I'd like to ask a setup question

[Squirtcha?]

I've done alot of work to the boat over the past years, and this year I sprung to have a professional set the pump back for me. A buddy of mine did some setup work on it for me and got my speed up pretty good with no adverse handling traits, so I'm pretty happy with that. I'm the type that can't leave well enough alone though, so here's what I've got now.
Pump setback approx 3"
speedloader
flatcut shoe 1/8" or .120" above the keel line
rideplate set at 4.7 degrees up referenced to shoe
Place Diverter droop snoot and diverter
3 degree up wedge
I'm new to all this setup stuff, but I'm playing with shoe shims right now. I made my first set last night. I've got two that are approx .060 thickness each. They turned out pretty good and I've continued the angle of the shoe to the shim so there's no edge for the water to catch on. I've only installed one to see what it's gonna do.
When do I know if I've got too much shoe in the water? Not enough? Will I feel a drag when I get off the gas if it's too much?
Right now, when I get off the gas it just glides for what seems like forever, so I'm thinking maybe dropping it some might help. It also loses suction if I hit any sizeable wave.
Is .060 going to be enough? .120 too much?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me some here, or tell me what to expect.
Oh yeah, the boat is a semi-v 18.5'
[ April 16, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[MAXIMUS]

What shoe are you running? What is the angle of the shoe related to the keel? I would reference everything off the keel. Ride plate maybe for starters around 2.5 degrees up from the keel. As far as shims, what happens when you install them. How is the flow of water affected visually? I take a 6" straight edge and run it along the shoe ramp transition to the suction piece. Very important not to disturb the flow of water there! Depth of shoe is relative to complete set up. I would run it with out shims first. Then add 1 at a time & check handeling closely. I have noticed with my set up that the deeper I go with the shoe the more I can feel the drag during decelaration. If you have gps that is best way to see the differences. I would consider going to a back cut shoe also & see what happens. Maybe like a 2 or 2 1/2 degree back cut from the keel! Also the distance from the leading edge of shoe to the rideplate mount is important. If you can find or make a shoe with more surface area there it seems to help!
Do you have any dimensions on the loader (ie depth, length, blocker etc...)Just some of my thoughts! :)
p.s. Be very careful when testing. Pay close attention to the handling & attitude. I never go out & peg the throttle to see what happens. I will make a few easy squirts & gently bring up the speed to make sure I haven't stepped on my peepee! :cool:
[ April 17, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: MAXIMUS ]

[HammerDown]

Maximus...ya really had me there. I was taking it all in...serious stuff, great advice>>>
then I fell out of my chair laughing with the pee-pee comment :D

[MAXIMUS]

It happens! :o

[Squirtcha?]

Like I said, I'm new to all this fancy setup lingo. Keeping that in mine, some of my answers to your questions may be off.
Q: What shoe are you running?
A: It's got a flat shoe (not sure if that's what you're looking for here.)
Q: What is the angle of the shoe related to the keel?
A: Haven't checked it yet and didn't realize it was important. How do you change this once the intake is set and all?
Q: Ride plate maybe for starters around 2.5 degrees up from the keel.
A: It's 4.7 degrees up from the shoe when the shoe is at 0 degrees, but I'm not sure of the relationship between the shoe and the keel yet.
Q: As far as shims, what happens when you install them.
A: I don't know as I haven't taken it out since I put the shim in it.
Q: I take a 6" straight edge and run it along the shoe ramp transition to the suction piece. Very important not to disturb the flow of water there!
A: The guy that did the shoe/rideplate setup is a professional and the transition is smooth. When I made my shims, I actually continued the angle on the leading edge of the shim too. It's nice n smooth.
Q: I would run it with out shims first. Then add 1 at a time & check handeling closely. (o.k. not really a question)
A: I've already run it without the shims. It handles fine and has virtually no spray off the sides. In short, it runs very well. I've installed one shim and will try it to see what happens (being verrry careful not to step on my pee pee.)
Q: (this one's mine) Why am I messing with it?
A: See the first post on this thread. I can't leave well enough alone.
Q: Do you have any dimensions on the loader (ie depth, length, blocker etc...)Just some of my thoughts! (o.k. not a question either)
A: No unfortunately I don't have any dimensions on the loader either, but it's open. No blocker. I believe it's an over the counter job. I don't think it's custom built.
Thanks alot for taking the time to post up. Looks like I've got some measurements to take. On a good note.........like I said, it works fine the way it is, and I know how it's setup so I can always take it back to where it was. Really the only difference next time out will be dropping the shoe about .060"
[ April 17, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[MAXIMUS]

If you have a smooth transition with out shims, then chances are when shims are installed it will create a step. Only way to avoid this step is to have a shoe with the biting edge further foward. That is why I asked you "what happens when you install the shims". I didn't mean performance wise but just as a "fit". As far as adjusting angles on your shoe, that can be done with "wedge" shims or machine a new shoe! Your jet boat guy should be able to help you with everything I have discussed. I am not an expert... just a weekend warrior! :)

[HBjet]

Squirtcha?:
When do I know if I've got too much shoe in the water? Not enough? Will I feel a drag when I get off the gas if it's too much?With no shims installed, run the boat and record your top MPH with a GPS. Then install a shim. Run the boat again and record that time with a GPS. In theory, your top speed will increase (to a certain point) each time you install another shim. Once you have lowered your shoe to deep, you will see your MPH has decreased from the previous run. Then run the setup that gave you the best MPH.
HBjet

[77charger]

HBjet:
Squirtcha?:
When do I know if I've got too much shoe in the water? Not enough? Will I feel a drag when I get off the gas if it's too much?With no shims installed, run the boat and record your top MPH with a GPS. Then install a shim. Run the boat again and record that time with a GPS. In theory, your top speed will increase (to a certain point) each time you install another shim. Once you have lowered your shoe to deep, you will see your MPH has decreased from the previous run. Then run the setup that gave you the best MPH.
HBjet Randy is that how you dialed your boat in?My buddy steve just got the spacer for his shoe on his placecraft and was going to use the smae theory i told him (your idea)Put it on and run it to see the numbers but to watch out for deceleration when he lets off the gas

[HBjet]

77charger:
Randy is that how you dialed your boat in?No, but it's the theory I'm going to use this summer. It turned out my intake was 5/16" set too low in the boat, so my flat shoe was causing a lot of drag! Now that my intake is set right and I have a back cut shoe, I'm going to start playing with different shims and see what works best.
HBjet

[TRG]

Randy!,...how far are you from gettin wet?

[Squirtcha?]

Thanks for the replies guys. HB, I'll drop a message after trying your suggestions and possibly some other things, when I get it out again.
I think I'm gonna have to make up a couple thinner shims, say maybe a couple .030".
That second .060" will be a pretty big jump.
That way I can go .060 then .090, .125 etc. etc.
[ April 17, 2003, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[Jet Hydro]

HBjet:
Squirtcha?:
When do I know if I've got too much shoe in the water? Not enough? Will I feel a drag when I get off the gas if it's too much?With no shims installed, run the boat and record your top MPH with a GPS. Then install a shim. Run the boat again and record that time with a GPS. In theory, your top speed will increase (to a certain point) each time you install another shim. Once you have lowered your shoe to deep, you will see your MPH has decreased from the previous run. Then run the setup that gave you the best MPH.
HBjet Or when you get spit out of the boat you`v got to much Shoe because that`s gona happen if your not careful. Be real careful when you let out of the gas because that`s when you`ll get wet!

[Squirtcha?]

Wellll. I'm no physics major, but I do understand that in essence I'm lowering a shovel into the water here.
I'm not about to take it out and hammer it without getting a feel for it first.
Thanks for the concern though.
[ April 17, 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[HBjet]

Squirtcha?:
I think I'm gonna have to make up a couple thinner shims, say maybe a couple .030"..060" is fine. You don't need to make smaller ones. If I'm not mistaken, your boat isn't a drag boat and adding or subtracting .060" a time will get you where you need to be.
As for having too much shoe and getting pitched out of the boat.... Everyone should know when your reaching speeds above 60+mph it isn't safe to just let off the gas. You should always bring your speed down slowly to maintain total control of the boat. When your completely off the gas, you have no control.
Also, I wouldn't worry about puttin in too much shoe as long as you follow the steps I posted about finding the right setup. Remember, my shoe was 5/16" too low, and I have never lost control of my 80mph boat.
HBjet