Ford 514 cobra crate motor ?

[mctrick]

Im thinking about replacing my 460 with the Ford motor sports crate 514 600Hp engine turnig a Berkeley 12JF . Has anybody done this? argue

[Hallett19]

no, but I want to !!

[BobbyB]

Is there a 514 kit fot the 460?

[HOSS]

Me too. I saw it on Fordracing.com I think.

[058]

If you buy a crate 514, follow the recommendation of adding clearance to the rods and mains for marine use. They come from Ford with street type clearances which are a little tight for boat use.

[mctrick]

Whats the difference argue

[LakesOnly]

mctrick:
Whats the difference argue About 500 engine hours....
wink
LO

[058]

mctrick:
Whats the difference argue The difference is wether or not your bearings live. Not looking for an arguement, personally I don't care. I'm just passing along some advice that the people at Ford say.

[mctrick]

I was kinda looking for a more technical reason.

[Blown 472]

I believe and 058 can correct me ifin I is wrong but because of the constant load on the engine the oil gets hotter along with everything else thus needed greater clearances to keep from running metal on metal.

[mctrick]

Not to argue but I would think the heat in an automtive application would be greater than a jet where the coolant temp struggles to get to 160? Just Wondering? :confused:

[Blown 472]

mctrick:
Not to argue but I would think the heat in an automtive application would be greater than a jet where the coolant temp struggles to get to 160? Just Wondering? :confused: Not to open the "what has a greater load" thread agian but boats put a greater load on the engine, and a jet load will increase as rpm goes up, I believe this is why you want to increase the clearances.

[mctrick]

Ogh. My original question was to find out if that engine package would work properly in a jet boat application as far as cam specs and would an A impeller allow the engine to reach its full potential, also the externally balanced flex plate that that motor uses would work with the way the ujoint bolts up since the original 460 has an intenally balanced crank thus for using an unbalanced flex plate? I was hoping to see if anyone else has made this swap. :confused:

[Blown 472]

I see, did you call ford motorsport about the flex plate stuff?? and anything else??

[Squirtcha?]

mctrick:
Not to argue but I would think the heat in an automtive application would be greater than a jet where the coolant temp struggles to get to 160? Just Wondering? :confused: Here's a post with some information that LVjetboy put up last year. Pretty interesting that although our motors "struggle" to get their temp to 160 degrees, the oil temp has no problem soaring above 200. That's the hell where our bearings are trying to live.
LVjetboy's post
Oil Temperature Data
Sun Jun 3 15:12:30 2001
Here's the data I promised. Many posts ago we had a thread on oil coolers. Someone stated that jet oil temp runs 100 deg. above engine coolant temp...a claim I found hard to believe. Well, I was wrong. Under certain conditions the oil temp can run near 100 degrees above, so here's the story:
Bought a mechanical oil temp gage (autometer, 140-280) and tested it against a meat thermometer in boiling water. Both matched w/in 3 deg from 140-210. Installed gage probe in oil gallery located above oil filter on my BBC...contacting oil just after it leaves the filter on the way to the bearings.
Tested over two days last week with air temps of 105 and lake temps at 76 F. Idling out harbor, coolant water temp rose quickly and stabilized at 170, oil temp was just coming off the peg at 150. After complete warmup, did steady cruise (appox. 2 miles each check):
40mph/water 170/oil 205/delta = +35
50mph/water 170/oil 220/delta = +50
60mph/water 175/oil 240/delta = +65
70mph/water 175/oil 258/delta = +83
73mph/water 175/oil 265/delta = +90
When I backed off on speed, oil temp dropped back down.
Idle(after hard run)/water 190/oil 210/delta = +20
So, even though the water temp dropped to a fairly steady 170-175 during cruise, the oil temp continued to climb as engine load increased to 90 above coolant at full throttle. For reference, full throttle cruise was 5000 rpm with an oil pressure at 45 psi.
Oil cooler in my future? Eventually, maybe. Except for the oil temp cruise tests, the oil temp stayed in the 200-230 range the entire weekend. This is because most of my boating is a quick runs around for battery charge or impromptu race, then floating and chillin' with the stereo. I rarely cruise anywhere at max speed and normally stay within a mile or two of the marina.
But for someone with different boating habits, and much longer cruise times...an oil cooler with thermostat control may be a consideration. May also be good to have the extra temperature protection of a synthetic.
Cheers!
jer (aka; LVBOY)

[mctrick]

Thats where I got the idea that somebody with previous experience would no if there balanced flex plate would work with the pump driveshaft set up since the flex plate with my 460 is for a internally balanced crank. Ford also said the cobra heads might present a header problem since the ports are different. As for the oil temp thread I SEE Thanks.

[Squirtcha?]

Don't know if you're running headers or logs but this may be a point of interest. Bassett only makes one type header for BBFs and they're made for Cobrajet size ports. In other words, there is a big mismatch with stock heads and Bassett headers (stock to CJ). It doesn't really matter though as the headers are larger than the port size. I called Paul Bassett just to check on it, and this and this is what he told me over the phone.
If you're running CJ heads then the headers will match up fine as they'll be the same size. (CJ to CJ).
[ May 06, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[Blown 472]

mctrick:
Thats where I got the idea that somebody with previous experience would no if there balanced flex plate would work with the pump driveshaft set up since the flex plate with my 460 is for a internally balanced crank. Ford also said the cobra heads might present a header problem since the ports are different. As for the oil temp thread I SEE Thanks. The crate motor should come with a flex plate, if not just buy the one for it, you will be driving the pump from an h bar anyway.

[Blown 472]

mctrick:
Thats where I got the idea that somebody with previous experience would no if there balanced flex plate would work with the pump driveshaft set up since the flex plate with my 460 is for a internally balanced crank. Ford also said the cobra heads might present a header problem since the ports are different. As for the oil temp thread I SEE Thanks. damn double post.
[ May 06, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Blown 472 ]

[mctrick]

Ill need thru the transom headers for the CJ heads and this some say could be a problem

[Squirtcha?]

Nope, not a problem. Bassett's headers are all CJ sized, including the through transoms. They'll bolt right up. I did a set for a buddy last year, when he switched from logs.
Bassett web page (http://www.Bassettracing.com)
Here's their contact information. Paul's a real nice guy and a pleasure to deal with.
Bassett Performance, Inc.
1380 N. McCan Street, Anaheim, California 92806
Order Line: (800) 345-5824
Tech Line: (714) 630-7999
Fax Line: (714) 630-3121
Email: mail@bassettracing.com
[ May 06, 2003, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[TX19]

I have made the swap - several times over. I am currently using the 514 motorsport shortblock with Blue Thunder Heads and a Hayes heavy (40#)flywheel. I started out with the Cobra Jet aluminum heads on the 514 shortblock and had no problems with my Basset over the transom headers fitting as well as using my internally balanced flexplate.
If your flexplate was zero balanced initially, I think it will be ok to use with the externally balanced shortblock. The externally balanced rotating assembley in the 514 should not see any unbalance.
I think the suggestion about opening up the clearances a bit is good advice. I disassembled mine initially and did that and have had no problems. If you are planning to run it extremely hard, say over 5 minutes @ 6,000 rpm, I would recommend a few more modifications.
I think you will be pleased with your choice, I am with mine and it works great for me in my TX19 Dominator jet boat.
Good luck to you!

[mctrick]

Thanks everyone for the info, its much appreciated idea

[oldphart]

I built a 514 using a Eagle kit, Aluminum motorsport heads,victor intake, 1150 dominater, MSD ignition, massaged logs, ford flex plate. its in a 21' daycruiser. havent got enough time on it to really blast it but it sounds and feels real strong. the old 460 was a week sister

[SB]

Ok, no one really answered the cam question. The specs. are below. You will likely have to change cams or go to a smaller impeller. Do you want to pay $7k for an engine, then take it apart to redo the bearing clearances and change cams?
514 Cu.In. Crate Motor - "600 HP" Bracket Race PART NUMBER: M-6007-B514
600 horsepower @ 6250 RPM. 590 ft./lbs. of torque @ 4750 RPM. 9.8:1 compression ratio (Nominal). Sturdy 460 2-bolt main short block M-6009-B514. Cast nodular iron 4.300 inch stroker crank. M-6200-A514 connecting rods with ARP bolts, AMPCO 18 rod bushing. Ford Racing/TRW forged aluminum dished pistons with full floating pins. Mechanical roller lifter camshaft with .647 inch lift, 254 degrees intake and 258 degrees exhaust duration @ .050 inch lobe lift. M-6049-C429 "Cobra Jet" aluminum cylinder heads. M-9424-H429 "Victor Jr." single plane intake manifold (requires Dominator carb). 1.73:1 ratio aluminum roller rocker arms. A serious high performance engine for Bracket or 8.90/9.90 Class Racing. Also fits Fox chassis cars for the ultimate in Pro Street crate motors. NOTE: Headers not included.Look at what you get:A new 514 cubic inch engine assembly taht includes the items listed above and a multi-index timing chain, 4130 one-piece push rods, HD oil pump and pickup, oil pan, M-6582-A460 valve covers, aluminum front cover and water pump, damper, flywheel, spark plugs, related long block engine parts and remanufactured block .030" overbore. Ford Racing "Cobra Jet" aluminum cylinder heads. They flow significantly more than production 460 heads and feature Jon Kaase port design. Combustion chamber volume is 72cc (nominal). Ford Racing "Cobra Jet" valve train includes springs, retainers, keepers, seals and premium stainless steel swirl polished valves with stems. Intake valve diameter is 2.20" and exhaust valve diameter is 1.76". Ford Racing high performance hydraulic camshaft M-6250-A443 provides signigicant horsepower increases above 1500 RPM and good low end torque. Valve lift is .562" intake and .588" exhaust. Duration at .050" is 234 degrees intake and 244 degrees exhaust. Remanufactured blocks have a clean-up cut to the cylinder head deck, align honed maing bearing bore, bottom tapped holes (no heli-coils), new freeze plugs and cam bearings.Installation Notes:Some or all of the following items may need to be changed from you original engine or modified for proper installation. The dual sump oil pan may work for many late model Fox chassis cars, 1979-95 Mustangs, 1980-95 F-Series and early model street rods. The water pump may work for most 7.5L standard rotation applications. The valve covers should fit most Mustang and other non-EFI applications. The flexplate should work for most C-6 automatic transmission applications. If a mechanical fuel pump is to be used, the front cover and water pump must be changed, and a fuel pump eccentric added to the front of the camshaft.

[mctrick]

Not really. I just want to burn more fuel, make more noise, have a big roost and go faster and right now my 460 is in sad shape and my boat looks like shit, but at least it used to run. pig_flyi

[Squirtcha?]

I considered doing the swap last year but had mine rebuilt instead. SB is probably right about the cam. I'd be real curious to see what the horsepower rating is at our rpm range 5200-5500 rpm. If it's only 500 and change, you could easily get that from your 460 (or stroke it) and it'd probably cost less. Just a thought.
Something doesn't sit right with buying a brand new crate motor, then tearing it down to re-clearance bearings and replace a cam (if that really needs to happen).
[ May 08, 2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[mctrick]

You definetly have a point and I only considered the crate engine after looking at my cylinders and realizing Ive been steam cleaning the inside to the degree of major pitting and the block is scrap. I guess I could get a used block and Im trying to figure the most economical avenue.

[Blown 472]

Here is the number for ford motorsport.. 1 586-468-1356 pretty smart fellers.