Jacuzzi Dilemma

[Omega21]

I'm new here and just wanted to say you guys are teaching me a ton!! Thanks...wish I would have found this board before I bought my boat!! Live and learn I guess :D
Anyway..to the question. I've got a sick 455 (yes, oiling troubles!) in a 21' Omega daycruiser, and a Jacuzzi YJ/B pump. I'm working the 455 over (I'm thinkin somewhere around 450-500 hp or maybe more...but don't quote me till it's finished), and from what I understood from the boards, the YJ isn't gonna work very well.... and from the first trip out on my boat, I'd have to agree. It's a big slug fat turd floatin in the pool & I can't really blame all of it on a stock 455 knockin a little. Almost got outran by a 2 kids in a canoe.
Anyway, picked up Jack @ MPD's phone number off of one of the threads here & called him. He agrees the stock YJ isn't the most effecient choice in the world. He informs me that I've basically got 2 choices to get effeciency up there...an energizer kit, or find a berkeley & get ready to do some glass work. I started checking on energizer kits, and found the American Turbine kit for $1200 new at HiTech Perf Parts.
Anyway, since talking with Jack & HiTech, I went on the search for berk pumps to compare & didn't find much. But, I've come accross about 4 Jacuzzi WJ pumps that are fresh rebuilt & about 1/2 the cost of the energizer kit, 2 even have the place diverters included. From some of the research I've done on the boards, it seems the WJ isn't as popular as the Berk pump, but can easily function as well with a little work.
#1 If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Is saving the $500 worth doing the work to put a WJ in a YJ hole? Or if I'm gonna be doing glass anyway, wait for a berkeley?
#2 Am I gonna have another $600 in a stock rebuilt WJ to make it work like a YJ with an energizer kit?
Any insight anyone could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Todd

[77charger]

The yj you have might be an insert type pump(the golden eagle one)and it is molded into the hull.If you do have this pump the energizer is the ONLY way to go and 1200 sounds good for it and you can add a place diverter to it easily(since you will now have a split bowl)and you will also have a fresh pump.If you go the other route you will have just as much into it plus all your labor too.

[Hustler]

Go with the AT energizer kit. I had jack at MPD do mine over the winter and was flat amazed at how much better it performs. if you can buy the AT kit for 1200 do it because that is a killer price and you wont find it cheaper, take it to jack and have him install it and do his magic. Good Luck

[Omega21]

Hustler- If your boat is the yellow & white daycruiser (the school bus lookin one)...nice ride! We actually printed some pictures of your interior & took them to our interior guy & said "I want this..but forget the leopard skin stuff."
Charger- if "molded in" means glassed into the hull...then no..it's definitely not a golden eagle.
Anyway, If I understand hustler right, $1200 kit + $400 place diverter + little parts, cables, shipping, this-n-that = $1800-$1900?
So...the kit would be worth $1200 more than a fresh WJ with the place diverter included it?
Not tryin to be argumentative, just askin questions. I really appreciate the help.
Todd

[Hustler]

I dont think you can bolt a WJ to a YJ intake, maybe someone can correct me.
So what you are saying is you dont like the cheetah print? wink

[Omega21]

I wasn't gonna use the YJ intake unless they'd bolt together with no troubles, but I'm not so sure they do. I've gotta fix a transom crack & some hook in the hull this winter anyway so if I go the WJ route, the glasswork around the pump & intake is just one more thing to do. I'm comfortable enough with it, and I've got a cousin who used to glass for bayliner and boeing to get me outta trouble too.
The cheetah print looks great...in yourboat :D don't know how I'd like it in mine..

[Hustler]

well if your going to do glass work anyway I would go with a berk or dominator pump, If you are not planing on all the glass work do the energizer kit.
http://www.rivertoys.com/featuredboats/featuredgalimages/1974HU4.jpg
I love this pic :D

[Kwicherbichen]

Hustler:
I dont think you can bolt a WJ to a YJ intake, maybe someone can correct me.
Hustler, I think the jury is kinda out on that question. It is very concievable that if you had an adapter ring, corrrect shaft, bearing, and berkley style bowl (or WJ), you could build your own conversion kit.....so to speak. I mean that's really all the it comes down to, an adapter ring. I think 77Charger would back me on this. :D

[Plasticman31]

This is a WJ with an aluminum "A" impeller. The motor that was in the boat with this pump was a 455 Olds that had about 500hp and would turn about 5600 rpm. This was a stage one race pump re-build performed by Walt's Hot Boat service in Modesto Calif. I also have the WJ intake out of the boat. You won't beable to put a WJ in the place of the YJ, the YJ hole is much smaller. I am trying to sell this pump right now, so if your interested please e-mail me and we can talk price. I will pst a few different pic's i have of pump. The pump also includes the tiller rm and reverse gate whch aren't pictured. I had the bowl, nozzel,tiller arm, and reverse gate powder coated as you can see in th pictures.
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Dcp00425.JPG[/img] (http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Dcp00425.JPG)

[Plasticman31]

http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Dcp00425.JPG

[Plasticman31]

http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Dcp00427.JPG

[Plasticman31]

http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Dcp00426.JPG

[Plasticman31]

http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Dcp00428.JPG

[beached1]

You can't bolt a WJ to a YJ intake or install the whole WJ unit in place of the YJ. The intake on a YJ is much bigger than a WJ.
The best bet for your money is getting a energizer kit. This way, you can get a Place diverter, droop if needed and have a more modern pump all together.

[flat broke]

I'm going to disagree based on the fact that he's going to be doing some extensive glasswork on the bottom anyhow. There are always berks on Ebay and the banderlog classifieds. Or if you want brand new squeaky clean, you can order up a new JI berk from CP, give them your yj, and you'll be out the door with a brand new split bowl berk with a diverter for $1995. Then while you're working on the bottom, you just set the new berk intake. While your at it, you might as well do a setback install since you're going to have to move the motor anyhow.
New Berk
$1995 for pump w/core (your yj is an acceptable core)
diverter is included
$????for glass work you planned to do to the bottom of the boat anyway.
Energize YJ
$1200 for kit
probably a minimum of $300 for small parts/labor
$600 for a diverter assuming you buy the Aggressor unit.
Just a little fuel for the fire,
Chris

[77charger]

Kwicherbichen:
Hustler:
I dont think you can bolt a WJ to a YJ intake, maybe someone can correct me.
Hustler, I think the jury is kinda out on that question. It is very concievable that if you had an adapter ring, corrrect shaft, bearing, and berkley style bowl (or WJ), you could build your own conversion kit.....so to speak. I mean that's really all the it comes down to, an adapter ring. I think 77Charger would back me on this. :D this is true all the energizer kit is internals of a berkley type pump as in my case it uses a all berkley rebuild parts,bearings,seals,wear ring, impeller,but from what it looks like the berk bowl you might neeed a lttle mod for the water intake on the bowl.which should be minor.

[Omega21]

Plasticman31: You won't beable to put a WJ in the place of the YJ, the YJ hole is much smaller
Beached1: The intake on a YJ is much bigger than a WJ.
Okay....now which is it? Or are both true & Plasticman is talking about the hole in the transom, not the intake?

[beached1]

Flat, you are right. However, I was considering all the time and money involved. Not to mention the possibility of relocating the engine if needed, etc. If Omega21 is comfy with glass work, then hell yeah, he's much better off glassing in a berk if he can.

[cruser]

Wideopen545 has a berkley JGR for sale on another thread here. Asking $1500 for it. I know nothing about it but you might want to contact him.
cruzer

[beached1]

Omega21:
Plasticman31: You won't beable to put a WJ in the place of the YJ, the YJ hole is much smaller
Beached1: The intake on a YJ is much bigger than a WJ.
Okay....now which is it? Or are both true & Plasticman is talking about the hole in the transom, not the intake?Not too sure about the transom hole but the intake on the YJ (axial flow) is bigger than the intake for the WJ (mixed). Try this web site from NOMERA (the people that now own the rights to Jacuzzi. This should bring you to the parts listings. You might be able to compare the differences.
http://www.marinejet.com/marine.html

[Omega21]

So the consensus is if the glass work doesn't bother me, do the berk pump? Yes?
Now..back to the second half of the deal. Why the berk pump over a fresh WJ with a place diverter? Especially at $1500-$2000 berk vs under $1000 fresh WJ? Both will take glass work..both are a drastic improvement over the YJ..both are mixed flow pumps.. and later, if I do get a WJ & grenade it running over PWC parts, I'll put berk guts in it then.
Just an FYI as to how much time I have...boat season will start again in mid May 2003. I'm in north Idaho and our seasons are different here. Most parts of the country have 4 seasons. We do to: snowmobile season, 4 wheeler season, boat season, hunting on 4 wheeler season, & then back to snowmobiles again.

[flat broke]

I'm definitely not the authority on Jacuzzi parts, but I think merely going to the WJ doesn't get you the same performance as a berk. I probably over looked something in the thread, but I don't understand how you are going to get a fresh WJ for 1k. A good rebuild and blueprint job is going to cost close to that kind of money and you'd still have to come up with the pump. As for the WJ being the same as the Berk, it's not. It can be modified, but there is still cost involved. The parts are not directly interchangeable.
Good luck,
Chris

[Omega21]

flat-
Sorry..I was kind of fuzzy.. 2 of the pumps I've found are fresh rebuilds that have never ran. One has a diverter, one doesn't. They're both on a shelf in local marina. Another is from a boat that caught fire & the guy's selling what he can from the boat. It was rebuilt & not ran very long before the fire. The last one is plasticmans...which is pasted right in this thread. When I said fresh..I had the first two pumps in mind..but I guess it sort of applies to the other two as well.
The 2 local pumps are $500, and $750 (div incl). The fireboat one is $550 + some shipping (div incl), and plasticman's is under $1k if I remember his ebay ad correctly.
Berk guts- I was thinking along the lines of wsuwhr's machining with his WJ for berk stuff, an energizer kit, or aggressor's got some $800 deal. I know the berk parts won't straight out bolt into a WJ.
Definitely like your website!
Todd
BTW, I do appreciate everyone's input & their insight. I don't want to come accross like I'm lookin to get the longest thread here, I just want to be able to make an educated decision based on more than 1 person's opinion. I really do appreciate it.

[flat broke]

Gotcha on what you're saying about the pumps. BTW be carefull with any aluminum products that have been in fires. Thanks for the compliments on the site, I'm behind on updates, but thats pretty much always the case anymore. Honestly, I would give Jack the same options you've laid out here and see what he says. He won't tell you what to do, but he'll give you solid input based on unbeatable experience. After you're done talking to him, you'll probably be able to figure out which path best suits your needs.
Not trying to be rude, but one last thing to think about... Winter is coming and you might be able to find a better hull with the pump you really want. I'm not slammin the Omegas, but I know of 2 guys that have put lots of work into their bottoms, the stringers/floor, and the boat in general to get the results they wanted.
Good luck,
Chris

[flat broke]

Gotcha on what you're saying about the pumps. BTW be carefull with any aluminum products that have been in fires. Thanks for the compliments on the site, I'm behind on updates, but thats pretty much always the case anymore. Honestly, I would give Jack the same options you've laid out here and see what he says. He won't tell you what to do, but he'll give you solid input based on unbeatable experience. After you're done talking to him, you'll probably be able to figure out which path best suits your needs.
Not trying to be rude, but one last thing to think about... Winter is coming and you might be able to find a better hull with the pump you really want. I'm not slammin the Omegas, but I know of 2 guys that have had to put lots of work into their bottoms, the stringers/floor, and the boat in general to get the results they wanted.
Good luck,
Chris

[Kwicherbichen]

If it were me, and it will be me soon, I'd get the "Step Up Kit" from Aggressor or the "Energizer" kit from American Turbine. This is why I would skip the glass work route;
1.) Your YJ pump is basically already "set back". That's the way they are put in.
2.) The intake housing for the YJ is bigger than the Berkley and you will be able to capture/load water into your pump better.
3.) Unless you are good at glass work and already have a reason to be working on the bottom besides a pump install I'd avoid it.
Try to think of your money and time with this in mind; you won't have to do glass work, you won't have to move the motor, you won't have to buy another pump...just a kit. Since that kit is less expensive you will be able to recover you investment better down the road. Not to mention, the kit provides virtually the same results. GET THE KIT or just stick with what you have.

[beached1]

flat broke:
I'm not slammin the Omegas, but I know of 2 guys that have had to put lots of work into their bottoms, the stringers/floor, and the boat in general to get the results they wanted.
Good luck,
ChrisMake that 3 guys if you weren't talking about me. It takes alot of work to make an Omega jet boat run well. I had to rip out my floor, glass in full stringers, remove the hook from the bottom, and reshape the area behind the intake. Mine is a 77 21' bow rider with a 427 BBC and a MPD prepped WJ.
As for opinions on whether to glass in a WJ or a Berkley, do the Berk. Parts are much cheaper and it takes less HP to push a Berkley to go as fast with a Jacuzzi WJ. As for buying a WJ with a Place diverter installed on it, make sure the nozzle has been bored out of the bowl and matched to the Place diverter adapter. Otherwise you will have two nozzles in line = Bad.
[ September 11, 2002, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: beached1 ]

[beached1]

Kwicherbichen:
1.) Your YJ pump is basically already "set back". That's the way they are put in.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the Jacuzzi Golden Eagle that is the "set back" pump. The YJ is not.

[Omega21]

I completely agree about the Omega hull..it defintely isn't the finest piece of workmanship. I've already worked over the stringers and the floor, and fixing the hook issue/bottom paint is next. Somebody liked beaching this boat in the past...there's no gelcoat on the keel. I know this isn't the easiest route to a fast boat, but I've got time & work slows up for me during winter anyway. It'll give me something to do.
Maybe after it's done I'll haul it to Havasu this spring for a little runnin around.
Todd

[Bouhone]

I've got a wj in my Spectra 18 that's in dire need of a rebuild. I've been tossing around the idea of doing either doing the American Turbine energizer kit or the Aggressor "hop up". I know going the Aggressor route is cheaper, but what would be the performance difference between the 2? Does anyone know????
Thanks

[beached1]

Bouhone, in your case I think your money would be better spent just having your pump rebuilt and reworked by a good pump shop. An enegizer kit would run you about 1500 to 1700 bucks. I sent mine to MPD where they reworked the impeller (the weak spot in the WJs) along with the rebuild for about half of that.

[Bouhone]

Thanks Beached, I think what I'm going to do is talk to MPD about either reworking my current impeller or machining in a berk impeller. Let me ask you a question, what kind of performance increase did you see after he did your impeller???

[beached1]

The difference in performance after MPD reworked my pump was well worth the $. The acceleration was the biggest improvement. it really felt like the engine gained a bunch more more HP. The cool thing about Jack at MPD was he talked me out spending more than he felt I needed to. I brought my pump to him and was prepared to pay him to either work in a berkley impeller or a whole WJ energizer kit. This would have easily taken me for 1700 to 2k. But instead he suggested doing what he did which is pretty much explained above for half of that. He talked me into spending less $! I'm glad he did. I guess it isn't such a bad move. He gained a loyal customer.

[77charger]

beached1:
Kwicherbichen:
1.) Your YJ pump is basically already "set back". That's the way they are put in.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the Jacuzzi Golden Eagle that is the "set back" pump. The YJ is not.the golden eagle is the set back model.(this is the one i have)but have energized it and mpdized also.BTW kwicherbichen i MIGHT be selling boat(looking for another) and might part it out and the pump will be up for sale.has all the goodies will let you know if i decide to get rid of!

[Bouhone]

Beached, I totally agree with the choice you made. I can't see spending almost 2k to do something I don't need to do, when I can rework my impeller for 1/2 the cost. I could only see going the energizer route if my pump/impeller was trashed.

[flat broke]

beached1:
flat broke:
I'm not slammin the Omegas, but I know of 2 guys that have had to put lots of work into their bottoms, the stringers/floor, and the boat in general to get the results they wanted.
Good luck,
ChrisMake that 3 guys if you weren't talking about me. It takes alot of work to make an Omega jet boat run well. I had to rip out my floor, glass in full stringers, remove the hook from the bottom, and reshape the area behind the intake. Mine is a 77 21' bow rider with a 427 BBC and a MPD prepped WJ.
Nope, you were one of em :) luckily it sounds like Omega21 already took care of the other structural problems, so he's just left with the hook.
Chris

[Omega21]

yeah...already did the structural stuff. Now that I've ran the boat, I've found things I wish I would've done differently, but it'll run till I get the desire to itch like mad again.
And I think I've made a decision on what to do with the pump. I talked with Jack about one of the pump I was most interested in & e-mailed him a few pics. He believed it would need some work that I didn't see. Although I was really bummed to hear it, in the long run, I'm glad he said what he said. The other 2 most 'economical' WJ's are sold. Leaving one in a local marina...which although it's a good price, buying a diverter for it is gonna be another $500 or so...which brings me within 3 or 400 dollars of the Energizer kit.
Anyway, unless I come accross another good deal on a WJ or a real cheap berk turns up soon, I'm going to probably go with the American Turbine kit with a place diverter.
Thanks for everyone's input. I do appreciate it!
Todd