Bring Back Classic Hot Boats Full Time

[SkyHarborCowboy]

One thing is very clear. If you got 6,000 requests for a Special Edition Classic Hot Boat Magazine on such short notice it certainly tells you the direction the magazine should take! At the Performance Boats Forum Both V-Drive and Jet Tech forums out pace ANY other forum by a 10 to 1 margin each! Your own forums have a 2 to 1 and 4 to 1 margins. The enthusiats that want to buy your magazines are the guys that work on thier own boats. Just about every boat/car/motorcycle test these days are at a minimum 85% favorable on all aspects on a modern vehicle of any type.
No magazine test is going to sell a guy a $300K boat. They are going to go to the boat shows and take the boats for a spin for themselves. Sure you may make a ton of money on the advertising (which is nothing more then a tax right off for the advertiser in the first place) but how many of your subscribers are actually going to go buy a $300K boat each year? You need to cater to the masses that can and will afford to spend $500 to a couple of grand a year buying a new carb, Intake or whatever for their boat! I can assure you that there are a 100 fold more new people to the sport of boating each year buying a $5,000 boat then there are buying a $300K Deck Boat. I am willing to bet that 50% of your readers cant even afford a house that costs as much as many of the boats that you show case in your magazine! I dont mind seeing them but I would like to see them get as much space as Jet Tech articles are currently getting in your magazine and make the magazine more like a Classic Hot Boats magazine is supposed to be whenever it arrives! Be unique and you will have a viable business plan! Be just like the rest and you become what? Your magazine set the trend and now you have just become apart of the trend and that is not what got you to be a trendsetter back in the beginning! Get back to your roots and your business model with thrive!
Joe
PS. When is my NEW Classic Hot Boat Magazine going to hit my mailbox?

[HDF WATERDOG]

Guess your missing the good ol' days too. Glad to see I'm not alone.

[foxfam312]

Both you guys ROCK.:D :D

[Mandelon]

I think you may be right that the magazine should have more tech stuff.
We have had this discussion here before, but its been a few years. Comparing boat mags with car magazines led us to suggest that ***boat should be like CarCraft or Hot Rod magazine since Powerboat is already more like Road and Track.
For a few months ***boat had an author that did help move the focus to DIY articles and tech info. It was a nice change from the same old articles about Howard or DCB, Lavey or Ultra or Eliminator and how they are all unparelleled in their fit and finish. There is rarely anything less than wonderful said in those reviews.
If they move the focus towards tech and old school boats they might generate a larger readership over time, but does that help them generate ad revenue? I fear that articles about jet boats and old school boats won't help them sell enough ads. Putting out a successful magazine is all about collecting advertising dollars. Sellers of old jet boats aren't buying full page ads, and are there enough guys selling parts to fill all the ad pages?
Plus, you gotta think that a real perk of running the mag is getting to use all those badass new boats, eh? If the builders aren't sending those fancy new boats over for test drives, where's the fun for the test staff?

[SkyHarborCowboy]

All you have to do is see the level of enthusiasm on this message board compared to the rest of the same cookie cutter ones to see where this one is headed. This magazine is trying to be like the others now and that needs to change to get the respect of the people that will buy the magazine if they were to turn it into an Enthusiasts magazine once again. Look at the vendors that spend money on advertising at Hot Rod and/or Car Craft! Summit, Jegs and the rest I am sure would be willing to spend some money advertising in Hot Boat (IF) they knew there was viable market enthusiasts to market to. If this magazine could pull in 1/4 of them they would be better off then they are now! Sooner or later Hot Boat is going to lose market share to Performance Boats if they dont do something drastic VERY SOON!
Joe

[SkyHarborCowboy]

[QUOTE=Mandelon;2968973]If they move the focus towards tech and old school boats they might generate a larger readership over time, but does that help them generate ad revenue?QUOTE]
That is exactly how they generate Ad Revenue! More readers equal more exposure to the advertisers! I can assure you that not a single boat manufacture is selling a $300,000.00 boat because of an ad in a magazine. Sure they may get exposure but that is not making the sale.
Joe

[wowchad]

After ***boat went "mainstream" if you will and lost the tech articles I went searching for another mag and found Family & Performance Boating. It was a great mag that featured a ton of tech stuff for jets as well as I/O's and they even had there share of outboard tech. It was my favorite "new" magazine and they had a good run but unfortunately fell by the wayside last year for whatever reason.
Anyway I'd like to see the old ***boat return too...I may even renew my subscription someday:idea: Chad

[wolf]

One of the problems the new management has at Hot Boat is that they believe that they know what you want more than you know what you want. There was a time just before the meltdown here that they wanted to do away with all the classic style boats. Then they just kind of "cleaned house". Unfortunately they threw out some of the better parts of what Hot Boat was. Not unlike the magazine, they decided that they wanted to take this forum in a different direction. Not as a social forum, but a boating forum. They didn't want things like "Song Chain" in it. Now that's the biggest thread here. Sure there was the drama, but those that had any intelligence just didn't get caught up in it. I actually became a subscriber because of the forum, not a forum member because of the magazine.
Performance Boats cater to both side of the boating community much like Hot Boat use to. I would love for Hot Boat to go back to what they once were. I'd renew my subscription. I'd have two boating magazine much like I have three or four car magazines.
I'm curious to see which direction the magazine goes if they ever get a buyer for it.

[HDF WATERDOG]

I think you may be right that the magazine should have more tech stuff.
We have had this discussion here before, but its been a few years. Comparing boat mags with car magazines led us to suggest that ***boat should be like CarCraft or Hot Rod magazine since Powerboat is already more like Road and Track.
For a few months ***boat had an author that did help move the focus to DIY articles and tech info. It was a nice change from the same old articles about Howard or DCB, Lavey or Ultra or Eliminator and how they are all unparelleled in their fit and finish. There is rarely anything less than wonderful said in those reviews.
If they move the focus towards tech and old school boats they might generate a larger readership over time, but does that help them generate ad revenue? I fear that articles about jet boats and old school boats won't help them sell enough ads. Putting out a successful magazine is all about collecting advertising dollars. Sellers of old jet boats aren't buying full page ads, and are there enough guys selling parts to fill all the ad pages?
Plus, you gotta think that a real perk of running the mag is getting to use all those badass new boats, eh? If the builders aren't sending those fancy new boats over for test drives, where's the fun for the test staff?
Bottom line is the more readers that see any add the better. If every Eliminator owner read a nice DCB article, how many are gonna dump the Elim and go buy the DCB. Compare that to a boater that running around in his father's SleekCraft and is looking to make it faster for just a few buck. He might see the same DCB add and say "I want that boat". Keep in mind all names are used as examples only but I hope the point is made. These advertizers are looking for the guys ready to step up an buy there boat. Hot Boats are not bought off a show room floor. A "Hot" boat is one that somebody has busted there ass on in the garage and spent rent money on. I don't buy Hot Boat to hear what a good time HB staff had on a certain boat. I want to know how to make my boat a "Hot Boat".

[bigkatboat]

Some of us who have been here since the 70's and Chuck Pierce have been begging for this rag to go BACK TO IT'S BOATING ROOTS, without success. YES a magazine/business needs lots of advertising dollars, but without readers, who will pay? (IMO) Ad sales have been done on the "easy road" and not on the 'broad spectrum' of this boating universe. I feel it's very easy to get Nordic boats to buy $20K in ads (they sell $3/500K boats) VS getting Frank and Tina Place to buy $20K ads (they sell $1K jet systems). The magazines (as we know them) have taken to the 'easy money road' instead of the "true boater point of view". "One stop at a boat builder will bring enough ad money to offset all the small boat equipment guys I missed". I started the "High Performance" and the "V-drive" sections of this magazine under Kevin and Chris. They promised a number of things to me and delivered NOTHING! When I wrote for the magazine, I pointed out current advertizers to help questioners in every case. I NEVER (took customers) told anyone to COME TO MY SHOP, but Wilkes still steals customers in that way today. Why do they let him do it? I feel it's unethical and at least just 'sleazy business'. Wilkes does a "tech section" (as part of the magazine staff) while guys like Bergeron and Prime only get to BUY ADVERTIZING, even though they too may be able to answer many more 'tech questions' more accurately, without bias. All of the boat magazines (IMO) have gotten too far away from the REAL BOATER and have actually created a 'sudo-boater' personna. If they wanted to cover a broad spectrum of boating levels then really needed to offer more than 30 pages to do so. Hot Rod Magazine covers both 'homebuilt' and 'professional' built cars with equal coverage, why is it that the boat magazines can't do the same? I feel it's "company direction, lack of knowledge, and lack of interrest" on the part of the people who put this stuff together every month and then expect you to pay money to read about ADVERTIZER'S BS, instead of technical, informative and pleasurable reading. "How to" should not include BUY THIS FROM ME! !!!

[wolf]

Some of us who have been here since the 70's and Chuck Pierce have been begging for this rag to go BACK TO IT'S BOATING ROOTS, without success. YES a magazine/business needs lots of advertising dollars, but without readers, who will pay? (IMO) Ad sales have been done on the "easy road" and not on the 'broad spectrum' of this boating universe. I feel it's very easy to get Nordic boats to buy $20K in ads (they sell $3/500K boats) VS getting Frank and Tina Place to buy $20K ads (they sell $1K jet systems). The magazines (as we know them) have taken to the 'easy money road' instead of the "true boater point of view". "One stop at a boat builder will bring enough ad money to offset all the small boat equipment guys I missed". I started the "High Performance" and the "V-drive" sections of this magazine under Kevin and Chris. They promised a number of things to me and delivered NOTHING! When I wrote for the magazine, I pointed out current advertizers to help questioners in every case. I NEVER (took customers) told anyone to COME TO MY SHOP, but Wilkes still steals customers in that way today. Why do they let him do it? I feel it's unethical and at least just 'sleazy business'. Wilkes does a "tech section" (as part of the magazine staff) while guys like Bergeron and Prime only get to BUY ADVERTIZING, even though they too may be able to answer many more 'tech questions' more accurately, without bias. All of the boat magazines (IMO) have gotten too far away from the REAL BOATER and have actually created a 'sudo-boater' personna. If they wanted to cover a broad spectrum of boating levels then really needed to offer more than 30 pages to do so. Hot Rod Magazine covers both 'homebuilt' and 'professional' built cars with equal coverage, why is it that the boat magazines can't do the same? I feel it's "company direction, lack of knowledge, and lack of interrest" on the part of the people who put this stuff together every month and then expect you to pay money to read about ADVERTIZER'S BS, instead of technical, informative and pleasurable reading. "How to" should not include BUY THIS FROM ME! !!!
Well said. That is much of the reason most have gone to PB. They have a tendency to listen to their readers (all except for Grads!!!).

[bigkatboat]

Sir, the other magazines are also NOT LIKE Hot Rod Magazine in that they do not offer all 'skill levels and cash levels' every month.(no desire to reach the readers) Also, please bring the paddles to restart my heart right after Chris starts LISTENING to any of the readers! HA HA "Slick new format, same old s#!t" "If the boats have not changed, and the boaters have not changed, what changed?" "The people doing a magazine/s changed, and when has that ever changed an entire sport/hobby/business/social group?" I feel magazines should 'seek out trends' and bring that info to the public, not the other way around! I went boating before these magazines were in business, durring, and I'll still go boating after these publications are long gone. They have never 'taught me' how, where, or when to go boating, let alone shown me anything that wasn't 'old news' or FOR SALE at a price. "My example of Hot Rod magazine is a RESOURCE for info on many levels, I see NONE of the popular boating magazines as anything other than BOAT TRADER IN COLOR, and Boat Trader is at least up front about what they offer". I know of MANY people in this business willing to offer help on many levels, they just don't purchase overpriced magazine ads and they don't get heard. "WOLF" thanks for the kind words.

[SkyHarborCowboy]

Awesome Roadster in the Avatar!
The point is that the magazine is a huge disappointment. I am just now getting back to boating after being gone for 15 years or so and subscribed at Firebird before I even opened the three samples I was given. I was severely disappointed when I went to read it for a myriad of reasons. I did notice that they were coming at with a Classic addition what I hope will be a regular 12 issues a year deal.
To me, the magazine was just a giant brochure for the big manufactures. I dont give a rats butt about poker runs that have 225 boats show up at. I dont care how Nordic builds its boats, if I did I would be at their factory having a look. When and advertiser pays for his advertising he is due his space. I figure the articles, editorials and the how to are the space I pay for with either my subscription or newstand price I pay. Why as a consumer should I pay to see how Nordic builds its boats when myself and 99% of its readership isnt going to buy the boat? Make it a generic article on How to restore a boat. You gain more knowledge and you will still get to look at a nice boat when your done reading the article!
Joe

[bigkatboat]

[QUOTE=SkyHarborCowboy;2969006]Awesome Roadster in the Avatar!
Thanks, my dad designed and built that car for the 1957 Indy 500. (that's gasoline alley) It did well until the front U joint gave out. I had hoped that this magazine would become a 'source', that offered 'resources' (advertizers) to readers questions. It has become a real dissapointment in those areas, because it is "big ad driven" and not "reader oriented". Some readers are in the market for $500K boats, but most are looking for: truthfull tech articles, reasonable new boat prices, new industry products, and "I did this myself" type stuff. We will all put up with some outrageous MONSTER boat prices and showing off, but overall we need realistic products and services, that real boaters can afford and purchase. Some of us have been asking for this for over 30 years, so why should anything change now? I know that manufacturers like Mercury have led the charge to very high pricing, and this puts the boat builders in the middle when it comes to overall boat prices. Rebel and use other sources, design other products, fight the 'out of control' climb of retail boat prices. Or just let things go on as they have been going for over 30 years.

[Mandelon]

I agree that it would be a lot more interesting with some detailed tech articles, and in depth pieces on how to do repairs and renovations.
How to fix dings, rips and about a jillion other issues sure should be easy and helpful. Not the glossed over short articles I have seen lately.
Go get those advertisers and tour their facilities....
Every review starts to sound the same after a while. Finding only so many positives and rarely a negative issue with any of the reviewed boats is just so wimpy.

[SkyHarborCowboy]

It would be cool to see more photos of the roadster! I work on a USAC Sprint Car team part time when the travel outside of California.
Basically, I see the magazine as simply a glorified Brochure that I have to pay for!
Rediculous!

[Classic Daycruiser]

The power of classics will live on for ever.

[wolf]

It would be cool to see more photos of the roadster! I work on a USAC Sprint Car team part time when the travel outside of California.
Basically, I see the magazine as simply a glorified Brochure that I have to pay for!
Rediculous!
Do what I did. Stop your subscription!!!! Best way of getting your point across is to stop patronizing.

[bigkatboat]

But this animal needs to EVOLVE to stay alive. Secure a 'reasonably priced printing contract'. Sell 'reasonably priced ads' to all sized shops/companies. FORGET the worthless boat tests, and show the new products as 'what they are' BIG ADS. (we already knew it!) Get (local private unpaid) reporters to attend regattas and boating events all over the country, showing subscribers playing with their boats. Get the 'distibution numbers up' and look at these boats and their owners from a "boater's point of view", not "an accountant's point of view". Cut costs, reduce the color to only a few pages, but cover more races, regattas, and social events all around the country. Throw in a few real tech pages (rely on the advertizers) and "be in the boating world", instead of "looking down at the boating world". "I love the boats, but it's some of the people that screw up all the fun".

[bigkatboat]

Bottom line is the more readers that see any add the better. If every Eliminator owner read a nice DCB article, how many are gonna dump the Elim and go buy the DCB. Compare that to a boater that running around in his father's SleekCraft and is looking to make it faster for just a few buck. He might see the same DCB add and say "I want that boat". Keep in mind all names are used as examples only but I hope the point is made. These advertizers are looking for the guys ready to step up an buy there boat. Hot Boats are not bought off a show room floor. A "Hot" boat is one that somebody has busted there ass on in the garage and spent rent money on. I don't buy Hot Boat to hear what a good time HB staff had on a certain boat. I want to know how to make my boat a "Hot Boat".
Very good points! BUT! For every ONE person who is ready to buy a new boat, there are 20 or more that are ready to 'get some major repair work done'. How many Hot Boat Builders? How many Hot Boat repair shops???? How many jet pumps are being rebuilt this winter? How many I/O drives, V-drives? MOTORS!!! I feel that A REAL BOATERS PUBLICATION would already be working with "Mom & Pop Marine" as a resource for their readers. When 'Magic Boats' reduces it's ad spending, any magazine business person would have already planned to 'upgrade' the ads for it's smaller partners, and 'upsell' if possable. This is how you end up with a 5 page magazine! (lack of planing) If one boat builder spends $2K a month, couldn't 5 smaller shops 'cover that gap' by purchasing $400 ads? Then I must ask, why didn't the magazine sales staff ALREADY have those 5 other $400 ads? I know why, "the easy way out". I feel that this thing needs to "scratch and dig" to survive. It's going to take smart boaters, (to revive this thing) not smart desk driving bigshots. "Might be wrong, don't think so".

[wolf]

Take note that thus far no one from Hot Boat Magazine has even commented on this subject. Goes to show how interested they are in read comments.
Good bad or indifferent, at least the people from Performance Boats will comment on these types of threads. You may or may not like their comments, but at least they're communicating with their readers/forum members.

[SkyHarborCowboy]

What is worse then that is that I wrote them a very thorough letter right after the Finals complaining about the quality of the photos in the magazine and the content and I have yet to hear back from them! I wrote to everyone listed as being apart of the magazine.
This is actually funny, their mast head says, "The only performance boating magazine that matters". I guess they should also include, "The only opinion that matters, is our own"!
I know this thread hasnt received the most posts because we are probably the only ones on the forum but no one has countered any of our opinions yet!
Joe

[SkyHarborCowboy]

What is worse then that is that I wrote them a very thorough letter right after the Finals complaining about the quality of the photos in the magazine and the content and I have yet to hear back from them! I wrote to everyone listed as being apart of the magazine.
Joe
Here is the letter:
From: Joe Godoy <hdyfmoy@yahoo.com>
Date: November 22, 2008 2:20:44 PM PST
I want to make a comment about the photo quality of the magazine. I just picked up the May, June and August 2008 issues at Firebird Raceway yesterday during the IHBA races there. I am planning on re-subscribing as I have been out of boating for about 10 years now but I have to say that the photo quality in the magazine is very poor compared to the way it was back then. Here are the reasons why:
The photos are too dark in the magazine (I don't know if it is a magazine production error and/or photography issues). If you compare the photos to any Motocross Magazine you can clearly see the differences. Grab an old Hot Boat magazine and you can see the difference. It maybe that film photography is still better then digital, I don't know, but the photos in the magazine just plain SUCK!
May 2008
The lighting in the photos is very amateurish. For example, page 28 5/08 top photo you are trying to show off the control areas of the boat but the WHOLE gauge panel is in the shade! Turn the boat around to allow the setting sun to light the shot! Page 44 top left photo is so dark it is hard to make out detail. Page 45 what in the heck are to two vertical photos at the bottom of the page supposed to show? The whole article is full of photos taken in a shaded shop pointing out to a brightly lit background! The whole magazine is like this!
June 2008
What is up with the lighting on pages 26/27, 36/37? It is going to take me WAY too long to highlight each and every page so I give up!
I think you get the picture (pun intended) on what I am trying to say. I have no clue what the issue is but the lighting/exposure/composition of just about every photo in the magazine is a joke, all of the photos LOOK like they were taken by the same amateur photographer and edited by the legal secretary instead of a photo editor! I hope you guys can address those issues because the photography in the past was 25% of why you have Hot Boat Magazine in your hands. The articles are the other 75% but if you dont have good photos to accentuate the articles you might as well buy a shop manual!
I dont know if you have any other complaints but something needs to be addressed as Professionals I am sure that you can see what I am talking about yourselves!
Sincerely,
Joseph Godoy

[twocents]

These are all thoughtful and insightful comments by passionate "hot boaters." Unfortunately, I think it's just an exercise in futility at this point. Don't spend too much time waiting by your mailbox for the Hot Boat Classics or the new January or February, etc., etc., etc., issues to arrive.

[HDF WATERDOG]

Very good points! BUT! For every ONE person who is ready to buy a new boat, there are 20 or more that are ready to 'get some major repair work done'. How many Hot Boat Builders? How many Hot Boat repair shops???? How many jet pumps are being rebuilt this winter? How many I/O drives, V-drives? MOTORS!!! I feel that A REAL BOATERS PUBLICATION would already be working with "Mom & Pop Marine" as a resource for their readers. When 'Magic Boats' reduces it's ad spending, any magazine business person would have already planned to 'upgrade' the ads for it's smaller partners, and 'upsell' if possable. This is how you end up with a 5 page magazine! (lack of planing) If one boat builder spends $2K a month, couldn't 5 smaller shops 'cover that gap' by purchasing $400 ads? Then I must ask, why didn't the magazine sales staff ALREADY have those 5 other $400 ads? I know why, "the easy way out". I feel that this thing needs to "scratch and dig" to survive. It's going to take smart boaters, (to revive this thing) not smart desk driving bigshots. "Might be wrong, don't think so".
Right again. Just trying to keep the post short. Another area that gets ignored is product testing. Lots of neat stuff out there that many don't or won't buy until they hear it "offically" works as advertised. And of course there is the othe side too. Lots of absolute crap out there too. If HB was to just come out and say it doesn't work as advertised, they might lose a advertiser, but it would / could save the readers a bundle.

[HDF WATERDOG]

These are all thoughtful and insightful comments by passionate "hot boaters." Unfortunately, I think it's just an exercise in futility at this point. Don't spend too much time waiting by your mailbox for the Hot Boat Classics or the new January or February, etc., etc., etc., issues to arrive.
I think they're pretty much history too.

[bigkatboat]

Doa!

[Mandelon]

I wonder how much $$$$ got pissed away.....:rolleyes:
How much do ad reps get paid? :confused:

[Throttle]

Don't spend too much time waiting by your mailbox for the Hot Boat Classics or the new January or February, etc., etc., etc., issues to arrive.
you must be thinking the same thing I'm thinking...

[nautibouy70]

One thing is very clear. If you got 6,000 requests for a Special Edition Classic Hot Boat Magazine on such short notice it certainly tells you the direction the magazine should take! At the Performance Boats Forum Both V-Drive and Jet Tech forums out pace ANY other forum by a 10 to 1 margin each! Your own forums have a 2 to 1 and 4 to 1 margins. The enthusiats that want to buy your magazines are the guys that work on thier own boats. Just about every boat/car/motorcycle test these days are at a minimum 85% favorable on all aspects on a modern vehicle of any type.
No magazine test is going to sell a guy a $300K boat. They are going to go to the boat shows and take the boats for a spin for themselves. Sure you may make a ton of money on the advertising (which is nothing more then a tax right off for the advertiser in the first place) but how many of your subscribers are actually going to go buy a $300K boat each year? You need to cater to the masses that can and will afford to spend $500 to a couple of grand a year buying a new carb, Intake or whatever for their boat! I can assure you that there are a 100 fold more new people to the sport of boating each year buying a $5,000 boat then there are buying a $300K Deck Boat. I am willing to bet that 50% of your readers cant even afford a house that costs as much as many of the boats that you show case in your magazine! I dont mind seeing them but I would like to see them get as much space as Jet Tech articles are currently getting in your magazine and make the magazine more like a Classic Hot Boats magazine is supposed to be whenever it arrives! Be unique and you will have a viable business plan! Be just like the rest and you become what? Your magazine set the trend and now you have just become apart of the trend and that is not what got you to be a trendsetter back in the beginning! Get back to your roots and your business model with thrive!
Joe
PS. When is my NEW Classic Hot Boat Magazine going to hit my mailbox?
**YOU TELL EM COWBOY!**

[farmo83]

I've been boating all my life and have enjoyed hot boat as much. As of late though I could not be more disinterested in the magazine though. Which I guess is a good thing as I wont be getting the magaizines I resubscribed late last year for. While I do enjoy seeing a few of the high high end boats, I drive a 1977 CVX 20 Jet and would be much more interested in products, tech articles that pertain to my boat or the "old school" boats. Honestly If I was given the option I would just subscribe to the classics issue.

[H20MOFO]

You have my vote(for the classics issue):eek: I just let my subscription laps(sp?) a few months ago. I gave up. Before they downed ***boat the mag took a turn, everyone on here had a cow. Did they listen then, no....I doubt they will start to listen now.:confused:

[Mandelon]

So if the magazine's ready....does anybody want to fund the printing?

[SkyHarborCowboy]

So if the magazine's ready....does anybody want to fund the printing?
To me, I think it was already funded! Six thousand requests (orders?) at $10 a pop is $60, 000.00 not to mention that they had a both at Firebird taking subscription orders (mine included) so it seems that they Made Off with some money!
I guess we all got Bernied!
Joe

[HDF WATERDOG]

To me, I think it was already funded! Six thousand requests (orders?) at $10 a pop is $60, 000.00 not to mention that they had a both at Firebird taking subscription orders (mine included) so it seems that they Made Off with some money!
I guess we all got Bernied!
Joe
I think it all went to salaries and X-Mas bonus's.

[HalletDave]

I think it all went to salaries and X-Mas bonus's.
Golden Parachutes :idea:

[HDF WATERDOG]

"Golden Parachutes", is that a new type of anchor.

[Wet Dream]

Advertizing dollars go VERY far in determining how a magazine directs it's viewpoint to the reader when it comes to full page ads.
Mags like this, right now, are little more than infomercials on paper.