Dyno'd my new motor at Westech today

[HBjet]

Well, my new motor is finished and she was put through the paces today at Westech Performance. You know, that dyno that all the non believers think gives bogas numbers!
Well, I don't have the print outs yet because they are on disc at my engine builders, but I will have them tomorrow when I go to drop the motor in the boat. Here are a few numbers that stuck in my head though.
Disclaimer: The numbers I'm about to post are off the top of my head. I will back them up or correct them tomorrow when I get all of the print outs.
Now that's out of the way!
6300rpm it made 732hp
5500rpm it made 702hp
5800rpm it made 669ft.lbs.
4500rpm it made 622ft.lbs.
All of this was on 91 Octane "Pump Gas" (the kind you buy at the pump of a Circle K)
The motor is a 454BBC, 60 over, 4.25" stroke, Iron Chevy heads (990's) with some very nice port work done to them. SRP Pistons, Comp Cam valve train, Hydrolic Roller, Edlebrock Victor Ram Tunnel Ram which was port matched, Holley 750HP Double Pumpers, and a SCAT crank and H Beam rods. Air temp was between 76 and 83 through out the day, and the water temp was 110 degrees!
Oh and it was assembled by DNE Motorsports Development, which is in Costa Mesa, Ca.
Here are a few photos!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20newmotor001.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20newmotor002.jpg
The last run we made, we hooked everything up as it would be in the boat. We used my Mech. fuel pump, and ran the fuel through my fuel regulator, and the numbers where backed up!
Also, some other good news, I got my interior back today, and I didn't have to wait at all. It was sitting there for me when I drove up.
So, today was a good day for HBjet!
Ok, now let all of the "No Way", "That's Bogas", "I'm not buying it because I couldn't make my motor do that" begin :D
HBjet

[MikeF]

:D :D :D :D
I want to see it RUN! :cool:

[HBjet]

MikeF:
:D :D :D :D
I want to see it RUN! :cool: Me Too. In the boat that is!
I might be going to the lake tomorrow, but I don't know what time....
HBjet

[dossangers]

Looking good and i believe you. should feel real good under your right FOOT!!! WHAAAAPPPAAA!!!! :D :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Nice velocity stacks!

[77charger]

Havasu Hangin':
Nice velocity stacks! now we are going to hear jordy say the stacks make more power :D
Randy it looks like you are going to be in need of an heritage bronze impeller B cut(you know the one that jack sells the legend copy) :) oh forgot you prob have one by now.You better get to installing if you want to leave by fri morn.cant wait to se it run this weekend.hope it works very well

[Havasu Hangin']

77charger:
...now we are going to hear jordy say the stacks make more power...Looks like the extra HP is from the "speed tape" to me.

[Johnwithjm]

Congrats on your new motor HBjet it looks great. Not bad numbers also. If your in the area swing on by the shop so I can take a look up close. Did you get that trim you needed?

[novaguy]

Awesome! Just out of curiosity, how much horsepower were you anticapating on making? Did it meet or go beyond your expectations?

[ChetCapoli]

oringinally posted by HBJet:
6300rpm it made 732hp
5500rpm it made 702hp
5800rpm it made 669ft.lbs.
4500rpm it made 622ft.lbs.
The motor is a 454BBC, 60 over, 4.25" stroke, Iron Chevy heads (990's) with some very nice port work done to them. over 700hp with cast iron heads.....only in California!
Oh and it was assembled by DNE Motorsports Development, which is in Costa Mesa, Ca.Geez HB...i dont think anyone on this board knew that. OH.....and thanks for the great info!
Ok, now let all of the "No Way", "That's Bogas", "I'm not buying it because I couldn't make my motor do that" begin :D
YEAP...and i'll be the first to acknowledge that too!

[ChetCapoli]

novaguy:
Did it meet or go beyond your expectations? I'm sure it went well beyond....and so did the pricetag too :D ! HB's got it though right buddy?
CHET

[Johnwithjm]

Gee I guess my over 800 number are fake also. Oh yeah mine is a pump gas deal also
[ June 18, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Johnwithjm ]

[Jake W]

Look what you did HBjet you woke up Chet agine. argue
Let the bickering begine.Jake

[Duke]

im getting popcorn, this will be a long one...
oh and, it looks good, nice numbers too
[ June 18, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Duke ]

[Hotcrusader76]

Nice looking motor Randy. Your motor looks almost identical to mine, minus a few horsepower of course. :D
Very impressive numbers BTW for pump gas. Thank god for roller cams.
~Ty

[MikeC]

WOW! Nice job DNE & HB, but I think what Chet is saying is, cast iron heads and a "FRAM" oil filter!!! Oh yea, what is that thick white spacer under your carbs? Is that one of Jet Stoodely's new styrafome dealies?
See you on the river!
MikeC

[Cs19]

congratulations hb. Everything looks great! It was well worth the wait, your gonna have a good summer it looks like. :)

[hack job]

iam with mike c spend the money and get a better oil filter. the motor looks good!!!! and those numbers are great so you will be looking to run a 100 then! wink

[HBjet]

Thanks everyone! That oil filter was only used for a few runs. When we changed the headers to my headers, we also changed the oil filter to a K&N one and the oil. I just happen to take the photos in between the process.
That spacer is plastic (I don't remember what kind, but I'll find out for you) and the reason for having a 1" plenium spacer is because those Edlebrock tunnel rams have a very short plenium area compared to a Dart.
Hey John, maybe I'll stop by tomorrow if I have the time, we'll see.
Novaguy, Dave was shooting for just over 700hp, and Jack estimated 725hp. So it did what we wanted, and it did go beyond my expectations.
ChetCapoli.... How did I know you would be posting on this tread. Do me a favor, and let just keep this civil between us. Since you know so much about engine building, and could probably teach Dave at DNE who has been doing this for over 20 years a few things. Please explain why 700+hp is not possible (unless your in California)
Chet, since your motor makes 701hp and your boat runs 87mph, do you think I will get to 89mph with 732hp?
Thanks everyone! I'm pretty happy about this deal, and it didn't break the bank either, I just saved my pennies for a while....
HBjet

[HBjet]

hack job:
so you will be looking to run a 100 then! wink It sure looks that way!
Thanks Tyson!
HBjet

[Hotcrusader76]

HBjet:
That spacer is plastic (I don't remember what kind, but I'll find out for you) and the reason for having a 1" plenium spacer is because those Edlebrock tunnel rams have a very short plenium area compared to a Dart.
HBjet That's why I am going to run 1.5" spacers. This should help out that area just fine. In a perfect world the spacer I have wouldn't be aluminum, it should be wood or plastic, better on heat control.
Either way, killer looking motor. Looks identical to mine, black, chrome, polish...LOL
~Ty

[Bense468]

Nice looking setup. I like those headers jet hot coated.

[bordsmnj]

congrats on the motor HB.looking forward to seeing it. must be a bitch to install a motor into the boat with a boner in the way! :D

[77468sleekcraft]

BITCHEN SETUP NOW YOU SHOULD COME UP MY WAY AND WE WILL HAVE TO RUN EMM AHHH????? :D : ...

[matt1]

Damm I thought you too just shriveled up and died.
argue

[Windy]

bordsmnj:
congrats on the motor HB.looking forward to seeing it. must be a bitch to install a motor into the boat with a boner in the way! :D LMAO...see you guys on the water.

[sanger mike]

HEY HB! the motor is looking good. I knew chet would show up. im taking the sanger down to ming this sunday. jack is going to take the boat from there. :cool: it should be at the shop on monday. are you going to ming this weekend!. we had a big week up here at CFW. i would say it was a legendary weekend. :D

[jweeks123]

hack job:
those numbers are great so you will be looking to run a 100 then! wink if there's going to be a HB speed pool, i pick 94, max! who's holding the bucks? chet?
jw

[Blown 472]

This is the actual power made that day. Why would we display the uncorrected
power? We want to educate you.
ALL dyno figures you read about in ads, magazines, etc. are CORRECTED.
Is this bad? No. The corrected figures represent the true potential of the
engine if you were to have a barometer of 29.92, temp at 70 degrees.
Any variation changes the power made. The engine can make even more power if
you get into super air conditions.

[THOR]

..

[THOR]

I was going to post something on the previous post, but I am speechless. Can I borrow your motor this weekend. I would be curious how my boat runs with 700+ ponies.

[beached 1]

HBjet:
Chet, since your motor makes 701hp and your boat runs 87mph, do you think I will get to 89mph with 732hp?
HBjet LOL!
Nice job randy. Looks sweet!

[Hustler]

Way to go Randy. Dave you did an awsome job on that motor and I cant wait to finish mine!! I was completley amazed at the quality of of Daves engine building and to have numbers to back up that pretty motor is just SWEEET!! Great job Randy and Dave.

[HavasuDreamin']

That is a great looking setup HBJet. Just please tell me you are not leaving the velocity stacks on it. wink :p What compression ratio did you end up with to be able to run 91 octane?
Post a picture or two when it is all back together. :cool:

[Badboat1]

Lookin good It should haul ass.Glad to see it turned out real nice and made good #'s.
BB1

[HBjet]

thanks again everyone, and thanks Hustler for comming out there yesterday (god know's I need witnesses with this board)
The stacks where ran in the dyno. We ran with them, and without. We ran with Dave's headers (with sensors) and then we ran with mine.
as for the comp. ratio, it's 91 compatible!
HBjet

[Blown 472]

What was the measured power?

[Jetboatguru]

BS RANDY!!!!!!!!!!
You are BS, Westech is BS, Steve Brule is BS, Dynos are BS, it's all BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
Motor looks great!!! Not as dreamy as Miss HBjet wink but nice nonetheless.

[dossangers]

First cyclone now hb jet everybodys jealous because they dont have a new motor or the $$$$$ or the------ http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t012/T012859C.jpg

[superdave013]

Yea! I get to see it this weekend where it counts. At OP6 baby!
Ha ha OP6 talk might just high jack this thread!
congrats Randy!
990 heads worked real good for me too. And I didn't have a stroker crank. You didn't say what rods you're using.

[Jordy]

77charger:
now we are going to hear jordy say the stacks make more power :D The numbers speak for themselves... Looks good Randy. :D

[78Eliminator]

Nice Randy. You realize that you basically have TWICE the motor you used to have. Be careful.

[Taylorman]

Looking good. Who ceramic coated your Bassetts?

[Liberator TJ1984]

The motor is a 454BBC, 60 over, 4.25" stroke, Iron Chevy heads (990's) with some very nice port work done to them. SRP Pistons, Comp Cam valve train, Hydrolic Roller, Edlebrock Victor Ram Tunnel Ram which was port matched, Holley 750HP Double Pumpers, and a SCAT crank and H Beam rods. Air temp was between 76 and 83 through out the day, and the water temp was 110 degrees!
My motor is mostly the same but w/solid roller and std.bore
8/71 @ 6# boost only making 650HP
SS A+ Impeller @ 5600rpm ( do the math )
So if i diss the blower and go tunnelram I'm looking at a 100HP increase??? jawdrop
j/k H.B. nice moty

[Jet Hydro]

Waz up wit dat duct tape?? Oh yea it makes 50 more HP with it, doesn't it... wink
Good luck on you stab at 100mph! I dont think you`ll see it but good luck, just the same.

[Windy]

Jet Hydro:
Waz up wit dat duct tape?? Oh yea it makes 50 more HP with it, doesn't it... wink
Good luck on you stab at 100mph! I dont think you`ll see it but good luck, just the same. Hey Slowy...we been expecting you wink

[BK]

Looks great! Dont know why anyone would ? the #'s and why HB would feel the need to lie about them? Not that anyone has to post #'s to begin with but seing what him, Cyclone and others have done and the results is very informative and appritiated by MOST of us and hopefully some can learn from it? Isnt that what this board is supposed to be about? :confused: Good luck HB, hope your happy with your results!! :)

[mbrown2]

Engine looks great Randy...good luck with her...

[HotHallet]

Right on Randy! Motor looks awesome and should make the boat really move! Congrats! I will be in Parker covering the Magic Boats Regatta this weekend. Leslie is coming with me and we plan on leaving tomorrow morning. I understand you all will be up there for OP6C. Look me up! Cell #' 310-344-2555 or 714-709-9162.
Peace Out

[revndave]

730HP=LOW 90s.MY BUDDIES HAVE BAHNERS WITH 700+ ON NOS.THATS WHERE THEY RUN.GOOD NUMBERS.HOPE TO SEE YOU OC GUYS OUT AT THE SLIME PIT.LOL

[LVjetboy]

Bogus!
:)
Liberator, your rpms seems to match your dyno pretty good. Maybe swap that blower for a T-ram...should do it. That and a really long return spring.
Geez, another century jet. HBjet, very nice engine and great numbers. Figured something big in the works. Looking forward to your speed as always...especially since our speed/power matched so closely before. Wouldn't be surprised to see high 90's, maybe triple digits with your setup tweeked? Glad to see someone besides me with hyd rollers. :) Be safe!
jer
[ June 19, 2003, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[565edge]

Congrats,Just wondering what lifter you guys used on the hyd roller,Just think you could of got a another 150hp with those afr heads?What did those 990's flow?If you need a gps i will be glad to supply one.

[Jet Hydro]

Originally posted by MissHBjet:
Hey Slowy...we been expecting you wink Well I sure didn't want to let you down pretty lady wink

[lakesmodified]

ChetCapoli:
oringinally posted by HBJet:
6300rpm it made 732hp
5500rpm it made 702hp
5800rpm it made 669ft.lbs.
4500rpm it made 622ft.lbs.
The motor is a 454BBC, 60 over, 4.25" stroke, Iron Chevy heads (990's) with some very nice port work done to them. over 700hp with cast iron heads.....only in California!
Oh and it was assembled by DNE Motorsports Development, which is in Costa Mesa, Ca.Geez HB...i dont think anyone on this board knew that. OH.....and thanks for the great info!
Ok, now let all of the "No Way", "That's Bogas", "I'm not buying it because I couldn't make my motor do that" begin :D
YEAP...and i'll be the first to acknowledge that too! I'll have to agree, great looking motor, but from the numbers coming from Westech, I'm starting to become suspicious. Don't get me wrong HB, if those numbers are correct, maybe you found the Miracle Engine Builder... Check out Chevrolet's ZZ572 Race Crate motors specs:
572 C.I.D. - 12:1 Compression Crate Engine Technical Information
Horsepower……………………………………720 @ 6250 RPM
Torque………………………………………………685 Ft. Lbs. @ 4500 RPM
Max. Recommended RPM…………6750 RPM
Compression Ratio…………………12:1
Block…………………………………………………New! Sportsman Tall Deck Bowtie Gen VI
10.200" deck height
Bore……………………………………………………4.560"
Stroke………………………………………………4.375"
Crankshaft……………………………………Forged 4340 steel
Connecting Rods………………………Forged 4340 steel, H-beam style, Shot peened
Pistons……………………………………………Forged aluminum
Full floating wrist pin
Piston Rings………………………………Plasma-moly rings
Camshaft…………………………………………Mechanical roller
Valve lift: .714" I, .714" E
Duration @ .050" 266º I, 274º E
Lifters……………………………………………Mechanica l roller tappet
Cylinder Heads…………………………Aluminum rectangular port
118cc combustion chamber
Intake Valves……………………………2.25" Stainless steel
Exhaust Valves…………………………1.88" Stainless steel
Valve Springs……………………………Dual valve springs
1.567" coil diameter
2.050" installed height
230 Lbs. seat pressure
Spring Retainers……………………Hardened chromemoly steel
Rocker Arms…………………………………Aluminum roller rockers, 1.7:1 ratio
Push Rods………………………………………High performance one piece
Intake Manifold………………………Aluminum tall deck single plane
4500 series carburetor
Carburetor……………………………………1095cfm, mechanical secondary
Rear Main Seal…………………………New! One-piece design
Windage Tray………………………………New! Screened and louvered
Damper………………………………………………High RPM torsional damper
Distributor…………………………………Multiple spark discharge
Ignition Timing………………………36º total advance
Spark Plugs…………………………………R42XLS
Fuel……………………………………………………Race fuel
You're producing 12 extra ponies with 91 fuel, hydraulic roller, less cubes, lower compression and finally iron heads... HMMMMMMM :D
[ June 19, 2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: lakesmodified ]

[Jet Hydro]

Oh Boy... This is gona get good !!!! Pass the pop corn Please :)

[novaguy]

It's called Experience Eliminates Experiments

[LVjetboy]

LakesMod,
Let's think about this. You post a detailed list of specs...forged this, forged that. Floating wrist pins, hardened chrome-moly spring retainers, one-piece rear main seals, high RPM damper, multiple spark discharge distributer, R42XLS plugs...yada yada yada.
So what's really important for power? Let's condense that crate engine bs to power essentials and focus...
Aluminum vs. iron heads?
I'm thinking metal type drives total advance w/o detonation. 36 degrees in your crate engine example with AL heads vs. HBjet's unknown timing? Was his dyno test at less than 36 degrees? Until you know that, head metal advantage up in the air.
Or is compression king? 12:1 in your crate engine vs. HBjet's 10:1? (Just a guess)
Two points higher compression good for about 50 hp w/those cubes. But wait, better head flow on HB's part may compensate for that 50 hp...to the tune of 80 hp? So then how are you comparing engines? Do HBjet's heads flow the same as that crate engine, less or more? Head flow seems important.
Not to mention different cam profiles...lift only part of the equation.
Even with the crate engine's exotic race gas compression ratio...not something you'll find at your local marina, that crate engine may not perform as well?
So I don't see a conclusive comparison here. I'm no engine guru, but from what I've read in Hot Rod magazine, even small variations from tested engine build specs yield significant changes in tested hp. So posting a crate engine, with unknown head flow and cam profile characteristics, then concluding HBjet's numbers are bogus? Not sure about that. Could be a stretch.
I'm thinking central and east coast dyno's need recalibration for all the sweat humidity in the test room as they worry about west coast power. :)
jer
[ June 19, 2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[565edge]

LV jetboy,You need to quite jibba jabbin,you make no sense!Lets see over 70 more cubic inches,2 or more points more comp,both got rect port open chamber,ones aluminum ones not,I know what a good set of 990's can flow,The list goes on!So did he test it today?

[565edge]

Heres the 91 octane motor.Heres a pump gas one. 572 C.I.D. - 9:1 Compression Crate Engine Technical Information
Horsepower……………………………………620 @ 5500 RPM
Torque………………………………………………650 Ft. Lbs. @ 4500 RPM
Max. Recommended RPM…………6000 RPM
Compression Ratio…………………9.6:1
Block…………………………………………………New! Sportsman Tall Deck Bowtie Gen VI
10.200" deck height
Bore……………………………………………………4.560"
Stroke………………………………………………4.375"
Crankshaft……………………………………Forged 4340 steel
Connecting Rods………………………Forged 4340 steel, H-beam style, Shot peened
Pistons……………………………………………Forged aluminum, Full floating wrist pin
Piston Rings………………………………Plasma-moly rings
Camshaft…………………………………………Hydraulic roller
Valve lift: .632" I, .632" E
Duration @ .050" 254º I, 264º E
Lifters……………………………………………Hydraulic roller tappet
Cylinder Heads…………………………Aluminum rectangular port
118cc combustion chamber
Intake Valves……………………………2.25" Stainless steel
Exhaust Valves…………………………1.88" Stainless steel
Valve Springs……………………………Dual valve springs
1.540" coil diameter
1.800" installed height
197 Lbs. seat pressure
Spring Retainers……………………Hardened chromemoly steel
Rocker Arms…………………………………Aluminum roller rockers, 1.7:1 ratio
Push Rods………………………………………High performance one piece
Intake Manifold………………………New! Aluminum tall deck single plane
4150 series carburetor
Carburetor……………………………………850cfm, mechanical secondary
Rear Main Seal…………………………New! One-piece design
Windage Tray………………………………New! Screened and louvered
Damper………………………………………………High RPM torsional damper
Distributor…………………………………H.E.I.
Ignition Timing………………………36º total advance
Spark Plugs…………………………………R42XLS
Fuel……………………………………………………92 Octane

[565edge]

I wonder what hbjets heads flow on a 4.310 bore and what the gm aluminum rect port flows on the 4.560 bore?Bigger the bore the better it makes it flow!I had a 500" ust like hbjets i sold for $2500,same crank,rods but it head 13:1 comp with ported gm bowties,I never dynoed it but i'll gaurantee it only made around 600-650hp.that gm motor is a good stroke bore combo!Anyways,motor looks good hbjet,Hope it works for you.

[40oz'nHO's]

That dyno at Westech does not lie. When I changed the freeze plugs on my 351w in my 94 f-150, I decided to see how much power this motor made with a 160,000 miles on it. I took it over to Westech and made a few pulls. I could not believe it, it made 475hp at 5500rpm and 520ft lbs of torque at 3200rpm. Dyno's don't lie. I can,t wait to see what my grandma's Cadillac is going to make.

[TIMINATOR]

Gee if I was going to spend the bucks to get my engine dyno'ed,I'd want to have the biggest H.P. numbers I could get (just for the bragging rights),I'd find the most liberal dyno I could, just like the magazine article guys. HMMMMM still never been passed by a dyno, even if they were all calibrated the same. I just want to know what the BOAT runs.....P.S. are the California RADAR guns calibrated by the dyno guys? Just some random thoughts,I could be wrong. I also realize that the gravity from the mountains might have somthing to do with it. Whatever.... I'm just mad because the only dyno I can afford says Dominator on it, I tune for the max R.P.M. and it runs what it runs.

[LVjetboy]

Others free to judge jibba jabba. No sense huh?
Think about it mister engine guru? The first crate 12:1 compared to your second crate 9.6:1 About 70 hp. The first crate 1095 cfm compared to your second crate 850 cfm, good for about 18 hp. The first crate .7 lift compared to your second crate .6 lift...good for about 10 hp. 70 + 18 + 10 = 98 hp... about 100 hp? Thus 720 vs 620. So the first crate 100 hp more. Easy enough to figure. But what does that prove?
Still no valid comparison to HB's head flow or cam profile.
Consider more cubic inches useless unless the engine breathes. Thus my comments on head flow and cam profile.
Nothing magic here just numbers.
jer
[ June 19, 2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[djdtpr]

Well to this date there are only about 2.6 billion different combinations that make hp,but what really matters is when u get in the boat and u get to stand on it it performes the way u hoped it would as far as getting to dyno it well that is cool if u have acces to one near by.The only people that will be happy or even truly believe what it makes power wise is u and your engine builder so to hell with it go out and have fun. wink

[LVjetboy]

Timinator,
I doubt HBjet cares about dyno numbers for bragging rights, I know I don't. If you'd spend bucks for a lie, then a waste of bucks I'd say. I'm guessing most jetters care about top speed not engine rating...what's the point in bragging 700+ hp then only going 85 mph? None.
To me the dyno's all about measuring your engine's true power so you can predict performance...as in your jets top speed...anything else ($$ for engine hp braging rights) is bogus.
jer
[ June 19, 2003, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[Beavertim]

Not that I want to get into the middle of this, but I decided to excercise my desktop dyno just for the heck of it and here's what it shows. 572 BBC with the CR, cam, valve, etc. specs shown in the post: 741 HP @6500 and 706 ft-lbf @ 4500, both a little optimistic. I ran HB's specs (what was listed anyway) 4.31 x 4.25, tunnel ram + 750 carb, assumed 10:1 CR, used same cam as in the 572, used fully ported rect port heads in both cases. The results; 696 HP @6500 and 613 ft-lbf @ 5000. If the 750 carb is replaced with a 1100 (I don't know if DD assumes dual carbs on tunnel rams or not) the numbers jump to 735 HP @ 6500 and 630 ft-lbf @ 5000.
So what does all this mean? If you believe desk top dyno for comparative purposes, HB's dyno numbers seam very reasonable. The big difference between the two motors is the much higher torque of the 572. It stays above 660 ft-lbf from 3500 to 5500 RPM, perfect for a car. HB's torque stays above 600 ft-lbf from 4500 to 6500 RPM, perfect for a jet boat (this is predicated on HB's cam being close to what was run in DD). Interesting results that show you cant alway just compare HP numbers. How much and where torque is made for the application is what is really important.
OK, I've sai enough, you can all flame me now!

[Ian]

Congrats HB, you should be happy with those numbers. I'm sure you'll see mid 90's with that combo, hope you got a lifeline and some ballistic shorts. Also I'm sure the aluminum heads on those chevy crate engines flow pretty well, if you talk to most head guys I think they'll agree 990's are good heads (that's what we run), but even a good set of ported and polished 990's can't compete with a good set of today's aluminum heads

[Squirtcha?]

40oz'nHO's:
That dyno at Westech does not lie. When I changed the freeze plugs on my 351w in my 94 f-150, I decided to see how much power this motor made with a 160,000 miles on it. I took it over to Westech and made a few pulls. I could not believe it, it made 475hp at 5500rpm and 520ft lbs of torque at 3200rpm. Dyno's don't lie. I can,t wait to see what my grandma's Cadillac is going to make. Thems some good ass numbers 40OZ. Let us know what Grandma's Caddy pulls will ya?
Congrats on the new power plant HB. I'm sure it'll haul the mail for ya just fine. If I remember right, you were running 80 something before all the pump stuff n new motor?
[ June 19, 2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[LVjetboy]

No flames here Beaver. DTD like other analytical models a good tool if you use it right. I think one of DTD's strong points not so much absolute numbers, as showing relative changes. As you found, HBjets numbers certainly possible (according to DTD) depending on some key assumptions...my point above. If you don't know the flow specs, you can't say no way. DTD is just another tool, like real dynos, to predicting (or measuring) power. And if you know your power, you can predict performance.
The bottom line? What happens at the lake when you stand on it, like djdPC says.
Until then, a dyno can help tell me where I'm at and where I'm going. Just another tool, if used right can make a difference in how fast I go when I stand on it...the bottom line. So in my opinion, not a waste of money. And to me, debating dyno accuracy and why or why not a dyno gives true numbers is both interesting and worthwhile.
jer

[MikeC]

Beavertim, I have to agree! These are Jet Boat motors, we don't install RV cam's anymore (hello!), (thanks to the Real Jet Boat shops).
You guy's are thinking mid 90's. That would be great, but considering BN's SW runs 92ish in the 1/4 mile with 650 hp (dyno'd by MPD/DNE)....... What do ya's think 100 more ponies will do?
Just be careful HB, take it slow your going to be flyin!
PS: @75 - 85 your eye's water, @ 85+ your face starts to hurt.
Salute

[HBjet]

Hey everyone... We didn't get to run it today, but I will be running it in 12 hours. I had a long day today, and I need to wake up in 4 hours to get ready for the river.
So, when I come back, I'll post what the boat did, and I'll feed you guys a little more info on the motor!
HBjet :D

[Taylorman]

40oz'nHO's:
That dyno at Westech does not lie. When I changed the freeze plugs on my 351w in my 94 f-150, I decided to see how much power this motor made with a 160,000 miles on it. I took it over to Westech and made a few pulls. I could not believe it, it made 475hp at 5500rpm and 520ft lbs of torque at 3200rpm. Dyno's don't lie. I can,t wait to see what my grandma's Cadillac is going to make. Freeze plugs made all the difference. Just think if you would have used aluminum freeze plugs instead of cast iron. LOL. Thats some funny shit.
Just joking guys. HB, has your motor been broken in on a test stand or are you going to break it in in the water? Good luck and be careful.

[Blown 472]

No measured power numbers huh??

[ChetCapoli]

Beavertim:
The big difference between the two motors is the much higher torque of the 572. The BIG difference is the IRON on top and ALSO the CAM. Of course ol HB left those specs out for some reason....hmmmm...games..games...games... :D I'm only going to say this once, THE EXHAUST PORT ON A CAST IRON HEAD IS JUNK! PERIOD! It robs power i dont care if warren johnson ported the ****in thing. It will never flow or make numbers like an aluminum head.( I take that back, you might find a guy to cut it completely out and weld something in it's place...maybe thats what was done. Lotta money in CA that gets spent foolishly i notice)
Hey luxurious(LV),
Go read some more books will ya please? Those guys could sell you urine for lemonade and you wouldn't think twice to put it in your blender to make a drink for gods sake. Starting to look like you going to sell that other kidney and go on the machine....make a spot for it in the boat yet? OOUCH!
I figure ol HB's gonna run 95mph first couple trips out...and of course with all the MONEY he's got into that boat(not as much as lv boy of course)...HAS TO RUN in the triples for sure especially with the FASTEST v hull ever made.
CHET
[ June 20, 2003, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: ChetCapoli ]

[Liberator TJ1984]

So the Drama is set.... eek!
Dyno # verses the real deal=????
Hope they are right HB
Post all run info. so we can do the math :p
and like stated earlier a LifeLine setup should be seriously considered...be careful

[Blown 472]

No drama here, just want to see the measured power numbers not the corrected.
If you go to the gear head forum and look at the "pontiac" thread I started you will see where he shows and explains the corrected vs measured hp.

[revndave]

WHO CARES ABOUT HP.I HAVE 900+ ON 91OCT. IN MY BOAT AND IT DONT RUN A 100.ITS WHO GETS THERE FIRST.I'VE RAN 100MPH BOATS AND BEAT THEM.HAVE FUN THIS WEEKEND.BOAT IS STILL FOR SALE!

[HavasuBarney]

Hope to see you on the water HBjet! :D
It doesn't matter who gets there first either, what matters is that your on the water instead of on the computer.
Oh yeah, **** you Chet! :D

[wrightnow]

Correct if I'm wrong, but I thought the purpose of a dyno was for tuning. Allowing the builder to make changes (jetting, timming) and see a true reading as to what differance it makes.

[Liberator TJ1984]

revndave:
WHO CARES ABOUT HP.I HAVE 900+ ON 91OCT. IN MY BOAT AND IT DONT RUN A 100.ITS WHO GETS THERE FIRST.I'VE RAN 100MPH BOATS AND BEAT THEM.HAVE FUN THIS WEEKEND.BOAT IS STILL FOR SALE! :D I'm just stirrin'the Pot :D
Still got them Blower Restraints ???

[HavasuBarney]

wrightnow:
Correct if I'm wrong, but I thought the purpose of a dyno was for tuning. Allowing the builder to make changes (jetting, timming) and see a true reading as to what differance it makes. OK Wrightnow, the purpose of Dyno is to piss people off and make them think your boat is really much faster than it is. :)
That's why I chose a Purple Dyno suit and the name Barney, works for me everytime! :D This Dyno still can't sing or even hold a tune for that matter, I don't know what the hell your talking about!
http://www.havasubarney.com/iB_html/uploads/post-45-45185-Barney_and_copilot_Fester.jpg
[ June 20, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: HavasuBarney ]

[MAXIMUS]

HavasuBarney:
wrightnow:
Correct if I'm wrong, but I thought the purpose of a dyno was for tuning. Allowing the builder to make changes (jetting, timming) and see a true reading as to what differance it makes. OK Wrightnow, the purpose of Dyno is to piss people off and make them think your boat is really much faster than it is. :)
That's why I chose a Purple Dyno suit and the name Barney, works for me everytime! :D This Dyno still can't sing or even hold a tune for that matter, I don't know what the hell your talking about!
http://www.havasubarney.com/iB_html/uploads/post-45-45185-Barney_and_copilot_Fester.jpg Go back to the exciting strap on section!!!!!!!!!!!! & take your purple monkey with you!!! :D I think you have nozzel envy dude... :rolleyes:

[MAXIMUS]

Somebody be sure to let STV know that was not intended for him! :p Also the FATKat familia should not have to take it as well! cry

[wrightnow]

Hey Barney,
It's been awhile, look forward to see you tomorrow....

[HavasuBarney]

Nozzle envy.... oh yeah that's me! :D Just the thought of a hot tub makes me wanna pee! wink
See ya Saturday Wrightnow!
Maxi, see you over in the strap on section. :) I think there might be some crack in that kitty litter, I'm not sure how much longer I can hold back. Still can't believe you are.... pussy! :D

[TIMINATOR]

LVJetboy, why dyno to predict what it will run? If he didn't take the time to dyno it, it would have been in the boat ALLREADY and we would KNOW what it runs! So at that point,bragging rights are all thats left. If bragging rights arent the reason for the spending of the dyno money, why post the numbers? and that dyno money could have been used for better heads or at least gas or beer! P.S. read the Desktop Dyno manual, it ASSUMES an IDEAL port! Me,I tune the old fashioned way,put it in the lake,tune it for max RPM, which happens to be max speed too! and for that $600+ I can buy another intake,roller cam,AND the gaskets to assemble it! Just 1 mans opinion and I could be wrong. :)

[Blown 472]

TIMINATOR:
LVJetboy, why dyno to predict what it will run? If he didn't take the time to dyno it, it would have been in the boat ALLREADY and we would KNOW what it runs! So at that point,bragging rights are all thats left. If bragging rights arent the reason for the spending of the dyno money, why post the numbers? and that dyno money could have been used for better heads or at least gas or beer! P.S. read the Desktop Dyno manual, it ASSUMES an IDEAL port! Me,I tune the old fashioned way,put it in the lake,tune it for max RPM, which happens to be max speed too! and for that $600+ I can buy another intake,roller cam,AND the gaskets to assemble it! Just 1 mans opinion and I could be wrong. :) Or buy a book on how to read plugs??? I was thinking the same thing. :D

[skeepwerkzaz]

DYNO=Waste of time and money.
Step 1- Build motor
Step 2- Put motor in boat
Step 3- Attach boat trailer to tow rig
Step 4- Go to large body of water
Step 5- Launch boat INTO WATER
Step 5- Start engine check for leaks
Step 6- Break motor in
Step 7- Change oil and filter (just drain it into the lake :D )
Step 8- Start motor again, idle away from shore and slowly depress the accellerator all the way to the floor
Step 8- Record GPS and RPM #'s for your own good
Step 9- If someone wants to know how fast it goes, tell them to RACE YOU
Step 10-&*^$- Try to wipe the shit eating grin off of your face, and drink until you convince yourself that you engine has 1000hp and your boat runs over 100
:D

[Just-Jettin]

Iam confused on how people can give so much credit to DNE for his incredible engine building skills on the all IRON little 468, big deal. There is absolutely no magic in this thing, it makes decent power for what it is, there is no hidden speed secrets in one of these 468's, been around for 30 plus years. Scat crank this, and SRP that, it doesnt matter this engine has its limitations for engine building skills, its pretty much a stock engine with 2-750's on it. Granted its a nice LS7 with less compression and another Holley on it, if you get my point. All Iam saying is this is a nice engine that wont break your wallet to put together and will perform well in a ski boat, but thinking tripple digits is being ignorant in that 19' Eliminator V-Bottom. Imagine how much power that thing would of made if Reher and Morrison, or Sonny Lenord would of assembled it, it would of broke the damn dyno.

[Blown 472]

Step 10-&*^$- Try to wipe the shit eating grin off of your face, and drink until you convince yourself that you engine has 1000hp and your boat runs over 100
:D [/QB][/QUOTE]
Hot damn someone else that thinks like I do, cuz I swear that boat gets faster the longer I sit on the lake and drink.

[Cs19]

You guys who are debating this have problems, its all stated right here in this thread. DD makes 40 less hp than the hb/dne motor. Are you trying to say dave cannot increase 40 hp with his own cam profile he designed for JETBOATS? or what about the rest of shit he did to the motor that you do not know about and never will, Do your selves a favor, go out to bakersfield and watch the njba races, i guarantee the dne/mpd guys kick everyones ass all weekend, and for the most part its just some hot rod river motors onj pump gas out there in the dne pits, only a few race only motors. just wait till you see a real motor that he builds like the one that was in risky business or jerry hicks motor which i think is his excels at, its just that not everyone has 80 grand for a motor right now I want to see JUST JETTIN or blown 470 build one to go run with jerry, ya right!The only reason i am just as big of a fan of Dne motorsports as HB and LV is because im over at his shop all the time and i go to every race and i see results! I see kick ass jetboat motors that win. Bottomline. 95% of you kooks have never seen anything in person that dave does, oh maybe the hotrod magazine with the 1000hp motor and what you see here while you sit on your ass. So its an all iron motor for a river boat and its perfect for what hb wants to do with it and its a bitchen motor and is going to haul ass! Dont sit here and expect to see 900 hp out of it and dont say your a better engine builder either cause your not! if you were, you would be building my motor and hbs and lvs too and you would have been working for pfaaf and S.jennings and jack and trd and wherever else he has been and picked up all his tricks- but your not and never will. most of you guys have junk yard motors you built in your garage (just like any one of us can do) but your the fastest shit around on your little shithole lake in missouri or whatever. The only thing you can do is bag on a nice motor like randys cause you cannot have one. You guys piss me off im going surfing. yuk

[Blown 472]

cs19:
You guys who are debating this have problems, its all stated right here in this thread. DD makes 40 less hp than the hb/dne motor. Are you trying to say dave cannot increase 40 hp with his own cam profile he designed for JETBOATS? or what about the rest of shit he did to the motor that you do not know about and never will, Do your selves a favor, go out to bakersfield and watch the njba races, i guarantee the dne/mpd guys kick everyones ass all weekend, and for the most part its just some hot rod river motors onj pump gas out there in the dne pits, only a few race only motors. just wait till you see a real motor that he builds like the one that was in risky business or jerry hicks motor which i think is his excels at, its just that not everyone has 80 grand for a motor right now I want to see JUST JETTIN or blown 470 build one to go run with jerry, ya right!The only reason i am just as big of a fan of Dne motorsports as HB and LV is because im over at his shop all the time and i go to every race and i see results! I see kick ass jetboat motors that win. Bottomline. 95% of you kooks have never seen anything in person that dave does, oh maybe the hotrod magazine with the 1000hp motor and what you see here while you sit on your ass. So its an all iron motor for a river boat and its perfect for what hb wants to do with it and its a bitchen motor and is going to haul ass! Dont sit here and expect to see 900 hp out of it and dont say your a better engine builder either cause your not! if you were, you would be building my motor and hbs and lvs too and you would have been working for pfaaf and S.jennings and jack and trd and wherever else he has been and picked up all his tricks- but your not and never will. most of you guys have junk yard motors you built in your garage (just like any one of us can do) but your the fastest shit around on your little shithole lake in missouri or whatever. The only thing you can do is bag on a nice motor like randys cause you cannot have one. You guys piss me off im going surfing. yuk Yup you hit that right on the head, and I never worked for Ken Thurm race cars building pro stock and super comp cars so what the **** do I know?? I tend to do my own shit as I have more brains then money.
And a simple answer would be to post the measured hp numbers.
OH and one more thing, my junk yard motor 440 cid makes 666hp, no bullshit dyno numbers hard and fast and even you can figure them out.
[ June 20, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Blown 472 ]

[lakesmodified]

cs19:
You guys who are debating this have problems, its all stated right here in this thread. DD makes 40 less hp than the hb/dne motor. Are you trying to say dave cannot increase 40 hp with his own cam profile he designed for JETBOATS? or what about the rest of shit he did to the motor that you do not know about and never will, Do your selves a favor, go out to bakersfield and watch the njba races, i guarantee the dne/mpd guys kick everyones ass all weekend, and for the most part its just some hot rod river motors onj pump gas out there in the dne pits, only a few race only motors. just wait till you see a real motor that he builds like the one that was in risky business or jerry hicks motor which i think is his excels at, its just that not everyone has 80 grand for a motor right now I want to see JUST JETTIN or blown 470 build one to go run with jerry, ya right!The only reason i am just as big of a fan of Dne motorsports as HB and LV is because im over at his shop all the time and i go to every race and i see results! I see kick ass jetboat motors that win. Bottomline. 95% of you kooks have never seen anything in person that dave does, oh maybe the hotrod magazine with the 1000hp motor and what you see here while you sit on your ass. So its an all iron motor for a river boat and its perfect for what hb wants to do with it and its a bitchen motor and is going to haul ass! Dont sit here and expect to see 900 hp out of it and dont say your a better engine builder either cause your not! if you were, you would be building my motor and hbs and lvs too and you would have been working for pfaaf and S.jennings and jack and trd and wherever else he has been and picked up all his tricks- but your not and never will. most of you guys have junk yard motors you built in your garage (just like any one of us can do) but your the fastest shit around on your little shithole lake in missouri or whatever. The only thing you can do is bag on a nice motor like randys cause you cannot have one. You guys piss me off im going surfing. yuk Damn, there's only one thing left for you to do.. Wipe that stuff off your chin jawdrop

[dossangers]

Excuse me i thought i was in the jet boat forum but im in the bench racers major bullshit forum! if you got anything better show it but you dont so shut the **** UP!!

[Liberator TJ1984]

All I know is the guy who built my motor drag races and used to own "The Fugitive Corvette Wheelstander" (still Races) and he also has a dyno less than 2 yrs. old ,latest and greatest
I frequent his shop quite often and have watched motors dyno'ed , it just don't seem right when a similar combo is run it does not come near what big name guys are posting... :confused:
not trying to knock anyone , it would just be cool if the same motor could be tested at say 3 or 4 dyno shops around the country and see what the #'s are wink

[Just-Jettin]

Hey cs19, you might want to read my post again before you get all pissy. I already stated that this is a nice motor for a ski boat and be a turn key deal, hell it would probably work great in a motor home too. My comment was there is no magic in building one of these all iron deals and yes I know what engines DNE does for all the NJBA racers. Just for the record, the motor in Keiths PGJ came from Steve Schmidts camp and then DNE got his hands on it, so dont give him all the credit for that deal. Last time I checked DNE hads 0 engines in a qualifying Pro Stock field, at a NHRA event. DNE is a good engine assembler, but builder, thats a whole different story. Jerry Hicks boat runs very hard but no one in his class UBFJ has a real deal besides him, so he should win. Ron Segni's boat ran extremely well and would battle it out with Joe Lakamp race after race, I think Jim Guthrie does Joes engine's. Anderson's white and green cp is a great running boat, as well as Marty's Stretch Limmo. I believe DNE does all of these jet boat engines and all run respective numbers at Ming, but he is not god and not the only guy who can make power out of a normally aspirated engine. I would love to see one of his engines in a flat PGF or CF and see how he stacks up there, might be a different story, Iam sure of it. CS19 dont assume no one knows what they are talking about or doesnt race or watch the races, we are just probably in a different class at the races but we are always watching and paying attention to what everyone is running.

[*LS7*]

MikeC, Just a correction my motor was only dyno'd at the drags and with the GPS.
But running 92ish and 11.03 ET in production 10 million pound hull and 468ci, IRON HEADS 11.75:1 CR the speed and et numbers are the facts.
All these jealous POS posters need to stfu and let the HULL / Speed / ET, of these motors do the talking.
Randy with the CAM selection he has probably has 30 or so HP more than I even though I have the compression on him.
He will hit 90's and then they will say it was becuase Miss HB Jet G-String was a carbon fiber strand for less weight.
IRON FRIGGIN HEADS IS THE ONLY THING YOU GUYS COULD COME UP WITH <G>.
BTW: Jack and DNE put that spacer in my motor when built 3 years ago.
BN
http://ntrplus.com/garage/BNTakesOff.jpg
http://www.ntrplus.com/garage/boat2.jpg

[HammerDown]

Oh yea...well my Dad can kick your Dad's butt...and if he cant...he'll kick ya in the nuts :D

[Liberator TJ1984]

Well I'm gonna Speedcoat every damn piece of my motor eek! inside and out , headers too idea
Thats how they do it I was told ??? no magic dyno dust just plain ol'speedcoat :D

[Bense468]

Iron heads will retain heat better then aluminumn. So that may be a good thing for a river runner.

[djdtpr]

HEY BENSE NEXT TIME U ARE AT REX MARINE LET TOM KNOW HIS BOAT DOESNT MAKE NEARLY AS MUCH POWER AS HE THOUGHT CAUSE HE IS RUNNING A SET OF 990'S ON THAT MOTOR!

[Jake W]

Hey CS 19 eazy on us Mo guys.I could care less it it was a V6 that made 2000 hp.You guys crack me up.I do not know shit about motors that is why I just polish mine.Good luck HBjet with testing drinking beer and having a good time at OP6 I am evious of any one that gets to go.
Jake

[Bense468]

Will do DJD. 130mph in a RIVER boat doesn't take that much power right?
Oh by the way you can buy that thing for 30K He said he would go a little cheaper for someone he knows.
[ June 20, 2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Bense468 ]

[djdtpr]

Remember hp is reasonably inexpensive how long it will last is what gets expensive!
Bense u know better its a placecraft of corse it hauls ass.Just wait till he throws that piece of shit iron motor away and makes the boat run in the high 130's.He is so far behind time with that old alchy motor.All those with all iron motors in there boats that run 130 say i!!!!!!!!!!
Kinda quit isnt it?
[ June 20, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: djdplacecraft ]

[Bense468]

djdplacecraft:
Remember hp is reasonably inexpensive how long it will last is what gets expensive!
Bense u know better its a placecraft of corse it hauls ass.Just wait till he throws that piece of shit iron motor away and makes the boat run in the high 130's.He is so far behind time with that old alchy motor. No wait till I throw that piece of shit motor that does 130 and make a new one run high 130's in my new placecraft. Wait a minute I forgetting something. OH yeah the 30 grand thing. Just 29 more to go.

[Jet Hydro]

Oh yea... well my mom can kick the shit out of your dad! and if she cant she`ll give him eek! .... never mind :rolleyes:
[ June 20, 2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Jet Hydro ]

[LVjetboy]

Timinator, you may be a great lake tuner, but I'm thinking the dyno's a better place tune and break in a new (and not cheap) engine. Controlled environment, more data, less distractions. I want my engine broke in with an "approximate" tune before dodging jet skiers, idling thru no wake zones, fixing leaks, adjusting header cooling, taking on water from a roller, etc, etc.
Even more, I wanna know where I'm at with power. Just bolt in and head to the lake? Cheaper, quicker, yes. So I get a single point on a mfg. pump power curve with ? accuracy...especially in higher power ranges. Better than nothing, but far short of a complete dyno curve with peak power and rpm. Nice to know for impeller matching and future engine upgrades.
So I don't understand anti-dyno mentality. To me, the dyno's just another tool to improve performance...not bragging rights. I'm glad HBjet posted his numbers so we all can learn. I'd bet others are too, although not all say so. And speaking of numbers, I think those who share numbers like HBjet contribute more to this forum than those who post, "f*ck the numbers, just shut the f*ck up and bring it to the lake."
What do you think?
Most here know the difference between measured and corrected hp. Most here understand there's ways to fudge the numbers. I'm thinking if you don't know where you're at, it's harder to predict where you're going. And if you don't know where you're going, you could spend a lot more than the 600+ dyno run to finally get there.
jer
[ June 20, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[Jet Hydro]

Maybe I should take my old motor to the DYNO shop??? I might end up taking out the blower motor and reinstall ole yeller... To think it was only making around 650hp I was just plane silly ...silly I tell ya
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208P1000795-med.JPG

[LVjetboy]

Maybe you should? Silly or not. Now that HBjet runs faster than you?
:)
jer
[ June 20, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[MAXIMUS]

Jer my Blown 540 is making around 800 hp give or take! Dart 360 heads, solid roller cam, 8.5 comp, 6 psi boost. Spins A stainless anywhere from 6100 to 6400 depending on weather! :) And no it was not built by a shade tree operator? :rolleyes:

[*LS7*]

[ June 20, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: *LS7* ]

[LVjetboy]

Maximus, if I remember, you have a Legend impeller not Berkeley?
jer

[hboldno7]

I love this thread, I hope it goes on forever and ever.

[MAXIMUS]

LVjetboy:
Maximus, if I remember, you have a Legend impeller not Berkeley?
jer Correct! :)

[revndave]

thinking about going

[MAXIMUS]

revndave:
thinking about going That would be a kick! I will be the only squiter in my group of car boats! Need some back ups! We will be down there tuesday night through the weekend! :)

[revndave]

MAXIMUS
SOUNDS GOOD.V DRIVES ARE EASY PREY

[MAXIMUS]

revndave:
MAXIMUS
SOUNDS GOOD.V DRIVES ARE EASY PREY You said it not me! :D

[LVjetboy]

Then your 6100 closer to your 800 estimated (or is it dyno?) hp then I've seen. Unless of course it's really 850 hp. Or not STP. Or your 6100 was at CFW NYD. Are you sand bagn Maximus? I'm thinking...
:)
jer

[TIMINATOR]

Geez guys I wasnt kickin the motorbuilder, just the idea of spending money to dyno it to predict what it would do if he put it in the BOAT on Wednesday instead of on the dyno. Oh yeah then posting the numbers and claiming it wasnt for bragging rights. Tell us how fast it goes and we'll draw our own conclusions, and if it ain't for bragging rights,then DON'T tell us what it runs! God I love this shit!

[Jet Hydro]

LVjetboy YOUR STUPID! http://www.moparstyle.net/forums/images/avatars/147.gif
[ June 20, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Jet Hydro ]

[MikeF]

Jet Hydro:
LVjetboy YOUR STUPID! http://www.moparstyle.net/forums/images/avatars/147.gif I believe that would be......YOU'RE STUPID. :rolleyes: :D

[MikeC]

Stupid!?
HydroJet, take a close look at your own picture of your Jet Hydro Seat! 3ft out of the water, and you think it's fun and run it like that over and over................ That's pretty freaken dum!
LV's PlaceCraft will rock you!
[ June 22, 2003, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: MikeC ]

[Squirtcha?]

Oh my god..........that's funny stuff.
[ June 20, 2003, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[MAXIMUS]

LVjetboy:
Then your 6100 closer to your 800 estimated (or is it dyno?) hp then I've seen. Unless of course it's really 850 hp. Or not STP. Or your 6100 was at CFW NYD. Are you sand bagn Maximus? I'm thinking...
:)
jer Sandbaggin????????? :confused: Who would I be sandbaggin????????? Its a friggin ski boat that I built for my pleasure! I have only raced 1 boat in the last year its been running & I gave him all it had! Come on Jer... I think you be missin the point chief?

[LVjetboy]

Not sandbagn' speed...or your lake race. My comment was about your power. Just to say your corrected power may be closer to the 850 than 800?
jer

[Cs19]

jet hydro has a pretty trick air scoop.

[Ian]

You guys who are debating this have problems, its all stated right here in this thread. DD makes 40 less hp than the hb/dne motor. Are you trying to say dave cannot increase 40 hp with his own cam profile he designed for JETBOATS? or what about the rest of shit he did to the motor that you do not know about and never will, Do your selves a favor, go out to bakersfield and watch the njba races, i guarantee the dne/mpd guys kick everyones ass all weekend, and for the most part its just some hot rod river motors onj pump gas out there in the dne pits, only a few race only motors. just wait till you see a real motor that he builds like the one that was in risky business or jerry hicks motor which i think is his excels at, its just that not everyone has 80 grand for a motor right now I want to see JUST JETTIN or blown 470 build one to go run with jerry, ya right!The only reason i am just as big of a fan of Dne motorsports as HB and LV is because im over at his shop all the time and i go to every race and i see results! I see kick ass jetboat motors that win. Bottomline. 95% of you kooks have never seen anything in person that dave does, oh maybe the hotrod magazine with the 1000hp motor and what you see here while you sit on your ass. So its an all iron motor for a river boat and its perfect for what hb wants to do with it and its a bitchen motor and is going to haul ass! Dont sit here and expect to see 900 hp out of it and dont say your a better engine builder either cause your not! if you were, you would be building my motor and hbs and lvs too and you would have been working for pfaaf and S.jennings and jack and trd and wherever else he has been and picked up all his tricks- but your not and never will. most of you guys have junk yard motors you built in your garage (just like any one of us can do) but your the fastest shit around on your little shithole lake in missouri or whatever. The only thing you can do is bag on a nice motor like randys cause you cannot have one. You guys piss me off im going surfing. No Junkyard motor here, just a Norm Grimes built blown big block :D . I think the dyno is a great tuning tool especially for jet boats, so I can understand why people are spending the money to use them. I hope HB is having some fun out there, I'm sure his boat will be a kick.

[Jet Hydro]

MikeC:
Stupid!?
HydroJet, take a close look at your own picture of your Jet Hydro Seat! 3ft out of the water, and you think it's fun and run it like that over and over................ That's pretty freaken dump!
LV's PlaceCraft will rock you! Mike your starting to look pretty STUPID your self...Here`s a picture from last weekends race. I don't see what your talking about? Look`s like a good 11.5 pass to me! :) I really think that it`s all that AIR out west that makes all those big numbers... Lord know`s you guy`s have enough of it! http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/208CowTown-11_552et-85_633mph-med.jpg
[ June 21, 2003, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Jet Hydro ]

[LVjetboy]

Or does it bug you (or Chet) when someone who's young with limited experience is right? Either way, I wouldn't worry about what irritates Chet :)
jer

[Jet Hydro]

MikeF:
Jet Hydro:
LVjetboy YOUR STUPID! http://www.moparstyle.net/forums/images/avatars/147.gif I believe that would be......YOU'RE STUPID. :rolleyes: :D It might be, but only down in the deep south do they use "You`re"....lol.... :p :rolleyes: :D

[MikeC]

The Beavis or is it Butthead is pretty funny!
Hydro, That ride looks 100 times better. What's the deal with all of that Cavitation coming off the sides?
[ June 25, 2003, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: MikeC ]

[Cs19]

Ian im not saying everyone has a junkyard motor around here, some of these guys have killer motors that really do make power and run well, but some guys do not! and some of these guys have no place saying the things they have been saying. Between this thread and the other one with the red rogers ive become very frustrated and i dont think its cool to talk sh*t on peoples hard earned money being spent on nice equiptment,especially when they have dogsh*t boats and motors.

[Johnwithjm]

After checking over the numbers the torque numbers seemed a little high for a 454. Those numbers are more like a 496 not a 454. So which is it 454 or 496

[MikeC]

JetHydroseat, by the way, the guy BN from CA beat you...... (talk about bench racing)...
MikeC
[ June 22, 2003, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: MikeC ]

[Hal]

John, If you were asking Randy he did say in his first post that he had 60 over with a 4.25 stroke which would give him 496 CI. I think a lot of guys that posted here may not have realized that the stock stroke is 4.00 and a 4.25 stroke (.250 longer than stock) gives him an extra 28 cubes. wink Hal...
(Quote)
"The motor is a 454BBC, 60 over, 4.25" stroke, Iron Chevy heads (990's) with some very nice port work done to them. SRP Pistons, Comp Cam valve train, Hydrolic Roller, Edlebrock Victor Ram Tunnel Ram which was port matched, Holley 750HP Double Pumpers, and a SCAT crank and H Beam rods. Air temp was between 76 and 83 through out the day, and the water temp was 110 degrees!"
[ June 22, 2003, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Hal ]

[Johnwithjm]

Johnwithjm:
After checking over the numbers the torque numbers seemed a little high for a 454. Those numbers are more like a 496 not a 454. So which is it 454 or 496 OK that is my mistake I missed the 60 over part. Those numbers sound about right to me. That motor looks very clean and should run well in HBs boat. When do we get the speed numbers? I sure want to hear the results.
[ June 22, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Johnwithjm ]

[Jet Hydro]

MikeC:
JetHydroseat, by the way, the guy BN from CA beat you...... (talk about bench racing)...
MikeC What are you talking about? BN from CA ???

[Johnwithjm]

Jet Hydro will you be making the trip out to PHX for the I.H.B.A world finals?

[Jet Hydro]

John we don't know yet. I would like to but with CSDBA folding up we haven't done much racing this year.
We are just using the races we do for testing new set up`s. I kinda got burned out when CSDBA did what they did and I lost some of my drive to push on but it`s coming back :)
So I would say Maybe wink

[LVjetboy]

Anyone heard from HBjet? Is he out on the lake today?
jer

[Shane W]

You guys should all get real boats. get into V-drive, way better and fast. get out of those overgrown waverunners

[TIMINATOR]

Mike C. I keep hearing nasty rumors about yer boat. Whatcha got? Have I seen it and dont know it? What lake you hang at? Just bein nosy, and you know you cant believe anything you hear.

[LVjetboy]

and you know you cant believe anything you hear. Sure enough. When you hear or read, consider the source. Mike runs what he says. So do some others who post here.
jer

[TIMINATOR]

LVJetboy you got some high zoot pump program? Whats it take to turn a American Turbine AA 5800 rpm in a dominator pump(fresh),does the inducer impeller make a difference? how bout the stock 3.125 nozzle? will a bigger nozzle lower or raise the rpm? just tryin to figure some stuff out.

[TIMINATOR]

but what DOES Mike C run? (boat and MPH?)

[TIMINATOR]

OH YEAH...who did I piss off to lose 2 stars?do I lose 2 mph per star or only 1?

[BK]

Just currious and not trying to bash anyones ride as im sure its much faster than mine but......Isnt a hydro supposed to run up on the sponsons? Looks like this boat isnt taking advantage of the hull design to me? What kinda #'s does it run, if you dont mind telling? And again im not being a smart ass just curious how it runs. :)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/208CowTown-11_552et-85_633mph-med.jpg [/QB][/QUOTE]

[King Kuracz]

JH is kind of like the last guy to run a front engine roadster at Indy.
Everyone tells him it wont work but he keeps tryin'

[Bense468]

Looks like its running up on the sponsons to me.
[ June 22, 2003, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Bense468 ]

[LVjetboy]

Stars are Bullsh*t. Timinator, you been posting here long? Then you've read my posts on the true meaning of stars. Maybe someone here can clue you in?
Is your question to me, or 572 Daytona for that matter serious or BS? If BS a waste of time.
But just in case your intent is serious...
MikeC - 1996 PlaceCraft
GPS 88.0 - 468 Chevy, 8.5:1, GM Oval Al heads, hyd flat cam, tunnel ram, 660 Holleys, MPD Berkeley B/C @ 5800 = 480 hp, now has NOS. If you value race results over reported lake GPS...well then his race results back up his claims. Whatever.
If you're really trying to "figure all this stuff out" as you say...
Whats it take to turn a American Turbine AA 5800 rpm in a dominator pump(fresh)Hp follows the impeller cut, so an AT AA impeller power best determined by the AT impeller curves not your Dominator pump housing.
does the inducer impeller make a difference?Inducer helps load on holeshot but has little effect on full throttle rpm or top speed...assuming your pump is loaded?
how bout the stock 3.125 nozzle?Nozzle size also has very little effect on full throttle rpm.
But don't ask me...ask the experts. I claim little experience, no titles or expertise. Just posting my opinions as always. Even to BS questions from time to time.
jer
[ June 22, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[dossangers]

here's the fastest jet hydro ever jim yates 130mph looks familier? http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43JETH-med.jpg http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Forum_Graphic_Depot/~AUT0007.JPG http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/167DSC00435-med.JPG

[Jet Hydro]

isn't that a Willis? built and driven by Dean Willis?
All`s I can say is "Yee Ha"
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43JETH-med.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/ekimzark/sdbawaco2003/websize/P4240435.JPG
[ June 22, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Jet Hydro ]

[MikeC]

You Jet Hydro guy's have big ones.
God Bless ya's.
eek!

[MikeC]

Hey Tim,
Here is my motor, and I haven't touch it since this time:
http://realjetboats.com/mikecplace/4-2001/ratreck.html
Here is from when I finally made it down the track;
http://realjetboats.com/WorldFinals2002/WorldFinals2002.html
It's what you do with what you have, not what you could have...

[Jet Hydro]

BK:
Just currious and not trying to bash anyones ride as im sure its much faster than mine but......Isnt a hydro supposed to run up on the sponsons? Looks like this boat isnt taking advantage of the hull design to me? What kinda #'s does it run, if you dont mind telling? And again im not being a smart ass just curious how it runs. :)
[/QB][/QUOTE]
In that picture you can see a fine mist coming of the sponsons. They are just on top of the water.
That picture was of a race last weekend in Ft Worth, Texas. The pass that it was on was 11.5et.

[lakesmodified]

TIMINATOR:
OH YEAH...who did I piss off to lose 2 stars?do I lose 2 mph per star or only 1? TIMINATOR, don't know who gave you some "one" stars, but I just shot you a five!

[77468sleekcraft]

THOSE BOATS ARE AWESOME I THINK I NEED 1 ANYBODY WANT TO TRADE.. jawdrop

[CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE]

Do these boats run like this or did it come out of the water and they snaped the pic?If so that is a pretty wild looking ride eek! http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43JETH-med.jpg

[djdtpr]

Mike C I see you live in Glendale AZ do u know a guy name Tod he is a automotive painter he has a tahiti with a blown ford in it?

[MikeC]

djdplacecraft:
Mike C I see you live in Glendale AZ do u know a guy name Tod he is a automotive painter he has a tahiti with a blown ford in it? DJD, no, I don't think I have run into him yet. Is he a friend of yours? Tell him to come out to the Friday Night Drags on the North end of Lake Pleasant!

[djdtpr]

He usually hangs out there at lake pleasant.I met him at the river in Blyth a few years ago.You would know the boat if u seen it he custom built the intake out of his old tunnel ram then built the chiller for it also.Ill tell him when i talk to him though.
Do u ever make it down to blythe at all if so u should come to mayflower sometime there are a couple other placecrafts up there to besides mine.

[dossangers]

CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE:
Do these boats run like this or did it come out of the water and they snaped the pic?If so that is a pretty wild looking ride eek! http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43JETH-med.jpg Thats what NITRO does and its a sanger like my other 2 it was designed by willis the fastest my purple one went was 92mph and there more like a tunnel than a true hydro but they turn like a MUTHA! if you want to go fast you need a v-drive http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/167river_004-med.jpg

[CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE]

Man that looks like one hell of a ride.Still trying to go fast in the vdrive :D

[wrightnow]

What a great weekend at OP6, oh thats another thread.
But I did get to spend some time today with HBJET, CYCLONE and SHOCKWAVEHARRY and yes we were able to run the boats (you got to love Big River)
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370Dsc02326-med.jpg
Sorry Shockwaveharry I didnt get you boat in the pic.
For all you non believers both boats ran great today with mike and randy's boats dead even in a race (some where in the low 90's, mike's GPS). The boats look like they still have a lot of room for improvemnt in getting the hardware setup just right, I'm sure they both will see 100mph soon.
I just wish we had more time to play today....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370Dsc02322-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370Dsc02323-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370Dsc02334-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370Dsc02337-med.jpg

[HBjet]

I can't believe this thread.... too funny, sorta.
As for Dave at DNE, until you have delt with him, you really can't comment on his engine "Building" skills.
As for what I ran this weekend.... Friday eve I took the boat to Big River and met up with Wrightnow. Ran the boat for a little bit and it sure pulls hard. It would take a good set, but I had some ride plate issues. So, on Sat. I added a shim to the ride plate bringing it down. Saturday we ran up to OP6 and that's about it. No speed runs, just crappy water. Sunday we went to Big River to meet up with Wrightnow and Cyclone was with us too.
Well, after we all got on the water Cyclone and I decided to pair up. I think we where at about 3k rpm and both stood on the throttle for about 5 seconds and we where still side by side. Dead even. I couldn't believe it, and neither could he. WE have been giving each other shit just about everyday on who will spank who (kidding, kinda) and when it came down to it, we where ****in even! Oh, and in that 5 second burst, the GPS read 92mph. I was at 5600rpm too.
There is a lot of dial in that needs to be done to my boat because so much has changed. I will keep posting numbers for those who are interested. The rest of you crack me up! You think I just bought the boat 2 days ago or some shit and just learned how to drive it the next day. Too funny.
HBjet

[novaguy]

That's great Randy, with your motor out of the way, I should have mine done soon.

[HavasuBarney]

Must have been a Westech GPS...... :D :D :p
Won't be Wacka Smackin with those numbers! wink :p

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Next - 5/01/03
A neat little 350 for a sixteen year olds first car and an upgrade on
an early King Street 455. First up the 350. The engine was sent to us in pieces
by Ryan Passmore for his son's first car. Ryan didn't want anything too powerful. Just
a nice efficient driver. So he chose some parts he had that included a 100 CC set
of 4C screw-in stud heads from a 1974 350, and on a .040 over 350 that gave him approx.
7.43.1 Cr. (Wow!) That's low. But hey, it will nearly run on kerosene.
Bruce spec'd a custom Comp Cams hydraulic cam in the 220's to work
with a low compression combination. Ryans E-bay aquired Q-jet turned out
to be so lean it was tossed in favor of a stock 650 Speed Demon.
We also used a 1965 Edelbrock P4B intake to clear the HEI distributor
Ryan sent us. The HEI worked well in this case - as all Pontiac
HEI's were designed for very low compression engines. 18 degrees
initial timing and 36.5 total gave the folloowing results. Pretty nice torque curve and
everyone was flipped out at the horsepower this super low compression 350 made.
KEY TO PERFORMANCE?
Our valve angles - Bruce's cam designed for low compression -
a better than stock intake and a great carb. Is this unbelieveable? 7.43 Cr. 350" !!
3600 was the torque peak - so that's where the tests started. 5100 was the power peak.
A 5% power drop will occur when the engine experiences under the hood heat.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/523Passmore350.jpgthis came from the pontiac link 472 has under gear heads....interesting... more proof that the Westech dyno don't lie 7.43 cr 350 that makes more hp than a ls1 small block chevy with 10:1 cr.......gotta be the tuning....all I can say is those boys know something everyone else hasn't figured out. My hats off to them
Omega

[Blown 472]

Westech did not tune that motor, Rock and roll engineering did the tuning, and you will note those are the corrected numbers.

[LVjetboy]

Thanks for the update HBjet. I'm certainly interested in any speed/rpm numbers you want to share when you get your setup tweaked.
jer

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

I understand this but if you will read the article they do their dyno work at Westech. Did you miss the picture of the guy standing next to the engine and the huge Westech sign behind them. You did read your link right?
Omega

[Blown 472]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
I understand this but if you will read the article they do their dyno work at Westech. Did you miss the picture of the guy standing next to the engine and the huge Westech sign behind them. You did read your link right?
Omega sheesh I must not of. I am in their site all the time, just because they dyno it there does not mean the westech boys did any tuning on the motor.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

okay we seem to have a disconnect here. They are using Westech's magic machine. The dyno that makes more hp than any other world wide.....hopefully now the water is clearing.
Omega

[Blown 472]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
okay we seem to have a disconnect here. They are using Westech's magic machine. The dyno that makes more hp than any other world wide.....hopefully now the water is clearing.
Omega go reread the post, you will figure it out.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

all I'm trying to say is a 7.43cr 350 will not make 327 hp the same way a pump gas normally aspirated big block will not make 700+. Sorry I just don't buy it.
Omega

[Blown 472]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
all I'm trying to say is a 7.43cr 350 will not make 327 hp the same way a pump gas normally aspirated big block will not make 700+. Sorry I just don't buy it.
Omega those are corrected numbers, if you look at the other motors, you will see the measured is less then the corrected.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

yeah but just for joy let's look at a 1976 pontiac 400 that came with 8.5:1 and made 180 hp. you mean to tell me that an engine with less cr 50 less cubes and a small cam will make more hp. nope. Bottom line is the dyno is telling fibs.
Omega

[Blown 472]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
yeah but just for joy let's look at a 1976 pontiac 400 that came with 8.5:1 and made 180 hp. you mean to tell me that an engine with less cr 50 less cubes and a small cam will make more hp. nope. Bottom line is the dyno is telling fibs.
Omega THat could be, but both builders are selling alot of parts and engines. :rolleyes:

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

that's because there are alot of dumbasses out there that believe in these huge numbers. I don't buy it though. And I personally feel sorry for anyone that thinks they can get outragous numbers on normally aspirated pump gas engines.
Omega

[TIMINATOR]

Reply to everyone! LVJetboy.... the stars thing was "tongue in cheek" the other questions, serious. Lakes Modified.... thnx 4 da stars.
DJDPlacecraft.... Todd has a yellow 18' Kachina copy w/498" stroker BBFord, big porting and valves and 9.5 comp. runs BDS 8-71 and bugcatcher on alky as of the last contact, not lately. usually at river or pleasant, occasionally Roosevelt -all old info
MIKE C.... you are NOT who I was told you are, sorry for the confusion, and no offense intended.
572 Daytona.... Avatar looks GOOOOOOOOOD!!!! I checked on the Crane and Cam Dynamics catalogues to 1986, not found, but the 139 prefix denotes a hydraulic roller grind, must be non-catalogued. The lift seems excessive for what it seems, maybe 1.8 rockerarms? When you run out of things to do,take the cam to someone with a CamDoctor it will tell:lift,duration at all lifts,lobe sep.,area under the curve,etc. My own opinion is that you need a solid roller with about 275deg at .050 I could be wrong. I couldnt maka a hyd Roller work worth a damn, spent a ton of cash and time on 2 of em, put a solid roller in and gained 5 mph!!!!! TIMMINATOR

[Jet Hydro]

CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE:
Do these boats run like this or did it come out of the water and they snaped the pic?If so that is a pretty wild looking ride eek! http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43JETH-med.jpg "No" they dont run that way. In my case I missed the set up by a mile. There had been some new parts in stalled before winter and the boat never got tested before the race that the picture was taken at.
As far as Dean`s I cant say but the next time I talk to him I`ll ask him why his boat did the same thing. Dean`s boat is like 1/2 hydro and 1/2 tunnel. He built the boats on top of a tunnel hull.
My boat is the same boat used as the Hondo V Drive Hydro. Mine just has a pod added to the bottom for the intake of the jet drive, but the bottom of mine is the same bottom as the V Drive Hondo hydro.

[Jet Hydro]

Are those boats beached? "OH MY" All that work and you park it on the beach. I would hate to look at the bottom of those boats. The only time my boats see less that 3ft or water is going on and coming off the trailer.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1370Dsc02326-med.jpg
Glad to here that you hit 92mph in just 5sec. That thing should click off 100+ easy Put the gps in your boat and see what the difference is. Oh yea who held the stop watch? Hell better yet, go to a race near you and run it down the 1/4 and you`ll get a whole new reading that no one can say is a false reading.
Look`s like you are riding kinda wet for 90mph. Take some of that ride plate out you`ll pick up a few mph wink Good luck and make sure you have your life jacket "ON" when your on a speed run.

[cyclone]

For all the naysayers out there that dont believe the dyno numbers..I raced randy on sunday and in 97-degree heat we both ran dead even to 91.5 mph on my gps. I dont have an rpm number on my boat because i was looking for at the gps (and the water in front of me).
Mark- thanks for showing us big river and we'll be back for sure after the boats are dialed-in and we find more speed! Maybe next time you and i can line up too.

[LVjetboy]

Cyclone, nice numbers!
Timinator, copy the serious questions. If you turn an AT AA to 5800 rpm you got serious power. The JPC says 788 hp, this based on a curve fit of AT power data in the Seloc manual.
jer

[wrightnow]

Mike, I'm pretty sure I don't want to line up next to you after your dialed-in, but It was nice to have you guy come on down.
I'm sure we made the day for the othert group from lost lake though, Between MissHB and her crew and the speed runs those guys were very entertaned. Oh yeh so was mark jr....
Looking forward to the next trip.

[cyclone]

mark jr is a river pimp! notice how the hotties were all hugged up on him and not us. must have been the effect of sittin in the shockwave?
thanks again mark!

[roostwear]

Cyclone,
Care to pass a few setup tips on to me for my Rogers hull? :D
Sounds like a weekend trip to Elsinore is in order. Now if I can just hook up with Todd......

[cyclone]

roostwear- i wouldnt recommend trying to set up any boat at elsinore unless you get there at 6am sharp. This weekend was the first time i actually got to run the boat wide open. two trips to elsinore netted me nothing but $200.00 in fines and no numbers. Todd's boat is setup pretty good and yours will will probably like the same. I believe he runs his ride plate in the neighborhood of two degrees up. His boat gps'd a tad over 80mph with its current setup and less than 500hp.

[Hal]

If the wind stays down, Elsinore gets pretty nice about 5 PM and it gets better up to closing time. About 8 PM... including week-ends.. :)

[Taylorman]

I guess this thread took over Cyclones. Too much drama here for me. HB who ceramic coated your Bassetts?

[cyclone]

hal- did you pick up your headers yet?

[clownpuncher]

LVjetboy:
Cyclone, nice numbers!
Timinator, copy the serious questions. If you turn an AT AA to 5800 rpm you got serious power. The JPC says 788 hp, this based on a curve fit of AT power data in the Seloc manual.
jer Do you have any idea what an AA turning
4300 rpm's is as far as HP? Don't know a whole lot about my engine specs, I'm just curious. Thanks in advance

[skeepwerkzaz]

Just out of curiosity were you running up or down river when you got the #'s?

[Jet Hydro]

How much is an Aggressor A turning 6800rpm? :)

[Hal]

Mike, Yes picked them up Friday. Thank you very much.. :) Hal...

[Hal]

oops, double post.......
[ June 23, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Hal ]

[TRG]

hey mike (roostwear) im ready when you are!just give us a hollar!

[MikeF]

Jet Hydro:
How much is an Aggressor A turning 6800rpm? :) Probley depends on how much cavitation is being created. cry

[djdtpr]

Terminator did he buy a new hull this last winter cause he was running the old tahiti last summer or are we talking about someone different?He has a motorhome that was painted to match the boat.He did say he was looking at the kachina's though.

[Jet Hydro]

MikeF:
Jet Hydro:
How much is an Aggressor A turning 6800rpm? :) Probley depends on how much cavitation is being created. cry I dont know about that...lol... the boat that the motor is out of run`s 100+ and ran 9`s...lol...

[MikeF]

Jet Hydro:
MikeF:
Jet Hydro:
How much is an Aggressor A turning 6800rpm? :) Probley depends on how much cavitation is being created. cry I dont know about that...lol... the boat that the motor is out of run`s 100+ and ran 9`s...lol... I'm pretty sure the Abracadabra runs around 102+mph @ 6200+/- rpm according to it's owner :cool: . Your buddies boat should be running 112+/-....not 100+.
Is his boat called...Got Issues :p (jk wink ).

[roostwear]

toddnjuzz:
hey mike (roostwear) im ready when you are!just give us a hollar! Called on Wednesday and you weren't home. I'm probably tempting fate taking it out thia weekend, but I needs a break. Any time after work this week will work.

[HBjet]

Hal:
I think a lot of guys that posted here may not have realized that the stock stroke is 4.00 and a 4.25 stroke (.250 longer than stock) gives him an extra 28 cubes. wink You know Hal, I was starting to think the same thing!
So, for those of you who need a little math lesson.... Here you go!
(Bore x Bore x Stroke x .7854 x # of Cylinders) will give the cubes of a said engine.
So a 454, 60 over, with a 4.25" stroke will give you a 496.
4.310 x 4.310 x 4.250 x .7854 x 8 = 496 cubic inches :)
HBjet

[Eric455]

HBjet:
Hal:
I think a lot of guys that posted here may not have realized that the stock stroke is 4.00 and a 4.25 stroke (.250 longer than stock) gives him an extra 28 cubes. wink You know Hal, I was starting to think the same thing!
So, for those of you who need a little math lesson.... Here you go!
(Bore x Bore x Stroke x .7854 x # of Cylinders) will give the cubes of a said engine.
So a 454, 60 over, with a 4.25" stroke will give you a 496.
4.310 x 4.310 x 4.250 x .7854 x 8 = 496 cubic inches :)
HBjet by the time i found out how to do that i would of past out.
your motor sounded if not but just as good as my 468BBC n the 18' elim. jawdrop urs maid more power i guess. lol just bustin ur balls randy hey i dont think ur motor made 732 hp i think it made 731dp(donkeypower) lol j/k
i'll send u the tape soon
eric
[ June 24, 2003, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Eric455 ]

[Blown 472]

web page (http://www.worldcastings.com/docs/03catalog/engines.pdf)

[revndave]

HAL
WHEN YOU GOING BACK OUT?
WALKING THROUGH NEW HOUSE TODAY
JPC DOESNT ALWAYS WORK.LEGEND IMPELLER,BERKELEY PUMP,AND INDUCER.HP AND MPH DOESNT COMPUTE.MOTOR WAS DYNOED.

[Taylorman]

Blown 472:
web page (http://www.worldcastings.com/docs/03catalog/engines.pdf) World Products must be lying about that 632 making 780 on pump gas cause 10:1 compression cant make that much hp. LOL.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Taylorman,
I would say that 780 would be attainable with 632 freakin cubic inches. you can't beat cubes for hp. But we were talking about an engine that had less than 500 cubes making 730+ hp. that is 1.47 hp per cubic inch. the 632 is only making 1.23 hp per cubic inch a much more believable number on pump gas. But what do I know. Us dumbass rednecks just don't know how to build em like them boys in Cali.
Omega

[HBjet]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
Taylorman,
I would say that 780 would be attainable with 632 freakin cubic inches. you can't beat cubes for hp. But we were talking about an engine that had less than 500 cubes making 730+ hp. that is 1.47 hp per cubic inch. the 632 is only making 1.23 hp per cubic inch a much more believable number on pump gas. But what do I know. Us dumbass rednecks just don't know how to build em like them boys in Cali.
Omega It's not you or anyone else is a dumbass redneck, but just because you can't build a 496ci 732hp motor in your garage doesn't mean it isn't possible. All I see is a lot of people saying they can't see it being done because none of the well known "Engine Package Builders" haven't done it. What I don't see is anyone actually saying WHY it can't be done.
Chet said he can't see a 700hp motor using cast iron 990 heads with a lot of port work, but has yet to explain why that's not possible. I see a lot of people having a hard time believing what my motor makes, but no one with any real reasons why, just specs from other motors that Big Names sell.
HBjet

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

It's not you or anyone else is a dumbass redneck, but just because you can't build a 496ci 732hp motor in your garage doesn't mean it isn't possible. All I see is a lot of people saying they can't see it being done because none of the well known "Engine Package Builders" haven't done it. What I don't see is anyone actually saying WHY it can't be done.
Chet said he can't see a 700hp motor using cast iron 990 heads with a lot of port work, but has yet to explain why that's not possible. I see a lot of people having a hard time believing what my motor makes, but no one with any real reasons why, just specs from other motors that Big Names sell.
HBjet
I can tell you why. An engine is nothing more than a huge air pump. That is why cubic inches make hp easier than anything. Especially when you are talking a normally aspirated engine which relys on the vacuum of the engine to pull air and fuel into the cylinder. I just don't think you could suck enough air and fuel into a cylinder to create that kind of power. Now if it were forced induction I could believe it. In that case the amount of positive pressure you apply can make huge differences in the amount of hp in other words more boost=more filling capabilities. Oh let's clear the water about something else. I don't build engines on my garage floor. I do however assemble my own engines. The machine work is always done by a man I have known for years. His name is Willard Buff. You may have heard of his son Troy Buff as in the federal mogal alcohol dragster driver. Now Willard has been around a long time and raced cars longer than you have been alive. His son has also broke records with the engine they built in their shop in their back yard. They are also one of the only self sponsored teams running in the NHRA alcohol dragster division. And they do it all from a shop behind a country house in Spring, Tx. So I ran your numbers past him a few days ago and first thing he asked was what compression ratio and more important what fuel you were burning. It is definitely possible to get the kind of power you are talking just not with 91 octane unleaded gasoline. The laws of physics don't change. Either you use oxygen enriched fuel or forced induction to get that kind of hp. But like I said what do I know. I build engines in the back of an old country house.
Omega

[Ian]

I for one don't know if it is or isn't possible, but wether your making 730 or 690 it doesn't really matter because this past weekend seemes to prove that your boat hauls ass. I think some of the reasons people are having a hard time believing your hp numbers is your engine size, fuel type and the use of 990 heads(which I also use). 990's don't have the best exhaust port so even with a lot of port work they won't flow like a lot of the newer heads

[cyclone]

what's really funny about this whole debate is that the people who claim to be the authority on the subject really have no clue. I was there, i saw it run, it made the power randy said it did on the dyno, and then ran extremely well at the river last weekend with zero dial-in time. He dropped it in the water and ran over 90mph. But that can't be possible can it? How much do you think his boat weighs? Last time i checked, the full interior, cup holders, bow light and heavy lay-up qualified it as a lake boat, not a race boat. You all can keep on living in your delusional world where nothing can ever be done and no one can ever do something different. The bottom line is that if you dont believe his boat runs what it does then you should step up and run against him. I"m more that sure that with the proper setup, Randy will hit 95mph easily and hand most everyone here their asses on the lake.

[565edge]

I know that a decent set of 990's can flow around 340-350cfm on the intake,not sure on exhaust,that is with a decent port job(Those numbers acually come from a friend that works for alan johnson cylinder heads out of santa maria),That is pretty far from my darts that flowed 415cfm on there same flow bench,cyclones heads probally flowed 400 plus too(afr heads are very nice)cyclone also had a big bore which also helps the head flow better,Now hbjets motor used cast iron heads?To retain heat some say?Then why are his pistons and head chambers coated?To help dissapate heat?Are his pistons gas ported?Does hbjet have 12:1 comp with the new coatings that help dissapate heat and help stop detonation?well never know?anyways both your boats seemed to run well over the weekend,so good luck and be safe.

[Blown 472]

blah blah blah, sure its fast while sitting on the sandbar, have you taken it to pheonix and ran it, well no, cuz it is too fast for the lake boat catogory. :rolleyes:

[78Eliminator]

HBjet:
All I see is a lot of people saying they can't see it being done because none of the well known "Engine Package Builders" haven't done it. What I don't see is anyone actually saying WHY it can't be done.I have a good idea HB. Call all the disbeliever's bluffs. If they will pay for the dyno costs, take your motor to the "brand-x" dyno and see what numbers pop up there. Your rings are all seated and broken in so your numbers might even be higher....
Maybe even make a bet. If the numbers are off more than 50 hp, you pay. If they aren't, the naysayers pay. This could get fun perhaps we could set up a pool.
[ June 24, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]

[cyclone]

that's not a bad idea. start with Blown472. that is unless of course he's chicken. :D

[Blown 472]

cyclone:
that's not a bad idea. start with Blown472. that is unless of course he's chicken. :D Like I said, take it to the drags, film it and show your pass, simple enough huh?? Unlike you I back up what I say, I take my car to the drags and race it, I talk it up cuz I know it makes power, my boat is nothing special, never was and until I spend some more money on it, never will be, just a sixty over, iron headed 460, It was set up as a mule to later be put into a v drive.

[cyclone]

sounds like chicken to me??? eek!

[Blown 472]

cyclone:
sounds like chicken to me??? eek! Yup, I will trailer from socal to the river but I wont go to ming or pheonix to run my new hot rod, you got it I am chicken, keep dancing around the subject. I have nothing to prove, like I said I was not talking large.

[ssmike]

HBJet -
Congrats...The motor looks great. Did you ever answer the question about who did the header coating??

[Johnwithjm]

I don`t see where cyclone has anything to prove either. Mike your ride is sweet hope to see you on the 4th at Lost Lake.

[cyclone]

maybe you missed the point. 78 eliminator had a good idea about betting that Randy's motor will make near the same power on your favorite hometown dyno. But what do i know, i have a boat that runs over 90 mph and you keep on blabbing about some car as if it makes you the authority on the subject.
Man i can't remember when the jet board has been this entertaining. thanks!

[cyclone]

thanks John- i can't wait to see yours run with the new mill. I might not make the 4th because of a wedding. If not, i'll be out the following weekend. I'll know today.

[Blown 472]

cyclone:
maybe you missed the point. 78 eliminator had a good idea about betting that Randy's motor will make near the same power on your favorite hometown dyno. But what do i know, i have a boat that runs over 90 mph and you keep on blabbing about some car as if it makes you the authority on the subject.
Man i can't remember when the jet board has been this entertaining. thanks! No need to take the engine out, just take it to the drags.

[HBjet]

Blown 472:
No need to take the engine out, just take it to the drags. So the drags will tell you how much power a motor is making? Are you serious Blown? So what is a dyno for..... something to do just for the fun of it?
BTW, there are no coatings on my pistons, and my comp isn't 12:1. It's lower then that, but higher then 10:1
HBjet :D

[565edge]

HBjet:
[ BTW, there are no coatings on my pistons, and my comp isn't 12:1. It's lower then that, but higher then 10:1
HBjet D [/QB]What about chambers?Im getting closer?Anyways you guys be safe,(not trying to sound like a dick)a friend had a eliminator sprint,ran a couple times at ming,he went around 90mph,his boat is still on the bottom of naciemento in pieces along with his new motor,He went out in the morning with no vest and still doesnt know what happened,1 broken leg,knocked his front teeth out,broke his jaw,a screwed him up pretty good,he either lost power and barreled rolled or boat hooked somehow,2 local fisherman were right there and rescued him,if not he would of been dead,his buddy was on shore with no way of getting out there.

[wrightnow]

Lets see,
Randy and Mike are using pump gas, saw that this weekend
They are running in the 90's, saw that this weekend
They are running in a lake boat, saw that this weekend
So what part am I missing, Did MPD do some super duper magic on the pumps to run at that speed without the horse power or (and) are the numbers from the dyno correct?
So at first glance the number seem high (HP, MPH) but I saw it on sunday, so come on, help me here what am I missing?

[HBjet]

wrightnow:
so come on, help me here what am I missing? A bimini top and a bow light for that CP of yours :D
HBjet

[cyclone]

thanks for the advice 565- i'm not trying to die or sink my boat so i'll keep on playing safely.

[wrightnow]

Yeh, Don't let Corinne here that..

[Windy]

Did nobody get a pic of me driving the boat :(
It was good seeing you and your family Mark.
MissHBjet

[cyclone]

randy has been slacking with the pics. i haven't seen any from his camera yet.

[Blown 472]

HBjet:
Blown 472:
No need to take the engine out, just take it to the drags. So the drags will tell you how much power a motor is making? Are you serious Blown?
HBjet :D Funny, they cant dyno a fuel motor but are able to figure out the hp, by use of a mathmatical forumla that uses, mph, and weight, and bingo you have REAL WORLD HP.

[ChetCapoli]

cyclone:
You all can keep on living in your delusional world where nothing can ever be done and no one can ever do something different. Are you guys saying you have done something different here?? Who's being delusional now???? Lets not forget that randy's hull is the FASTEST V HULL EVER MADE. Yours just might be second cyclone. Jeff B ran that "liberty" hull to somewhere around 110mph with under 500cu(may just be 496cu) coincidence?? I think not. Your shops just happen to pick the hulls that run well..VERY WELL. No majic pumps or motors, just hulls. That is not just a variable, its the ONLY variable here. You both have proven boats to run the number but yet you'll cheerlead about the motor/pump shop being the only factor. Something different...you make me laugh cyclone. Why dont you guys take it to another dyno to back up those "inflated" numbers. 5600rpm doesn't get me excited, it's right were you should be(and it doesnt equate to 731hp either) I got one shop in california i know pretty well that just so happens to have a dyno. I'll mention it to him and see if he might want to get involved. :D Of course i dont know about you guys....might let the cat out of the bag. Why take it to another dyno...i can hear it now.
Hey HB, i told you on my other post the exhaust port hinders those heads tremendously. Last i knew cast retains the heat more than aluminum no?? Your going to run your number(in the fastest v hull made) so in the end, what difference does it make right? I just have to work on getting close to ya is all. :p
CHET

[cyclone]

First- i've not cheerleaded for any shop. My motor was assembled at home by myself and MikeF.
Second- I bought my hull out of the boat trader with zero input from any shop or anyone on this board. Its my second Rogers boat and i bought it because i like the way they look and handle.
Third- my point about doing something different referred to starting with a stock crate engine and not spending a fortune with an engine builder in order to have a motor that made good power. That was my original point. I did not say go to DNE or anyone else. I simply stated that i spent minimal amounts of cash and made x amount of horsepower. You can take it for what its worth. I had nothing to gain by posting my motor specs. The smart money would have been on sandbagging my numbers so that i could surprise people on the water. How hard is that to understand?

[revndave]

THE HP AND MPH SOUND GOOD TO ME.MY FRIENDS HAVE BAHNERS THAT RUN LOW 90 WITH 700HP.I CAN BUILD A 1000+ OUT OF MY GARAGE.JUST DONT KNOW HOW I DID IT.LOOKS LIKE WE NEED ANOTHER RUN WHAT U BRUNG.

[cyclone]

exactly. i think we do need another RWUB. I have a feeling the naysayer's won't show up for it though. If it does happen, i vote for a different time of year and location. Seems to me that past RWUB's have been rained out.

[Blown 472]

Does that inclued everyone? even the guys with the smaller motored v drives??

[cyclone]

RWUB or no RWUB i'll be on the water running my boat. If you feel the need to bring someone else's boat just to find out what i've already told you about mine, then go get some. Otherwise, i'm over this whole debacle. Play on player!

[Blown 472]

cyclone:
RWUB or no RWUB i'll be on the water running my boat. If you feel the need to bring someone else's boat just to find out what i've already told you about mine, then go get some. Otherwise, i'm over this whole debacle. Play on player! I would not bring another persons boat, I just think it funny when a v drive with a 427 shows up and hands you your ass.
Player?? I dont like sports.

[Ian]

I"m more that sure that with the proper setup, Randy will hit 95mph easily and hand most everyone here their asses on the lake. I'll play :D ! J/K honestly both you guys got some sweet lake boats and if we're ever at the lake together I'd love to go for a ride. I've never been in a fast jet

[DogHouse]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
all I'm trying to say is a 7.43cr 350 will not make 327 hp the same way a pump gas normally aspirated big block will not make 700+. Sorry I just don't buy it.
Omega My normally aspirated pump gas big block made 770 hp last year, on a non-Westec dyno. Also made 760 ft-lbs. Makes more this year with a new combo. Makes a 4000 lb cat run well into the 90s, maybe more if I ever get the right prop on there.
OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
that's because there are alot of dumbasses out there that believe in these huge numbers. I don't buy it though. And I personally feel sorry for anyone that thinks they can get outragous numbers on normally aspirated pump gas engines.
Omega Let's see, my same boat with a stock 500 hp Merc motor will run about 75 mph on a good day. My boat runs at least 20 better. That takes power, and lots of it. Guess I'm a dumass. Sounds like you've got it all figured out. :rolleyes:

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

My normally aspirated pump gas big block made 770 hp last year, on a non-Westec dyno. Also made 760 ft-lbs. Makes more this year with a new combo. Makes a 4000 lb cat run well into the 90s, maybe more if I ever get the right prop on there.
You didn't mention how many cubic inches your engine displaces. I'm guessing a little more than 500. Is it carburated or fuel injected?
Omega

[wrightnow]

Sorry Wendy I didn't get any pic of you driving. I had already taken 30 or so pic (at least seem like it.. lol) of Mike racing back and forth and just thought it was him again until it was to late.
But it was good see you again, sorry we didn't get a change to chat more, but you know how it goes when the boys start talking boat talk (how did you make up those dyno#'s lol).
I'm still trying to find you guy a place to stay for the 4th, so far it's been no problem for you, Crystal and Lisa, but know one has step up for randy or mike yet.

[DogHouse]

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
You didn't mention how many cubic inches your engine displaces. I'm guessing a little more than 500. Is it carburated or fuel injected?
Omega Last year was a carbed 588 with a moderate roller cam. Made peak power at 5700, peak torque at 4700. Smaller motor with similar cam and heads will not lose much hp but will lose significant torque and will move the power curve up in rpm. Cyclone's motor made only 30ish hp less, but something like 100 ft-lbs less, all at higher rpm than mine. Randy's was similar. I think it's consistent data and in the realm of possibility.
This year's combo is a 598 and will soon be injected and dyno'd again... I'll be sure to post the numbers so everyone can tell me I'm full of sh!t too!
:D

[565edge]

Hey doghouse how does your buddies 21' edge run,ive seen some pics but how does it perform?What heads did you end up with?

[THOR]

HBjet:
wrightnow:
so come on, help me here what am I missing? A bimini top and a bow light for that CP of yours :D
HBjet Easy on the boats with bow lights and biminis. I can suck down many beers under my bimini and stay til it gets dark because I have a bow light. So back off.

[HBjet]

Hey man, I'm on your team! I have a bow light and a bimini top too!
HBjet :D

[mickeyfinn]

Excuse me but this sounds like BULLSHIT 101!!
Who cares how much HP HB's engine builds. If you don't believe the numbers then don't believe them. The comment take it to the drags??...How about take it to the river!! (last time I checked this is a ***boat website) If HB has an engine that runs the way he likes and he feels like he got his money's worth isn't that all that matters. Seems to me that questioning whether or not a Dyno gives real numbers is like questioning someone as to whether or not they have a hammer......after they have hit you in the head with it. Personally I hope the engine builds every bit of the horsepower the dyno indicated and that it last for 20 seasons. Oh well.....sometimes you just get tired of everyone finding any excuse to talk down about anyone but themselves. Now that I have said my piece I have work to do on my 402 that will be putting out a whoppin 300 or 325 HP when finished. (I thought that was a lot till I started hanging out here)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D