Bowl Detailing

[sidewound]

No, no big info here. Just me looking for some. Has anyone ever done their own? I have been told not to $@#* with it by one person. "Vein angles are critical" I could use any info or pics. Other spots in mine are lots worse. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/114My_boat_012-med.jpg

[Squirtcha?]

Here's what I did with mine. I didn't have a lot of instruction, so I'm not sure what good, if any, it did. He said only work from the backsides of the stator dealies. Mine were like the ones you pictured when I started. They're down to about 1/8" thickness at the end, rather than the 1/4" they were prior. I didn't work the front or inlet side at all, just the outlet. Most of the stuff that I've seen the pros do really looks good. Polished, ya know?
http://jetboat.homestead.com/files/bowlwork1wnt.jpg
[ April 20, 2003, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[Jake W]

I have a some what flowed G Berk bowl and it is detailed just like Dan showed ,mine are just a little sharper good luck .Jake

[sidewound]

Thanks for the pic squirt. :D I think ya did a nice job with the instructions you had. This is a pic a freind of mine sent me of the intake side.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/114bowlexitdetailed-med.JPG
I was just wonderin if anybody had some hard guidelines. I can't find a thread but will keep tryin. :cool: I know some wizard out there has some knowledge to add to this.
Peace Man
CESAR

[HBjet]

sidewound:
of the intake side.Um, I hate to break it to you, but that's not the intake side of a jet bowl!
Here is a photo of my bowl. Intake side and exit side.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20convbowl005-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20convbowl003-med.jpg
HBjet

[sidewound]

Wrong pic,
I'm a dumbass. :D
Shit I hate it when I make a fool of myself while trying to act cool. cry
Got your pics tho didn't I. he he he Thanks!
Peace Man :cool:
CESAR

[Squirtcha?]

That's the kinda thing I was talking about. Jack sure does some spectacular work doesn't he? I don't know if I coulda done that with mine though. If you look at the stators/fins (or whatever) on my bowl you can see that they're recessed around the outside edge. They don't come all the way out even with the edges where Jack did all the blending work.
Hell, I'm not even sure what kind of bowl I have anymore. Took it into a shop about six years ago and the goof mixed up parts between my pump and about five other guy's. I used to have a JB, but that could be a JG bowl?
Anyway, there's your e ticket ride to bowl work. Next time I pull my pump apart, maybe I'll go back to work on that part of it again.
I'll have to admit.........with what little instruction I had, I was scared shipless of screwing it up. I knew I could get the material off. I just wasn't so sure about putting it back on if I made a mistake.
[ April 20, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[Jake W]

Dan that is a converted C bowl to split bowl that Jack did for HBJet.And your bowl looks like a G bowl to me.The way to tell a B and a g apart is a G fins come flush with the end of the bowl as where the B are inset abit.Hear is a pic of my G bowl and my Aggressor bowl togeather.One flowed by MPD (Aggressor) other flowed by HTP (G bowl). http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/82dubbowl.jpg
[ April 20, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Jake W ]

[sidewound]

Cool Jake,
Looks like different and unique work by each shop. If I had an extra bowl I'd be smokin it! he he he. Looks like you got it goin on.
Peace Man
CESAR

[Squirtcha?]

Now I'm confused. Is it the G that has the fins all the way out, or the B?
[ April 21, 2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[LVjetboy]

Dan, here's another MPD massaged 12JG, looks a lot like yours...
Before:
http://users.lvcm.com/lvjetboy/Vanes.gif
After:
http://users.lvcm.com/lvjetboy/VaneMagic.gif
jer

[Squirtcha?]

Hmmmn. I wish mine looked that good. Looks like I could take more material off the stators/blades. That'll be something I can play with this winter when I do my regular maintenance type stuff. Could probably stand to do some handsanding for a smoother finish, and more blending work too. That's great though. Now at least I know what they're supposed to look like.
Thanks for postin that up Jer.
The before pic is exactly how thick my stators were when I started. Forgot how much material I actually took off those things.
MikeC and bp stopped over one night, reached up in the nozzle, looked at each other and started laughing. That's what got me going on it.
[ April 21, 2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Squirtcha? ]

[sidewound]

Big Thanks to you Jer .SWEEEEEEET lookin work. I just am tryin to gather info. Does anyone know anything about the actual procedure or is that somthing the gurus keep a secret? he he he.
NICE LOOKIN BOWL!I got info earlier on the discharge side. Does anyone know if that is the most important side to detail? I'm wondering about detailing the intake side. Practicality, benifits, instructions etc.
GREAT JOB EVERYONE !!!!! keep it comin. I may do it yet.
Peace Man
CESAR

[Jake W]

Dan I thought I made it clear enougf but I guess not.THE G BOWLs FINS COME FLUSH WITH THE END OF THE BOWL.the Bs are set back a bit.I put it in big letters for ya.is that better.Just funning with you a little because I know you can take it.Jake

[Squirtcha?]

Jake W:
Dan I thought I made it clear enougf but I guess not.THE G BOWLs FINS COME FLUSH WITH THE END OF THE BOWL.the Bs are set back a bit.I put it in big letters for ya.is that better. Just funning with you a little because I know you can take it. Jake Take what? Could you please explain your explanation? Be careful Jake. I'm headin up your way in a couple months. Don't make me take a detour!

[ChetCapoli]

hey LV,
when's the BIG DOLLA masterpiece gonna hit the water??? All the money your spendin, it should be done by now dont ya think?? You'd be a top priority on my list for sure. :p BTW, your response to that 13mph gain on the other board being just pumpwork....helps to get the hook out don't ya think?? By the looks of things it had one heck of one. Seems he's got a lite wallet to boot(or one less kidney) just like you. :D
CHET
[ April 21, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: ChetCapoli ]

[LVjetboy]

Chet, we all got two kidneys so what's the problem? Can't take them with you :)
Don't know for sure when the Drag-n's hitting the water but I'm guessing June? The heads were a hold-up, plus me changing my mind on horsepower, up another 75...but when it hits it'll be a winner. Glad you read my response on the other board...shows me you care :)
Sidewound, excellent question. One I'm guessing nobody here knows or has measured yet. My guess is the vane leading edge makes more difference than trailing edges for detail work...and contribution to flow losses. But not sure. That assuming you get the shape right. BTW, both my leading and trailing edges were done like Hbjet's. I just don't have a picture of the inlet side.
And the pictures don't really show the quality of the job from the angle I shot them. I'm pretty critical, but I couldn't believe how nicely blended (and even) they were. But who's to know the "perfect" shape? I just know those stubby trailing edges are a loss to flow. And manufacturers are concerned with machining costs, not necessarily the most efficient pump...
jer

[sidewound]

Hey!
Yoo can call me A__HOLE if you want (the wife does) but I'm gonna keep this up here to try to coax out someone who knows their shit.
I'm guessing the inlet side of the bowl being detailed or flowed is probably more importand than the discharge. The water being smashed into the vanes and forced through the bowl. I'm sure the outlet side is important to achieve proper flow. Anybody got an opinion????
I'm interested in more detailed descriptions as in where to trim, clean, smooth, and so on. Anybody givin away free KNOWLEDGE? It's only nice to share ya know. Thanks everybody who has posted info. It's been educational so far.
Peace Man
CESAR

[MikeC]

sidewound:
Hey!
I'm guessing the inlet side of the bowl being detailed or flowed is probably more importand than the discharge. The water being smashed into the vanes and forced through the bowl.
Peace Man
CESAR I think you are on the right track. But I'm thinking a nicely prepped Impeller, then the inlet side of the bowl would be next in line.

[sidewound]

Thanks Mike,
I had my impeller done at HTP. I'm now looking at the bowl as I wait for parts. Funny thing about parts. Just PLEADING for any info. If not I'll button it up as is. WHEN I get my parts.
Peace Man
CESAR

[TRG]

if you could get a high shine on the exit side of the bowl that would be good,... right? just ba clean flow of water! but on the entrance of it how should that be? coarse or polished? Todd. :confused:

[Jake W]

Sidewound Call me an A-- hole if you want to but detailing the imp and the bowl both are not going to show up on that Sidewinder I say this because I had one.I am not cracking on your boat but you know the decks on thoes thoings are made with a chopper gun (thats bad) it means very heavy lay up and thick and thin spots.now if you plan to move to a diffrent hull one day then get all the ducks in a row now run the sidewinder and change hulls and you will not belive the diffrence.Now you may say A Tahiti is not the best either and you are right.I have bought a Kachina hull and the diffrence is evedent in lay up.The Tahiti did not have full lenght stringers when I got it but it does now and under the deck is plywood.Now the Kachina came with full length stringers and it has that balsa check pattren under the deck much lighter and stronger.When I bought the stuff for my Sidewinder I was thinking Tunnel later but it is later and still no Tunnel.Just a better V bottom.This is off topic but wanted to let you in with my exp with Sidewinders.Cool looking boats but not fast.And flowing a bowl really is a wast unless you race it.Jack Mc told me when I had him flow my bowl that my money would be better spent on an Impeller clean and cut.Jake

[sidewound]

Thanks for your input Jake!!!
I DEFINITLY know my hull is crap as far as an ultra high speed ride, so this is why I've decided to put my hard earned $$$$$$$ into the running gear this year. Project hulls from rocket to cockit are available for CHEAP!!! I am concentrating on the drive this year until I get it right and then will think about a descent hull to put it in. This is just the platform I have to test with now. It may be awhile for the new hull but I'm definitly learning a lot about the jet. My goal is to crack 80. This is my first jet and my first boat. I dig the whole deal. Helpfull critisism always appreciated.
Peace Man
CESAR
P.S. Anybody know any good shit about flowing bowls?

[Jake W]

Glad to see tou have an open mind.Hear is a pic of the other side of the bowls. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/82dbft.jpg

[LVjetboy]

Todd,
Smooth vs. coarse surface finish can be debated 'till the end of time. I'm thinking boundary layer flow is already turbulent at this point and less influenced by surface finish? Can't remember how that goes these days.
More important I think is airfoil leading and trailing edge shape. Form or profile drag a big player. A stock blunt leading edge with sharp transition may cause separation and flow losses. Cheaper to manufacture, but not very efficient. The fat stubby trailing edges may cause vortices and cavitation...more losses. My guess is these losses way overshadow the important of surface finish.
Trick is, what's the best profile? You can wait a long time for someone to post who appears to "know their shit" or is "giving away free knowledge"
The fact is, much of pump "technology", if you could call it that (best blade and vane airfoil shapes, etc.) is still buried in the relms of black magic, trial and error, and racing anecdotes...not true technology.
So at this point no books, manuals or technical information on what's best. No easy "this shape is best" answers. Just word-of-mouth and lots of opinion. Now you have mine.
jer

[sidewound]

Thanks LV

[pops1]

LVjetboy:
Todd,
trial and error, and racing anecdotes...not true technology.
jer FLOW IS THE KEY! Thats why the Big Dogs Port & Polish and or Extrude everything!.
Sharp edges release water -less disturbing- sharp edges allow a quicker release (Less Neg.Drag-or Vacumn- same with a transom 90 degree's less suction- quicker release.- Why do people only detail the non-working side of a vane- That one has always got me!(MMMMMMM It sure looks good)
If you have a good Eye- between the posts here you will see what is happening in you own photo's with the water at release of the bowl. Old to New & on the front side again I seen Old to New.
I will give you a clue on Bowl Entree- Thrust is greater than!
On Exit- Straight is better than!
Not tyring to make a game but maybe someone will see it! I did- but im a old fart and my mind see's what it wants sometimes- have a good one & Races this week @ Ming- Not going "Owe too many People Impellers" and I have no ass left. see Ya POPs(Dave Aggressor)

[Squirtcha?]

Hey Pops. I'm not really old, but getting up there. I'm also really, really bad at riddles, but let me take a stab at it. Work both sides of the bowl, inlet and outlet?

[sidewound]

Wow, this is awesome!
I think info is in here to be had! :D COOL!!!
Squirtcha, my hats off to you for havin the nads to dig into your own!
LV Jetboy, I agree, voodoo and black magic seem to come into play here. I knew that when I started the thread. Lotsa people make a livin doin this and you can't give away the evening meal.
Toddnjuz, all the pics so far don't show any real smoothing on the inlet side. Just a lot of cutting down the vane to a congruent sharp edge. My berk manual says that it's important that all leading edges be the same distance from the impeller. (Thanks Old Guy) It also offers some procedures for improving the flow.
Mike C your right about the impeller too.Duane did mine and for a darn good price. Trued, indexed and set the veign angles.
Jake W. Your honesty is BRUTAL. I LIKE THAT. P.S. I like the purpley thing too! :D
POPS 1, YOU ROCK! "FLOW IS THE KEY" I'm now trying to imagine myself as a liquid molecule and what I would want to see. Thanks.
NO DISRUPTION! I'm looking between posts but I think I need glasses.
"Thrust is greater than" Can't figure that one.
"Straight is better than" spinning the water out, which the bowl looks like it does on the outlet. I'm beginning to see a dim light. THANKS
To everyona a HUGE THANKS for your pics and input. This is a great place to learn. :D
Peace Man
CESAR

[sidewound]

OOPs Forgot.
HB jet, thanks for settin me straight on the inny outy thing. That's a beauty you got there!
Peace Man
CESAR

[Cas]

I had this thread bookmarked and thought I'd bring it back to the top....lots of pretty good info on it.

[eek-a-RAT]

i cant see no pix?

[Cas]

it's a 3 yr old thread so some of the pics no longer work. In order to see them, you need to copy the address into your browser and look at them that way.