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bigq
03-11-2006, 09:03 AM
I don't get the whole hybrid thing when we could go this route and eventually go 100%. What am i missing?
Who needs hybrids when you’ve got corn?
According to General Motors, bio-ethanol – or more specifically, cars able to drive using either gasoline or a mixture of gasoline and ethanol – is a viable way to significantly reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. General Motors cites several of its vehicles as examples of the fuel’s effectiveness, especially its Saab 9-5 BioPower Concept, introduced at last month’s Los Angeles Auto Show, and the new 2007 Chevrolet Avalanche, which debuted at the recent Chicago Auto Show. The Saab 9-5 is equipped with a 2.3-liter turbo engine that produces 310 horsepower and 325 lb. ft. of torque – 25 percent more than a gas equivalent – and is able to accelerate to 60 mph in under six seconds. When powered by gasoline, GM says that performance times are significantly slower, and emissions are significantly higher. That’s some fast-moving corn, to be sure, and while the 9-5 Aero is a concept, Saab already is the first luxury automaker in Europe with a bio-ethanol model, its 9-5 2.0t BioPower production model, which went on sale in Europe last year. General Motors likes Ethanol as an alternative to gasoline because it’s a fuel source that would be virtually transparent to drivers, and is less costly than other methods of reducing oil consumption, such as the development and manufacture of a full hybrid powertrain for mass-produced cars, or the development of a hydrogen-based fuel cell systems. Ethanol fuel is normally produced from the sugar and starch in corn. Unlike gasoline, its consumption does not raise atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) because emissions during driving are balanced by the amount of CO2 removed from the atmosphere, through natural photosynthesis, when crops for conversion are grown. To ensure acceptable performance, ethanol is blended (85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline) and sold commercially as E85 fuel. As E85 fuel has a much higher octane rating than gasoline, it enables engine systems to perform at a higher rate. Hardware modifications needed to handle E85 fuel include more durable valves, valve seats and the use of ethanol-compatible materials in the fuel system, including the tank, pump, lines and connectors. The Saab BioPower vehicles can use either gasoline or E85 fuel thanks to a Tritonic monitor system that gauges fuel quality and automatically makes adjustments for the type of fuel used.
Critics say that while E85 has potential, the price of a gallon will dissuade many from using the fuel, and the simple lack of E85 filling stations make it problematic for anyone outside a few concentrated Midwestern areas. GM would like to change that, and are putting into place a much broader ethanol initiative that will make up to nine 2006 models E85 capable from Chevrolet and GMC, creating a total 1.5 million vehicles on the road that take E85. Add to that recent efforts by Ford to develop a competitive E85 initiative, and the momentum seems toward ethanol seems to be growing. General Motors is also working with Chevron Technology Ventures and Pacific Ethanol to develop a project in which the State of California would use between 50 to 100 GM bio-ethanol vehicles in a fleet of work vehicles, to be used in Northern California and the Central Valley.

MagicMtnDan
03-11-2006, 09:10 AM
It's why the price of sugar has been surging.

Ziggy
03-11-2006, 10:10 AM
One of the reasons GM bought SAAB was to tap into the highly progressive engineers they have at SAAB........guess who developed the now common Oxygen Sensor(lambda probe)???? Yup, that was SAAB back in the 70's.
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Watched the Amazing Race last week and they were having to make ethanol from raw sugarcane....pressed the sugarcanes juice out then distilled it to get the ethanol.........which they had to pour into the gastanks..

Tahiti350
03-11-2006, 10:15 AM
If there's more power to be had by using E85 then what would it take to run a dn E85 set-up in a boat?? Would it have to be "on computer", ie EFI, or could it be made to work acceptably with a carb.

LHC30Victory
03-11-2006, 10:54 AM
Also looking for a diesel/electric hybrid what with the diesel being more fuel efficient than a similar gas motor to start with.....
Then we could take that technology and make a boat :rolleyes:
Oh, wait that would be a ww2 submarine, wouldn't it? :rollside:

Ziggy
03-11-2006, 11:24 AM
Also looking for a diesel/electric hybrid what with the diesel being more fuel efficient than a similar gas motor to start with.....
Then we could take that technology and make a boat :rolleyes:
Oh, wait that would be a ww2 submarine, wouldn't it? :rollside:
I heard something about diesel engines having to be capable of running bio fuels in Ca. within the next few years. Dual fuel capablitiy. Emissions needing to be drastically reduced.

mickeyfinn
03-11-2006, 06:17 PM
All the major manufacturers have had vehicles on the market in other countries for years that burn either alcohol or gas. I think the tree huggers and the emmissions give them trouble here. Either can meet the emmissions but being able to run on either makes it difficult to meet the standards on a vehicle that is set up to burn either at anytime. These Flex fuel vehicles are marketed in South America with no problems, but don't have to meet the same emmission standards. They can put one fuel in the tank on the top of another.

ROZ
03-12-2006, 12:55 AM
If there's more power to be had by using E85 then what would it take to run a dn E85 set-up in a boat?? Would it have to be "on computer", ie EFI, or could it be made to work acceptably with a carb.
Cogswell marine in san diego has a h.o. boat motor running on e85...

antonmies
03-12-2006, 02:47 AM
One of the reasons GM bought SAAB was to tap into the highly progressive engineers they have at SAAB........guess who developed the now common Oxygen Sensor(lambda probe)???? Yup, that was SAAB back in the 70's.
Actually it was Volvo who developed oxygen sensor in conjunction with Bosch. Their 1978 200 -model was the first car equipped with (their called) Lambda Sond (Oxygen sensor) and closed loop mixture adjusting with K-Jetronic
It's a shame though that GM (GuanoMotors?) isn't investing to Saab anymore after they bought Saab. Their models (9-5 and 9-3) are pretty old concepts already and all they do are facelifts. I'm afraid that Saab will disappear as a brand AND a product... Truly a shame IMHO..
E85 sounds good though because of it's higher octane level. It has less energy than pure fuel but they say that the mileage is pretty same between E85 and gasoline burning cars. But I guess that the differrence will come out in boats because boat motor works "full load" all the time...

G-Body
03-12-2006, 10:05 AM
If there's more power to be had by using E85 then what would it take to run a dn E85 set-up in a boat?? Would it have to be "on computer", ie EFI, or could it be made to work acceptably with a carb.
I can`t say I have ever heard of anyone running it with a carb (except for long enough to sneak a car through emissions :rollside: ) but I think you could do it. Heres a site to find stations at.
http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
And some info in running it in EFI motors.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358361&page=1&pp=20