MY BOAT INSURANCE WITH HEADERS + MORE

[LakesOnly]

Well...
I seem to have squeaked by with an insurance policy on my boat! Please read on...
I currently have thru-transom exhaust and was thinking of installing my headers.
I remembered that when I applied online for my insurance with Progressive, one of the questions in the webpage application was, "do you have over-the-transom exhaust?" I selected, "no." My insurance policy application was accepted.
Today, I decided to inquire with Progressive if my policy would be affected if I removed my thru-transom exhaust and installed over-the-transom exhaust. Their reply: "We would cancel your policy."
I countered, "So if I install pipes to my factory exhaust that exit over the transom, I would be cancelled?"
"Yes."
I continued, "But if my headers go through the transom, is that acceptable?
"Headers?" she asked.
"Well, yes," I replied, "but they will not go over the transom, they will exit through and aft of the transom as your policy is written and requires."
The representative put me on hold and later returned. She then said, "Yes, we will honor your policy based on the fact that you still have thru-transom exhaust and your inboard engine is covered."
HUH? I never saw any question about whether my inboard engine had a hatch!
I explained this to her. She said that the question in the application is, "Do you have over-the-transom exhaust or an exposed inboard engine?"
I told her that I applied online, and that I was currently at the webpage, and the question in the online application was, "do you have over-the-transom exhaust?" There is no inqury about whether or not my inboard engine is exposed.
She put me on hold again--for a long time!
Upon returning, she said the following:
"Sir, you have just pointed out to us that our webpage's online application has an error in it. One question on our watercraft application asks whether the applicant has over-the-transom exhaust or an exposed inboard engine. Apparently, when the webpage application was created, the second half of the question was accidentally ommited. I have sent a note about this to the webmaster and it will be corected."
"So how does this affect me," I asked.
She answered, "I have entered a notation in your account. Even though you have an exposed inboard engine, we will honor our policy with you because you answered our online question satisfactorily as it was written at the time, BUT we will not renew your policy when it explires."
How 'bout that? I think it's cool that they held up their end of the deal.
So I guess just the heads will go on my motor today, and the tunnel ram and (OT) headers will be a winter project for next season when my insurance policy expires.
LO
p.s. By the way, does anybody know where I can get insurance for an 18 ft jet boat with headers?
[ August 04, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: LakesOnly ]

[Rexone]

This is what we've been hearing on insurance with regards to any type of over transom exhaust. The companies are simply not writing it any more because a few individuals as it seems is becoming commonplace in society have burned themselves on the headers, then turned around and sued over their own error. Seems many just can't take responsibility for their own actions (or errors) these days and have to lay the blame on somebody else ($$$$$$$). Who pays and takes the hit? All the rest of us. Anyway, I heard directly from a higher up at Progressive that the average 3rd degree burn from a header lawsuit now costs them 100K to settle. It's pretty obvious why the won't write that risk any longer.
Also, anything anyone mis-represents on an application is grounds for the insurance company to not honor a claim so don't go tellin em you don't have headers if you're planning on adding them to your boat later on. That goes for horsepower too. Many of the companies have limits on that as well.
The word on the street is that none of the major insurance carriers that are common household names will be renewing any existing policies for boats that have over transom exhaust due to all of the above. It's too bad but I anticipate this problem will get worse before it gets better.
Mike @ Rex Marine
www.rexmar.com (http://www.rexmar.com)

[Heatseeker]

Wonderful.

[Kwicherbichen]

That's weird? When I signed up with Progressive a year ago they never asked me any of those questions. I called instead of doing the online application. They did ask me how much horsepower. I told them I didn't know and I really didn't. In fact, I still don't know? When I told them I didn't know they asked how fast the boat was. I told them @55-60 mph? (that's what the previous owner said it did). They said no problem, here's your quote..... I thought is was really inexpensive compared to others.

[Rexone]

Brian, All this stuff is fairly recent...
According to the guy from Progressive, boats under 70 mph fall into a different category of policy type (standard boats vs. performance boats). I guess they figure if the boat's going under 70 it doesn't exceed the horsepower they use to limit the 70+ mph boats. To my knowledge this new 70+ type of policy is due to begin in 2003 (presently they are not writing them). My understanding is that v bottom boats will have a limitation of 90 mph and cats to 100 mph. In both cases though, as well as their standard policies for slower boats, over transom type exhaust is just plain out...won't write it. hp limitations on the new performance policies is going to be 550 I believe, which in itself will eliminate a bunch of boats. This is just what I've been told, passing it on. Also they're going to be offering discounts on policys written on new boats when the buyers take a boater's safety course, implemented by participating manufacturers of boats. The details of all that don't seem to be in stone yet, but that was the direction of the discussion.
In any event insurance in general for performance boats is getting tougher, more expensive, etc. I think we're all in for a pretty radical awakening when policies come up for renewal on faster boats. Boats that go over 100 are likely to become pretty much uninsurable, unless of course you want to spend about 10K a year or more overseas. Lawsuits like the present HTM situation don't help any of us either. If it and others like it are successful and the insurance companies continue to take big dollar hits from these frivilous types of suits, we all end up paying for it, and in some cases, will be unable to get certain types of coverage, not to mention the increased level of restrictions at our lakes and rivers. The whole deal just pisses me off that people have to blame someone else for their errors, lawyers, the whole thing...you've already heard all that elsewhere...whole threads devoted to it, I'll stop now.
Mike @ Rex Marine
www.rexmar.com (http://www.rexmar.com)

[LVjetboy]

I say we boycott all insurance companies until they reconsider their position. Maybe then they'll drop accident prone jet-skiers and insure us hot boaters who've never had an accident and boated for twenty years. Or doesn't that count? I'd like to see the statistics on that one.
I sense something outta wack here. Perhaps a mind-set the skews non-boating insurance thinkers? A boating accident and underwriters ask, what kind of boat was it? Oh ya, one of those speed boats you know...of course! In fact, if we can prove it was a speed boat we won't have to cover. We'll be dropping those soon anyway.
Never mind that some only do 65 and get passed by BASS FISHING BOATS on a regular bases. But we have no problem insuring fishing boats of all types, no questions.
Then there's the jet ski accident (statistically more prevalent?) What kind of jet ski was it? Just your regular type. Oh, well we do insure those so unless we're prepared to drop all jetskis as a group, we'll go ahead and cover. Just jack the premiums some.
Who's with me on this?
jer

[Rexone]

I agree jer,
Insurance companies are out of control to some extent. What the Progressive guy explained to me also was that ALL insurance companies took tremendous losses on 911, the recent Arizona and Colorado fires that consumed hundreds of homes, etc. They are in the pullback mode now, meaning eliminating risky coverages, jacking the costs of others (both apply to boats like ours). Here at Rex Marine we're seeing it in liability insurance too bigtime and I'm sure other businesses are as well. Our cost for the same identical coverage went from 11K in 2002 to 41K this coming year. WTF is that? And that was the best quote out of 7 companies polled. Some wouldn't even write us any more because of the "risky nature" of our stuff. Hang on cause it's gonna get worse, this is just the beginning of the insurance banging everyone is about to take. And its not all from the disasters either. The success of all the frivilous suits getting by juries is a huge factor. Everything from stuff like HTM to the McDonalds hot coffee settlement affects you and I whether we like it or not. It's total bs.
Mike @ Rex Marine
www.rexmar.com (http://www.rexmar.com)

[LVjetboy]

Hi Mike,
I could buy some hikes and limits as insurance company learning curve when speeds go up, frivilous lawsuit driven. But doubt they are blameless. As in trying to recover market losses? Instead of sucking it up like us peons do? Seems a common thread whether boat insurance or baby doctor insurance.
When called on to testify on rate reduction possibility during the last sessions of the Nevada's malpractice crises, all parties present EXCEPT insurance companies...who bowed out early not wanting to make concessions of their own. Always justifying rates based on their "private" statistics, so who can challenge that? The perfect answer every time...they come out smellin' like roses.
BTW, good to see a representative from Rex posting, may be ordering an engine mount soon!
jer
[ August 05, 2002, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[LVjetboy]

Mike,
Looks like we're on the same page...
Cheers!
jer

[Bense468]

Jer would your boat be considered a fishing boat if you had a fold up pole in it at all times. What distinguishes a fishing boat? I know this would probably never work but you never know there are loopholes everywhere you just have to find them.

[LVjetboy]

I actually have "fished" from the boat...for more that hot chickies :) Caught a cat fish once. Had a helluva time cleaning it, finally used vise grips and a hack saw. Ok, not good at that.
But one look at my rig and the insurance gods would say, "fat chance jetboy." Claim denied!
You have a good point though, if we could somehow reclassify our boats, maybe we could insure them for a reasonable premium?
jer

[Rexone]

I agree they're definately recovering some market losses at everyone's expense. One thing about insurance companies, especially those that only insure little niche markets (like perf boats), they can pretty much name their price for coverage to some extent. Jack it up, not much we can do if we want insurance. They lose in one area, they just jack it to everyone else to maintain their profit margin and reserves. If I did that to that mount you're gonna buy because my insurance cost just tripled you'd tell me to stick it up my ass. Wish we had some way to drive that point home to the insurance industry.
I still think the legal system sucks though with regards to all the bs lawsuit settlements being awarded by "jurys of our peers" and there's no question it's also driving insurance costs to the moon.
Thanks for your biz too,
Mike @ Rex Marine
www.rexmar.com (http://www.rexmar.com)

[Bense468]

By the way that reminds me I need to get into Rex tomorrow to see if you guys have my parts. I ordered some pump parts through Tom. He has a pump boat that I would be intrested in. Wish I would of asked him for a ride when we were at blythe.
Oh I know jer I am running the same type of boat.I am through triple A. I got lucky I guess. I don't want it ever to lapse. I have a beismeyer 18 I think you have seen pics. Spinning 5100 with a double AA. Just got the motor in the boat tonight and am hoping for 5300 to 5500 with the new cam and heads. We will seen soon. I think I might either be runnin a CP gullwing or a placecraft next year though.

[Rexone]

Hey jer,
We could make you up some billet fishin rod holders for the sides of that thing...wouldn't that look cool? mount a fish cleanin table on top of the motor, a little bait tank off the side... how could they deny you?
mike

[Rexone]

Tom's jet is definitely a rocket. Sets your eyeballs right in the back seat when he hammers it!

[Bense468]

yeah he wants me to buy it but I think it is a little to extreme for me. If I was full on racing NJBA I would. But then it is almost to clean and perfect for that you know. I would definatly like to own that boat but to have to bring out alcohol all the time would be a pain in the ass. It does burn clean and cool though you can tell by his headers.

[Rexone]

It definatley fast and there's nothing (well, seldom) on the river that would ever touch it, I think it goes about 130+ in what seems like 200 yards. I've never been in anything else that accelerated that hard and I've had some pretty stout boats over the years. Not much of a practical river boat though. Would definitely be nice for a "second boat" toy to take a few blasts in.
Mike

[Bense468]

yeah maybe someday I could afford a second boat like that. Hey are you the owner of Rex? If you are I think you went to high school with my dad and uncle.

[Rexone]

yes, who are they?
Mike

[Bense468]

[ August 05, 2002, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Bense468 ]

[Bense468]

you went to Glendora right?

[Rexone]

yeah I was 71. I know Ed, saw him at the reunion a few months ago (god I'm old)... Don't think I know Greg or Melodie though. Say hi to Ed for me when you see him.

[Bense468]

He is on here he goes by aduner2. I would like to talk to you off the fourm. Did you get my message?

[Rexone]

got it on email. It works. Mike

[Rat Poison]

I had the same problems with insurance for OT equipped Youngblood. Finally found a company that would insure OT's. They have a website and you can get their phone number or apply online.
www.bike-line.com (http://www.bike-line.com)
May hot boats never die!

[jimmmyb]

i to have progressive i got progressive 1-1/2
years ago and like (kwicherbichen)i called them on the phone, the gal that took the info,
only asked me, make - model & hp
and then asked me what replacment value i would put on the boat.