Rules of this forum.

[Blown 472]

1. When someone posts engine hp numbers, do not question them what so ever, does not matter if you have built some thing similar or badder it just dont matter.
2. Dont question the builder of said motor.
3. Dont matter what you have done, as it is all shit compaired to said motor.
4. Any questions, see 1 thru 3. :D devil
[ June 20, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Blown 472 ]

[78Eliminator]

Blown 472:
1. When someone posts engine hp numbers, do not question them what so ever, does not matter if you have built some thing similar or badder it just dont matter.
2. Dont question the build of said motor.
3. Dont matter what you have done, as it is all shit compaired to said motor.
4. Any questions, see 1 thru 3. :D devil 472, I would like to submit an ammendment:
5. Never ask what said motor did at the track or on the water.

[Blown 472]

Ding, thank you sir, slipped my mind.

[Liberator TJ1984]

78 , did you have the baffles ???
heard they are good for an extra 75 ponies and with my weak ass motor I really need them wink

[78Eliminator]

Liberator TJ1984:
78 , did you have the baffles ???
heard they are good for an extra 75 ponies and with my weak ass motor I really need them wink 75? Westech said they are good to wake up a 400hp motor to 789hp......
I'll measure tonight.....

[PussyPusher]

I heard that if you run a zoomie on one side and a twisty on the other thats where you really get HP.

[Bense468]

NO NO NO the key is to gapping your oil and indexing your gas. Oh and just another trick don't run any oil in it. Just that slick 50 shit.

[PussyPusher]

I thought that you were supposed to not run any water! That makes it burn gas faster.

[SERIOUS ISSUES]

PussyPusher:
I heard that if you run a zoomie on one side and a twisty on the other thats where you really get HP. That is only on a Ford. just remember zoomie on left twisty right= +25%hp. if you reverse this you loose 25%. :D :D :D

[Bense468]

your right I left that one out. I just filled my block with some spec mix and let it set up.

[Liberator TJ1984]

remember to always Hardblock the side opposite motor is torqing over, it will even it out wink

[Liberator TJ1984]

and I'm still pushing the speed coat idea , I mean if it works on the bottom of the boat why not in the motor , oughta really get things spinnin smile_sp

[RiverReady2]

Don't forget chrome each piece of chrome is good for 10-15 hp. eek!
-Justin

[Bahner18]

Hay, All that is good for HP but dont forget that each 6pack you take down is good for at least 10mph

[mickeyfinn]

Speed coating is ok for a cookie cutter boat, but if you want your boat to go REALLY fast don't forget to clean the bottom of your boat with a couple of quarts of prop wash.

[Bense468]

Bahner18:
Hay, All that is good for HP but dont forget that each 6pack you take down is good for at least 10mph And every year you get older the boat goes 5mph faster. SO if you are old and wasted. Then you were haulin ass back in the day.
[ June 20, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Bense468 ]

[Bahner18]

I like how easy it is to say how fast your last boat was

[MAXIMUS]

I need to biotch slap my engine builder for building me a blown 540 that only makes 800 hp!! F#@king shade tree, duche bag, junkyard engine, assembler!!!!!!!!! I will remove blower & possible get more hp??? :confused: I want to change worlds... frown

[revndave]

WHATS SCOTT AND BEN
JUST THE BOAT RUNS IN EXCESS OF 200.THEN I WOKE UP

[revndave]

SORRY
WHATS UP SCOTT AND BEN?

[Bahner18]

Hay Maxims are you kiddin about the HP

[MAXIMUS]

Bahner18:
Hay Maxims are you kiddin about the HP No it makes around 800-850 hp at 6200! :)

[MAXIMUS]

revndave:
SORRY
WHATS UP SCOTT AND BEN? Hey Dave you goin to red rock???

[LVjetboy]

Maximus, nice numbers, but wouldn't it suck to get passed by some dude with no blower? Oh, ya, and where's your dyno sheet?
:)
jer

[Bahner18]

Blower , NOS , Compression whatever it takes

[MAXIMUS]

LVjetboy:
Maximus, nice numbers, but wouldn't it suck to get passed by some dude with no blower? Oh, ya, and where's your dyno sheet?
:)
jer Jer I wouldn't waste my motor on a dyno! I can tune just fine on the trailer & in the water! No I don't have "the sheet" for all I know its less than 800hp! lol Wouldn't suprise me! As far as gettin passed by "some dude with no blower"... well... whatever there is always somebody faster! wink Good luck with your project, it will be interesting to see the results! I am pretty sure if I stuck my motor in a boat like yours it would move along way faster than I need to go! :)

[Bense468]

yes it would move along pretty good in a little placecraft. And there is always someone with more money too.
Whats Up Ren

[revndave]

Maximus
I heard you put out more than 850hp.

[MAXIMUS]

revndave:
Maximus
I heard you put out more than 850hp. Dave its all speculation! That is my point! Does it really matter? No! What matters is making the whole program come together! I really don't think my motor would be making much more than 800 hp at my rpm & boost. If it is than bueno!!!!!!! I would have to spin it upstairs with more boost & "race" gas to get those tasty big #'s eek! When my boat wouln't run over 88 mph it was a everybody's opinion that my motor was not making any power! I went from 88-109 & never touched the engine! :)

[MAXIMUS]

I will say this, aside from the races I havn't heard anything like it at the river. It sounds pretty damn stout even with exhaust under water!
I am reluctant to turn up the boost? My wife wants to kill me already! lol

[revndave]

HAVE TO TOOT MY HORN
MINE SOUNDS GOOD ALSO.

[MAXIMUS]

Yes it did!!! For a little feller... wink

[HavasuBarney]

Just not in comparison to mine! :D

[Jet Hydro]

revndave:
HAVE TO TOOT MY HORN
MINE SOUNDS GOOD ALSO. TooT TooT
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/208Race_Motor.JPG

[LVjetboy]

Maximus, you'll see all my numbers...dyno that is. For top speed, you'll have to meet me on the lake.
J/K.
You'll see those too. For better or worse. No sandbagn' here.
:)
jer
[ June 20, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[sidewound]

You guys are like so out there :cool:

[TIMINATOR]

TIMMINATORS RULES FOR ARGUING
1 Be right
2 be able to PROVE you are right
3 make SURE that the other person is SMART enough
to understand why they are wrong
4 make sure that the other persons ego will allow
them to admit that they are wrong
5 MAKE SURE ITS WORTH IT!
6 then pick on his dyno guy.....

[572Daytona]

My boat lost 200 HP crossing the Mississippi. I bought it with an 800Hp 572ci in California and it only made 609Hp on the dyno in Georgia. I've got dyno sheets and GPS/RPM numbers for my boat. The only thing I don't have is how much the boat weighs but it is probably one of the heavier jet boats out there. And if it ever stops raining out here, I've got the 12step Maximus plan to follow for better top speed.
Jer, I think you used my numbers in one of your original iterations of the JPC, you probably need to modify those since I gave you the Cali HP rating not the actual.

[Cas]

You guys still haven't figured it out, have you? I guess I'll let you all in on a little secret, it's called Pam. You all have seen it I'm sure, it's the anti stick cooking spray.
Most jets only need 3 cans, spray that stuff on the back half of the bottom of your boat and you'll pick up about 5mph. That's right 5mph for about $10.00...cheap speed....aerosol Pam

[MAXIMUS]

572Daytona:
My boat lost 200 HP crossing the Mississippi. I bought it with an 800Hp 572ci in California and it only made 609Hp on the dyno in Georgia. I've got dyno sheets and GPS/RPM numbers for my boat. The only thing I don't have is how much the boat weighs but it is probably one of the heavier jet boats out there. And if it ever stops raining out here, I've got the 12step Maximus plan to follow for better top speed.
Jer, I think you used my numbers in one of your original iterations of the JPC, you probably need to modify those since I gave you the Cali HP rating not the actual. Yea 572 I think you are screwed... with "only" 605 hp you will never go as fast as the socal crew!!!!!!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHHA lmao You need to bring it back out to the west coast... then presto shabang 1500 hp on pump gas! eek! But if you are gonna stay in Georgia then we will just have to compensate! wink

[MAXIMUS]

LVjetboy:
Maximus, you'll see all my numbers...dyno that is. For top speed, you'll have to meet me on the lake.
J/K.
You'll see those too. For better or worse. No sandbagn' here.
:)
jer Again I have been as honest as I could with what I know! I am not a "NJBA" racer & could care less if somebody beats me with a single carburator! If I get beat then its definitly by a faster boat... right??? lol Jer disect that for me would ya... :rolleyes:

[MAXIMUS]

Now if barney blows my doors then...well... cry cry cry cry cry cry cry

[LVjetboy]

572Daytona, yep, your numbers in JPC. Speed and rpm that is. But JPC uses pump curves for power not reported dyno numbers. So not affected by your dyno power.
Speaking of power, I can't figure a 200 hp difference. Did you find the problem...can you post both CA and GA dyno sheets? An AT "AA" at 5500 shows 683 hp. From what I've seen, not unusual to see full throttle rpms 75 hp below corrected dyno, but 75 hp more? I'm not buying the mississippi theory
:)
jer

[572Daytona]

Sorry no CA dyno sheet, 800 was builder estimated HP, the top speed matched what he told me so I believed the HP numbers as well. At the time it didn't seem out of line for a CA built motor, It's around 10:1 comp, Alum Dart 360's, Dart Tunnel ram intake, Single Barry Grant 1150 dominator. My current top RPM's are only 5350 on the AA, whether the change is due to having to add baffles or changes to better load the pump I don't know. Top speed this year so far is 89.2 on a GPS
You may be right about the Mississippi thing, it was probably the Rio Grande since the Texas and Oklahoma guys numbers seem in line with the East cost numbers wink
Here is the GA dyno sheet after having the motor freshened, my flatbed scanner got fried in the last lightning storm so I had to do the best I could with a digital camera
http://home.alltel.net/jthieme/Dscn0028e.jpg
[ June 21, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: 572Daytona ]

[LVjetboy]

Thanks 572. Am I looking at measured power here? What does "CAT error, 77 degrees used" mean?
jer

[572Daytona]

Jer, I'm not sure what you mean by measured power, if you are asking whether or not these numbers are corrected I don't know, these are the only numbers that I got. As for the CAT, there is a column next to Fuel Temp that is CAT temp, maybe that is catalytic converter temp if you were dynoing a car, it probably was a sensor that wasn't hooked up so it defaulted to the ambient air temp.

[LVjetboy]

Yes, by measured I meant "not" corrected power. I ask because it looks like your dyno results are not corrected. Also looks like a humid test day? The mississippi mystery continues...
So I plotted your dyno and impeller and got this:
http://users.lvcm.com/lvjetboy/572DaytonaMatch.gif
According to the dyno, at 5350 rpm the engine puts out 583 hp. According to JPC, turning an AT AA to 5350 rpm means 634 hp. Different test conditions (elevation, temp, humidity) could account for this 50 hp, as well as dyno and pump curve accuracy, but at least these two numbers are in the same ballpark.
So what's up with 800? Assuming your dyno data is measured hp, on a humid day (similar to your run?) I estimated an SAE correction factor...
http://users.lvcm.com/lvjetboy/SAEcalculator.gif
Then converted to STP by increasing 4%
1.054 x 1.04 = 1.096
A bit crude I know but didn't have an STP calculator handy.
This times your peak dyno power of 606 = 664 hp. Still 136 hp less than your builder's estimated 800 hp. Not bagging your builder, but both impeller rpms and GA dyno seem to say that 800 hp estimate was at least 100 hp high, even comparing corrected numbers.
Without a dyno run, we'd only have impeller rpm's to go by. With that there's always the question of how close is my pump curve? Is my pump build or blade condition throwing things off? Is my builder inflating numbers because he knows no dyno run? If I'm that far off from my builder's estimate, is my impeller too big? Etc.
Even more important, without that dyno information, you got little to base future power changes on. Even if the GA dyno read 126 hp low that day because of some unknown test equipment calibration error, you have the shape of your engine power curve...something fairly independent of correction factor and some calibration errors. From your curve shape, it looks like your AT AA matches well. Anything smaller may be a waste of rpms.
jer
[ June 22, 2003, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[HOSS]

Cool avatar 78!

[TIMINATOR]

572 Daytona---What cam is in yer motor,roller? duration at.050 and lift? Did I understand that the intake is a tunnelram or Dart singleplane? do you know the head flow cfm? just wondering based on the power peak.also how big is the Eliminator, 21 ? working on somthin similar and you could help me stay on track. THNX

[572Daytona]

Thanks Jer...I think the CA HP numbers were on the high side, he built the motor for the guy I bought the boat from (who told me 800) but when I pressed the builder a bit on the HP he was kind of non commital. I'm happy with the performance which matters more to me than HP. How does humidity affect HP? I thought humid air was denser therefore better for HP than dry air. The main reason I had it dyno'ed was to see if there would be any benefit from a smaller impeller and I came to the same conclusion that you did that the AA puts me right where I need to be with that motor, which is a good thing, the lower RPM the better as far as I'm concerned.
Timinator - The Dart manifold is the single carb version, I thought it was a tunnel ram, but since it is a single carb maybe it isn't, this is what I have:
http://www.dartheads.com/manifoldsbb/images/Manbb_1.gif
The cam is a crane (part number 139536), I'm not sure if it is roller or mechanical, Is there any way I can tell without taking the engine apart? I'm stupid when it comes to a lot of this stuff. The specs are 260/270 at .050 with .750 lift. The heads are Alum Dart 360's which according to their website flow 399cc with .750 lift according to their website: http://www.dartheads.com/bbrace308320360.htm
The boat is a Daytona 21' with an American Turbine pump.

[LVjetboy]

Just to keep in thread,
1) If you don't understand what a poster talks about, no worries...just post, "Cool avatar" or "Numbers suck, just bring it to the lake and run what u brung" Or "The lake's the only dyno that matters." Or, "What you say doesn't matter, the 1/4 mile's all that's important."
Similar macho themes. That should do it. You'll seem cool enough.
2) There is no number two.
jer
[ June 22, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[Jet Hydro]

Jer I see and read some of your post "Untill the really long one`s" Now I see you post "the 1/4 mile's all that's important."
Tell me a little about your boat so I can understand some of your post. Please?
What does your boat run in the 1/4?

[Kim Hanson]

LVjetboy:
Just to keep in thread,
1) If you don't understand what a poster talks about, no worries...just post, "Cool avatar" or "Numbers suck, just bring it to the lake and run what u brung" Or "The lake's the only dyno that matters." Or, "What you say doesn't matter, the 1/4 mile's all that's important."
Similar macho themes. That should do it. You'll seem cool enough.
2) There is no number two.
jer Like your thoughts on this,nice Avatar! Hows it hanging bud, see you are still shaking up this section! Good to see, keep at it!....( . )( . )...... :D wink

[LVjetboy]

Thanks Kim, tryin' to keep it real. Or, if nothing else...interesting.
jer

[Squirtcha?]

"The cam is a crane (part number 139536), I'm not sure if it is roller or mechanical, Is there any way I can tell without taking the engine apart? I'm stupid when it comes to a lot of this stuff. The specs are 260/270 at .050 with .750 lift."
I attempted to retreive your cam card from Crane's website and here's what it says about that part number.
"Part Number 139536 is not a catalog camshaft. Contact Crane Cams."
Must be a special grind. I'd bet that it's a roller though. From what I've seen, that'd be a lot of lift for a hydraulic.
[ June 23, 2003, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[LVjetboy]

572Daytona, humid air makes less power because water vapor displaces some of the oxygen, so the engine has less oxygen to burn. Not as important as pressure altitude or temperature affect on power, but it all ads up. For example, an engine rated at 650 hp would gain about 10-15 hp with a 50% drop in relative humidity.
jer

[572Daytona]

Thanks jer...that makes sense. I didn't realize that "correcting" the dyno numbers could make that much difference. So it sounds like you can choose an ideal climate for making horsepower, say the surface of Mars, and "correct" the numbers to that climate and pretty much make any HP number that you choose. It would be interesting to see the uncorrected numbers in some of these dyno runs.
Squritcha - yep I looked up that number on Crane's website and got the same thing as well, it looks like a legit number tho since 13 is the prefix for a BBC cam. I was under the impression that I had solid lifters as well since I do have to adjust valve lash.
Timinator - fyi...I have Crane roller rockers with a 1.7 ratio.

[Blown 472]

LVjetboy:
Just to keep in thread,
1) If you don't understand what a poster talks about, no worries...just post, "Cool avatar" or "Numbers suck, just bring it to the lake and run what u brung" Or "The lake's the only dyno that matters." Or, "What you say doesn't matter, the 1/4 mile's all that's important."
Similar macho themes. That should do it. You'll seem cool enough.
2) There is no number two.
jer That is funny, I have never seen the lights or scales, or gear ratios lie, The 1/4 is the great equalizer, all the bullshit stops after the first run and people realize their shit aint what they think it is. :p