Any Auto Painters in here

[1973 Hondo]

How bad is Imron paint for vocs an would you spray it?

[sidewound]

I know you have to use a fresh air supply mask to spray it. Wicked stuff. PEACE MAN

[Jbb]

Just about the deadliest paint on earth ...If sprayed thru an HVLP system it meets the 3.5# voc ruling Without a full face fresh air system and shoot suit ...dont even consider it!

[Clown]

OH Man I'm I Deep shit!
I've been painting crap in the garage since I was in 7th grade alot with no respirator, Until a guy at the paint shop started selling me Imron.
He told me I better wear a respirator if I want to live to see 21.
I think I counted 4 cars that I can remember of painting with just the standard mask. And I cant evan begin to think of the times painting without a mask. does anyone remember the old K&B hobby poxy that stuff had lead in it. Gees I'm a dead man!
no joke!
I've burned thru at least 10 gallons of Imron over the years out in that garage, maybe that is why I'm a little wacked now a'hh.

[blownschiada]

What do you want to use that garbage for anyway?With all the new urethanes you can buy now I wouldnt use that stuff on anything but some old farm equipment! :D

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

JETBOAT BRIAN:
Just about the deadliest paint on earth ...If sprayed thru an HVLP system it meets the 3.5# voc ruling Without a full face fresh air system and shoot suit ...dont even consider it! I will have to agree with Brian. My dad sprays imron everyday and let me tell you that is some powerful sh!t. Not only is it bad on the body, you better know how to lay it down. Imron has the best clear on the market. If I can remember correctly its called "#333"
Just my .02 though.
396

[ChetCapoli]

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT:
. Imron has the best clear on the market. If I can remember correctly its called "#333"
Just my .02 though.
396 think so?? That concept clear by ppg has to be a close second. Little more user friendly i think.
CHET

[LakesOnly]

I shot DuPont Imron for three years straight.
It is a two-part system; it won't dry/cure until the activator (catalyst) is mixed in. Then you have only eight hours to use it (cures in eight hours). It's an extrmely durable coating, resistant to high/low temps, UV, etc.
The danger in this polyurethane enamel is in the catalyst. It primarily contains aliphatic polyisocyanates (a really concentrated form of cyanide).
Whan I was spraying it, I had a well ventillated spray booth and wore a mask that mechanically pumped/force-fed fresh air to me. Never-the-less, when the Cal-Osha guy came around our corporation for inspection, he looked at me horrified when I showed him my work area and what I do.
"Wear that pumped-air mask evertime," he said. "Everyone's a little different, but when some people are exposed to enough of this stuff, it will trigger the manufacture of antibodies in your immune system. And production will never stop, ever. Then, years from now you might be so sensitive, that if I open a can of this activator in an open field and the breeze blows in your direction, you'll drop and gasp for air."
Holy sh*t.... eek!
I always wore a mask and to date don't have any such problems. I also know others that didn't have the breathing aparatus tha I did, and they are okay too. So I suspect the inspector was giving me an extreme situation. On the other hand, I know a guy that sprayed a car in his driveway and was sick for three days later.
Alll this was over ten years ago. Today there are lots of urethane enamels of the market that are as decent a coating.
LO

[LakesOnly]

p.s. If you're thinking of painting with this stuff and have no painting experience, BEWARE. It is very difficult to apply. You are supposed to spray as heavy a coat as posssible without runs because it intednded to be applied in just one coat (fisrt a tack coat; then follow up with a full coat).
LO

[HammerDown]

Lakes....whats this Chroma paint by Dupont I herd so much about?
My brother sweares by that (Bird Paint) Glazart, (spelling)? He uses it on Custom street rods and Harleys.
He also suffers with a Lung Problems (Pulminary Fibrosos)Spelling again??? from years and years of Painting

[bilgewiper]

Used to be a auto painter 1980-1988. I remember many days spraying 5-10gallons of Imron on tanker trucks in one day. Used to do it outside on the bigger tank trucks just using regular charcoal type canister mask. Sometimes without a mask just cause I was sweating to much in the sun. Inside in a booth with cars etc. we always used masks, sometimes even fresh air supplied ones if it was bigger than a average car. Stuff didn't bother me as much as Centauri (sp?)did. On outside jobs a trick was if it was going to be 80+degrees in the sun we would put the hardner/catylyst in the paint the night before and mix it up good and store in the freezer so it wouldn't go off. Then we would spray the tanker trucks in the sun with just one really thick coat. It wouldn't run cause the metal was so hot and the catylyst would cure the instant the near frozen paint hit that hot metal. Completly dust free in about 15-30seconds. Just like spraying lacquer primer except with real shine. I also sprayed it on at least 6 boats. Two of which spent summers in the water. They both blistered after two months below the waterline. Got out of the auto body business because of the Bondo dust more than the problems with polyisocynates. I know it's all totally usless info but what the heck .....it brought back memories. Like the time one of my co-workers dumped his girlfriends perfume into the air intake of the fresh/air supplied compressor and and plummed it instantly to my mask.....I actually fell down in the booth luckely not toword the car that I was painting, didn't know what hit me. I would have killed him except he was laughing too hard and I had to admit I had thought of something simular before (maybe farting over the intake) to him while he was sprary with the mask on. Sorry for long useless post.
Ethan

[1HOTGMCJET]

HammerDown:
Lakes....whats this Chroma paint by Dupont I herd so much about?
My brother sweares by that (Bird Paint) Glazart, (spelling)? He uses it on Custom street rods and Harleys.
He also suffers with a Lung Problems (Pulminary Fibrosos)Spelling again??? from years and years of Painting Hey Hammer - I believe what you're looking for is "Glasurit" - another manufacturer of polyurethane/catalyzed paint products.... also, "Pulmonary Fibrosis" is a painter's malady - not gonna get into how much/many of the "deadly sins" I'm guilty of (in my painting years), but suffice it to say, TOO MANY.....I'm probably lucky to be alive.... lucky YOU GUYS, eh???? LOL :D :D :D

[Jbb]

Glasurit is an Acrylic urethane, similar to the higher end stuff from Dupont and PPG It is nice paint ...but very expensive.....
The thing ,as I see it about paint is this.
If you are not going with a true polyurethane (overkill 0n a car!!)
Then the only other viable choice you have is an acrylic urethane ...Base clear systems are the easiest to use ...Just takes a little practice like anything else
PPG Dupont Sikkens Glasurit Sherwin Williams ....They ALL buy their raw ingredients from the same people ....
I mam not going to go as far as to say paint is paint ...Its not .
BUT you can pretty much buy any MAJOR BRAND of base clear paint ...spray it ...and if you are willing to water sand and buff it ...It can look as good as a show car....
I have done it thousands of times...
The real difference in who's paint is best is told by how long they will last in everyday use
The Acrylic Clears from PPG and Sherwin Williams are my current favorites ....and I have been doing this a long time ......If you were on a budget you could buy Centari acrylic enamel and add either their hardener or a generic hardener to it (it is an option)and wet sand and buff ...and have a really nice paint job....Do remember however the nicer the paint looks ...the worse any bodywork and sanding mistakes look!

[Kurtis500]

I painted my flat 7 years ago with Imron and it still has a beautiful shine on it. Never polished it, just wipe it down after using.

[blownschiada]

I have painted many boats in my area.The best system I have found is to paint the boat with a solid color with Chroma One single stage urethane then wet sand with 600 grit, then lay my graphics out and spray them with Chroma Base(or HOUSE OF COLOR for the wild colors),then top coat with Chroma Premier 72400 clear coat. Finish of with a little sand & buff. CHERRY!!!! All the "Chroma" products are DUPONT. Good luck everyone has their own system. :D

[HammerDown]

Chroma One....thats the product I've heard good things about!

[Ultra21]

I remember when I first used the Chroma 2 stage a few years ago I did a white base on a jet ski with blue and purple flames. It went on flat like primer and I was pissed. I went ahead and laid the clear on and it was like someone turned on a light switch. It looked awsome, wet and it stayed that way even after it dried. I've used it ever since. A little pricy though, I just payed $65 for a quart of bright yellow...ouch!

[LakesOnly]

bilgewiper:
...a trick was if it was going to be 80+degrees in the sun we would put the hardner/catylyst in the paint the night before and mix it up good and store in the freezer so it wouldn't go off. Then we would spray the tanker trucks in the sun with just one really thick coat. It wouldn't run cause the metal was so hot that the catylyst would cure the instant the near frozen paint hit that hot metal.
Ethan Ethan, that is about the coolest, most insightfull trick I've ever heard for shoot two-part polyurethane enamels. Thanks.
LO

[wfodude]

Just a little insight....You guys who play with paint should have regular medical exams done including Pulmonary function tests and chest X-rays. My dad who was a long time painter died last year at 63 years old. They attributed all of his health problems INCLUDING the heart failure that killed him to his life in the paint and body shop..I pray you all never face this...

[bilgewiper]

LakesOnly, I have no clue what that stuff costs nowdays. Not so sure I would want to experiment like $$$$$ that now. It was bad enough back then. We found that worked by accident because we had paint mixed up and the air compressor broke down half way thru the shoot and I took the paint home and thru it in the freezer thinking I'll just dump it on some old forklift in the morning. It worked! So we kept doing it.

[K3-River-Rat]

1973 Hondo:
How bad is Imron paint for vocs an would you spray it? Just wanted to point out to everyone that may not have been around "back in the day" when Imron was first put on the market by DuPont back in 1975 or 76 that Imron was in fact the birth of every polyuethane paint on the market today from all your major automotive paint manufacturers...
What the deal was with Imron being offered exclusively by DuPont ONLY and you did NOT see any similar ployurethane paint offered on the market from all the other major automotive paint manufacturers was the fact DuPont obtained a "US Patent" on the actual CHEMICAL STRUCTURE of the Imron/ployurethane paint line....
Because if this DuPont was able to lock themselves in with a legal "patent infingement clause" should any of the other automotive paint manufacturers try to use the same CHEMICAL STRUCTURE/BASE to offer there own line of ployurethane paint which was not possible to do without copying the "chemical make up" of the Imron line...
This special patent infingement clause allows the company who holds it to NOT have to share their product for 20 years!! Which is the actual "reason" you did NOT see ployurethane paint offered on the market from all the other major automotive paint manufacturers until 85/86 and ployurethane was/is "the shit"...
This in turn had given DuPont the upper hand in the automotive paint industry for many years and the 20 year ployurethane paint patent was one of the main "reasons" the DuPont Chemical Co. became such a leader in automotive paint industry (with their Centari acrylic enamel "also" being a popular and frequently used paint) from the mid 70's to some time in the 90's when everyone ELSE was able to play catch up!!!
So for those of you that were not aware of this fact you have just graduated from the Imron/ployurethane automotive paints history class... :D wink
blownschiada:
I have painted many boats in my area.The best system I have found is to paint the boat with a solid color with Chroma One single stage urethane then wet sand with 600 grit, then lay my graphics out and spray them with Chroma Base(or HOUSE OF COLOR for the wild colors),then top coat with Chroma Premier 72400 clear coat. Finish of with a little sand & buff. CHERRY!!!! All the "Chroma" products are DUPONT. Good luck everyone has their own system. I wanted to point some things out as to some of what was mentioned here in blownschiada's post, partially with what he said about everyone having their own system...
What he has explained here is identical to the same method I use when doing a multi stage/color custom paint job with the acception of some of his DuPont paint materials... I use mainly the House of Kolor's kandy colors & bases etc. for the most part...
I wanted to tell you guys with the chemical base on all the ployurethane paints being the same, we custom painters sometimes run into a jamb when were in the middle of a job and the paint supply store is closed :mad: I have run short on catalyst/hardener more times than I care to discuss, don't sweat it if this happens to you...
I have miss-match mixed probable every major manufacturers catalysts into the clears you can even THINK of over the years and have NEVER had a problem just make sure they are for POLYURETHANE...
I even used to put DuPont or PPG ployurethane clear catalyst into the House of Kolor's kandy colors before they changed the mid-coat candy colors to a non-catalized product!! Here again it worked GREAT and it was actually cheaper than the House of Kolor's kandy color catalyst wink I have found over all the years I have worked with ployurethane paints the chemical make-up of all of them is so forgiving they are ALL compatable with each other no matter which manufacturer has put their name on it!!!! You could NOT get away with even mixing the same type of paint from two different manufacturers (especially lacquer based paints) several years back with out it immediatly turning into "cottage cheese" right in the paint gun cup!!!
As far as the dangers of atually spraying Imron/ployurethane, I can tell you I painted hundreds or possibly even thousands of vehicles over all the years (still shooting it to this day) and was never much for wearing a mask and have sprayed this stuff more times than I could ever count without a mask but this shit CAN and WILL kill you if you were to breathe TOO much of it so be careful with it!!!
The way it was explained to me many years ago when I attended a FYI tutorial class on polyurethane based paints was, we were told to NOT spray it without a good mask because of its chemical structure and once it was mixed with the catalyst the human body was defenseless against it to break it down once it was in your body and if you were to breathe too much of it into your lungs the polyurethane paint would collect on the walls of your lungs (aside of the fact the you could drop dead from breathing isocyanates in it on a single paint job alone!) and if the inner walls got a build up on them similar to spraying a light coat of clear over the surface of the car you were spraying, would create a shell on the inner walls and once the catalyst kicked in and started to harden the lungs could no longer flex therefore not allowing you to breathe once the shell of clear hardened up to that point and you would suffocate to death... eek! Who knows?? Maybe I just got lucky on that part of it anyhow :confused:
This has been yet another "POWER POST" brought to you by
the creator of Hot Boat power posting himself ---K3 :D wink
[ December 23, 2002, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: K3-River-Rat ]

[K3-River-Rat]

wfodude:
Just a little insight....You guys who play with paint should have regular medical exams done including Pulmonary function tests and chest X-rays. My dad who was a long time painter died last year at 63 years old. They attributed all of his health problems INCLUDING the heart failure that killed him to his life in the paint and body shop..I pray you all never face this... GEEEEE THANKS :D
I could have used this little tid bit of information
about 20 years ago :rolleyes: eek! :D wink
Seriously guys you should consider taking this advice!!!
I found out the hard way (my life story!) when I had to get a chest X-ray last spring :(
It's pretty much already too late for me but it doesen't have to be for you wink
I was also a smoker all my life!! :rolleyes:

[ole war horse]

Hey Hondo, I had this guy paint my transom with the Imron and he "F" it all up and I had to wait for about three days and wet sanded it all off and them I got out the paint and mixed it up, turned on the exhaust fan, put on a GOOD mask and painted the transom again and it was not hard and just be careful not to put it on to heavy. It turned out real good, I painted the rest of the boat and guys that saw it couldn't believe I did it myself. Just prep it good and take your time and you will be surprise.

[HOSS]

Same here. I shot my Southwind with Imron. It came out awsome. I didn`t clear coat either. Did use a respirator though. Working in shipyards gets you use to it. But I thought it was the easiest shit to spray.
Only paint I new of that required a full suit and fresh air (not that its not nice to have cause all paint aint good to breathe) was the self etching primers. Don`t remember name, but that green shit. Was down wind riding my YZ and the cloud like to knock me on my ass! Yard used it to shoot bare aluminum.
Gotta love those bench racers! They never learn!

[K3-River-Rat]

HOSS:
was the self etching primers. Don`t remember name, but that green shit. Was down wind riding my YZ and the cloud like to knock me on my ass! Yard used it to shoot bare aluminum. I know the stuff you're referring too,
just a whiff of that stuff could clear your sinuses
faster than you could say wow WTF :D wink
Was a self etching anti-corrosion aircraft primer eek!
Hard pressed for use for corrosion protection back in the 80s in the collision repair biz straight out of the aviation biz.. :rolleyes:
One of the more popular brands was made by a co. called "Amer-Flint" (american-flint) that was some nasty shit and also a bitch to work with as it took forever to flash off enough to start laying regular primer/surfacer over, and on cooler days would end up on the floor if you layed it down just a tiny bit too wet :mad:

[sidewound]

Hey everybody,
I am thinking about laying out imron. I will be painting in suckyernutsackup cold weather in my heated garage. I have one stall walled off and heated. Thinking about heating the other 2 stalls with my salamander and using that air to feed my makeshift booth and exhaust the fumes through an outlet. Any thoughts what might perform well under these conditions? Thanks PEACE MAN

[K3-River-Rat]

sidewound:
Hey everybody,
I am thinking about laying out imron. I will be painting in suckyernutsackup cold weather in my heated garage. I have one stall walled off and heated. Thinking about heating the other 2 stalls with my salamander and using that air to feed my makeshift booth and exhaust the fumes through an outlet. Any thoughts what might perform well under these conditions? Thanks PEACE MAN Just make DAMN sure the paint fumes do NOT get over into the area of the open flame on the salamander unless you have a death wish because if there is too much overspray and paint fumes in the air and they get over to that open flame you might find yourself 6 feet under!!! eek! eek! eek! eek!

[HammerDown]

I was always told...using a Salamander type of heater is a no-no...because it puts an oily film on the surface your about to paint...Contaminates the air. Now this may have been with the older style heaters...I would look into that first.
[ December 27, 2002, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: HammerDown ]

[sidewound]

Anyone know the temp variance suitable for spraying imron? The optimum temp.? I havn't got that far yet but have been getting some good input from this post!
PEACE MAN!

[Jbb]

HammerDown:
I was always told...using a Salamander type of heater is a no-no...because it puts an oily film on the surface your about to paint...Contaminates the air. Now this may have been with the older style heaters...I would look into that first. I have used Kerosene forced air heaters and with good results .....That being said ...it was only done before I had access to a booth ...Do yourelf a favor.....Borrow or rent the use of someones booth. Your job will turn out better,you will be safer,and it will be one less thing to worry about while you are painting.When I used mine I was fine as long as it burned K1 kerosene only ...not diesel..? I dont know why but it worked for me ...those heaters are pretty damm efficient ....and dangerous!

[DEL51]

Blownschiada, K3,others, What an informative excellant topic! I have some questions and some comments.I used the centari on my engine block without much prep other than wiping the bare metal with a clean cloth and using alcohol to remove any oil,etc.i purchased 2 spray cans,dispoasable, and applied all of it.To my surprise, it did not burn off around the exhaust ports,water injected headers,and after hot tanking the parts I expected more, than what did, to come off.What can i use to remove the old stuff,"chemically" and when I respray it should I use a primer first. I purchased a 19ft tunnel that has a nice white imron paint job. Can I apply a candy paint to the surface for some nice graphics or should I have some stickers applied.The new breed of stickers seem to be pretty nice, what is you opinion.Finally,I have sprayed gelcoat and was wondering if the danger factor is equal to that of imron. How is imron for engine blocks and heads?Thanks for your time.

[Jbb]

This is a pic of my engine ...sprayed with green epoxy primer and base/clear urethane this picture is after 3 seasons of use.It will last.
Use aircraft stripper to remove old paint ...follow the safety precautions ...nitrile gloves,glasses ect ...Then prime with an epoxy primer and paint!
You can apply candy over a bright white that has been lightly sanded but it looks best over a silver or gold (or both!)base
Its strictly personal preference as to paint or
stickers for graphics...If you change your mind alot ...go with vinyl!
http://www.offshoreonly.com/gallery/data/501/3445dscf0059-med.jpg
Imron will work for blocks and heads, but so will ANY catalyzed auto paint that would be cheaper! and safer (somewhat ) to spray.
I dont think the danger factor of any paint, with the exception of the true polyurethanes, compares with that of Imron. I spray Axon Aerospace poly and I would rate it,Dexter, Amerflint, and the others equally dangerous. Keep in mind Isocyanates are what we are mainly discussing here, and they target the central nervous system, and other internal organs to damage. Any fumes from painting, welding, grinding, buffing, polishing, ect is pretty tough on the lungs.Not trying to scare anyone off ...JUST BE CAREFUL
Ps Here is a link to a header painting lesson I gave at Havasu barneys!
Headers 101.. (http://www.havasubarney.com/reader_projects_detail.asp?BPID=76)
[ December 28, 2002, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: JETBOAT BRIAN ]

[Jbb]

sidewound:
Anyone know the temp variance suitable for spraying imron? The optimum temp.? I havn't got that far yet but have been getting some good input from this post!
PEACE MAN! The nominal variance in temps ..to a degree is controlled by the temp range of the reducer you buy and in some cases the hardner ....For most applications thought you need the object you are painting to be at least 60 degrees to get any thing close to a smooth flow