Wasted rod bearings

[hkunz]

I just tore my 461 down after lost of expensive sounding noise last weekend, and everything looked fine, until I got the pan off.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45745&stc=1&d=1212273648

[hkunz]

Here's what was under the rod caps.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45746&stc=1&d=1212274486

[Mark Sims]

I'll take a guess. To tight on clearances, no oiling mods, too much silicone.I would use a blueprinted oil pump and better pickup also.Olds needs to be setup a little loose for marine use.

[HammerDown]

Question...how much time was on the engine before you heard the funny noise?
Fresh build or a seasoned engine?
Did you change anything, different oil weight, brand, dino, synthetic etc?

[hkunz]

Interesting ideas. The boat has run hard for 5 years, and when the kids had it they didn't do the maintenance. Clearances were good, restrictors in the top end to keep the oil in the bottom, zero-gap rings to help keep the blowby down, oil return mods to allow oil to go back down. Oil pump was from Mondello. I think it was just old age - the motor was originally put together ten years ago, and I did cam, lifters, chain, oil pump, restrictors, rings and bearings five years ago.
Rod bearings 5, 6, 7, & 8 were wiped. Big ends on 7 & 8 are out of round. Oil holes for 7 & 8 have molten/scraped copper inside the crank.

[hkunz]

Question...how much time was on the engine before you heard the funny noise?
Fresh build or a seasoned engine?
Did you change anything, different oil weight, brand, dino, synthetic etc?
Ten years since full rebuild, five years since rering/bearing, lots of hours. Noise wasn't all that funny:D More "expensive"....
Very seasoned engine, I didn't know all that much ten years ago about boat motors, had a car place rebuild it. Five years ago Mondello helped me freshen it as a boat motor, with boat cam, cryo bearings, etc.
Didn't change a thing, I think it was just old. Probably the most time on it a couple of years. We gave it to the kids in 05, they let it languish on the side of the house, we got it back last fall, took it out once to Buena Vista (talk about a misnomer), then off to Havasu for a long distance continuous high speed run.

[hkunz]

If it wasn't for the thread on how much work it is, I'd think about it - dowels, fiberglassing strngers, not to mention a whole new batch of spare parts.
The back side of the bearings reminds me that the crank is 10-10. If it won't go 20-20, is 30-30 possible, or if possible, is it wise? I found a brand new crank, but it is expensive.
Then I need four new/reusable rods. A new oil pump - that one is so full of debris it isn't worth the time to tear it down, I can see the metal particles in it without a teardown.

[TIMINATOR]

We have Olds rods,cranks, and parts. and just a bit of expertise too. Be happy to help. Call during business hrs. TIMM 623-877-8553

[hkunz]

I'm gonna need those services. I'll try to call you today if I get time. The folks that I work for want an honest ten hours in the nine that I'm there.

[hkunz]

Crank is reusable, but two rods are ruined. Found some cores here in town to use. I'm just taking it slow at this point.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

I personally wouldn't use used connecting rods. I replaced 2 out of 8 once and one of the used replacement rods broke. Rods have a cyclelife. Spend about $400 bucks and get a new stronger set. IMHO Pat:idea:

[hkunz]

I thought about that, too. I was thinking of the I beam or H beam rods - I can't remember which is the new kind, but whichever the stock ones aren't. It has a smallish carb on a dual plane manifold wsith an HEI and doesn't usually see anything above 5 grand.
Then again, I know my wife well enough that if I break it again, it is gone.:( She was about ready to donate it to Goodwill this time. The engine rebuild is costing more than anyone would offer for the whole boat when we had it up actively for sale.

[hkunz]

Well, I got the parts in, got the crank ground 20-20, new cam, oil pump, rings, bearings, rods, forged flat-top pistons, bored the holes 0.060" over, restrictors, ready to go together. Did the oil return mods, then polished the lifter valley a bit, and painted it gloss black. Modified the iron heads, too, for oil return. While the paint was drying on the heads i started assembly on the bottom end. That's when i found the main bearings looked funny - a bit small, and the tabs on the wrong sides:mad: Wrong part, not even for an Olds, maybe an SBC instead. So, no jet boat at the river on the 4th of July. We'll just have to use the Advantage the whole time. It's a great boat, but i wanted to play with the jet.
The dinero that was slated for the Edelbrock heads and new braided lines went to a new bottom end, so that stuff won't be on til next year anyway.
I am uncertain why the photos don't show up directly, but here they are.
Oil mods from the machine shop.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45926&stc=1&d=1214685316
Valley oil mods
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45927&stc=1&d=1214685316
Valley oil mod from the other side. They basiclly opened up the return holes, I cleaned up the casting flash from the drain routes into the pan.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45928&stc=1&d=1214685370
I also opend up the front return so oil can flow better out the front of the valley.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45929&stc=1&d=1214685400
Then painted it all gloss black. With the paint, you can really see the "gloss" to the return route polishing.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45930&stc=1&d=1214685400

[hkunz]

Here's the oil mods in the head - cleaning out the return routes, again. I also drilled the oil holes at the ends of the heads out. They get close to the head bolts, but the head bolts are blind, so there's no chance of mixing oil and water if you open the hole into the head bolt hole.
I've seen the ends of the heads drilled and tapped for oil returns, but I didn't want to get into all that on this. Could look kind of wicked, though, if done right.
Most of the crap I saw held back by the casting flash was on the flat surfaces, so those are the ones I polished the casting off of. Not too much point in polishing a vertical surface, except to look cool when the motor is apart :redface:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45931&stc=1&d=1214686208
The new oil drain hose installed on the new 10 quart pan.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45932&stc=1&d=1214686229

[Mark Sims]

Dont forget you need to modify the main bearings to better match the crank oiling holes.Did you chamfer the crank oiling passagages?Open up the #5 main oil passage that the oil pump bolts to? Looks like you have it under control.

[hkunz]

I opened up and polished the passages in the #5 main cap. I didn't drill out the block any further, but there are restrictors in the block, and the crankshaft is chamfered.
Has anyone tapped the block where the oil filter bolts on for remote oil filters? I'm wondering if that would be an effective mod, especially since the oil filter is such a PITA to get to. Once I tapped the block, I could use a dual remote filter setup, AND, put in a MasterLube pre-oiler. So, it would take like four gallons of oil to do an oil change....:(

[hkunz]

I opened up the upper mains for more oil, put the crank in and spun it, all is good. took it all apart to install the rear main seal, and they gave me a rope seal. I thought - "OK, I can make it work", reassembled, and the crank wouldn't turn. Got new neoprene rear main seal, tore it all down again, put in right rear main seal. Now I'm in the middle of putting the rods/pistons/rings in. Had to file fit the rings, that's taking a while, so I have five done last weekend. Ordered the Masterlube unit, which should be here early next week. The oil filter bypass adapter came in, complete with "Not for marine use" on the package. I called Trans-dapt, and they said it was because they didn't get a CG certification. Doh, it's an oil system part. I ported the adapter and the bypass adapter, then washed then and a bunch of other stuff in the dishwasher when the wife was at work.
No pics tonight, maybe this weekend. Besides, hasn't everyone seen rods go on cranks?

[Lucky7]

Check out Realoldspower.com for marine mods that work!
I think that Mark ment for you to open up the oiling holes in the upper bearing shells so that you can get better oil flow. You have open them up to match the holes in the block. Also, one of the big mods for oil return is to drill the heads for an oil return line to the pan. There is no way, even w/the oil returns opened up that enough oil will get back to the pan fast enough when you're on it hard.
On my jet motors I learned to use studs on the mains to keep it together. Mondello (and others) make a main strap kit that goes on the top of the caps to help make the bottom end more solid.
Mondello makes a bolt on plate for remote oil lines that would probably be easier to use than tapping the block, I was always afraid to start messing around in that area.
Good Luck, John.

[hkunz]

I guess I didn't say that all that well. I took my Dremel tool and opened up all the upper main bearing holes, although I didn't open them clear up to the 1/2" that the oil passage is. I chamfered them out to the sides (longwise, so that the grooves were opened up, but not the load bearing surfaces), and undercut the spots where the block was partially covering the holes. I didn't grind on the block, although I did think about it. I already had a lot of parts in it, and didn't want to wash it all over again. No gaskets have really been wasted, should I tear it all down and grind out the block? If I do, I'll also drill and tap the oil sender hole for the Masterlube - that's easier than the whole dual remote oil filter thingie.
I'll just have to pull the cam, pistons, rings, crank, and oil filter. It doesn't look like it will run this summer anyway....:confused:

[hkunz]

I found yesterday that I don't have an oil pump pickup - it was with the parts delivered to the machine shop, but didn't come back.