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Froggystyle
12-15-2007, 11:04 PM
Over dinner, Audrey and I were discussing illegal immigration. She was concerned about why nobody is focusing on the obvious first step of getting rid of the US's "anchor baby" policy. I pretty much mentioned that with our current leadership and the mindset of Americans, nobody except legal workers is particularly concerned about the illegal problem.
I bottom lined it frankly by saying... what do you care? How does it affect you?
Her answer was simple... increased health care costs, increased auto insurance costs and decreased public safety.
Over the course of the dinner, I figured out how to nearly completely eliminate illegal drivers and "free" healthcare for illegals.
A) Mandate that in order to buy gas you need to show and swipe a valid drivers license.
B) In order to get health care you need to show and swipe a valid identification card.
In "A"... you do the following. You make it impossible for someone with a suspended license, no license or a warrant for arrest to buy fuel. Additionally, if they swipe it, you just gave the authorities an absolute location for them. Anyone with an APB would be unable to buy gas. Warrant for arrest... come and get them, here they are. You sure as hell wouldn't be able to buy gas if you didn't have an ID.
In "B" I figure it is like this... if you go eat dinner and inform the waitress that you have no means of paying, but you were hungry... they call the cops. Same thing should happen to anyone getting health care without a means of paying for it. If you don't have ID, don't have a job or aren't legal... the cops get called if you get health care. This allows us to provide basic emergency care with a clear conscience, but also allows us to prosecute anyone who gets it without being able to show intent to pay for it. Most importantly, if you are illegal... you just got caught. We patch them up and deport them. Period. After they get arrested for doing the medical equivalent of a "dine and dash".
If we remove the anchor baby program and set up these two things it would remove two of the biggest impact items that illegal immigrants have on us.
All gas stations have the ability to swipe a credit card these days. Veri-Sign terminals can absolutely read an ID, so just add that step to buying gas. Swipe your card, enter your Zip code, swipe your ID, pump your gas...
Oh, you are paying cash? When you hand the clerk your cash to start a pump you need to hand over your drivers license as well. They swipe it, call it good.
What if your card goes bad? Easy day... same as a credit card, you call it in.
Whaddya think?

C-2
12-15-2007, 11:10 PM
Me thinks the food must have sucked ;) :D

Ryphraph
12-15-2007, 11:38 PM
Papers! Papers!...
Ryph

boatsnblondes
12-15-2007, 11:41 PM
Me thinks the food must have sucked ;) :D
Seconded............:rolleyes:

MADDOG355
12-15-2007, 11:46 PM
I think that is the most intelligent thing I have ever read on the boards, I actually don't see a down side.

mickeyfinn
12-16-2007, 12:13 AM
I don't have a problem with the plan as you laid it out,howver I don't think it would work.
1. You just mandated a national ID. I don't trust our government not to misuse the data collected and I don't trust them to secure it.The gov will now have yet another database with personal info as well as where abouts, hospital visits etc.
2. The problem todat is not being able to find them, hell they are everywhere! The problem is that nothing is done with them once found.
3. I say that if you are trying to solve the illegal problem we admit that a little racial profiling may cause minor problems for a minority of peoplewhile helping to solve a bigger problem.
4. When we find a probable illegal give them 30 minutes to direct law enforcement to their papers.If they can't produce them, deport them!! Immediately!! If they have legal papers, they know where they are.
This will be very effective and can be instituted now.

Kachina26
12-16-2007, 12:30 AM
Over dinner, Audrey and I were discussing illegal immigration. She was concerned about why nobody is focusing on the obvious first step of getting rid of the US's "anchor baby" policy. I pretty much mentioned that with our current leadership and the mindset of Americans, nobody except legal workers is particularly concerned about the illegal problem.
I bottom lined it frankly by saying... what do you care? How does it affect you?
Her answer was simple... increased health care costs, increased auto insurance costs and decreased public safety.
Over the course of the dinner, I figured out how to nearly completely eliminate illegal drivers and "free" healthcare for illegals.
A) Mandate that in order to buy gas you need to show and swipe a valid drivers license.
B) In order to get health care you need to show and swipe a valid identification card.
In "A"... you do the following. You make it impossible for someone with a suspended license, no license or a warrant for arrest to buy fuel. Additionally, if they swipe it, you just gave the authorities an absolute location for them. Anyone with an APB would be unable to buy gas. Warrant for arrest... come and get them, here they are. You sure as hell wouldn't be able to buy gas if you didn't have an ID.
In "B" I figure it is like this... if you go eat dinner and inform the waitress that you have no means of paying, but you were hungry... they call the cops. Same thing should happen to anyone getting health care without a means of paying for it. If you don't have ID, don't have a job or aren't legal... the cops get called if you get health care. This allows us to provide basic emergency care with a clear conscience, but also allows us to prosecute anyone who gets it without being able to show intent to pay for it. Most importantly, if you are illegal... you just got caught. We patch them up and deport them. Period. After they get arrested for doing the medical equivalent of a "dine and dash".
If we remove the anchor baby program and set up these two things it would remove two of the biggest impact items that illegal immigrants have on us.
All gas stations have the ability to swipe a credit card these days. Veri-Sign terminals can absolutely read an ID, so just add that step to buying gas. Swipe your card, enter your Zip code, swipe your ID, pump your gas...
Oh, you are paying cash? When you hand the clerk your cash to start a pump you need to hand over your drivers license as well. They swipe it, call it good.
What if your card goes bad? Easy day... same as a credit card, you call it in.
Whaddya think?
I think you need to have ol Rob give you a lesson in Macroeconomics. That is once he learns how to spell it. No offense intended there Rob :notam:

Infomaniac
12-16-2007, 06:23 AM
Why not just move to Oklahoma :D
It's a ghost town in the areas that were mostly Mexican.
And somehow we are able to exist without them.
You will have to run for office in order to implement those ideas. Great ones even so.
Over dinner, Audrey and I were discussing illegal immigration. She was concerned about why nobody is focusing on the obvious first step of getting rid of the US's "anchor baby" policy. I pretty much mentioned that with our current leadership and the mindset of Americans, nobody except legal workers is particularly concerned about the illegal problem.
I bottom lined it frankly by saying... what do you care? How does it affect you?
Her answer was simple... increased health care costs, increased auto insurance costs and decreased public safety.
Over the course of the dinner, I figured out how to nearly completely eliminate illegal drivers and "free" healthcare for illegals.
A) Mandate that in order to buy gas you need to show and swipe a valid drivers license.
B) In order to get health care you need to show and swipe a valid identification card.
In "A"... you do the following. You make it impossible for someone with a suspended license, no license or a warrant for arrest to buy fuel. Additionally, if they swipe it, you just gave the authorities an absolute location for them. Anyone with an APB would be unable to buy gas. Warrant for arrest... come and get them, here they are. You sure as hell wouldn't be able to buy gas if you didn't have an ID.
In "B" I figure it is like this... if you go eat dinner and inform the waitress that you have no means of paying, but you were hungry... they call the cops. Same thing should happen to anyone getting health care without a means of paying for it. If you don't have ID, don't have a job or aren't legal... the cops get called if you get health care. This allows us to provide basic emergency care with a clear conscience, but also allows us to prosecute anyone who gets it without being able to show intent to pay for it. Most importantly, if you are illegal... you just got caught. We patch them up and deport them. Period. After they get arrested for doing the medical equivalent of a "dine and dash".
If we remove the anchor baby program and set up these two things it would remove two of the biggest impact items that illegal immigrants have on us.
All gas stations have the ability to swipe a credit card these days. Veri-Sign terminals can absolutely read an ID, so just add that step to buying gas. Swipe your card, enter your Zip code, swipe your ID, pump your gas...
Oh, you are paying cash? When you hand the clerk your cash to start a pump you need to hand over your drivers license as well. They swipe it, call it good.
What if your card goes bad? Easy day... same as a credit card, you call it in.
Whaddya think?

WestTNRiverRat
12-16-2007, 06:31 AM
Valid drivers license and a valid ID card...just two more things for an illegal to steal. :(

franky
12-16-2007, 07:07 AM
Big Brother

Sherpa
12-16-2007, 07:11 AM
Valid drivers license and a valid ID card...just two more things for an illegal to steal. :(
stolen id card only works for as long as it hasn't been reported.
Wes, the theory sounds great.......... I personally don't like the government
having access to all that information created myself..... they would know
how/when you buy gas.... they could in a pinch implement a "rationing"
program at will if they felt the need........... imagine that one....
--biodiesel created at home....... now they have no control...
--Sherpa
the medical part of it sounds EXCELLENT-!
the sad part is, until the government feels the need to actually follow thru
with deporting and keeping illegals out of our country, nothing will happen.

HammerDown
12-16-2007, 07:20 AM
.../the sad part is, until the government feels the need to actually follow thru
with deporting and keeping illegals out of our country, nothing will happen.
Sad, but true...

WestTNRiverRat
12-16-2007, 07:54 AM
stolen id card only works for as long as it hasn't been reported.
Just like a credit card...but nobody steals them. :D

Miss Perfect
12-16-2007, 08:12 AM
Papers! Papers!...
Ryph
Exactly! The government has enough control over me and I don't need them saying if I can buy gas or not. Because you know it would not stop.... pretty soon, if you have any kind of judgement against you - no gas. There is a gas shortage - you can buy gas on Mondays and Tuesdays if you were born in January. You get the idea...
I rate the driver's Lic to get gas idea right up there with the electronic device that lets the police stop your car. In theory it's a good idea, but there are just so many ways it can go wrong.

MBlaster
12-16-2007, 08:31 AM
Nice idea but what about tourists that are here on vacation that need to buy gas.
Sorry but welcome to United States of Amerexico.
Absolutly nothing is going to change in this country because all the politicians are too afraid to piss off the huge mexican voting base.

Magic34
12-16-2007, 08:44 AM
Exactly! The government has enough control over me and I don't need them saying if I can buy gas or not. Because you know it would not stop.... pretty soon, if you have any kind of judgement against you - no gas. There is a gas shortage - you can buy gas on Mondays and Tuesdays if you were born in January. You get the idea...
I rate the driver's Lic to get gas idea right up there with the electronic device that lets the police stop your car. In theory it's a good idea, but there are just so many ways it can go wrong.
Get tanks installed that hold 150-175 gallons and it will last you months. That's what I do. :D
Although, when it gets low, the total bill really hurts. I am under 1/4 tank now. :( Waiting for my tax return to fill her up. :)

Jesster
12-16-2007, 08:57 AM
I was thinking about this a while back also. The Social Security card needs to be redone anyway. I say reissue it as a form of ID to all legal citizens. When somebody is pulled over or apply's for any type of government assistance they have to swipe the "new" Social security card or whatever they want to call it. It wouldn't work as fast as Froggy's idea but would bypass the whole invasion of privacy issue and the racial profiling issue.
Then, if they do get arrested they have a chance at proving they are a productive part of society without wants or warrants and put on some type of guest worker program, because as has been pointed out here a number of times there aren't enough Americans to fill the amount of jobs that would be left vacant.

Sportin' Wood
12-16-2007, 08:59 AM
Not bad ideas but it would create even more gov't, and we could use less.
How do you get the greedy non rule following alQueda memeber at the 7-11 to not do a back door deal for the illegel and double his profit margin?

Dribble
12-16-2007, 09:01 AM
Sounds great. I'm preparing my Craigslist ad right now. Card swiping $5.00 a shot. I swipe my card for you and you slip me a fiver. I'm quitting my job tomorrow.
Somehow I don't think that requiring someone to pre-pay when their guts are falling out on the floor or their leg is broken in three places is going to work.
Having the police there to take you to jail because you can't write the hospital a check for $63,000.00 is probably not going to save public money in the long run.
Of course. I don't have a better plan....

Wet Dream
12-16-2007, 09:20 AM
No downside? The black market for ID's just went global, topping the list of organized crime.

YeLLowBoaT
12-16-2007, 09:30 AM
I'd much rather see them have DL checks every once in awhile... no DL, you lose the car and get arrested...if your illegal.... deported.
of corse this is assuming that we actually do something to secure our boarders...

Baja Big Dog
12-16-2007, 09:35 AM
I keep pressing #2 for Spanish...cant seem to get it!!!:eek:

Phat Matt
12-16-2007, 10:00 AM
How about we organize a march and throw a big net over every who shows up. :)

bonechip
12-16-2007, 10:11 AM
I think we should tell mex that they will belong to us as of such and such of date. I mean think about, all that beautiful shoreline, All kinds of new lakes and rivers to go to or buy land along those shores. I mean think about they still cant get it right, So why not, Just tell them you belong to us bitches.

Cheap Thrills
12-16-2007, 10:14 AM
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his
image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the
wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation, and he shall be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."
Revelation 14:9,10.
"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both
speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed ... And that
no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:15,17.
One Step Closer (http://www.verichipcorp.com/)click
I hate to go all apocalyptic on it but I have some really strong feelings where universal IDs are concerned.
I'm finished , carry on...
T.

Froggystyle
12-16-2007, 10:18 AM
You guys bring up great points, most of which I agree with. I would like to address the big ones one at a time...
"Don't like bigger government" I agree, but only kind of. I don't like bigger government for welfare, social programs, taxation, subsidies etc... I like the idea of using the goverment to enforce existing laws, and giving them the tools to do it with. I am firmly in favor of the Patriot Act, as I am neither a terrorist nor a lawbreaker at any real level. I would prefer if people who were either were easier to catch and prosecute.
"Don't want to give them that much information" They already have it. Trust me. And a lot more. This would give the boots on the ground solid intel as to where perps were exactly at a given time. I would happily do away with thousands of welfare-based programs to put more prosecuting cops on the beat. Credit cards do get stolen, but people are going to jail for that more often than not. Either way, it doesn't really effect us anymore because we are protected by our card companies pretty aggressively now.
"National ID" Not really. Still a state ID. In order to get a drivers license you need to pass the test, prove who you are, fingerprint, show insurance and and show residency. These are the keys to this plan. If you have all of that stuff, I have no problem with you driving or buying gas. If you don't, this will remove the fuel and get the problem off the road.
"I'll swipe your card for $5" How? If you are paying by cash, you need to show your ID to the clerk and have it be valid. Treat it exactly the same way we treat cigarrettes, alcohol etc... Except that it would also be electronically verified. If you are paying with a credit card, the ID has to match the credit card. It has to anyway to use one in person... this would take your credit card security level up much, much higher... at least where gas is concerned.
"Achmed backdooring to illegals" There is these things called "audits" and if you are going through more fuel than you are claiming, that is called tax evasion and you can go to jail for it. If you are highlighted by an audit and investigated and shown to be backdooring fuel, you go to jail under a new plan that would be essentially as bad as selling alcohol or cigarrettes to a minor.
"Make it easier to ration" Good! If we need to ration, it should be easy and non-sidesteppable. Our government isn't going to ration unless it needs to because of an emergency. I would prefer if that process was easy, clear and fair.
"We can find them now, we just don't do anything about it" I don't believe this is true. While it may seem obvious that someone is illegal, you need to pull them over to find out for sure, or have them commit a crime and get caught. You can't just go up to someone and as mentioned, say "Papers Please" in America. If you do, you have to do it to everyone, and I am certainly not down with that.
This is merely a matter of regulating the purchase of fuel, just like the aforementioned alcohol or tobacco. If you think about it, there is ZERO reason we shouldn't be doing it. You have to prove you are 18 to buy spray paint. You have to prove you are 18 to buy a lottery ticket... you should have to prove you have a license to buy fuel. As mentioned, this sidesteps profiling, because it removes a fundamental need... fuel.
Implemented, we would burn less of it as a result, reducing the price of gas probably quite a bit.
With the hospital aspect, it seems obvious to me that if you go in for any type of service, be it health care or dinner and don't have a means to pay for it you have committed a crime. If you can't pay, you need to set up a plan where you will have to. If you refuse to, you go to jail for it... that is how it works. Our insurance would cost less, and you wouldn't see the benefit of "free" medical for people without the means to pay for it.
I am not so draconian as to think you shouldn't provide emergency care, but why should we pay for it? If you need to do the equivalent of "doing the dishes to pay for your dinner"... so be it. If you can't pay, I am a big fan of debtors prisons. Do some road work, build a border fence ( ;) ) clean up roadways, fight fires etc... There is no repercussion right now, and there needs to be. If you are illegal and get caught doing this... you get deported as soon as you are stabilized, but put in a secure wing first.
I noticed nobody seems to have an issue with getting rid of "anchor babies". Why do we still have that policy?
I am not going to get into my solution for the actual naturalization of the workforce just yet, but this would be the leverage to do it with. Become legal, or get stopped in your tracks. Regulate the fundamental needs, and you regulate the problem.

SHOTKALLIN
12-16-2007, 10:23 AM
There are lots of great ideas on how to solve the problem. I still think the first step has to be secure the border.

Big Warlock
12-16-2007, 10:23 AM
I think you need to have ol Rob give you a lesson in Macroeconomics. That is once he learns how to spell it. No offense intended there Rob :notam:
LOL none taken!! :) My spelling sucks as much as anyone's on here!!

hotrod56cars
12-16-2007, 10:23 AM
On the surface they are great idea's, but as stated before what about tourists's trying to buy fuel? A temp. fuel card? Most likely if it's a temp. card it would be too easy to duplicate.
The best day of my job was the day Mexican-Americans boycotted the US. There was much less traffic. Why aren't they called American-Mexicans?
I say instead of kicking the illegals out keep them in - to build jails and to build better "fences" on our borders, that way we can house, feed, and give them all the free medical care we can. :(

Big Warlock
12-16-2007, 10:29 AM
I always want "Macro" and "Micro" to be verbs and not part of the actual word. Who knows why?? My bad!!:confused:

Kachina26
12-16-2007, 10:34 AM
LOL none taken!! :) My spelling sucks as much as anyone's on here!!
;)

Froggystyle
12-16-2007, 10:35 AM
Forgot to address the vacationer...
What makes it legal to drive here while on vacation? If you are Peruvian and have a Peruvian drivers license... is that legal in California for the purposes of driving? Probably not. But in any case, if you are from a different country vacationing in America... you might have to take a taxi.
Better yet... regulate it at the rental place. Let them deal with it. Car rentals come with gas. Maybe you buy your fuel from the company on a pre-paid card. Buy your $200 worth of gas on a card and use that. Still need to show ID. Seems you would need insurance as well... I don't think this is as much of a problem as it would seem...
If you are talking about interstate vacationing, all ID's would be brought up to this standard. They would be state issued, but just as all states are sharing information right now regarding warrants and such, it would also cross over for validity concerns.
Question to LE... what type of license do you need to produce to be legal to drive here?

Froggystyle
12-16-2007, 10:37 AM
There are lots of great ideas on how to solve the problem. I still think the first step has to be secure the border.
Only because there is a life here worth crossing it for. Without fuel, medical or anchor babies... the reason to cross would be nullified.
Like I said, phase two incorporates legalizing workers, getting their taxes and righteously burning employers who hire illegals.

sanger rat
12-16-2007, 10:45 AM
Some good ideas. But what about the black market it would create?

haysonj
12-16-2007, 10:48 AM
Why dont we just turn over everything we own and let the good ol trust worthy government give us what we need. First thing they will do is ban boats because they use too much fuel.:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

Kachina26
12-16-2007, 10:56 AM
Many good ideas there Wes, but before I would back an all new plan, I'd like to see the laws that are in place being enforced. Seriously, if the "boots on the ground" wanted to know where the perps were at any given time, all they would have to do is check any hospital emergency room. Or how about areas that are well known gathering spots for "day laborers"? Surely if some unscrupulous contractor can find them, then our government should be able to figure it out. The problem, they don't want to, and that's both sides of the isle.

One Particular Harbor
12-16-2007, 11:13 AM
Froggy,
I am of two minds on this. On one hand, birthright citizenship is a constitutional right (14th amendment) and has been a basic tenet of the US since, I believe, the 1860's.
On the other hand, perhaps it is time for a change. Birthright citizenship essentially provides the potential for a reward (US citizenship) as the result of an illegal act (illegal immigration). This doesn't sit well with me and perhaps it is time that we re-evaluate the 14th amendment to determine if perhaps we shouldn't apply a qualification to birthright citizenship (i.e. you should have legal status in the US for citizenship to be awarded to your children born here). If I not mistaken, there is some precedent for this as I do not believe birthright citizenship applies to the children of foreign diplomats.
I certainly do not believe that the proposers of the 14th amendment considered the current state of illegal immigration in framing this amendment.
Just my lousy $.02, but I do believe the Constitution should be a living, breathing document (hence, the need for amendments). And, as circumstances change, so too should we consider additional amendments.
OPH

One Particular Harbor
12-16-2007, 11:13 AM
Froggy,
I am of two minds on this. On one hand, birthright citizenship is a constitutional right (14th amendment) and has been a basic tenet of the US since, I believe, the 1860's.
On the other hand, perhaps it is time for a change. Birthright citizenship essentially provides the potential for a reward (US citizenship) as the result of an illegal act (illegal immigration). This doesn't sit well with me and perhaps it is time that we re-evaluate the 14th amendment to determine if perhaps we shouldn't apply a qualification to birthright citizenship (i.e. you should have legal status in the US for citizenship to be awarded to your children born here). If I not mistaken, there is some precedent for this as I do not believe birthright citizenship applies to the children of foreign diplomats.
I certainly do not believe that the proposers of the 14th amendment considered the current state of illegal immigration in framing this amendment.
Just my lousy $.02, but I do believe the Constitution should be a living, breathing document (hence, the need for amendments). And, as circumstances change, so too should we consider additional amendments.
OPH

One Particular Harbor
12-16-2007, 11:14 AM
(nt)

spectras only
12-16-2007, 11:43 AM
Forgot to address the vacationer...
What makes it legal to drive here while on vacation? If you are Peruvian and have a Peruvian drivers license... is that legal in California for the purposes of driving? Probably not. But in any case, if you are from a different country vacationing in America... you might have to take a [B]taxi.
?
Wes , on my last round trip in the US , I drove over 4000 miles ,going in different directions ,finally visiting family in SD . How much would have that cost in taxi fares :idea: :) . Some of your other ideas on this topic is OK with me ;)

homelessinaz
12-16-2007, 12:10 PM
I am going to get one of those trucks that holds 5,000 gallons of gasoline, the type that is used to refuel fleets of trucks at night, and I am going to drive it to the barrio and sell gas with a slight markup for my trouble. You might think I'm being obstructive, but really I just want to make sure that the migrants will be able to get the gas they need to run the mowers in your yards. Plus, I want to make sure they can get to the boat shops to paint your 100K boats too. I'd hate to see you all have to get up and get your own bowl of chips at your favorite Mexican retaurants in Havasu, so we'll need gas to get those migrants to those jobs too. While we're at it, those migrant ladies who make the beds at your time shares are going to need some gas too.
Instead of going through all this trouble with the Border Patrol, ICE, the Social Security Administration, the MVD, the "Real ID Act" and all these other bureaucrats, instead of repealing the 14th amendment, why don't we just get right to it and repeal the 13th amendment? You guys can have the best of both worlds then...you'll have your slaves back (except this time they'll be Mexicans) and they won't be getting in your way all the time at the gas pumps, unless you send them to refuel your cars. You can just write them a note saying that it's okay for them to gas up your car.
If they try to get away or refuse to submit then you can just shoot them for being runaways or trying to start a slave rebellion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBQxPUBks_U
Homeless

Slow What
12-16-2007, 12:17 PM
There is a problem with the Driver's Lisence as Valid I.D. , The going rate used to be $700.00 for a D.L. that was valid if checked buy scan or ran buy L.E. :eek: :mad:

stoker
12-16-2007, 12:47 PM
I am going to get one of those trucks that holds 5,000 gallons of gasoline, the type that is used to refuel fleets of trucks at night, and I am going to drive it to the barrio and sell gas with a slight markup for my trouble. You might think I'm being obstructive, but really I just want to make sure that the migrants will be able to get the gas they need to run the mowers in your yards. Plus, I want to make sure they can get to the boat shops to paint your 100K boats too. I'd hate to see you all have to get up and get your own bowl of chips at your favorite Mexican retaurants in Havasu, so we'll need gas to get those migrants to those jobs too. While we're at it, those migrant ladies who make the beds at your time shares are going to need some gas too.
Instead of going through all this trouble with the Border Patrol, ICE, the Social Security Administration, the MVD, the "Real ID Act" and all these other bureaucrats, instead of repealing the 14th amendment, why don't we just get right to it and repeal the 13th amendment? You guys can have the best of both worlds then...you'll have your slaves back (except this time they'll be Mexicans) and they won't be getting in your way all the time at the gas pumps, unless you send them to refuel your cars. You can just write them a note saying that it's okay for them to gas up your car.
If they try to get away or refuse to submit then you can just shoot them for being runaways or trying to start a slave rebellion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBQxPUBks_U
Homeless
Here, I fixed it for you ;)
Conseguiré uno de esos camiones que tiene 5.000 galones de gasolina, el tipo que es utilizado para poner combustible a flotas de camiones de noche, y yo lo manejaré al barrio y venderé gas con una alza del precio establecido leve para mi problema. Usted quizás piense que soy de obstrucción, pero realmente yo sólo quiero cerciorarse que los emigrantes podrán conseguir el gas que ellos necesitan correr los cortacéspedes en sus yardas. Además, quiero cerciorarse ellos pueden llegar a las tiendas del barco para pintar sus barcos 100K también. OdiarÃ*a verles tienen que levantarse y conseguir su propio tazón de pastillas en su mexicano favorito retaurants en Havasu, asÃ* que necesitaremos gas para conseguir a esos emigrantes a esos trabajos también. Mientras estamos en ello, esas damas migratorias que tienden el camas en sus acciones de tiempo necesitarán algún gas también.
¿En vez de atravesar todo este problema con la Patrulla de fronteras, el HIELO, la Administración de la Seguridad social, el MVD, el "el Acto Verdadero de identificación" y todo estos otros burócratas, en vez de revocar la enmienda decimocuarta, por qué no conseguimos nosotros apenas derecho a y revoca la enmienda decimotercero? Usted tipos lo puede tener todo entonces. ..you'll tiene su espalda de esclavos (menos esta vez ellos serán mexicanos) y ellos no estarán entrando su manera todo el tiempo en las bombas de gas, a menos que usted los mande a poner combustible a sus coches. Usted acaba de los escribir una nota que dice que está bien para ellos asfixiar con gas arriba su coche.
Si ellos tratan de huir o negarse a someterse entonces usted acaba de los disparar para es fugitivos o tratando de empezar una rebelión de esclavo.

Icarus prospector
12-16-2007, 01:34 PM
Privatize the border security. Get the Soldier of Fortune yahoo's from Iraq over here, park 'em in the dirt and let'em have target practice.
I'm only half kidding.

homelessinaz
12-16-2007, 01:42 PM
Here, I fixed it for you ;)
Conseguiré uno de esos camiones que tiene 5.000 galones de gasolina, el tipo que es utilizado para poner combustible a flotas de camiones de noche, y yo lo manejaré al barrio y venderé gas con una alza del precio establecido leve para mi problema. Usted quizás piense que soy de obstrucción, pero realmente yo sólo quiero cerciorarse que los emigrantes podrán conseguir el gas que ellos necesitan correr los cortacéspedes en sus yardas. Además, quiero cerciorarse ellos pueden llegar a las tiendas del barco para pintar sus barcos 100K también. OdiarÃ*a verles tienen que levantarse y conseguir su propio tazón de pastillas en su mexicano favorito retaurants en Havasu, asÃ* que necesitaremos gas para conseguir a esos emigrantes a esos trabajos también. Mientras estamos en ello, esas damas migratorias que tienden el camas en sus acciones de tiempo necesitarán algún gas también.
¿En vez de atravesar todo este problema con la Patrulla de fronteras, el HIELO, la Administración de la Seguridad social, el MVD, el "el Acto Verdadero de identificación" y todo estos otros burócratas, en vez de revocar la enmienda decimocuarta, por qué no conseguimos nosotros apenas derecho a y revoca la enmienda decimotercero? Usted tipos lo puede tener todo entonces. ..you'll tiene su espalda de esclavos (menos esta vez ellos serán mexicanos) y ellos no estarán entrando su manera todo el tiempo en las bombas de gas, a menos que usted los mande a poner combustible a sus coches. Usted acaba de los escribir una nota que dice que está bien para ellos asfixiar con gas arriba su coche.
Si ellos tratan de huir o negarse a someterse entonces usted acaba de los disparar para es fugitivos o tratando de empezar una rebelión de esclavo.
Muchas gracias.
Sin Hogar

burtandnancy2
12-16-2007, 02:34 PM
Froggy, only problem with solution A is, the retailers for gas won't go along with their customers needing to swipe a card, they are all on the cash system anyway. Don't you pay all your illegal help in greenbacks? I do...

Goad
12-16-2007, 03:26 PM
i like the idea....but one word comes to mind that will throw this idea so fast it will make your head spin.
privacy.
people dont want to be tracked....the legal people that is....then there will be all these conspiracy theorys that the government is involved in tracking your personal information...blah blah blah.
remember, theres still a lot of hippies in this country.

coolchange
12-16-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm npt doing anything wrong (on purpose) and I don't want someone watching me like they think I might be or decide I am based on my "information". And if there's a problem with my "information" it probably won't be much of a problem to straighten it out with the SS administration or the DMV so my whole life doesn't stop in its tracks..:rolleyes: There is already enough laws to take care of it if they only would.

Froggystyle
12-16-2007, 04:43 PM
Blanket statement here, but the only "law" I am proposing is to require a drivers license to purchase fuel. On a basic and on a global level, it is a great idea.
I am all for a good consipracy theory as much as the next guy, but I could care less if "they" know how often and where I buy gas.
I am an advocate of making things that are illegal have a repercussion... or legalize them. But don't allow a whole major group of people to be running around living in fear of reprisal. It is cruel to have the status quo as it is.
Froggy, only problem with solution A is, the retailers for gas won't go along with their customers needing to swipe a card, they are all on the cash system anyway. Don't you pay all your illegal help in greenbacks? I do...
You are likely kidding, but on the two notes here, they won't have a choice. That is like saying they are not going to like their liquor clients having to show ID. Doesn't matter what they go along with.
And on the second... I don't have illegal help. Nor do my vendors to the best of my knowledge. But, I did have an illegal guy through here recently that had just left his job at a different local boat builder and was looking for work. My favorite part of that is claims on their parts that they don't have illegal labor. Right... :rolleyes:

Froggystyle
12-16-2007, 04:49 PM
Seriously, if the "boots on the ground" wanted to know where the perps were at any given time, all they would have to do is check any hospital emergency room. Or how about areas that are well known gathering spots for "day laborers"? Surely if some unscrupulous contractor can find them, then our government should be able to figure it out. The problem, they don't want to, and that's both sides of the isle.
They need to be doing something illegal to get questioned. Otherwise it is profiling and harrassment. I agree that it should be easier than it is, but most of the LE that I know that come across an actual illegal send them to INS for deportation.
Removing the fuel solves the problem. If my credit card company can shut my card off because I have traveled to Arizona over the course of the last three hours and tried to buy fuel again and it assumes my card was compromised, I am pretty sure we can sort out multiple people using the same ID pretty quickly.
The aforementioned laborer in my last post had a "valid" DL. But, his SS# was being used by five different folks in So Cal. If they were interested in prosecuting, it would be easy enough. They have information, just no desire to "go get them"
On the fuel swipe program, this kind of dual use would get flagged nearly immediately and investigated. The real owner of the card would get questioned more than likely and a new card would be issued. Done deal. Four people out of gas.

FOXMAN
12-16-2007, 05:02 PM
Exactly! The government has enough control over me and I don't need them saying if I can buy gas or not. Because you know it would not stop.... pretty soon, if you have any kind of judgement against you - no gas. There is a gas shortage - you can buy gas on Mondays and Tuesdays if you were born in January. You get the idea...
I rate the driver's Lic to get gas idea right up there with the electronic device that lets the police stop your car. In theory it's a good idea, but there are just so many ways it can go wrong.
I kind of get your point.. But if you've done nothing wrong, What are you afraid of?

hotrod56cars
12-16-2007, 05:15 PM
OK, I'm sold. I agree with the idea of a valid DL req'd to buy gasoline. I don't want minors buying gas, I don't want adults that don't have a license to buy gas, and I don't want illegals buying gas either. ;)
Big Brother, Privacy, Conspiracy Theorist's/Theories, I don't care if Uncle Sam knows that I drink Southern Comfort (valid DL req'd) or if I try to run 87 pump gas in a 11:1 engine (should be req'd to show a valid DL).

Froggystyle
12-16-2007, 05:24 PM
.... pretty soon, if you have any kind of judgement against you - no gas.
How ****in sweet would that be! Someone doesn't settle their debts... cut the gas. Doesn't pay their child support... cut the gas.
Geez... the arm it would give our legal system would be frickin phenomenal. There would be an actual fundamental reason to come clean!
My family had a boat stolen from them, knew who did it and sued him. It was some deadbeat from NorCal named Glen Waley (sp?) back in the early 80's. He sold us the boat, we paid in full for it and then in an agreement to meet us to deliver the pink slip which he was finally producing, he instead went to our house and stole the boat, which he had the title to..
All lessons learned aside, we went to court and won. They put an injunction on him, and would have probably made life pretty difficult for old Glen if he had gotten pulled over or anything. But, he dropped off the planet essentially, and took our boat with it.
Being able to cut of that turds gas would have been awesome. Still would be.
Anyone know Glen? :idea:

Goad
12-16-2007, 07:02 PM
but cant illegals get valid licenses from the DMV no problem?

Blown 472
12-16-2007, 07:08 PM
Rather then running your pie holes on here, why dont you tell this to your elected officals??

My Man's Sportin' Wood
12-16-2007, 07:22 PM
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775
One of my all time favorite quotes.
Good ideas, Wes. I wish we could see something like that put to action. I sincerely feel, however, if the laws on the books were enforced though (except the anchor babies amendment), much of the problem would be solved. Jeff had an illegal in his office trying to get a job with a fake DL and SS card. He spent 4 hours on the phone trying to get this guy taken away. Nope, nothing they would do. They'd rather fine the employers and collect the SS without ever having to pay it out. It's all about the money and that is the bottom line. That is why the gov't will NEVER do anything about the issue.

homelessinaz
12-16-2007, 10:23 PM
Why should we stop at gas? Why don't we give the government en even GREATER law enforcement tool by making it so that you have to have a national ID to buy ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING? Simply put, you would need to prove you were a citizen in good standing to engage in any commerce whatsoever.
Actually, instead of carrying around an ID card you could just get a permanent mark on your body (maybe the forehead, maybe the back of the hand) that proves you're allowed to buy and sell.
I can't take credit for this idea myself, though, it was in this book I read one time called "Revelations".
Homeless

Kachina26
12-16-2007, 10:36 PM
Why should we stop at gas? Why don't we give the government en even GREATER law enforcement tool by making it so that you have to have a national ID to buy ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING? Simply put, you would need to prove you were a citizen in good standing to engage in any commerce whatsoever.
Actually, instead of carrying around an ID card you could just get a permanent mark on your body (maybe the forehead, maybe the back of the hand) that proves you're allowed to buy and sell.
I can't take credit for this idea myself, though, it was in this book I read one time called "Revelations".
Homeless
Haven't read the book, but the song by Iron Maiden was pretty sweet.

Kachina26
12-16-2007, 10:40 PM
Rather then running your pie holes on here, why dont you tell this to your elected officals??
Ever written a letter to one of your reps? I have. I'm guessing if you've sent any correspondence to one of your reps, it was a link to some wild eyed conspiracy website. :notam: But most likely, you haven't and wouldn't know how. Thanks for contributing to the discussion though:rolleyes:

Miss Perfect
12-16-2007, 11:42 PM
I kind of get your point.. But if you've done nothing wrong, What are you afraid of?
The jewish did nothing wrong either.... ask them if they should have been afraid.

Cheap Thrills
12-17-2007, 12:07 AM
Why should we stop at gas? Why don't we give the government en even GREATER law enforcement tool by making it so that you have to have a national ID to buy ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING? Simply put, you would need to prove you were a citizen in good standing to engage in any commerce whatsoever.
Actually, instead of carrying around an ID card you could just get a permanent mark on your body (maybe the forehead, maybe the back of the hand) that proves you're allowed to buy and sell.
I can't take credit for this idea myself, though, it was in this book I read one time called "Revelations".
Homeless
Seems I've heard this somewhere before :idea:clicky (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2946099&postcount=25)
But people are so blinded by their own brilliant ideas they completely ignore the obvious truth.
One question everybody seems to be asking is. How do we change the situation we are in? The future is already written. Nothing we do to change the world we live in is going to change the end result. Stop worrying about making the world a better place and worry more about making yourself a better person. Through better people the world can be a better place for what time we have left.
All I can say is what goes around comes around. We Americans are now experiencing the same kind of frustration the Native American Indians had when we came here uninvited and kicked their ass and stole their land. The same frustration the Africans experienced when we went there uninvited and stole their people and enslaved them. Paybacks are a mother fuĉker. And were getting ours now.
I know talking about religion is like opening a big ole can of worms and I'm not posting this to start any type of argument or to tell anyone they're going to hell. It's not my place to judge others just the same as it's not anyones place to judge me. I am posting this in hopes that someone will actually gain a little insight on what could be possibly the biggest mistake of their lives.
Now I'm not one to thump the Bible at people but my friends the time is near. What you choose to do and what you choose accept is your own responsibility. I can not, WILL NOT endorse, accept or condone any type of national ID program or anything that slightly resembles one, besides my SSN which if I had had a choice at the time I would have denied it.
If you want a closer look into the book of Revelations Click Here (http://www.seventh-day.org/Read_NSL.htm) And don't skip any chapters to get the Readers Digest condensed version. Open your mind and get the BIG picture.
While I have a hard time accepting every interpretation in the NSL alot of it will make you rethink what you think you might already know.
Remember the 4th.
Peace be with you my brothers and sisters.
T.

sanger rat
12-17-2007, 12:15 AM
OK, I'm sold. I agree with the idea of a valid DL req'd to buy gasoline. I don't want minors buying gas, I don't want adults that don't have a license to buy gas, and I don't want illegals buying gas either. ;)
Big Brother, Privacy, Conspiracy Theorist's/Theories, I don't care if Uncle Sam knows that I drink Southern Comfort (valid DL req'd) or if I try to run 87 pump gas in a 11:1 engine (should be req'd to show a valid DL).
Ok then you are going to love this. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-20-roads_N.htm

uLtRADeNniS
12-17-2007, 12:21 AM
Revelations is pretty intense. I got goose bumps every time I read through it. With whats happing in current society I truly believe in it.
On another note, I would not wanting the government to have that much control over citizens. Just because theses boarder hoppers wont stop fleeing our country and our government does nothing about it; gives them NO right to monitor the lives so closely of legal citizens. If the US implemented this idea, then what would be next? Food, Utilities?

Charley
12-17-2007, 01:58 AM
It's brilliant Froggy..... I think real crooks will be forced to work harder to hide, but it's definitely a great idea and would likely nab a few... The immigration scenario would be likely the same, but making it harder on them can't hurt....problem is the NAACP would fight to the death... Oh well... I know I would give up some more freedom to clean up our streets, but that's me ;)

Blown 472
12-17-2007, 03:06 AM
Ever written a letter to one of your reps? I have. I'm guessing if you've sent any correspondence to one of your reps, it was a link to some wild eyed conspiracy website. :notam: But most likely, you haven't and wouldn't know how. Thanks for contributing to the discussion though:rolleyes:
I write them all the time. And you had such a great input as well, suprised you are not whining like normal.

haysonj
12-17-2007, 03:21 AM
I kind of get your point.. But if you've done nothing wrong, What are you afraid of?
You know how many people are dead because they did nothing wrong police just had wrong information

WestTNRiverRat
12-17-2007, 04:30 AM
Why stop with gas? How about a National ID/Debit card tied to a biometric database. Cash is old fashioned anyway. It only benefits drug dealers and organized crime. Make every transaction an EBT and you'll stop a lot of bad guys. Any doctor will tell you that half of the colds and other transferable diseases are linked to passing money. Lets face it the stuff is filthy. One step closer to reducing health costs. What about the IRS? you could really downsize that money pit. They know to the dime how much money is deposited into your account. They simply deduct your taxes from your account at the end of the year. Brilliant!!! Now everybody pays their fair share. No more tax collectors. Tired of getting hassled by the panhandlers at the Home Depot? Well unless they have a card swiper tied to a satellite terminal they aren't gonna get any money from you. :D
If you can't earn or spend any money, certainly that would be a deterrent to keep illegals out of the country.
If you are an honest hardworking American you should have no objections to this system. :D

rodnjen
12-17-2007, 08:02 AM
I didn't have time to read the whole thread but what about our responisbility? We need to remove the incentive for them to be here. Part of that is education, part of that is healthcare but the biggest component is jobs. We have virtually no method to keep small and medium sized businesses from hiring illegals.
We need to take some responsibility. Like someone said earlier, finding them isn' the hard part, it's what to do with them. Just look at the number of hispanic families riding around withut seatbelts. You and I would be paying a big fat ticket. Tey don't get pulled over becuase the cops know they will just blow it off.
I'm a democrat thatis pissed off about the immigration situation, but honestly, neither party has the balls to step up. The Republicans would be labeled as unfriendly to the business world and Democrats would not want to hurt anyone's feelings.

dirty old man
12-17-2007, 08:25 AM
No, the demos want to give them all amnesty (again), increase their welfare and so on

hotrod56cars
12-17-2007, 08:48 AM
The jewish did nothing wrong either.... ask them if they should have been afraid.
Wow, comparing Hitler and his regiem to being req'd to show a valid DL to buy gas. The comparison is so close I'm surprised it never acured to me. :jawdrop:

My Man's Sportin' Wood
12-17-2007, 09:01 AM
The jewish did nothing wrong either.... ask them if they should have been afraid.
Thank you. Along with the gypsies and twins, and Catholics (my grandmother's family, she was a young girl).

Jordy
12-17-2007, 09:03 AM
problem is the NAACP would fight to the death...
I'm sure you meant the criminal lovin' ACLU... :idea: :D

hotrod56cars
12-17-2007, 09:06 AM
Ok then you are going to love this. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-20-roads_N.htm
That's pretty interesting. I never thought of how electric/alternate fuel vehicles don't pay gas tax which fixes our roads yet they (probably) do equal "damage" when they drive on our roads. Interesting problem.
Keeping track of the miles driven, seems like it could just as easily hold GPS tracking inside it and then they'd know where I buy my food, where I see movies, and where I buy my illegal drugs (etc...).
Honestly, I just don't care what the gov't knows about me. The gov't already released my info (former military) and low and behold life went on. I've had credit card fruad happen to me at least 10 times (XBPW) and life went on as well.
A friend of mine came here from Yugoslavia and he did it legaly. A couple of weeks ago he held a party because he is now an official US citizen. To see his face at that party and you knew he was a proud American. Somehow I doubt that the illegal Mexican that rear-ended my vehicle with no insurance, no license, had been in our country for more than a decade, doesn't give a rats ass about me or my family, this country, or even the person that wants to give him amnesty in this great country.

My Man's Sportin' Wood
12-17-2007, 09:21 AM
Wow, comparing Hitler and his regiem to being req'd to show a valid DL to buy gas. The comparison is so close I'm surprised it never acured to me. :jawdrop:
The comparison is that it started with small laws that the public passed because they blamed a group for their economic prediciment. The public didn't care because it did't effect them. Eventually, Jews and many other groups needed ID cards or stars in order to conduct business, so that people could see who they were doing business with. Their lives got gradually more and more strict until . . . you know the rest of the story.
However, what FroggyStyle proposed would only originally negatively effect those who had already broken the law. The question is, where would it stop, as many have pointed out. We don't vote for laws most of the time, elected representatives do. They do as they please because we are all ignorant in their eyes. There is not much accountability once a bad or unfair law is passed.
Sorry, but I don't trust my government. Neither did the founding fathers. Here is another gem, compliments of Patrick Henry.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."

Froggystyle
12-17-2007, 09:28 AM
Rather then running your pie holes on here, why dont you tell this to your elected officals??
Trying to get a meeting with Duncan Hunter as we speak. I know a guy...
He might be just the politician ballsy enough to do it. He is running for President too...
I will let you all know how it goes. I am sold on the idea. The only reason you would be against it is if you wish more illegal drivers were on the road.
Forget about even using it as a law enforcement tool. I honestly think the problem would pretty much solve itself.

My Man's Sportin' Wood
12-17-2007, 09:33 AM
I think that you should have to show citizenship to enroll your child in school (at least the child's citizenship, back to the 14th amendment, I know :mad: ) I think you should have to show citizenship or ID to receive public benefits like WIC and foodstamps. Medical is a tougher issue. While I don't want to pay for these illegals to get medical treatment and hospitals are going bankrupt all over, doctors and nurses take the hippocratic oath, and that creates a problem. I think the wall is a good start, and there are lots of people looking for jobs right now, or have prisoners build it. And when the Mexican gov't cries that we don't have a wall on the Canadian border tell them that we aren't being overrun with illegal Canadians sapping our economic resources dry. They come here to shop (or at least they used to :D ). The southern border is the problem. Stuff it Calderon. The only reason they cry is because they want the scum to be able to leave their country.
We need to stop providing them with free education, food , housing and healthcare. You should have citizenship papers to get those. If you are an immigrant, you should have to have a sponsor and if you need those things, your sponsor takes care of you (except for the education). Those are the kinds of laws I would like to see, and those are the kinds of laws that would keep them from coming over. I don't want a law to restrict my freedom.

Jordy
12-17-2007, 09:34 AM
I honestly think the problem would pretty much solve itself.
Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
:idea: :D

Jbb
12-17-2007, 09:39 AM
Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
:idea: :D
:D
https://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45396&stc=1&d=1197913153

Jordy
12-17-2007, 09:41 AM
:D
And it's Byron with the assist. :)

Jbb
12-17-2007, 09:48 AM
And it's Byron with the assist. :)
I got yo back....:D

cdog
12-17-2007, 10:09 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special46/articles/1128biz-sanctions101one.html
:D
What is the law?
Ronald J. Hansen
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 28, 2007 02:40 PM
The sanctions law, known as the Legal Arizona Workers Act, is intended to ensure that no businesses in Arizona knowingly or intentionally hire or employ illegal immigrants.
Beginning Jan. 1, all business owners in Arizona risk losing their state and local licenses if they knowingly or intentionally - the law makes a distinction between "knowingly" and "intentionally" - hire undocumented workers after that date. Licenses can be suspended for 10 days or longer for a first offense and revoked altogether for a second offense.
Employers are required to check the legal status of their new hires using E-Verify, a free online federal program that checks names and identification documents to ensure that new employees are eligible to work.
The law also sharpens the punishment for identity theft, a crime frequently associated with illegal workers.
It is now aggravated identity theft, a felony, to possess the identity information of someone else to seek work or to have such information for three or more people without their consent.
Under the law, it doesn't matter whether the information is for an actual person or a bogus identity.

Froggystyle
12-17-2007, 03:29 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special46/articles/1128biz-sanctions101one.html
:D
What is the law?
Ronald J. Hansen
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 28, 2007 02:40 PM
The sanctions law, known as the Legal Arizona Workers Act, is intended to ensure that no businesses in Arizona knowingly or intentionally hire or employ illegal immigrants.
Beginning Jan. 1, all business owners in Arizona risk losing their state and local licenses if they knowingly or intentionally - the law makes a distinction between "knowingly" and "intentionally" - hire undocumented workers after that date. Licenses can be suspended for 10 days or longer for a first offense and revoked altogether for a second offense.
Employers are required to check the legal status of their new hires using E-Verify, a free online federal program that checks names and identification documents to ensure that new employees are eligible to work.
The law also sharpens the punishment for identity theft, a crime frequently associated with illegal workers.
It is now aggravated identity theft, a felony, to possess the identity information of someone else to seek work or to have such information for three or more people without their consent.
Under the law, it doesn't matter whether the information is for an actual person or a bogus identity.
I applied for this program in California as a volunteer. There is a rub, that I personally don't care for, but it is what it is...
You need to hire them first...
I went looking for a means of determining citizenship with regard to the HUGE number of well-trained workers being made available to me by the reduction in size of other local boat builders. I know for a fact that they hire illegal labor, but want to prove such for myself before determining hireability or not. You can't do that it turns out... They won't let you run the ID of an applicant and let that be a determining factor. You have to hire them based on whether or not they can do the job, and then run the name, SS and ID through the program. If it pops up, allegedly the INS just shows up on Monday and carts them away.
I won't hire illegals, and I won't support vendors who do either. That said, I am not out trying to be a trap for them either.
As a result, I have added a "background investigation" requirement to my hiring procedure and while it isn't free, it does cover me. One nearly made it through, but things weren't adding up on my end, and I hired a PI to check on them. Fake ID, SS being used by multiple people etc... Technically, I could have hired them and would have been covered... Hell, the ID looked real enough to me and matched the SS card, but once you have made a policy like this, I think it is important not to be living in a glass house while chucking rocks...
The ID thing solves this whole problem at a very basic level. You can't really exist here without fuel, and if you aren't legal to drive here, you can't legally buy fuel in my scenario. No INS, no jack-booted thugs showing up to deport people... Just no gas. Simple.

spdfrk
12-17-2007, 04:13 PM
something needs to be done, some geat ideas on the board. anyone afraid of government knowing when, where we buy gas almost everyone uses some kind of card anyways. if they want to know where you are they can find you. if you can count the shingles on you roof with google earth, they can watch you take a leak. get rid of our regeem and get someone to do something about the illegals. ALL AMERICAN AND PROUD

Froggystyle
12-17-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't want to speak too soon here, but don't be suprised if you start seeing this idea in the media...
Something like this could sway the election in '08.
Imagine only legal drivers able to drive... What a concept.

FOXMAN
12-17-2007, 06:23 PM
You know how many people are dead because they did nothing wrong police just had wrong information
The point is to have a valid drivers license to get gas.. I dont think there will be any death squads or mass killings of people who tried to buy without the license..But hopefully a bunch of deportation.

Blown 472
12-17-2007, 07:35 PM
Trying to get a meeting with Duncan Hunter as we speak. I know a guy...
He might be just the politician ballsy enough to do it. He is running for President too...
I will let you all know how it goes. I am sold on the idea. The only reason you would be against it is if you wish more illegal drivers were on the road.
Forget about even using it as a law enforcement tool. I honestly think the problem would pretty much solve itself.
Fantastic, make it happen.

homelessinaz
12-17-2007, 08:25 PM
I don't want to speak too soon here, but don't be suprised if you start seeing this idea in the media...
Something like this could sway the election in '08.
Imagine only legal drivers able to drive... What a concept.
Two words...
ELECTRIC CAR
Homeless

Froggystyle
12-18-2007, 09:32 AM
Two words...
ELECTRIC CAR
Homeless
Two more words... "price point"
I have a guy working for me that just bought a Hybrid. $28K later, he has a car that on the highway will get 65 mpg or something. A full electric car will cost you a ton of money to purchase, and even more every month in electricity bills.
Somehow, I don't think the illegal drivers with $40K cars and electrical docking stations at their cribs are the ones driving around in $50 cars causing me to get uninsured motorist insurance.
I have some guys working for me that are family men, with daughters and sons that are just driving age. They have inexpensive vehicles (comparitively) and are holding the basic liability insurance so they can drive legally and such. I brought this idea up to one of them yesterday and he told me frankly that a serious fear is one of his kids getting hit by someone without insurance. He doesn't have uninsured motorist coverage, so if someone without insurance totals his vehicle... he is out several thousand dollars worth of vehicle, the kid can't go to work and it just added a ton of burden to the already strained family.
Not having uninsured motorists on the roadway is a great idea. Not having illegal drivers on the road is a great idea. If you disagree, feel free to explain to me why it isn't.

homelessinaz
12-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Two more words... "price point"
Obviously your experience with South Americans and Good Old Mexican Know How is limited.
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml
Seriously, this is what it'll cost you to buy a conversion kit ready made and delivered. You need only visit Cuba once to see what necessity can create.
Not having uninsured motorists on the roadway is a great idea. Not having illegal drivers on the road is a great idea. If you disagree, feel free to explain to me why it isn't.
I never said that having uninsured motorists on the road was a good idea. I think your solutions are simple minded and impractical.
Homeless