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View Full Version : What would be your first choice, 496, 502, or bigger?



mud duck
05-29-2002, 08:07 PM
In a new jet boat, what would be your first choice of power? A new 496, a 502, or something bigger like a 540 Merlin?
What pump would you use? An American Turbine 309? Or something else?
This would be put in a 20 or 21 foot new boat.
Please don't make this a pissing contest, just honest opinions.

77charger
05-29-2002, 08:15 PM
For a jet boat a built 454 will be fine for me or even a carbed 502.Reason is that there are lots of parts and options to make more hp.
As for a new boat and power for me well lets just say i will be going to the darkside in three years!!!!(21 tunnel and 300x)

beached1
05-29-2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by 77charger:
As for a new boat and power for me well lets just say i will be going to the darkside in three years!!!!(21 tunnel and 300x)
Homo!!
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif JK
I would say in a pefect world a Berk and a LS6 would be fine for me.

Hallett19
05-29-2002, 08:31 PM
Well, froggystyle has a 509 Merlin in his boat (21 Ultra XS), but that thing has nothing out of the hole, he spins the impeller too fast !!! But that baby flies on the top end and sounds like an offshore monster when he passes you up, and you REALLY FEEL that motor when you are cruising and he stomps on it. But a 454 should be more than fine for anything the recreational boater needs.

superdave013
05-29-2002, 08:52 PM
The 496 in my new truck has be nothing but trouble.

DickDanger
05-29-2002, 09:16 PM
What kind of trouble have you had with the 496? I thought that was supposed to be a good setup??? -DD out

canuck1
05-29-2002, 09:18 PM
575ci small block

flat broke
05-29-2002, 09:18 PM
Go as big as you can afford the 1st time around. Nothing sucks more than spending money on good parts for say a 454/461/468 only to find out that when you want to go bigger most of the internals won't be reused. There are some good deals on 540 short block kits if you shop around thatI wish I had known about last year. Talk to a competent engine builder with proven marine experience about how fast you want to go, and then just let your budget be your limiting factor.
Chris

superdave013
05-30-2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by DickDanger:
What kind of trouble have you had with the 496? I thought that was supposed to be a good setup??? -DD out
@ 4200 miles it broke a push rod
It also used lots of oil! I just turned 8,000 miles!
GM says it's normal for it to use UP TO 1 QT every 1,000 miles! That's bull shit to me. Mine's not that bad, it's using a QT every 3,500 or so. My '84 one ton GMC with well over 200,000 uses less oil then my brand new truck!
Oh, now that you've got me going I had trans trouble too! Towing my boat back from Barney's it puked trans fluid all over my new freaking gel coat! They said it had a worn out put bushing that was caused by just normal wear! I told 'em "Gee, parts don't last long on this new stuff do they"
I was born and raised in a GM town but when Toyota comes out with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton I might have to make the switch over to Jap. I can't believe I just typed that.

Havasu Hangin'
05-30-2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by superdave013:
...I was born and raised in a GM town but when Toyota comes out with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton I might have to make the switch over to Jap. I can't believe I just typed that.
While you're at it, you might as well sell the Schiada for a Sea Doo Islandia...
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy25.gif

HavasuDreamin'
05-30-2002, 07:51 AM
I have never heard of any new vehicle using that much oil. You got a LEMON. My condolences.

mud duck
05-30-2002, 08:06 AM
I was just curious if there was a particular engine, that had high torque numbers, could handle high RPMs (6000+), and would last with minor maintenance. GMC based due to parts availability, would be preferred. Also, prabably lighter in weight would be better too, maybe more aluminum used, like in the heads or manifolds. Does a shorter stroke help?
Any thoughts?

Hallett19
05-30-2002, 08:25 AM
there is a simple formula when it comes to making anything go fast
Speed = Money, how fast do you want to go ?

78Eliminator
05-30-2002, 08:34 AM
Hey! That's a direct quote from "Mad Max"!
: )

rivercrazy
05-30-2002, 10:09 AM
There's no replacement for cubic inch replacement

lakesmodified
05-30-2002, 10:46 AM
GM says it's normal for it to use UP TO 1 QT every 1,000 miles! That's bull shit to me. Mine's not that bad, it's using a QT every 3,500 or so. My '84 one ton GMC with well over 200,000 uses less oil then my brand new truck!
Oh, now that you've got me going I had trans trouble too! Towing my boat back from Barney's it puked trans fluid all over my new freaking gel coat! They said it had a worn out put bushing that was caused by just normal wear! I told 'em "Gee, parts don't last long on this new stuff do they"
I was born and raised in a GM town but when Toyota comes out with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton I might have to make the switch over to Jap. I can't believe I just typed that.[/B][/QUOTE]
SuperDave, you don't have to go Jap.... Just go with a proven truck to begin with FORD!!!

jordanpaulk
05-30-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Hallett19:
Speed = Money, how fast do you want to go ?
Or how fast can you afford to go?
And what was with the pissing match comment on the first post?

cyclone
05-30-2002, 12:53 PM
Hey Superdave...do you have the 6.0L motor? GM told me that the lifter clacking i keep hearing in my 2500 HD's motor was normal and not to worry about it. I think the way they put it was that "its an acceptable amount of valvetrain noise." Have you got the same problem?

hoolign
05-30-2002, 12:59 PM
Pretty much all of them do it,my 2000 did it now the 01 does it,gm's explanation to me was the tolerences have been increased to get more engine life! it's piston noise you here,I could have sworn it was in the valve train, it sounded at start up, like it was'nt getting oil to the top right away,I have 35000 km's on this one and it still ticks,nothing they'll do about it!

superdave013
05-30-2002, 01:16 PM
Mine is the 8.1 / 496". Trust me, when your engine BREAKS a push rod you will hear more then a little valve train noise.
They replaced the one push rob and so called flushed out the dibries out of the engine. I asked about the other 15 push rods but was assured they would be fine. My thinking is a new set of 16 push rods could not cost much. They must want to replace them one at a time?
Don't get me wrong, I love my surban. It is very nice, drives and handles great. Runs good now and has shit loads of power. I just don't think I'll get 200,000 out of this one.
About the Fords, I had one. It was a good truck but it had it's share of troubles too. I did buy it new and got 364,000 out of it. It was past tired and I almost gave it to a guy I work with.

mister460
05-30-2002, 01:22 PM
Gee Dave, that sucks! Only 364,000 out of if before it got tired? Fords must be HORRIBLE trucks! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif

beached1
05-30-2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by mud duck:
I was just curious if there was a particular engine, that had high torque numbers, could handle high RPMs (6000+), and would last with minor maintenance. GMC based due to parts availability, would be preferred.
Any thoughts?
A Chevy LS6.

058
05-30-2002, 10:54 PM
A 540-565" BBF...built Ford tough with Ford stuff.

JETBOAT BRIAN
05-31-2002, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin':
While you're at it, you might as well sell the Schiada for a Sea Doo Islandia...
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy25.gif
Bigger,bigger ,bigger my next one will be a 632 Merlin.!!!
HH Did I mention the Islandia has a pool .....and a fountain onboard!!!!!

mud duck
05-31-2002, 11:05 AM
Okay, what is the lightest weight big block made?
When ever tring to gain extra speed, it is always a good practice to shed any weight possible anywhere (interior luxuries, extra gas tanks, people, etc.). So what Chevy (or GMC) based big block is the lightest? Or, is there a point when the torque and horse power produced by an engine, out weighs the actual physical weight of all the parts put together?
I thought someone was tring to put a Cadillac 500 in a jet boat because it was lighter. Did that ever work?
Or perhaps I am getting to far off the main stream here. Just use what has been proven to work, many times before.
Any thoughts?

DEL51
05-31-2002, 09:57 PM
Flat Broke has the best answer, in my opnion.I have gone the 454-468 route. Considered making it a 496. Ended up with a 572 and have room to grow. I would go with a 565-572 to start with.It will save you money in the long run.

Raskal
05-31-2002, 10:16 PM
superdave
did you get H D with 8.1 and alison
i was not to impressed with the alison or the 8 liter
so i got the 6 liter and 4 speed auto. runs great and no prob

RiverToysJas
05-31-2002, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by mud duck:
I was just curious if there was a particular engine, that had high torque numbers, could handle high RPMs (6000+), and would last with minor maintenance. GMC based due to parts availability, would be preferred. Also, prabably lighter in weight would be better too, maybe more aluminum used, like in the heads or manifolds. Does a shorter stroke help?
Any thoughts?
How about a Teague?
RTJas

77charger
06-01-2002, 11:44 AM
Or a pro max 300.

CrazyHippy
06-01-2002, 10:32 PM
or 2...

jet496
06-02-2002, 04:44 PM
I have a 496 HO in my 2001 Ultra Stealth. Have 100 hrs on it with no problems. It screams nicely, but, if you want to build up serious HP you would probably want something else. Personally I'm happy with staying stock & doing 60 mph with this particular family boat.

BlownChevy
06-02-2002, 08:10 PM
a 638 is going into my buddy's eliminator 250 daytona soon... hes contimplating putting his 871 blower on it that is sitting under his computer desk!

Yvettefan25
07-05-2002, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by mud duck:
Okay, what is the lightest weight big block made?
When ever tring to gain extra speed, it is always a good practice to shed any weight possible anywhere (interior luxuries, extra gas tanks, people, etc.). So what Chevy (or GMC) based big block is the lightest? Or, is there a point when the torque and horse power produced by an engine, out weighs the actual physical weight of all the parts put together?
I thought someone was tring to put a Cadillac 500 in a jet boat because it was lighter. Did that ever work?
Or perhaps I am getting to far off the main stream here. Just use what has been proven to work, many times before.
Any thoughts?
The Cad 500 is only 35 lbs heavier than a SMALL block Chevy and gets aproximatly the same gas mileage. That makes it about 85 pounds lighter than the BIG Chevy. The extra 35 lbs. can be cut by putting an after mkt. Alum intake on it. The engine produces more torque faster than the Big block and requires little modification to put out 550 lbs. of torque and 400 HP. The valve train is the weak link, so if rpms are going to be above 5000, then some work will have to be done. There are many performance parts available that make 500 hp cheaper than the big Chevy. I want to build a 90+ mph jet boat with the Cad 500 when the money is right and would love to find pics of one and to talk with someone who has one, or who had one. More info about the cad 500 can be found at www.500cid.com/frames.html (http://www.500cid.com/frames.html)

nmdcb
07-05-2002, 04:40 PM
this part is to superdave013. check your lemon laws. in my state,nm, if you take a vehicle in for the same repair in the first year for the same thing four times it qualifies to have the vehicle bought back from the manufacturer. a certain number of days in the shop in the first year also qualifies. call your state attorney general office they will steer you in the right direction.
as for the motor question,540 or 572,naturally aspirated, 650 to 700 hp, bullet proof all day long!

lakesmodified
07-05-2002, 06:42 PM
I was born and raised in a GM town but when Toyota comes out with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton I might have to make the switch over to Jap. I can't believe I just typed that.[/B][/QUOTE]
Superdave.... Forget that JapCrap, do your self a favor and buy a Superduty Ford!!!

oldsman
07-05-2002, 07:17 PM
if you want a big engine and have a big bank account...650 cubic in olds big block, can't get much bigger than that...

future boater
07-06-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by rivercrazy:
There's no replacement for cubic inch replacement
no, no, no! "there is no replacement for displacement!" damn kids!!!...

future boater
07-06-2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by canuck1:
575ci small block
but can you bore it again? how long before it gets too hot and ruins everyhting? No i am not knocking it just curious?

future boater
07-06-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by 058:
A 540-565" BBF...built Ford tough with Ford stuff.
i love ford, but, when you want to go fast a crate hemi from mopar is the way to go!

future boater
07-06-2002, 12:58 AM
all this cad talk brings up good memories my pops put a 472 cad motor in a 51 ford coupe. that thing straight go it on! thats the first car i ever drove! my dad says go down to the end of the block, turn around get it straight and nail it. like i said it got up and went! the first/only boat i ever bought was an old '61 jupiter w/a 390 cadillac, and a hallcraft v-drive. it was wierd out of the hole it was fine but about 35 the boat twisted. yes twisted, it would track straight but the hull was like on a 45 degree angle. oh anyways the boat was a death trap i sold it for what i had into it. the moral of the story, make sure you can find parts for the motor your dropping in!

future boater
07-06-2002, 12:59 AM
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif
[This message has been edited by future boater (edited July 06, 2002).]

future boater
07-06-2002, 12:59 AM
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif
[This message has been edited by future boater (edited July 06, 2002).]

Budnikjet
07-06-2002, 06:23 PM
If money is no object build a 500 cu in Donavan small block and put in ii, its all alluminum from the block up