panther jet questions

[mrossum]

anyone have a comparison curve for panther and the various different berk impellers? am having trouble getting comp cams to make me a cam because they don't have any info on the panther

[jetboatperformance]

Please feel free to call if I can help you your ##s are going to be quite different because of the way the Panther absorbs power IMO Tom 805 466 4719

[Cas]

anyone have a comparison curve for panther and the various different berk impellers? am having trouble getting comp cams to make me a cam because they don't have any info on the panther
here's a chart from Hi-Tech Performance. The Panther impeller is most comparable to the Berk B providing the pump is pretty tight and the impeller vanes are all at stock specs.
http://www.hi-techperformance.com/images/Impeller_Chart.jpg

[Josh@JBP]

Here are some numbers that show a direct comparison between the panther impeller and an American Turbin impeller. These were two tests/boats AT used during the second stage of prototyping the Panther Energizer kit, one test for the panther in stock form and one test with the energizer kit installed. Both test used the same relativly stock engine (325hp 454) and recorded RPMs at 30mph as well as wide open throttle RPMS. The first test boat, the Sleekcraft, had engine tune up issues.
Sleekcraft Twenty-Three
PANTHER JET
RPM SPEED
3925 30.00 mph
4800 39.73 mph
W/ PANTHER JET ENERGIZER KIT installed “AA” impeller
RPM SPEED
3275 30.00 mph
3800 44.10 mph (this engine is really down on power)
Tahiti Eighteen
PANTHER JET
RPM SPEED
3413 30mph
4900 52.35mph
W/ PANTHER JET ENERGIZER KIT installed “A” impeller
RPM SPEED
3013 30mph
4350 59.75
4350 61.75 Turbine Trim installed

[Cas]

here's what Ron actually posted. You can see by the sentences I put in bold that the Panthers that were tested were not anywhere near up to even stock standards.
[QUOTE=Cas;2707885]I just saw that it has a Panther :sqeyes:
here's the ad- he's asking $4,000.00
Panther Energizer Kit
I had been toying with the idea of a Panther jet energizer kit for about two years, since the Jacuzzi YJ and WJ kits have been so successful. When Josh from Jet Boat Performance phoned me up and told me that he had assembled some basically stock parts and had mocked up a kit for the Panther. Josh said he had used parts from our YJ kit, a WJ kit and other American Turbine parts, I said that I was going to do the same thing but just had not had the time. He said he would test it and report the results. The results were good so I commenced to purposely design the kit using solid works 3D software. After designing the kit we machined two kits from billet material. We assembled the two prototypes and then located two boats one was a twenty-three foot Sleekcraft, the other was an eighteen-foot Tahiti so we had the full spectrum of the usable application. Both were stock 325 hp 454’s the Sleek needed motor work, as evidenced by only turning the AA impeller 3800, the distributor cap was literally wired down with bailing wire. To be fair I have to tell you that neither of the Panther jets was fresh. So here are the following results.
Sleekcraft Twenty-Three
PANTHER JET
RPM SPEED
3925 30.00 mph
4800 39.73 mph
W/ PANTHER JET ENERGIZER KIT installed “AA” impeller
RPM SPEED
3275 30.00 mph
3800 44.10 mph (this engine is really down on power)
Tahiti Eighteen
PANTHER JET
RPM SPEED
3413 30mph
4900 52.35mph
W/ PANTHER JET ENERGIZER KIT installed “A” impeller
RPM SPEED
3013 30mph
4350 59.75
4350 61.75 Turbine Trim installed
After the installation of the kits you can “mat” the throttle on both of these boats without slipping the jet. I think the Energizer kit will show even greater performance difference with “hopped up” engines. Also after installing the kit you can now take advantage of all the performance hardware droop snoots etc. The installation takes about eight hours and the skill level is seven on a scale of ten.
Tim it is important to me that mention Josh from Jet Boat Performance as the first one to do this, we just refined it and put it into production.
Thanks, Ron
btw mrossum, if you don't have the Jet Pump Calculator, I think I can send you a copy of the program to fool around with....it's a great tool. I just need your email address

[jetboatperformance]

As always I'm proud of ya Son (Josh) :D !
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Panther%20Prototype/Pantherenergizer.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/jetboatperformance/Panther%20Prototype/PANTHER.jpg

[Josh@JBP]

here's what Ron actually posted. You can see by the sentences I put in bold that the Panthers that were tested were not anywhere near up to even stock standards.
My bad for cropping Rons post. But this:
"To be fair I have to tell you that neither of the Panther jets was fresh." isn't the same as this: "Panthers that were tested were not anywhere near up to even stock standards."
However if anything the tests confirm the pumps were fairly close to standard at WOT RPMs, lets do the math. For the sake of the below examples I'm using 400rpm interval between AT/Berkeley Impeller cuts.
First test 3800rpms with a AA + 1000rpms difference from the Panther test = appoximatly a B impeller + misc 200rpms for getting into the power curve/or slight wear/or both
Second test 4350rpms with an A + 550rpms difference from the Panther test = approximatly a B impeller + misc 150rpms for getting into the power curve/or slight wear/or both
Those two examples should help argue this statment "The Panther impeller is most comparable to the Berk B". If those "Panthers that were tested were not anywhere near up to even stock standards" than many more RPMs would have been reflected in the actual tests.
You really don't have to get so defensive Steve I wasn't trying to miss lead mrossum, nor was I trying to sell him a pump kit. He asked an RPM related question pertaining to impeller differences to better allow both him and Comp Cams select a camshaft for his engine build. ;)

[POEY]

You Guys Seem Very Knowledgable About Panthers. I Have A Tahiti Bubble With A Panther. I Was Out Yesterday Running It A Little Harder Than Normal And Started To Have Heavy Cavitation. It Seemed Like The Impeller Was Kicking In And Out. I Limped It Back To The Ramp, Checked The The Intake, Clear. Called It A Day. Took It Apart Today, Found The Impeller Nut To Be Just Snug Not Tight. I Pulled The Impeller And Everything Looked Good So I Cleaned It Up Loaded The Nut With Red Locktite And Cranked It On Tight. Did I Do The Right Thing?

[Cas]

You really don't have to get so defensive Steve I wasn't trying to miss lead mrossum, nor was I trying to sell him a pump kit. He asked an RPM related question pertaining to impeller differences to better allow both him and Comp Cams select a camshaft for his engine build. ;)
Defensive? LMAO!!! why would I be defensive?
You should really read your own post as far as being defensive. I find it interesting in your choice of words though.
mrossum is asking for cam choice which is referring to horsepower absorption of the impeller not mph. He is in need of numbers in regards to that so Comp Cams can help him better pick a cam for his application. In that regard, your post in regards to the Panther conversion has no bearing whatsoever with his question.
As you know, mph is not a direct indication of hp whereas the rpm can be an excellent indication of HP.
mrossum,
Are you still running the small block or are you swapping over to a big block?
In any case, the computer program I referred to was written based on the power curves of the different sized impellers by each company by those respective companies. The program also has an option for boat size to determine drag at given speeds. The program has been tested against numerous real time numbers to check it for accuracy.
The only place it drops off for the Panther as opposed to the Berk B is above 5200 rpms with an actual 500 hp engine.

[Cas]

You Guys Seem Very Knowledgable About Panthers. I Have A Tahiti Bubble With A Panther. I Was Out Yesterday Running It A Little Harder Than Normal And Started To Have Heavy Cavitation. It Seemed Like The Impeller Was Kicking In And Out. I Limped It Back To The Ramp, Checked The The Intake, Clear. Called It A Day. Took It Apart Today, Found The Impeller Nut To Be Just Snug Not Tight. I Pulled The Impeller And Everything Looked Good So I Cleaned It Up Loaded The Nut With Red Locktite And Cranked It On Tight. Did I Do The Right Thing?
Poey,
There could be a few reasons why the pump cavitated. Since you've checked the obvious, has the pump been taken out of the boat at all?
As far as locktite on the impeller nut, I've never used it and I really wouldn't recommend it.

[jetboatperformance]

You Guys Seem Very Knowledgable About Panthers. I Have A Tahiti Bubble With A Panther. I Was Out Yesterday Running It A Little Harder Than Normal And Started To Have Heavy Cavitation. It Seemed Like The Impeller Was Kicking In And Out. I Limped It Back To The Ramp, Checked The The Intake, Clear. Called It A Day. Took It Apart Today, Found The Impeller Nut To Be Just Snug Not Tight. I Pulled The Impeller And Everything Looked Good So I Cleaned It Up Loaded The Nut With Red Locktite And Cranked It On Tight. Did I Do The Right Thing?
Poey ,if everything "looked OK" sounds like a high likelyhood that maybe you may have "sucked something" up in the jet which may have passed thru or dropped out before you got it on the trailer to inspect it please feel free to Call or PM if Josh or I can help you with further inspections , checks or measurement Thanks Tom @JBP

[mrossum]

mrossum,
Are you still running the small block or are you swapping over to a big block?
In any case, the computer program I referred to was written based on the power curves of the different sized impellers by each company by those respective companies. The program also has an option for boat size to determine drag at given speeds. The program has been tested against numerous real time numbers to check it for accuracy.
The only place it drops off for the Panther as opposed to the Berk B is above 5200 rpms with an actual 500 hp engine.
yes, steve. i am still runnin my small block. it gets great fuel mileage, and i really don't need to go all that fast in a short flat bottom. kinda scares me. thanks for the info. i'm sure it will work out well for me. haven't had a chance to call comp yet, but will get there soon.
the issue of drop off above 5200 will not be an issue for me as i don't think my small block will get that high. i am just lookin for a little more.

[Cas]

I hear ya on that gas mileage thing! One thing about it though, it's way cheaper to run our jet than it was for us when I was playing golf 2 or 3 times a week :D
When you talk to Comp, ask them about their XM270H. It's a cam that's for a mixed flow pump with an A impeller. I put one in a small block a couple of years ago for a friend and it really woke it up big time. I also installed it 4º advanced to bring the peak HP and TQ down in the rpm range.

[mrossum]

I hear ya on that gas mileage thing! One thing about it though, it's way cheaper to run our jet than it was for us when I was playing golf 2 or 3 times a week :D
When you talk to Comp, ask them about their XM270H. It's a cam that's for a mixed flow pump with an A impeller. I put one in a small block a couple of years ago for a friend and it really woke it up big time. I also installed it 4º advanced to bring the peak HP and TQ down in the rpm range.
will do. thanks for the info. their initial recommendation was an extreme marine 262h. looks like a little smaller all around, but works well on the dyno program. will let you know what they say. again, thanks for the info...