Eliminator Daytona vs. CP19 vs. Semi V

[Jet City]

I plan on upgrading boats in the near future and have been exploring different hull designs as options. I have read the search history and can't find a thread that compares a 19' and or 21' Eliminator Daytona to a 19' gullwing (CP lake lay-up) and a 18'-19' semi V (Rogers, Southwind,Bahner,etc.). How do these boats differ in handling chop, turning charicteristics, hull efficiency, etc. The boat will only be used as a lake/river Hot-Rod, and my speed goal will be in the 80 mph range. The other question I have is would a 21' Eliminator Daytona fit in my 9'(door)x26'(deep) garage? I have owned semi V's and am aware of how they handle, I did get a brief ride in a CP-19 (impressive from what I saw) and I've never been in the Daytona at all. Any thoughts on the strengths and weeknesses of these hulls would be appriciated.

[F N Fast]

I have a 21' Daytona Jet. Not sure I can help you compare this to a semi V hull other than you not comparing apples to apples. I had a 21' semi V hull prior to this and the difference in ride is night and day. The semi V will beat you up alot more in chop vs. the tunnel kinda glides over it.
21' vs. 18 or 19' Huge differences in speed. The engine in my 21' pictured moved a 18' Eliminator Edge (Same hull design as the Daytona) over 105 MPH, in the 21' - high 80's low 90's. Difference here obviously due to weight, but the 21' can handle much more chop and actully seat 4 or 5 people.
Best thing you can do is try and get some rides in these hulls you want to try out.
The driver may not know the difference unless they have actually tried them. I didn't until I got the Daytona. Not going back to a v hull any day soon, at least for a lake/river boat anyway. Besides same engine in the semi V was 18 MPH slower.
http://www.jetheaven.us/photopost/data/500/12dsc01295-med.jpg
[ September 28, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: F N Fast ]

[F N Fast]

Oh and as far as fitting in the garage goes, my 21' on the trailer is 26.6’ from tongue to the diverter. I can remove the tongue from the trailer making it 25.3' Still little tight, but doable.
My pump could still be setback another 8 to 10”, so sizes and trailers will vary.
Hope this helps.

[Jet City]

Thanks F N Fast, thats exactly the kind of info I was after. I did read the thread about 19 vs. 21 Eliminator, its a tough call for my purposes, I hate to sacrifice the speed, but the bigger interior and faster speeds in chop would be very welcome. One other question, I read a post where somebody eluded to the Daytona's not being very good (or mabe not as good as gullwing/semi V) in cornering, any thoughts on this. BTW, thats a damn sharp boat there. The Daytona's certainly do have an exotic look IMO.

[wrightnow]

JCR, I have a 18 CP Gullwing and love it, the daytona's do right better in the rough water once they pack some air to float over (requiring some speed). I dont feel they turn near as well as a CP or rogers and do require more HP to push alone.
The roger also ride very nice, handle and turn great and will perform very well when HP allied.
The CP's I thing of the three ride the worse, not bad but they dont handle the chop as well as the other two. But handling and turning I would say above the daytona's but below the rogers. As for how much HP it take to push it, most of the time with the same HP the CP will be qiucker and faster.
But I would say get a ride in all three and get a feel for what you like.
Good luck
Mark
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370cp.jpg

[Cs19]

My opinons on these boats:
21 daytona: awesome boats great for rough water, pain in the ass to store,tow and very expensive to get to go even 80.They are very roomy, and can seat lots of people in comfort, and will probably do just fine on havasu on the weekends, unlike the other boats you mentioned.Very safe at high speeds.
19 daytona: Another great boat, the hull has been proven to run well and still holds records to this day. Will be pretty easy to get 80 mph out of that tunnell and you will do it safley.The common hot rod jet problem is motors quitting at high speeds and this hull handles that problem better than others.It has small area for seating (4 max) and low freeboard, so it will not be the best choice for rough waters, but it should handle small/medium chop well once up on plane.Not the best for turning
Gullwings: killer river racers.They come in an 18 and a 19. I perfer the 18 for a hot rod, 19 is the call for a 4 seater ski boat, you can even get a bow rider 19. They turn great and handle chop decent.Some guys run these gullwings in the 120 mph range and are not having any problems.I dont think they are the safest boats over 90 but they sure are quick.They are not that easy to find used and in good shape, but if you look you can find one.
Rogers: i have never been a v-bottom fan, although i saw cyclones run and it looked like a fun river boat, they have potential but i do not know much about them. I think most of the ones for sale will be fairly old.I may be wrong.80 mph should be easily attainable in one like he has.I dont know how safe they are,hopefully someone else will know more.
Southwind/placecraft: the only southwind i am familiar with is the 19 tunnell. Great lake boats, look bitchen and run 80 easily. The tunnels are not very large and they dont free up very easily unless you have big power in it. Ours runs 80+ for sure and it takes 600 horse to get there.Very safe and practical on the river. They turn well and seat 4 people max.I can not comment on the v bottom southwind.(if there is one)
Hope this helps..Keep the safety thing in mind when you choose a boat. good luck

[cyclone]

I agree with what everyone has already said. I think the easiest boats to make run fast would be either the 18 CP or 18 Rogers or the 19' versions of either boat if maximum seating area is of importance.
I dig the daytona's but the 19' doesnt have enough room for me and the 21 seems to require quite a bit of HP to run over 80mph. Both are awesome boats.
The only hands on experience i've had is with the 18 and 19' Rogers bonneville v-bottom hulls. Both will turn on a dime and handle lots of horsepower. I've had zero problems with them hooking or trying to pitch me out of the boat at high speeds either. In fact i had to shut my 19' down in a hurry while running over 90mph at CBBB and the boat went dead straight. my 2 cents...

[Jet City]

Thanks for the input guys, that really helps me to understand the pros and cons of each of these boats. Anyone of these would be a dramatic improvement over my current boat, which is why I think I'm money ahead to upgrade hulls now, rather than after I've found my hulls limits. Someone mentioned safety, which is also a major concearn (my wife is co-pilot), it makes sense to go with a hull that is capable of (safely) running speeds much higher than I intend. I'm glad I got a viewpoint from owners of each boat in question, thanks again guys-
Scott

[572Daytona]

I made the switch from an 18' semi-v to a 21' Daytona a few years back and I love it. I'm running 90 with a little over 600HP so 80 should be attainable with a healthy big block. My 18 would only do 65 so it is hard to compare the high speed handling but the 21 feels very safe to me, never feeling like it it is getting too loose and going to blow over or roll to the side at the speeds I'm running. At 75+ mph it doesn't turn too well, but I think that is pretty much true of most cats once they starts packing air. I have no problems with turning at speeds less than that, I manuever it around my dock all the time without problems.
As for fitting in the garage, the 9' door is not problem, my trailer is only about 8'. The 26 depth may be an issue though, I just measured mine and the boat is about 21.5', and the pump is setback about anoher 3' so I'm up to about 24.5' without the trailer. You would definitely need a removable or foldable tongue on the trailer (or a hole in the back of the garage for the pump to stick out :) )

[HammerDown]

I'm with 572Daytona...once these things start packing air...WOW. And the ride in these hulls even at cruse speed in the rough is very, very nice...well at least from what I see when my friends are next to me with there shallow V-Hulls (getting there fillings knocked out) eek! :p !
If you can find a 21 Daytona or even a 21 Liberator...buy it!
[ September 29, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: HammerDown ]

[Jet City]

572Daytona, thanks for the measurements, I kinda figured it would be a squeze. I guess making the removable tounge happen isn't the end of the world so long as it fits thru the 9' door. 90 mph with a little over 600 hp seems quite good to me, I figured I'd need around 575 hp to reach 80 with an 18' semi-V. What impellor cut and rpm are you turning at that speed?

[572Daytona]

JCR, I'm spinning an AA at just under 5400rpm. There is a lot more to making the 21 Daytona's run than posting big numbers on the dyno. Pump, rideplate, shoe, intake and bottom work can all make a big difference. Since they are heavy boats I also think you are better off with a bigger CI motor that can make the HP at a lower rpm so you can turn a bigger impeller that is more efficient rather than using a smaller higher revving engine. An 18' semiV is definitely a more efficient hull, especially at slower speeds but as you start going faster and get the lift from the cat it get's a lot closer. The biggest issue with the 21' Daytona's is that they are pricey. If you price a new one you are going to find out fast that Eliminator thinks they are made of gold. I think the real issue is that Eliminator would rather spend their time and efforts making bigger boats but for a big enough profit they won't say no to the 21. You should also look at similar 21's made by Edge and Liberator as they should be more price competitive.
I bought mine used but they can be pretty hard to come by on the used market and a lot of times they won't have a setback pump or a radiused keel. But as Hammer can attest to, that is nothing that can be changed with a little bit of work. I'm saving my pennies for a blower someday, either a whipple or a PSI like FNFast has (that is sweet looking). It's nice knowing that you've got a hull that can handle any HP that you can throw at it.

[wrightnow]

572 what is your motor make up? To turn an 'AA' at 5400 rpm with 600hp is great. I was spinning 5600rpm with an 'B' with around 650hp just wondering.....thanks
Mark

[565edge]

I beleive he has a 4.5" strokeX4.5" bore 572 single carb low compression stump puller.He had his dyno sheets on here before?

[Jet City]

Thanks HD, a nice ride is definately a bonus, I'm not nearly as tough as I used to be.
572Daytona, sounds like you have a really nice combo there, I can apppriciate what your saying about pump set-up, and building powertrain that compliments the hull. As to the pricing, I cannot justify (or afford for that matter) a new Daytona, I have been pricing out all of the mentioned boats for a while, neither the Daytona, CP-19 or the Rogers are plentiful on the used market, but they do pop up from time to time. I have seen some nice turn-key 21' Daytona's in the $13-15K range recently, this is more what I had in mind for an admission price, the ones in this price range seem to be early to mid 80's models. I might even be open to a less engine boat when the time comes (I've noticed many of the CP's are offered with or w/o engine).

[Gamer]

I also agree with the comments that 572Daytona made about the ride and how it feels extremely smooth and safe at high speeds. I also own a 21" Daytona and I'm willing to give up some speed for the all the comforts of the boat (interior room/tank sizes and more freeboard).
-Allen
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02984-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02990-med.jpg

[wrightnow]

565edge:
I beleive he has a 4.5" strokeX4.5" bore 572 single carb low compression stump puller.He had his dyno sheets on here before? Thanks edge..

[wrightnow]

As much as I love my CP, I would buy a 21 daytona for a river/lake cruiser and I was looking to run about 80mph.
Mark

[stump]

Tim Speer at Pro Boat in Georgia has the youngblood pickelfork molds 20 1/2 ft ,He told me he modified and opened up the cockpit for more room ,added a splash rail and a handrail on the top of the hull to make it a better lake boat,He said brand new hull ,white, with possibly fuel tanks,Price about 6500 with color it would be more. and i could rig it myself. He also has the mantra molds and is making them also around 5000/w pump,at least i think that is what he said ,dont quote me .. It didnt sound too bad .

[djdtpr]

If you are looking for comfort and handling you definately dont want to look at a placecraft.Mine doesnt turn to good,it tends to cavatate if you turn it to sharp and it doesnt really take rough water to well either it makes you a little sick when you hit a wake and watch the bow flex everywhere.but if you are putting big power in something and want a safe boat to do it in get a placecraft.I would say bang for your buck is in a gullwing.
just my 02!

[TRG]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45rearview-med.JPG
ive only owned rogers' but have riden in quite a few diff. hulls in the same 18-20' range and have found that for what i like in a boat, the 18-19 rogers bonneville or the 18-19 gullwing is about the safest feeling boat to drive or ride(if my wife is driving!!!) in!!! as for the daytona's, dont get me wrong,... beautiful boats ,but the ride height is not comfortable to me or my family so that is my "BUCK-O-FIVE"!!!

[F N Fast]

So after reading all this info, it's still likely hard to make up your mind. I only got the Daytona, because a deal came up that I couldn't refuse. People were lining up in case I did. Personally I wouldn't buy a new one. Way too much coin new.
Very true what has been said about high speed steering. Takes quite a bit of english to get her to turn when all that air is under the hull. Almost feels that it's not gonna turn, Otherwise corners flat like your on rails. Feels like a Porsche.
Pros: Awesome looks, ride, passenger space, handling. It's a head turner - (I'm sure the PSI helps in that dept too).
Cons: Wish it moved better for the HP I'm running. Pricy unless you find a deal (they are out there), Lots of effort to manuver at high speeds. Doesn't fit in my garage.
So really haven't seen a clear answer to what's the best of all worlds in jets. (What ever you run is the best for you, jet or otherwise)

[1tricky1]

Gamer:
I also agree with the comments that 572Daytona made about the ride and how it feels extremely smooth and safe at high speeds. I also own a 21" Daytona and I'm willing to give up some speed for the all the comforts of the boat (interior room/tank sizes and more freeboard).
-Allen
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02984-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02990-med.jpg That boat looks bad ass!!! :D ....What's your estimated HP? and what's the pump got?

[Gamer]

Thanks 1Tricky1..
It made 885@6100 on the dyno on pump gas. It's got a dominator pump with A or AA mag impeller. I haven't got into the pump yet so I dont know exactly what's in it :confused:
Allen
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02989-med.jpg

[MAXIMUS]

Gamer:
Thanks 1Tricky1..
It made 885@6100 on the dyno on pump gas. It's got a dominator pump with A or AA mag impeller. I haven't got into the pump yet so I dont know exactly what's in it :confused:
Allen
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02989-med.jpg That is a beautiful boat! I love those colors... Any idea on top speed? Also what size motor & psi on blower? :)

[Jet City]

Thanks again for the input, very informative.
FN Fast, Your right, there is no clear winner, each one of these hulls has its advantages and disadvantages, but I now have a better understanding of what they are. I would say I have at least narrowed the field down to CP-19, 21' Daytona and Rogers Bonneville TR 19 due to the slightly bigger interiors, I regard these boats as the best of the best in the jet world. I am targeting next spring for purchase, the right deal on any one of these could certainly be the determining factor.
Stump, thanks for the info, I'm not opposed to like models of these boats, Youngblood, Liberator, etc. If a new one could be had within the budget, that would be nice.
Gamer, very nice boat, I've never seen one with that color combo, its really striking.
Toddnjuzz, you and Cyclone probably have the two nicest Rogers on the planet, I just learned you did the Gel on both of them, very nicely done!

[TUNNEL MAN]

I have had a couple v bottoms boats but now I have a 19 daytona I will never buy another v bottom.tunnels are the only way to go just my 2cents :)

[Gamer]

Thanks for the comments guys. I haven't seen another color scheme like the one I have. It must be a rare one :confused:
Maximus here are some of the motor specs
540 -Dart block
355 -Dart CNC Ported heads
a small hydraulic roller cam
8-71 Blowershop
4% overdriven 5 psi
18% overdriven only made 9 psi
950rs - Demon boost reference carbs
The motor seems to flow too good for the blower size. I'm going to step-up the blower next season with an intercooled 12-71 or 14-71 and change the carb venturies to 1000+ cfm. I'm looking for the cool 1000+hp on pump gas.
I haven't done the pump yet but I've gps 86.3 mph with 4 guys in seat with 40+ gallons of gas in the tanks with the 5psi pulley.
Allen
Here are some more pics
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02985-med.jpg
another motor shot
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1065DSC02987-med.jpg

[MAXIMUS]

Before you go & step up your blower you might try switching to some large dominator carbs. Sounds like you might be cavating the blower with too small of venturi inlets! The bigger the better! :) Again very nice boat!

[Dave C]

I owned both a 19 Bahner semi V and a 21 Daytona.
Hands down the Daytona is the winner. If you went for a ride in a 21 Daytona you would agree.
I even swapped the 502 motor I had in the 19 to the 21 and that heavy-ass daytona went faster than the much lighter 19.
Its true it doesn't turn as well but who cares. the 21 is so much fun because you can go fast in rougher water, even more so than a Mod V. Plus you can seat 5 adults.
One thing about tunnels, if you don't put a bigger motor in it then don't bother.
I would recommend that you put a blower motor in the 21 Daytona if you can swing it.
BTW: A 21 Daytona w/an I/O would be nice. Just as fast with a lot less HP.
Good luck.
[ October 03, 2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Dave C ]

[likeFATHERlikeSON3]

19' daytona has always been my first coice. after owning one it still is. Not a family boat though. turns heads and hauls ass

[77468sleekcraft]

hey jet city we should hook up and talk boats or what ever... :D

[malcolm]

Hey Chris, where ya been all summer? I was hoping I could've seen your 468 in action. :D

[77468sleekcraft]

HEY WHATS UP MALCOLM,JUST BEEN WORKING AND TRYING TO BUILD A NEW DECK AT THE CABIN,SO IF YOU WANT THIS WEEKEND WE ARE GOING UP THERE SO IF YOU WANT TO COME JUST SAY THE WORD.MAYBE WE CAN GET SOME OTHER BOATS UP THERE TOO... :D

[malcolm]

Chris, check you private messages.
Scott, are you still stuck between the three different hulls? I guess it will depend on what's around in the spring, huh!

[Jet City]

Malcolm, I've not decided yet, but your right, price and availability will certainly be a factor. BTW did you ever get your headers done and try them out?
Chris, I'd love to talk boats sometime. Seems there is a bit of a shortage of jet guys here in the N/W.

[malcolm]

Scott, no headers yet, prob'ly next season. Working in the house still, finally got all the wood down in the kitchen. :)

[Vern S]

I'm game for a little NW boating action. Moses Lake has been awesome the last few weeks.
Vern

[malcolm]

How much longer do you think the weather will hold out over there? I think it's done on this side.

[Vern S]

just about the time I think it's done it warms up again. Most every day for the last 2 weeks has been in the 80's. Forcast calls for mid 60's the middle of the week. It may be over.

[77468sleekcraft]

hey vern how about coming over to blue lake this weekend..... :D

[Vern S]

If the weather is decent I would be interested in coming over on Saturday.

[77468sleekcraft]

COOL MY PROPERTY IS RIGHT NEXT TO RIM ROCK COVE... SO COME ON OVER IF YOU CAN.. :D