New Stringers [Archive] - RiverRacer.Net

beached1

11-18-2002, 01:44 PM

In a perfect world, your stringers should never get wet, but my ? is what if they do?. For whatever reason, why not use the best hardwood and the best wood to resist moisture? When I did my stringers, I was told by Old Rigger that most types of wood are fine as long as they are Kiln Dried. With the theroy that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link in mind, I decided to go with the best hardwood I could find. I don't have the number on me, but contact Reel Lumber in Riverside, CA. Located on Chicago near 3rd st. They have the most knowlegable people I have ever met in regards to the properties of woods. It was the guys at Reel that told me that Phillipean Mohogany is the best wood for my application. They told me that most of the people who buy their Mohogany are boat builders and people restoring old boats.
After glassin in my stringers, I sprayed rubberized undercoating on them to seal anything I might have missed. Also shot the underside of my floor with it. You can buy that shit at Kragens for a couple bucks a can.

beached1

11-18-2002, 01:49 PM

Bow Tie Omega:
They were completely waterlogged. Someone went in and did a horrible job trying to seal them with fiberglass. That's how you tell it's an Omega from a splash.
wink
JK
I feel your pain bro. Went through it last year.

Mohavekid

11-18-2002, 05:56 PM

I think strength is an issue as well. Redwood is very rot resitant, but it's strength is not too high, it splits pretty easily.
Try posting your question on havasubarney.com, if anybody knows this stuff it him.
Godd luck.

DUCKY

11-18-2002, 08:17 PM

The best way I know of is to laminate pieces of 3/4" 5 ply plywood in the center and pieces of 1/2" 5 ply on the outside. Stick them all together with a layer of 1/2 ounce mat in between, and lay them into the boat with a catalyzed epoxy of some sort like marine tex. Then sand them and router the edges and cover them in a layer of 1/2 ounce mat with surfacing agent in the resin. Sand that down a little to roughen it up and cover them in 6 ounce (I Think...) bi-axial, also with surfacing agent. You will then have stringers as tough as any K-boat or blown fuel hydro. Then, if you want to make it look pretty, you can sand your whole floor and flow coat it, or just gel-coat it.

Bow Tie Omega

11-19-2002, 11:44 AM

Thanks for the info guys. So beached1, the rubberized coating is OK to do. That was another one of my questions. I really do not want to do this again ( stringers). I am really trying to do it right.

flattie

11-19-2002, 11:55 AM

make sure the bottom of the boat is straight before you put new ones in

Sangster

11-19-2002, 12:03 PM

Most Boat builders use Kiln Dried stair step stock..Its the perfect size...A 10' lenght ripped in half lenghtwise should do the trick...Any hardwood will work, Ash works great, and it looks great....

Omega21

11-19-2002, 04:08 PM

Keep in mind...most hardwoods are very dense...which means very heavy. If you're concerned about your boat's weight, I'd stick with a KD Fir & soak the tar out of it with CPES from rotdoctor.com
I do like the laminated plywood idea though...
Todd

beached1

11-19-2002, 09:03 PM

flattie:
make sure the bottom of the boat is straight before you put new ones inI disagree. You should true the bottom after the changes are made.

beached1

11-19-2002, 09:25 PM

Bow Tie Omega:
So beached1, the rubberized coating is OK to do. That was another one of my questions. I really do not want to do this again ( stringers). I am really trying to do it right.Yes, it worked great.
I used mat on just about everything that I could. It may be a little heavy, but much stronger IMO than any cloth. I used Laminating resin, because it's very easy to work with and very strong. To fill in the seems (beacuse I went sideways accross the stringers for more strength) I used a filler called Fibral for the floor. Havasu Barney is the fiberglass and Gelcoat Jedi in these parts, but if he can't help you and you have any ?'s feel free to e-mail me. I have a little exp in glass repair.
Good Luck!
Gerrit

HOSS

11-20-2002, 10:04 AM

Do not use treated wood. It expands and contracts. Whatever wood you do use make sure it is thouroughly dried. Stick it in your attic! Plywood is fine, ripped to fit. When doing glass work, make sure you get the air out! Very important. Now as not to confuse you use heavy woven on the stringers, liberally coated and soaked, get rid of air and let it tranform to steel. Make sure the hull is straight BEFORE setting stringers. If not you may have to counter balance you hull(while on the lake) with a few ice chests loaded with beer. Remember to coat everything. No air meens no h2o. No h2o and no rot. It is very simple yet time consuming. Take your measurements and check them. Remember the floor will be on top so take that measurement into consideration. This is not brain surgery and I seriously doubt you are going for speed records. Just take your time because like any project, it only comes out as good as the amount of time you put into it. Don`t go for the show room finish either. The floor wil be covering this and if done right will never be seen by man again. After installing floor, hole saw some 1 1/2 inch holes to put floatation (really just sound dampener). Tuff stuff is cheap at Home Depot. remember whatever you use, IT EXPANDS. That is why you have a fill hole and a vent hole. Ialmost blew the bricks off my house when doing storm windows. If you feel it is not perfectly filled with foam,,,,so what. Now again heavy woven sides and holes and resin the hole damn floor GOOD. Not show room finish `cause you are carpeting the floor. Will look awsome, won`t take 2 yrs. and you no now that you did it and its done right. Remember air bubbles are not strength.

old rigger

11-20-2002, 10:46 AM

You guys are right on track with the kiln dried fir. Try to get tight, straight grain when picking out your pieces.
In my opinion, forget that expanding foam crap. What's the point anyway? It'a almost impossible to completly seal the sub floor off. You might think your sealing it but moisture has a way of collecting in there and that foam shit just acts as a sponge, holding it in there, and adding weight to the boat. I always put holes in the floors of my boats. An access hole hidden up front somewhere and one or two drain holes in the rear floor bulkhead will add years to the life of your floor. By opening everything up when the boats sitting and letting it air out, it gets rid of any moisture that's in there.
Bow Tie Omega, don't forget to set the stringers on a nice little bed of wetted out matt when you're putting them in place. After you've covered them with matt AND cloth, (woven roving on stringers? no way) and the final flo-coat, they'll be tough as nails and last another 25-30 years.
Oh yeah, beached1 is right, you can't blueprint a bottom until the stringers are in place. There's nothing there to hold the shape true.

Havasu Hangin'

11-20-2002, 11:29 AM

old rigger:
In my opinion, forget that expanding foam crap. What's the point anyway? It'a almost impossible to completly seal the sub floor off. You might think your sealing it but moisture has a way of collecting in there and that foam shit just acts as a sponge, holding it in there, and adding weight to the boat. I always put holes in the floors of my boats. An access hole hidden up front somewhere and one or two drain holes in the rear floor bulkhead will add years to the life of your floor. By opening everything up when the boats sitting and letting it air out, it gets rid of any moisture that's in there.Yes...this is a great point that I wish the idiots who re-floored my boat would have followed. Do you really need that positive flotation?
Later, someone also told me that if the reason was positive flotation, even if the floor filled up (cracked hull), as long as your tanks were half empty, chances are the boat will not go to the bottom of the lake anyway.
Save the couple hundred pounds...

old rigger

11-20-2002, 11:53 AM

Havasu Hangin'
yeah, you're right.
I know the reason the builders put it there, to try to get coast gaurd approval. I'm talking about when you're redoing a floor or the stringers.
Outboards are the worst to get approval, or at least they use to be. The boat had to float level when sinking. ???? What the **** that was about, I don't know. I/Os and jets, just had to float nose up. Only on boats under 21 feet. I guess they thought the bigger boats wouldn't sink? Builders just went to bigger boats (duh) and side stepped the whole issue.
Even when the coast gaurd came down on a builder because a boat failed, they would buy a boat from the builder looking like a regular customer so's not to let the cat out of the bag that it was going to be tested, getting the boats passed again was a ****ing joke. Typical government bullshit. After the fines are paid and a recall has been performed on all boats in question (yeah right, a little number fudging on the forms and NO boats fixed) everybody's happy as clams, and the boats still would'nt pass. But, the government got their cash.
They really mess up the test boats too. Drill big holes in them where any air might be trapped to aid in floatation. They pull the motors (gee, I wonder where they go) and substitute them with dead weight. It's just a game. Never see the same boat tested twice by the same builder, unless they didn't meet their strict standards. Ha!

HOSS

11-20-2002, 12:21 PM

Wrong answer. Floatation? My boat is a Southwind. That is not enough foam to float shit. 8" on either side of floor is hull. This is for noise! How can it act as a sponge if it is sealed? You drilled a hole in rear of your floor. That is not enough to dry shit! When did he say blueprint? This sounds as if he will be doing this in his driveway like most. And is a novice. why make it sound more complex than it is? What type of boats and years are you talking about. I had foam in my floor from factory `69 Sleekcraft 17`. My Southind I added it for sound deadening. My Southwind has also been sunk. Huge hole in hull right before floor. The only way these hulls could float would be air entrapment in hull forward. That`s it! Coast Guard approval. Most people 99% are dealing with older boats. pre-dated the regulations set now for retail boats. Drill holes in floor for ventilation? What the hell do you smoke? I do not want any. After spraying tuff stuff, the holes must be coverred. I didn`t even drill holes for my hot foot. Counter sunk on 3/16 aluminum and bolted to that. Then epoxy down. I dont think we are referring to the same style of boat. Remember, Bayliner, Thunderbird, Rivierra, bay boats, and all the splashes from there on do not in my book represent Hot Boats nor the mainstream of people on this site. There are a tremendous amount of products avaiable. I am giving this person the best easiest and ability to do this job and ENJOY his boat. There was aguy near me that back in the 60`s and 70`suse to uild hydros from Balsa ( if that is the correct spelling)! The glass work is the strength. I do not pretend to know everything. Just what I`ve done and what I`ve seen other repair facilities do. I do not think he is a repair facility. PUT THE STRINGERS in after your hull is straight to the eye. Meaning if it is on 2 cradles and the middle is bowed do not do it. Why not help the guy instead of tryin` to show what you know?
Gotta love those bench racing fags!

Havasu Hangin'

11-20-2002, 01:13 PM

HOSS:
Wrong answer. Floatation? My boat is a Southwind. That is not enough foam to float shit. 8" on either side of floor is hull. This is for noise! How can it act as a sponge if it is sealed? !Hoss...if you look at your keyboard, there is a little button in the middle called "ENTER"...please hit it a couple times when you have a new thought.
Now, I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but I'll let you know why I agree with Old Rigger.
My floor had the seat pedestals, battery boxes, and some dividers screwed to it from the top. On the transom, my swimstep brackets (below the water line) are screwed into the transom below the floor level. I also have my trim tabs screwed into the transom (below the water line) below the floor level.
Now, on my old boat, the swim step brackets started leaking and got water into the floor cavity. I had foam in the floor, and it is a mess just like Old Rigger described. Ever try to get old, wet foam out of a floor?
Instead of foam, if I would have had a couple "hand hole" access plates put in, I could have unscrewed them, and let the floor dry out (or shop-vac)...instead of what I have now...a mess. I also could have through-bolted some things that were just screwed.
The bottom line is that IMHO, water will get into the floor of almost all boats, if you have the boat long enough, unless you don't screw anything into it, or the transom.
My buddy's Eliminator Eagle has the same problem- I'd call it a "Hot Boat"...and it has a soft floor, and it's only a 93.
As for sound deadening, yes my boat is quieter...but just like it is quieter in a tank vs a Ferarri, if you know what I mean.
HOSS:
Gotta love those bench racing fags!We like you...but I'm not sure I'd call it love...

rivercrazy

11-20-2002, 01:28 PM

Well. Now that were talking foam and floors, different manufacturers use different building methods. Some flo coat the floor, some glass & resin the floor. Some foam and some do not. I think I have my answer on foam.
With respect to the floor, I would think glass/resin the floor would be stronger and last longer than flo coating. Glass would add strength and stiffness.
Any thoughts on this?

old rigger

11-20-2002, 01:50 PM

Thanks for setting me straight Hoss, you're the man. I don't know what I was thinking.
Very impresive insight into how they do things in the south.
I'm not surprised you sunk your boat.
The drain holes are in the bulkhead, not the floor. Learn to read. Even if you fill the floor with foam, which you shouldn't, even if you are trying to deaden sound (what sound? the water slapping the bottom of the hull? Get another hobby) there will be water in there. Ever hear of condensation Hoss? That water needs to go some where, and if it's soaked up in that sponge you call insulation, it's gonna rot your wood. Even if you coated it with resin, because unlike what you stated above when you said 'As long as its sealed with resin, it can not rot', it can rot.
I think these guys were talking about blueprinting the bottom before putting the stringers back in. Like you said, this is a site for hot boats, not boats pearched up on 2 cradles and eye balled true. Give me a break, 'straight to the eye'. You crack me up, how much speed you pick up with that eye ball system you got there? God, when I think of all the years I wasted using a straight edge when all I had to do was to eye ball it. Why didn't I think of that hot boat tip?Where were you when I needed you?
'Air entrapment in the hull forward'. What the hell are you talking about? The coast gaurd rules I'm talking about are from the era when, as you said, most of these boats were built, 70's, 80's and 90's, when I built boats. I haven't got a clue as to what the rules are now, although I bet there not a strict as they were back then. The reason your southwind didn't have any foam in the bow is because it snuck under the radar when it was built or some other owner took it out. Tell me, now that you brought it up, just when were the regulations put into effect by the coast gaurd?
I do agree with you about bow tie omega enjoying his boat. I was just trying, like you, to help him do it. It was just advice to be taken or not. Although my advice, unfortuntly, wasn't gained by living down the street from a guy that used to build boats out of balsa wood.
old rigger (bench racing fag)
[ November 20, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: old rigger ]

old rigger

11-20-2002, 02:09 PM

rivercrazy,
You're absoluty right about the glass on the floor. Only some of the shops back in the day, the better ones, did this. Now it's pretty much standard on new west coast boats. We use to just lay down some cloth, about 3 inches wide covering the nail heads holding the floor to the stringers, bond the edges and then resin coat the floor. Later, the jet guys took the clue from the flattie guys and started to cover the floor with 1/2 or 1 oz. of matt, covered with cloth. Much nicer job. But, water still gets under all this. It's the nature of the beast.
You don't see many floors on a boat that has a ski locker built into it, rotting away, that's because the locker door can be opened and that sub floor area is allowed to breath.
Flo coating, when I was talking about it earlier, was in conjunction with the glass and resin that you brought up. The final step being the flo. Although the glue used for the carpet dosen't stick as nicley because of the wax in the flo.

rivercrazy

11-20-2002, 02:21 PM

Thanks OR. Your insights and experience here in the boards continues to be very valuable.
Some Westcoast new boat builders still do not glass the floor. Some just flo coat the floor without glass. Some just give em a thin coat of resin. You just have to make sure you look hard when shopping! :D

old rigger

11-20-2002, 02:48 PM

rivercrazy,
Not having been in too many shops since the mid 90's, (now that my buddy Roger retired and closed shop, I feel like an orphan) I was kinda thinkin' that most of the shops were on the same page when it came to stuff like this. The market is so competetive, I don't see why you wouldn't want to build the best product possible. It's so easy to do it the right way, I don't know why guys cut corners. Let me clarify that before I come off as a know it all, the way I was taught and the way I believe to be the best way. I'm absolutly certain I could learn volumns by watching the guys in a few key shops today, doing their thing. Very nice work being done by them.
come on, spill..who's cuttin' corners?

rivercrazy

11-20-2002, 02:53 PM

I wouldn't want to flame anyone directly. However, some of the names not glassing floors might surprise you.... eek!

HOSS

11-20-2002, 03:22 PM

yeah, i think I`ve heard of condensation. Is that before presipitation. The funny thing is that for something to condensate, there must be water. Even if it is in the form of humidity. Without water, where is the condensation? Seal the floor. My flor can`t possibly be more than 4' by 8, and that`s in a 20` boat. The depth can`t be grater than 5 inches. And as far as bulkheads go, dude, how heavy is your boat? My boat is almost flat. yeah, sound deadening matters! I almost sit on the floor. I do not have cables underneath it or wiring. Largerboats do. But the same principle still applies other than foam. If I have 2` feet of space between floor and hull, hell no will I foam it. Again what type of boat are you referring to? Only glue to use for carpet is made by 3m. It is yellow, can`t rememberr off hand the exact name but it is yellow. Well worth the money. Sticks to anything. In fact its the same color as Gorrilla snot! Wouldn`t doubt if it is. Eye ball, I think you know what I meen. I wish Bow Tie Omega would come back. Would love to hear the elaborate shop he has set up to do this blue printing. I wonder if he has a rack to flip thiws thing and really get the bottom straight. Gee, I wonder if he has the original print to see if this boat was made with a hook from manufacturer? I bet he has a hoist, some thing to wheel this thing around his elaborate shop with probably 6000ft of free space. For some reason I think he is attempting his own repair in his drivway, maybe even front yard and wants to do it in a minimal amount of time due toweather related reasons. because we all know that building a project while competing with mother nature is a loosing battle. My boat sunk from hittng a stump, hard! As far as noise goes try riding in an aluminum flat boat with a little ripple. Or a go fast with some decent horsepower at 45 or greater. Can`t even hear YOURSELF yelling! Ask someone whom builds speed hulls, not offshore, and see what they have under the floor in their family speed hull. Access panels? What the hell would i be accessing in such a tight useless space. A beer can won`t even fit in their. Oh, I get it! Remove panels to drain the water under the floor or let it dry out. But one question? If I don`t have the panels and I don`t have the plugs, how in the hell is the water getting in my sealed floor? What on earth am I condensing. What can it rot, everything is sealed under the floor as well. You must watch Ship Shape on Sundays if it still comes on. These repairs you mention aswell as the NO FOAM deal are great. For a Hatterus ( if that`s correct spelling)! I`ll let you know when the tuna tower goes on my Southind. The boats so low out of the water that we can`t fuel upnor can we bring beer, but I promise to have some access panels for you. maybe you can stow a shrimp in there. LOL hopefully we didn`t scare the guy away when arguing. But at any rate he outa be confused as hell.
Just pressed enter twice.
Gotta love those bench racing fags!

Bow Tie Omega

11-20-2002, 04:08 PM

Hey guys. I did not mean to cause a fight. I just wanted some helpful input, which I greatly appreciate you providing. Yes, I am doing this in the driveway, actually on the side of the house (2 1/2 acres). The area is flat and the boat is centered on the trailer. I took measurements of the stringers in relation to the spaces between each other and used a protractor to measure the angles of the stringers in relation to the hull floor in different areas. I have been using a bubble leveler on a few strings to note any shift when removing the stringers from the boat. It seems to be as true as it was. I can not tell you all what a horrible job was done in installing the last set of stringers. They put these braces in between the stringers in two different spots forward of the engine, without any drain holes, each holding about 2-3 " of water in front of them. This boat has not been in the water since May. The last 2-3 feet of the stringers were not covered with anything. So the water flowed into the fiberglass and actually held the water in between the fiberglass and wood. I took a 2x6 and broke it with my bare hands. Yet the fiberglassing that they did around the 2x6 was 3/8" thick. This overkill actually in my opinion saved structural integrity in the big scheme of things, especially with 600 plus pounds of big block chevy sitting on top of them. But it was a bitch to cut out. I honestly believe that was the hardest part of this project. Anyways, I think that the kild dried hard wood will be the way I go. I will seal the two stringers and cross members with resin, covered with mat and resin them again all before installing them in the boat. Then install them and glass them in. Does this sound good so far?
[ November 20, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Bow Tie Omega ]

Havasu Hangin'

11-20-2002, 04:16 PM

old rigger:
come on, spill..who's cuttin' corners?"H" & "L"

rivercrazy

11-20-2002, 04:21 PM

Well... sounds like you've been out window shopping as well Mr.HH :D
Havasu Hangin':
old rigger:
come on, spill..who's cuttin' corners?"H" & "L"

Havasu Hangin'

11-20-2002, 04:24 PM

rivercrazy:
Well... sounds like you've been out window shopping as well Mr.HH No need to window shop when you have a fine specimen such as the HH Tugboat...where can you go from there?
I have my sources...

old rigger

11-20-2002, 04:56 PM

Hoss, you are the man when it comes to setting up boats!!!!!
'Must be water for something to condensate?'
Wow, you mean like what the boat is floating on?
Almost sit on the floor! Wow again. How cool would that be? And what a rush it must be at those breakneck speeds of 45 or greater! My God, how do you find someone brave enough to ride with you? Hey, do you think if I put in a sub floor on my tuna barge Howard flattie and filled it with foam, it'd make the boat a little quieter? I'm running no where the speeds you are (I'm getting goose bumps just thinking of the magical 45 MPH. What a thrill!) but the more I think about it, I like the idea of adding all that usless foam in my tug. I could cut an opening in the floor and pack fish in it when the days done.
What 'access panels' are you talking about. I'm lost here, again I guess. We're talking about access holes, something you can put your hand
through to do something like tighten a bolt and nut that's holding in your seat or foot throttle or Place diverter control in place. Opps, I forgot, you epoxied everything to the floor. I bet that's a clean set up.
You gotta post some pics of your ride. I'm dyin'to see it.
And I'm guessing by 'original print' you mean the mold the part was pulled from. Rest assured that there was no hook in the original boat, unless the rigger put it in while setting the intake, when it was sold. Even when your Southwind was built by Percivel, there was no hook built into the plug. So if and when you get yourself set up with that high tech system of checking for hook on the bottom of that speedy Southwind, and you see some there, it's not supposed to be. I'd love to hear how you'd fix it. Please, let us know.
FORTY FIVE MILES AN HOUR! Boggles the mind.

rivercrazy

11-20-2002, 05:04 PM

I just about fell off my chair laughing at this thread. OR you are one funny man! LMAO! :D :D :D
BTO. Don't take the flaming personally. Guys just like to have fun!

DansBlown73Nordic

11-20-2002, 05:33 PM

I was reading this earlier. I had to stop....Before I fell on the floor from laughing!!! :D

dankirk

11-20-2002, 05:56 PM

Bow Tie Omega, I have a 1977 23' Mirage, which I believe was built by the same people that build Omega boats. I know exactly what you mean about the stringers, mine were the same way, the tips weren't glassed, and there was alot of rot. I cut out the floor and stringers myself and took the boat to Hurliman boats, in Newcastle, CA. He is a craftsman with wood, and restores alot of older, wooden boats. It was expensive (almost $7,000), but he is very good, and I really trusted his recommendations. He suggested a kiln-dried hard wood (Copaiba) for the stringers, it was imported from South America. Instead of regular resin, which can absorb water, we used West System epoxy for everything ( www.westsystem.com (http://www.westsystem.com) ), this is a plastic epoxy, and will not absorb water. It is also much stronger than resin. It is very expensive, but worth it in my opinion. I asked him about flotation foam, and he advised against it. He said that it will absorb and trap water that may find its way under the floor, and has no real benefits. He has repaired many boats that have had alot of heavy, mildewed foam that led to rot. Even if you have no leaks in your floor, you may accidentally crack the bottom of your boat someday, and it will be a more difficult repair if the area is filled with foam. On the bulkheads between the stringers, he left small openings between the floor and the bottom of the bulkhead so that if any water gets under the floor, it will run under the bulkheads to the rear of the boat and into the bilge when the bow is tipped up. He put drain holes similar to transom drain holes in the bottom of the stringers by the transom, so that if any water got trapped on the other side of the stringers, I could pull the plugs and drain it out. I have never seen any water drain when I pull the plugs. I agree with Old Rigger and Steve Hurliman when they say that the best way to prevent rot in the future is to keep water from resting anywhere in the boat. Leave paths for water to drain out.
I hope that helps, Dan

HOSS

11-20-2002, 06:13 PM

Old Rigger is that a rocking chair you are in? My boat was built with a hook dipshit! And you have a flattie! I have epoxied the aluminum to the floor that foot is alltached to. Seat boxes are glassed. Carpet over everyhthing, and I will post some of my work. I`ve worked on a fewe rigs in my day. And you! I take it you pay someone to do it. With someone who knows as much as you, you`d have to pay someone. it would take a lifetime for you to finish. I`ll design a new rockin chair for you. Would you like it with or without your easy to reach access panets. You know the roundwhite ones with 4 screws to let water leak in. I could do it out of aluminum and feather it with MicroBuble, but in your case, lets go with some bad ass cypress! That`ll last forever, never rot, be heavy as hell and keep your crazy ass in the DAMN CHAIR! Sit down grandpa! You heard the man. He is not in a state of the art shop. Sell business for your buddy who ripped you off somewhere else. Down here in the south we do things I guess differently,,,,,,,,,,,,,than YOU!
Gotta love old bench racing fags too!
Another 2x`s on the enter key!
My apologies old rigger! I didn`t completely UNDERSTAND your post. The kind your boat is floating on. Now you see that is a whole different problem and maybe warranted another thread. Your problem seems to be a hole in the hull not the floor causing the condesation under the floor which in return is rotting your stringers and floor. This could lead to further problems all of which are suseptible to presipitation! Now with that said, why don`t you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bring it to your friends shop for further work and high cost. after he`s gotta make a living too and pay for all that shop space and equipment. Winters on its way and the economy ain`t lookin` well let`s say chipper. Like the wood chips you put the access panels in your flattie to remove. FIX the DAMN HOLES dude. They`re in the hull, that`s the part that sits in the water. But hell, with the high speeds you produce, just pull the plugs and let it drain out. better yet, if`n you can go that fast, remove those access panel covers and sheer vacuum will PULL IT OUT along with wood chips, algae, and other small crustacions dwelling in that swamp.
[ November 20, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: HOSS ]

HOSS

11-20-2002, 06:36 PM

dankirk, no offense please. But bro seven grand is alot of bread. If you got that far you should have tried it your self. Unless you got the money. Believe me it`s always best to pay someone else. And buy new when you can afford it.

dankirk

11-20-2002, 07:31 PM

Here are some pics of the repair from a few years ago...
Here is a shot of the demolition:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Miragerepair17.JPG
Here is one with the floor and stringers gone:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Miragerepair19.JPG
Here is the beer tab that I found embedded in the glass (I wonder what they were doing while they built it???):
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/Miragerepair20beertab.JPG
Here are the new stringers, I had him put in 4 full-length, instead of 2:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/miragerepair24.JPG
The stringers near the motor mounts, they are doubled up here:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/miragerepair271.JPG
The front half of the floor is down:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/miragerepair29.JPG
And, the rear half:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/Jet_Boats/miragerepair30.JPG

dankirk

11-20-2002, 07:43 PM

And Hoss,
I know $7k is alot of cash, but the boat has alot of sentimental value to me. and I didn't have the equipment, facilities, knowledge, or experience to do the job right.
I now have a boat that means more to me that a new one ever could, and it meets my family's needs.
I did re-carpet it and reinstall the interior and motor myself. I shudder to think what it would have cost if I had them do the whole thing... eek!

Havasu Hangin'

11-20-2002, 07:48 PM

dankirk:
I know $7k is alot of cash, but the boat has alot of sentimental value to me. and I didn't have the equipment, facilities, knowledge, or experience to do the job right.Dankirk...you made the right choice.

HOSS

11-20-2002, 07:55 PM

You could have had old rigger coach you through it.
2 more x`s
Dankirk, looks really good and if you and the family are happy.then that`s as good as money in the bank. And it sounds to me as if you are satisfied with the work performed. Let me ask would you recommend this shop? if so you came out good.

dankirk

11-20-2002, 08:04 PM

I would strongly recommend Hurliman's to anyone who is willing to spend money on a quality job and is not in a hurry. Steve is neither cheap nor will he rush, but his work is excellent. You should see some of the wooden ChrisCraft style boats that he builds and repairs.

corlish

11-20-2002, 08:14 PM

Hoss,
While Old Rigger is definitely (as we've seen) able to stand up for himself. It may be wise for you to know who exactly you are so adamantly slammin'. He rigged and built boats for many of the "famous" builders during the "jet boat craze" of the 70's and early 80's. So, yes he has just a little experience with "hot boats". The "friend" that you claim he is peddling business for is Roger Weiman of Rogers Custom Boats. Roger is RETIRED and no longer has a buisness. Not saying that you don't know squat and should bow to the almighty OR, just thought you might want to know that OR is probably not the internet loser living vicariously through a message board that you are implying.
Corey

HOSS

11-20-2002, 08:34 PM

Thanks, your reply is noted. And if he did what you say,,,,, can i blame him for sound deadining floatation foam?
Gotta love those bench racing fags!
2 more x`s

beached1

11-21-2002, 07:33 AM

I'm just a BRF, but I have a couple questions. What f**king good does a strait hull do for you before you remove the floor and stringers? It's skeletal structure in a way? Also, does anyone believe that it (the hull) will remain in the same shape after you rip out the old shit and glass in the new? If so please explain.
I didn't have much exp with boat hulls. So, I decided to buy a junk Omega bow rider for $2,500 bucks and learn as much as I could about all this without getting into too much financial trouble. I wanted to see if I could make it run better with what I knew from my PWC racing exp. This shit isn't Rocket Science. Any BRF with a working brain cell can do all this himself IMO.
Here are some before pics
http://www.beached1.homestead.com/files/Shit_4_stringer_2.jpg
http://www.beached1.homestead.com/files/Shit_4_Stringer.jpg
Omega must have employed only total mental retards because whoever put this thing together isn't fit to toss salads at McDonalds.
With a little advice here and there from OR, this was the design I came up with. I didn't want to replace the old goal post design. I wanted it to be stronger, but I didn't want to change the geometry inside too much or I would have to build new seats etc.
http://www.beached1.homestead.com/files/New_stringers.jpg
http://www.beached1.homestead.com/files/Stringers_in.jpg
http://www.beached1.homestead.com/files/Stringers_transom.jpg
before I glassed in the stringers, I radiused the tops of them to make it a little easier to roll the air bubbles out.
Then after it was all done me, two neighbors and my prgnant wife shoved the hull off of the trailer on my lawn. We flipped it onto 4 old 31" off road tires and trued the bottom. one side had hook and the other had some rocker. An Air File, DA sander, a 6' strait edge and a good sanding block were the tools I used. I used Fibral, a non-talc fiberglass based filler for filling in the low spots. Since it was the bottom of the hull that no one would see, I rented a paint gun from a Auto paint store and shot the bottom myself with regular old dupont auto panit matched to the gelcoat color.
What's cool is the feeling that a Bench Racing Fag like me can run my Omega WOT (It goes a little faster that 45 wink ) with no porpoising what so ever. And I did it all by my Bench Racing Faggot self.
.....then I went and bought a Spectra :)

beached1

11-21-2002, 08:06 AM

I forgot to mention a couple things. It's kinda hard type one handed with my 4mo old daughter in my lap.
Anyway, I used a roofing nail bar, spud shovel and a heavy hammer to dig out the old floor, transom, and stringers. Used a mini grinder with a wire wheel on it to burr out the old stringer glass and roughen up and clean the area b4 glassin in the new.
Although I didn't keep track of the total cost, I would be surprized if it cost me more than 4 or 500 bucks total. The stringer wood was $150 for two 2x10x20 pieces. Three sheets of 3/4" marine plywood at $65 each. I don't remember but the glass wasn't more than a 100/150 bucks or so, give or take. Most of the tools I had myself but if I had to buy them. A cheap air file can be about 50 bucks at Harbor freight. I'd bet a DA sander wouldn't be much more. The sanding block from a auto paint store was 30 bucks if I remember right. Thye cool thing is, you can go at your own pace and buy a few things each week (or month) as you go instead of having to plop down the full amount all at once if you paid a shop to do all this.
Hope this helps,
Your friendly neighborhood BRF

HOSS

11-21-2002, 09:28 AM

Did anyone say it couldn`t be done at home? And you didn`t have a straight hull when you glassed in the stringers? It was bowed very badly huh? And then you glassed them in? Read the whole thread. Would you or old rigger recommend glassing in stringers with the unsupported hull on lets say 4 tires. Where as the tires are not allowing the hull to sit true? Not at least eyeballed? If so, then you are both idiots! What did you use to get rid of the hook, Bondo?
No you are not a bench racing fag, just a fag!
this is really 4 x`s.
Even a bench racing fag like you! No one was talking to you nor was I referring to you. Now remember beached that you called yourself this and CHOSE to jump in this shit.
So it is now my understanding (since we are all gonna read between the lines and take shit outa context) that beached with his Harbor freight equipment and 6` straight edge, 31" tires(4), buddies, and pregnant wife(I`m sure not any more which oughta make you even better at this) is now a pro at hull blueprinting.
(2 x`s) Hell slick, tell me this. Why in the **** do shops and boat yards spend so much ****in` money on equipment and TRAINED personnel to do this shit when they could just hire your dead beet ass to do the job. You have got to be an engineer at a ship yard. If not, let me help. I will get you on. But you better get your shit straight first. Those boys see right through bullshit. Remember, even a bench racing faggot like you can do it.
(2 more x`s) Now, your project came out great. I`m very happy for you. Let`s see if you can give some positive information on this forum. Professional hull blueprinting on (4) four 31" tires. What a ****ing idiot.
The moral to this story is:
A) this was a simple question asked by a novice
B) beached can do hull blueprinting on 31" tires and is a faggot
C) old rigger is a professional from the 60`s and 70`s (which by the way is when manufacturer`s started using foam, so blame him on foam usage)
D) At age 35 I am retired since Nov. 1, but nowfeel like going back to the yard or open up a boat shop. Isn`t the EPA gonna make that hard to do.
Would like to hire you beached but I`m afraid that I will be buying qualaty equipment. I truely feel Harbor Freight tools suck! I would need a hoist. Just for lawsuit reasons, pregnant women are HIGH risk for injury claims so I think that I won`t be hiring any. Would hire old rigger but he would have shop cost and material cost go through the ****in` roof so there would be no profit.And besides you and he would just stand around talking to each other while starring at a hull on the multitude of ways in which to make the repair.
So again, where is the profit?
One last question beached and I promise no more gay bashing from me! Did you put in any access panels? Or perhaps a drain plug or 2? Do you subscribe to Tractor Pull? Old Rigger, I no what you are saying, but here goes anyway! Don`t feel bad beached, he is a subscriber too. And if you look on page 128, bottm left. There is an ad for used 31" and above (for the big jobs) tires.
Can`t even help a guy out, pathetic.
Gotta love those bench racing fags!
[ November 21, 2002, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: HOSS ]

old rigger

11-21-2002, 10:27 AM

Beached 1
you did a great job on setting those stringers. Same way I'd a done it too. I guess were both idiots in the eyes of ol' Hoss here.
Hey Hoss, not that it matters one bit, but I built boats in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. you gotta learn to read before you go shootin your mouth off. Especially when it's obvious you don't have a clue to what you're saying.
And now your bagging on Beached 1's wife? You're a piece of shit. **** off.
Hoss.......
what's a straight as a gators dick and runs for 150 years?
give up?
Your family tree, you back water, backwards, sister marrying, inbreed (retired?)...welfare grabbing hunk of shit.

HOSS

11-21-2002, 10:43 AM

Didn`tknow there were gators in Southern Italy?
How much do you get for welfare?
So you would have used 31" ers as well!
60,70,80,90 mother rue, That`s a long time to not learn a ****in` thing. Another wasted life.
What` s new in Tractor Pull?
And again out of context, I am not saying shit about his wife in particular. Why would you want to bring hs wife into this? I thought he was your buddy.
Beached, in no way do I meen any disrespect to your wife. If it comes off that way, I`m telling you now that I apologize. I am meerly poking fun, not tryin` to downgrade your family!
Now this gator dick thingy. Is a gators dick straight? I`ve seen a few gators but never had the urge to flip them over to see their dick. Can I tell by lookin` at them whether or not its male or female? Am I correct in assuming the dick would be underneath? I don`t want to see but just for shits and giggles, how doyou know so much about a gators dick. Were you a ZOO keeper? Part time of course because full time we know you were a boat builder. I`m just curious and if`n you wish not to reply to a backwoods, inbreed, piece of shit like myself, I would understand.
Gotta love those bench racing fags!
[ November 21, 2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: HOSS ]

HOSS

11-21-2002, 11:14 AM

At first this retired deal was fun, now it is boring. I am returning to college this Spring. I would really like to go to school for turbine engines.I can`t find a school for this. Heck I thought there would be one near me because of all the transports to the rigs. Help me old rigger, I don`t want to be on welfare. How long can I get welfare for? I thought they got rid of it? This ADSL is costing me money.
[ November 21, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: HOSS ]

beached1

11-21-2002, 11:56 AM

HOSS:
No you are not a bench racing fag, just a fag!
ROFLMAO!
I guess all the heteros just filler up with foam and forget it eh?
Seriously bro. I got no harsh things to say to you. You crack me up most of the time.

beached1

11-21-2002, 12:03 PM

Hoss may think this is totally gay but I'd like to add one more suggestion. Shim up the runners on your trailer after the hull is done, but before you drop the engine and seats back in. Try to match them to the hull as much as possible.
Don't worry, no one will think you are gay but Hoss.
:D :D

HOSS

11-21-2002, 01:30 PM

LOL beached! Sometimes I crack myself up. Please old rigger, crack is not to be used in a gay way!
Gotta love those bench racing fags!

RiverDave2

11-21-2002, 01:58 PM

Hoss.......
what's a straight as a gators dick and runs for 150 years?
give up?
Your family tree, you back water, backwards, sister marrying, inbreed (retired?)...welfare grabbing hunk of shit. I was laughin right up until I read that. Now I'm laughin my ass off!
Holy shit that was funny. :D
RD

DansBlown73Nordic

11-21-2002, 02:21 PM

I thought it was pretty FUNNY!!!!!!! :D

Bow Tie Omega

11-21-2002, 02:37 PM

Thanks all for the advice everyone. Dankirk and Beached1 have boats actually very similar to mine as far as boats are concerned. Dankirk had the same stringer setup as mine. While Beached1 seems to have the same boat bottom as mine with those fuel tanks. After seeing the fuel tanks and how they were fiberglassed in I can now see that my boat is original. Omega Boats did a shitty job installing stringers and floors. THe work looks like it was done by a drunk and from the beer tab fiberglassed in on one of the aboves boat, that just confirms my theory. But the hull seems to be bullet proof. I will use a kiln dried hardwood. Do any of you have any opinions on what my last post said about using the resin/mat/resin covering for the stringers and crossmembers before installing them in the boat (in an attempt to try to better seal them). THanks...Joe

beached1

11-21-2002, 02:47 PM

I haven't laughed so hard reading a thread in a while.
Old Rigger, thanks for the vote of confidence and thanks for your advice back while I was working on my project.
Hoss, I forgot to mention one more thing. I only suggested Harbor Freight because there's no reason to buy a 150 dollar air file for example if BTO is only going to do this once. I think I saw a cheap ass one once at HF for around $40 bucks. Use it, then throw it away.
If you are a biscuit steeling butt pirate, then get one at Sears.
:D

HOSS

11-21-2002, 03:20 PM

I know beached, I would too if I wasn`t going to be using it that much. It was all just part of the slam.
RiverDave, you`ve been here all along and haven`t added anything? Shame on you!
I admit ol rigger, that was a damn good one! Mother****er!LOL
Gotta love those bench racing fags!

old rigger

11-21-2002, 03:50 PM

Hoss,
maybe I was a little harsh with the welfare jab.
Hell, maybe you are retired. How ****in' hard could it be to retire in the swamps of Louisiana?
I can see your set up now. Little wood shack up on stilts so's to keep her out of the swamp water. The 'Bayou Bomber' (your Southwind) lashed up to the post that poked the hole in the bottom the last time the levee broke and flooded your property. Wife (sister?) on your arm and a room full of kids (all from the same single-cell gene pool) sittin' on the wood floor watching a looped tape of Deliverance, 24 hours a day. Of course they think they're watching the History Channel or Biography.
Time for a meal? Just step out on the porch and haul up one of your traps and have a mess of crayfish. Mmmmm good eatin'.
Getting a little low on cash? (and who isn't) You and your cross dressing buddies get all dolled up and head on down to Mardi Gras and do what you do best, pick pocket the drunk tourists.
Yes sir, you've put together one fine little life for yourself.
Hey Hoss, I forgot to ask you. When your blistering through the swamps in the 'Bayou Bomber' at that mind numbing 45 MPH, is that in the morning when the boats empty, or can you still pull down those numbers, at the end of the day, when she's full of carp?
[ November 21, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: old rigger ]

rivercrazy

11-21-2002, 03:54 PM

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!! This is the funniest Shiznit I've seen on the boards for "Quite" some time....
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

HOSS

11-21-2002, 05:37 PM

Way ****IN` Cool!
One cell gene pool? Come on dude you can give me more than the likes of blue-green algae!
I swear, you must live near me to guess all that shit about me and be 97% correct. Come on, where ya at!
Ya gotta wonder if`n evolution is right? That`n bee`n sayed, we can`t all come from the same one celled gene pool, Can we?
Riverdave, just ones that put on charitable events? The boards seem to be coming back to life. You can tell winters coming. By the beginning of Spring, half the people will hate one another. What a wonder full cycle.
OOOHHH, gotta go, that str-8 dick gator is back!
[ November 21, 2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: HOSS ]