newbie pump question. Please help. I think I got screwed on a pump rebuild.

[txboatnut]

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Last year my pump started making this terible noise. It is a Berk e pump I think(clean out is outside the boat). So I took it to a shop recomended by a friend. They told me the pump needs to be rebuilt. Not knowing shit about rebuilding a pump I told them ok since I was on the road for my job. Well Tonight I decide to give everything the once over before I put the seats back in and enjoy the summer. I greased the bearing on the front of the pump which looks like it had fresh grease on it. So I moved to the back of the pump to find the two cap screws you guys always talk about thinking I would check the bowel oil. Well it is pretty obvious that the did not take these of or the little plastic cover that goes over the pump. I could not get the cap screws out and they felt really soft and were trying to round off on the corners so I did not push my luck. Also the silicone on the bolts that holds the little plastic cover on looks pretty old. Not like what you would see if new silicone was used. So here is my question. Could the pump have been rebuilt with out accessing the back of the pump? And is there a easy way for a mechanical dumb ass like me to confirm my pump was really rebuilt? Thanks for the help and any advice would be great.
Paul

[txboatnut]

forgot to add it is a Taylor SS

[GlastronGuy]

The noise usually indicates a driveline problem.
Your RPMs going down might be an indication of a rebuilt (tighter) pump.

[txboatnut]

thanks Glastron Guy. I really onnly had it on the water one or two times and the best I could get was 3700 rpm which was about 45 mph. Supposedly he put a AA impellor in during the rebuild.

[Wet Dream]

txboatnut:
thanks Glastron Guy. I really onnly had it on the water one or two times and the best I could get was 3700 rpm which was about 45 mph. Supposedly he put a AA impellor in during the rebuild. eek! eek!
Why an AA? Especially if you're turning 3700? Who told him to do this? What engine? Somethings wrong here.

[txboatnut]

Olds(I know all you guys are laughing)455 Stock as far as I know.

[Wet Dream]

I'm running an Olds 455 and spin mine on an A impeller at 4800.

[txboatnut]

That 45mph was on GPS. I thought it should be faster.

[Wet Dream]

Drop an A in it. You'll get 55+. But you can't run wide open for too long. Much better acceleration too.

[GlastronGuy]

Wet Dream:
txboatnut:
thanks Glastron Guy. I really onnly had it on the water one or two times and the best I could get was 3700 rpm which was about 45 mph. Supposedly he put a AA impellor in during the rebuild. eek! eek!
Why an AA? Especially if you're turning 3700? Who told him to do this? What engine? Somethings wrong here. Agreed. That impeller is way too big. You could possibly even use a B.

[sidewound]

If your concerned about a build, check the shaft for slop and look at the impeller for wear. Pretty simple. Look at the seals. Do they look new? Lemme Know.
Peace Man :cool:
CESAR

[GlastronGuy]

Wet Dream:
But you can't run wide open for too long. :rolleyes:
Luckily this Olds only had to run for 7.7 seconds.
http://www.zaxisracing.com/

[Wet Dream]

I don't ever recommend a B for an Olds, unless you run restrictors, and don't use restricted pushrods. They cut the oil down too much for the springs.

[BK]

Sounds like your tack may be off? :confused:

[Jake W]

I would say that you would need to take off the back of the pump (Bowl) to rebuild it I would take it apart or at least the bowl and see if he put new bushings in the bowl and look at the shaft look for new seals and to se if the imp is new and sharp.Now what did you pay him to rebuild on the pump every thing or just some things?Jake

[GlastronGuy]

Wet Dream:
I'm running an Olds 455 and spin mine on an A impeller at 4800. How much timing and how fast is it?

[IBEDAM4]

What does your invoice list as to the parts replacement????. Have you contacted the person that did the work????
Don't take anything apart until you do this.
Find someone with jet experience to give you a second opinion.
GOOD LUCK

[rmclague]

If you are in texas there is a good chance that you used Mikes pump and speed. If that is the case I can say if he said he did it then it got done. However if you used someone else there are a few things that you can check that might give you some hints.
First if the boat is from texas it would have had more than a few nicks in the impellor, so get under the boat with a flashlight and look up into the intake grate. If the impellor was worked it will be nice and sharp with either fresh grinder marks or fresh paint.
Second remove the hand hole cover and grab the shaft. any play indicates a worn pump and no rebuild. your style of pump could easily have been rebuilt by just pulling the bowl, as that is where all the work is done. I could go on but these things should get you started.
Rob

[Cas]

I'm with IBEDAM4 on this one. I'd try to get another opinion from another pump pro to get a diagnosis. As soon as you touch it, you will assume responsibility for anything that may be wrong, in their eyes.
I also agree with the others that an AA impeller is too big for a stock 455.
There are a couple of people I'd call to get more info.
Jack @MPD (So CA)
Duane @ Hi-Tech (KS)
Walt @Walt's Hot Boat (No CA)
Jim @ Performance Jet (No CA)
I'm sure one of them can and will direct you in the right direction.

[pops1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cas:
[QB] sOUNDS TO ME LIKE ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS CUT THE IMPELLER TO AN "A" THAT WILL PICK YOU UP 400 RPMs OR AN "A/B" THAT WILL PICK YOU UP 600 AS A GENERAL RULE. i DON'T KNOW HOW HARD YOU WANT TO TWIST A STOCK MOTOR FOR AN EXTRA 1 or 2 mph VS A EFFICIENT WORKING PUMP. iF YOU CRUISE A LOT- LEAVE IT BIGGER- YOUR FUEL CONSUMPTION WILL DROP AND SO WILL YOUR CRUISE RPMs- IF YOUR A HARD ON MAX OUT, PUT IT TO A "B" NOW YOUR UP 900 RPMs AND YOU GAINED 3 or 4mph BUT YOUR TWISTING YOUR MOTOR BEYOUND THE TORQUE CURVE AND TRYING TO MAKE HORSEPOWER DO THE JOB (AS YOUR TORQUE IS DROPPING OFF)! Good Luck! DAVE

[GlastronGuy]

pops1:
IF YOUR A HARD ON MAX OUT, PUT IT TO A "B" NOW YOUR UP 900 RPMs AND YOU GAINED 3 or 4mph BUT YOUR TWISTING YOUR MOTOR BEYOUND THE TORQUE CURVE AND TRYING TO MAKE HORSEPOWER DO THE JOB (AS YOUR TORQUE IS DROPPING OFF)! Good Luck! DAVE Sounds like he's saying torque over hp.

[Jake W]

That is true about taking the pump apart dont unless you know what you are doing.But it is not that hard if you ever do take it off it will spill the bowl oil and need to be replaced.You have some good advise hear on what to look for and feel.Good luck PS it is all ways better to know your pump inside and out.Jake

[txboatnut]

Sidewound. I will look at the thing in the next day and see if I got a new impeller and see if there is slop in the shaft.
_________________________________________________
BK,
You could be right on the tach. It was new 2 years ago and is a sport Comp. I will check that this weekend.
__________________________________________________
Jake,
I do not know how to take they bowl off but I will crawl under and see if it looks like I got a new impeller. I really do not see any seals from the out side but I am willing to look if you tell me where to look. I paid this guy 1848.32 for the whole thing. Since what I know about rebuilding a pump would fit in a thimble:)The reciept sayscomplete pump OH r+r engine and upholstrey replace both boots test run on hose. Which I wonder how they did that since I have no water hose T. Greas pump and ujoints.
__________________________________________________
Glastron Guy,
do not know how much timing. I do not have a timing light and there is not a timing pointer. I do have a friend that is a mechanic I can trust so I will have him look at it and let you know this weekend.
__________________________________________________
IBEDAM4
No parst listed on the invoice. I have not called the guy yet but plan to pay him a visit when I am a little more sure about what he did.
__________________________________________________
rmclague,
I was going to use Mike and heard some bad things and this other guy was reccomeneded to me buy someone who had him rebuild his pump. So since I did not want to drive to Houston 450 miles I thought I would use this guy. In hindsight I should have used Mike to be sure the work was done. I will look in the clean out and let you know what I see.
__________________________________________________
Cas,
thanks for the info. I did send a e-mail to Duane. He said to call him if I needed some help or anything at all. So I may ring him up for a A impeller.
__________________________________________________
Pops1,
thanks for the info. I really did not want to turn a stock olds to high but thing I should atleast be able to get to 4500 rpm. This motor just would not go any farther than 3700rpm. But any higher and I guess I am pushing my luck.
__________________________________________________
Jake,
again thanks. I agree there is some great advice here so that is why I asked for help. I have lurked here for a year. I will look at the impellor and go fron there.
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________

[txboatnut]

I forgot to say thanks to everyone that offered help. I really like this boat and want to take care of it. You guys gave me some things to look at and I will let you know what I find.
Paul

[Wet Dream]

Glastron, with this engine I'm at 32* timing and it gps'd at 55 before I let off. My only excuse for that is that the pump is pretty loose. This was with 2 people, full tanks and a few other things in there. My old 11.5:1 engine would spin that pump to 53000rpm, but I think thats what killed it.
[ May 28, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Wet Dream ]

[GlastronGuy]

Wet Dream:
Glastron, with this engine I'm at 32* timing and it gps'd at 55 before I let off. My only excuse for that is that the pump is pretty loose. This was with 2 people, full tanks and a few other things in there. My old 11.5:1 engine would spin that pump to 53000rpm, but I think thats what killed it. I am running 32 total in a deep v, logs, Q-jet and E pump. 62 gps at 4200 - 4400 according to the tach. I think the tach may be off. The pump is tight and has an A impeller.
Are you sure the pump is loose? 4800 is in the ballpark.

[Wet Dream]

Galstron, I'm running a 19' bubbledeck, a 750 Holley, HEI and OT Bassetts. My pump has a lot of cavitation. It was my goal to get it rebuilt this winter, but other things took over. I will go through the engine and pump this winter and produce one hell of a Olds. I would think that if my pump were tight right now, it should lower the revs to about 4500 and have a litte more top end like you have.

[txboatnut]

welp here is the update I promised you guys. I looked at the seal on the back of the bowl and it appears new. I looked at the impellor and am not so sure about it. It has some nics etc but I know the lake levels here have been really low so that does not suprise me. So I did check the bowl oil and it was full. I tried to move the shaft the impellor is on and it did not move. I could not check the timing because there is no timing pointer to check it with. I guess my pump was rebuilt after all. Still not sure about the impellor but I did take some pics of it if any one needs to see them. thanks for all the help and I am still open to suggestions.
Paul