View Full Version : Who all has a 455 olds in thier boat?
396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
09-04-2002, 10:47 PM
I just wanted to know what everybody is running in thier 455 olds as fas as parts. I already know what to put in my 454 chevy but I am rebuilding my 455 olds in about a month and I wanted to know what all I need to do it right. I know I need oil restrictors and a bigger oil pan but what else would be a good investment for that motor to stay strong for a couple of years or more. I plan on balancing,new cam,lifters,springs,rocker arms,timing chain,head gaskets, and an all new gasket set.Anybody have any ideas for me?
Thanks,396
Might check this place out:
http://my.inil.com/~dlbrown/oldsfaq.htm?35,7
Most Olds info I've found in one spot. BTW: doing the same to mine this winter...crank, rods, pistons, cam, rockers, intake, carb ignition...etc etc etc.
Todd, you wouldnt know where i could find that kind of info for chevy's would you?
Not exactly like the Olds FAQ. The closest thing I've seen to the Olds FAQ for Chevy's is the "How To Hot Rod your Big/Small Block Chevy" books at Schmucks. Not to say that it's not out there somewhere. I just haven't had any reason to look for it due to the fact that I sold off every Chevy I've ever had.
If you're looking for engine/head/crank numbers & what they came from, there's tons of sites on the net that list that kind of stuff. Just search go.com for Chevy engine numbers and it'll hand you 40+ useable sites.
If you're looking for information that's a little more marine performance oriented, I'd definitely watch the ***boat forums for guys saying what they did to their boat and what works. I'm new to the forum, but have been fiddlin with high perf engines since high school & the BS doesn't seem too awful deep here. I just don't know squat about jet pumps is all...If I did...I wouldn't have a YJ on my boat!
Also, you could check here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557882975/ref=pd_sim_books/002-5936348-3504037
Don't know if I've helped or not, but this is what I know. Happy jettin!
Jungle Boy
09-05-2002, 03:02 AM
396_WAYS_TO_SPIT:
I just wanted to know what everybody is running in thier 455 olds as fas as parts. I already know what to put in my 454 chevy but I am rebuilding my 455 olds in about a month and I wanted to know what all I need to do it right. I know I need oil restrictors and a bigger oil pan but what else would be a good investment for that motor to stay strong for a couple of years or more. I plan on balancing,new cam,lifters,springs,rocker arms,timing chain,head gaskets, and an all new gasket set.Anybody have any ideas for me?
Thanks,396Why would you change out a 454 with a 455 olds. Everyone on these boards complain about the 455ci; no oil pressure, can't run them hard, water leaks, oil leaks, low reving, heavy, ect. :rolleyes:
rmclague
09-05-2002, 05:37 AM
Everyone sounds like they have good input but I would like to add one more thing. Olds are bad about cam thrust. Mondello makes a cam button to stop this from happenind and thus stops the need for frequent retiming of the engine. It is a very inexpensive peice that will eliminate a lot of grief.
I rarely post because by the time I see a thread
It is usually already answered suficciently or has tuned into a juvenille name calling contest, but I really thought you should get this peice of information. Good luck on your olds, they do fine if you build them right from the start.
Rob
S/C Rebel
09-05-2002, 07:00 AM
I would get Joe Mondello's " Technical Reference Manual" (805-237-8808)($24.) before you get too far along with your rebuild plans, It covers all the details. Another other good resource is www.442.com, (http://www.442.com,) they have a great forum with some very sharp Oldsmofiles. Hope that helps.
malcolm
09-05-2002, 07:12 AM
I heard some Mondello talk.
http://www.mondellotwister.com/
396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
09-05-2002, 08:34 AM
Thanks guys for the input.
As far as jungle boy's reply I would never swap out a 454 for a 455. I have two different boats and engines. The boat I just bought was really cheap and it came with the 455olds. My other boat is almost done and it has a 454.
396_Always_Workin_On_A_455_And_A_454- at the same time. :D wink :D :D wink
Jordy
09-05-2002, 08:55 AM
Damn Michael, you are just glutton for punishment. Two boats, two motors...
Hey, we are looking at going to Saguaro Saturday around noon for sure and maybe Sunday too, although we might end up at Bartlett on Sunday. The Saturday plan is definate if you're interested.
Jordy :D
just finished my olds. L2323-30 pistons(around 10.1), comp 280h cam,(just installed and all I can say is WOW! wake me up already) no oil restrictors. tapped the back of heads and put return lines into oil pan. NO OIL PROBLEMS YET. edelbrock performer intake woorked by head shop, along with mild bowl work and exhaust polished. holley 850 dp. this motor dynoed 490 hp@5200 and 600lbs. balanced will spin 5600 on dyno all day. boat has AA impeller. bad combo. going to an A. It still wiped a 454 last weekend. he pulled me on top end but it took him a while to catch me. my pump is holding me to 4200. I couldn't be more pleased with the performance. especially in a heavy boat. 76 stuery 18' very deep hull.
BigDaddy
09-05-2002, 03:16 PM
jrau:
just finished my olds. L2323-30 pistons(around 10.1), comp 280h cam,(just installed and all I can say is WOW! wake me up already) no oil restrictors. tapped the back of heads and put return lines into oil pan. NO OIL PROBLEMS YET. edelbrock performer intake woorked by head shop, along with mild bowl work and exhaust polished. holley 850 dp. this motor dynoed 490 hp@5200 and 600lbs. balanced will spin 5600 on dyno all day. boat has AA impeller. bad combo. going to an A. It still wiped a 454 last weekend. he pulled me on top end but it took him a while to catch me. my pump is holding me to 4200. I couldn't be more pleased with the performance. especially in a heavy boat. 76 stuery 18' very deep hull.I Tottaly Agree sounds like the same Motor as me except mine is a 76Avenger semi V-Hull very heavy just like me.
http://pstr-m02.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/004/33/5B/BF/4B/o9o8Qir1GQ3BCHoB0erg20XMrxKX6C5M0180.jpg
396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
09-05-2002, 05:42 PM
jordy, I will be at saguaro on sunday with my other buddy who has a jet. I am thinking of wedging out my pump 5 more degrees for more tail.
jrau, thanks for the heads up and info. I didnt really want this motor but I kinda fell into it. I know it has potential but I needed someone like you to wake up the hope in me.
396
mikey-jones
09-05-2002, 06:37 PM
what are the stock hp/torque ratings on a olds 455?
malcolm
09-05-2002, 06:59 PM
From what the Spectra 18's brouchure said the marine 455 was 390 hp. The auto version was 370.
jrau- you said "L2323-30 pistons"...who makes them? Is it a mondello thing? And what CC head are they saying 10:1 at?
Todd
rktpwrd
09-05-2002, 11:12 PM
A good Olds board is http://www.realoldspower.com
Many of the people there, have been burned by Lynn and moneydello. There is some serious olds racers there.
There is 2 types of oil restrictors for an olds motor. 1 type is the type that are often refered to, they are installed in the main webs leading to the cam bearings. They help keep the oil in the mains, but do not solve the excess oil in the top end of the motor. The other type is lifter bore oil restrictors. The olds has 2 main oil galleries that are gun drilled the length of the block. All the lifter bores are fed from these main oil galleries, also the mains on one side. The holes can be drilled and tapped to accept 1/4 20 or 1/4 28 thread for allen head set screws. Heat each set screw red hot to remove the hardness, then drill a hole .040-.0625 for solid flat or solid roller cams, .078 for hydraulic lifters. Score the threads on the set screws, use red loctite when installing them. Port the rear main cap, use a hv pump, you can also drill out the crank shaft oil holes to 15/64 to help oil and cool the rod bearings. The olds has big 3 in main and big 2.5 in rod journals they need more oil then the factory gave em if your going to lean on them.
L 2323-F is a TRW/Speed Pro part number for a 455 olds forged piston, they are heavy!
A good relatively inexpensive 455 build is a 7 in rod 455 (stock 4.25 stroke) with pontiac Keith Black hyperutectic KB-222 piston. It will give you 0 deck without any decking of the block the valve spacing is the same on the olds and pontiacs so the valve releifs line up. The pistons and pins are alot lighter then the previous mentioned trws. The rods are the early 400 olds big block or 425 big block olds, they use the arp 350 olds rod bolts. With the lighter pistons and pins, and the longer rods people seem real happy running this combo on realoldspower.
On the heads a few common things is to remove the bumps in the roof of the exhaust ports, bowl port, tear drop or canoe the valve buides, and a good 3 or 5 angle valve job. Hope this helps some, I wasn't sure how in depth you plan on going with the olds build. wink
That's funny you mention the Pontiac pistons in the olds motor. This is what the olds FAQ says...and according to my machinist, it'll work. I'll let you know how well it works in the spring :-)
Cheap High Compression 455
Buy TRW forged Chevrolet 396 +.060 pistons. The bore is 4.155 perfect for your +.030 455 Olds. Piston height is like +.020 more than Olds, which will give you 0 deck or there abouts. The Olds connecting rod will have to be reamed out (like $20). The good part is the Chevy pistons sell for $220 or so. A machine shop will mill off the big domes for $50 or so. Doing this you can get around 11.5:1 compression with unmilled heads and a stock type head gasket. Compare the $290 price tag with a set of $600 custom flat tops.
Sangster
09-06-2002, 05:04 PM
Jungle Boy:
396_WAYS_TO_SPIT:
I just wanted to know what everybody is running in thier 455 olds as fas as parts. I already know what to put in my 454 chevy but I am rebuilding my 455 olds in about a month and I wanted to know what all I need to do it right. I know I need oil restrictors and a bigger oil pan but what else would be a good investment for that motor to stay strong for a couple of years or more. I plan on balancing,new cam,lifters,springs,rocker arms,timing chain,head gaskets, and an all new gasket set.Anybody have any ideas for me?
Thanks,396Why would you change out a 454 with a 455 olds. Everyone on these boards complain about the 455ci; no oil pressure, can't run them hard, water leaks, oil leaks, low reving, heavy, ect. :rolleyes: A 455 Olds is acually lighter than a 454 Chevy by about 10lbs....
rktpwrd
09-06-2002, 09:13 PM
A olds 455 is around 45lbs lighter then a 454chev.
http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html
I'd never use a 396 piston in a olds (refering to a 402 chev piston). By the time your done milling the domes off, reaming the rods (they need to be right on to get a good press fit) for the larger wristpins, who knows if you'll have valve to piston interference since the reliefs don't line up, you'd be better off with true olds pistons with stock length rods.
Here's a few pistons:
KB Olds455 (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/page50.htm#SECT1)
KB Pont455 (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/kbpontiacpg.htm)
Chev402 (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/page35.htm#SECT5)
They list the compression heights and the weights of the pistons/pins and the size of the rings 5/64 width ect.
the speed pro pistons are a bit heavy, but mine balanced nicely to a nodular crank. although still not a high rpm motor, the olds, with proper care, will outlive any other mild big block. If you have an FO block or even up to F2, It will have much more nickel than common chevy or fords. Mine is a F0 and solid. Machinist hated boring it. he said it was very tough. Any machinist with a little metalurgy knowledge can confirm this.
with the torque of the olds, I find it perfect for a cruiser. 57-58 mph on gps at only 4100 rpm and one hell of a wholeshot to go with it. I can see the performance upgrade problems. thanks to alot of help from this board, my motor performs flawlessly, but I moved my powerband so my AA impeller is restricting me. The return lines from my heads to oil pan idea came from 442.com faq. It helped alot. stopped leaky valve covers and keeps the pan full alot better.
the 10.1 is with K, marine heads whatever cc they are. I believe 77 or 80cc. with thin cooper head gaskets
[ September 07, 2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: jrau ]
Jet Novice
09-09-2002, 09:55 AM
Finally a post that offers some useful insight on the Olds engine. A lot of us are running Olds powered boats and I, for one, get kinda tired of reading the flaming negative stuff about the Olds engine. I will be building my 455 soon and would love to hear some Olds success stories and welcome good tech info. I have bought the Mondello book and there is some good information in it. But I gotta believe there are more people that know their stuff about Olds than Mondello. I am always looking for better ideas than to "swap to Chevy". Bring on that good Olds info and lets stick together. Um...I'll get off my soap box now and go back to sleep.
mud duck
09-09-2002, 10:48 AM
Question; If you bore your 455 Olds .30 over, how big is it then? I was told it adds about 7 cubic inches. Is this corerect? Can you bore it a second time? What are the limits so as not to get to close to any water jacket pockets?
I am toying with the idea of pulling my engine to fix an oil dip stick tube problem. And of course, once the engine is out you "might as well" do other stuff. Maybe re-ringing the pistons and a set of new heads. It is so difficult to stop the "might as well" game.
rktpwrd
09-09-2002, 11:16 AM
A .030 overbore is 461 cubic inches. 455's can go .060 over easy, after that it's best to have the cylinders sonic tested to make sure they are thick enough. Some drag racers are running .125 overbores, 4.250 bore, but they got lucky when they tested the block. When the bores get too thin they flex and the rings won't seal decent. If you can, have the engines honed with a torque plate. When a head is torqued on it pulls the bores out of round. The torque plate is used to simulate the head being torqued on the block, then it's honed to true up the bores.
Omega21
09-09-2002, 02:42 PM
rktpwrd,
So if I were to do the kb222 piston swap on my 455, I would be looking for the 65-67 425 rods? Or the 68-75 rods?
Thanks!
Todd
Omega21
09-09-2002, 02:59 PM
Nevermind...just found it on realoldspower. FYI: they're the 65-67 rods for a 400/425.
hehehe...I wonder how many guys are gonna rip apart their 455's now :D
GOT WATER ??
09-09-2002, 03:19 PM
I have a 455, It is ok but I am going to pull it and put a 460 in. Every time I run the 455 I have another oil leak that I have to fix.
Wet Dream
09-09-2002, 07:36 PM
I gotta agree with NOVICE...this is the best response I've seen on an Olds thread in here, except for the occasional person that doesn't know a thing about Olds, it all looks very helpful. I am running the Olds, love it. Ran the crap out her all summer long and haven't had a problem to date. KNOCK ON WOOD ***. I am relatively stock but turning 4900 with an A imp. I was planning on rebuilding it .060 over with a lot of upgrades, but I think since its doing this good, I'll leave it alone for one more summer.
Licketty Split
09-10-2002, 02:22 PM
YA YA 455 Olds-mo-bubble in my boat too :)
jetaddict
09-11-2002, 09:01 AM
I have spoken to alot of engine guy's since buying my 455. I run mine at 5500 rpm's all day every weekend. I have been told that it definately has balanced mondello rods in it. Everyone I speak to say's talk to him about the bottom end because he knows this stuff and his input is free on the phone. He must know something to design heads for edelbrock..
Free info is always good,take it or leave it.
GlastronGuy
09-11-2002, 09:20 AM
Are you sure you want to know?
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1018.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1019.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1020.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1021.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1022.jpg
Sorry you asked?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.