Hey hbjet

[Blown 472]

When the bottom of your boat was done, how did he know to go as forward as he did, was it the wetted area?? also what is the speed coat some sorta teflon or something??

[HBjet]

He usually only goes 4ft infront of the transom, but once the boat was flipped over he didn't like the area just in front of where he usually stops, so he decided to work on that too. When at WOT, 4ft or less on the keel is about all there is in the water on this hull. The speed coat is some sort of graphite. He sprayed it on and it basically drys upon contact. Then he runs over the surface with a towel smoothing everything out, but when you feel it, it has the feel of really fine sandpaper. The speed coat is a lacqer base where everything else he used was resin based. Over time the speed coat slowly comes off, and if you just rub your hand on it a few times, your fingers look like you have pencil led on them. I'll see if I can find out more details about the stuff in a few days for you. Jeff wanted me to call him after this weekend.
HBjet

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

HBjet:
He usually only goes 4ft infront of the transom, but once the boat was flipped over he didn't like the area just in front of where he usually stops, so he decided to work on that too. When at WOT, 4ft or less on the keel is about all there is in the water on this hull. The speed coat is some sort of graphite. He sprayed it on and it basically drys upon contact. Then he runs over the surface with a towel smoothing everything out, but when you feel it, it has the feel of really fine sandpaper. The speed coat is a lacqer base where everything else he used was resin based. Over time the speed coat slowly comes off, and if you just rub your hand on it a few times, your fingers look like you have pencil led on them. I'll see if I can find out more details about the stuff in a few days for you. Jeff wanted me to call him after this weekend.
HBjet I wouldn't beach it anymore with that stuff. I think the point of it is to make the surface rough so it doesn't adhere to water quite as much. You ever notice people sanding the bottom of ski's. Same principle....I think. Did they tell you how long it will hold? I wonder if you could get the same results with sanding the gel coat to a rough finish? idea Probably be alot cheaper too. wink
Omega

[HammerDown]

Rumor has it...a really smooth bottom surface is not the answer, the sany bottom will actuall break up the water tension/adhesion. I knew that with out having a DNE sticker...J-K...lol

[MAXIMUS]

Sounds like the only real way to tell if it helped would be to bring your MPD Cheerleading ass up to parker & test it against a family jet that was built for comfort! :D Oh you can stay down on "BIG RIVER" but I'll just assume that your trio of amigos is yeller!!! :p Mean while the real men will be braving the high seas up at parker... :rolleyes:

[Blown 472]

Interesting, you better be careful going into no wakes and stuff, that boat is going to skate for awhile.

[Hal]

Its called speed coat. Its a graphite coating and leaves the bottom very smooth and slippery. Does'nt seem add much to your top speed though..
http://www.rexmar.com/images/page136.jpg
[ July 30, 2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Hal ]

[HBjet]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
I wouldn't beach it anymore with that stuff. I think the point of it is to make the surface rough so it doesn't adhere to water quite as much. You ever notice people sanding the bottom of ski's. Same principle....I think. Did they tell you how long it will hold? I wonder if you could get the same results with sanding the gel coat to a rough finish? idea Probably be alot cheaper too. wink
Omega Yeah, I'll be doing more anchoring from now on. I asked Jeff how long will it last since he said it comes off, and he said I won't need to worry about adding another coat for as long as I have the boat..... I was thinking, what if that's forever? Anyways, he didn't seem to concerned.
Max, I've been to Parker many times, but I want to enjoy driving my boat, and work to drive it. I know you like Parker and I have no doubt your 21 is fast. But it would be cool if you came down to BR.
HBjet

[Truth Be Told]

Well, since most of the boats racing NJBA have speed coat on them, I doubt it hurts speed, and might just improve it. It hides scratches better than a shiny painted bottom at the very least.
As for running Parker, HBjet has ran that boat at Parker exclusively until this year when he went down there. I'd call his boat a river cruise boat by any definition. Full interior, 600lb. hull, and plenty of shiny crap to make it too pretty for a race only boat,what more do you want?
While sounding like a cheerleader (not intended), trust me, just putting out what are the facts. Try to disprove them.

[cyclone]

sounds like Maximus has a chip on his shoulder. Parker is nice, if you like to supercross your boat across two-three foot chop on any given weekend. I myself am a recent big river convert. One trip was all it took to make me realize that the water is flat and there are fast boats there that are actually drag racing....you can keep Parker all to yourself and the thousands of other people there on the weekend. If i need to hit the bar, ill make the 10 minute drive at night time.

[MAXIMUS]

No chip on shoulder, just razzing HB... Maybe it sounded wrong :confused: I am a certified mpd cheerleader & damn proud of it! If Jack was running for president he would get my support!!! :) Now no need to defend HB as we are all having fun right :confused: I would love to come down to some smooth water however I'm with a big group & am obligated too hang there... You guys have fun & we will hook up eventually! :)

[MAXIMUS]

P.S. a little birdie told me that Tom & his alki place craft will be down at blythe... If you guys get a chance check it out. Tom is a nice guy who loves to talk jets! :)

[MAXIMUS]

Hey RD how about the cervesa's amigo???

[Bense468]

maximus have you seen toms boat? Its a river boat too wink
He is down below the dam though. So he would have to tow up there, or you guys would have to go down there. I know cyclone has seen the boat.

[LVjetboy]

I'm thinking, how does anyone here claim to know rough is better than smooth? Think about it. Where is your proof?
Do you know for a fact that a rough surface produces a fluid boundary layer with less resistance than a smooth surface in the Reynolds numbers our hulls deal with? Do you understand what causes laminar to turbulent flow transition and the effect on water friction? I doubt it. I also doubt those who claim to "know" that a smooth, or rough surface for that matter, is the best. Prove it. What amount of roughness?
Until then, debating rough vs smooth is all "technical" bench racing.
jer

[cyclone]

dave you know i love your pops house,your hospitality and hanging out there. get rid of half the boats and i'd boat there every weekend. I didn't bust my ass to make my boat capable of going fast to not be able to run it flat out every chance i get. Its just not possible at Parker with all the other boats there.

[schiada96]

Ruff vs smooth surface my boat sure feels faster coming around the corner at Foxes,you know where the water allways has a 1 foot chop. wink

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

LVjetboy:
I'm thinking, how does anyone here claim to know rough is better than smooth? Think about it. Where is your proof?
Do you know for a fact that a rough surface produces a fluid boundary layer with less resistance than a smooth surface in the Reynolds numbers our hulls deal with? Do you understand what causes laminar to turbulent flow transition and the effect on water friction? I doubt it. I also doubt those who claim to "know" that a smooth, or rough surface for that matter, is the best. Prove it. What amount of roughness?
Until then, debating rough vs smooth is all "technical" bench racing.
jer have you ever water ski'd? Water sking is using the same concept of a boat. right? If you have any experience water skiing you would know that "roughing up" a set of skis makes them free up from the water and allows for better control. I know my buddy uses 220 grit on the bottom of his. Like I said this works for skis, may not have the same effect on a boat.
Omega

[MAXIMUS]

cyclone:
dave you know i love your pops house,your hospitality and hanging out there. get rid of half the boats and i'd boat there every weekend. I didn't bust my ass to make my boat capable of going fast to not be able to run it flat out every chance i get. Its just not possible at Parker with all the other boats there. Cyclone you just haven't figured out yet how to read the white caps...lol I am not that interested in going fast all the time. I like the idea that if "I had too" I could! wink I like the social atmosphere & FOXES! Plus I have many friends up & down the river that I enjoy seeing. One of these days I'll make it down that way.
Bense Tom is a friend of mine that I met maybe 10yrs ago through a mutual friend. I know the boat very well. Tom was helping me with my set up when I was struggling in the 80's. :)

[cyclone]

Cyclone you just haven't figured out yet how to read the white caps...lol I am not that interested in going fast all the time. I like the idea that if "I had too" I could! I like the social atmosphere & FOXES! Plus I have many friends up & down the river that I enjoy seeing. One of these days I'll make it down that way.
ah now therein lies the difference between you and I. like to drive as fast as possible whenever i can. My boat doesn't have a stereo, not that i could hear it over the engine, sits low enough in the water to get swamped by other boats when floating down river, and in general does two things well; turn and go fast. I put it together for one thing and one thing only-to go fast. I can read the white caps just fine-ive been boating the river and Havasu since I was 5yrs old, but that doesn't mean i enjoy driving over them. No disrespect to Parker, it just doesn't suit my boating lifestyle.

[MAXIMUS]

You need a cocktail! :)

[cyclone]

i more day to go. :D

[Bense468]

Maximus he has been trying to get me to take it off his hands.
As far as the water subject. Put 2 pieces of glass together. Then pull them apart. Now put some water in between them and try taking them apart. Its more difficult right? If that glass was roughed up it would be easy. Speed coat is the way to go.
This whole concept is why rounded sides are better on a boat then flat sides. You would not want to catch a roller at speeds and it stick to the side. Anyway thats my 2 cents.

[LVjetboy]

Back to surface roughness and water drag. A couple of points. Rough water or "light chop" is not the same as a rough hull surface in terms of drag. Also, how rough is speed coat? Does it reduce drag by being "rougher" than other coatings, or does it reduce drag by less surface tension compared to other coatings? Two different things.
The truth not always as simple as it seems, or as simple as boating urban legend has it.
Water speed, amount of surface contact, surface roughness or smoothness, orientation of roughness, type of coating and surface tension, all have influence on drag, so I'm not sure just sanding a hull gives the best results. Although I do beach mine from time to time :)
If someone thinks they know the answer, maybe they should tell the Navy quick. They spend a lot of our tax $$ and more brain power than this forum studying both experimentally and analytically the effects of surface roughness, coating water adhesion, etc. on hull drag...and still have few answers, although more than we do.
Jetboy says, "Sometimes the truth comes not to those who "know" the answer, but to those who ask the right questions."
jer
[ July 31, 2003, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[miller19j]

LVjetboy:
Back to surface roughness and water drag. A couple of points. Rough water or "light chop" is not the same as a rough hull surface in terms of drag. Also, how rough is speed coat? Does it reduce drag by being "rougher" than other coatings, or does it reduce drag by less surface tension compared to other coatings? Two different things.
The truth not always as simple as it seems, or as simple as boating urban legend has it.
Water speed, amount of surface contact, surface roughness or smoothness, orientation of roughness, type of coating and surface tension, all have influence on drag, so I'm not sure just sanding a hull gives the best results. Although I do beach mine from time to time :)
If someone thinks they know the answer, maybe they should tell the Navy quick. They spend a lot of our tax $$ and more brain power than this forum studying both experimentally and analytically the effects of surface roughness, coating water adhesion, etc. on hull drag...and still have few answers, although more than we do.
Jetboy says, "Sometimes the truth comes not to those who "know" the answer, but to those who ask the right questions."
jer You are absolutely correct! Very few of the Speed Theories that many people use have ever been quantified. Most of these theories are boating myth and lore and have never been actually proven.

[Danhercules]

I like going WOT in chop. It makes 60 feel fast as hell!!!!!!!!!! When its smooth, 60 feels like 35. Gimme the rough stuff untill I get a fast boat like cyclones!!!!!!!!!
I could not even imagin anything over 70 in chop. Screw that!!

[cyclone]

dan-o you went about 70mph through the chop in laughlin...a bit faster when it was nice and smooth. :D

[burbanite]

miller19j:
You are absolutely correct! Very few of the Speed Theories that many people use have ever been quantified. Most of these theories are boating myth and lore and have never been actually proven. Yep.
If I were to hazard a guess though I'd probably follow this line of thinking...
LVjetboy:
...or does it reduce drag by less surface tension compared to other coatings?

[schiada96]

Why do the unlimited hydros run speed coat?

[Danhercules]

cyclone:
dan-o you went about 70mph through the chop in laughlin...a bit faster when it was nice and smooth. :D Ok, that HAD to have been in the ride you gave me in your boat. Plus, didnt you see my white nuckels?? eek! That was fast!!!! (to me anyway)
Am I gonna have to change my name?? :confused: I kinda like "Dan-o" :D

[cyclone]

lol nah i'll knock it off. :D

[Danhercules]

I dont care, I think its funny. I keep sayin "Dan-O to myself. I am very easly entertained!! smile_sp My name is dan-o, having fun, my name is dan-o, I pass a lot of gas!! my name is dan-o, I have a slow boat- my name is dan-o
smile_sp smile_sp http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/467dancin_banana.gif http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/467dancin_banana.gif http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/467dancin_banana.gif smile_sp smile_sp
[ August 01, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Danhercules ]

[LVjetboy]

Why do the unlimited hydros run speed coat? I think because it works.
jer

[victorfb]

Hey Dan-o, you not only keep yourself entertained, you keep all of us heavily entertained aswell. dig them friggin dancin bananas.... shootin ya 5 stars for that one.
cmon people, lets get dan-o his stars back... :p
[ August 01, 2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: victorfb ]