radiator back to the trans.
To help heat the oil a little, you can run the exit line from the radiator to the new cooler in front of the radiator (so the fluid will pass through the radiator first). Then, you'll need a line exiting from the new cooler, and tap into the return line to the trans that you removed from the radiator.
Or, you can bypass the radiator, and just plumb those lines directly to the new cooler in front of the radiator.
I did mine with aluminum hard line, and a small piece of steel braided. I used flared fittings, bent the aluminum tubing, and used AN fittings at the cooler and junction to the return line. The easier way would be to use rubber hose and barb fittings- that's up to you.
To mount it, some coolers just zip-tie to the radiator. I bought some aluminun stock from Home Depot, and cut and bent it to fab a couple brackets to mount it to the cross members behind the grill, but 1" off the radiator.
If you go rubber hose and barb fittings, it'll probably take you no more than a couple hours. Longer if you want to mess with the hard line bending and compression fittings.
Just make sure you plumb it in the above described order. If you are unsure, start it up cold and see which line gets warm first, that is the outflow line.