I need some opinons here on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I asked a few questions on realoldspower.com and this is what was said.
The most important thing is to have a competent machinist do the work. I like my main and rod bearing bores on the tight side of tolerances, and I run about 0.0025 clearance on the rods and mains. I use the cam bearing oil restrictors, and not restricted pushrods. The problem with restricted pushrods is they cut oil flow enough to be hard on valve springs. The ARP fasteners should do fine, although I prefer studs to bolts on the mains. You cannot run fast enough to GIVE me hypereutectic pistons, I despise them. I would much rather run the TRW L2323F. The new ones are coated on the skirts to prevent scuffing. I loosen the pin fit in the pistons up about 0.0005", and I run the pistons with about 0.001" more clearance in a boat because a boat sees high RPM longer, and the block stays cooler. You could also use the new SRP forgings, they are not coated (it's an option) but you don't have to pin fit them, the pin fitting is done. They allow you to run thinner rings, but use Speed Pro rings and not JE rings. Needless to say it should be honed with deck plates. I'd finish it with 400 stones, and then with plateau brushes. If he can't hold the tolerances and doesn't know about plateau brushes and tight rod and main bores, take it else where. Use a moly file fit ring, and use the loose gap setting, with the second ring gap slightly larger than the top. I prefer the half or 3/4 groove main bearings and crossdriiling the crank, especially for a boat.
I've found that you must check the Melling HV pumps VERY closely. They most often have too much end clearance (I run mine at no more than 0.002" total end clearance), and many of them have too much side clearance. If the end clearance is too much, you can use a stone and solvent to tighten the end clearance, but if the pump has more than 0.003" side clearance, send it back and don't waste your time.
Got a good adjustable valvetrain and good intake and exhaust setup? How much cam? Thats where the RPM ability will come from.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Someone else said this.
My setups for Jet boat are similiar to Rocketsled's except I prefer more main clearance .0035"-.0037". Rods I set to .0025" - .0030" I run my pins no less than .0008" no more than .001" on Olds Jet boat. I can't stand KB pistons either. If your going to use bricks then use bricks that last. L2323F pistons at .006"-.007" with Speed Pro rings. I prefer JE's or anything lighter. Best thing you can do for the engine, but i've built a million of the standard 455 engines with regular L2323's that last, just keep the rev's below 5000 and you should be fine and keep an eye on the water control valve if you run wet headers such as Bassets. I've had more customers ruin good engines because of them stupid cheap ass water control valves.
For the oiling system use the Milodon pump and shim the spring about .350" Make sure the pickup is .400" off the bottom of the pan. If your 10qt pan has a solid tray built in remove it and replace with a uni-directional screen from Moroso the full length of the pan or put it on top of the tray if there is room (must be space between tray and screen). Also if your pan is the one with a trap door halfway in the pan then only fill the pan with 8 qts. If it does not have a trap door, install one. I believe you can get a kit from Moroso or one of the circle track suppliers such as Speedway Engineering. You don't need 10qts of oil in the pan. All it does is slosh up into the rotating assembly. Don't listen to Mondildo. He runs 10qt pans because he runs the clearances so tight he needs the extra oil to keep everything cool.
Every thing else Rocketsled says I agree with especially the loose rings

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

This is another opinion.
I don't care much for the cam either. For the RPM you want to run, especially with the intake and exhaust you have, it's about 6 degrees short of duration on the intake, and about 8 degrees short on the exhaust. Nevermind the fact that it's about 0.060" short of lift.
Two 450 carbs will probably be better for over all use, but 600s or 650s will do good enough. You need excellent valvetrain to do what you're doing, meaning stainless valves (2.07 and 1.71), screw in studs, guideplates, and roller rockers. Your heads could probably use some port work if you really want it to run. The K heads are okay, but I really prefer C heads with good seats in them.
If you siezed the cam bearings in an Olds, especially at 4600 RPM, you have a SEVERE oiling problem. A standard volume pump will not likely flow enough oil to run that RPM for any length of time. You'll need a high volume pump. It is also possible you have an oil control problem in the pan. You can run the larger clearances on the mains as suggested, but you'll need to make damned sure that you have a high volume pump that works right, and that oil is being controlled in the pan. I also use Mobil 1 15W 50 oil, and run my pressure up around 75 psi.
I prefer to pour my jet boat engines up to the water pump holes, since you have a whole lake for a radiator. It makes the cylinders stiff and they hold their shape better. I use Hard Blok, but Moroso or Ciba Giegy will work too.
I've found that hypereutectics don't work as well in engines in jet boats, and I consider them to be entirely inadequate and unacceptable for 400+ HP engines. Further, if you have sealing issues, and you do if you're blowing the dipstick out, you have problems with either the rings, the machine work, or the break in procedure. Some people like to use low tension oil rings, but I avoid them. There is nothing to be gained in using them for what you are doing. Don't use synthetic oil while breaking the engine in, it won't seal up. The pistons you have are not good for what you are doing with them, even if they were free.
I'd say above all else you need a different machinist and a different parts source. You've been into the thing twice in two years, don't keep making the same mistakes with the same people. All of your problems relate to machine work and parts choices. Use the same parts and the same machinist, and you'll likely get the same results. I've seen more than a few boats sold for the exact reason you'll have when you sell yours if you keep heading in the same direction.
I run my clearances a little tighter than SP does, with 0.0025" -0.003" on the mains, and 0.005 on the TRW pistons, but either way will work provided you do the machine work right and use the parts specified.
_________________
Alan K. Roehrich
Grant's Custom and Racing Automotive

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

What do you guys think about this?? I am totally lost and confused on this one! They dogged out almost my whole set up. No I feel like a failure :confused:
396

[Back Forty]

They all seem to be saying about the same thing though. Breath a little and consider it. That guy SP Olds is in so cal and could probably throw you some real help. good luck

[sidewound]

Keep at it buddy. Your doing a lot of research and that's good. Listen to EVERYONE! BUT, when it comes down to it, YOU'LL have to make the decision. Hopefully you will come to the right conclusions. You got me worried about my build now. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, no opinion cause I DON"T KNOW! I just wanted to add some encouragement. I don't need to run 80 and the weight savings with the Olds is a good plus for me. Plus
I LIKE RED!
Peace Man
CESAR
[ May 09, 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: sidewound ]

[malcolm]

Wow, 396
You've got more advice out of those boys than any of us have before. All sounds like good advice to me too. Keep listening to them all, keep the ideas that you like and see what you can do about the ones you don't. :D

[v-drive]

396, I feel your pain. almost from the beginning
you have complained about your machine work and I'm inclined to go along with the other opinions and say find a new machinist.There was a guy in Havasu and this number is a few years old but here goes. Brian Butch
morning (520)855-8883
Day 680-5923
:cool: v-drive

[TIMINATOR]

The clearances mentioned are all fine,but MAKE SURE that someone competant linehones the block,it's critical.We also check the rod side clearances,they are often too tight.The oil can't get out of the rod bearings if the side clearances are too tight. Also be sure that the crank end play is correct,if not the rear main gets oil starved too. We modify(port,round all sharp edges,and chamfer)the oil galleys on all motors we build,we port and blueprint the oil pumps too.This is required on any hi-perf motor,the Olds in particular.The bigblock Chevys have a better oiling system,thicker castings,and generally better parts,so most anyone can make them work,just throw parts at em and theyre ok.Olds work well when they are done correctly,but you can't just take them to anybody and get long lasting H.P. Oh yeah,we refer to "them" pistons as OVER-HYPED-YOU-****ED-ME. Timinator at TUF-ENUF

[Taylorman]

Funny you post this thread. I put in my crank today. I used plastigage to check main clearances. The 1 2 3 4 mains were .004-.005 and the number 5 was .005-.006. Not sure if this is to much.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Taylorman:
Funny you post this thread. I put in my crank today. I used plastigage to check main clearances. The 1 2 3 4 mains were .004-.005 and the number 5 was .005-.006. Not sure if this is to much. I was told that the clearances should be .0025-.0035 on the main and the rods should be .0020-.0030. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong? DO you check the crank dry? Did you use any lube after you tightened it all up? Did she spin freely? It should of if your that loose. I would do some checking on that one.
396

[Taylorman]

You should check clearances dry. I cleaned bearings and crank really good with brake cleaner, installed bearings and crank, then put plastigage on crank and torqued down the caps. I then took the caps off and checked the plastigage. I am now up at 530 AM and going to start the rebuild.

[Oldsquirt]

Taylorman, those bearing clearances scare me! Take the block, crank, rods and bearings back to the machinist and have him measure and record all the crank dimensions as well as the inside diameter of all the main bearings and rod bearings. Compare them to specifications. Something is not right!
Was the crank re-ground or just polished? Were main bearings line-honed?

[timitunnel]

For clarinces use a mic. Also for clarence specs the oil temp should be taken into consideration.If you run an oil coiler the metal temp will be lower than without. IE The higher the temp the loser the tollarance. Just remember, Big woman big pussy. Little woman all pussy. Tim