How much to change out 455

[dgie]

wondering how much it be to change out 455 with 454. I called a local jet boat shop around here. There is only one in north Texas. The guy quoted me a 454 short block $3500 seems a little high (ok a lot high) Then he said the mounts etc would cost $4500. This guy is obviously full of crap and trying to milk anyone who walks in the door. I have a better idea, how about if I make my own motor mounts and my own power takeoff. Buy the headers new and pull a complete engine from a truck or car. This seems it would save a lot of money. The only thing I would have to buy are headers (hopefully second hand). One more thing when looking for a motor does it have to be a 4 bolt or will a 2 bolt work? Any thoughts on all this??

[HavasuDreamin']

That guy is full of crap. $4,500 for all the other crap. Please. devil Keep checking out motor prices while you make all the mounts, etc.
I don't know how much it will cost, but it will be worth every penny. :D

[Cas]

2 bolts are fine, that's what most are using.
As far as the change over, you could probably pick up most everything you'd need excluding the engine for $1000. or less. There are lots of people here, on the Banderlog board, ebay, the rjb board, Barney's board, Kwitcherbichen's board, dragboat.com and many others that would be able to find what you need.
Heck, I know of 3 boats within 15 miles of me that you could pick up the whole boat for less than $1000. All of them have all the necessary mounts and even come with pumps.

[Taylor LP]

I think Cas is on the right track. Lots of engineless boats at decent prices, and if you can get a pump thats the same as what you have, pickup some spare parts too. That could save you some bucks down the road.
The other option might be to sell yours and go with someting else that's running. You could come out ahead, and be on the water sooner. How attached are you to what you have?
Either way, $4500 is way high. Add another $3000 for a motor, and then look at what you can get for that kind of cash. I've seen a few decent boats on here for less than 5 grand.

[jdog]

My brother told me if I'm going to keep my boat, I should get rid of the 455 and put a 454 in it. PLease explain the pros and cons of this. I like my 455. I guess they have oiling problems and you can't build them or rev them as high as the 454. Is this the main difference? I know my boats slower than the ones with 454's but it seems reliable enough as lomg as I'm not flooring it all the time.
I do see 454's fairly cheap though. Any comments?
Thanks Jay

[Frosty_pop]

Mail order your front and rear motor mounts.
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/Pictures/107-20.jpg
$230.00
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/Pictures/107-40.jpg
$147.00
Build your own motor.....
Change out your exhaust
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/Pictures/200_twist.jpg
$675.00
or
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/Pictures/200_thru_transom.jpg
$700.00
Get a new drive line
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/Pictures/112_01hbar.jpg
$344.50
and adapter
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/Pictures/112_10pto.jpg
$45.00
not bad for a complete change over. There is more, but it's small stuff....starter, alt, water crossover, thermastat kit...etc.

[dgie]

I was thinking of all options. I put a lot of time and effort into the boat. I fiberglassed in a new transom took all last summer to do that, along with changing out all the wiring, rebuilding the pump. The only real negative the boat has is that I have the wrong motor in it. I would hate for all that time and effort that I spent, to just go to waste. So that option of getting rid of the boat and getting another is out. On the subject of getting a boat without a motor and canabalizing what I need out of it to do the changeover. In California Jet boats are easy to come by, in North Texas it is the opposite. Thats why everyone stares at mine like it is something from another planet. If it where a bass boat It would be a dime a dozen out here. I wish we had a recycler out here. When I lived in California I found a lot of deals in it. So I live in Hell and have to do the best with what is here. I will more then likely start to aquire parts for a bbc as I go along. Has anyone on this board ever made their own engine mounts or PTO. Also I am still not sure of the need for the bellhousing is it only to protect the teeth of the flywheel or is it need to mount the starter? On the olds the starter mounts directly to the block if it is the same I would like to do away with the bellhousing or manufacture my own cover for it.

[Frosty_pop]

The starter mount directly to the block just like the old.... except on the other side and turns in the other direction... ( you can't use the same starter) The rear bellhouing is also your rear engine mount... has dual purpose, covers the flywheel and mounts the motor

[dgie]

Frosty, thanks for the info. What I was thinking is that I could manufacture a plate that I could mount to the back of the block and then to the stringers. Then do the same to the front of the block.

[Frosty_pop]

oh..ok, but I bet you could find a used set of mounts pretty cheap around here..... And probaly sell your Olds mounts too. I sold mine here. The most $$$ part of the change over is the exhaust.... That's what is keeping me from going Big Block in mine for now. But I have a real healthy small block so I can't complain.

[Cas]

My first boat had a 455 in it, ran it for 11 years without a single problem. The only thing I did to it was change the intake, carb and dumped the dual point for a single point reworked stock distributor.
The 455 is a real good engine if you leave it in a relatively stock form. Once changes start being made, it ALL has to be done the right way or the problems start.
More times than not, people toss on intake, carb and headers and then a bigger cam. The engine is now going to get to the rpms where it won't live too long. In my opinion, the engine is getting a bad rap by people that are only going half way.
Granted, it's not a race engine but for a good running lake boat, they work just fine.
If you want to build a high performance engine to run at 5500-6000 rpms, an Olds isn't a good choice unless you have a boat load of money to put into it.
Here's a couple of boats with 455's that run very well.
1. runs near 65mph
http://www.laidbackboaters.com/4772ce10.jpg
2. runs over 70
http://www.laidbackboaters.com/47a36e10.jpg
3. runs about 80
http://www.laidbackboaters.com/13b58900.jpg
Each one of these engines were built right.

[dgie]

I just seen a set of OT headers for a bbc on ebay for $250.00 check it out. Also any sugestions where I could look for a big block, where do most people get them donor cars, junk yards,etc.?

[dgie]

nice boats Cas, thanks for the encouragement. When you say built right what do you mean, what was done, etc. I am still going to run the olds until I can get everything together, or until the engine stops. My engine is stock with the exception of restrictors from Mondello, High flow oil pump from Mondello and a Jet boat pan from Mondello (Moroso). I also have a Marine cam in it, not sure if it is the right one for a jet boat. Edelbrock Torker and a Holley 750

[Heatseeker]

I think Cas is right. If you build an Olds to spin, and you don't make ALL of the recognized mods, it'll pop. That's not to say it can't be done(I've seen that blue Kona run eek! !!!). If you leave it stock, it'll run forever. I have numerous friends who have proven it time and time again.
Also, my boat(BBC) has a plate for a rear mount. It uses a v-drive type sheetmetal flywheel cover. There's no reason you couldn't fab your own.

[dgie]

Heatseeker is there any type of cushioning between the motor and the stringer or is it metal to wood (stringer). My current front mounts have rubber up by the engine mounts on the motor.

[BK]

If you have rubber on the mounts its probley a 3 point mount? I did the switch a few years ago from Olds to Chevy, best thing I could have done IMO. Not to bash Olds motors, mine ran great in stock form for 4 years but I was ready to upgrade to more power and something I could put my foot into without having to worry about blowing up. I now have a higher hp motor for alot less $$$$$ and trouble than it would have cost me to build the the Olds and I can run the thing as hard as I want with no troubles (ok Olds guys, flame away!!!!). I bought the motor mounts and exhaust from Jim Brock at Cyclone Speed and Marine, he post here occationally and allways seems to have alot of used parts in stock, you might give him a call and check it out. BTW, you can reuse your alternator.

[Keith]

It sounds like that you found that boat shop near lake Lewisville. When I first bought my boat, I made the same mistake. I found Jim Brock at Cyclone, he answered all my stupid questions and sold me parts. P M me for Jim's phone. As far as a engine builder, badboat1 is in ftw and is worth talking to.

[Back Forty]

I'm with Cas. The Olds will do just fine if you do the research. The info and tech support is available on the net at minimum. If you want a "high" horse power power plant then I also agree that the BBC is a great way to go. One thing even myself (a die hard Olds guy) can agree with is that most of the boating public doesn't really care about what engine they have as long as the boat is reliable, is fast enough for the application and lives for a long time. When the modern Olds block was designed, the new thing in detroit was light weight castings. This is where all of the thin webbing and crap came from in those BOP designs. They are fine under 600-700 horse as long as everything else is tended to "striclty." One thing the chevrolet engineers did was maintain solid webbing. Oiling systems are much better thought out also. The Olds requires attention to detail but is a fine plant otherwise unless your looking for the higher HP. Budget wise the Olds won't break you by any means. My opinion is that if you so much as call Mondello one more time, you will be swindled and misled and sold otherwise bogus sh!t and info. Again just my opinion. This is where you'll get screwed.
If you want to follow up, step over here and ask away.
There are Several guys that have spent years setting up Chevy and Olds Marine plants without any problems. And probably one near you.
www.realoldspower.com (http://www.realoldspower.com)
The guy that runs the site just put his twin turbo small block (production block) Olds powered rail on the eighth mile strip for the first time and ran 160 MPH (1/8th Mile) on the first full pass. Not to Shabby. You show me a factory block small chevy that can do that.
I think it comes down to this, you buy a shit up boat to start with, you get screwed regardless of it being Olds or chevy. You drop a stocker junk yard chevy in it and you'll have a certain failure soon enough which leaves a full redo. You buy all of the stuff to change the thing out to chevy perform a rebuild plus the required nickle and dime stuff and you'll spend more than needed to get the Olds push you boat around at 70 all day.
All of this assumimg the pump is right from the begining.
Good luck whatever you decide.
[ June 20, 2003, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: Back Forty ]

[jdog]

Thanks Cas and Back forty, I think I will keep my 455. It will turn about 4400 and i know there's more just don't want to push it with a speed of about 55mph. Fast enough for me. It's been a reliable engine. Has Holley carb, Edelbrock Performer intake, and that's it. No problems. Not into racing just want reliable river boat.
Thanks again. Jay

[Moneypitt]

Djie, as stated by several, any motor, olds, ford chevy, mopar, etc. will do the job it was intended to do. but ALL of them will fail if asked to go beyond that task. To change over to chevy, (or ford or mopar) isn't in your best interest. keep what you have, improve it as you go, maintain it regularily, and have FUN. When the time comes to do a major rebuild,use the change over money to do the olds the best way for your purpose. They are fine engines for jet boats that can't use all that high rpm anyway. Torque from an olds comes on a curve for the jet that works good for a long time, without stressing everything with the Rs.... Moneypitt

[comin' unscrewed]

jdog:
My brother told me if I'm going to keep my boat, I should get rid of the 455 and put a 454 in it. PLease explain the pros and cons of this. I like my 455. I guess they have oiling problems and you can't build them or rev them as high as the 454. Is this the main difference? I know my boats slower than the ones with 454's but it seems reliable enough as lomg as I'm not flooring it all the time.
I do see 454's fairly cheap though. Any comments?
Thanks Jay Well, I have to admit I'm BBC fan and even a little anti-Olds. So if there was a problem I'd say make the change. But under the circumstances, hey, you know the old saying? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[GlastronGuy]

Cas:
My first boat had a 455 in it, ran it for 11 years without a single problem. The only thing I did to it was change the intake, carb and dumped the dual point for a single point reworked stock distributor.
The 455 is a real good engine if you leave it in a relatively stock form. Once changes start being made, it ALL has to be done the right way or the problems start.
More times than not, people toss on intake, carb and headers and then a bigger cam. The engine is now going to get to the rpms where it won't live too long. In my opinion, the engine is getting a bad rap by people that are only going half way.
Granted, it's not a race engine but for a good running lake boat, they work just fine.
If you want to build a high performance engine to run at 5500-6000 rpms, an Olds isn't a good choice unless you have a boat load of money to put into it.
Here's a couple of boats with 455's that run very well.
1. runs near 65mph
http://www.laidbackboaters.com/4772ce10.jpg
2. runs over 70
http://www.laidbackboaters.com/47a36e10.jpg
3. runs about 80
http://www.laidbackboaters.com/13b58900.jpg
Each one of these engines were built right. I hear that first boat pictured has everything going against it.
1. 455
2. E Pump
3. Deep V hull
4. Log manifolds
5. Quadrajet carb
:)

[Cas]

I'm pretty sure you should know too, it's yours :D

[dgie]

Good one Cas, I can't stop laughing :D